TTAC Commentator Astigmatism writes:
Dear TTAC: After six months of commuting by bus from New Jersey to Manhattan, I’ve decided to treat myself by buying myself a car (my wife commutes with our 10-year-old RX300), getting a monthly parking space through my company and driving into work every day. Please don’t try to talk me out of this decision: the buses are routinely late, stop at every corner between my house and the highway, take me to the wrong part of town, and generally take at least twice as long all-in as driving in the few, blessed days when I’ve driven to the office.
Criteria: mid-sized (smaller than the RX, larger than, say, a Jetta), comfortable and quiet on frequent highway runs to see family in New Hampshire, either front- or all-wheel-drive (New Hampshire again), and of course decent mileage. No manual transmission given the commute, and I won’t be carving up back roads, but after slogging around in the RX I would love something less floaty and at least a bit more engaging to drive. Price: my plan was to spend about $10-12k in cash up front, and I could stomach either a small financing charge or occasional maintenance after that, but probably not both (I can afford it, just would feel irresponsible spending over $20k all-in over the next few years). I actually don’t need it to be the most reliable thing in the world, as we have a mechanic in the family who’s managed to keep the RX ticking happily at 270,000 miles, and if my car breaks I can always take the bus again while it’s in the shop.
Unfortunately used TSX’s seem to be holding their value a little too well, or I would have settled on one long ago, and leasing a new one won’t work because I’ll blow the mileage limits. I’ve considered a 2004-5 Saab 95 Arc or Aero (probably the current front-runner; my first car was a 9000, I love the seats, I think they’re a steal once they’ve depreciated) and a new Mazda6 (I’m shying away from the Sonata because of its ubiquity, and because I’m not convinced it won’t tank in the resale market). But I feel like I must be forgetting something. Am I? Or am I just being unrealistic? Please help!
Sajeev Answers:
As the part-time caretaker of a 2003 9-3 Vector, I’ve learned the unique pitfalls of buying a pre-2007 model with little to no service history. The later models have more reliable GM electronics, but look far less SAAB-y. Even some local gurus grudgingly admit that SAAB cut far too many corners on the older Epsilon-SAABs: the fragile plastic holding the parking brake assembly to the chassis is but one concern I learned during our last cold spell.
So go for a 2007+ SAAB 9-3, if you must. I love and completely mistrust these sassy Swedes, but I’m terrified by the lack of underhood access with turbo V6. For the sake of that “mechanic in the family” stick with a more basic I-4. With my rudimental understanding of the Epsilon-based SAABs in mind, they are still on the bottom of my short list.
Check out a nicely loaded Mazda 6, Honda Accord EX or Nissan Altima: these give better long term bang for your buck. If you need more style, an older Infiniti G35 (Jersey Shore references notwithstanding) or Lexus IS300 is a smarter move than the SAAB in terms of money and performance. Plus, rear wheel drive for more fun. And if it really snows that bad, you can always take the…ahem…bus.
Steve Answers:
Front wheel drive cars with excellent tires would be perfectly fine. I spent a lot of time in upstate New York and most folks get along perfectly well with this combination. The options for a good 10k to 12k vehicle with only front wheel drive are practically limitless. So I’ll just recommend that you find out what the actual owners have to say about a given vehicle instead of focusing on new car reviews.
As for AWD cars, there’s a lot out there and much of it is not nearly as popular as the conventional FWD models. I would toss in the 2006 Ford Fusion AWD as a potential commuter car. The Mercury Milan was also available with AWD and that may have a lower cost in the marketplace. Given your orientation towards the TSX, the Milan may be a bit too conservative for you. There is also the Subaru Legacy AWD which is a pretty good all around vehicle although it is also a bit pricey.
Among my top choices, the 2006 Saab 9-2X AWD and its Impreza kissing cousin are taut drivers but are probably closest to the TSX. Then there is also the 2006 Volvo S40 AWD (and the V50 sibling) which would be a bit more luxurious. If I were looking for AWD consider and didn’t have to worry so much about maintenance, I probably would opt for the Volvo’s first and foremost. They have the best seats and interiors of the group. Along with a sporting character and a fairly quiet ride compared with the others.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
My 200 Saab 9-5 was a nightmare as far as electrical failures were concerned. If it was an electronic part, then it failed. Sometimes multiple times as in the Ignition Module, ABS module and drive-by-wire throttle body (4 or 5 replacements at hundred$ each). Plus in my 9-5 Aero, the seats were so low to the floor, you felt as if you were sitting on the floor with your legs straight out in front of you.
