Marc writes:
As a long time reader and a new financial advisor, I am seeking advice from you and your readers concerning choices for a second-hand automobile. Here are the constraints:
1) $10,000 or less
2) Would prefer avoiding GM & Chrysler
3) 4-doors required (for clients and/or two under-five children)
4) Reasonable annual maintenance
5) Sporty OK but not flashy — message is ”prudently successful” not ”mid-life crisis on the client’s dime”
6) I’m a 47 year-old, married, 2 children, in southwestern Connecticut.
As a starting point, I see this as two basic options — Audi/BMW/Acura on the sporty side or Mercedes sedan on the prudent side. Which cars(year/make/model) do you or your readers suggest I consider? Thanks!
Steve Answers:
I suggest you take as much equity in the prior owner as you do the car. ‘Sporty’ cars like the ones you mentioned are very sensitive to wear and maintenance. German luxury cars that typically hit the 10k echelon are about 7 to 9 years old and have about 80k to 140k on them. Depending on the model.
I know there are a lot of fans of the 3-Series, A4 and C-Class. Well at least the first two. However the 5-Series, A6 and E-Class may be better options. But I won’t recommend them either because I find most European cars from the 2001 to 2003 era to be absolute buggy pieces of crap. Cheap to maintain they are not.
My choice of imaginary frugality and fun would be a 2005 Nissan Altima with the 3.5 Liter V6. You would likely have one with around 70k to 80k. I would opt straight for one from a prior owner (not the dealer) and have it examined at an independent shop. Other folks may recommend the Mazda 6 or even an earlier gen Ford Fusion. Both are fine cars. I don’t care. At least I’m not recommending a Grand Marquis with Flowmasters. In the end you should test all three along with a few others and see which one fits your version of ‘prudently successful’.
Sajeev Answers:
Damn son, now I gotta recommend a Grand Marquis with flowbastards? Maybe not, even if it’s more reasonable than believing a $10,000 budget gets you a “prudent” Mercedes Benz product.
So go for the unknown, forgotten luxury tools of the trade. The older Acura TL/RL bodystyles are a great fit, even with some vintages suffering from automatic transmission concerns from their high(er) horsepower V6 engines. The Jaguar S-type and Lincoln LS certainly fit the price point and performance/style quotient, but that’s a slippery slope when considering upkeep. Perhaps a Lincoln Zephyr (not MKZ, too spendy) or a Hyundai Azera/XG after a little de-badging? Probably not.
My pick? The Lexus ES, 2001 or older. This body style gets better with age, and doesn’t bring about the obligatory Camry references. Yet, under the financial advisor approved skin, this is still a cheap and cheerful Camry from the good old days of Toyota. Find one with service receipts for plenty of oil changes for a sludge-proof reputation and you will be set for years to come.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
How about a new ’10 Accord at 0.9% plus $1,200 cash back? You could easily spend 2k a year keeping a BMW or Audi with 100k miles on it on the road. It might be a lot cheaper to just get a new Accord.
(Don’t bother with a used Accord they don’t discount them enough to make it worthwhile.)
Also, a 47 year old financial advisor in a new Accord says prudent. A 47 year old financial advisor in a used 3-series says desperate.
If it comes down to out of pocket, a new Accord will cost way more than a pre-owned 3 series and is far from sporty. Accord says cheap, 3 series says sporty. Go E46 well below 10k and robust, highly doubt you would spend 2k a year to maintain, I haven’t.
If it comes down to out of pocket, a new Accord will cost way more than a pre-owned 3 series and is far from sporty
Really? And how much will it cost, on average, to take a 3 series from 7 years and 100k miles to 12 years and 170 miles?
How much will it cost to keep the Accord on the road from new to 5 years 75k miles?
We're talking total cost of ownership not only sticker.
I have a contest going in my own driveway. Honda Element vs. BMW 325iT both ’03’s both cost 17k both have 85K miles. Both bought pre-owned at 36k miles. As of date the Honda is losing the cost of ownership contest, ease of maintenance contest ( I work on my own stuff when I can), pleasure to own contest, favorite car contest, Overall integrity of design contest and is most likely to be voted off the island. To be clear I am not comparing the driving experiences, that would be unfair but I am evaluating each car within its intended strengths. For example, the Honda is a great design as a small battle wagon, this it does well. But it needs struts-very expensive fix and something I cannot do due to complexity. Its excessively loud, window switches broke (expensive), door lock broken (expensive), interior plastic flying off, rust showing, check engine lights on, has gone into limp mode twice for no reason that could be found needs about 2k in work. BMW needed Control arm bushings, $150 fixed myself, nothing else needed as of date. I have driven three BMW’s to over 150K, one over 300k. I will say BMW wins your challenge
dswilly,
both have 85K miles.
That’s the part you missed. He wants to buy a BMW at 100k miles and take it to 170k. There is no possible way you can even hope to argue that taking an Accord from new to 75k will cost anything but a small fraction of what it will cost to take a BMW from 100k to 175k.
No way. Here is how I see it. ’10 Accord New, equipped nicely say 23k plus interest and maintenance.
04 325i 100k 8-10k. In my experience maybe 3-5k maintenance if you find the indie mechanic…..maybe?
About 10k on the table for turbo’s, nitrous maybe a monster truck for fowl weather.
My, my. Anyone who does not think it will cost at least $2000 to keep a ten year old German car on the road has certainly never done it!
That Accord is a screaming deal!
dswilly,
I’m happy for you that your experience differs, but you are the exception. 5 years ago pretty much all of my freinds had BMWs, most of them E46s. For me, it was the end of a 25 year love affair with the brand. Interior moldings peeled back and fell off. The dealer said the new ones were the same and would probably not last any longer than the 2 years that the ones installed by the factory did. Other interior plastics cracked. Dealers deferred maintenance until after the warranty ended. The first post-warranty services all cost thousands. Lower control arms left over from when 3-series weighed 2,750 lbs were service items under 3,200 lb E46s. Sensors failed and caused body computer issues that took hours and sometimes days of shop time to trouble shoot. The result? One went for a Tacoma, One went for an IS 250. One went for a TSX. One went for a GTI DSG(the only car that wasn’t an improvement over an E46). And one BMW went for a Civic Si. One guy still had an E46 as his primary car last time I saw him driving, but he is usually deployed to the middle east and his car has limo tint windows that protect the interior from the sun that it can’t stand up to. Meanwhile, the Element you denigrate was #2 on Consumer Reports list of cars most likely to last 200,000 miles a couple years ago, behind another Honda. #1 on the list of cars LEAST likely to last 200,000 miles in the same issue? A BMW. Your E46 may not be self-recycling garbage, but one swallow doesn’t make a summer.
@Canucklehead. “Anyone who doesn’t think it won’t cost at least $2000 to keep a 10 year old German car on the road has never….. etc., etc. yada yada
I have a 14 year old Audi A6 Avant. Bought 9 years old in 2006 with 73k miles. Now have driven it for 5 years and put 79k more miles on it. Other than oil and tire changes, my total cost of maintenance and replacement is $1,600. That is TOTAL, not per year. Perhaps I am the exception which proves your rule of thumb, or perhaps you need to re-open your mind and change your paradigm.
DS Given the criteria, I agree with you. For some reason used BMWs are in better shape than the others mentioned, at least here in Florida.
Our experience is that Hondas are as expensive, and often more tedious to repair.
We can do your struts however if you don’t mind a 15 year old working on your car.
William442 I would take you up on the teenager strut job, but afraid it won’t make it to Florida, my power steering pump just failed. Seriously.
DS must have really beat the crap out of that Element for the insides to be falling apart already!
And CJ, why you gotta hate on the VW?? The GTI with DSG cant be old enough to already be falling apart!!
In my experience maybe 3-5k maintenance if you find the indie mechanic…..maybe?
