TTAC Commentator TrailerTrash writes:
It’s coming. My next car has been determined to be a hatch AND a stick. And here is the problem…my wife does not want a stick again. The Ozark hills require a little room for error at hill stopping. She has promised to consider one, IF it has the clutch feel that is not as brutal as out last (Cherokee).I have narrowed it down to a few cars. My choices show the need for speed…
Audi A3: Like the diesel and AWD.
VW GTI: But not a real fan of its profile.
Upcoming Ford Focus with 2.0 EcoBoost?
Nissan Juke?
Impreza WRX: Not really happy with the cost, but love the AWD.
Mazdaspeed3: everybody says poor things about the stick movement.Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback: Haven’t driven one but would like some comments on it.
Do any standard trans come with hill assist? Now I know nobody has yet to really give the coming Focus EcoBoost a hard test, but maybe this is something we should hold tight on until it is given the workout.
Steve Answers:
You won’t be able to read your wife’s mind. A hard clutch can be an enormous pain and in the end, she has to see the next vehicle as a pleasurable ride. With that in mind…
Subaru models have the road holding abilities and the hill stopping you so desire along with a light stick. But I would definitely not opt for a WRX if future maintenance costs are your concern. A Legacy, Forester, or Impreza model will offer a six-speed along with the AWD. If she likes the feel of the Subaru stick, the choice at that point will come down to shape and interior accommodations. All of the Subarus are perfectly fine vehicles.
The Mini Cooper is another consideration. On areas of the country with smooth roads a Mini with a stick will give a far nicer driving experience than any of the Subarus. I always tell folks it’s the best BMW you can buy for the money. But if the roads are rough, forget it. The Ozarks are a pretty wide territory so I would suggest test driving a few used ones with substantial mileage on them to see if you would enjoy this car down the road.
Sajeev Answers:
How do you define a mostly subjective aspect of a vehicle? I doubt we can come to a definitive definition of an easy to use gearbox. While the last Saab 9-3 I drove had a horribly vague and rubbery shifter, I’m sure someone will tell me this vehicle has the best action they’ve ever felt. So just give up, or let your wife do all the shopping.
I see the middle ground: DSG and TDI. Sure, it’s in a trouble prone, super costly VW. Yes, VW dealerships are hated for reasons all and sundry. But a slightly-used Jetta TDI with a DSG is a fun little oil burning rocket. I suspect both you and your wife will love it. At least until the factory extended warranty (that you must purchase) runs out. After all, who needs excess time and money when you can have a sweet shifting DSG with Diesel torque and impressive economy?
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
Your choices is missing the greatest smaller vehicle, the Honda Civic SI. Plus, a new one is just around the corner. Don’t be a victim of Ford, VW, or Audi. Do this right. Get the Honda.
The author specifically said he wants a hatchback. Unfortunately, that leaves out the Civic, otherwise I would completely agree. Honda has what might be the best stickshifts around. There’s still the Fit Sport to consider.
Did Honda finally fix the grinding 3rd gear problem with the Civic Si six-speed? It was a problem that started in the ’06 and later models…
There’s a TSB out for the 3rd gear issue, I think. From forum reports, dealerships will replace the 3rd gear syncro’s if they can consistently reproduce a noticeable issue. It’s a hit or miss thing. My own car dosn’t exhibit the issue under normal driving. I only notice a minor issue when the transmission is cold, or if I attempt to shift extremely fast, or if I don’t get the clutch pedal all the way to the floor, or some combination of all those. At times it feels notchy, at times it shifts to 3rd as smooth as butter. It’s not bothersome in the slightest. (07 si sedan, 20k miles)
I think the issue has been a little overblown by kids expecting their cars to be something they aren’t. It’s not a ferarri. It’s a civic (with mild sporting pretensions). Drive it like the economy car (with mild sporting pretensions) that it is, have fun with it now and then, but don’t expect flawless performance if you thrash it constantly.
If she’s gonna be the primary driver, then she’s got to do the test driving and liking. If when it comes down to it she doesn’t want a stick, then she doesn’t want a stick. One thing you could do is call ahead to the dealers and see if they have both stick and auto versions of the cars under consideration for her to test drive. That way she can do back to back comparisons.
exactly. Save yourself a lot of headache and give the lady what she wants.
You’re done my friend. Get an automatic – one with a manual option – heck our Kia sportage has that. In my experience, if you do not get an automatic, not only will you never hear the end of it, you will probably have a worse time of it next purchase. Sounds to me like you need to get her a car, and then get yours. Maybe a second job? Good luck!
