Keith writes:
It’s time to buy my 17-year-old son a car; my wife’s previous car (a 2000 Mercedes E320 wagon) has cost us more than what it’s worth in maintenance one time too many. For his car, we’ve established two possible paths: a beater for now, or a moderately nice used car for now and later (through college.) For this beater, he’s narrowed the list down to just the 2001-06 Elantra, and the 2000-04 Ford Focus. For a nicer car, a 2005-08 Scion tC or 2004-07 Mazda3 seem to be ideal. Which path do you think would be best to go down? Are there any choices we’ve overlooked?
Steve Answers:
The path that leads to the better prior owner. Any of the four will be perfectly fine…except for the Focus in its earlier model years. The first few years Ford had to smooth out a lot of glitches. There is rarely a Focus at the auctions from the 2000 – 2002 model years that doesn’t vibrate due to cheap motor mounts, plastic fittings and the like. I would also add that the three door hatchbacks had very bad side impact scores.
My answer really depends on your budget and his maturity. If you’re looking at around $5k, I would consider a Focus sedan from the 2004 to 2005 model years. If your price hits the $7k level I would opt for a well kept Elantra hatchback.$8k and above I would go straight to the Tc.
However, I would also encourage you to take a look at your son and ask, “Would I give him $5000… $7000… $8000, etc.” You are essentially ‘giving’ him a vehicle, and more than likely paying the insurance, gas, and other operating costs. Nothing wrong with that. But if he has issues that would give you pause to that question, you should wait a while before buying that car.
Sajeev Answers:
You did well narrowing down the field, looking for alternatives only makes sense after exhausting these options in the local market. But wait: where’s the line between beater and “moderately nice” used car? Yes, the Scion and Mazda3 are better, but will your teenager actually appreciate the difference?
I’d avoid the tC because of high insurance rates (at least in my county) and the unfortunate stigma associated with their owners. Who probably created the high insurance rates in the first place? Maybe.
I rather like the choice of a 2004-ish Focus, in any trim level. The steering was disturbingly perfect for such a cheap and utilitarian vehicle and the later models were not plagued with recalls. Quite honestly, add a little SVT magic on the suspension (shocks, swaybars, wheels, etc) and the most mundane Focus LX Sedan would run with those more expensive alternatives, if not blow them away in the corners. Sounds like a perfect case of having your cake, eating it too.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
I find the tC loathsome. Not because it’s a particularly bad car, it isn’t, but because the people who drive them are maniacs.
The Focus seems like a good bet, but you could probably pick up a 2000+ Taurus with the 3.0L Vulcan engine on the cheap too. Then you’ll have a far safer vehicle for the young driver (not nearly as fun though).
My insurance man always advised me to surround my son and daughter with as much metal as possible. Our daughter got our 1990 Acclaim, which she wrecked three times, and when I got tired of fixing it myself, and when she learned to be a good driver, we got her a 1997 Cavalier, which she never wrecked and our neighbor bought it and drove it for years. They did bump it around a bit, though. Not sure where it is now. Now she drives her Trailblazer and loves it. Lessons learned, but I hated to see the Acclaim, my ‘baby’ go out that way, but it served us faithfully for 10½ years. So, don’t let your young driver start off with a small car unless you know it’ll do well in an accident and serve as adequate protection, “just in case”.
Oh, disagree. Nothing scares me more than a teenager texting in a Suburban or changing lanes in a vehicle with limited visability. I’m not going to rehash the arguement but bigger is not always safer. There are many postivies to driving a smaller car that has good visability, can stop quickly, can avoid situations, and that isnt a threat to other drivers, not to mention instilling the idea that one does not need to be in the biggest vehicle on the road to be safe.
I think we need to redefine our terms.
Anything that requires comprehensive insurance is not a “beater”.
There is a very good chance this car will be beat to hell by this teenage driver, the first car should therefore be safe, reliable, cheap in that order.
Nothing he might consider showing off in. Make sure he takes care of it and encourage him to check the fluids and tires often.
Second car should be an upgrade, only if he treats car #1 well.
Having 3 sons who have gone through this stage and ruined a variety of perfectly good automobiles (without injuring themselves or anyone else, thank God) I can say that this is excellent advice.
My only additional comment would be to say that car #2 should be purchased with wholly or at least partially son’s own money. Nothing like having a little skin in the game.
Another vote fro this option. My definition of beater and yours are totally different. Unless that Elantra or Focus has significant body damage but good mechanicals, meaning you got it for under $2k. I also like the idea of getting a solid, cheap, and boring car. True, I knew people in school who would still try and “show off”, but in that case, you don’t help with an upgrade.
+1 on “skin in the game.” I bought an ex-fleeter 2002 Cavalier two years ago for $1000 from my BIL (he bought it from his company and passed it down to his own daughter). The company and my BIL took good care of it. Knowing where it came from made a big difference. Knowing it was a wheezer with 165k on the odo also helped – not the kind of car to race around in.
