I was not the only journalist to feel a little let down by Volkswagen’s latest Jetta. After building a name in the US by offering classy European-style appointments without charging European sports-sedan prices, the latest Jetta is, well, just a little too American. VW insists that the stripped-out interior helps bring the Jetta’s pricetag down to American expectations, but it’s not at all clear that competing on Toyota’s turf will be a winning strategy for the German automaker. And it certainly won’t work in Europe, where VW offers the same Jetta with an improved interior, the multilink rear suspension offered stateside only in GLI trim, and more options like multi-zone climate control. But will US-market consumers ever have the option of buying a European-spec Jetta with all of its upmarket features?? When asked by InsideLine, VW’s Jetta boss Frank Donath answered
There is the strong chance that the midlife Jetta for North America could get all of the European features. It depends on sales performance.
VW has played this game before, hinting that the Amarok pickup truck might come to the US if consumers buy 100k units. In this case, there’s a better chance of VW having to make good on the offer, as consumers could well buy quite a few Jettas. But then, if Americans are buying lots of the cheap US-style Jettas, why bring in the Euro model? Let’s face it: the days of old-style Volkswagens is as good as over. At least until it brings the very European Scirocco over.
Decontented autos with poor reliability and also-ran interiors…
VW wants to be the new old Ford.
Reliability in the Mk Vs has been good for years and even gets a recommended from CR’s crappy surveys.
I keep reading that the interior is docontented but since the old was head and shoulders above the competition I’ll bet the new one is still better then most competitors. The writers never seem to compare the new interior to others, only the old Mk V.
Reliability in the Mk Vs has been good for years and even gets a recommended from CR’s crappy surveys.
The MkIV was a deliberate exercise in cost-cutting as the MkV wasn’t sustainable. The NCS came about because, even with the cost savings of the MkIV it didn’t meet VW’s targets. Given that cost-0cutting gave Toyota and Honda small amounts of grief in 97-02, I don’t hold out much hope for this car because, frankly, VW’s QA is nowhere near Honda or Toyota.
psarhjinian,
it’s not the VW QA that is the _main_ problem, it is the bad design of their vehicles. You can’t quality-check something that is designed to fail.
The price of arrogance. If VW continued to position itself as a cut above the low-priced brands it could plausibly carve out a highly profitable, if lower volume, position in the US. Alas, dreams of world dominance have clearly overwhelmed common sense.
Well I now how to interpret that comment and I totally agree with it. I am so disappointed in the direction of VW, the one company I thought had a grip on things.
Now look at the Passat..it’s a giant shitty version of the de-contented Jetta. I’ll get the popcorn and sit back and watch the fools at VW backpedal on this in 3 years when they have lost a ton of money on this short sighted strategy
I don’t know how to interpret this comment. If U.S. sales are poor VW tweaks the strategy and takes the product upmarket? Or if U.S. sales are strong, they introduce the Europe version to supplement even further.
I like this product more than the reviews. Agree with half of Ed’s review (that door armrest seam criticism was fair, but slipping the hand under the panel is consistent with all prior models). People overlook the value proposition – it starts at $15,995! Would the reviews have been different if the starting price was $14,995?
Biggest miss is not having the ‘full’ steering wheel controls — only one side included.
And the Elantra is going to provide a significant competitor. As long as you’re ok with awful visibility with those tiny windows!
I think you are missing the point. VW was a semi upscale model designed to have a full line of options and features that separates it from the Japanese competition. It was the affordable German sport sedan.
Now it’s just a plain vanilla German version of a Corolla which is a departure from what was once the core values of VW. I was a VW sales manager for years and these new Jettas and Passats are a severe disappointment. This type of thing may gain them sales in the short run but they will chase away many of the loyalists like myself costing them sales in the long run. Being the biggest is not a great goal to have, just look what that did to Toyota
I am a loyalist (MKIV) who has graduated to levels far above the price point. But I’d still be in the market for this, appreciating the semblance (albeit watered-down) of European styling, combined with terrific bang for the buck. As far as I can see, there isn’t a true competitor in this admittedly very specific niche. Especially when you tack-on the practicality of the TDI.
pjstevens77 “I think you are missing the point. VW was a semi upscale model designed to have a full line of options and features that separates it from the Japanese competition. ”
I think VW management is missing the point. VW is a semi downscale brand that had most of it’s sales as cheap Chinese taxi and hardly anyone in North America would buy.
