Chuck writes:
I have been an avid reader of TTAC for roughly a year and a half, and I love this site! I really like the advice articles. I have come into an automotive dilemma concerning a inherited 2004 Honda Civic VP.
My mother recently passed away, so i inherited her Honda. I need to sell the Civic as quickly as possible for as much as possible. There is a issue though- The front bumper is damaged, I put the car into KBB for value assessment and KBB in “Fair” condition says the Honda is worth $7,000 I would like to get as close to 5K as possible. Our friendly neighborhood watch has given me a notice with a $44.00 fine to remove the car that doesn’t have plates from the driveway ASAP!
Here are some details about the car. It’s a 2004 Honda Civic Value Package. Just under 58,000 miles, two owners: my mom and I. The A/C works, it has a CD player but the rear speakers cut in and out. The front bumper damage was caused by “bottoming out” on a dirt road that my mom used to travel on in the FL countryside. The Bumper and radiator support seem most effected. The car does drive straight and doesn’t leak fluids. I have been driving the car since Feb of this year while I fixed up my 1998 BMW 323i Coupe, I had no issues with the car using it everyday. I replaced the battery, and air filters. The Civic has good tires and new front brakes. I cannot to the repair work myself, I don’t have the time to fix the front end myself, I work Full-Time and I go to school Full-Time. I guess my question is what would be the quickest way to get the car out of the driveway while getting the a close to 5k as possible.
Sajeev answers:
I’m sorry for your loss. Much like the last Piston Slap, there’s no easy way to sell a car for the amount you’d prefer, and not because of a personal connection to a loved one. Unlike what we last saw, the smart move this time is to dump your money pit BMW and keep a fairly reliable and value conscious Honda Civic. (Sorry, couldn’t resist channeling my inner Steve Lang.)
So anyway, an average Civic needing cosmetic re-conditioning can sell for $5000-ish at a private party sale. Which is somewhat meaningless, especially with your time crunch. So here’s my best advice: clean the car up (even under the hood and trunk), take a lot of pictures (host them remotely) and place it on craigslist. Mention the good and bads about the car and be honest but succinct. Ask for $6k obo, CASH, and say Motivated Seller. You will deal with a lot of trashy people, but someone will come up with something over $4000 cash and it will be worth the short-term hell.
Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry.
How about, register the car with minimum insurance, throw a plate on it. Now you avoid the $44 nanny fee, and buy yourself some time to figure out what you want to do. The cost to register for a year may be a lot less than the hit you take trying to sell a car in a hurry.
A plate in FL is $200 plus the car tax, about $250. It’s the Disney tax for locals.
In Minnesota that stuff transfers with the car, so if I’m selling it I can charge more with that done. It’s not like your buyer is not going to realize that by buying your car he’s going to be out of pocket for that anyway. So you can legitately roll the registration into the price. Selling an unregistered car is a hassle you’re putting on your buyer — something you want to avoid it you want to get the best price. When I sold my Accord on Craigslist, a lot of the callers asked about the registration status. I actually think part of that was because it’s tough to register a car if are an undocumented guest of our country or if you have no insurance, so recently reregistered cars may fetch a premium among certain common Craigslist types. Finally your buyer might want to test drive it without breaking the law.
The no hassle alternative is to sell it off to a dealer for about 2/3 what it’s worth.
@Omnifan: There was a similar thing in Georgia when I lived there. We called it the Yankee tax.
Here’s a question: would anyone have honestly cared if there were some kind of plates on it? Because, if you like, I have an unused Northwest Territories plate you could have.
Go for the NWT plates! By the time the sort of officious idiot who issues tickets for unlicensed vehicles in your own driveway figures out such a place even exists or where it is, you should have plenty of time to find a buyer willing to pay a decent price.
Better yet, having dealt with the government of NWT, I can assure you that by the time they respond to a question from your local authorities as to the validity of the plate you’ll have forgotten you ever even had the Honda in the first place.
Plus the’re the coolest looking plates in North America!
Yeah, um, remote hosting a bunch of huge pics in a craigslist ad is a good way to get the ad flagged off. And arguably violates the site’s terms.
Learn something new everyday.
Throw a car cover on it and tell the nosy neighbouthood watch to keep their hands off! Or put some old expired plates on it from another state, and back the car realy close to your house so that it’s really hard to see the expired tags. That should give you some more time to deal with it.
My advice is to get some new neighbours. Cripes! It’s not missing body panels or up on blocks!
Or put it in the garage… you know, that big giant unheated and un-air-conditioned room you probably keep all your junk in??
I live in FL too, and it still amazes me how many people dont use thier garage for cars.