I drove it for 6 months while my son got through his licensing permit period and put some cash into it to make sure it would hold up for a while. I sold it to my son for the $1000. He treats it like it’s worth ten times what he paid for it. He pays for his own gas and insurance, and he landed a tutoring job to pay for that.
I’m teaching him how to maintain it. I’ll buy the oil and filters if he does the work.
Lots of life lessons for a young guy!
Hey, that’s my demographic! I’m a hatchback guy myself, so it’d be a tossup between the Elantra GT and Focus hatch on the lower cost spectrum. I’d probably go with the Hyundai after my parents’ positive experience with their ’00 wagon. On the upper end I’d say Mazda 3 since the insurance on the Scion will kill you and/or him. Gas prices with any shouldn’t be so bad so he could afford them (face it- a lot of 17-23 year olds drive pickup trucks, SUVs and full size cars (Panthers) as daily drivers, gas isn’t the problem!)
Mazda 3, Focus hatch or Elantra GT. Stock I’d knock out the Hyundai and Ford. Modified, it would go Focus or Mazda. Cheap to keep, Ford or Hyundai. Ask you son which one he wants, decide how much you want to spend and go from there.
Not to sound too negative or anything, but for a 17 yr old I can’t help but think about safety as much as anything else. Have you thought about an older Accord, a Ford Five Hundred, or even a Saturn Aura (not the sexiest vehicles, I know, and these may be just outside of the price range but at least he could carry more friends comfortably).
you don’t want a kid to be carrying a lot of friends. They are more likely to have an accident if their friends are in the car.
What David Holzman said.
I often think to myself that the best car for my son (who is currently three) will be something like a beige Volvo 240 (non turbo) with the rear seats removed. Safe, slow, not flashy, cheap and easy to fix, not too hazardous to other road users if he does bin it and with no rear seats, reduced opportunity for showing off to or being distracted by, his friends – which is the biggest danger with young lads, in my opinion. Did I mention that it has to be beige, the anti hoon color?
Call me nosy, but I have yet to receive a good answer, where is the requirement written that parents are required to buy their kids cars in the first place? I’m 22 and I have paid my own money for every car that I’ve driven, insured my own cars, paid for the maintenance and gas. Not knowing anything about the son I’d speculate, based on the fact that the OP is willing to drop multiple thousand dollars, that the son is probably a good student with decent grades and is presumably responsible. That being said I still can’t understand the impulse to buy the car.
There was a kid in my graduating class who decided that it was prudent to buy a then-brand-new 2004 Audi A6 for their son’s 16th birthday. Color me confused.
I think you are totally right, but in our case the “extra” car helps us too. By having a 3rd driver in the family, our daughter was able to run errands for us, drop off and/or pick up her sister and brother from activities, etc. Also, I now use her car if one of the other cars is being worked on, etc. Granted, its a luxury, by all means, and I know many teens who do not drive for this reason.
Several years ago, in a wealthy neighborhood a few miles from me, a dad bought his 16-year-old son a Dodge Viper. Kid you not. Of course, the son promptly wrecked it in a nasty accident. The judge would’ve thrown the father so far back in jail, he’d need air pumped in to breathe, if he could. Not a pretty situation.
“…a dad bought his 16-year-old son a Dodge Viper.”
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups?
What’s the point of being successful if not to provide well for your family?
I don’t consider it a prerequisite, or “providing well” for your family, to buy a car for your child. Let the kid learn how to save up for a car and care that much more for it. This is one the arguments that I hear a lot and it doesn’t ring true for me.
I don’t consider it a prerequisite, or “providing well” for your family, to buy a car for your child.
Well, many people do.
Let the kid learn how to save up for a car and care that much more for it.
For many kids, it’s hard to get all 5’s on your AP exams and play a sport, volunteer, play an instrument, SAT prep, etc. if you have to work. With the wold as competitive as it is, you can’t be wasting your time working at McD’s.
@jmo
“I don’t consider it a prerequisite, or “providing well” for your family, to buy a car for your child.
Well, many people do.
Let the kid learn how to save up for a car and care that much more for it.
For many kids, it’s hard to get all 5′s on your AP exams and play a sport, volunteer, play an instrument, SAT prep, etc. if you have to work. With the wold as competitive as it is, you can’t be wasting your time working at McD’s.”
While you and I disagree about this, I do respect your opinion. My point in posting this was not to disparage anybody. I am honestly curious. If the student in question is a good student and maintains good grades while performing extra-curricular activities and is otherwise a great kid then, by all means help with a car. I guess I saw too many students who were complete f— ups and were barely passing classes whose parents bought them cars only because they got their license.
Does that help you to figure out where I’m coming from. I enjoy sharing my perspective, which, as an upper-lower class person, is probably a lot different than yours.
Good students are those who I can understand getting a car for, since they’re trying hard to get somewhere. A complete f— up, not so much.
I guess I saw too many students who were complete f— ups and were barely passing classes whose parents bought them cars only because they got their license.