Two rules in life:
#1 — make the wife happy
#2 — see #1
I’ve always driven stick shift cars and probably always will (no spousal unit). New auto/manuals are getting pretty good. My test is put it in flappy paddle mode and see if it will hold a gear to red-line and will it not down shift unless I ask it. If it passes this test, I can live with it.
It will be easier to live with an auto manual transmission and a happy wife than a manual and pissed off wife.
That’s funny! And so true (the two rules in life). (no spousal unit here, either.)
Unlike you, twotone, a paddle wouldn’t do it for me. I love the grace and the feel of shifting with a lever and a clutch.
As for TrailerTrash, to answer your question well, we need to know: is this one car for the both of you? Or do you have two cars, and if so, whose car is this? If its yours, I say, get what you want, and then give her a lesson on it, where you find a low traffic hill and do nothing but hill starts for half an hour. And then again next week. And again the week after taht. And treat her to something she loves after each lesson. This will give her confidence in her ability to handle hlil starts.
If this is the one car for both of you, you can try this approach, but you probably need to give her an equal role in the choice.
As a die-hard stick driver, I still would not saddle my wife with a manual if she didn’t want it (fortunately she loves manuals). Look for an auto with paddles perhaps, one that you can shift yourself and will hold the gear… it still can be fun. Just make sure it has more gears than 4. A 4-speed auto just sucks, even if you can choose gears yourself.
Buy a Jetta TDI with the manual transmission. I purchased mine 2 years ago and love the engine and 6 speed. My wife has a Volvo C30 automatic and loves it but when we go on vacation she will drive the hell out of the TDI. Light clutch and a sweet 6 speed not to mention 42 MPG at 80 MPH. When it comes time for her to drive my 91 Cabriolet she turns me down flat. That car has the most heavy clutch i have ever owned. I used to drive the cabriolet to work in Manhattan before i retired and my leg would be tight by the time i got home. Always remember keep the little women happy or you will be very sorry.
Just a couple thoughts: If you’re talking USA market, you can’t the get the A3 TDI with a stick OR AWD, let alone both. So that one’s crossed of your list twice.
I believe all Subaru manual trannies now come standard with a hillholder start-assist clutch. As do Minis. Both will hold the brake for you when you’re stopped on a hill and let your foot off the brake to get to the gas. Great feature. I’d vouch for the WRX – or even the premium Imprez hatch if money is a concern. It still has 170+ hp from its 2.5 and it’s a nice drive, without the ticket-me-now buldges that the WRX and STI now share.
Solution: Replace wife with internet porn. Get the car YOU want. You’ll save lots of money, and be a lot happier.
That’s certainly a new low for the Best and Brightest.
And yet, that’s almost a compliment to your collective talents.
You forgot lapdancers. Wait, that’s one of the deer pulling Santa’s sleigh. I mean lap dancers.
You might be able to get the Lancer with a double clutch.
Simple. Buy her what she likes. Hopefully you will like it (mostly) as well. Then buy yourself a fun car. To keep things affordable, buy used. If you are wiling to buy something cool that happens to depreciate quickly you can get yourself a nice ride for minimal coin. Giving up a feature like a manual will mean that you never really will bond with the car. The modern compromise-manu-automatics really don’t cut it. A “shift” without a clutch is like TV without audio.
But a slightly-used Jetta TDI with a DSG is a fun little oil burning rocket.
Can you please post a link to a listing for one of these fabled “slightly-used” vehicles selling at a significant discount to the post rebate and incentive price you’ll actually pay for a new car?
Price isn’t a huge issue for the OP…especially if he’s considering the Audi A3. So, yes, he can have a new one. But…
I like the older Jetta TDI FAR more than the new one. The reasons have everything to do with content and nothing with price.
He wants a hatch, thus his new Jetta TDI will be the old TDI, as a Jetta Wagon. Which is still on the A5 platform. Perfect choice.
I’ll be the one who says that his Saab 9-3 SportCombi with 6spd stick has perfectly adequate shift feel for a FWD car. And considering you can get one new for ~$24K after incentives, should definitely be on the list. They are a long way from being a BMW, but the price is a long way short of BMW money too. Betta than any of the Jettas, certainly, despite the lack of derv-burning goodness.
I’ll also chime in with lose the wife if necessary. Don’t really see the attraction of THAT particular contractual commitment.
Why not a new Golf diesel?
