Well, the problem isn’t so much that compact cars aren’t youthful… it’s that the buyers of compact cars are surprisingly un-youthful. The C-Segment, compact cars in the class of Honda’s Civic, Toyota’s Corolla, Ford’s Focus and Chevy’s Cruze, are typically thought of as “Kid Cars,” or first-time automobile purchases for younger buyers. That stereotype may still be true, but if it is, the young buyers aren’t actually buying the cars. This week, Ford’s executive in charge of launching compact cars like the forthcoming 2012 Focus turned my perspective on the C-Segment upside down by telling me that Ford’s research showed that the average age of a compact car buyer was… get this… 57 years old. Given that TTAC has questioned the viability of the Buick brand for having an average buyer age in the low-to-mid 60s, it’s worth considering the reasons for the surprising age of C-segment buyers. And while we’re at it, let’s throw another stereotype on the fire, namely the old chestnut that compact cars are “basic transportation” for folks who can’t afford a car in the next class up. According to Ford’s data, 50 percent of C-Segment buyers come from households making $75,000 per year or more.
I wish TTAC had more of this kind of demographic data to share, so we could track changes in compact car-buying demography over time, but it seems fairly clear that the compact class is attracting older, more affluent buyers than it once did. So we want to know: how do you interpret these trends? Will older, richer buyers continue to downsize, or is this a short-term phenomenon driven by gas prices and economic recession? Meanwhile, what impact will this shifting demography have on compact cars themselves?
“Basic Transportation”??
There is no such thing anymore. Compare today’s compacts with a Honda Civic or VW Rabbit of the 80s (which defined “basic” in both price & features) and you’ll see how far from basic we’ve moved. You can’t even buy a “basic” machine anymore. Even the bottom of the line models are packed with stuff considered luxuries just a few years ago.
“Kids” today buy used. They can not afford a new car. Neither can their parents. Is it no wonder only grandparents are showing up at the dealer’s new car lots?
“Basic Transportation”??
There is no such thing anymore.
You’re right. Not when a cheap, mediocre Fiesta can cost upwards of $23,000…or a simple Taurus can cost near $50K.
@Silvy
…and I suppose GM has some new, stylish miracle sedan for $21K that will carry 5 330 pound NFL linemen up a 10,000 foot mountain pass at 85 mph while getting 37 mpg?
When it comes to Ford, SimpleSilvy doesn’t have a one-track mind… he has a half-track mind.
@ PatrickJ – GM currently offers the not even mediocre Chevrolet Aveo in the B segment. Hopefully, it doesn’t have to pull itself up Loveland Pass or the Eisenhower anytime soon.
The Ford stealership up the road from me has 10 Fiestas on the lot. Two of which have a manual transmission, the lowly Fiesta S sedan with a $13,200 sticker and a maxed out SES hatch with a sticker over 19K.
Chuck is dead on. Young people can’t afford any new car. Many of them don’t even have steady jobs. These compacts are very expensive compared to the B210 my father-in-law bought in the late 70’s, although in most ways they are vastly better cars.
Why is the average age 57? Because this user group does not yet have good alternatives to these Domestic compacts. This will change in the next three years when Mercedes, and Audi will offer their less expensive models with clean diesels that will embarrass the American Eco-posers in performance, comfort, and fuel economy. GLK with 36 mpg anyone? Volkswagen will finally offer the Passat (CC?) with the TDI in the near future making a much more compelling case for this demographic than the Cruse or Focus.
My wife and I inherited that B210, and we have never owned another compact since. That was truly a “kids car”. It looks like we will continue to own European cars in the future.
I’m waiting.
@Silvy
…and I suppose GM has some new, stylish miracle sedan for $21K that will carry 5 330 pound NFL linemen up a 10,000 foot mountain pass at 85 mph while getting 37 mpg?
I don’t know…do they? I really don’t follow GM all that closely. I have too many other brands and models I like to get sucked to one manufacturer.
You could, up to a year or so ago, buy a Yaris with crank windows. Hardly anyone did, though, and as such it was actually cheaper to make them all electric. You see this across the board: once a feature becomes cheap enough to be the default in a product that makes money on volume, the lack of it actually costs more.
It’s what’s killing manual transmissions, what killed unpowered steering (last car you could get that in: the Echo hatchback, ~2001) and brakes, carburetors, magneto-powered headlights, crank-starters, manual chokes, horses, etc. You’d think we’d recognize the pattern and stop bitching about it by now.
Do you want carbs back? I sure as hell don’t.
For the record, the current base Yaris costs about a two grand more, unconverted, than my parents’ 1987 Corolla. That two grand gets you power everything (the Corolla has power nothing: brakes, steering, windows, locks, nothing. It didn’t even come with an AM radio). On top of that you get stability control, decent emissions, way more power, a decent seating position, real space, about the same fuel economy and the privilege of not dying in a crash. If I corrected for inflation, the Yaris probably cost much, much less.
Compared to, say, housing, where I’m definitely screwed vis a vis my parents, cars are insanely cheap for what you get today. The reason kids don’t buy C-segments (or rather, the reason not-kids do) is because they aren’t the cheap, tinny, slow, hair-shirt deathtraps that they used to be. Hell, if you’re on a limited budget (and anyone under 45 definitely is, given our disproportionate share of the lack of jobs and mobility—thanks, Boomers) you can even wait a year or two and get the Boomer or Greatest Generation sloppy seconds for cheap and still get a decent car, even in the C-segment.
Am I supposed to feel bad about that?
I agree, cars are getting more affordable all the time, that is why homes and energy are getting more expensive imo. Supply and Demand, More people moving around using energy, with extra savings wanting something with a much more limited supply e.g. homes and energy. I’m guessing the house prices will come down when energy prices go down, it would be Ironic if EVs get that going.
” Hell, if you’re on a limited budget (and anyone under 45 definitely is, given our disproportionate share of the lack of jobs and mobility—thanks, Boomers) you can even wait a year or two and get the Boomer or Greatest Generation sloppy seconds for cheap and still get a decent car, even in the C-segment.”
Right on the money! Boomers were, until a few years ago, elated at the massive housing price inflation because it was making them a lot of money. Meanwhile, their children were supposed to come up with the money to pay for it. Recent decades have seen a massive shift of wealth and opportunity from the kids to the parents (generationaly speaking).
“what killed unpowered steering (last car you could get that in: the Echo hatchback, ~2001)”
smart fortwo. Before that, I think you could get a manual rack in the LC Accent stripper special. When did the Miata drop the manual rack?
57? I wonder how much of this is due to the crappy economy? If someone in the traditional first-time buyer demographic has a job, can they even get the financing for a new car these days?
@ Lectrobyte,
I think a lot of it has to do with the crappy economy. I believe the people who can afford better are downgrading because they fear what is to come. This recession pounded a lot of people who sailed through previous crises relatively unscathed.
Why isn’t my generation (me being 18) buying compacts? Show me any new car that I or any of my friends could afford with the jobs that there are (aren’t) for us. Question answered.
The only new cars in my school’s parking lot belong to their driver’s parents, or in one case the family is filthy rich and needs to move to Newtown.
Nuff Said.
it’s probably because ‘compact cars’ are really uncool
look at the chevy cruze… now theres a desperately unhip car
or the cars are so feminine they tend to alienate women let alone men… look at the chevy spark
the cool compact cars are too expensive… eg. the VW Golf GTI
toyota tried hard to get younger folk in with the scions and the pretenders like the cube and the kia soul but the reality is what’s cool is usually not affordable
I don’t quite fit that demographic at age 46 but I do fit the income level. At my age, a car is a form of transportation, a tool as it were. I don’t need 400 hp to go to the market .I realise that 99% of my driving is neither canyon carving or bahn-burning. Thus, I am looking for a comfortable, reliable car that is easy to park, cheap to run, comfortable and doesn’t break the bank to buy. This is because, at 46, I see retirement coming like a freight train.
Age 57 is the centre of the boomers, while I am at the bottom end. What pleases me is that we are seeing better and more offerings in smaller cars. These are the cars the American makers said would never sell here but always did, in droves. It is great to see that European designs are FINALLY making it here; I recently spent a week in a Festia, for example, and I was really impressed with it. I am really looking forward to the 2012 Focus. Point is, boomers such as myself are looking for value in what they drive and understand the cost of doing so. I would love to rent a 300C but I wouldn’t even buy one, the cost of ownership (and ability to park it) is not something I want to deal with.
We are getting much better products than even five years ago. Again, it is legislation that caused it. Without the new CAFE laws, the American makers would still be flogging SUVs and pickups. Instead, they have been FORCED to bring their European stuff here and it has been a resounding hit. These are the cars we boomers have wanted for years. CAFE is also responsible for dual clutch and multi-speed automatics and direct injection. A by product is by bring world platforms, they save tons of cash, which allows better engineering of the products we get.