It really is consistent. Blown DIC means you didn’t you grease. Learn to lube.*
A 9-5 is a far far nicer car than an older 9-3. There are some cheap shortcuts in my 900, but overall the 9-5 is a far better car.
As a plug, I’ve always bashed SAAB for being a bad car in the cold. Only time electronics act up for me (lights, ABS relays) is in 5-10F weather. The heated seats are not as good as others. But after driving on an unplowed stretch of i-79 yesterday with bald summer tires — it was a funeral, and I had to get there — the overall stability of the platform and ability to correct errors was amazing. The night did end with a slide down an icy hill that lead to a large rock. Of course, it was either the swedes or the guys at the Om Shiva gas station who led me, after digging out this morning, to find no visible damage. Still scraticing my head about that. I was sure it was punctured.
* or find a mechanic who knows the joy of dielectric grease and resistor plugs.
My 200 Saab 9-5 was a nightmare as far as electrical failures were concerned.
In all fairness, pretty much all manufacturers suffered reliability problems shortly before the fall of the Roman empire.
Perisoft, that was good.
Contrarian, I share your pain.
Though my electrical gremlins live in a 9-3 of a more recent vintage.
I’ve had the ABS, Stability Control, and even the stereo unit all go bad. The reason the Saab dealer gives for each electronic failure (and replacement): “They do that when it’s cold.”
At first, I freaked. Seriously? They make these things in SWEDEN. Right here, on the door, says Trollhattan. Which is Swedish for “Like Buffalo, NY, only Swedish.”
Does no good to complain. The gremlin grins and goes back to creating squeeks and rattles till he finds something serious to infect.
I will say this: it’s a great car in snow and ice. So, I guess there is some proof it’s made in Sweden.
In the end, I think the Acura was the better choice than either a Saab 9-3 or 9-5.
Oops, that’s "2000 9-5"
How about a Honda Accord Hybrid? 255 hp and 30 mpg with leather lined luxury!
http://autos.yahoo.com/used-cars/honda-accord_hybrid-cars363071564?sortcol=price&sortdir=up&location=New+York%2C+NY+10011&listingtype=used&model=accord_hybrid&make=honda&distance=50
Failing that, I would shop around in the suburbs for a private listing 5 year old Accord EX 4-cylinder that hasn’t had to deal with the long distance commute. Something with low miles that was driven by a housewife would be nice.
CJinSD
You DO know that those cars were GARBAGE.
Honda tried to make hybrid synonymous with power and luxury.. which is why they placed it at the top of the price list for the short time it was made.
It was vastly overpriced. It didn’t do the hybrid / economy job the way it was designed, or the way the market for a car like that would work (See Sonata, Fusion or Altima b.s hybrids for more info). Depreciation smacked Accord hybrid HARD in the face with a 40lb iron frying pan. The leather seats don’t matter, not when paired with the standard seat heaters / coolers that are part of the semi-luxo package. These standard options paired together make the concept of the hybrid COMPLETELY MOOT. The power ya WASTING on running the extra load ya could be saving working out the 2.4ltr 4cycl that Honda also sold (and has a majority in sales.)
If Honda designed their motor the way Hyundai has it currently (with a engine for current Accord as a big as the one in the coming Civic (2.4ltr) designed to get Civic’s stick highway fuel economy).. their hybrid vehicles might be worth a damn. But they aren’t.
And as for low miles..
It REALLY doesn’t matter AT ALL what miles ya find on cars like these. Ya can go out and find any Accord pre8th gen with 90-110k mi, do the belt job for ($600) and you’ve got a solid car that will last 100k with virtually no work.
I’d look for a 2003-2007 4 cylinder Honda Accord EX instead of the hybrid. The 4 uses a timing chain instead of the belt, eliminating one significant used car cost, and the weak automatic gets stressed less with the smaller engine. Find one with an owner who parked his Accord in the garage at night and had the transmission fluid drained and replaced a couple times. Relatively expensive to buy as used cars go, but maintenance costs are low.