If people want something upscale, they will go for Lexus or BMW. If they want something semi upscale, they go for Acura or Volvo. VW was born to be (German) People’s Car, and remains to be (Chinese) People’s Car.
Welcome to life with a weak dollar.
Dollar strenghtened in the last years against the Euro, so I don’t know what you mean.
I’m not sure I understand what the difference is between the GLI and a euro-spec Jetta. Is he actually saying that the GLI version is dependent on Jetta sales and not implying another trim level might be offered?
There’s currently no 2011 GLI model offered on the VWUSA configuator.
right, but does that mean that when we’re talking about the GLI VW is talking about euro-spec Jettas? It’s possible the the GLI they’ve been promising is actually dependent upon the success of the already released models.
I dunno…there is little to add to this topic.
Most Americans seem to want boring and bland cars that are affordable, comfortable, and work. If this thing proves to have decent reliability, it could pose a very tempting alternative to the droves of folk who buy silver Civics, Corollas etc…
Besides, as has been pointed out elsewhere, we still have the Golf/GTi for auto enthusiasts who are after the Euro experience at a fair price… and the hatch is the Euro thing to do…
“If this thing proves to have decent reliability”
Except that it won’t. Even Subarus and Mitsus can’t match Toyonda reliability, much less over-engineered German stuff with complex turbos, direct injection, interfering valves, and dual-clutch mechanical monstrosities.
I am thinking that if it doesn’t sell enough, it will bring the euro unit over and the price will go up. If people don’t want to buy a watered down Jetta, I could see the euro model coming over.
I don’t understand this fixation with cheap interiors. Does anybody think that a Dodge Caliber with a BMW level interior would be any less crappy? Conversely, if VW simply decontented the interior of the previous model Jetta with cheap plastic that it would be any less desirable? I don’t know about you but I buy a car for driving dynamics. If the Caliber handled like a Jetta GLI I could easily live with the craptastic interior.
A Dodge Caliber with even a Hyundai level interior would be a big improvement.
The US version also has rear drum brakes.
Talk about decontenting…
Drum brakes are absolutely fine in a compact or midsize car. The fronts do most of the work, the car itself isn’t driven hard and drums aren’t susceptible to debris damage like rear discs are.
“the car itself isn’t driven hard” I drive a car considered by the EPA to be a compact. It is driven hard. I am glad it has rear discs rather than drums, as they remain virtually fade-free after repeated heavy braking. While not everyone will drive a compact or mid-size car hard, some will; to those, discs vs. drums may be an important differentiator. And in almost two decades of driving, I have never experienced debris damage to any brake disc.
Drum brakes are a PitA to work on in the driveway as well.
I’d like to see some stopping distance comparisons in various conditions. Highway speeds are usually a bit higher here in Europe (until there’s another sudden traffic jam) and maybe there are also a bit more curves and undulations, plus we think frequent lane changes are perfectly acceptable. Anyway, quite an alarming lot of my friends found themselves in a situation where suddenly traffic stopped or slowed down so much on the highway that they crashed into it. I don’t know if that’s a reflection on their driving skills but I don’t think so (or, at least not in all cases). Personally I just managed to avoid a crash in the same situation once when a guy in front of me stepped on the brakes hard enough to lock his tires. Luckily I could escape to the adjacent lane.
Too make a long story short; I’d rather have good brakes (and tires) than adequate ones, cause those few meters (yes, meters) might just make the difference.
Too make a long story short; I’d rather have good brakes (and tires) than adequate ones, cause those few meters (yes, meters) might just make the difference
In a car of this size, rear discs are not going to make a lick of difference in braking distance. Bigger front discs, on the other hand, certainly will
Drum brakes are a PitA to work on in the driveway as well.