I wanted them to do this 30 years ago and it is has taken this long. What I can say is for the first time in my life, there may be a Ford in my future.
Why aren’t compacts “youthful?” Well, it’s the 45-60 demographic that is growing the fastest and, well, that group tends to be well educated and careful shoppers.
I am 40+ and make good money. I have a 95 Mystique with 313,000 miles and a 04 CTS with 70,000 miles.
Although a great car, CTS is just too big.
Mystique is still my daily driver. CTS is for long trips.
When the Mystique finally gives up the ghost, I will most probably go out and pay cash for a loaded 2012 Focus manual tranny.
Close behind in the running would be Regal or Verano, loaded with manual tranny.
Well built, sporty, luxurious small cars is the future.
My parents did just fine with 3 kids in the back of Darts and Valiants from vintages of 1960 – 1974. No need for all these huge SUVs.
I am in the same boat. I have a 2008 Fit for the city and it is perfect for bombing around and we have a 2007 Camry 4 cylinder for trips. I simply do not need the headaches of a GTI and low profile tires that wear out and cause bent rims.
And I am also seriously considering a Focus, but only after about 2015, so I can see the reliability record. This is because the kids will get the Fit to drive when they are in university.
We are finally getting Euro cars, and it took CAFE laws to do it. The upshot is NIH syndrome is finally banished. We are getting much better products than even a few years ago.
Its the economy and I don’t see a change anytime soon. The younger age group is hit with the double whammy of low paying jobs (if any job at all) and horrendous school loans. Throw in a high cost of living and there’s very little $ left for auto transportation. As for the older buying group (I’m 63)…we’ve found that the smaller cars give up very little in interior space to the ancient “large” car segment. Additionally fuel costs are a constant sword hanging over the retiree’s head. And if we’re not retired now, we probable will be while we still own that newly purchased vehicle. Lastly, the cost of a smaller car, even with all the goodies, is still lower than the new full size cars. Cars like the new Taurus and LaCrosse will never achieve the volumes of the past as the “sweet spot” in auto size and PRICE is now closer to the C class cars that the bloated “family sedan” of the Accord/Camry.
Maybe the empty nesters are not as well off as they were 10 years ago. Also, today’s Civic has at least the interior room, maybe more than a 82 Honda Accord or Toyota Corona, if you are old enough to recall the latter.
Those of us old enough to remember the 70s and early 80s Accords and Coronas are finding the Corollas and Focuses of today quite large enough for commuting.
As someone over 50 who is working too far from home while hoping not to lose my job before retirement, my next car probably will be a compact.
If I had to go buy it today, it would be a Mazda 3.
My mom’s first new car was an ’80 Corona. After a series of ever-bigger Camrys and Accords, she switched to a last-gen Civic sedan. In terms of size and power, it’s pretty comparable to the Corona, and easy to park. She recently switched to a CR-V, and she chose it because in part because of the relatively compact exterior dimensions.
The bloat in new cars is ridiculous and unnecessary. We’re right back to where we were in the early ’70s. I bought my mom’s Civic as a backup car, and its reminded me of the joys of owning a small, efficient car. It beats the hell out of the 4Runner I used to drive, anyway.
all part of the deindustrialization with lowered wages and beneifts combined with Europeanization of American autos, less material expense, increased fuel economy/higher gas prices for longevity and sustained profitability.
Maybe this explains it. I just did a “build and price” on a 2012 Focus Titanium hatchback. $28,890!!! Doesn’t fit into the “basic transportation” category now does it?
The Titanium Hatchback is the premium Focus. People who would be looking for value added “basic transportation” wouldn’t be shopping the Titanium version. Try the S or SE model for Sedans or SE model for Hatchback and you’re in the basic transportation category for those shoppers. I’m not saying that the transaction prices aren’t cheaper compared to where they were five, ten or fifteen years ago. What I am saying is the C car market has evolved and the Focus is an intelligent representation of that.
Besides, Ford is banking on customers willing to pay for premium tech, innovation and mpg’s. I’d say given their results this past Friday, it’s been a smart bet and the Focus will only serve to support the above notions.
In my opinion, the $21k SE automatic five door is a screaming deal for a car of this equipment and technology.
If this is also the price in Canada, I may very soon buy one. However, if we get gouged do to our “low dollar (hahaha!)” I won’t buy. I wait until prices equalise or wait an additional year or two and buy a used one in Washington State.
Because we can barely afford a new car. And if we could, the insurance is absolutely insane.
Economy – U.S. middle class has been decimated by the housing bubble burst. Compound to this the decline in corporate pension plams and boomers downloading McMansions to pay for retirement. People have learned a painfull lesson here and they’re not going to get trapped by the next oil spike. I think the C-seg will continue to grow – make that sheetmetal too.
I’d like to insert I still predict a 4-cyl Fusion will be better $ value than a high end Fiesta or new Focus.
How was the “middle class devastated by the bubble burst”?
If you bought prior to 2003 on the coasts, your price hasn’t declined (save the armpit areas, like Manassas).
If you bought prior to 2005 in the middle parts, your price hasn’t declined.
Heck, even if you bought at the peak (2007) in Manassass…so what? If you can afford your mortgage, you are completely unaffected. These are unrealized losses, so if you don’t need to sell, it doesn’t matter. Or, if the unrealized loss bothers you, strategically default and “walk away”.
Also, roughly 2/3rds “own” a home, and only 2/3rds of those have a mortgage. In many parts of the country (e.g NYC), the middle class rents.
It has affected blue-collar workers, like tradesmen. It has affected illegal-laborers. It has affected detritus, such as Realtors (™), aka used-house-salesmen. It has affected Harley-Davidson dealers, and other folks that sold toys to people with HELOCs.
If anything affected the middle class this past decade, it was the malinvestment of the housing bubble, where people, and industries, wasted their money investing in plastic-clad houses (houses are a depreciating asset that produces nothing, despite with the REIC tells you) rather than in productive industries that produce exportable goods and/or increase efficiencies.
I’m quite sure the Norwgian market can’t be directly translated to the US one, but over here young people buy used cars, unless they have the money to buy sportier or more stylish small cars, like the Mini and Fiat 500.
I’m sure the average age of a Verano will be somewhat higher than say a Cruze buyer. A Verano buyer would be the same demo who bought back in the 80’s-90’s a Skylark (Verano roughly the same size as the 80’s 90’s N-Body) or a Century.
Cruze, Focus, Corolla or other C-Segment buyers who are younger, those 1st time buyers out of college new job would probably lease since a loaded 28K Focus or 25K Cruze might be out of the relm.
Based on my feelings, as well as a few coworkers, as you get older your car means less to you – it’s no longer so necessary to have the cool car. Our self worth isn’t wrapped up in it. To a lot of us, reliability, mpg, and low purchase price are probably more important to us than it is to the 20 somethings that don’t care if their vehicle consumes 50% of their take home pay.
I still like cool cars, I just have less of a desire to pay for them.
I’m in my 20’s and I know this. I buy good used cars with style and reliability to split the difference. I rather have a used TSX then a new Fiesta or Fit. Actually more like a used car from the 90s or early 2000s, can’t afford newer cars.
What we are seeing in congested urban environments such as my neighbourhood in Vancouver is that a car bigger than one really needs is simply a liability. We pay much more for gasoline in Canada than in the USA and parking is always hard to find and the spaces small. For that reason, for me anyway, I will always buy a car that is just big enough for my needs. Smaller cars are easier to park, cheaper to run and are usually more fun to drive.
If one wants, however, class leading NVH and equipment, there is not a correlation between size and price. It just doesn’t cost that much less to build a Focus than a Fusion. Besides, the future is here. With the 2016 CAFE laws, we are seeing smaller, more premium cars, just like Europe has had (almost) forever. Sure, you can get a base model, but one loaded to the gills is going to max out at a relatively high price. The great thing is, because we finally are seeing global platforms, we are getting far superior engineering than anything on the road just a few years ago.
Ford has been an engineering leader in Europe for years and not here. Well, that has changed because instead of caving into the UAW and the bean counters here, we are getting the best Ford has to offer from all over the world. Expect to see even more and better sub 2 litre products coming soon, cars that drive and handle well and don’t cost a fortune to run.
The incessant asset pumping, financialization and inflation that has passed for economic policy over the latter decades, combined with ever growing regulatory burdens on productive businesses and ever stricter zoning and land use regulation, have rendered young people from less than wealthy homes unable to buy anything new at all.
As a result of the above, increases in purchasing power is now derived not from ever more efficient production of anything, as much as from inflation driven price increases in assets benefiting relatively from inflation. Such as real estate in both Financial Centers and in places where many jobs are more or less directly involved in jockeying for their share of the newly printed money. Which of course, tend to largely be the same places.