The point of the Honda Accord Hybrid was that it combined mileage slightly better than the 4 cylinder Accord with performance slightly better than the V6 Accord. When it came out, there were still at least some places where a hybrid badge was a free pass to use HOV lanes. Northern Virginia was crawling with Prii and Civic hybrids driven by people who had been driving luxury cars or premium SUVs until the luxury they craved most was driving in the HOV lanes with no bothersome car pool. The Accord hybrid was perfect for exploiting that market, but then the HOV lanes became practically as jammed as I95 thanks to the plague of hybrids. Still, the Accord Hybrid was the first one to combine engine stop with an A/C compressor driven by an electric motor to maintain passenger comfort while saving fuel in the East Coast’s often sweltering grid lock. If they were priced too high when new, today they make a hell of a lot of sense for $15K with less than 60K miles. They still get better mileage than compromised cars with agonizingly awkward CAFE gearing and turbo DI engines that will be recycled before the Honda needs its first repair.
CJINSD:
It really doesn’t matter at all what lanes the vehicle can drive in because “its a “hybrid”. People in California are getting their panties into a twist because of the legal issues surrounding HOV lanes and the EMPTY = 1 pass hybrid in the lane. Ya have to have 2 people in the car to qualify for the little “hybrid” sticker. In reality, they should have to cart around 4 people to make it a HOV lane, knowing full well that the average for a car to be holding during commute times is TWO people. The Accord is 1st’s Honda’s first and LAST midsized attempt at a botched job using the Accord frame and their IMA system. Honda also caught a viscous load of crap from ANYONE reviewing the car based on the ill gotten concept that you can get “performance” out of a hybrid.
As for as the CAFE gearing and D.I motors is concerned…
You’d actually have to PROVE that a the Accord hybrid motor gets better fuel economy than a DI motor. The Accord hybrid failed miserably because they priced it far too high (at the top end of the V6 range = to a stripper TL of same m.y) and paired it with leather and all of the options. The DI with dual / constant variable valve on intake and exhaust from Hyundai EASILY gets into the 40s without even using the b.s start stop unit. The best Honda can hope for for their 4cycl is 30mpg. Honda could have kept up with the times and engineered a motor worth a damn, but its well known Hyundai takes the 40mpg CAFE average, WITHOUT a hybrid.
In case ya didn’t know..
Performance requires actually DRIVING the car to 10-10ths of its designed limits. Ya not doing burnouts. Ya not doing stoplight runs. Ya not even taking on and off ramps at a decent highway clip while chirping the tires. Ya not doing anything that actually could be equated with performance. Performance isn’t why ya buy a Accord in the first place. It is also not why ya buy an hybrid Accord, which is exactly the opposite that Honda marketed the car. When the closest hybrid ya got from Honda is the Civic (same concept) with the rest of the market using 4cycls attached to established nameplates, this goes against the grain. The motor as designed has about 20% more utility. but its negated by the extra weight and or complexity it carries around.. plus the added “luxury”. Leather seats with the extra power equipment in a “performance hybrid” such as the Accord really hamper the vehicle’s purpose / point. Ya could do A LOT BETTER with a LOT less.
In the end,
Find a 4cycl Accord in the 60-80k range and get it checked out for belt issues. The hybrid is a waste of time. The price at any mileage really negates the point. Stick a decent 40mph d.i with current technology equal to Hyundai in their Sonata or Ford in the coming Focus and youve got a point.
The problem with intergalactic geared cars like your beloved Hyundai is the real world mileage is less than spectacular. Car and Driver got 24 mpg on a 400 mile trip in the 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.4 DI compared with 26 mpg in the Accord Hybrid during a short take track test. People who buy all these make believe 40 mpg cars will learn what us old guys learned about CAFE induced rating inflation thirty years ago. The end result is cars that are much worse to drive without actually reducting fuel consumption. Just look at the Fiesta and Mazda 2. The Fiesta is ‘optimized’ for the EPA test and it is a slug. The Mazda 2 has ‘crummy’ EPA numbers but reviewers love the way it drives. Not completely incidentally, the Mazda 2 also gets better real world fuel economy than the much higher rated Fiesta. The Cruze is another car that only performs well in a lab. On the road, it is slower and thirstier than old standards like the Corolla and Civic. Perhaps you’re live and learn, but maybe not. How many times do people need to tell you that Honda hasn’t put belts on 4 cylinder engines for a couple generations?