Strange that was my experience back in my school days as well. The good kids might have driven their parents’ car but none of them had their own until they earned enough money to buy it.
I guess I saw too many students who were complete f— ups and were barely passing classes whose parents bought them cars only because they got their license.
I totally agree.
My concern is that in the current ultra competitive environment, the responsible kids who are able to concentrate on school work and resume building end up so much further ahead than those equally responsible kids who feel obligated to work to support a car.
“if you have to work. With the wold as competitive as it is, you can’t be wasting your time working at McD’s.”
I’m mildly offended (tongue in cheek). Began my “career” at McDs the day I turned 16 and was eligible for a work permit. Today I work on wall street (doing honorable fund work–nothing shady). Always think fondly of McDs.
Take him to a good driver’s school, and see how he does. Then make a decision.
Wow, this one is right up my alley. I have dealt with this situation once already, and now have the next child I am working on now. I learned some VERY important lessons the first time around and I hope I can help.
My extremely responsible and almost perfect daughter turned 16 and we gave her my wife’s old car, a very very nicely kept Toyota Celica. It wasnt worth “too much”, but it was like showroom condition since we owned it since new. She showed plenty of responsibility and we felt she could handle it. 3 months later she wrecked it. Totalled. So the next car was less expensive… we found a screaming deal and spent $4k on a car worth around $7k. And here is where the lessons came in… I was paying $300 per month to insure those cars for her. Not even because of the accident… thanks to “accident forgiveness”, we didnt see an increase. But $300 a month is $3600 per year. Not too bad for a teenager driving a $9000 Celica, but crazy for a car that only cost us $4k, but admittedly is worth $7k. I dont want her driving around risking losing the entire car, so we paid.
Now, the next kid is in line for a car. My thinking is this: Do not buy a car that is worth more than $3700. Only put liability on it, which costs around $100 a month. I am saving $200 a month in a savings account for that child to use for a new car when they go to college. After they learn the rules of the road, after the potentially wreck the first car, after they learn about maintenance and curbs and all the other crap. No, it will not be a cool car like the Celica. It will not be fancy and it will not impress her friends. But most of thier friends dont even have cars, so who cares if they are impressed??? The second kid isnt too happy about the percieved double standard, but when she has an extra $5k or so in 2 years to use for something better, I think she will realize why it was a better choice.
And before you guys hammer me with “nothing is worth the risk of putting your kid in an old unsafe car” etc etc… bullcrap. I am not advocating putting them in deathtraps. An old car or a cheap car doesnt have to be unsafe or unreliable either. It just has to be a car that most people do not gravitate towards. Luckily, I live in FL, and we have thousands of elderly drivers that either die or give up thier cars and sell them. And no one wants them because they are almost never cool cars. They are white or gold, they are big, they are plush, and usually have wire wheelcovers and AM radios. But they are also well cared for, well maintained, and extremely low mileage.
I have found lots of Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Mercury’s… many late-90s Taurus, lots of Panthers especially, occasionally a Pontiac Grand Prix. My target is under $4k and under 80k miles, well kept. I told the kid I would spring for some nice wheels and a nice stereo, because almost any car looks good with custom rims, and kids are more concerned with the stereo than with the way it handles. No full coverage insurance and lots of rules and guidelines about where and when they are allowed to drive. I find literally dozens of possible options, we just arent ready to buy until summer so no point looking now.
Excellent comment. You pretty much nailed it.
I fully agree. Cars like the 1990s+ Ford Panthers or the GM FWD H/C platforms have four or five star ratings in crash testing and most have airbags and anti-lock brakes. They’re cheap to buy, generally fairly reliable (most of the bad ones have probably been junked by now), and any mechanic knows how to fix them cheaply. In addition, they’re comfortable but don’t really encourage hooning around.
@tonyola
1990s+ Panthers have five-star ratings, eh? Let’s see what the IIHS says:
“…During rebound, the dummy’s head extended part way out the open window and hit the B-pillar and then the window frame. Also, the driver’s seat tipped toward the door.”
The pre-2003 version’s frontal test was particularly good, because the airbag punches the driver’s head back into the b-pillar. Take a look at this video around :23 – Boioioioioing! Nothing says five-star safety like your head wobbling around like a water balloon…
…and then you have side impact, which was rated ‘poor’:
“Measures taken from the dummy indicate that rib fractures and/or internal organ injuries would be likely in a crash of this severity. Serious skull fracture and/or brain injuries plus serious neck injuries would also be possible, as well as fractures of the pelvis and left femur.. The dummy’s head was hit by the window sill of the driver door, producing high head injury measures.”
Here, take a look at what being “wrapped in steel” does for you. Nice, eh?
Anyway, yeah, if you look at those videos and figure, “Hey, good enough!” then, quite frankly, I don’t know what to tell you. I know everyone around here loves to love on the panthers, but seriously – no road feel, huge, ponderous, can’t get out of its own way, and horrifyingly unsafe. Yet half the people here are advocating putting inexperienced kids in them. Yikes.