Then, as a result of the above, the second layer of the purchasing power onion, has become comprised of business catering to those immediate beneficiaries, such as higher end retail, the “arts”, financial products, real estate in second home destinations, professional services like legal and vanity medical, toenail clipping and bedsheet changing for the inflation benefiting few etc., etc. All of which jobs, since their viability ultimately derive from geographically limited asset appreciation, will be located in expensive, “desirable” areas.
Predictably, the above ultimately leads to the only places young people can find a job, are in places where they can barely afford a shoebox to live in, leading them to make sacrifices in other areas, such as cars. And at the same time, it also leads to the jobs being created, being simple personal service jobs for the moneyed, which are almost always jobs where productivity, hence wages, are much less likely to grow fast than jobs in product producing fields.
Equally predictably, it leads to those old enough to have “gotten in” on the inflation bandwagon at an earlier stage, most commonly by buying a house, benefiting from the inflation and increased regulation. Which is why they can afford to buy new cars. While absent the inflation, their money would have been spent on maintenance of their now stagnant price dwelling, instead. A dwelling which would then be easier to afford for a young guy, leaving him more money for other things, like a new car.
You know, what I saw with my neighbours to the south, before the bubble crashed, was people buying stuff, cars included, not based on their needs or monthly finances, but on how big a loan they could swing. This, along with low interest leases, led to people buying gigantic behemoth transportation devices they could neither afford nor needed.
When it was going on, I said to everyone who would listen, “You don’t need a 5500 lb, six litre V-8 SUV to go to Wallyworld,” and I was right. Most people driving them did not need them nor could afford them.
We never really saw much of this in Canuckistand because banks here tend to be very conservative in lending and demand higher down payments on a sliding scale of credit rating. This is kind of the reason the Civic has been the national favourite forever, not the F150. A friend of mine was working as a finance officer in Chevy store in Georgia at the time and he astounded me when he told me he was getting people with 450 credit scores financed. You’d be laughed off the floor here with that kind of credit. For example, Honda will not do a zero down lease in Soviet Canuckistan with less than a 700 credit score.
Now we are seeing the USA go back to some financial sanity. People are saving money again. Yes, there will be a period of adjustment as all this artificially created wealth disappears but it is a good thing in the long run; people will have to learn to live on savings, not credit.
I might add, many of my Canuckistani friends are also in debt up to their eyeballs. Starting Mach 18, a home equity line of credit can only be 80% of the equity on one’s home. Many, many of these notes will be called on March 19 and many already exceed this level.
Sheeeeeit, I don’t believe I have ever seen such a cogent, compelling explanation of the collapse of bubbleconomy’s intergenerational effects. And on a car site! Well done!
Canucknucklehead, you didn’t fully understand stuki’s points.
The problem is not with people not saving. This a systematic problem with wealth distribution. When a large amounts of paper money is printed, unless you are in the elite group (i.e. Goldman, etc), your are more or less doomed. Saving money won’t serve you well, as inflation eats into your savings with full force.
As a couple of people here have already pointed out, I think there are a number of good reasons why so many ‘mature’ drivers lean towards compacts (and I would include myself in this category as well):
1) Many no longer need a family vehicle to carry kids everywhere they go, so a smaller vehicle is sufficient to suit many people’s needs.
2) Driving a large vehicle when you don’t need it seems wasteful and unnecessary (much like downsizing one’s house).
3) Small cars can be easier to maneuver, park and so on (though they also need to have relatively easy ingress/egress, hence what I see to be an increasing market for raised compact wagons, hatchbacks and so on like the Juke with the now aging boomers).
4) Small cars tend to have a lower overall cost of ownership, and most people in that age bracket are likely thinking long-term and probably want to spend their money on other things besides cars.
As to why young people are not buying compacts at the levels envisioned? That likely has more to do with economic considerations as much as anything else.
All good points Phil. Keep in mind too that us 40-50 somethings were coming of age when the first oil crisis hit in ’73, and there was a major paradigm shift in what constituted automotive coolness. The big cars coming out of Detroit were disasters, and there wasn’t yet the nostalgia for muscle and luxury cars of the 60s. The cool cars were compacts from Europe, and then Japan. While I’ve since developed an appreciation for big Detroit iron, I’d never want one for a daily driver.
The retired couple across the street form me has a Crown Vic. In 15 years, I’ve never seen anyone in the back seat. The Verano(assuming GM doesn’t drop the ball) will run rings around it, be easier to steer, stop, and park, and probably ride just as smoothly and quietly. If the nest is empty, a compact is all most people need for 99 percent of their driving, yes *gasp* even for interstate cruising…said with all due respect to the TTAC Panther Lovers Assoc.
As for why young people aren’t buying them, I doubt they’re buying many new cars of any size given the job market and the high cost of education. Heck, I didn’t buy a new car until I was 44.
Other than fuel economy, the panther cars do have a low cost of ownership – cheap and easy to maintain and repair in the unlikely event it breaks, and also cheap to insure. You have to look at total cost of ownership including all the factors before condemning a larger car.
My folks have a ’06 300 limited with the 3.5L V-6 and it gets an honest 29-30 mpg on the highway the way they drive it (i.e. at or just slightly below the speed limit). Believe it or not, the car has been reliable as a stone and they actually prefer the way it rides/drives to their ’98 Crown Vic that it replaced. To demonstrate how easy my parents are on their cars, the 300 is still on it’s original brakes and tires with 57,000 miles on it. Granted, the tires are just about due for replacement, but not too shabby for OEM spec rubber.
I’m 47, and look for a car with value and space inside it. My xB1 has all that; in fact, it has more usable space inside it than many SUVs I’ve crammed into.
I’m not interested in bling or wasteful extras. I don’t need AWD, a 10-way CD changer, electric sliding doors or hatches, sunroofs, DVD players, or 12 mpg. But these are the things that drive car prices into the 30s, 40s, and 50s.
With a large family, I’m also not yet downsizing. So a reasonably-priced compact car that is spacious and reliable is what I want.
And as other have mentioned, they’re easier to park and clean. I really don’t want a big boat of a car to deal with.
LOL, 46 and in the same car. I can drive it gently and squeeze 38mpg out of it. I brought home a new chest freezer in it. It’s a bit sluggish with 4-5 people in it, but I rarely do that.
Speaking from my own perspective only, we bought a Focus because that’s all we needed. It’s more than enough space and power for two empty-nesters, and it was a relative bargain at the time.
We will replace the car within the next few years, and any C-section hatchback will be under consideration. So far, the shortlist includes the Juke, Soul, Focus, Versa, Cruze (if Canada gets the hatch version), Elantra, Escape (or its replacement), and anything else that falls within my chosen metrics.
We don’t need anything larger. I would rather have a smaller car with premium features. We’re two tail-end baby boomers and the cool factor is way down on the list. That being said, if I get a chance to buy my wife’s employer’s car (335XI coupe) next year, I probably would buy it, just for the unmatchable highway driving experience it offers.
We’ve entered a time (and will it be in it for a very, very, very long period) in which even people who have a long history of work and dinero in the bank will still be looking several times before making large ticket purchases when they can get something completely satisfactory for less. And if you are new to the market, forget it. You’ll buy super cheap or used and scorn the fellow who throws money away of glitz.
The C class is about the size car people actually need, offers a good value for the buck, the
products themselves are diverse and attractive — and as others have correctly said, they are comparable to full-size cars of the past. All that plus the older driver doesn’t much care about appearing cool to passersby or seeming hip to his/her date. The Focus will replace the Fusion as Ford’s bread and butter. The Civic has always been Honda’s b&b. etcetcetc.
Trend isn’t the right word, since it sounds as if we’ll sometimee up ahead we’ll snap back to the good old days. Nope. They’re gone. For good, it says here. Too much is working against their return. Frugal is not only in, it will be inescapable.
Notice all the sudden choices in the B class.
I think it’s simple. Full sized cars are now too damned big to be reasurring and easy to operate. This wasn’t the case at all when older drivers were primarily dealing with sleepy rural roads or 55mph highways, but as the suburbs heat up traffic wise you can count on being hemmed in on both sides, having to parallel park and having to cut hard angles to even fit in shopping mall parking spaces. Anyone driving a full sized car or truck as a commuter vehicle is going to be subjected to a level of stress that smarter shoppers avoid (depending on neighborhood of course).
We’ve all seen various Buicks and Avalons inspiring homicidal thoughts and actions out on the highway. The thing we forget is that old people don’t like being in that position anymore than the rest of us enjoy having to harrass them into obeying the rules of the road (honestly, what else works?). They are doing the right thing for themselves and down-sizing.
As an aside of sorts, I put almost this exact same argument to my aged mother to get her out of full sized trucks and her beast of a wagon when I started getting terrified complaints from her neighbors about road wander and lack of attention driving. Problem immediately solved, in fact, it was really scary how 1 to 1 the relationship between oversized car and road hazard driving habits turned out to be. I didn’t even have to tell her that she was being unsafe and to work on it (that would’ve gone over well, she used to drive race-prepped austin’s back in the day), her driving fixed itself.