Why no tag? If your state is like mine, it’s illegal to operate a car without a tag. Maybe you didn’t bother to transfer registration? If so, you might not be considered the legal owner. Or maybe there’s no insurance? Also illegal, and you can’t tag the car until you have proof of insurance. Here, anyone who buys a car that lacks a current tag will have to pay the penalties to bring it into compliance. So a wise buyer shies away from such deals.
And I’m siding with your neighbors. You are breaking the community rules, and I suspect that’s been the case for months. Live up to your responsibilities.
Oh jeesh lighten up! The guys mom died and you put that crap on him?? Its not like that here in FL. You can transfer a gift car title without registering it, it only costs like $30 to put the title in his name. Registering it can cost about $500 if he has to buy a new tag. If he is not keeping the car, then why buy a tag? Tags stay with the owner, not the car. He can drive it with his mom’s old tag and its legal. He can insure it without having it tagged in his name. But honestly, sounds like he owns one tag and had it on that car, then transferred it to his BMW when it got finished. Now he wants to sell the Honda, nothing illegal about any of it.
And… you may be a crotchety old man, but the homeowners association is filled with people like you who have nothing better to do all day than bitch and moan and enforce rules that dont help anyone or anything. Its a 2004 Honda in nice shape parked in a driveway… who cares if its tagged or not?? It isnt blocking traffic, its not an eyesore, its not wrecked. If it was a 75 rusted out Buick on blocks, I could understand.
Get a life…
50merc is right. I can understand needing a couple weeks to straighten everything out, but rules is rules. As a former crotchety 20-something treasurer of a HOA, I know from personal experience that unregistered cars usually indicate trouble brewing. Illegal activities, money troubles, girlfriend/boyfriend drama, no tags usually means chaos is brewing. One way to nip it in the bud is to remove or rectify the source of drama, I.e remove the car.
And I’m not saying it just because we had an old Explorer without tags come back one night with bullet holes and a cratered windshield where the driver had run someone down. There were also the stolen cars, cars used for drug deals, and cars that wouldn’t pass NJ state saefty or health inspections.
Sounds like you lived in a crappy neighborhood then. You can see from the pics he has a nice place, and the car is nice. Its not cars without tags that are waiting to be sold… its crappy junk cars that are the “signs of trouble brewing”. This is where you use that thing called Common Sense to figure out the troublemakers from the decent guys. And people who are likely to join up and run for office of a homeowners association are usually the type who lack in that skill.
+1 Michael
To the neighbors:
Shove a stick in. Now break it off.
Pay attention to your own goddamn lawn. Stay the f*** off mine.
End of libertarian rant. Amen.
Your ignorant slacker-minded comment about being on an HOA board aside, if you’re unwilling to abide by HOA rules, don’t live in an HOA. Defending the rule breakers encourages additional rule breaking. As far neighborhoods, Google 08205 median income and decide for yourself the ‘crappiness’.
As far as tagless cars, if I can keep my vehicles up to date, why can’t others. It simply isn’t that hard to put a tag on a car and register it. Either that or garage it away from the street. If that’s a hard task, I’d hate to see easy ones.
Mr. LaManna, thank you for educating me about Florida vehicle registration laws and your low boiling point. I have to confess my boiling point has been lowered by the innumerable scofflaws in my state who drive unregistered and uninsured vehicles. There is now a thriving “Title 42” industry to serve those who buy a car without a valid title. Ironically, the Title 42 statute was written to allow garages and banks with liens against cars to get salable titles, not to facilitate sales by illegal aliens and lawsuit-proof indigents. (In case there’s any doubt, I am NOT suggesting the Piston Slap correspondent falls in either category.)
As a person who spent years helping people comply with the byzantine tax laws, I like to see the t’s crossed. Apparently, so does Florida’s DMV. It says:
“Gift Transfers
Whether you’re giving the car to a family member or a stranger off the street, the procedure is the same. There is no sales tax on gift transfers.
Fill out a bill of sale as proof that this was a gift.
On the back of the title, have the owner fill out the odometer reading. Where it says sales price, write “gift.”
Both of you sign and date the title.
Take your insurance card or a Florida insurance affidavit in to a tax collector’s office.
Pay the fees.
Take your ID and register your car, too.
Inheriting a Vehicle
Inheriting property can be a complicated business. It would be best to contact a probate attorney for advice.
Locate the title.
Get a copy of the death certificate and the will that states the car is left to you. If you’re the only heir, then the car may go to you even with no will.
Go to the tax collector’s office. Bring your ID and proof of insurance.
Fill out the title application form.