$3000/5 years is $600 a year. You’re telling me that to take a BMW from 100,000 miles to 175,000 is going to run you $600 a year? I don’t find that number at all credible.
Yup. Unless you live in CJinSD’s torturous world, why not? maybe you go $150 one year, $1000 the next. I’ve never had a BMW with excessive ownership costs year after year. In my world if the first 100k go well then the next 100k usually repeat the first. I have never had a car that started to fly apart at 100-120k, OK my Ford Escort did, but that was along time ago. I don’t get the stereotype that its a hidden rule with German cars, or any car for that matter. Its not been my experience.
DS: Still with you . The 12 year old AMG mostly has needed yearly oil changes, and tires. One major repair bill, $1200.00 was for replacing most everything, including all fluids, belts, hoses, and everything else Mr Bergman could find.
How does it go. “Don’t try to describe a Kiss concert if you’ve never seen one”
jmo:
If ya really smart.. and ya got good credit..
Go to a bank get a check for 15g est and pick up any EX V6 Cert Accords they’ve got from 03-08.. they’d knock anything you want off for that good-as-cash-CHECK. Get it in blue or RED, with the TAN leather interior.. with low miles.. and a review of the belts hopefully before 100k (even then a belt job is 500bux, cheap to fix and the car runs for 100k.)
A BRAND new Accord.. is a bloated, gutless, generic, heavy ass, piece of shit.
Its not worth driving.
Its not worth sitting in.
It’s not even WORTH owning.
Ya want a (somewhat) “sporty car”.. go for the 7th gen Accord EX V6 with the leather, or pick up a TL from the last gen with the 3.5 or the 2 gens ago TL with the 3.2.
Honda NO LONGER builds nice, cornering, lightweight, corner tossing, powerful, torque loving / sporty cars. This isn’t the company that put the Accord on a 4cycl diet and made due with that from the 3-5th gens. This isnt even the tossable 6th gen Accord with the 2800lb curb weight up to about 3000 with the 6cycl.
The current gen (8th) is just a CAMRY from HONDA. Either stick with the TL and go for the mass of tech buttons, but stay away from CURRENT Accord.
Out of the 4 10+ year old bimmers I’ve had, they have been pretty reliable. The E46 had gone about 80k with about 3 grand worth of expenses. My E34 has gone 25k with 1k worth of damages. I fix some things myself, like thermostat and shocks on both cars. Went to the mechanic for bearings, control arms, and oil leak. I blew the head gasket on my E30 (donuts in the snow, 170k), and still bought my E34 with the same engine, never failed to start. I would buy Bimmer again, I’m looking to buying an E39 or E46 when I have the cash. Still plenty of good cars on the road, I’m happy I got a good car to get around.
<i> In my world if the first 100k go well then the next 100k usually repeat the first.</i>
Um…now you’re just being ridiculous.
Nope. It’s sweet around here, except for that pesky Honda. I usually don’t trust a car until I hit 100k
mnm4ever,
The GTI DSG in question is a 2008 model. It spent most of 2010 parked while my friend tried to reach a settlement with VW before going to court over it. I believe it has at least 50,000 miles, but it has had more work than you would believe, and there are still issues that VW can’t or won’t address.
I usually don’t trust a car until I hit 100k
Wow, you’ve managed to defy logic, common sense and indeed all statistical evidence. As cars age their mean time between failures rises considerably.
How about this for common sense. My cars are paid for and owe me nothing, if the Bimmer crapped out tomorrow and cost 3k to fix, big deal it would be the first time and still cheaper than turning cars at 100k and going back to payments just to hide behind a warranty or perceived reliability on a newer car. Remember warranties are paid for with depreciation. I underwrite my own to 200k, win every time. As I said this is my experience, and it works. Sometimes I read the horrific stories about bad experiences and cant figure out what the hell people are doing to have such horrible luck. I don’t baby my cars they sit outside, get buried in snow (like now), miss oil changes and service schedules, hammered by kids, dogs and dirty bikes, blah blah. They just keep going through it all and return a good driving experience. If I could just keep that console in the Element from lifting out with my coffee…
underwrite my own to 200k, win every time.
Are you really trying to argue that if I want to drive 200,000 miles it’s cheaper to buy two used BMWs rather than one new Accord?
I buy my BMW parts online, and can fix most things myself, Even though I have a good mechanic that charges me the same no matter the car. Bimmers up to the E46 are easy to fix. Online the difference between BMW parts and the other cars aren’t big if different at all.
Sometimes I read the horrific stories about bad experiences and cant figure out what the hell people are doing to have such horrible luck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
In terms of used BMW buyers you’ve been “lucky” enough to be on the left side of the distribution. The reality is that most buyers should expect less reliability and higher costs than you’ve experienced.
Are you really trying to argue that if I want to drive 200,000 miles it’s cheaper to buy two used BMWs rather than one new Accord?
-the guy wants a 10k car that he can appreciate and your suggesting a new Accord? How does that figure?
-the guy wants a 10k car that he can appreciate and your suggesting a new Accord?
Yes, because it may end up having a lower total cost of ownership that a $10k BMW. Buying a car, especially a used car, is about more than just the purchase price.
JMO:
A new Accord over a BMW?!
Have you totally lost all of the oil in your pan?!
The new Accord has less of a point than ANY ACCORD before it.
Its not quick.
Its not fast.
Its not good looking.
The fuel economy B L O W S.
Its generic (if ANYONE knows cars that you haul around.. says ya bought the cheapest damn Accord they had.)
On top of, having good financing deals or cash on the hood.. has NO MERIT on the vehicle, it depends on YOUR ability to qualify for those merits.
Go out.. and find that decent, low mi 4dr Accord, in the EX-V6 or the SE trim–(last yr of every m.y) with the V6 -=trim for under 15g, THAT, is where you will find the best deal. Ya get all of the high quality parts and or design ntm low LOW cheap mait that Honda benefits from… and ya don’t have to deal with the crazy GERMAN tech issues or the feeling of being bent over by buying a 3/5 series.
BUY THE USED 7TH GEN ACCORD 03-07 in its top most trim!
If the Accord is too generic and doesnt do you justice.. and you really want more sport… in your driving…
Pick up a 1st gen TSX. Its the Accord for the JDM market, athletic and good looking. Its everything the “Integra 4dr” car should be.
Not a current BMW 3 series = E90.
——————————————————————
dswilly:
The BMW depreciation / advertisements of free mait / and lease deals, on top of overcharges for oil changes and basic mait smacks you in the face like an ex wife with a 40lb frying pan.
A new 3 series / BMW E90, isn’t sporty. It just says I got a cheap BMW. The 3 series USED to be sporty (only in the M3 versions). It used to be lightweight (gave that up to the 1 series — that doesn’t come into the U.S as a 3/5dr hatch). The starting price of a stripper E90 is 35, and ya have to be thankful ya got round tires, pleather seats and a low displacement 6cycl. You’d have to spend at least 40g to get a paint that isn’t black / white or dark blue, with a proper tan leather interior. The cars are ALWAYS SOLD as autos, RARELY ever as a stick — negating ANY sporting pretensions.
Its just not worth the money. Especially if ya really like to drive, and ya always wanted a BMW.. a stripper E90 with the auto in black on black.. is the worst way to go. Not sporty.. just GENERIC.
The new Accord has less of a point than ANY ACCORD before it.
As Honda’s answer to the Avalon/LaCrosse it’s a fine car. I really don’t understand what your problem is, some people like a big comfortable car.
JMO:
Ya dont get the CONCEPT here.
The Accord actually grew into a FULLSIZE class to compete with Camry (others followed for the purpose of competition alone), equal to a Taurus, Avalon, 300… Lacrosse.