Re: the money argument. I don’t believe that there is actually any extra charge involved in getting a bigger car. You can buy anything used first of all, but even new the trade up to next vehicle size can be accomplished for the price of an optional engine. Get the 4 cylinder and that land yacht is yours for the price of a smaller car.
Why aren’t compact car buyers youthful? Partly, perhaps, because no buyers of new cars are. For all new vehicles, car buyers were reportedly 43 in 2007, 48 in 2008, and (perhaps) 52 in 2009. There are big variations between brands; the average age of a Buick buyer is about 70. It’s been an eternal truth that older people are the only ones who have any money. Perhaps this is because they are in their peak earnings years, and because their parents have died and passed along their estates.
Will older, more affluent people gravitate to compact cars? Absolutely – for the same reasons the less-affluent will switch to subcompacts. IMO, the rapidly-evolving subcompact class is a direct reflection of the current depression — a condition which will be permanent. This is the culmination of an established trend; our per capita new worth has declined over the last 10 years. Further, “The typical American household made less money last year than the typical household made a full decade ago.”
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/a-decade-with-no-income-gain/
This link puts the blame on income distribution (typical leftist cant from the NYT), but the more significant problem regarding our ability to buy new cars is that the income we do earn is being drained away by interest payments. Personal debt has exploded, rising 117% from 1999 to 2008.
The result of these ecnomic realities is that we are getting smaller cars for a poorer society, and they are being sold to the only people who can afford to buy them: older folks. The car companies will never pitch it this way, though. They will say subcompacts, compacts, and Mazda 5-sized minivans/peoplemovers are more practical, still luxurious, and more environmentally responsible. We’re never going to be told that our profligate society has taken several economic steps down, and we’re now having to make do with less.
FWIW:
http://genxfinance.com/2009/06/18/your-car-is-making-you-poor-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/
Good post!
An additional factor that I think is contributing to downsizing or youth not buying at all is the fact that we all have so much more “stuff” to spend our money on. Just look around…RVs, ATVs, SnoMobiles, power tools, garden gizmos, electronics, pizza/eating out, etc. etc.
People are just budgeting differently.
Growing up my parents (and all my friends’ parents) had a car they drove during the week (usually mid-sized) and a “special” car reserved for important events. This car usually a big Cadillac, Lincoln, or Mercedes was usually driven only on weekends.
Today’s C segment vehicles, especially the upper end, offer everything that drivers want at a fraction of the cost.
Why pay 50k when you can get what you want for 27K.
As for why younger drivers aren’t flocking to them…”it’s the economy stupid“.
Back in the day, in the late 80s, we had a retired cardiologist working for us as a consultant. He’d drive a modest (I think) Pontiac station wagon–one of the small ones, back and forth to work. Whenever we’d have a “work party” he’d show up with his wife in a big gold Cadillac. But he never used it as a daily driver. After he left the planet it probably only had a handful of miles on it.
I’ll chime in on the whole “I don’t think young people are buying new very often.” bandwagon. I’d love to see used car sales data broken out by age. Example: So a 55 year old bought an xB when it was new, sells after 80,000 miles, who buys it? Young family? College kid? Another 55+ year old who gives it to their kid who just got a license? That’s the data I would find highly relevant.
I’m 33 years old, in a job that makes almost $50,000 a year (gross) and I don’t ever plan to buy a new car if I can help it. I just figure the used cars that I buy will get nicer and nicer over the years.
BTW to me it seems like a high percentage of the older Americans buying new cars are female. Guess what size of vehicle they tend to buy as they age? Compacts. Whenever I see a big old luxurious anything, whether it’s an Escalade or a Town Car or an Avalon (in my part of the country – ie: the Desert Southwest) there’s roughly an 80% chance that a man who qualifies for the senior discount at Denny’s will be behind the wheel. YMMV.
I’ll only buy a new car that I can pay for cash up front.
That having been said, I paid cash for my used E46, and if I had saved up for a few more months, I could have bought something new that wasn’t an ultra cheap penalty box (an Impreza sedan or hatch with the 5-speed manual would have been nice if I had to have a vehicle that wasn’t pre-owned, or, with saving up a bit longer, Hyundai Genesis Coupe with a 2.0T and 6-speed).
Young people do not buy new cars very often, they buy used. It makes sense to design cars for the people who actually buy them.
What is the average of the Scion brand? It was supposed to be youthful all around.
I was 41 when I got my xB1 in 2005, and I think 40s was roughly the average age of a Scion buyer at that time. Toyota expected it to be in the 20s.
So when did the average teenager be able to afford any brand new car? My first 3 cars when I was in my teens and early 20’s were cheap affordable cars. That’s all my parents and then later I could afford. I was never able to afford a new car until I was working for several years after grad school (school isn’t cheap anymore as most are saddled with student loans, cc debt, etc.). Teenagers and young adults buy used cars or are given hand me downs from their parents (often with little choice in the matter – they are just happy to have a car/truck). The largest group buying cars are 30+ to geriatrics b/c teenagers or young adults don’t have any money and get by with what the need until they make enough money to get what they want.
So when did the average teenager be able to afford any brand new car?
I don’t know about “average” but I had a number of friends who came from families where parents felt it was their duty to pay for both college and a first new car.
I grew up comfortably middle class in the late 1990s, and while my parents paid for my undergraduate education (being an only child certainly helped) neither I or any of my friends (most from middle/upper middle class backgrounds) got new cars from the parents. 5-10 year old used cars (were the norm).
One acquaintance from high school got a new Outback after he graduated from college, but both of his parents are doctors, so their financial situation clearly allows discretionary spending on that scale.
Maybe things have changed in the 20 years since I moved to Canada from UK but, back in the old country, I didn’t know anyone who had a car bought for them by parents. In fact I only knew one kid in a school of over 2500 pupils that drove his own car. It was quite a culture shock to see school parking lots full of kids’ cars when I arrived here.
It would never enter the heads of any of my circle to expect any kind of help with a car purchase. We paid our own way.
I got hand me downs as my first two cars (both on their death beds – Olds Omega and Dodge 600 even though they were less than 100k miles on them) – I was grateful each time I made it without incident to wherever I was going.
My family was “middle class” but my parents could hardly afford a brand new car let alone one for me. I got scholarship for undergrad through sports so that helped out a lot. I think most kids who get brand new cars or a fully paid undergrad education are the exception (not the norm).
One point – with the collapse of the housing bubble your typical first time home buyer is going to have a lot more disposable income vs. 2006. Some of this may be spent on cars.
I’m not surprised by those demographics. Certainly the economic downturn is having a short-term impact, and one could also expect that gas prices will be an ongoing factor. For those of us who care about global warming, finding ways to reduce one’s carbon footprint is a consideration. But beyond all that, why wouldn’t an older person want a smaller car? If their kids are grown then who needs all of the extra room of a larger car?
I wonder if smaller, more basic cars are also benefitting from a backlash against too many bells and whistles on modern vehicles. You used to be able to avoid all of that stuff by getting a small truck, but nobody makes those any more. So many choices and yet so little real variety.
Ford may very well be correct in assuming that the American market is becoming more like Europe’s with regards to small car usage patterns.
The movement is to smaller cars, but not more basic ones. People still like their cars “loaded.” They just want them to use less gasoline and be easier to park.
Any demand for “back to basics” vehicles exists largely among a few posters on this site.
My Mom is a 57 year old professional. Before the 08 Mazda3 she has now, I got her a 05 Mazda6. She thought the 6 was a big car. At her age, she drives to and from work and on errands and stuff, but just isn’t as comfortable as she once was in big cars.
I think a lot of people, especially women, might be the same. Old people with average incomes, that aren’t “car people”, maybe just want something easy to drive, easy to park, and just need it to start everyday. Compacts are a no-brainer for them, and Buick has done their homework. I predict their Cruze-clone will sell well. Size matters.
You mean to say that the rest of the country has finally caught up to my family? Interesting. Years ago, my great aunt couldn’t figure out why anyone would buy a used bloated unreliable car when she could go out and buy a new small car that did everything she wanted for the same price. The things she did with that Tercel…
Back in the 1960s-1970s (dating myself, I know…..) plenty of affluent middle-aged people had compact cars. Back then they were almost all Type 1 and Type 3 Volkswagens until the early Datsuns and Toyotas entered the US market. Almost every affluent household had one of these compacts along with the big Cadillac, Buick, Suburban, or whatever. The compact usually became the daily driver and the one mom drove on non-carpool days.
These cars entered the used-car market and were bought by the less affluent and young folks buying their first car.
From an historical perspective, many older, more frugal people always bought compacts. What young person ever yearned for a Rambler American in 1957? Falcons, Corvairs, Valiants had 4-door and station wagon models to appeal to the miserly driver. These cars were eventually passed down to the youngsters, as high school parking lots in the late 60’s and early 70’s were filled with them. Compacts then, to a large degree, became younger driver transportation by default.