Show proof of insurance or fill out a a Florida insurance affidavit.
Pay the appropriate fees.
You may also have to re-register the car right away.
Don’t forget to make sure the car has adequate insurance.”
Another reason why I will never live in a “Boca Del Vista Phase V” ever, no matter what state I’m in. I can understand a wreck, but a presentable car? Please. My father in Florida tells me about this crap all the time. He can keep it.
Funny thing is that here in his home state, in his HOA driveway sits my 19 year old station car, replete with a Thule rack system on the roof. I figure that while he is in condo heaven in Florida, I might as well lighten the load in my driveway. The car is plated, dent/rust free and the paint is fine, but it is old. My my there goes the HOA neighborhood!!
I googled the ZIP code in question and saw that it’s on the Jersey Shore. Does Snooki hang out there?
It’s funny how the nosiest busybodies and nitpickers in HOAs and neighborhood watch are the usually the loudest bloviators about “freedom” and “low taxes” while they dish out petty fines for unplated cars or an unapproved shade of house paint.
Plexus is the miracle glue for plastics. If the bumper and radiator support issues are a result of couple of cracks in there that can be clamped with one or series of clamps (Home Depot $25 for a pack), you may be able to fix that problem. Speakers – look at the grounding wires back there. The hood does not look latched through, hopefully not from the bumper issues.
Good luck!
Quick question, when said fine is assessed would it be $44 per day for however long the car sits or $44 period. If the later then this is my suggestion. Pay the fine, keep the car and tell the neighborhood mow your lawn people to fork off. Then decide if you want to keep it or find somebody in the family who might need it.
He needs to sell it to pay for the work done on his money pit beemer. Sajeev’s inner Steve Lang had it right. Somebody working full time and going to school full time is in no position to own a MPB. Sell that and keep the Civic.
How long does the $44 fine buy you? Is it $44 a day, or $44 a month? If it is $44 a month, then pay the fine and sell the car at your leisure. It doesn’t sound like you’re menacing enough. I had a housemate in La Jolla who threatened to break a revenazi’s legs and the guy stopped chalking our tires in front of the house. It was justified fury because he was marking our cars to make sure we moved them every 48 hours while a neighbor up the street had a Rolls Royce with no engine parked in the street for at least 2 years.
Put in on Craigslist and pay the $44 fine to the neighborhood. If you register it and pay minimum insurance you’ll pay hundreds just to sell it.
I got an idea. If you have a driveway. Back the car into it up against your house / complex so that anyone who can view the back plate has to trespass where you can lodge a complaint against them. This only works if it is your property and if the state does not require a front plate too.
Cobwebs and underflated tires are a sure sign that a car isn’t being used and not just parked in the same spot everyday. You may keep the car clean but do you clean the film from the windows or rinse the driveway/street underneath it? I’m a pro at keeping my ‘derelict cars’ from being detected. I’ll even Armorall(TM) the tires and trim. Neighbors really don’t care if you store cars in your driveway as much as they detest eyesores.
I am with morbo on this, I was president of our HOA for 3 years (never again).
We tended to be fairly relaxed on enforcement, we never worried much about temporary situations, but occasionally a vehicle would take “root” in our development.
In my experience the residents who claim to do as they wish with “their” property are the same ones who complain about the guy over the street with the RV/ Boat parked on his lawn when it comes time to sell their house.
Most of this stuff is corrected with 30/ 60 day warnings, which is plenty of time sell a good car like a Civic even with some minor blemishes.
If you don’t want to live in a neighborhood with covenants that’s your right, their are plenty of options out there.
And…
“Terminal” Beater? Really? That hard up for a quick pun? Go join the neighbors.
And take morbo with you. Given his experience, he can instruct you in proper use of the stick.
Hello Everyone, this Piston Slap is about my Honda. I have cleaned the car and kept it clean. I also had AAA towthe car to my Indy who gave me a $1300 repair est. stating what the car needs, and the invoice seems reasonable. I have listed the car on Craigslist and have recently recieved offers of$2500 or below-plus the usual tire kickers, andlow ballers. I really wanted some insite pertaining to my askingprice, to low/high? I have cleaned the car reallygood top to bottom, andfixed the speakers. The Fine is $44 per week.I was able to slide by with an expired NH tag for a week. My nieghbors are not the ones complaining I know and asked themallafter the notice if the car was a problem. Its just the community watch doing there routine drive-bys,with their lawn measuring sticks and such. The fine seems silly as a man the next road over has a huge motor home blocking two/thirds the road for six months or so a yearwhen they comedown here to visit,
@ Michael Lamanna- The garage is full we have two golf carts(we live in “The Villages” look it up its a crazy place and a golf cart community.) My uncle has a “project” saab 900 TC that never endsin the garage currently. I wasableto afford to store the BMW while I saved for the parts perviously.