Yeah, but they last a lot longer. They don’t get pitted, they don’t warp and they generally stay clear of crud. If you live somewhere with gravel roads (or anywhere that they salt/sand in winter) this is helpful
“last a lot longer”? Rear disc brake pads routinely go over 100k miles. And when they’re worn down, you don’t have to try to yank them off past a worn-in ridge holding them in place. Nor do you need a special tool to remove them, unlike the spring retainers on drum brake shoes. And they don’t have an adjuster to get stuck.
Brake rotors don’t warp, they get uneven pad material deposits from improper break-in. 10 minutes with some garnet paper and 10 minutes on an empty road after a pad swap will fix that.
The only reason mfgrs put drum brakes on any car since the 80 is that they are still (for some wierd reason) cheaper to source. In service, brake rotors are cheap, brake pads are cheap, and servicing a disc system is so much simpler than drums that there’s no reason not to have them.
I have to disagree with the notion that larger front discs or that discs in the rear let you brake harder. In any car with ABS, if you are able to engage the ABS you are by definition braking as hard as possible. Further, in any properly maintained modern car, it is possible to hit the ABS point without any difficulty. Remember, the only reason the ABS kicks in is because the wheel is locked, i.e. the brake has stopped the wheel from rotating.
The only reason to go to larger front discs or rear discs is for the NEXT time you hit the brakes immediately after the first time. The larger discs will dissipate heat faster and thus be able to provide full force again faster than smaller discs or drums. If you are on the track you need bigger brakes. If you are hooning through the canyons you MAY need larger brakes. If you commute to work and think you need bigger brakes to be safe, you are wasting your money. It is unlikely that you will need to brake so hard that the ABS would kick in twice in a row within seconds of the previous occurrence.
Drums may be a bit harder to service but they generally don’t need to be serviced as often.
Instead of worrying about decontented versions vs. upper grade versions of their product why can’t VW focus on improving reliability of their vehicles across the board if they want to make inroads to the U.S. market ? A priority should also be improving their dealership service which I’ve heard can be a nightmare . Seems to me they’re worried about what interior to put in their cars when people stay away from them because of bad ownership experiences they or people they know have had with VW . In other words junk is still junk no matter how dressed (or undressed) up it is made out to be . People would buy the German version of a Corolla if it was as reliable as a Corolla – cheap interior plastics notwithstanding .
I think we are the ones worried about the decontended interior…..not VW
So VW is trying to beat Toyota by making the Jetta as dull as the Camry, except without the reliability. This can only end in tears.
Exactly
History repeats itself. In the early 1980s, VW “Malibuized” the Rabbit. As gas prices dropped, so did the appeal of the Americanized Rabbits. With the Rabbit GTI, VW saw the light, and the Mk II cars were peddled as fun-to-drive German cars for the thrifty. Even so, 18 years (1975-93) is a long time for just two generations, and VW almost failed in the US.
At the Detroit car show, my friend, a big Mk IV VW Jetta fan, liked the new Jetta, but she thought the new Passat looked too “American, too much like a Ford”. She was fine with the Jetta interior–“it’s nice, though you’re right, not as nice as it was”.
Delusion can be liberating….in it’s quest for ‘global’ domination, VW is going to go backwards in North America. Most Americans equate German cars with “expensive to fix”. Most VW lovers equate VW dealers with “incompetent ripoff artists” and we take good care of our independent mechanics. If I want content per dollar, I’ll get a Hyundai or a newer Chevrolet or Ford, not a VW. If I want a fun car with a manual trans, VW’s moves make Subarus, Minis, and others look a lot more attractive.
pjstevens77 and the author of the article miss one key point. The new Jetta and Passat may be deontented from old and not a “typical” VW (although the Jetta’s styling is also the same as that in Europe) but there are plenty of “typical” VW’s for sale – the Golf, Jetta SportWagen, GTi, CC, Tiguan etc. I am from the UK originally so don`t care about the sedan version, give me the wagon or hatchback. Since the Golf, GTi and Wagon are all European quality then what is the issue. If you go into the VW dealer and hate the Jetta’s interior go and buy a Golf.
