About 5% of the population buys a car out of love. The rest are just balancing the checkbook. Maybe I’m nuts for writing this since cars are seen as an embodiment of freedom in many cultures. But even with the halo of “freedom,” true hardcore auto enthusiasts are still a very small portion of the entire population. Consider how many people would own a car if they didn’t need one? Ever?
How many commuters actually go on those Sunday drives to the mountains or to the racetrack? Would the general public willingly pay $20k for a Camry, or even $25k for an MX-5 if they didn’t need wheels to get around? The answer for most folks would be a firm ‘No’ because as the great philosopher Yogi Berra often said, ‘Money is money.”
We all have a budget that tethers us to the reality of car ownership. Taxes, insurance, maintenance, depreciation and debt are the unwanted barnacles that come with a set of keys. In the past most buyers would cast a cursory glance at these numbers after figuring out the cash price or monthly payment. But now…
The numbers can’t cover up the limited pursestrings. That first number, 10, seems to be a glass ceiling. Buyers that want to buy a new cash car, but don’t have the greenbacks, often use the 10k mark as the barometer for a near-new car. Buy a one year old Camry? They want to spend up to 10k. Two year old Camry? 10k. Three year old Camry? OK, 10k. But it better have leather and a roof. Never mind that the sub-prime buyers are willing to pay well over 15 to finance one just like it.
20? The car obviously needs to last 20 years of course! No costly maintenance either. The oil should be changed on whim these days and the transmission… isn’t it supposed to be a lifetime fluid? You would be surprised how many buyers expect cars to have minimal maintenance costs even though they beat on their cars mercilessly. Nothing makes me cringe more at the auctions than a once beautiful car that cost megabucks when new all tore up and cheaped out by it’s negligent owner. A late model luxury brand maintained with the budget of a toaster. I see a lot of leased vehicles like that at the auctions.
30? Any car that is bought must get at least 30 miles per gallon. Even if it’s done once, it has to be achieved and noted for all to hear. It can be a Forester that found itself tumbling down a mountain. Or a Caravan that caught a tailwind that was more than likely the hand of God. Sajeev’s Lincoln? Well I’m sure it hit 25, or 27, or maybe even 30 when the engine was cut out on a long downward hill. Ok, I’m exaggerating a bit. Nothing Sajeev drives gets anywhere near 30 mpg. But 6 months from now if gas spikes to the $4 mark or beyond, everybody’s mother is going to want to either brag about their family barge, or bag it. If it creeps towards $5, you will likely see a sequel to Cash for Clunkers. You heard it here first.
This article is spot on. And, it is why most people that don’t live within several states of Michigan prefer Toyota and Honda.
The Detroit makers are trying to jack up their prices by claiming their vehicles offer real value, but I do not see many people falling for that marketing spin. Ford seems to think a cell phone in the dashboard, which they named Sync, will get the masses to overpay for a vehicle that ranks below Toyota and Honda brand quality. Not the case.
Detroit, get your act together. Offer cars with low prices and Toyota like reliability.
“Ford seems to think a cell phone in the dashboard, which they named Sync, will get the masses to overpay for a vehicle that ranks below Toyota and Honda brand quality.” [citation needed]
You may not be aware of this, since you may not get wifi / 3g reception under the bridge: Toyota has issued several recalls in the last year for their “Toyota like reliability”. And recalls to those recalls.
protomech, I trust Consumer Reports reliability over the bogus Toyota recall launched on behalf of the UAW by our government. Anyone with a 3rd grade education has already figured this out.
“I trust Consumer Reports”
There’s your first problem, right there.
Really…The UAW launched a Toyota recall? Wow!…I’ve never heard that one before. I always knew I should of stuck it out past grade three.
mikey. Lets see. The UAW donates massive millions to democrats. The democrats win the election. The democrats are strong supporters of the UAW. Toyota is a big threat to the UAW. The democrats launch a Toyota recall that turns out to be questionable. What is so hard to figure about this?
The parasites will always claim they are not parasites…They don’t feel like men unless they do.
Let’s take the tin-foil hats off and look at the facts.
One, Toyota did have a recall and yes, it was their fault for not informing regulators as per their obligations. You’ll note that’s all that the goverment attempted and succeeded in doing.
Two, Toyota’s cars are still at or near the top of every objective quality ranking out there. So no, there’s no substance to the “massive decline in quality, if they ever were that good in the first place” nonsense.
Three, the government did go into kangaroo-court mode, but this has everything to do with trying to look proactive and make a little political hay than any kind of UAW/Democrat/Illuminati/Bilderberg nonsense. Politicians do this kind of thing all the time, and you can bet that whomever is in power would have ridden the SUA show as far as it would take them.
(side note: I really wish TTAC wouldn’t ignore ordered and unordered lists in messages…)
psarhjinian, lets see.
