Infiniti recently got into the in-house tuning game, by rolling out the Infiniti Performance Line as an answer to Lexus’s F line, Audi’s S line, BMW’s M line and Mercedes’ AMG-tuned hot rods. Nissan’s luxury brand may have been a bit late to the profit-puffing game of performance sub-branding, but better late than never, right? Maybe not. Now that Renault/Nissan and Daimler have hooked up to share engines and architectures, it seems that the alliance is considering making AMG power available to Nissan’s luxury brand. Citing “sources in Japan,” Autocar reports that
Infiniti’s hot models could carry ‘Powered by AMG’ badges as part of Nissan’s recent tie-up with the Daimler group…
One powerplant on the shortlist is Mercedes’ forthcoming turbocharged 3.5-litre V6. It would replace Nissan’s venerable 3.7-litre unit in Infiniti’s G range and could be tweaked to produce up to 400bhp.
Sources say the IPL version of the M, Infiniti’s 5-series rival, could end up using AMG’s 6.2-litre V8 — and be priced north of £60,000. That would allow the M IPL to undercut the E63 AMG but rival Jaguar’s XFR on price.
But will the exclusivity of Affalterbach-tuned Mercedes models be hurt by sharing engines with Infinitis? Would the damage be the same if Infinitis got the engines but not the badges? After all, the VQ V6 is hardly exclusive to the G Series, and a switch to a Mercedes engine could impact on everything from the Nissan Z to the Infiniti FX35… unless the Infiniti is willing to alter the IPL-spec G37 to be the only Mercedes-powered G. In short, the challenges of what Infinitis to offer with AMG engines are nearly as great as the challenges Mercedes will have to face by losing the exclusivity of its AMG engines. After all, it’s one thing to sell AMG engines to a supercar firm like Pagani, but an upstart Japanese luxury brand doesn’t offer the same brand-halo benefits. Should Daimler let this happen, or should the AMG badge and engines stay exclusive to tuned Mercedes models?
What I can’t understand is the point, given that 370Z already exists. Perhaps they mean to hot-rod their biggest and baddest, instead of G (They do have one bigger than M, right? Stupid lettering conventions!).
Besides diluting AMG exclusivity, one of the big selling points of Jap luxury cars to me is they don’t come with German reliability and upkeep.
I suppose that doesn’t matter much for the buyer that counts – the one leasing something else in 36 months.
That’s what I was thinking. An Infinity with all the reliability of a Mercedes. It doesn’t make much sense.
The twin-turbo V6 is a strange choice, seeing as Nissan already has a twin-turbo V6 in the GT-R which is already on a similar platform to the FM-based G37. I’m curious as to why the GT-R engine isn’t an option here. As for the V8, it makes sense for Nissan, seeing as they don’t have much in the way of V8 experience, but for Daimler, Ed’s point about exclusivity remains. It makes much more sense for them to put their V12s into Astons as rumor had it a while ago. If anything, with Infiniti trying to move upmarket, it doesn’t make sense for Daimler to be enabling a competitor.
+1: Nissan already has a TT V6 so why bother outsourcing to Daimler? It also has a 5.6L V8 which could be tuned beyond its current power output so I don’t see the synergy here. For Daimler its nothing but AMG brand dilution by associating with Nissan’s wannabe luxury brand.
Ummm, Nissan has been making V8 engines since 1965. Granted, that’s not as long as some, but I don’t think I’d call that “don’t have much in the way of V8 experience”.
Definitely, especially since everything about the new engines looks like they will be overcomplicated and underperforming. The V6 will also be significantly less powerful than the GT-R engine which is also hand built.
Daimler shouldn’t do this. As much as I like Infiniti (which is, eh, a decent bit, I guess), I still look at them–and Acura and Lexus–as just a marketing exercise in avoiding tariffs. They’re almost like vaporware brands primarily for the image conscious US market. That immediately undermines their brand prestige, IMO, and makes all of them unworthy of bearing the name of a decades-old in-house tuning shop for Mercedes.
In short, it just rubs me the wrong way.
is call digging its own grave.
more folks to compete.
i am sure infiniti can come up with their high powered vee 8.
the HP race is a bit out of date.
If the question is: “Should Daimler let this happen?” Then the answer is: “NO”.
I have owned the current gen G35/37 and my family and I have had some sort of Nissan in the driveway since 1992, and as much as I think it would even further the luxury value the Infiniti brand has its not a good idea.
The VQ series has been a Ward’s 10 best engine forever. They’re reliable, easy to work on, have been / are in almost every Nissan vehicle, and have been around for decades.
I left MB for an Infiniti. So I could get more car for my money AND so I could do my own maintainence.
Its a win for Infiniti and a loss for MB from a marketing perspective. It may even be a loss for Infiniti with reliability.