Oh well, you could always go with something higher end. A late ’90s BMW has to be safe, right? I mean, it’s a top-end luxury car! Oh… well… maybe not. Well, maybe a 1997 Audi A4, then. Or maybe not.
There are plenty of safe cars out there, but making assumptions based on year or manufacturer or size is no better than rolling the dice. The 1998 Saab 9-5 is excellent; the 1998 Saab 900 is a horrible death trap. We’re not talking about a few percent here – we’re talking about the difference between being crushed and maimed and having a headache, for the same impact in cars of the same year and same price.
Do some research before you put your kid (or yourself, for that matter) in a car, rather than just beating your chest and saying that anyone who considers the issue carefully is an overprotective freak.
My gf’s daughter is a new driver, albeit at the age of 21. She wanted a $3000 car. I did the only responsible thing one can do for a new driver: Volvo 240. Paid $800 and another $200 to make it right.
Forget airbags and everything else. A Volvo 240 is the safest beater out there.
If memory serves me right, I believe one of the editors on this site has an old 240 with a huge wad of papers attached to it…
I hope that girl and her mother fully appreciate you. And not only is the 240 the safest beater out there (along with the 940, which my nephew drives); it’s cool.
I got my first car at 17 – a hand-me-down 1963 Rambler classic sedan with an aluminum straight six and Borg-Warner auto. I was responsible and cautious, and I still beat it to hell in less than two years. I needed a couple years to learn how to drive, what the limitations of the car were, and how to recognize the signs of impending mechanical doom. No matter what, the first car is not going to last.
Kids want smaller cars that are easier to maneuver, but boys tend to maneuver themselves into trouble, and piloting a big car can be overwhelming to a novice. Midsize and underpowered is the way to go. I’d be looking for an older Volvo sedan for the size, safety, and un-hoonability needed to keep a teenage boy alive long enough to learn those critical first years’ lessons.
Set aside 3000-3500 for the vehicle (2000-02 Taurus, late 90s Regal, Grand-Prix, Impala, 88 or Intrigue or an Intrepid. In other words something with enough crash protection in case of a biggie and with good availability of parts (especially external panels) at the breaker’s yard in case of a minor fender-bender.
The rest of budget invest into a advanced driver training, third party insurance with high liability limit and some cash to maintain the car – by all means do the tires, brakes and steering/wheel alignment.
Skip any Chrysler product with a 2.7L under the hood.
Skip any GM product from the late 90’s early 00’s with the 3.4L under the hood.
A 3.8L (no supercharger, this is a teenage boy) powered Grand Prix or W-Body quintuplet is a great beater grade first car; air bags, acceptable crash performance, not exactly a blazing ball of fire in the performance department, dirt cheap to fix, and the engine and tranny is basically bullet proof.
Buick Regal
Chevy Impala
Chevy Monte Carlo
Oldsmobile Cutlass (IIRC)
I’m almost in the age bracket, 22, and I have a Grand Prix and love it. My mom says it’s a land barge, but I don’t think it’s that big. I’ve had a number of cars since I started driving (none of them smashed) and realized that I like having doors in the back for loading and unloading people/crap. I had a coupe for about 3 years and constantly having to tell my friends who didn’t drive not to grind the seat-track got old after awhile. I’m hoping to drive this car into the ground.
No Panther love?
Please accept my apology for this oversight.
You beat me to it, Detroit-Iron. My teens are still driving the 93 Crown Vic that I bought from my mother a few years ago. The benefits:
1. Large with lots of crumple space for an accident. Also, has airbags.
2. Uses enough gas that your kid won’t be the one volunteering to drive everywhere.
3. Distinctive enough that your kid will not blend into the background. Pick one with an unusual color, and everyone will know who it is when they see the car. The dark plum color on my 93 Vic does this just fine.
4. The kid will learn the joy of driving a rear-drive V8 car. Seriously, they will have their whole lives to drive around in V6 and 4 banger front drivers. Give them another experience while you still can.
5. The old standby – cheap and durable. You can afford a lot of gasoline for the repairs that you will avoid with a Panther.
I’d agree on the Crown Vic if the Crown Vic had four cylinders and 110 HP. I remember being 16 and my friends at 16 – none of us needed anything with POWER. What we needed was a 100HP anything that got about 15 mpg so we could accelerate too fast and we’d run out of money before we had gone too far. I started out in a ’66 Mustang (yeah, no safety) with what was left of 120HP with a six cylinder and a three speed manual tranny that I bought myself, fixed up with Dad’s help and my money and which used so much oil that I bought it by the case. Driving it 30 miles to the other side of the county was rare.
Satistics indicate that the odds are, within the first 12 months, mayhem will strike (channeling the Allstate ads) and said first car will become first wrecked car. Or first backed into a pole car. Or first I didn’t realize when I was backing up I need to make sure my front corner doesn’t clip the car to my right car, or, I didn’t know that the engine additive my friend told me about would add 50 HP, exactly 1/4 of a second before my engine blew up. Honest.