That wasn’t the POINT of the CAR! Honda didn’t make the Accord to be a competitor to these who want a Avalon with the Honda badge. It doesn’t matter what some people want. GM didn’t ask people what they wanted in the 90s Buick’s/Saturns/Geo’s and or 80s Old’s. If they want a big comfortable car, they can buy it somewhere else. They can have their sofa in a Lacrosse, 300 or a Avalon. Honda never built the Accord to be COMFORTABLE. The Accord has been a sporting midsizer that ya can actually drive for the past 20+yrs. I’ve driven every Accord since the 4th gen back in 92, and this is the most worthless gutless example of a car with THAT badge on it, SINCE!
BIG / COMFORTABLE?! Go pick up a Park Avenue Ultra, I hear there is no driving involvement needed, with a monster motor just barely able to haul that casket around. The way the Accord used to drive, with its road feel, lightweight, its low sound deadening, its design theory and its lack of a 6cyck motor until 15yrs ago shows that power and luxury aren’t the Accord. That’s what the RL WAS for.
The Accord was Honda’s driver centric answer to the CAMRY, always HAS BEEN.
Ya’d have to drain the car and run it with no oil to miss the concept of the car in this generation.
And YOU put it next to a current 3 series = E90!?! Because ya have a notion of saving money and higher resale?! This damn SOFA wont even get out of its own way with a 3.7ltr boat anchor strapped to it. Go buy the earlier car AND ACTUALLY ENJOY DRIVING than this DAMN SOFA without being sexually abused for a oil change and basic mait (ignoring BMW’s begs for customers with free mait)!
That wasn’t the POINT of the CAR!
The point of the car is to make Honda shareholders money.
Canuck, my point is for the same $11k you could have gotten a much newer and lower mileage American car. Or Saab. Or Volvo. Or Jag
In Vancouver, British Columbia, it will not. The number I quoted was in kilometres, by the way. Saabs and Volvos are money-pits, not on my dime, thanks. American car? Well, I wouldn’t be caught dead in one.
What this dswilly cat fails to understand is that his situation is the exception that proves the rule. I’m glad he has had success with his BMW and sorry his Honda has let him down but it has been proven time and time again that, overall, Honda builds more reliable vehicles than BMW does. In the event something does go wrong it will be easier and cheaper to fix on your own or through a trustworthy independent shop. OP needs to find a nice private party 1st gen TSX and call it a day.
Dang that’s a tough price point, hombre. Even $15,000 would make it so much easier. I won’t recommend a (regular wheelbase) Panther platform… maybe a Town Car L (long wheelbase) but you’ll likely break your budget finding a nice one and they’re certainly not sporty. How bout looking high and low for a LS400 or LS430 that has been nicely cared for by some elderly person? (I know it’s not sporty but I would’t be embarassed to drop a client in one.)
Sajeev maybe on the right track with an Azera (not sporty either but sufficently “isolating”) or really fly under the radar with a Kia Amanti (NulloMundo has one [he’s a Ford salesman] and LOVES it.) Another no sporty possibility would be a 1990-1995 E class or S class, I’ve seen quite a few with less than 100,000 miles in your budget range in great shape. I’ve heard that the 2000 and up XJ Jaguar’s are decently reliable and stupid cheap but your clients might think your having that midlife crisis.
I know no firm answers there, raised more questions than I’ve answered, but that’s how I’m feeling today.
Oh dang, how bout a Ford D3 platform vehicle? I’ve seen loads of FiveHundreds and Montegos online for right around $10,000 with around 75,000 miles on them, most of them loaded with leather/heated seats. Even the CVTs are supposed to be reliable if you do the fluid change right around that mileage. https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/08/capsule-review-2006-ford-five-hundred-sel-cvt/ I’d clasiffy Baruth’s review as… grudging respect.
A close friend needed a car, but couldn’t afford a Honda Accord – too expensive, even used. He went with the Lexus as pictured above, but I can’t remember the years. But boy it’s a nice ride, but too luxurious for me with too many doo-dads for my taste (I drive a base w/sport-appearance pkg. ’04 Impala, remember?). He got the Lexus for less than a same-year used Accord, believe it or not! I’m not a “luxury car” fan, but on this I agree – go for the Lexus! Am I forgiven now, Sajeev?
Panther Love demands more than you currently offer. Sorry.
Sajeev, help me please!!!
Trying desperately to help my friend… would a grudging respect be enough? I seem to recall a Mr. Mehta admitting at one point that a small piece of Panther Love is their “survival,” that the B-body was a better vehicle, but in GMs typical stupidity, they killed it, but Ford soldiered on. (Let me clarify by saying that same model year vehicle, while the B-body cars were in production, I’d rather have a B-body (or D-body) but post 1996 when GM walked away, give me a Panther – especially a Town Car.)
Allow me to say in my defense I did go down and brave the local Ford stealership and enter a drawing (last year) to win a low mile 1984 Town Car with tow package when they decided to just “give it away” instead of sell it. (I didn’t win… I think it went on to die a low-rider death.)
I agree with Dan/Sajeev’s points.
I would accept “grudging respect” as well. At least you don’t trot out brain-dead remarks about it being a “dinosaur” and other such nonsense.
And that leads me to my admonishment of the day (patent pending)…
Answering “irrational” love for an admittedly flawed platform with equally irrational hatred isn’t getting us anywhere, kids.
Thank you Dan, my friend! What you wrote really does put things in a different perspective. When I think of the Panther platform, I see cop cars and forget all about the Fords and Mercs in my neighborhhod – simply not thinking before I write. Town Cars, incidently, believe it or not, I absolutely love. I’ve driven them, and a close friend has one – the rounded model, not the early 90’s version, but I like those, too. Survival? I respect that, I owned a Ranger for years. I’m not a GM-lover anymore than I am Ford, and I hated what GM did to the B-body bathtub Caprice and Impala SS, but strangely, liked the Roadmaster sedan, not the wagon – lack of rear window roll-down, no divider bar. The Fords did indeed soldier on. Admittedly, the last time I drove a Grand Marquis was in 2004 on a business trip (I think I read they’ve improved since). It sure did like to float around on I-65 to and from Chicago! I suppose my feelings toward the Grand Marquis and Crown Victoria are style- and architectural-related, i.e. the excessive overhangs – not the cars themselves. So, after examining my own perspective on the Panther platform, I stand corrected with Dan’s help! Who knows, I could end up with one someday. The main thing TTAC has taught me is car platforms and their history – development through the years and how they change – something I never bothered researching before. So, Dan, respect. Grudging respect? Much more than that, I assure you! Hopefully, Sajeev will somehow forgive me, after all, I may need his and TTAC’s help!
Agreed with most everything presented on this Panther mini-thread. That said, I could split hairs, but that’s super lame and boring. Back to my love of ES300s…
$10K won’t get you past the first syllable of “prudently successful.”
As much as I am bored TO DEATH by my 1998 ES300, it is a damn reliable car. 208K miles on it now and still runs like new. In fact, I bought it because I just read too many horror stories with BMW, Audi, Acura, etc… & Somehow I wasn’t fazed as much with the so called sludge issues. Toyota ain’t perfect, but the ES is a gem.
Aren’t “prudently successful” and “under $10k” kind of mutually exclusive? To me, a 10-year-old German sedan says “enthusiast” or “poser”. Neither says “money”.
“””
Why does everyone always ignore the Lexus LS? From a pure quality standpoint, it could well be the best car in the world. The attention to detail in those cars is absolutely staggering, and there is no area where they are conspicuously lacking (Except maybe styling, which is subjective). For 10K you could get a nice older LS400 and revel in the fruits of a time when Japanese precision meant something. Flawless build quality, reasonable performance, rock solid reliability and absolute comfort and luxury. Some still say that the LS400 had the best ride quality ever.