@50 Merc- I did transfer the tag (My tag) and title back in FEB 2010 as the post states I have driven the car since then. Having two tags in FL is exspensive for a college student w/limited means. As also stated the car hasn’tbeen sitting for “months” as you “suspected” Its been about five weeks now I sent a P/S request the week the plates were switched. Anyways the issue was not about keeping the car in the driveway for the permanatly I was just attempting to express my situation and why I need to sell the car quickly. I did try to explain my situation to the community watch which is why they started with the fines. The car always sat in the same spot with the plates and nobody complained.
2004 Honda Civic. 58000 miles Drives straight and doesn’t leak fluids.
Am I the only Honda guy giggling at this? OF COURSE it drives straight and doesn’t leak anything. It’s a Honda Civic with 58K miles!. Somebody has been spending too much time around old european cars.
The front end damage is kind of scary. This car was driven into the ground hard enough to bend the nose pretty profoundly. It is impressive that it still drives straight and that the A/C plumbing survived. It doesn’t mean that it will be cheap to fix though.
Living in an HOA community, da rules is part of da package. You don’t like it? Live somewhere else.
Seriously, the legal problem with HOA rules is that, in order for them to stay alive, they have to be enforced consistently and uniformly. While your car may look perfectly fine, if the HOA lets your car and others like it pass without comment, it may find itself having a hard time in the future dealing with some rusted-out P-O-S on blocks with squirrels nesting in the back seat that any reasonable person would agree is an eyesore and needs to go.
Here’s a constructive suggestion: go to your HOA, explain your situation and ask them to waive the fine or whatever for 30 days. It’s always better to talk than shoot. Then fix the problem in 30 days: either remove the car or get it plated.
Now, I’m not an expert in what it would cost to make your car legally roadable (i.e. with plates and registration). However, NOBODY is going to buy your car without being satisfied that you can convey a good title to the buyer (that is nobody that you’d ever want to see again if you’re not in the company of an armed guard). So, you need to put yourself in a position to be able to do that. If the car is titled in your mother’s name, you need to get the executor of her estate to execute a transfer of that title to you, and then you need to get the car titled in your name. Because when your buyer shows up with the $5K you want, you need to be able to assign your title to him/her, and assigning your mother’s title looks flaky — because it puts your buyer at risk that everything done by your mother’s executor was kosher.
Secondly, almost nobody is going to buy a car that they can’t drive; and a car without plates on it is a car that they can’t drive. If I’m test driving a car, the last thing I want to have happen is to have the cops pull me over for driving a car with no plates, that I don’t own, don’t have papers on, etc. At best, that’s going to ruin the whole rest of my day. At worst, it’s going to ruin several of my days and cost me some money. So, if you want me to buy your car that I can’t drive, I’m going to take a BIG discount off the price for assuming the risk that the tranny doesn’t work, that the suspension is bent out of shape and that I need to replace some or all of the components of the braking system . . . and, that I have to hire a towtruck to take the car away from your house.
Somehow, I think when you add all of this up, it’s going to make sense to title the car in your name, and get proper plates.
Regarding the comments on which of your two cars you should sell at this time of your life, I agree wholeheartedly. And I would add that you’ll find that insuring the Honda is way cheaper than insuring any BMW, even just for your liability. Just sayin . . .
A more constructive suggestion is for him to keep the Honda and get it plated, sell the Bimmer, and move out of the horrible HOA situation.
This is why I will never purchase a house in a subdivision with a HOA. I don’t need a bunch of idiots trying to tell me what (legitimate, reasonable, legal) things I can/can’t do on my own property. Why anyone agrees to that sort of busybody rubbish is absolutely beyond me.
BTW – I actually had a similar situation with the last car I bought, which had expired Florida plates on it when I viewed it (private party, in NH). I wanted the car inspected, so I had the car towed to a shop nearby that also sold used cars on the side. Once they inspected it, I asked if they would be willing to put dealer plates on it so I could test drive it. They obliged, the car seemed terrific on the drive and I bought it.
Wait, I thought the answer was always “engine swap.”
Do you like driving the Civic enough to consider keeping it? Then clean up the BMW and the Civic and put them both up for sale. Let fate decide!
As much as I hate the tall annoying fences in Levittown, I’ll take them over an annoying HOA telling me I can’t change my own oil (which a few local ones do).
Take Sajeev’s advice and throw the Civic on Craigslist as as honest as possible. Then take my advice and move.