Deal breaker!
If I had wanted an unreliable, high maintenance German engine in my car I would have bought an unreliable, high maintenance German car, instead I bought an Infiniti.
To take issue, in eleven years our C43 has needed only routine maintenance, and tires. This is still a bad idea.
needed only routine maintenance
Define “routine maintenance”.
Oil changes and “checks” which we have done ourselves for the last five years. About two years ago we did belts, hoses, fluids, and some minor things for $1200.00.It is all about the price of admission.
I have spent more on sails.
This is a bad idea for everyone. Nissan makes better engines than Daimler. Cheaper, stronger, cleaner ones too. AMG is seriously diluting the brand name by appearing in Nissans. Just dumb.
Am I the only one who thinks Daimler and Nissan are a terrible match? I fail to see why Infiniti needs Mercedes when they already have a lauded V6, a decent V8, and a competent RWD platform. As far as AMG-engined cars, I think the GT-R proves that Nissan can handle a performance line on their own.
If anyone needs luxury car expertise, it’s Honda. Basing the next RL on the E would make sense, as would the consolidation of Acura’s SUVs on Mercedes’ competent and flexible ML/GL platform. Mercedes would in return get access to Honda’s stellar VTEC four-bangers and proven FWD platforms for use in their own A/B-class compacts.
Then again, what do I know.
I have to concur – I have had no issues and only routine maintenance with my Audi and BMW cars. I know truedelta shows German cars to be a little less reliable than their Japanese counterparts but it is a small difference (ie <<1 fault per year difference).
weird right? with all the bad comments on german reliability on here you would think most of us germans would have to visit the shop every two weeks just to see their car.
anyway, infiniti just wouldn’t be good for the AMG brand.
My VWs (Audi underpinnings for bonus complexity!) have been about as reliable as I’d expect any car to be. Sure, there’s the occasional interior light flicker or random, minor CEL, but I still contend that I’ll match a well-maintained, enthusiast owned German car against any appliance-like, non-enthusiast Japanese car on cost of ownership and frequency of repairs.
Some of the design/engineering flaws have soured me on the brand because some repairs take too long and cost too much, but in the overall scheme of daily life, the difference is so minimal as to not be worth worrying about. If I’d owned a Honda Accord, would I really be patting myself on the back for saving $1,000 over 10 years? Probably not.
I’m calling shenanigans.
The M156 engine is a divine gift from the heavens. I don’t think that Nissan could really build a superior motor. Hell, I don’t think Daimler can build a superior engine.
Considering that most of the AMGs are switching over to the “M157” 5.5L biturbo V8, it wouldn’t really “dilute” the Mercs for someone to use to old engine.
All things considered, I’d like to see Infiniti (or anyone) keep the M156 alive.
Double brand suicide. Mercedes/AMG engines in a Japanese car equals diluted Mercedes/AMG brand, and Infinitis with German reliability…
I sense a whole ‘lot of “epic fail” here.
They wouldn’t share powertrains or virtually anything else with Chrysler, an automaker they wholly owned, yet they would do so with an automaker they have a partnership with?
It doesn’t make any sense.
Daimler did share stuff with Chrysler. At the start anyway. They even got to use an AMG-tuned engine for awhile.
Then I guess they decided that destroying ChryslerCo would be fun.
They can make money selling products and services to Renault-Nissan, while giving Chrysler anything just meant, given Daimler’s cost problems and Chrysler’s market segment, that they’d lose more.
Chrysler only got bits from Daimler when it was either fully amortized or really cheap. Eg, the Crossfire.
Before AMG was brought in-house by Mercedes, they did offer their tuning services on the open market. One example is the JDM only AMG tuned Mitsubishi Galant VR4 (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-AMG-Tuned-Galant/A_2709/article.html). I know it is akin to Bill Murray or Woody Allen doing TV commercials in Japan only, but this horse got out of the barn a long time ago.
Is a turbo V6 producing “up to” 400hp really an upgrade to a naturally aspirated V6 producing 330hp? I may be a bit of a turbo hater, but at that level of power, I’d take the NA.
As far as I can tell, the AMG formula mainly consists of sticking the largest S-Class engine one can find into a smaller bodied Benz (C, E, CLK, SLK) or just throwing forced induction onto a large existing Mercedes engine.
Infiniti can most likely do this in-house without having to pay the licensing fees to Mercedes for the AMG name and engines. The 5.6 liter V8 under the hood of a G Coupe would be an interesting swap, especially if a manual gearbox was available.
That having been said, Mercedes engines are pretty reliable units. It’s the electronics in the Mercedes bodies that surround them that usually disappoint with horrible reliability (unlike VW, which has equal opportunity for having mechanical and electrical problems).