California isn’t the only place with HOV lanes. I lived in Alexandria Virginia in 2004-2005 and hybrid sales were moslty(99+%?) driven by free range on the HOV3 lanes there. No stickers were required like in California, just hybrid badges. I’d moved by 2007, but I heard from a friend who still had ties there that he knew of Civic Si sedans getting cosmetic makovers to look like Civic hybrids, so I guess the rules didn’t change too fast. Your definition of performance has nothing to do with commuting. Dealing with beltway and surrounding freeway gridlock means massive amounts of stop and go combined with occasionally needing to go from 0-50+ mph in a couple seconds to escape your stalled lane for the one moving freely, when merging onto the interstat for instance. The Accord hybrid is still perfect for grid lock slogs. It is as comfortable and quick as a TL, a G, a 5, or a Buick, but it doesn’t waste fuel when your becalmed on I95 south on a Friday afternoon. It doesn’t seem to carry much of a premium anymore, but it still provides luxury, speed, and economy. You seem confused about the point of the car. The point was to make a car exactly for people like Astigmatism who had nasty urban commutes and wanted the luxuries they were accustomed to combined with good fuel mileage. It turns out that most of them were badge conscious, so Lexus wound up selling them RX400h’s and HS250s instead.
CJiNSD:
I personally don’t drive Hyundai cars for other reasons.
The car wasn’t designed to the merits as you believe. Not at all in fact. It was Honda’s attempt to make a hybrid, but they priced the option too high, at the end of the price spectrum.. when a hybrid is supposed to be a choice against the 4cycl, not a option packaged with a 6cycl.
Ya still better off in the 4cycl Accord in the EX trim = leather.
Honda had the Civic hybrid for people who wanted something affordable. The Accord was meant to be a different kind of hybrid. It was a sales flop, but that just makes them bargains today. 4 cylinder Accord EX models only have leather if they’re the EX-L versions.
I think you should stretch your budget a little bit and get the TSX.
If you can’t, I’d say last-gen Mazda6s or current-gen Mazda6i.
The Geo Metro. After all, it’s not the bus.
Better solution — move out of New Jersey and into Manhattan.
That would certainly make a $20,000+ car budget look like small potatoes!
The problem with that is that the roads are clogged with cars from New Jersey.
If you go Saab, go Saabaru. It’s small, nimble, Fuji-Heavy reliable, sure-footed, economical.
Do not.
Not.
Get the Saab-Saab. 9-5, no. 9-3, no. Been there, done that, got bleacher-ass from sitting in the dealer service waiting room so much.
When the stereo stopped working? “Oh, they do that when it’s cold out.” Really? Isn’t it made in Sweden? Complete replacement.
When the stability control sensors freaked out and locked the car down? “Oh, that happens when it’s cold out.” Really? Trollhattan, average snowfall, comparable to Buffalo, NY. Complete replacement.
When they did it again? “Sometimes it takes a couple tries.” Replacement.
When the ABS sensors tweaked out? “Sometimes they do that when it’s cold…” Save it. Really. I’ve heard it enough. Just get on with it.
When every light on the dashboard would just come on and flash indiscriminately and the car would no longer start? “What was the temperature outside? Just pull over somewhere safe; turn everything off. Then try again. Should reboot.” Pull over. Yeah. In rush hour. Look, there’s a moose. I’ll pull over next to him.
On the good side…nice, supportive seats. Decent handling car. Quick pointing, straight tracking, sensational on snow and ice. Good efficiency. Moderate torque steer under heavy acceleration. 4-cylinder turbo fairly peppy given its diminutive size.
But reliability? Pull up a chair. You’re gonna be here awhile. Specially when it’s cold out.
Good recommendations in general, but based on what I’ve heard, the 2004+ 9-5 is the Saab to get – the 9-3 seems to have too many endemic electrical gremlins, no matter the year. Of course, the 9-5 has a few of its own problem areas, but they are more predictable.
Also, the Fusion triplets weren’t available with AWD until the 2007 model year; 2006 was FWD only.
Nevertheless, both Steve and Sajeev have some good suggestions!
Thanks guys! I appreciate the advice, and particularly had never thought about the S40 AWD, which in retrospect seems like it would have been a great choice.
However, I should in all fairness provide an update, as I submitted this a while ago and eventually gave up hope of getting a response. After getting a raise and a bonus I ended up stretching my budget a bit, and after test driving a bunch of cars ended up looking at CPO Saab 9-5s for around $19k and CPO Acura TLs for around $22k. I liked the 9-5’s space, speed and fuel economy but hated the de-contented interior and thought it was a bit loud on the highway and a bit numb in the steering column; I liked the TL’s steering responsiveness, interior (a million times higher quality than the Saab) and reliability. I figured that I could bank the extra $3k against maintenance costs if I went with the Saab and that the money was therefore a wash, but eventually I found a 2008 CPO TL with 36k miles for $19,990, and grabbed it pretty much on the spot. I haven’t looked back – I love this car.