How about we recall every car in the US and force the dealer to saw inches off the gas pedal because there is a possibility the owner might stack multiple floor mats, with one of them being an all weather mat. That is not what happened. Instead, the Democratically controlled government decided this is only an issue for Toyota.
Then, there is about 1 dozen warranty claims on gas pedal mechanisms on tens of millions of Toyotas. I would bet every major manufacturer has at least that many warranty claims on their gas pedals. But, only Toyota gets the smear, and the fine.
Sorry, America is smarter than this.
Since you like Consumer Reports, let’s see what they say.
(Note: I like CR too, don’t hold them as gospel but they generally do a good job)
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/who-makes-the-best-cars/overview/index.htm
“Consumer Reports has suspended its recommendations of those models [affected by sticking gas pedals], which caused Toyota’s percentage of recommended vehicles to drop by almost half. Still, Toyota models are usually very reliable and get good safety Ratings, and we continue to recommend many of them.”
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/02/2010-consumer-reports-automaker-report-cards.html
“Honda continues to make many of the best all-around vehicles. Overall, its Honda and Acura models, are the most reliable vehicles in CR’s predicted-reliability ratings. The most recent models from Honda, however, have not shown the same dedication to interior quality and fuel economy that earlier models did. ”
“[R]eliability of some Ford models now rivals their competitors from Honda and Toyota. But in CR’s testing, Ford vehicles were not always among the best performers.”
“New models from GM now rank among the best in CR’s testing, although overall reliability, even among some of the new models, still lags behind most of the competition.”
In other words, Honda and Toyota are dealing with some quality issues, and newer Ford and GM models are in many cases competitive with the Japanese automakers (in quality and reliability). Chrysler still has a lot of issues, but there are some promising signs that new models may be higher quality.
In other other words, people that hold irrational biases (in either direction) will continue to hold them.
jj99
+1! We had the pedal on our 05 Avalon changed over to the Denso model just to be able to say we had it done. The software update, in my opinion, was the real benefit. The car drives EXACTLY the same as it did with the CTS pedal, although the Denso model is shorter, and does have a nob at the bottom to help prevent pedal entrapment. I believe LaHood perpetuated this recall in an attempt to give Detroit a leg up on the competition, and to try and boost the value of government motors. The majority of Americans saw right through his his ploy.
protomech, nice job of picking sentences out of context to support your story.
However, last month Consumer Reports did a reliability ranking of brands. Ford was in 10th place. All Toyota and Honda brands ranked better than Ford, as did Infinity and Subaru. Lincoln was worse at 15h. Chevrolet, 17th. Buick, 18th. Caddillac 19th. Jeep 20th. I cound continue, but you get the idea.
One is best served avoid Detroit car brands, as they can do no better than 10th place in the latest Consumer Reports reliability ranking.
Pardon me, Mac. But how is it possible that Lincoln ranks below Ford if under the skin they’re almost the same and even built at the same assembly line?
Make sure to have your Geo Metros ready for Ebay when gas clears $4.00.
It’s already been mothballed!
Is the truck in the photo a late 90’s Chevy Tahoeburban?
As one of those 5% who still buys his vehicles based on love, I don’t understand any of this.
“About 5% of the population buys a car out of love. The rest are just balancing the checkbook.”
Sure takes the romance out of it. Reminds me of when you wrote that just about any make and model of car these days will meet our transportation needs. Worse, you were talking about used cars — even second-hand rides will all get the job done.
Conclusion: we’re individually and collectively delusional.
Mr.Lang..
Always right (90%), always sensible, always honest.
Much appreciated.
Agreed. Easily one of my favorite columns on TTAC.
I just came back from trying to help a couple i know to buy a car. And ‘we’ bought it. And I must say, what a relief it must be in some ways to not be ‘interested’ in cars. I spend a good few minutes avery day scanning the net for old cars for sale (well, Norwegian car prices has me looking at 10 years or older cars, and dreaming about taking a loan buying a 20k car) And every day I find a lot of interesting cars that I read about, then I scan the net for info on the specific model and trying to find reasons to buy or not to buy it. And this is when I’m not even in the market for another car. When I’m actually considering getting a new car to replace my daily driver, or project, or one of the ‘parts cars’ I’m a lot worse. I can’t even sleep properly.
Well, back to this couple. Their previous car commited suicide by spilling all it’s fluids into it’s own combustion, and thereby loosing compression forever, so they needed a new car. Not being very fond of birth control they needed something big, preferably minivan or a van. So, they got a loan from his mother, and found a 15 year old 5-seater VW Caravelle for around 4k on the net on Sunday, and today we went to look at it, with me as a ‘specialist’ in old used cars. We looked at it, found no rust or large oil leaks and it started ran steered and braked, so they bought it. I sure hope I helped them do the right thing, but I’m going to sleep badly for a few night now.