I think you need to know only one word.
Panther.
Wrap ’em in steel. Good visibility. Reliable as the sunrise. Easy to care for. Not fast enough to drive it like an idiot, fast enough to respond in an emergency. A tad painful to feed to make the concept of, “is this trip really necessary,” sink in a bit better.
Give them 12 months. If the Panther survives then sell its remains and upgrade to the “nicer” car. I wouldn’t consider anything on your list of four as a beater.
Stay away from the tC, not that it is a bad car for what it is, the owner’s tend to make quite a errrr, statement that generally isn’t appreciated in broader automotive circles. The word douche comes to mind.
One last recommendation for your young driver. Take them down to a local SCCA Autocross, Porsche Club, BMW Club, Audi Club, Alfa Club, driving skills day. Tons of them across the country, typically under $100 (the events here are a steal at $55 for the entire day). I am going to make this mandatory post-driver’s license for both of my kids before I allow them to take to the road solo. Don’t go – you’re not driving while living under my roof.
Whatever happened to the hand-me-down car? Why should the kid get the new car? Be a proper enthusiast, use this as an excuse to get the car you want, and give your kid your old one. Otherwise, you’re not getting a new ride for a long time.
By the time my daughter is 16 and a half next year year and is eligible for her operator’s license, she will have been driving with me (using my vehicle) under her learner’s permit for almost a year. She will have about the same number of hours in her logbook as a typical new carrier pilot in World War II. When she goes to college in 2 and a half years, I will be investing more than $20k/year in her schooling alone. If I’m prepared to do that, why would I not invest in making sure she drives a safe vehicle?
I believe in family fleet management, meaning that each driver drives the vehicle best suited to the task at hand. I’m leaning towards a getting new or used Hyundai Sonata or a used Prius. I might spring for a new 2012 Ford Focus. Whatever new vehicle I get, Most of the time, my daughter will probably drive my current car, a 2006 Dodge Minivan. She won’t be driving that many miles, so the fuel bill shouldn’t be much of an issue. The minivan has full safety equipment, the insurance is not that expensive, and she will have experience driving it.
Whatever happened to the hand-me-down car?
Not a thing. When my son got his license, I purchased an old 1983 Ford Ranger as an extra car, as we were a two-car family. He took good care of it and never wrecked it. We both had fun working on the thing and took us hunting many times with all our gear plus the dog. Had a cap on the back. He eventually traded it even for a 1988 Dodge Daytona. Both vehicles were about worn-out, but the Daytona? Well, that was quite an adventure. He got a good education about car acquiring! Anyway, he fixed it up pretty nice ’til he could afford to buy a better car. My daughter? We gave her the Plymouth Acclaim and I got a used 1996 Ranger. Needless to say, she wasn’t so fortunate, but after a destroyed trailing arm and two other minor accidents later, she learned and she got a Cavalier, which she took good care of. Me? I did not have a hand-me-down car. My father wanted to give me his 1960 Chevy Impala, but as we were working-poor in those days, he needed it for a trade-in for the 1966 Impala he bought used. I had to pony up all of $75.00 for my first car – a well-rusted out 1952 Chevy. Later, I bought a well-rusted out 1961 Chevy Bel-Air. Then joined the USAF then my avatar. The rest is history!
My kid is not getting the G8. I love ’em too much, and I don’t mean the car.
Hand me down cars require years of planning and even then, that doesnt always go well. Our Celica was the hand me down car for my oldest daughter, and it was still too nice. She totalled it, and while I am glad she is OK, we really miss that car. Impossible to find in nice shape anymore. Our cars are generally too nice to pass on as hand me downs, although my youngest daughter keeps begging for my GTI. In 2 yrs it still wont be old enough… :)
Oh, and you might want to rethink that. Do you realize what kind of things teenagers can do in the back of a minivan??? :)
If you’re buying your kid the car how about an Escort ZX2? They’re coupes and look vaguely sporty, probably cheaper to insure since I think they share the mechanicals of the sedan (my dad had a 99 that was dead reliable until a car got in my oldest brother’s way), and it would be difficult to squeeze many people in there although I’m sure it can be done (fewer people-fewer distractions). They’re probably dirt cheap by now as well.
My first car was a ’99 Escort ZX2 which my parents drive now. It has over 100,000 miles on it and is still in decent shape. It was a fun, if noisy, little thing, but I don’t think I’d want to get into an accident with it.
Man, when I was that age…the answer was always buy a used Honda or Toyota. I guess that isn’t the case anymore. They were very economical, reliable, easy to fix, and offered enough of a “name” that kids didn’t mind if the Civic was 15 years old, they had a Civic!
I understand the idea of buying a beater because it will be wrecked, but that is akin to just throwing in the towel. I had my first accident at 19, slid on black ice into a curb. Had the car realigned and instead of replacing 1 steel wheel/tire…I bought 4 used alloys (factory).