I’m pretty sure the 2011 manual GTI’s are coming with hill hold….
The TDI A3’s are all automatics and FWD only.
What’s the deal with that…?
Using my (failing) high school German I see on the Audi.de website car configuator that an A3 mit 6sp manual, TDI with AWD is technically available – just not imported to North America. Too bad for us.
From your list, I like the Juke the most, but the one I drove had the CVT.
I say wait for the Focus (and maybe Alfa Romeo) before deciding anything.
I’m plumping for the WRX: These are so fast and fun that auto -or not – you’ll be a happy man.
They ride on rails and are faster than any sane person will ever drive. Manual is best (as with most turbos) but, well – test drive one – it’s the least you can do.
The problem with the WRX auto is that it is a slushbox instead of a Doppelkupplungsgetriebe, as zie Germans say.
True – and manual is the way to go – but it can be shifted manually and there’s power to spare (waste) . Just a wonderful car.
And the beauty part of the turbo is that if you shift early it feels like an econo car – the wife may never know what you are doing.
The Mazdaspeed 3 or the WRX cars are great choices. Don’t forget, the WRX is still available with an automatic if the wife isn’t a fan of a stick shift. Also, if the OP is interested in a wagon and can live with an automatic, Acura has a TSX wagon coming out that’ll be around the price of an Audi A3.
I’d avoid all of the German cars listed above unless the original poster doesn’t care to keep one outside of warranty coverage. The VW/Audi products listed have major issues with their DSG gearboxes (search a VW forum for “DSG mechatronics failure” or check out the link below) and the TDI models of said have major issues with their high-pressure fuel pumps failing at relatively low mileage (under 10,000 miles). Getting stranded by a new car under warranty is a pain in the rear. Avoid.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4465016-DSG-Mechatronic-Failure-Update
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=273983
I’ll also take the contrarian position on the Saab 9-3, assuming you have a dealer within reasonable reach. Check the SaabUSA site to see what the 9-3 offers. Check the Edmunds site to see what people are paying for it. Go for a test drive if you can. Then let your missus make up her mind. Now is a great time to pay due respect to the familiar nominees, but to also check out other — maybe better — alternatives.
It’s too bad it must be a hatch. The newest Civic Si has the best feeling shifter and clutch I’ve ever used. That being said if you don’t mind going used the RSX-S feels about the same, it just lacks a limited slip differential.
I haven’t driven a GTI but I’ve driven a newer golf, the clutch action felt pretty good.
I think a Golf TDI may be a good option. I haven’t driven one of the new 2.0 TDI VWs but I drove a 1.9; clutch was easy to use it’s hard to stall as it makes a reasonable amount of torque, but it didn’t feel particularly fast (as my friend who let me drive it pointed out, I was going much faster than I had thought).
One option that doesn’t look like it was mentioned: what about a 3 series BMW wagon? Sure the shifter isn’t perfect, but the clutch doesn’t feel too light or too heavy and the takeup is pretty progressive. I don’t know exactly what they cost but I imagine it’s not too much more than an A3 if you don’t mind a model without all of the fancy “extras”.
Of course there is always the option to do what the others have suggested and buy your wife a car she wants, then buy a car you want when you can afford it.
Clutch action in the GTI is very light and ideal, IMO, for someone who can easily get annoyed driving a clutch. With my Subarus and my wife’s MINI, the heavy clutch could get annoying in traffic. My old GTI was brilliant in comparison. Really smooth, easy, and enjoyable manual transmission.
I test drove a used (base model) Mini and absolutely hated the clutch on it, it wasn’t heavy so much as the catching point on the clutch was vague and abrupt. I had driven our (gone now) Mk2 Golf to that dealership and the difference in the way the clutch action was so large that I had stalled that Mini more than I’ve stalled any car since I was 16. I also didn’t like that interior pieces came off in my hand, how gutless the Mini felt for such a small car or that big center speedometer. I haven’t ever used the handbrake trick personally, but I taught it to my wife when I was teaching her stick shift and she had become nervous to the point of tears on a moderate incline with cars behind her.
If I could find a clean Mk2 GTI I’d want it. The clutch action on that Golf was excellent and it was pretty fun to flog such a light car that made less than 100hp.
If you say the GTI has a nice clutch I think the Golf TDI/GTI/A3 may be OP’s best bet.
Did Subaru bring the hill holder back w/ the most recent WRXs? My old 1993 Impreza L had one.
Oh yeah, the parking brake trick with the GTI is a breeze for starting on steep hills. You fill the car starting to pull and just drop the parking brake. No rollback, no problems.