You want a little sport? Lexus SC400. If you want to understand the old Lexus way, go read the TTAC article on the SC400. German engineering looks like a bad joke compared to what went into the LS and SC.
How about the GS400 too?? A good friend has one, over 100k and still is like a brand new car, everywhere. Quality like an LS, sporty like an SC but with practicality as well. Its nearly impossible to find a nice SC that hasnt been hooned or turbo’ed by now, and the LS just screams “retiree”. The GS is the one I would drive, and tends to go cheaper because no one really knows what it is.
Cheap to maintain and European are not synonymous. Since you like “sporty yet prudent” there is always a nice used 2004-206 Acura TSX which is a good looking car, plus they are very fun to drive and reliable. These version only had the 200hp 2.4 liter 4 cylinder but it’s plenty fine to get around town (just not a drag racer). I used to own a 2004 w/ 6 speed and it was a great car to drive and plenty of room for my family of 4. Another good option is a 2005-2006 Subaru Legacy which are fun to drive and have good room for a family of 4. If you go to an Outback it has the 5 door hatchback – plus you get AWD.
http://www.brooksidecars.com/newandusedcars/0/856919/5f826c7c-7ef9-46ca-bc08-b1676da51e02/none/2004-Saab-95-Union-NJ-07083.aspx
OK, OK, I’m a broken record on this, but $9k will get you a well-maintained 2004-5 Saab 9-5 that scoots in a straight line, is incredibly comfortable, and will fool people into thinking that you’ve got a responsible upper-middle-class car budget but old-school WASP restraint – perfect for Fairfield County. They’re also not _that_ expensive to maintain if you find a good indie Saab mechanic: it was already a six-year-old platform with the kinks worked out, and no sludge issues in those years. Just bank the extra $1k against electronic gremlins.
haha, yea you do start to sound like a broken record, but on this one I am totally with you. The Saab is the perfect choice for this guy.
He needs a car that is new enough to appear more expensive than $10k, because being a 47yo financial advisor who can only afford a $10k car is not going look good. Since it also has to be relatively reliable/affordable to own, he has to stay away from Land Rovers and Jags which otherwise would work well in this situation. Nothing German will work at that price point(well maybe a Passat, but I will bet on Saab reliability over VW). The Jap cars hold too good resale value, and he doesnt like American psuedo-luxury cars like a LeSabre. Plus, Saab is still a well respected brand in New England, they are still sporty, etc. Perfect…
And since the old 9-5 was in production since dirt was new, no-one but an enthusiast will be able to tell how old it is. Saab wrenchers are a dime a dozen in New England too. Get the newest one you can afford, and smile. A GREAT car for carting clients around, make sure to get one with rear butt heat.
An old Lexus might be reliable (though I have an Aunt who would disagree with that) but since they change them every few years everyone will know that it is old.
@astigmatism: my friend’s somewhat clean 2003 9-3 Vector is just too much of a heap for me to not LOL at your comment. Just yesterday the parking brake mechanism failed (in the engaged position) below the console in the sub freezing weather. I donno what GM made these vehicles out of, but anything below that wonderful SAAB loop carpet sure looks like 100% pure, freshly cut, crap.
Maybe the 9-5 is better, but not from my experiences with another friend’s V6 model. Most importantly, Houston’s local Indie SAAB mechanic is no sweetheart, either. RUN!
@sajeev: I don’t have much personal experience with the 9-3 Vector, but my suspicion is that there’s a world of difference in terms of reliability and general sorted-out-ness between a first-year Episolon-based performance-line 9-3 and the sixth year of the 9-5, and I can tell you from some degree of personal experience that the 9-5s are light-years above the 9-3 in terms of materials and refinement. And the turbo 4 is the way to go, with this and every other Saab.
One more point: this ain’t Houston, cowboy. Connecticut, as others have pointed out, is Saab country, and if you can’t find a good Saab mechanic within throwing distance in Fairfield County you’re not looking hard enough.
That’s good to hear. Thanks, I always need people to give (even more) perspective with a little back and forth discussion, TTAC style.
So with that in mind, I seriously question SAAB ownership in the flyover states.
Get an XJ8. You will have change left over for maintenance. They are reliable.
I suppose you are successful because you do not want to waste too much money on a depreciating asset, i.e., your car.
A few things–
1) Regarding the “prudently successful means more than $10k budget” comments, please note that Marc said the MESSAGE is “prudently successful,” not the REALITY is “prudently successful” (yet!).
2) Marc: Sajeev’s Lexus ES recommendation says “prudently successful” IMO. You won’t be embarrassed to drive around a client in it, and the maintenance shouldn’t kill you. Plus, you may find the FWD helpful for Connecticut winters. Acura is probably a good choice too, keeping in mind the (already mentioned) transmission issues. For $10k, forget that German cars even exist. Why take the risk? If your job requires you to drive around clients periodically, having a car in the shop frequently isn’t just an inconvenience–it can be a professional hindrance.
3) Marc: if you’re planning to use the same car to drive around small children and clients, be prepared to spend extra time and/or money to keep the interior clean. Also, (in case you don’t do this already), you might want to restrict what the kids eat/drink while traveling: e.g., only water to drink, no wet or sticky foods, etc. Also, no crayons/markers/messy activities.
$10k is indeed a tough spot. But might I suggest along with the ES, a prior generation Volvo S80. Nothing says “prudently successful” like a Volvo. I sold my 2001 S60 last year for $6.5, with 110k. So $10k should get you a 2002-03 S80 just shy of 100k miles. Forget the older 3-series, it’s got no room for clients in back. In fact, the older 5 series had poor leg room too. If you had a little more to spend, I’d say an Acura TL from the last generation. I’d say a Passat could be a fit even at $10k, but don’t know about the reliability.
Best bet on the Volvo is that there are tons of them in New England, and tons of indy mechanics who work on them. Keep it out of the dealership at all costs.
Good one too… I didnt see this before I replied to the Saab suggestion. The Volvo might even be a better choice. I see a lot of used low mileage S80’s going very cheap…
But that same $10k will get you the big Jag with half the miles…
I can appreciate your desire to avoid GM & ChyrsisCo, have personally been burned by both. That said the ‘good’ 300M/LHS/Concordes’s from the early 2000’s is what you’re looking for. Check the forums, they’ll tell you which model years were good and which ones were moneypits.
Early 2000’s Acura’s and Lexi are a good bet, before they started overpowering and underengineering them.
As a former ’99 Concorde owner, I’ll make it simple: if you’re looking at a 300M or LHS, it’ll have the 3.5 engine. Take care of it and it will take care of you. If you’re looking at a Concorde or Intrepid, open the hood. If you see “2.7” anywhere (likely), close the hood and run, don’t walk away.
If you do buy one of these, three pieces of advice: First, on your way home with your new purchase, stop at a place you trust and have the outer tie rod ends replaced (with an alignment, of course). Just do it. They’re known for falling apart prematurely, and they’re not expensive. You’ll be amazed at how well a car this size handles, and real full-size humans can sit in back.
As long as the car’s on the hoist and the wheels are off, have the battery checked. It’s in a very inconvenient spot, and there’s a good chance the cables will be corroded. Replace what’s needed.
Next, turn on the air conditioner. There’s a decent chance it will blow warm, musty-smelling air through the vents. That means an evaporator, which will run you about $500.00.
I miss my Concorde – it was the ideal car for me. If only I’d known about that 2.7 liter turd under the hood…
Hey Marc! I just want to start by saying that what we have here is (quoting from The Wire) “what you’d call one of those good problems.”
So let’s look at what you’re asking for:
$10,000 or less, avoiding GM/Chrysler, 4 doors, reasonable maintenance, sporty + luxurious, “prudently successful” (I like that).