It was a 1990 Integra, paid half when I was 17. Sold it when I was 23. Damned good car, and even though it was almost 10 years old…people thought it was cool that I had an Integra! Even up until I sold it. I guess that doesn’t happen anymore, it’s cooler to have an iPhone/Android! Part of going green, I guess.
You cannot buy any more used Hondas that are:
A. Decent but still affordable, they are all priced too high.
B. Affordable but not beat into the ground already.
B. Not already destroyed by other teens modding them and hooning them.
That’s too bad, I found quite a few when replacing our old Volvo back in October.
Granted, you had to weed through the bad Civics and Integras like you said.
Ended up with a 1998 3.2TL in mint condition for $4300, have only put $300 in for maintenance (fluids, belts, bearing). Granted, it has 130k miles and with the V6 it averages 22 mpg mainly around town. Still a sweetheart of a car and definitely was designed and engineered at Honda’s pinnacle.
While I appreciate the TL, I dont really consider $4600 for 13yo car with 130k miles on it to be all that spectacular of a deal, and certainly not “cheap”. At that mileage, even on a Honda product, things will be going wrong. For someone like myself who wrenches themself, thats not too bad. But for a teen’s first car, thats a bit of a stretch. My magic number is listed above… $3500 and under 80k… preferably, well under.
And kids dont think the TL is “cool”. They like Civics and Integras, but like you saw, those are very hard to find in anything resembling decent shape.
I guess we all determine a car’s value based on what we see. It was a deal to me, and to any research I did. I look at this way, I have a dependable car (yes, minor things will go wrong but not really an inconvenience to me) and it’s much better than any of it’s contemporaries. The selection of any decent car is limited in a smaller city (which I live in). I paid cash and half of my intended budget, which allowed me to renovate the kitchen ahead of schedule.
$3500 and 80k miles? There is nothing out there which is “cool” then…and with low-maintenance. I’d love to see that sweet-spot.
Stats say he’ll wreck the first car you give him. Make it disposable. I’d set the price at ~$2500 personally. It will require some work to make right, either cosmetic or mechanical, so get him involved in the repairs. At the lower price of entry, he’ll also have more of an ownership percentage of his own money in it. Older cars are easier and cheaper to license (at least here in GA they are) and usually cheap to fix. You’ll be fixing it a lot, as a 17 year old boy isn’t going to be easy on equipment either, even if he doesn’t bend it. (or, god forbid, puts it in front of someone who bends it for him)
We went through this process for my 16 year old niece. It was an utter falefest though, as the car was a mechanical basket case, a cosmetic downer, and a money pit, but her dad just had to get her that convertible. She wanted a truck. Take him shopping, have him pick it out, get him to keep it under the price cap. Good luck.
How about go one better and come up with a list of cars you would approve of and would be willing to part with your hard-earned cash for and then let him choose from that list?
Stats say he’ll wreck the first car you give him.
Well, then you’d probably be better of with something safe, unless you want to spend your retirement taking care of a vegetable.
Stats say he’ll wreck the first car you give him.
“Well, then you’d probably be better of with something safe, unless you want to spend your retirement taking care of a vegetable.”
JMO: You just hit pretty close to home with that comment. I’m not sure of the circumstances, but that very thing happened to an old friend’s brother. He lasted for too many years before he died. I believe the accident happened when I was in the USAF forty years ago and he died in the mid-1990’s. Truly a sad consequence for a moment of either stupidity or just plain mis-judgment/inexperience.
@Zackman
the kids certainly have a higher accident rate. Of course, the vegetable thing sometimes happens to responsible people who are much older, including an eminent university professor friend of my parents, whose head got banged, and whose wife ended up having to care for the equivalent of a four year old for the rest of his life–about 12 years, I think. And she did take damn good care of him… Very sad.
zackman,
It is a horrible thing. What I don’t think people realize that while nearly 40k are killed every year, 100’s of thousands more are injured in auto accidents each year. True many of those are minor, but many who are permanently and severely disabled. The tragedy is made even worse by the fact that some many of them are young adults.
Why not get the kid a slightly newer Focus than the 2004 model? I think you could get a 2005-2007 model for the same price for an earlier model. Plus the 2007 model supports MP3’s in the radio and presumable have the kinks ironed out.
The 2004 Focus still looked cool and the interior was nicer. The 2005+ was uglified and cheapened inside…
If you live at a high altitude (eg Calgary or Denver) don’t buy the focus. The brake booster loses vacuum at high altitudes and the brakes will be almost ineffective at a cold start…there is a TSB for it but it only slightly improves the problem, does not fix it. Issue was present in the 2003-2005 models.
Buy a car that balances out the fleet so each driver in the household can drive whichever vehicle makes the most sense on any given day.
That does make alot of sense. If you need an old pickup around the house, get a Ranger or the like.
Nice idea, but my kids are never driving my wife’s MR2 or my GTI!