Fast forward 40 years and older consumers still purchase compact cars. I recall reading the large number of seniors that were buying the early Scions, xB, et. al. This is not a new phenomenon, then, but rather the norm.
Of course, as others have already mentioned, the majority of young people today simply cannot afford new cars no matter the size.
But more significantly, younger people don’t aspire to new cars quite the way the previous baby-boomer generation did. Who needs to impress a new girlfriend with any car, compact or otherwise, when 150 facebook friends has more status? Many young people today simply don’t care about driving, as it doesn’t represent the “freedom” an older generation embraced. Nowadays? Too much traffic. Too expensive. Too much hassle.
And so that is why Buick will succeed with the 2012 Verano compact luxury sedan pictured above while providing another answer to your question of why compacts aren’t more youthful.
They don’t need to be.
The simple answer is young people mostly buy used cars. I can’t think of anyone in high school who drove a new car. In college, one friend bought a new car because he commuted a long distance and worked in his dad’s plumbing company. Seems to me that new car ownership didn’t come until late 20s and those people bought for status. Later around 30, I’d see young families buying larger cars capable of transporting children.
Regarding older people and compact cars, my parents bought big used cars for decades until they started to worry that their car might leave them stranded. The mechanics they trusted were also retiring. They wanted basic reliable and economical transportation and my short mom vetoed any larger car she couldn’t see out of. They would have probably loved the current Toyota Corolla so long as it came with familiar Chevrolet badges, bench seats, crank up windows, and soft/slightly under-damped suspension tuning. Instead they bought a 2000 Chevrolet Malibu that had Toyota bland styling, crank up windows, interior by playskool, lousy reliability, and the security blanket of a new car warranty.
It’s a myth that the young twentysomething straight out of college is looking for the cheapest set of new wheels the can get. They are looking for an off lease BMW or a top of the line new car as much as they can afford – looking to impress I guess. Middle-aged people have made their silly money mistakes and realize that a car is just a car and want a more basic ride.
I see it all the time at work. Young people with sketchy credit and no money down are looking at $30k cars with $500 payments , while the 50 year old married couple with dual 6 figure incomes buys the compact car for cash.
I see it all the time at work. Young people with sketchy credit and no money down are looking at $30k cars with $500 payments, while the 50 year old married couple with dual 6 figure incomes buys the compact car for cash.
I think you’ve just described a big reason for the home foreclosure and personal bankruptcy pandemic that’s been sweeping across the US over the last few years. Until the entitlement mentality is broken, people will continue to be surprised when the repo man shows up to recover the asset whose payment is in arrears. I didn’t buy my first brand new car until I was 38.
I’ve no doubt that more affluent (read, older) customers are looking for smaller and smaller cars, particularly as gas prices climb higher. I do find it hilarious how GM apparently feels gilded Daewoos are going to appeal to those buyers over far more highly-regarded nameplates (and sorry SimpleSilvy, but that absolutely includes Ford.)
Oh, well. Bring on the Verona. Er, Verano.
I think a lot of these 50 somethings buy a compact for their children but register the car on their own name. Hence, the car is bought buy someone of 55 y/o, but is driven daily by a teenager. That doesn’t show up in the stats.
My thought exactly or for a 20 something un or under employed offspring or college student. The economy is rough but has hit sub 35 yr olds especially hard. Check out the unemployment figures for the young here.
Ed – those both sound surprisingly high, but you should ask the giver of the facts at Ford to give you the normalizing comparison as well, as in the average age of a new car buyer and the average income of a new car buyer.
those both sound surprisingly high
I agree. At least on the age part.
Ford’s own press releases say that the average age of an American Focus buyer is 50 while the average age of an American Fiesta buyer is 46. Searching around, I was only able to find one small car with a stated average buyer age of over 57 (Aveo). Most were between 48 and 55.
I’m surprised to read all of this…especially that some people on here are glad to “finally get EuroCars”, meaning our Fiestas, Astras and what is to come in the next years.
As we are facing extremly high gas prices since years, just as y’all are going to in this decade, plus multiple-taxing I will tell you my “Euro”-story.
Me being 21 years old driving a Peugeot 207 1.6l 120hp “Sport”. I got that car because mom wanted me to be safe and well…dad said “go and pick a good one that’ll take you through college and many years to come”. I decided to get the Peugeot while a Fiat Punto, a Volkswagen Polo and a Mazda 2 were also on the list. The Peugeot offered Dual-Climate-Control, all that MP3-iPod-USB-stuff, rain sensor, automatic Headlights, ABS, ASR and ESC, 6 airbags, was the largest car (4,03m = some 13.2 ft.) and therefore roomy yet fits in our German “Altstädte”, very good built quality (yep..in a FRENCH car!) and to top it all, the 120hp engine was all new in 2007 and develloped and assambled by BMW (ak. the Mini Cooper). 0 – 60 in 9.6 seconds, top speed on the Autobahn 210 km/h (=130mph). Not too noisy until you go faster than 100mph (Now…even in Germany there aren’t many places left to do that). Concerning gas mileage I got everything between 61mpg (A/C off, windows closed, high tire pressure, no radio, etc.) to 23mpg (put the pedal to the metal on a winter day…), averaging about 38mpg which is pretty much what the manufacturer promised me. Pricing for all of this WITHOUT taxes was $17.500 USD. There is a reason why the 207 and its antecessors 206 and 205 are and where the most sold cars in Europe in many years.
The Fiat (in 3-door configuration only a 4 seater – and I like my friends. I really do), the Polo (too small, too little power (105 hp is max, unless you get the GTI => hello insurance), poor reliability and REDICULOUS pricing) and the Mazda (well…over here Mazda is like…owning a Renault in the US. No parts, no style, no nothing) just didn’t work for me but they do very well for others.
Why wouldn’t older people just as much enjoy all these key factors as I do? In fact, my dad, 64 years old, let’s his Lexus (yep, we AREN’T the “typical German” car buying family) in the garage to take mine for a ride cause it handle’s so well yet is so economical at the same time. And they call me up to transport their furniture/washing machine/garden-stuff since the stupid Lexus (no – I LOVE it) won’t fold down its “I carry a battery pack with me” seats. He honestly thought about selling his car and get a Peugeot 207 1.6 HDi DIESEL, a car a third of the price he owns right now, because he said, he couldn’t find that much of an overall difference except for power (which he won’t use) and leather seats (which are available in the 207, just like in many competitors, as well), while adding a glass roof, A BORD COMPUTER THAT KNOWS GERMAN (shame on you, TOYOTA!) and a 30GB-HDD-NavSystem Lexus won’t offer. He could even get a dashboard that has leather, cornering lights and if he did want fun, there’d be a 180hp version. That’s why old people like “small” cars”, too.
The old LeSabre/LaCrosse is not as easy to tow behind the motor home as a small Saturn.
The Prius brings in 55-65 year olds and I hope GM fills the domestic car gap with the Verano. I got 15 years until retirement and wouldn’t mind being caught in a hot rod front wheel drive Buick with limited slip and over 300 horsepower getting close to 40 mpg.
Judging by the parking lot of the local retirement community, 80+ year-olds no longer buy large cars. With the exception of one stalwart with a mid-90s Town Car, most have switched over to Insights, Focii, Priii, Cobalts, Foresters or Legacies. The cute Austrian couple have a diesel Golf. Younger people aren’t buying much if at all but “The Greatest Generation” is and that’s raising the average age more than anything.
Exactly just who bought the Falcon, Rambler, Chevy II, Nova, Tempest, Dart, Torino, Custom 500, Granada or Monte Carlo? None of these were “luxury” or particularly big for their day. It’s always been thus. The most popular segments have been the compacts and the intermediates. Middle of the road in terms of features and abilities and not too expensive.
The Mazda3 deserves recognition for being one of the first to prove that “premium compact” isn’t an oxymoron! When it was introduced in 2004, all ‘s’ models offered Xenon headlamps, pop-up NAV screen and leather interior as options. In 2005, automatic climate control, Bose audio system, heated seats and mirrors and rain-sensing wipers were added to the option list. Even the 2011 model, in s Grand Touring trim, is one of the few compacts with a power-adjustable driver’s seat, Bose audio and Keyless Entry/Push-Button Start. It also has class-exclusive “Adaptive Front Lighting System” (AFS) which turns the Bi-Xenon HIDs into curves based on steering angle. A 2011 Grand Touring with 5-speed A/T and all the Tech options stickers for a almost $26k exactly (4-door), so it’s hardly cheap….but it looks, drives and feels better than any mid-sizer (short of the Mazda6) and is well worth the price! =)
I have a feeling that the 2012 Focus will be a huge hit and a substantial number of them will be the “Titanium” trim-level. A fully loaded Titanium 4-door sedan stickers for $27,640! For that price, it can parallel park itself and has voice-activated Navigation. The ‘Parking Package’ seemed ridiculous on a car of this size at first, but the driver will be too pre-occupied trying to use the MyFord Touch (Ford’s iDrive nightmare) to worry with menial tasks like parking….