Right off the bat, I’ve got some ideas floating around, but Merc/Audi/BMW are out of the question. If you were dropping $60,000 on a new car, I would not be concerned. The new BMWs and others are pretty reliable. But when we’re dealing in the sub-$10k range, the costs to maintain any German car from the 1990s and 2000s will have you spending another $10k over the life of the car, easily.
You may get lucky. You could pick up a 2001 BMW 330i and might not have any problems. If this is the case, get a 330i. You will love it. It will be your third child.
But… and it’s a big but, you most likely won’t be one of the lucky few who get a gem. So, I would happily steer you in the direction of Infiniti.
Check out the Infiniti G35. It’s as reliable as the Acuras and Lexuses, you’ll get it cheaper, and in the opinions of many auto journos it is the Japanese equivalent to a Bimmer. Fun. Reliable. Does it get better than that?
Gotta go with the G35. Good luck!
Make it another vote for the ’98-’03 XJ8. If you watch the classifieds/craigslist, you’ll start seeing a succession of cars with the following history: Grandpa bought it as his “last car” and drove it once or twice a week to church and a golf outing. Or he bought it as Grandma’s last car and she drove it to bingo and bridge. In either case the driver’s health declined and it was too much of an emotional hurdle for them to sell the thing. Now they’re dead and either the surviving spouse or the kids are trying to unload it and just want to see the car go away as they’re stressed with all sorts of more important decisions on their minds. In any event, the cars with this history are 8-13 years old but have been well cared for but have less than 40k on the clock. (A year ago we picked up a ’98 with only 34k on it for less than $10k.) If you do decide to go this path, take a look at the internet forums as they’re full of really good info for the used XJ buyer.
+1 on this. Could not agree more – with two caveats.
1) the pre-2005 cars are in NO WAY sporty; they are the Ford/Jaguar version of the panther platform (albeit a bit more expensive) – comfortable on a highway/straight line, relatively good gas milage, and generally owned by folks that didn’t hot rod ’em.
2) pay a little more for a one owner well maintained, and more milage is actually better — low milage cars (much like low milage 97-99 Boxsters) are timebombs waiting to go off; if the engine is going to fail, it will have failed if you look in the 60K+ milage
No one will mistake you for “midlife crisis,” that’s for sure.
I’m one of those people who loves the 3-series but at $10K you’d end up with an E46 and as great as that is, it’s getting a bit dated, especially with the new model being introduced at the end of the year. Same thing with the (E39) fünfer, as good as that car is, it’s still a 1995 design.
Any Mercedes you’re going to buy from that era is bound to be a POS with all of the quality issues they had back then, then again I don’t think they’re all that attractive anyway (well a W210 in good shape looks ok but between the electronics and the rust issues, I just wouldn’t go there).
The Audi A6 only became interesting as of 2005, which leaves the A4, which for this budget is probably what I’d get. I’m not that big of an Audi fan, but I’ve always liked the A4 launched in (IIRC) 2001. The engines are not as great as BMW’s I6s, but on the plus side, the interior is really quite nice and since every Audi has looked the same since that A4, it still is quite representative if it is in good condition.
I don’t know that much about Acuras, but I guess most of the things said about the A4 would also be true for the previous model TSX.
Otherwise I tend to agree with Steve that if you forget about the ‘premium brand’ factor, you’d be able to get something much more modern and probably more sensible for your money…But then again I probably wouldn’t do that either.
Checkout a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT – yes you can get them for about $10k – and they come with either a slow 2.5liter NA engine, or a hotter 2.5Liter turbo engine (detuned STi engine) – and both come with manual trans option, but always 4WD. Stylish, reliable, unique. Says – I like cars (unlike driving an Accord/Camry/Altima) but I’m not some kind of Merc/BMW/Audi poser.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2005&make=Subaru&model=Legacy
Infinity G35 sedan
Hyundai Sonata
A nice MB, Audi or BMW is expensive. A bad one is even more expensive.
Doesn’t want a GM or Chrysler but is willing to spend no more than $10K on a used Audi, BMW, or Mercedes from probably the late 90’s or early 00’s
Oh brother…perception vs. reality at its very finest.
I say go find a used C-Class or maybe an A4 in the $10K price range – and have a trust fund ready to keep it running. You’d be vastly better off with a crappy W-Body at the $10K price range than anything you could buy from Mercedes, Audi or BMW in that price range.
All kidding aside – reco for Panther platform makes perfect sense along with turn of the century Lexus – neither can be killed and both haven’t changed much in styling.
Cadillac CTS – albiet the rear seat is probably too cramped, oh wait, no GM.
Acura TL – but in the years and price range you’re looking at you’ll have to go with a manual. The slush boxes from the early part of the century are crap.
Subaru Outback sedan.
If you REALLY want to be in an Euro sled and not be up to your ass in repairs to keep it on the road, you’re going to need to reevaluate your $10K. budget. If you don’t want a manual, just take Acura off your list – again at the price point your calling out.
Panther, Panther, Panther. The king of the Panthers the Marauder, with reasonable miles on it can be had for under 10K. I picked up my 03 Marauder with just over 100K for 7K just a few months ago, granted it needed new tires but you still would have money left over after tax and license. An 03 up Town Car or Grand Marquis would be a good choice too the TC has a few more inches of rear leg room but could be seen a flashy. As other have said if you were to up the budget to 15K you could pickup a 2010 rental return GM with less than 20K miles on it as a CPO at your local dealer. An 03 up is a must as they redesigned the seats for more room in the back w/o sacrificing room in the front. Nothing else even comes close for as low a cost of ownership. Getting in the low 20’s in everyday driving is easy and 25-27 on the Freeway is the norm. Another good option that could be had for about 10K would be a FWD Montego or Five Hundred. Stay away from a Lexus, and Acura as they don’t say prudent they say hey look at me I’ve got money to throw away on an overpriced Toyota or Honda. A German car says image is the only thing that is important to me.
In New England, only cabbies, cops, and livery drivers drive Panthers. And really old people with FL license plates. Give it up, that would CERTAINLY NEVER DUE in his line of work. Like it or not, image IS important for someone in that industry. He will be taking people out to lunch, they will see what he is driving, and that will influence thier opinion of him. That is reality, like it or not.
Now go find a nice Saab! Or Volvo, but IMHO if you are going to buy a modernish FWD car, Saab does that better than Volvo. They have had a lot more practice.
I agree that image is important in his line of work which is why a GM is a good choice it doesn’t say image is the only thing like the Germans or I overpaid for a Toyota or Honda. Once the client gets in the car they will be impressed, and if they question why an “old persons” car the response that he did his research and found it to have a much lower cost of ownership than those other makes IT will impress his clients.
+1 on the older ES Lexus. Find a garaged, one-owner example with maintenance records (most owners will have taken it to the dealer exclusively). These cars age very well and still look modern. The ES says luxury but financial restraint (it’s not the LS, after all) all at the same time. IXNE on the “gold” trim package though!
Stay away from early-mid 2000s Honda/Acura (6-cyl) automatics like the plague unless you enjoy shelling out $3500 for a tranny rebuild.
Would prefer avoiding GM & Chrysler
Why? Both companies made a few pretty good cars that, second-hand, would hit that price point. You could score a nicely-trimmed Saturn Aura, certainly and could reasonably consider a Chrysler 300. Even a Saab 9-5, post-2005, with service records and CPO’ed, might not be a bad idea.
Now that said, if you want prudent and you have kids, stay the heck away from the Europeans. Heck, I’d stay away from any luxury car at that price because it stands a pretty good chance of being neglected. Were I you, I would be thinking “premium mainstream”.
Consider the Toyota Avalon (you could consider the Camry, but the Avalon tends to be cheaper), Buick LaCrosse, Hyundai Azera, possibly the Nissan Maxima (though it’s a little cramped, it is somewhat more sporty). You could also consider the Acura TL, but good ones will be expensive and older ones have transmissions of questionable reliability. You might be able to find a V8-equipped LaCrosse or Impala, but I doubt it.