My parents “gave” me the 1982 Chevy Celebrity that was worth all of $600 in 1993 when they did. Why did they give me a car? So the could take it away if they wanted to.
You want cheap? Get one of the last Focus Wagons, IIRC they stopped making them in 2007 and wagons have suffered catastrophic depreciation since the SUV/CUV craze. If he whines about it not being sexy, tell him; “If your car is keeping you from getting dates, then the car’s not the problem son. Just keep it clean and smelling nice inside.”
I think that I can do that one better. My mom gave me her Chrysler Aries K with auto when I went away to college and bought herself a used Nissan Sentra Wagon. The K car had a habit of dieing at inopportune times, like turning left into a parking lot (I probably did more praying in that car than in church). That was her contribution to my college education, and it was probably more than she could afford, given her salary. That’s why I’m saying if you can afford it, get him something. Just don’t spend much money on it; he’s almost certain to have at least a little fender bender, whether it’s his fault or someone elses. That goes for the best student who is the most responsible person you know. Experience plays a big part in avoiding accidents, and you don’t have that when you first start driving.
Yeah my parents went from a 1982 Celebrity to a 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme sedan. Bought the Oldsmobile with 56,000 little old lady miles on it. She was involved in a minor accident but bad enough to stop her from driving. My dad knew the guy who owned the body shop that bought the “wreck” from the insurance company. When he picked up the “new to him” car he asked the man how much he’d give us for the Chevy (rusted out, 100,000 miles, and needing an engine rebuild.) He looked the car over and told my father; “$600.” My dad turned him down (ended up finding another buddy to rebuild the engine for $800 bucks.) When we got home my dad told me; “If that man had said $800 you wouldn’t have a car right now.”
Looking back on that sequence of events it’s one of those things were even though your old man doesn’t say, “I love you” he’s really saying… “I love you. You’re as big a car nut as I am and I know you appreciate this.”
This situation says panther all over it
Large backseat + 17 year old male = “interesting times”
Skip the tC and Mazda3. Go with the Elantra or the Focus. Cavaliers are good choices too. Whatever you get, take a picture of a Geo Metro and glue it to the dashboard. Then tell the kid that if he wrecks this car, the next car is the one in the picture.
Yep, it should be expendable. The car, not your son’s life. So get something big enough to be relatively safe but doesn’t encourage reckless driving (which he’ll probably do even if he’s in a Greyhound bus). The last thing a teenage boy needs is a vehicle that will “blow the doors of other cars in corners”. Or that his friends will encourage be driven hard. Too bad it’s getting hard to find reliable four-banger Acclaims, Spirits, Dynasties and Centuries. The more air bags, the better.
In any event, you need a LOT of liability insurance. He might run a stop light and T-bone a car full of brain surgeons who have multiple young survivors.
And make sure he has at least some skin in the game. Even if you pay all the other expenses, raise his allowance by a reasonable amount for gas so that he has to weigh the financial consequences of pointless cruising.
Allowance? What’s that? What happened to raking leaves, babysitting and mowing yards? ;)
Seriously – i bought and maintained my cars with jobs like that.
I’d put my money on the Focus. Last summer I drove a ZX3 not unlike the one in the picture at the top of the article. Nothing about it promised to be interesting — fairly basic model, bland as white bread, automatic. I discovered, however, that the Focus is actually a really fun little car. It has sharp handling, a fairly responsive 2.0L engine, and a reasonably smooth ride. The interior could be a little better appointed, but it feels reasonably solid and is a blast to drive. Plus, with the hatch (ZX3 or 4…or even the wagon) it’s fairly versatile too.
A $7000 car is a beater? What world do you live in?
Like tankinbeans, I have bought, insured and maintained EVERY car I have ever owned since I got my license at 19. I had several part time jobs to pay for them. I finished high school well, got a diploma, got a degree and now have a pretty reasonable job.
I can understand parents wanting to help their kids out but c’mon, stick your son in a sub $1000 Volvo (safe and relatively reliable) and let him beat the hell out of it. It *will* end up wrecked.
Sounds like a perfect case of having your cake, eating it too.
I believe the original phrase was “eating your cake and having it too” although no one seems to use it.
Another thing to consider is what will happen to the car if four years of on-campus living is in the near future. My college actively discouraged cars, which I think is a really good idea. During my time I probably rode with a friend a dozen times in 4 years. Well, it was handy for that ride to the emergency room.
My father had a very offbeat way of teaching me motorized responsibility. At age 18 (1968), my particular passion was antique cars. I attended the local AACA chapter meetings (was by far the youngest guy there), my first serious car involvement was helping a member restore a 1930 Packard rumbleseat coupe. The summer of my 18th birthday I attended my first antique car show, the national Auburn Cord Dusenberg meet outside of Harrisburg, PA – and got to drive a Model J at 70mph on the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
So, for my first car, dad found me a clean, original, 1937 Buick Special two door sedan. Talk about self-control. You didn’t drag race, drive drunk, do too much crazy weekend cruising, etc., in a car like that. Not if you wanted to show it the following weekend. Of course I learned a lot of my own maintenance – it’s not like the local garage would know what to do with it, unless you supplied your service manual when you took the car in.