Check out the review section. I gave the Mazda3 Grand Touring a big thumbs up – except for the demonic grin.
Ronnie- I read your review of the 2011 Mazda3 s Grand Touring 5-door the day it was posted! It immediately caught my eye because your test car was my favorite MZ3 color- Celestial Blue. I plan to upgrade from my 2006 Mazda3 s 5-door to a new one within the next year and THAT is my color!
Good news in terms of the styling- the Mazda3 lineup is getting a ‘face-lift’ for the 2012 model year!!! It is expected to be an early release during the summer, which is about three months earlier than normal. I’m very anxious to see what they do to the design of the front-end!
“Will older, richer drivers continue to downsize?” Hell, we all will. Look at a map of Africa. Note where the disturbances are. Gas prices, driven by speculators and social unrest, are going to reach numbers we’ve never seen here before.
People are buying compact cars because, well, they don’t have any money and oil is expensive. It’s as it should be. Neither of those will improve, by the way, they are likely to get worse.
Mind you, buying any new car now may very well be throwing money down the toilet.
I have a 2007 Accord with about 50,000 miles and I plan to drive it until it literally dies on the road. By that time, I expect some good offerings out there in the hybrid/diesel areas, or even improvements in standard gasoline engines. And we should know how the current crop of new compact cars is holding out.
On top of that, most people should plan on driving their cars at least 50% less than they do. If you live an area where you can bike or take buses/trains at least some of the time, all the better.
Of course this is just my opinion. As you can tell I’m not someone who likes wasting time or money. Life is too short.
I bought a year old 01 corolla about eight months before I got out of the military. This was right about the time gas started to inch up past 1.65/gallon. How I wish gas was still that expensive… I did not know what the future held in terms of gas prices and my income.
Anyhow, this is the exact size car I wanted. But my ideal car would have been corolla sized, RWD, and a 300 HP V8. Oh, and manual windows and door locks, and no auto climate control system.
Previously, i was driving a 72 Riviera GS 455. Gas was 0.85/gallon on base when I bought it. Surprisingly, after I installed a high performance Mallory ignition system, mileage jumped up to 16 (from 14). And that was freeway, around town, 30 mph or 100 mph. Mileage never varied.
So fast forward to now. Still driving the corolla. It is in excellent shape, good mileage, as reliable as the sun rising everyday and logically there is zero reason for me to upgrade it. Because I just cant justify replacing a well running, reliable vehicle that is in near excellent shape for being ten years old and having 97K miles on it.
But I still want a new (weekend ride) vehicle maybe slightly larger than the corolla, rwd, and 300 HP. But it seems only the BMW 335i is pretty close to that. But until they get rid of the standard run-flats, and no dipstick garbage I’m not even going to waste a salesman’s time driving one. Plus, after ten years of minimal up keep costs on my corolla, I’m not ready for a prissy german bitch.
So I’m debt free except for a mortgage that is less than I was paying in rent, once tax benefits are taken into consideration. I have a pretty decent income, and very low overhead. The verano looks like a good senior citizen mobile. Not interested.
I would drive any one of the german performance compacts, if and only if, they did not require 80 dollar oil changes at the dealer, and they were in reality more reliable than your typical garbage mobile from GM, FordMoCo, and Chrysler. Although I hear Fords are supposed to be pretty reliable now a days.
So what is someone in my situation supposed to do who wants a high performance, rwd, compact car with a V8 (or at least the equivalent of a V8) and not succumb to maintenance and upkeep expensive German rides?
Dynasty:
If you can afford it, look into the Infiniti G. Less expensive and more reliable than a 3 series.
Go buy your Rivera back if you sold it. It’s just a weekend car. And honestly Ford has made great strides in reliability. Go get a CPO Mustang GT, no I won’t be one of the new 5.0s but dang the last years of the 4.6 weren’t anything to sneeze at.
stickmaster:I find the g series infinities to bear too strong of a resemblance to the sentra.. From the infinitis I’ve seen close up, I haven’t been all that impressed. Sat in a co-workers g-coupe and was pretty let down. Found the materials to be sub-par for what this vehicle costs.
However, I will eventually probably make it to a dealer to at least check out the g37 sedan.
Educator(of teachers)Dan: Ha Ha. The riviera is long gone. Sold it to a man in El Paso. I live up in Seattle now. That car is waaaaay too big for the big city. You can read about it here in this installment of curb side classic: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/05/curbside-classic-1972-boattail-buick-riviera/
My comment is all the way at the bottom.
I am curious about the new ’11 mustang gt. Seriously though, I don’t really think the mustang suits me. I will drive it though. But I really don’t think it is a car I would resonate with for a long term relationship. I have been wrong about these types of things in the past however.
All in all, I’ve driven several vehicles in the past few years, some just out of curiosity and others as a serious contender as a daily drive.
Subura Legacy GT sedan with the turbo four I believe. Car drove extremely heavy, and was slow (too me)
1999 Lexus SC400. I felt like an old man driving it. Plus it was gold, which I didn’t like. Also, the car was being sold by a man from the Ukraine. I had a sketchy feeling about it. There was an oil change filter on the windshield dated about two years prior with a date and mileage when the next oil change was due. It was only about 2k miles less than what the odometer said. According to him, the car was his daily driver. I can’t imagine a daily driver only being driven 2k miles in 2 years. There were other things too, and basically the car was not me.
Pontiac G8 GT. It was okay. Interior was lackluster, and styling sort of bland in a pontiac sort of way. Didn’t really feel anything special about it. But, had the salesman with me when I drove it, so I couldnt really have too much fun.
Lexus IS 350. It was quick, handled pretty well and was smooth. But after I drove home, pretty much just remembered the car as if I was driving by remote control.
CR-Z. Lamest car I’ve ever driven. Build quality seemed pretty tight though. And quality materials in the interior.
Dodge Challenger. By far the only vehicle out the bunch to capture my imagination. However, it is too big, bloated, and heavy. Only really looks good in black.
In general one of my biggest pet peaves with the american muscle car is their outlandishness. The fake hood scoops, spoilers, big stripes running down the middle of the car. Stripes on the side of the car telling the world in big 400 font letters what model car you bought. I think the mustang even has dealer installed options for fake side air inlets at the back of the vehicle.
Overall. In every single instance, when I’ve left the dealer and drove away in my 01 corolla, I realize just how good of a car it is. Sure, it is a far cry from a performance vehicle. But it is fairly quick, lightweight, e-a-s-y to drive, good freeway power for passing, especially in the 3000 to 3500 rpm range, and has not had one problem in the nine years that I’ve owned it. I guess that has pretty much added up to being worth far more than the payments these vehicles would have straddled me down with.
I pretty much expect to be let down, now…….. Being as I’m used to a corolla, I just find it hard to believe I’m expecting too much.
I live in a pretty desirable urban neighborhood, and the typical cars I see in the area are Subarus, Saturns, Scions and Hondas, especially the Civic. At one time, there were three current-generation Civic sedans on my block, all the same color blue. One of the Civic drivers moved away, and the other traded in for a dark red one. Of the remaining Civic drivers, one is male and one is female, they are both in their late 50s, and they both have well-paying jobs that would surely allow them to drive a more expensive car. Many people around here don’t have driveways, or when they do, they’re often very narrow, and hardly anyone has a garage. I think the small size of these compact cars is an asset in this environment, and I also think people don’t want to attract attention to themselves by driving an expensive car that would be parked out in the open.
Aside from the urban-dwellers, there are also some people who just prefer to drive a smaller car. I’ve known many older women who fall into this category, including my grandmother. She would never consider a car any larger than this class, because they’re just too big for her to comfortably maneuver.
Of course, the economy and gas prices play a role, but to me it seems to be a bit overstated in some of the comments. I do know a couple of people who have traded in SUVs for compact cars, but usually I see people trading larger SUVs for smaller crossovers, or smaller SUVs for midsize cars. I think there’s just a segment of the population that has always been looking for practical, affordable transportation, regardless of their age or income.
I’ll chime in and say that older people buy a smaller car because they screwed up and bought too big of a house when they were younger. There’s no social shame in buying a house over 1500 sq feet like there is in owning a V8 SUV, both which are overkill and have long payments.
btw, I’m not so sure this demographic doesn’t want a luxury car or SUV. My wife usually comments that older couples in those Civics and Corollas apparently gawk at 30-something me when I’m driving around in a flagship. The fact that I wear a suit probably rubs it in, but it doesn’t happen when I’m driving the Camry.