I keep coming back to that Saturn in my head. Aura XRs are quick, handle well, ride well, are pretty nice on the inside and—above all—they’re cheap and pretty reliable.
IIRC 2005+ Jeep Grand Cherokees w/leather, heated seats, etc. are available for <$10k.
downside: MPG
upside: luxurious enough (for a lot of ppl all you need are leather seats to be deemed driving a lux. car), relatively spacious. better value many equivalently priced lux. cars (like e46 BMW, etc). repairs/parts, if needed, are relatively cheap.
+1 for Sajeev’s TL idea
I don’t want my financial advisor driving a luxury car that was paid for with the exhorbitant fees I was charged for his advise. It would send a better message that you are careful with my money if you are driving a sensible, practical car.
I disagree, mjz. If my financial planner is doing well, I’m doing well. He makes money when I make money. And it is my hope — my expectation — that he makes a lot of money.
Domestic Hearse,
Generally, a financial advisor makes money when they sell a mutual fund with a front-end load to a client. So, they get compensated whether their clients do well or not.
Yes. That’s why banks have marble floors and bankers wear suits. Would you trust your money there if it looked like somebody’s dorm room?
Guys here’s what a well kept old (10+ years) luxury car says to me… Here’s a person who understands “value” and knows that true “wealth” is not buying something new every three years. I would actually be attracted to someone handling my money who holds on to something like that for many years at a time. If I see 3 money managers, one who drives a brand new Mercedes, one who drives a new Sonata, and one who drives a 2000 Lexus LS (immaculately kept) I’m gonna go to the guy in the Lexus.
I was under the impression that everyone here at TTAC would only ever use a fee only financial planner. And yes, with fee only, I want him driving a Bentley because his advice is just that good.
2001-03 Lexus LS430.
Most have been owned by responsible, successful adults, seen the service bay regularly, and have very good build quality and reliability.
The earlier models are within your budget, and the style (which is conservative, I’ll grant) is not out of fashion.
The big Lexus is also comfortable, safe, and quietly whispers promises of success and confidence into the ears of clients.
Have Steve start looking for you now, then fly to home and drive it home.
A ‘Prudent’ $10k used Mercedes?
I may not ready anything funnier for the rest of the day!
Go buy a couple year old Ford Five Hundred. Plenty of room, safe, good mpg.
Or a Montego for a little less bland styling, either way the Limited or Premier is the way to go.
I second M1 on that, for $10k you’re looking at transportation, not luxury cars.
Be careful though, my former financial advisor used to come to our offices in an older Taurus, which was quite acceptable to us, his clients.
One day my wife and I visited his office for a review and happened to bump into him afterwards in the parking garage. He made a quick excuse that he’d forgotten something and went back up. I think it was his Taurus he’d forgotten, because there was a big BMW there that certainly wasn’t ours…
I will agree w/ that vintage ES or TL. Steve’s choice of an Altima is fine, but I have to wonder why not spring for a Maxima? I would imagine the price points would be similar and you’d almost certainly get a little more equipment unless the Altima was truly loaded up. The Maxima offers a little more flash, too (but I guess that’s subjective).
Yeah, a Maxima or an I35.
I’ve always loved the classic look of the 1996-2001 Lexus ES, although I usually dislike two-tone paint. I suspect I would be let down if I ever drove one, though.
Would prefer avoiding GM & Chrysler
Why? Both companies made a few pretty good cars that, second-hand, would hit that price point. You could score a nicely-trimmed Saturn Aura, certainly and could reasonably consider a Chrysler 300. Even a Saab 9-5, post-2005, with service records and CPO’ed, might not be a bad idea.
Now that said, if you want prudent and you have kids, stay the heck away from the Europeans. Heck, I’d stay away from any luxury car at that price because it stands a pretty good chance of being neglected. Were I you, I would be thinking “premium mainstream”.
Consider the Toyota Avalon (you could consider the Camry, but the Avalon tends to be cheaper), Buick LaCrosse, Hyundai Azera, possibly the Nissan Maxima (though it’s a little cramped, it is somewhat more sporty). You could also consider the Acura TL, but good ones will be expensive and older ones have transmissions of questionable reliability. You might be able to find a V8-equipped LaCrosse or Impala, but I doubt it.
I keep coming back to that Saturn in my head. Aura XRs are quick, handle well, ride well, are pretty nice on the inside and—above all—they’re cheap and pretty reliable.
I’ve tried to post it twice and TTAC keeps eating it, so I’ll say it succinctly: Saturn Aura XR V6. Try to find one with mocha brown leather interior.
Agreed.
I was just thinking about “what’s an unloved/forgotten car that shares its bones with a common/mainstream car today?”
A few teething problems, but a much more comfortable place to spend some time than the G6.
It looks like Marc has already learned his GM lesson.
if you want clients to be comfortable, and why wouldn’t you, why not an Avalon? you give up sporty, obviously, but gain very excellent ride and back seat comfort.
i’m sure the kids won’t mind all that room in the back and as a side bonus is less chances of the kids kicking the back seat. man i hate that….
good luck
I read a profile of Warren Buffet. His personal car was a 10-year-old Ford or something like that. Warren Buffet!!
May I suggest a cpo Saab 9-5? There are plenty of them here in CT. I own two of the ’99 vintage. You’d want something newer, but you’d have nice choices. Before saying, no, at least test drive one.
Also, look around for a Toyota Avalon. In 2000, their slogan was “Built like a Lexus, priced like a Toyota.” My neighbor recently bought one that was primarily used to drive to Florida in October and back to Connecticut in March.
Not a Ford, a Town Car. Before selling it on eBay (proceeds benefiting charity) Warren Buffet had Panther Love.
If said Love good enough for him, it’s more than adequate for Zackman. :)
Wow, Sajeev, am I finally back in your good graces? I sure hope so! Man, this has been fun. I’m glad Educator Dan had my back, as we old guys need all the help we can get! I still agree with the Lexus on this whole thread, with a Town Car as a back-up plan. A Caddy – nah, unless new.
I’d advise against premium brands altogether, because at your budget, you aren’t going to fool anyone. A 2007 Accord says “like Warren Buffet, I’m ambivalent about cars.” A 2002 Lexus says “I want a nice car but I can’t afford one.” Image-wise, I think you’re better off with the former. An 8-year old luxury car gives you the worst of both worlds: wealthy clients will instantly recognize it as a $10,000 car, but retirees who sacrificed for 40 years to scrape together a modest nest’s-egg will resent it no matter how old it is. Go with any number of nice, 5-year-old midsized sedans and remember that a stick shift makes any car feel a little sportier.
I second the recommendation for a first-gen TSX. That will satisfy your “classy, big enough, sporty” criteria, especially with the outstanding 6MT. But that’s pushing $15K unless you buy one that’s been hooned within an inch of its life, and at that price point, you have lots of options. And given two youung children and the high turnover for new FAs, you are wise to stay on budget. Treat yourself to something nicer after you pass the five-year mark.
Here in Seattle there are lots of old Volvos in front of million dollar homes, so old cars are okay. But the one thing that mostly comes to my mind to impress clients is to keep the car super clean, especially on the inside.
Warren Buffet is “prudently successful” and he doesn’t try to use his car to impress people. A 47 year old financial adviser should look like an establishment banker, lawyer, CPA or corporate executive. Especially in Connecticut–no Hawaiian shirts are welcome there. His suit, shoes, shirt, tie and haircut are more important than a vehicle to his image. A car that is compatible with that desired image need not be fancy, just dignified (and client-friendly to ride in). For $10,000 I’d recommend a big Buick, a 500 or Montego, or Town Car. But it should be black or midnight blue, and shined up like a mirror.