If you like the styling of the Juke, and that is open to interpretation it could be a nice compromise. Turbo, stick and AWD. A shame Nissan does not offer this combo in a Versa or Sentra. Otherwise a Saab 9-3 could be a good deal. I see leftover 2010’s priced in the mid-20K’s Not a hatch but the seats fold down.
Can’t get the Puke…er Juke with AWD and the MT.
WRX 5 door hatchback. Subaru has hill assist as the brakes remain applied for several seconds to prevent rollback and once forward progress is established they disengage. My wife drives a 2008 WRX sedan and loves it (5 speed manual).
Clutch action makes a big difference! A super hard, clunky clutch pedal will make driving a manual a chore, and a light pedal with forgiving engagement will make driving much more pleasurable than any automatics at a very slight cost of extra effort. A pleasurable extra effort at that.
So yes, have you and the wife test drive many cars, as clutch engagement varies greatly between cars. Find one that you like and enjoy the many wonderful drive in the future. Forget about the automatics! Even with paddle shifters and stuff, it ain’t the same. Haven’t driven DSGs yet, but they’re so prone to failure while most manual trannies are practically bulletproof. Why choose one over the other?
As for mountains, a light clutch and proper hand brake oughtta make it a breeze, none of that “push again to release” pedal stuff (unless you have three legs)! Electronic parking brake might be OK though.) That is unless you have to regularly deal with stop and go traffic on said uphills. Then you might have to go for an automatic…
Mazda smoothed out the clutch on the 2011 Speed 3. With or without the tech package, it’s the best bang for the buck of any of these cars, at least new.
My wife would much rather drive my A3 than her Accord. And its DSG is the first tranny EVER that makes us both happy. Holds a surprising amount of gear too.
’09s and ’10s should be pretty trouble-free (I’m at 45k kms with nothing but oil changes) and I sometimes see year or two old examples at bargain prices (at non-Audi lots).
Hatch and a full and true manual transmission? Only four cars, all Euro of course, in the N.A. market that would be on my radar:
Saab 9-3 SportCombi/maybe 9-3X (not sure it comes with stick)
VW GTI/Audi A3
MINI Cooper (non S if you want a reliable car)
Volvo C30
Fun choices, all. Good times.
Of course there is the Fiesta, Mazda3, Elantra wagon, and Kia Forte hatch as well. Last of the PT Cruisers out there?
Simple solution. Just say, “Hon, go out and buy yourself a car.” Then say no more.
Next, allow her to live with and enjoy what she chooses, with no judgments or snarky comments when it’s not all she hoped it would be. As others have said, it’s her primary vehicle. Let her choose it.
The ultimate payoff comes when it’s time to replace your vehicle, because you’ve set the stage for affording yourself the same courtesy. It’s worked for me for years.
best comment so far.
My wife lusts for the Volvo C30, its the perfect non-Mini choice – hatchback, functional Swedish interior, 5 cylinder turbo, rarely seen on US roads and sharp looking. The downside: its expensive for what you get, and impossible to find on the used market since Volvo sells about 3 of these a month it seems.
Shame Honda no longer makes the Civic Hatch, because Honda’s clutches are the best around without a doubt. Anyway teach your wife how to really drive stick and she never go back… atleast mine hasn’t. I understand the hill thing, but get her in the habit of using the hand parking brake and it shouldn’t be a problem.
BMW E91 (3er wagon) has hill holder that works great. I recommend RWD over AWD but they are almost impossible to find with a stick.
I have an Audi hatch [a 2000 TT], but for my wife I recommended the WRX wagon [a 2002, to replace her ’94 Saab 900 Turbo], all the cars hatches with manuals.
We have had each of the cars for about a decade, and while I generally like my Audi, my wife just loves her WRX. The WRX has remained trouble free at over 100,000 miles, while the TT has required occasional work, though nothing I consider excessive for a ten year old car. If we had to have only one car, the A3 would be a good compromise, but if your wife likes the WRX, why not just get her one? I know that my wife has her eyes on a new WRX, when the time comes that she needs to replace this one. Me, I’ll probably stick with Audi, as style is more important to me than it is to my wife.
And for what it’s worth, my wife had no trouble getting to work on Monday, with a foot of snow on the ground in Philadelphia. [I am off this week, but I have never had any problems in the snow in the Audi, either.]
Picking a wife who drives a stick [and lets me buy whatever car I want] – that’s that key to happiness!