@ Waftable..really??? Most older folks that I know buy smaller cars because of the relative intelligence they show in how they spend their hard-earned money, not because they screwed up. Case in point…my mother. She is comforably middle-class, has a decent job, and my parents saved religiously to set themselves up for retirement (my father’s early and untimely death put a kink in those plans). She flat out owns her modest home, as well as a small rental home in Florida…both completely paid for. She has no debt, to include her 2003 Toyota Corolla that she paid cash for when it was purchased new. It now has 81,000 miles on it and will most likely occupy her garage for another two or so years before she makes a decision on her final car. She certainly is not gawking at you in your flagship, and could, quite honestly, give two whiffs. The Corolla fits well because it does what it needs to for her…gets her back and forth to work reliably, with good fuel economy and didn’t break the bank to buy. Did she “screw” up? Quite the contrary…she, like many, many other older folks simply are being smart with their money and don’t need to feel inferior to anybody, driving anything. Her bank account and financial security mean more to her than any “hot” car that could be parked in the driveway…
I’m a college student who volunteers at a veteran’s hospital, so I get a lot of exposure to what old people love. Old people barely drive at all and like their cars easy to park. It makes no sense when you’re living with just your SO and your kids have already gone off and had kids on their own to buy a big SUV or whatever. First Juke I saw was at the valet of the hospital, a couple in their 70s bought it, and everyone waiting for their ride in wheelchairs was oh and ahing at how small and tidy it was. Wasn’t the Juke marketed to 20 year olds?
By the way, I can’t wait for the Scion iQs to start pulling up to the valet. All the old people are going to go nuts for it!
Aside from the economic reasons— when you’re a young adult at the start of your career, you don’t want to drive a kids car. You get enough doubters just because of your age that you try to look as adult as possible. When your 57 and solidly successful, you don’t need to impress anyone, and you know that a low car payment & good mileage is a lot better than lots of horse power.
I’ve always thought that concentrating on the youth car market was a dumb idea; there’s two kinds of 20 somethings— the ones who can’t afford a new car, and the ones who can but don’t want to look like a 20 something driving a kids car.
When Daniel Heraud was publishing the annual Road Report car guides, he included the demographic stats with male vs female uptake, average age, % married, % college degree, and income. So the information is out there.
Looking at the 1999 guide, I’d say the pattern of consumption for the mass market seems to be that households tend to buy a new car that’s one half their annual incomes. So if a household takes in $75000 a year, they shop for $38,000 cars.
It makes for some other interesting insights at the upper end. 1999 Diablo and 550 Maranello buyers (age 58 and 62) are almost as old as Buick buyers. Lexus LS400 owners ($172k/yr) out-earn S-Class ($120k), XJ ($130k), and 7-series ($150k) buyers. Jaguar XK buyers ($240k/yr) outearn F355 ($160k) and Diablo ($200k) purchasers.
From what I’ve read about Bentleys, Rolls Royce, and Land Cruisers, net worth is a more reliable indicator of purchase consideration.
“…households tend to buy a new car that’s one half their annual incomes. So if a household takes in $75000 a year, they shop for $38,000 cars.”
I consistently hear this, but this rule of thumb does not hold up for many income ranges. Maybe it works prectically for the $40-$60k households, but certainly not for anything higher. Much comes down to risk appetite, but IMO a $200k 2-person household should be getting their heads examined if they’re buying two $50k cars. To each his own
Looking at the 1999 guide, I’d say the pattern of consumption for the mass market seems to be that households tend to buy a new car that’s one half their annual incomes. So if a household takes in $75000 a year, they shop for $38,000 cars.
Wow. No wonder people are regularly losing their cars to the repo man. Even for a new car, I target much, much lower than 1/2. Owning more than one car would affect that percentage, wouldn’t it?
Way below that myself as well. As I’ve grown older my willingness to spend more on a car has become less even as my income has grown. I’m in the market and I’m only looking at new/used cars that are around 15-20% of my income.
Just curious – how long do you then keep your car? Does it depreciate then by half or more? What is your target mileage for replacing it?
Hmmm … Cash For Clunkers didn’t skew the data did it ….
The reasons are probably quite simple. Young people are driving these cars, but not buying them. Mom and Dad are making the purchase as they have A) a decent credit rating, B) money in the bank, C) want to get cheaper insurance, D) all of the above. Coupled with the fact that these smaller vehicles are much better than similar cars two decades ago and the great fuel economy, and many older buyers would want one too.
Maybe people are finally realising they don’t need 3750 pounds of car for carrying just one person. That would be great news for conserving oil and helping reduce the deficit.
Most young people don’t have the money to buy a new car. Unemployment and underemployment amoungst those 25 and younger is at least three times the national average.
Those lucky few who do land high paying jobs buy something nicer because they are image/fun conscious.
I’ll put my two-cents’ worth on this. Look at the world economy – there are very few jobs for young people anywhere that pays a living wage. Look at how people are rioting in one country after another. When the extensive social safety net here begins to fray, you’ll see the same, except here in America, people are armed to the teeth, so be very concerned as the worlds’ system races to the bottom. Cars, new or used will be the least of peoples’ worries.
Most cars I’ve owned have been used. Forty years ago, I swore I’d never pay more than $1000.00 for a car, then $2000.00, then…NEW! My 1976 Chevy C-20 cost me $4250.00 in November, 1975. Then marriage, family, back to used and so on depending on my need and resources.
Unbelievable!
Do you think people are born old?
The people buying compact cars, always bought compact cars!
But when they started buying compact cars – they weren’t old!
Instead – they were young!
This generation is still buying the same cars, but now they are old!
The “C” market are cars for people without more than two children. In this day of padded safety seats for everyone under eight years of age, these cars are TOO DAMN small for families where the parents are still making babies!
Younger people have to have larger cars for their children, that is, if they have genitalia and know how to use it beyond entertainment purposes.
This means child-bearing drivers are not in this market.
They used to be in this market in the 1960s when this market was created for families with a full sized car and needed a car for mom. It was a second car. At that time, second cars were spares, so they were not luxurious. But the people who sat in the back of those early compact cars, stayed with compact cars when they grew up. NOW they are OLD and are still driving compact cars.
That is why the C market is dominated by old people, why it wasn’t dominated by old people twenty years ago, and why they were simple machines forty years ago. SAME people, THEY got older!
That’s all!
The article says that average age of a compact car buyer is 57 years old. In 1960, this person would have been six years old, and 16 years old in 1970. So I doubt that these buyers are the same people who bought VW Beetles, Plymouth Valiants and Ford Falcons in the 1960s.
I covered that.
The kids who rode in the backseat of their dad’s Rambler and Valiant grew up buying Accords, Camrys, and other compacts when they married and birthed their 2 children.
So, they have diluted the “average buyer age” and raised it to 57 when you combine them with those parents are still driving C market segment cars. The average age is 57 – it is not the only age. However, that average is still much older than it once was forty or even, twenty years ago.
You might want to inform the Europeans that the average US C-car is too small. They seem to be quite able to fit families & shopping into sub compacts and would consider the cars listed here as midsized.
I looked a few years ago and the Europeans seem to have smaller car seats. Just as safe and roomy for the child but apparently engineered so the seat takes less space in the car. (???) Any got more insight?
I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the American design committee decided that the bigger, bulkier car seats looked safer to American consumers who just buy what is on the shelf, not really looking into car seat design and what else they could have gotten from other places than their favorite big box retailer.
We did just fine with a first gen CR-V when our kids were small. Still driving it with beyond car seat kids. My sister and other folks near us felt compelled to buy quite large vehicles because their car seats were large and they carried large strollers and alot of baby paraphernalia everywhere they went. My sister recently announced that she’s going for something even larger – a Suburban. When we need to carry eight people we just drive two cars. That happens once or twice a year?
We also put our car seat into the rear of our VW Cabrio. It worked. Just. Took a ten hour vacation trip to Florida this way. No room for a second child though we were comfortable. Luckily only had one then.
Second hand cars are where it’s at, kids.
Why spend ~$16k for a new ugly Focus (not the new new one), overpriced Corolla or torque-less Civic with pokey motors when you can buy a 2-3 year old Camcordima, GTI, Civic Si, etc… with less that 15k miles, more robust motors in most cases and a myriad of options for the same price or less?
“Given that TTAC has questioned the viability of the Buick brand for having an average buyer age in the low-to-mid 60s”
I don’t understand why this is a problem. The U.S. population, and specifically the “baby boomer” generation, is getting older all the time. There are plenty of 60ish year old people out there to buy cars. Is an 18-34 year old’s money somehow worth more than a 60 year olds? The old argument is that they’re old and will die off soon. The problem with that argument is that just about everyone is going to get old sooner or later. Why not cater to their needs?
Is an 18-34 year old’s money somehow worth more than a 60 year olds? The old argument is that they’re old and will die off soon.
And it’s true. That Boomer you sold a car to might come back once or twice, and those cars might or might not be more modest than the ones they replace. On the other hand, the Millenial you just sold a subcompact to is due back at least four or five times, and likely into bigger-ticket cars.