I talk up Saabs a lot on this site, and think they’re about the best you can do in the $10k range, used, but in the CPO market it’s pretty important that the company will be around to back up the certification, and I wasn’t at all convinced that Saab would be.
Plus, I can get the Acura serviced at my local Honda dealer, an oil change costs 20 bucks, I get Acura loaners… I said that I’d jump at a TSX if I could afford one, and it turned out I could afford a TL. Problem solved.
The S40 is mighty tiny – certainly smaller than the new Jetta. It’s not an issue if you’ll never use the back seat, but it is in conflict with your initial requests.
Congrats on the purchase!
The TL is a good choice as it offers great performance and a nice highway ride (Accord underpinnings of course).
That’s pretty much what I would have done… buy some middle-of-the-road example of Japanese reliability and call it a day. No way I would trust something like a Saab, VW, Audi, etc. to get me to & from work.
A lot of experienced commuters would have gone down-market, though, to a Civic or a Corolla (or to a domestic – these offer the best value second-hand… with a Japanese car you always pay for what you get). As you’ll discover, commuting is an unexciting activity that destroys your car and is best done at low cost. It’s not just the wear & tear of stop/go driving, or the salt; accidents and close calls are common.
I recently test-drove on ’06 TL with a manual tranny and loved it. Much nicer shift action than on my Z3.
FWIW, I thought the front seats on the TL were superior to the front seats on my ’02 9-5 Aero wagon.
The Acura is an excellent choice. You’re going to be spending a meaningful percentage of your week in the car, so it might as well coddle you! I completely understand why you pulled the plug on public transportation. I lived a block from a subway stop in Manhattan, and after a year I still gave up and paid for a taxicab every morning. Involuntary frottage participation in the summer, plague sufferers coughing wetly in your face in the winter, and foul smelling proles year round make public transportation as much fun as sharing Thanksgiving with a vegan.
Last year, I ended up with an ’05 9-5 arc, 58k and CPO through fall ’11, for 9k. Last year before M. Night Shyamalan’s The Decontenting, but new enough to be free of almost all elec / sludge issues. Slate the ’02 through ’09 9-5s for being an old platform, but membership has its priveliges.
Anyway, for 9k, it couldn’t possibly be beat. Even a stripper Camry would have run more, for more mileage, no CPO, and definitely no kick-ass sound, rain sense, park assist, (fantastic) dual zone climate control, heated seats, auto-dipping right hand passenger mirror… Etc etc.
I love the thing. It can’t match the ng9-3s for pure driving, sure. But put 7.5″ wide low-profile 17s on it and it’ll snap your neck well enough – and it’s a hell of a pleasant place to be.
And I could afford it.
Or I could have paid 4k more for a brand new Yaris with no radio and the same tires they put on hotel baggage trolleys.
Nice call on the TL.
When gas hits $4.50 a gallon you may be SAABing for the bus.
John
I have a friend with an ’07 Saab 9-3 and it’s litterally falling apart piece by piece. Interior pieces and knobs breaking, the door doesn’t close properly because one of the hinges keeps slipping out of place due to bad factory adjustments. The hole where the hinge mounts was reamed too large while adjusting and so the hinge moves around when you close the door. He has to take it to get adjusted once every 6 months or so. They tried replacing the part of the body it mounts to but then they couldn’t get the door to close at all and had to put the bad part back on. My friend was not the least bit pleased. His warranty is up next year and he is ditching it.
My friend may just have bad luck with cars as he also had a brand new ’06 Corolla that got lemon lawed for electronic problems that the dealer couldn’t fix. He bought the Saab after finally being rid of the Corolla.
Overall the Acura TL is an excellent choice, I personally would have gone with an Accord for the milage and regular gas, but good choice nonetheless.
It seems that you are still a Saab-nut, totally understand you there, why not just buy an older Saab to drive around on weekends?