Actually, he’d probably be better off spending $5000 on a nice old Park Avenue and applying the rest to membership in a good club where the prospects (and people who know prospects) can be chatted up.
You want to drive what your clients think you should drive. Who are your clients?
Lexus is for old conservative people, and that could be a plus if your market is full of them.
Volvo is for old yuppies, which could be a plus if you are in Vermont and want Boomer cash.
Panthers are for dead people, which is a good fit with Floridians with inherited money.
Acura is for Hondaphiles, and Honda people are cheap self-righteous recyclers.
Infiniti is for women, because these cars are fashion victims styled for Cougars.
Jeep is a good pick if your client base lives in a mountainous part of the country.
Lincoln is for manly banker types and banker wanna-bes. It’s an all around safe brand.
I would also avoid GM or Chrysler because these cars were made with lots of luck, and with the economy as it is, you probably don’t want to look like a guy who shoots for luck.
What about a Lincoln Panther? :)
Marc,
What’s your message to the clients? Is it “seek out value?” If so, get the used Lexus and tell your clients that it’s used.
I also like Accords but I think your chances of getting a smoking deal on a new one are better than your chances of getting a good deal on a used one. Within the last two years, two of my friends have gone out in search of a good used Accord and come home with a new one instead; the deal was just too good to pass up and the used ones weren’t priced low enough to be attractive by comparison. With leather interior, the Accord seems to me to be a very luxurious and impressive car. It’s also quite spacious and friends report good fuel economy.
In the 10K price range you won’t have to tell your clients Lexus used.
Last July, I had something of a similar issue in assisting my daughter who is in a more flashy business than being a financial advisor, and in Los Angeles. Not that she has to take people around in her car (she’s not a real estate agent), but, as she told me, “It’s just not going to work with me showing up at a lunch meeting with producers and directors driving a 2-year old Chevy Cobalt or Nissan Versa.” Roughly the same budget . . . in LA, where used cars are more expensive than in The Capital of the Free World.
We saw a nice ’01 E320 with low miles. Prolly an old man’s car. Looked and ran good, but I was concerned about possible repairs to the auto tranny. Also saw a nice ’04? BMW 325i, but it had some very amateurish paint of a parking lot ding and, again, I was concerned about maintenance items. Mileage in the 60-70K range. In the price range, saw a Saab 9-3 from like ’05. But the interior had been significantly de-contented from my ’02 9-5, and ours has had some significant repairs (yeah, I know different motor). Saw a couple of ES300s of ’00-01 vintage. Potentially nice solution; but the cars were of questionable heritage.
Ultimate decision: a very cherry RX300 ’00. One owner, low miles, in excellent repair. So far, so good. The OP ought to consider that one. Very comfortable car for 4 persons. Like the 9-5, general appearance of the car has been unchanged for a long time (newer versions are larger, but the difference is not obvious unless the two are side-by-side).
Having just last weekend shopped by the TL and TSX of the recommended vintage by other posters, I will say that the back seat in these is not great for adults. The cushion is pretty low to the floor, so your passengers sit with their knees in the air. Nice interiors, however, and not flashy (at least prior to ’08).
And, if you’re using the same car to haul kids and clients around, you’d better ban food consumption in the car and consider having some sort of quickly removable seat cover for the back seat.
Young single girl in flashy LA business?? I would have skipped practicality all together… that puts a lot more choices on the table! For 10k I would have picked up a current-gen used Miata. If they are too pricey in LA, buy it in FL and drive it to her, or ship it, only costs about $500. They are dirt cheap here…
mnm4ever I agree, plus the RX is far from practical anyway in fact I’d say it is less practical than a Miata, unless you have a need to haul more than 1 passenger.
I’m really starting to think there is something automotively magical about New England. Maybe it is because we are the closest part of the country to Europe, but I just don’t see the nightmare issues with European cars that are so often and fondly reported here. I’ve owned 30+, the only one that gave truly unreliable service was a seriously mangy Volvo 240 Turbo. I’ve owned a bunch of VWs, Saabs and BMWs, all were as reliable as sunrise, and that is the experience of my MANY VW, Saab, and BMW owning friends too. On the other hand, I have several friends who have given up on Subarus due to all the expensive issues, and a bunch of folks seriously unimpressed with thier transmission and brake eating Hondas. So in all seriousness, what’s the deal? Maybe it is because the climate is more like Europe here so the cars aren’t as stressed?
Heck, I even put 80K on a 90K mile Peugeot 505 wagon and NOTHING broke that wasn’t scheduled maintenance. Wish I still had that one. Am I just lucky? Or mechanically sympathetic? Good Karma?
And as one how has no fear of DIY on anything, I would MUCH rather work on anything European than anything Japanese or American. Japanese cars require tiny Japanese hands to work on, and American cars always seem to have junky bolts that rust up or snap off. BTDT.
I am amazed at how many of you think its completely practical to spend $10k on a car with upwards of 100k miles on it and consider that prudent. $10k is not an insignificant amount of money, and I cant see how thats even an option, especially if he needs this car to drive clients and kids around regularly.
I know he doesnt want a GM car, but hes being stubborn… thats what he should be looking at. Ford or GM, you can find cars in that price range with more like 50k miles than 100k. No, they wont be sporty… sorry, you have kids and clients and a low budget, you cant have a sporty car anymore. When you make more money, buy yourself a Miata as a toy.
The cars you are suggesting at that price point are going to be crap. If he had $15k? Yea, maybe that would work. But not a $10k. You cant get a TSX, an IS300, LS430, Accord, Maxima, G35, etc for $10k unless its been beat up or has 100k miles on it. You guys need to go shop these cars and see the real story…
Hallelujah, mnm4ever A nice Five Hundred/Montego or Grand Marquis can be had with reasonable miles and in excellent condition for that price and it won’t cost a ton of money to maintain, repair, or insure. Heck the Five Hundred/Montego even gets the same or better MPG than a V6 Accord or Camry of the same era with a whole lot more room in the back seat for the kids or clients. Then once he is established and making money buy the sporty fun to drive car for the weekends or night out with the wife.
My partner in my company has always had an aversion to spending money on cars. Until recently, he drove a 1979 Lincoln Continental Mk V wtih like 450hp under the hood. It kind of embarrassed me that he would show up to million dollar deal meetings in this thing, so I went out and bought him a 2001 Acura TL with only 90,000 km on it for $11,000. The car looks and drives like new. It is also worthy of picking up a well heeled client at the airport or showing up at meetings, which is exactly what it does.
Now, before you all start screaming “transmission,” this one has a new unit from 2006. Even if we do replace it down the road, it is still cheap compared to the $50k a new luxury ride would cost. The thing will get maybe 5000 km a year on it. It was paid from cash on hand so it costs nothing to keep on the books.
Canuck, my point is for the same $11k you could have gotten a much newer and lower mileage American car. Or Saab. Or Volvo. Or Jag.
Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Honda, Toyota, etc are known quality brands that hold top dollar resale value. When you are working within a tight budget, you are better off shopping the bargains, you simply get more for your money.
@mm4ever
To be sure, my daughter and I were looking a little higher (around $12K, IIRC) but we didn’t find cars that met your description regarding either appearance or mileage. I would not even consider a car for her with 100K miles on it, and, obviously, given her concerns a car that looked like it had barely escaped the crusher would not do. A beat-up old Mercedes is still a beat-up car.
That said, one ignores the wisdom of the marketplace at one’s peril, when buying used cars. There’s a reason why that used ’02 BMW 750iL is cheap, and it’s not because the car looks like its been beaten to death. It takes a great deal of knowledge, a considerable amount of work and some luck to “beat the market,” i.e. buy a cheap car that does not deserve its low price. As a general matter, the interior materials quality of the “luxury” cars was significantly better than the cheap Detroit iron. Among other things, this means after 5 or more years of use, the appearance of the inside of the car is better. Show me a 5-year old car with cloth seats that doesn’t look like crap inside and I’ll eat it. While “M-B Tex” and BMW’s “leatherette” may not be a terrific substitute for real leather, its still leagues better and more durable than any kind of cloth.