How can anyone buy such an expensive car just out of necessity?
I’ll stay firmly on the love side. (Now where’s that picture from senior year of me with my Dad’s 1967 Mustang convertible? Or polishing his Oldsmobile before prom, or with my first car on the first day of senior year of high school? They got to be around here somewhere.)
Likely impossible to ascertain but I am curious what minute percentage of vehicle buyers are akin to me who base at least part of their buying decision as to how appropriate a particular vehicle would be if required to dwell within it due to negative economic conditions.
Opted for a long-bed pick-up with a light-weight low-cost aluminum camper shell/topper (terms for that device vary across the USA with other possible regional variances) in case I was ever again forced out of a traditional dwelling place and use my vehicle as an abode to avoid abject homelessness.
To avoid/evade the jack-booted thug type enforcement arm of the USA ruling elites opted for a pick-up to hopefully avoid in-conveyance-living obviousness.
With hind sight I realize a full-size Chevy/GMC/Ford van may have been preferable but the price for the pick-up was lower enough to nudge me in that direction (along with easier access for repair and maintenance).
If economic conditions within the USA remain basically the same OR worsen I wonder/ponder if an increasing number of folks may view their vehicle as an abode or realize the future possibility of it becoming one?
That’s why my Ram is set up with the equipment it has right now. High top “Shell” auxilliary rear heater piped into the cooling system, auxilliary electric heaters and extension cords to match. Basically a quasi RV setup with my camping gear included.
My two dogs and I lived in it for 3 months last year (Chicago in winter) until I started my new job and secured housing.
Unfortunately it was never planned to be that way..
@ Birddog, I worked outside for several months at Wisconsin steel on the south side of Chicago about 30 years ago. It was about the coldest I have ever been. You sir are all man. I am sorry that it came to this for you, and I am glad you are doing better now. This country better wise up soon, or we may all have to suffer through your experience.
Driving where most of the new car money in this country is amounts to staring at three lanes of brake lights in front of you forever. It’s hard to get enthusiastic about that. No surprise that most new cars aren’t involving, you don’t want to get involved in that.
I’ve always found it ironic that most of the Infinitis and BMWs of the country live in that grid lock between cubicle and the mortgage. While the beautiful open roads in the rest of the country are trafficked by 3rd owner appliances because that’s all the economy there will support.
It just occurred to me that the reason my 12 year old truck still has its original brake light bulbs is that I live out in the country where there aren’t any traffic jams.
If it creeps towards $5, you will likely see a sequel to Cash for Clunkers.
Reading that sentence almost made me puke. I despise our government.
Is it time to reorganize the German General Staff of yore? They had every possible scenario planned out and ready to go depending on the particular situation that arose! Col. Klink would approve! Schultz would still pretend to know nothing!
If gas hits $5.00/gal, cash for clunkers won’t do a hill of beans any good – I think we’d better consider obbop’s advice, as so many of us will be in the barrel and lack any type of income. My Impala’s back seats fold down, so I think I can sleep in it if I must.
I wonder what percentage of the population leases cars for image? Cars as trophy wife instead of soulmate. Brands like BMW and Land Rover seem to attract many customers more concerned with image than the legitimate performance advantages available from these brands. The BMW gets driven between stoplights and valet stands on straight city streets and the Land Rover never experiences dirt.
Due to finances, my love affair went from car to motorcycle. They can hit that 10/20/30 quite easily and in general cost less to insure & maintain. Don’t get me wrong, I still love cars & research them endlessly, I just know that I won’t be getting one to fall in love with in the next 10 years (we have yet to spit out our first kid & I’m 35…)
It’s much easier to convince my wife to let me spend $5k on a 5 year old litrebike than $30-$40k on a 5 year old carrera.
Well, maybe at the end of the market where you sell, Steven, but not everywhere. And maybe not “love” but something more than “appliance.”
Of course people buy cars (and trucks) for image, just like they buy clothes or jewelry for image. It’s a way of identifying yourself with a group that you want to signal you’re a part of.
When my 26-year old daughter took a job with a independent film company in Santa Monica (at very less than movie star wages) and had to buy a car (for the previous 3 years, she had been working in NYC), she said , “Dad, I can’t show up at meetings in a Nisan Versa, or a Chevy Cobalt.” Which I understood.
So, we shopped very hard and got her a Lexus RX-300 (it was her money, BTW, not mine), and I cross my fingers that it will live up to its reputation for reliability. We had all of the service records, etc. It was a one-owner car with relatively low miles for its age.