I commuted in a Volvo S60 FWD with the base five cylinder for almost ten years in metro Boston. The seats are simply spectacular. My current 328xi is not as comfortable and the ride is much worse. That 2.5L five cylinder is also an easy car to work on and is known for long life. I did a lot of maintenance, and I’m no mechanic. The Aisin Warner 5 sp automatic is decent. As a bonus, I could pull 30 MPG+ on the highway ad got 27-28 in mixed driving. These cars are easily in your price range. Many would be AWD with turbos. More performance, worse mileage. The handling is not TSX like, but isn’t embarrassing either. It can be fun enough to drive. Put some Nokian WRX all seasons on it, and it’s tremendous in the snow (I did just that).
This is my current vehicle, a FWD S60 with the 2.5 Turbo. Excellent, excellent car. Awesome seats, great handling, very good gas mileage, extremely reliable in the 4+ years I’ve owned it, and I put old snows on it this winter and got great traction; I can only imagine how well it will do next winter when I buy new snows for it (going with Nokians). 118K on it and it looks and feels like a car with 1/2 that mileage.
If all wheel drive is a must, have you considered the Infiniti G35x, VW Passat 4motion, or Audi Allroad? If you can get by with 2wd, a first-gen. Acura TL?
If it were me, I’d keep the bus pass, buy an iPad to read on the bus, and buy a 1997-1999 Boxster with low miles for the weekends – which can now be had for less than $15k.
Avoid the Allroad if he wants to stay away from the shop.
I feel the bus hatred, absolutely. Still I bet a month of the bridge and tunnel traffic, and Manhattan’s pockmarked roads, will cure you. So definitely start by renting to see if you can hack it.
Take it from me, the Saab 9-5 does not get thrilling gas mileage. Talking 15ish in gridlock, of which you will see much. It rides okay, more controlled and just as comfortable as a Camry or Accord, but a little loud.
But given the state of Manhattan’s roads I’d want a Panther, quite frankly. It’s not like saving the environment is your priority if you’re going to commute one-up five days a week, am I right? They don’t come cheaper to run than that.
as the former lessor of a 2002 9-5, please run as fast as you can in the other direction. transmission, suspension, and air con problems in my case.
saab’s urban gas mileage isn’t great either.
always regretted not going for an acura.
He asks about the 9-5 and I can highly recommend these as a 2005 9-5 Aero owner. Best and most reliable are the 2004/05 models with the 2.3T engine. The sludge issue was fixed from the factory and 230-250hp is a blast to drive. They often last 200K miles or more with mostly regular maintenance and minor repairs.
I am getting 25 mpg on average and 30 mpg on the highway is not uncommon. The 2006+ 9-5 has the facelift and more GM bits and pieces. But they are still an excellent value and can be had for about $14-$18K for lower miles cars. And those seats are the best in the business. Buy a Saab 9-5, you won’t regret it.
There also is a huge and very friendly Saab community to assist with any info and troubleshooting. I can highly recommend http://www.saabworld.net. :)
Boy, you aren’t kidding. These are a great deal. A cursory look at 9-5 listings in my area shows a bunch of 04-05 models with low miles (40-50K) at very low prices. $9500 for an 04 with 51K? $11000 for an 05 with 41K? Holy cow.
I’m not in the market for a car, but if I were I’d be all over one of these like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
As a current SAAB owner I thought I should chime in. Current car is a 2002 9-5 Aero 5-spd. I’ve got 118k on it and overall it has been fairly reliable. I love the size, and the seats are very comfy. Problems I’ve had include new o2 sensor, crankshaft positioning sensor, radiator bypass valve, and serptentine belt broke (my fault I waited too long to replace). Its fast and fun to drive. That said the repair parts are EXPENSIVE, and that’s why SAABs are so readily totaled. They are a very good deal on the used market because they depreciate so rapidly. If I were to get a used one I would want a very good service record.
Most parts are rather cheap as long as you stay away from dealers and stick with internets.
Not picking on Thompson2 here, just making a statement.
SAAB owners are cheap. They either couldn’t buy a BMW new, or they picked up a cheap SAAB on the used market.
And that behavior directly ties into the complaints about part prices.
Is $150 a lot for an O2 sensor? OK, you buy a generic one for $50 and splice it in. My radiator cost $250. Brakes, other consumables aren’t bad either. $20 for a SAAB OEM radiator hose is a lot — but it is good quality and lasts 12+ years. The $7 hose needed replacement in two.
SAAB SERVICE can be expensive. It is much better to get it done by people who know what they are doing. Again, not putting dielectric grease on your spark plugs will result in a $450 new DIC — and that is the one part, after 18 years of SAAAB ownership, I still flinch at.