The other thing I would mention is that people thought the US Passat would have crappy suspension – when it is actually independent suspension. So they haven`t decontented as much as feared and something had to give if $27K was the base price for a Euro Passat when the market for mid-size cars is starting at $20K.
With regards reliability look at Truedelat and 2006 onwards the reliability of VW’s is reasonable. So lets move on from 2002-2005 shall we.
VW is lost in America. The old Jetta was their best seller, so they create the New Jetta that looks, well, wholly forgettable, and whose main selling point is cheapness. The old Passat was too expensive, but they’d like to sell you an SUV for 60 large? At this stage of the game, the GTI and maybe the Golf diesel (or CC if you must have a flashy sedan) are the only compelling reasons to drive VW.
mpresley
I’ve started sticking up for this car so I might as well continue here. I haven’t seen anyone (my fiance, friends etc…) that hasn’t thought the new Jetta didn’t look good on the road, definitely better than previous attempts. Internet opinions are the only real negative ones I’ve seen. And since I got to drive one (a 2.5 not a 2.0) I’m of the firm opinion that it handles better than, or at least as well as, the outgoing Jetta as well. So what’s the beef? I’d honestly buy one dollar for dollar over the older car.
I see VW selling their most reliable drivetrains in better looking, larger interior packages at a cheaper price. The downside/upside is really that they’ve finally stopped giving us complicated drivetrains by default, and because of that the heavily marketed cars are less interesting. So I think we’ll probably see their CR scores improving soon, and that might be as important for Jetta and Passat sales as the much exaggerated lower base prices.
Interesting that you say it “looks good” on the road. To my mind it doesn’t look at all. It is completely anonymous. But maybe that’s the point. And they’ve done the same to the New Passat. Obviously this is a conscious decision to make the blandest cars possible on the low-end, and maybe upsale to Audi, folks that are looking for style. Just compare the New Jetta with the Scirocco and you’ll wonder what happened.
+1 to looks better on the road. The rear styling is A4-ish, obviously more restrained for those who don’t need to flaunt it. Plus the windows seem to provide a decent view out, unlike the Hyundais.
Most Americans equate German cars with “expensive to fix”. Most VW lovers equate VW dealers with “incompetent ripoff artists” and we take good care of our independent mechanics.
This is what VW simply doesn’t get. All they needed to do was improve the reliability of the current VWs so they could at least be on par with Toyota and Honda. So it wouldn’t be so damned expensive to keep VWs running. Making the dealerships less incompetent and ripoff-ish would also do wonders.
Making German Impalas at fleet-sale prices is a cynical ploy that’s gonna get VW burned. Again. And with Hyundai offering nicer, more reliable products for about the same amount of cash, it’s only a matter of time until VW starts bleeding again. When a new Ford is a much nicer place to be in, you know you have problems.
Seems like ze Germans will learn this the hard way.
Always like to read an article about VW’s. Everyone gives their 2 cents about how great Toyota’s and Honda’s are but VW is the bad, bad, bad. I can never understand how people can come up with these so called statements. Cars are cars I have owned many name plates including Toyota’s, Honda’s and VW’s. There are good dealers and of course bad dealers and of course many independent mechanics that are very good and some that make our goverment look honest. I love how no body mentions weak transmissions and blown head gaskets on Honda’s or problems with Toyota’s or Subarus that can’t keep their internal fluids within the engine. I have had them all. A car is a car. If you have luck with a Toyota god bless you. If you had luck with a Subaru great. I have owned quite a few VW’s and have had great luck with both the cars and dealers. Its strange that VW is one of the most popular cars in Germany but the Toyota’s, Honda’s & Subrau’s have a tough time taking over there markets.