Cars that I found were expensive in LA had two common characteristics: they were generally reliable and they were nicely finished, inside and out. Hondas, Acuras and Lexi seemed to fit this description pretty uniformly.
I’m guessing that as a financial advisor you work for yourself; if this is the case, do yourself a favor- LEASE a new car and write it off as a business expense. A nicely-optioned Ford Fusion would be more than acceptable in the financial services industry (trust me, my family has over 30+ years experience), but if you simply MUST have the badge, get a 3-series/A4/C-class for $400/mth.
You don’t need it, though; one of our most successful advisors ($400k+ annually) drives a Honda Odyssey.
*However* if you’re dead-set on buying used, might this broken record reccomend a Mercedes W124? They were produced from 1984-1995 (the most modern-looking are the facelifted 1994-95 models) and are well-built, precisely-engineered cars that can stand up to any of the best LS models. You can easily score a mint, lower-mileage E320 sedan for $5k, and you’ve still got that same amount put aside for repairs. Best of all, they’re still lookers, and exude respectability in a way that few early-2000’s cars do.
+1
$10k is a tough price point. There are exceptions… I previously commented on the Saab and Volvo, I like the GM/Ford cars the poster doesnt like, if you could possibly find a first-gen LS400 that was well cared for it would be a good choice, and your W124 suggestion is a good one, especially if you only spend half your budget on it. But in general, its not worth buying a $10k car for cash. You are better off spending less on a less car, or keeping the cash and leasing or buying new.
Southwestern Connecticut? If you are not more than 20 miles east of Greenwich, or anywhere between there and the NY border, you have to buy a new car. I’m not making this up. It’s the law.
Hmm, I’m going to go with Sajeev’s Acura RL suggestion, digging back before I put the Panther ahead of the Legend platform personally. You can find 1999-2004 Acura RLs in your price range with decent mileage. Make sure the timing belt has been changed and you’ll have maybe the best V6 (90º C-series)/automatic combination Honda’s offered. Reliable too.
I’ve been trying to figure out why a financial adviser needs a car that will impress clients. FA’s work in offices, and ordinarily the clients go to them. Bankers, lawyers and CEOs don’t make house calls or chauffeur customers around like door-to-door life insurance or real estate salespeople. In this situation, drive whatever works best for you.
Alternatively, get a minivan, let the kids leave juice boxes in the cupholders, and apologize to your snooty clients, explaining that your Jag is at the shop and you had to borrow your wife’s car. Or get a funky machine like a Fit and explain that you had to borrow your kid’s car. Or get a truck and explain you’re going to run some bulky gear over to your boat.
I think a fresh low mileage Panther would be best choice. Respectable but not flashy, ultra-safe and very low cost of ownership.
If his price point was 15K instead of 10K I would have said; “CPO Grand Marquis” but sadly his budget doesn’t fit that.
Keeping in mind that the clients who may find themselves are a lot bigger than the two kids who may also put in some seat time back there, I suggest disqualifying lots of cars from the short list on rear-seat legroom alone. Those clients will appreciate the understated elegance of leather seats from which the cheerios and juice-box stains are more easily cleaned than cloth.
For sensible I’d start with Honda Accord EX-L and Ford 500
Upmarket I’d stick with Acura TL or a big Lexus, though I’m liking the Jaguar XJ as well.
04 to 06 Acura TL. May have to add a little cash though. Earlier TL’s have too many transmission problems. If you can find a manual trans, you will have a long term keeper.
05-07 Mazda 6 or the last gen Acura TL are handsome saloons with a touch of sportiness.
Given that it is CT RWD is out, FWD is the way to go, you need a car that meets your need and your town, Saab 9-5 is the best choice for you, plentyful in CT, a good one in your price range ( in fact you could choose from several) safe, will last a long time with the proper indie working on it ( again several in CT) good on gas, good back seat, sends the message that you want to send. I like the G35 but the back seat is on the small side and you would need the all wheel drive in CT and that eats gas, also as a bonus Saabs are cheap to insure and did I mention safe and they were HQ in CT for a time a bonus ! Good luck and let us know what you get.
Interesting that the OP is against GM, as several GM products (specifically an ’05-’06 Lacrosse or an ’06 Lucerne) would seem to check all the boxes that the OP is looking for.
Lexus? Forget the ES and go to the ’98-04 GS300. Extremely reliable iron block DOHC inline 6. From what I read on Lexus forums, these are solid cars with durable automatic transmissions – unlike any of the German choices listed above (and I drive an E46 BMW and love it).
Buy this Volvo, perfect for a financial advisor. It says “long term investment”.
With the spare change, add some wheels, tires, & a few suspension mods.
Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190497998624&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
It could look like this…
Link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29396384@N05/4897728523/
A Toyota Avalon would carry around clients pretty comfortably without making it look like you’re blowing their cash on luxury cars. And unlike a used BMW/Mercedes/Audi or to a lesser extent a used Lexus it won’t bankrupt you with upkeep.
What? You don’t know that 10 year old clapped out BMW’s are the model of reliability?
Prius.
First of all, congratulations on being a financial advisor. Its a rewarding career, with a great opportunity to earn multiple streams of passive income through trails, bonuses, and even management overrides. The first 2-3 years are the hardest years. I’d recommend investing in the books from Nick Murray, the skillset and mindset he teaches will pay dividends. Just remember a few points: 1) It’s a numbers game. 2) Don’t take rejection personally. 3) Master referrals so you never run out of people to see. 4) Don’t screw your customers (hint: if you wouldn’t buy it yourself, don’t recommend it).
Most of our meetings are at clients’ homes or coffee shops, so I wouldn’t recommend showing up in a slammed Honda Civic or a jalopy Volvo. I love luxury cars so I drive an LS430, but the other branch managers in my office drive an S550, Intrigue, Compass, E320, RX350, and TL. Our agents drive whatever they want, from 4Runners and X5 to Versa and Accord. We’re a motley bunch, one of them even punished himself for not making $200k/yr by leasing an Olds Alero for a year. But we practice what we preach, and max out our RRSP’s and TFSA’s (I’m in Canada) and avoid revolving debt like the plague.
I don’t like leasing, it’s as questionably sound as eating more food to increase your metabolism to lose weight. And Canadian tax laws let my write off my business-related car expenses anyway without the infinite car payments. But I do agree that customers expect you to drive something that’s fiscally prudent yet represents the station of an upper middle class professional. ES300, Azera, I35, TL, or Amanti is my vote.
Wow. You can’t fake a nice car with 10k. People who drive nice cars know the difference. Also, buying an acura, lexus, infiniti etc, NEW is still faking a nice car. My advice? You can buy a 3.2 carrera or 964 rolling chassis for 10k and leave it parked in front of your office. Those old 911 don’t sit up high when there is no engine in them, so it will look normal to your customers. Make sure you get custom plates for it like STKMAN or BULMKT and then just take the bus to work.
a great example of how this 10k highline does not work, last year I sold my 2001 S4 that I had bought form audi when it went out of service as a dealer rep car. I owned it for almost 10 years. It was worth right around your 10k number when I sold it last year. I kept this car perfect and it had more than its original msrp in upgrades. Now we owned othehr nice cars, but i always kept and loved this s4. Friends, co workers etc gave me more trouble the last few years about why I was driving around that old dinosaur POS everyday. and that was a nice 1 owner car that was literally handworshed everyday by the porters at my work, and kept in fantastic condition. So imagine what people will think about your typical 10k 10 year old german car.