Had that car for about twenty years, but the vintage motorcycle passion had me too strongly at that point. But boy, could I drive a manual, and knew how to take care of a car.
When I was in high school and college, I really wished I had a truck or full-size van.
However, that doesn’t seem to be the direction you are going in for your son.
Whatever you get, take a picture of a Geo Metro and glue it to the dashboard. Then tell the kid that if he wrecks this car, the next car is the one in the picture.
Excellent! (touches fingers together like Mister Burns). Better yet, tape a picture of a transit bus to the dash. No self-respecting show-off wants to ever entertain the prospect of riding the “loser cruiser”….
As a 19 year old college student who lives 5 1/2 hours from home (School in Atlanta, from Charleston, SC), I can personally vouch for the awesomeness that is the Ford Focus. I managed to find an ’05 Focus SE (midrange with alloys, fogs, and cruise) sedan, with 39,000 miles for a smidgen over 6K out the door as the graduation gift from my parents with the understanding this was a gift and what I would have until I bought my own car. It handles long commutes and around town driving like a champ, gets 34-35 on the highway if I drive 65 with A/C off. The sedans do have a high trunk (slightly more difficult to see out of) and the car sits high for a compact car (I sit with the seat all the way down, am 6’1″, and feel like I’m driving a mini-crossover). I reccomend ’05-’07 due to the Duratec vs. the Zetec (more torque, and smoother powerband).
My thoughts..it depends on your son…is he a good kid, popular or is he more of a geek who’s street cred & image might get him a little bump with some cool wheels,(especially with the ladies)? If so and you’re a cool dad, which I assume you are since you’re on a car site, he deserves the Scion first if your wallet can handle it, then the Mazda. If he’s the type that could care less about cars, probably the Focus. But remember pops, college is at least 4 years, probably 6 years. With the Toyota you know he will have a reliable car that won’t need an alternator, transmission or window regulator every 18 months like the Ford will. With the Toyota, you can feel good that he will be safe, the car shouldn’t break down and he will have a sense of pride by driving a neat whip. He too might turn into a car guy (Sorry Mom). Sending him off in a Focus would be the equivilant to our parents giving us the old family Pacer back in the day. Give him some good car memories for his teen years.
I personally feel that a good Focus is cooler than a Scion Tc. The SVT is a great little driver, has more personality and performance… and they are almost as cheap as a regular Focus. Even the regular ZX3 is a sweet little ride. The Scion is a hairdressers car.
And no one says cool cars have to be expensive. There are lots of cool older cars… mid-90s Mustang GT comes to mind, although even a slow Mustang GT is a bad choice for a teens first car.
Sometimes though, safe and reliable are hard to combine with cool and fun at the lower price point. If you can afford the hit to your wallet, good for you, but I think its a waste of money.
And finally, it doesnt really matter how reliable the car is when it gets wrecked 6 months after the kid gets it.
Keith.please keep in mind that all these geezers are telling you just the horror stories about their friends uncles neice totalled any car they drove….yeah, like the other guy said…wrap ’em in steel like the 58 Plymouth wagon icon hereor an old Crown Vic.
There are many many many responsible teens that go off to college, get good grades and treat their cars with respect. I toook care of my Trans Am, while 4 of my frat brothers wrecked theirs….if you have a great son…get him a great car.
I must be getting web content from a different planet too. Professional couple here still driving our 2001 Focus ZTS, and we don’t consider it a beater.
I’m in the camp that favors punitive vehicles for those who can’t pay their own bills. Brown 1999 Escort wagon FTW.
Definitely cheaper older car, preferably slow and a AAA card. 4 cylinder with good mpg is preferable. In addition to the car, enroll him in an advanced driving course of some sort. whatever car you get him, toss in the Haynes or Chilton manual for the car in the back seat.
Old CorollaCamry 4banger. Hyundai Elantra is a good choice but make sure you issue him a box of replacement sensors to take up to school. Honda is just an invitation for him to waste money on aftermarket shennanigans and ups the risk of theft. Older base model Cobalt isn’t too bad. Hell…even an Aveo or Suzuki Aerio (think they were available with awd).
Speaking of AWD…if he is going to a snowy town. Base model Imprezza.
Give him a shitbox, the foundations on how to drive it and the means to fix it himself when it gives him a problem. AAA card is there for when it leaves him stranded and the drivers course will teach him how to properly handle a car in emergency situations.
Pink Ford Aspire.
Evil. I suppose he could talk to Mr. Baruth about that one.
“Pink Ford Aspire.” Ha ha ha!
If you’re going that way get him a Pinkly Taurus. Finding it will give him good life lessons in the years to come.
i’m surprised at the lack of Tiburon/Impreza RS recommendations in this thread.