This was epitomized by the Acura Integra/RSX: yeah, it was costly and probably low-margin, but it appealed to the young buyer who, in 2-5 years, would be back for a TSX or TL, and then again for an MDX, and again for another TL, etc. Honda’s killing of it cut Acura off at the knees because those buyers have no bottom rung, or other marques bottom rungs are better options.
For what it’s worth, I’m 60, a very proud baby-boomer, but not part of the “I’m better-than-you-crowd-because-I-grew-up-in-the-50’s-and-60’s mindset. I may buy one more new car, but with things as they are, I’m being very careful with my resources and prefer to remain almost debt-free, recent purchase of a 2007 MX5 notwithstanding. I see both sides of this argument, whereas years ago, when things were much different, GM had it figured out with five divisions, you’d start out with a Chevy and eventually wind up with a Cadillac. Not so anymore. Too many boomers have already retired even in their 50’s – I’m not that fortunate, and it’s not the “good old days” anymore and the future looks ominous, to say the least. Psar said it well when he said there are so many other options now. Me? I’ll probably stick with a good old Chevy, as I want a fairly simple car and my ’04 Impala base is simple by today’s standards as far as content goes, but I’m probably considered a geezer by some. Dying off? Not me, as I will be around forever!
“Compact” cars are quite a bit bigger and plusher than they used to be. Basically, the nameplates grew in bulk and luxury in lockstep with the people who bought them.
I had observed this, unscientifically. The reality is that older empty-nesters can get buy with smaller cars and tend to value economy over performance. Most Prius drivers I see are 50+. Young people, as has been noted, buy used. Often used C-segment cars, or smaller sporty cars (TSX, GTi etc.). Some of them are eco-focused, but many value performance and all value gadgets. Older people tend to avoid the SUVs, and the small cars are now nice enough that they make perfect sense for them. Easy to maneuver and park with arthritic hands. Saw a brand new Corolla yesterday piloted by a couple that looked 70+. Those in their 30’s and 40’s with kids, buy bigger cars, SUVs, minivans, or luxury cars.
I should be in the new luxury car demographic, but I find it unconscionable to spend more than $30k on a car. Yet I have expensive taste, so I buy used exclusively. My 2007 BMW 3 series purchased in 2010 had a full 3 years and 60k of warranty. $24k. New cars are for suckers.
Old people today grew up with small cars. The Grand Marquis, Park Avenue, and 98 crowd is mostly off the road.
If you want to see young people back in compact cars, then you would need to build a compact car that can seat three across the back seat in padded child seats, which are the width of an adult. There needs to be a wagon version. It should not cost more than $22,000.
I would love to see a new Valiant, Nova or Rambler that can do this. What we have today are cars in this class that can only seat four comfortably. They do not offer bench seats. They have floor mounted shifters. As a father with three pre-schoolers, today’s compact cars cannot fit my family, and definately not when my wife and I have more children.
When you eliminate all the growing families from an auto market, you will find that the average age within that market to be much higher. When you take into consideration the auto history of those buying these cars, then you can discover another reason why the average age is much higher.
+1 on the child seats! If you’re young and have the money to buy new*, you’re going to get something that can fit a family. And a compact will not fit a car seat. We have a Cherokee and can only fit our daughter’s infant seat in the middle. Friends have a 2nd gen 4-runner and they could only fit their son’s infant carrier and now his toddler car seat if they run one of the front seats all the way forward. These are much, much bigger vehicles than a C segment sedan! When we had our daughter we gave up a GMC Sonoma and bought a used XJ (the British kind) which fits the car seat with lots of room, but is decidedly not a compact.
*If you’re young and can afford to buy a new car, chances are you already know how to think long term (should I go out with friends tonight or finish my homework? Should I major in something with a job market or the one that will help me get into Tappa Kegga Day?)
I am 67 and just bought a Ford Fiesta! The thing is perfect for me – it has all the bells and whisles I like (phone, directions, etc), is comfortable and economical and – please God – well built and reliable. I traded it for a mid-sized SUV that was giving me 18 miles per gallon (they’re claiming 38 for the fiesta), went through a set of tires every 2 year and had more space than I could possibly use. It wasn’t even a matter of price. I looked at a Mini, an Audi, a Honda and a Lexus and none were that much more appealing. I already went through my PMS when I bought my Porche that spent more time at the mechanics home than mine! I guess I’m the next generation of car buyers??
The first time i bought new was when i was 27. My career was started, the pay was good, i had some money on the side. Otherwise, the idea of a new car would have been rejected. The young people i work with seems to go overboard on their needs, but it is their money…The value seems to be in lightly used recent car, that’s were i’ll look the next time around. As for the old people, i see a lot of them driving familly oriented fat product like CUV and minivan and i just can’t understand why…Worst is they complain about gas price! And that Buick looks way better than the cruze but the color is so wrong….who wants to drive a brown car……
I think many here have already mentioned the reasons for the C segment having such an old age. Cars are bloating in price and size while the economy and discretionary spending are down. My mother’s old 1987 civic had nothing more than a cassette radio and manual windows, mirrors, and doors. I’ve seen a current civic of a friend that has leather, navi, and power everything. It pretty much is a luxury car. My parents are definitely contemplating downsizing from a Camry v6 to a Corolla or Civic since has prices are up and the size difference isn’t much of an issue anymore. In the mean time, many of the people in their twenties are split between two groups. We are either on our own and struggling to find the money to pay expenses or live at home and can afford Acuras, lexus, and BMWs due to a lack of other expenses. The trend seems to be moving to cities where we don’t need cars. Hell, most of the women I date are more impressed by my iphone than the car I drive. Unless I drive a luxury plate no one cares anyway. I just don’t see the point in buying new when an off-lease used model offers me a nicer car with pretty similar reliability? Plus, a cheaper car means more beer money and cab rides home from the bar.
I’m 19, and when I purchased a car last year I didn’t even consider buying new. I have a part-time job while going to school and could have afforded a decent new car, but why would I want to finance a small, slow Fiesta/Civic for $20K when I could pay cash for a low-mileage, spacious, and smooth ’95 MB E320 Coupe, a W124 from the high point of Mercedes engineering?
The maintenance isn’t cheap, and the MPGs are half that of a modern subcompact, but I sure as hell enjoy driving my unique, payment-free Mercedes a lot more than I would a new compact.
but why would I want to finance a small, slow Fiesta/Civic for $20K when I could pay cash for a low-mileage, spacious, and smooth ’95 MB E320 Coupe, a W124 from the high point of Mercedes engineering?
Ahhh, I love the spirit of youth. Experience has taught me that if you cannot afford a new German car, you really can’t afford a used one….
$600 wiper motors, that’s why.
My parents owned a used W126 S-class for 10 years, and it never cost more than $1500/yr to maintain, and some years less than that.
Payments and depreciation on a new S-class would have worked out to be much more than that.
That is a lot less than payments on an econo car for a year, but still pretty high in maintenance costs.
In the nine years I’ve owned my car.. 2 sets of tires, 1 brake job, and three 30K tune ups have not been much more than $1500. The key is to own a car for longer than a few years, and pretty soon it starts to look like money in the bank. Assuming it is reliable and not always at the shop.
A 15 year old Mercedes? Not so sure.
But I cant judge though. I had my eyes on a 79 300SD. Drove it. Liked it. Wanted to think about it. Decided to purchase it. Called the owner back and it turned out the oil cooler leaked and the engine came to a grinding halt.. all within a couple days of me test driving it. Man! I lucked out that time. My age was 23.
That was a cool car, quick for its size and weight, and in pretty good shape (new mexico), and I would still like that vintage 300SD, but they are all pretty high mileage by now.
@ genuine…because many people (such as my mother) have NO desire to worry about the maintenance and upkeep of a 15 year old car. And who says that somebody is automatically financing said car? And sure, while the E320 will do 0-60 in 7 seconds (and the Hyundai Elantra only in 8.7), the fuel economy, reliability, features and warranty more than make up for the relative panache that might come from driving around a 15 year old MB. I can think of many people that place a much higher value on that versus the “privilege” of seeing the three-pointed star out over the hood.
How was the “middle class devastated by the bubble burst”?
Mattpete just one question – which planet are you from?
Joss,
I don’t agree with all that Mattpete says in his post but his general point that MOST people are relatively unaffected is quite unassailable. If you’ve still got a job and can afford your commitments, which is the case for most people, what is the problem?
Sure, there are a lot of people who HAVE been affected and most businesses have experienced some negative issues so, of course, when you look at the big picture it is easy to think all is doom and gloom.
Overall, though, the recession has just been a blip. I’m not saying it hasn’t had some far reaching effects but, for MOST people when we look back at this period 10 or 15 years from now it will most likely not have had TOO much effect on most of us.
So I think referring to a “devastated middle class” is a bit melodramatic.