Remind me never to live somewhere with a homeowners association. If someone had the gall to whine about one of my cars and then try and ticket me, they’d find that their front lawn had mysteriously been fertilized with old engine oil.
I agree the inner SL, sell the bimmer, save money on fuel and maintenance.
Use the money to get the Honda plated and drive a much more economical ride into the sunset without worrying about dent on the front bumper. It is not even visible from your picture so why waste money on having an issue that is not even cosmetic fixed?
Dump the crappy BMW, why on earth would you sell the reliable running car in this guys situation. Low cost newer Honda, or old broken down extremely expensive over engineered german money pit. Hummmm…..
Not much of a car guy, are you?
Use some of the money from the sale of the car to paint your house florescent orange. Then place a statue of a naked Roman peeing into a bird bath on your front lawn. Maybe then those busy-body losers er, neighbors will do the world a favor and have themselves a nice coronary.
No, they’ll fine you again. That is EXACTLY the reason why people live with HOA’s in their community…so that the year after they move in, the neighbors do NOT paint their house some godawful color or foist their religious beliefs on you with their lawn ornaments…Hey, I’m no fan of the HOA usually, EXCEPT for when the rules are in my favor :-).
I will say however, that since the OP did mention the motorhome that parks across the street for 6 months straight, I’d be calling that in the next time it appears. That’s almost always a no-no in an HOA community. You want an RV? Go buy a house with a big lot without an HOA or spring for the house with the RV garage or the RV passthrough to the back and then figure out the rule that discusses how to “camouflage” the bulk from the neighbors…
$5,000 is the deal of the century for such cheap reliable transportation. Sure, it’s not a BMW but maintenance will be $oil changes and it will last for. ev. er.
Why not do what the rest of the world does and ask for double what it’s worth? “But it’s a Honda, so who cares if it has 200,000 miles and looks like a toaster?”
Drive it through the HOA office, if such a place exists. In all seriousness, I’m sure most HOA are run by logical, reasonable people; a quick chat with the president or board member explaining the situation should get you a reasonable extension and a waived fine. If it’s one of the outfits run by crazy asshole busy bodies then, well, consider burning their houses down and levying a fine. After doing a little bit of research for a friend in regard to a sailboat he was storing behind his house for the winter I did come across some horror stories that made me want to kick children and old people down flights of stairs they were so infuriating. I will never, EVER take a risk like that.
PS- With regard to the car, $4-4500 all day long for a clean, low mileage example that needs what looks to be light cosmetic work. If it’s just the lower radiator support and the top of it is still straight and true and the fenders weren’t tweaked it looks like you could get away with a new bumper cover. The holes in the plastic underpan and the bumper might not line up on the bottom of the support but you can just tuck one inside the other and forget about it.
I can imagine why the HOA might be so anal. From my personal experience on my HOA board, there are 3 reasons why they might have ticketed the guy:
1. A neighborhood busybody complained (and cited the relevant section of the bylaws). It is easier to cite the guy than deal with the busybody.
2. Broken windows theory or zero tolerance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#Theoretical_explanation
3. HOA is going out of its way to make sure no one thinks they are playing favorites. HOA is trying to set a uniform standard so that no one asks for exemptions or cites exemptions given to someone else.
I think we all understand the “why” but it doesn’t make it any less absurd. No reasonable person would argue a late model Civic contributes to a “disordered environment which is littered, vandalized and not maintained.” Pay the fine in pennies, unrolled.
As others have said:
Since you’re in college, get the Civic new tabs and licensing documentation and sell the BMW. When you’re done with college and gainfully employed, then it’ll be time for a more fun vehicle.
You’re just lucky no one caught you walking barefoot in the clubhouse…
Anyway, I can’t imagine that you couldn’t easily sell this car for around $5000 with just a wash and vacuum.
Craigslist is the easiest and cheapest way, but Autotrader or ebay tend to attract fewer psychos.
Chuck,
Very sorry about your loss.
I’m in Florida also, so yes I’ve heard about “The Villages”. They don’t sound any different than any other HOA in this state. They have to be fair in recording all violations and sending out notices. $44 a week is a little steep even by Florida standards, but that’s probably what they have in their bylaws.
Maybe I’ve missed it, but I didn’t see anyone suggesting moving the car to one of those storage places. Many storage places have a fenced in grass area where folks park boats and RVs for extended times. For probably something around $44 per month, you can park the car somewhere safe until you have reasonable time to deal with it. If you really wanted to protect the car, you could rent a garage size storage space for around $100.
You may decide to keep it, or just wait for the right offer.
Good Luck.