There is much truth in this article, but there are other factors at work as well. I have helped many friends and family members who don’t know much about cars when the time comes for a purchase, in addition to at service and repair times. Even if people don’t know about cars, or even why they might want to know about cars, many of them have strong opinions about what model of car they want. In my experience, many dealers assume that shoppers are in love with whatever car they are discussing purchase terms on. I’m a car fanatic, but I don’t respond to overtures about whether or not this is the exact car I want. Either it is a new car, in which case I know I can get the same thing elsewhere with a minimum of effort, or it is a used car that I assess just as I would a business case. Do the benefits outweight the cost? If not, what is the car’s real value?
I remember shopping for a used car in college. I had a budget, a summer of experience on a car dealer’s lot, and stong opinions about what I wanted. Being in rural Virginia at the time, I wasn’t drowning in choices. A 16-valve GTi on steel wheels seemed like a good possibility for replacing my Jetta that a gf had wrecked. A test drive showed that Pennsylvania Golfs were not as good as Wolfsburg Jettas at the moment in history. It rattled, features in Jetta were dummy plugs in the GTi, and the hatchback unibody was Kleenex compared to the Jetta’s rigid shell. Still, there weren’t many nicely priced ‘German’ cars in Blacksburg or Christiansburg Virginia in 1991. At the salesman’s desk, he wanted me to give him a deposit check to show I was serious about my offer. I knew that game from my time working for a systems house stealership. I also knew that what I was offering was in the ballpark of what the car was worth in a bigger market, but less than their joke price by quite a bit. I asked if he thought my offer had a chance, and he insisted that it did. So I told him that I would put the offer in writing and that he could call me any time he was ready to sell the car for it. He said, “If this isn’t the right car for you, then it doesn’t matter what the price is.” I told him it was the right car for what I was offering, and he should call me if they could sell it for my offer. He never called, of course. They had no interest in my offer, even though that car was still sitting in front of that Ford Dealer when I graduated from Virginia Tech two years later. I wound up buying a one-owner, dealer maintained, non-smoker, 35,000 mile Audi 4000CS quattro from the Charlottesville BMW-Porsche-Audi dealer for $1,100 less than I offered for the 60,000 mile GTi. It had an audiophile sound system too. None of the cars I bought during those years was I willing to overpay for. I wasn’t ‘in love’ with them, but many salesmen tried banking on the idea that I should be irrationally in love with them. It must work with some people, probably the ones who buy crummy cars.
I vividly remember when I bought my first and only new car and the salesdroid asked me if I wanted to say “goodbye” to the 10 year old Mustang I was turning in. As if! I looked at him like he had grown two heads suddenly. The only reason I had kept that POS was because I could afford to replace it. It was a relief to get rid of that %$@$!!!. Man, what a dumbass he was.
I used to really enjoy Mr. Lang’s articles but lately they’re just depressing. The car as a utilitarian appliance–just like a toaster oven that gets dirtier and dirtier and won’t be replaced until it dies. How exciting!
Cars are usually not a utilitarian appliance. Even the most appliance like vehicles have virtues that go beyond their daily ‘popping’.
But most car buying decisions are indeed struggles between what you ‘should’ buy, what you ‘want’ to buy, and what you ‘can’ buy.
Throw in a lot of deception. A dab of unrealistic expectations, and you wind up with millions of people who are breaking their wallets for no good reason.
If folks learned how to maintain a car…
http://topics.npr.org/article/053U7Ok1Ia2oq?q=Black+Friday
We would be in a far better financial situation. Well that and basic math skills… and the Bill of Rights… and…
I would think that the numbers 1 – 3 – 5 would be more common with the public: 1 year when the novelty of owning a new car wears out, 3 years of upside-down payments that will be wrapped into your new car loan, and 5 years before your car is officially ancient and the Joneses are laughing at you.
ok, i’ll bite. volvo tells me i don’t need to change my transmission fluid unless i use the car for towing. am i doing something wrong by not changing it?
Do they also tell you in writing that they’re offering you a lifetime warranty on your transmission? Thought so. So, change the fluid until they do.
Volvo’s tranny fluid has the exact same specs as Toyota IV transmission fluid… which is not a lifetime fluid.
Buy a Mityvac and pump out about 5 quarts every 30k or 2 years. I see a LOT of Volvos with bad transmissions at the auctions. You also can use the ‘Gibbbons method’ to revive one that simply has dirty fluid.
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12169
thanks for the replies. i live in an apartment tower and being a shade tree mechanic in manhattan isn’t practical. i will have the fluid changed at my next service which should be at about 69k miles.
Considering I bought my 02 Camry (with 40K) for a smidge under 10G cash…I expect to get rid of it when it turns 20 years old and it gets bout 30MPG on the highway.
I think I hit the 10/20/30 lotto last summer. ’05 Scion xB with 22k. Paid a shade over 10 grand. At 22,000 miles, I expect at least 100k more before big trouble, and it gets 34 mpg.