I have not seen the 2011 VW’s yet as i do most of my servicing on my cars (2 VW’s & 1 Volvo) but have seen them in parking lots and they don’t look bad at all. Time will tell who is right. And speaking about a manufacturer not knowing what they are doing just look at Honda. They have lost their way with most of their models. My buddy’s 2004 Honda Element is sitting in the Honda dealer now with a blown engine. Did not even get to the 60,000 mile service yet.
Dealer is telling him he needs a used or new engine. Dealer claims it is quite common. Also claims that the entire cooling system including the heater core has to be replaced. I for one will keep buying VW’s.
The new Jetta wasn’t built for VW diehards (myself uncluded). It was built to steal buyers considering other brands. Unfortunately the VW badge’s poor reputation doesn’t stand a chance against the T’s and H’s on the trunks of the competitors. For the rest of us, let’s be thankful Audis depreciate quickly. Can’t stomach the new Jetta? Buy a used A3.
Auto dealer row in my town is only a couple miles from me. It includes VW, Toyota, Hyundai (sp?), Mazda, Subaru, Nissan and a couple I’m forgetting. On occasion I visit the dealers just to check my reactions against what’s reported and enjoy the comp coffee. To my eye, low-end Toyotas have cheap looking interiors and other evidence of cost cutting. The much maligned new Jettas aren’t as nice as old Jettas, but they’re still better than the low-end Toyotas, and the lower price might make up for the interior in these perilous times. Granted, the new Jetta’s trunk hinges are flimsy looking, but I’m used to looking at the rugged hinges of my 10-year-old Saab. The Jetta looks like it was designed by grownups, and I like restrained, Audi-style interiors. The problem with VWs has been reliability, expense if something goes amiss and they just don’t seem to age well. When VW hires me as a consultant, I’ll recommend enhancing those areas and cease making Germanic comments about what they’re doing to design vehicles for the dumbkopf NA market, which cannot be done without sounding patronizing. You have to know when to shut up.
I agree, the new Jetta still gives me a higher initial perception of quality than any of its competitors.
I can’t pass judgement on the new Jetta until I sit in one. And, to be honest, I wasn’t that bowled over by the Mk V’s “nicer” interior. It’d be nice if it still had trunk struts, but Honda only offered them in the early ’90s and Toyota never bothered.
And I bet even the strippo S would be a step up from my ’02 Civic LX, aka the Civic that switched to Mac struts. When it was new, that car was just as big of a disappointment compared to its predecessor. It’s as gutless as the Two Point Slow and the interior feels pretty cheap (but still not Chevy cheap). And, oh horrors, my car even has the dreaded rear drums! Without ABS!
My Honda also stickered for more in ’02 than the ’11 Jetta.
So, yeah, I’d gladly take a new Jetta if I was looking to replace my Honda. But only if I could afford to trade it as soon as the warranty was up.
I’m still driving a 03 Jetta Wagon with the ‘Two Point Slow’ and I must confess that while it’s not the quickest thing in the world, it is more than sufficient for my daily commuting needs (highway merging and all).
I must confess that I also like the look of the new North American Jetta and think it is a good option within the compact car market. I will add, however, that the loaner I drove a while back while my own was in for service (bushings and such–still cheaper than buying new) already had more squeaks and creaks than my 03 wagon. But then again my 03 wagon still drives and handles as well as, if not better than, most new cars in the compact price range (at least the ones I’ve tested), so the new Jetta may not be particularly unique in that regard.
What VW is doing is eerily reminiscent of Mercedes in the early-mid 1990’s after the Germans were shown that the Japanese not only do it better, and that the Germans would not be insulated by a public unwilling to forego the “status” of an MB star on the hood vs. a higher quality Lexus.
So how did MB respond (wasn’t the CEO Schremp or something like that). They lowered quality even further in an attempt to again become price competitive (exchange rates, European taxes and unions rendered that a fool’s errand) and went downscale, trying to parlay the “MB star” into a vehicle for every garage, thus diminishing the prestige along the way.
We all know how that worked out. Today Mercedes is a has-been …