Sajeev,
it really appears that SAABs are not your cappa and you should at least read up a bit before providing an advice on the topic – especially since your advice and expertise is so highly regarded. Otherwise you put yourself in a rather shameful position by repeating somebody else’s.. let’s call it “uneducated opinion”.
There cannot be more different cars made by one manufacturer than a 9-3 (2003-present) and a 9-5 (1997- some time around 2009). While the former is a disaster, especially in its pre 06/07 years and still quite eneven in quality afterwards, on the latter the two last years before 2006 GM-fication and silly goggles facelift produced extremely durable, high quality machine.
Its only shortcoming in terms of comfort would be excessive noise from the engine and ride harshness – especially on stock Pirellis. Also rear shocks last only optionally past 40K miles and… that’s about it. All other ills were addressed at 2002 facelift and through some minor tweaking in 2002-04, making 04-05 an absolute delight.
All you have to do to avoid burnt fingers and wallet at the time of purchase – shop wisely, have it thoroughly inspected and ensure the previous keeper was diligwnt with oil changes and oil grade (0-40 or 5-40/50 synt only).
Hmm, thought he said 9-3. Whoops, looks like I screwed the pooch.
Problems with 9-5:
1. Noise — both engine and highway wind
2. Terrible city mileage — 15 MPG!
3. “dated” interior.
The point about oil changes is very true, and hard to verify in many cases.
snabster:
The 9-5 has never been luxury.. always entry / pseudo luxury.
It might be performance.. which is where wind noise is acceptable. Its perfectly ok to get engine noise. Gives ya an idea what the motor is doing and or sounding. Isolated = cocoon is NEVER a good thing.
The interior design varies depending on which automaker ya buy it from. Often the most simplistic design lasts the longest.. while the tech shows its age quickly. Funny how the cheap relocated ignition switch doesn’t bother anyone. Funny how GM tried that tactic when making the T/B and Impreza a member of the “Saab” family.
Only valid complaint ya might have with the 9-5 is the city mpg, and thats either tied to the 2.3ltr Turbo motor or I believe there is a GM sourced 6cycl in there.
In the end,
That’s the price ya pay for a semi luxo, semi performance oriented, semi driveable, tire squealer of a car.
@snabster
While I agree on noise – to a point – I fail to see where your 15 mpg comes from. Never experienced anything lower than 19 here in Canada and 18 in crazy Moscow traffic in Russia(anything between a total gridlock and 110-120 mph).
Interior is certainly simpler than in, say, a TL of the same vintage. But I found it much more logical. And seats (I had Aeros) are light years ahead of any Japanese competition.
I just guess that if you are for whatever reason dislike the car, everything in it would annoy big way…
Let’s add my name to the long list of former-and-never-again Saab 9-5 owners. I drove a 2000 9-5 wagon (Gary Fisher Edition 4 cyl.) for 18 months from 2003-05. Had 49k miles when I bought it, 80k when I traded it in., Blew 2 (!) turbos, replaced the SID, shift interlock switch (it often wouldn’t start when warm because it didn’t think it was in park), and several electrical items. The engine was great as was the interior quality IMO, but I just couldn’t fathom another turbo replacement. We ended up trading it in on a new Saturn VUE (which we still have after 6 trouble free years)…
7 + trouble free years with my ’04 Vue.
An interesting side effect of GM shedding brands is that people burned by one GM car will be less likely to buy another GM car without realizing it.
Driving to Manhattan is insane. What is that going to do to your emotional well-being in the long term? If the city’s leaders had half a brain, they would have banned private cars from Manhattan a long time ago. Have you considered that it is literally absolutely impossible to drive following the traffic laws in Manhattan? Because if you can’t make it across the intersection, you are supposed to wait on the other side. But if you do that you will never make it into the lane that goes through the tunnels, not to mention you may be upsetting a few drivers behind you. Between the bus, the trains, and the PATH, there has got to be a better solution.
You may also want to consider that Manhattan is full of red light cameras.
Now don’t laugh…
Get a used Saturn Astra Coupe or a 4 door Saturn Aura.
Get a low mileage car, under 35,000 miles. They are out there at very reasonable pricing.
I see many examples on eBay today.
Astra Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XR-Factory-Certified-Manual-Hatchback-1-8L-OnStar-/220740756763?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item33652ca51b
Aura Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XR-3-6L-CD-Front-Wheel-Drive-Traction-Control-Fog-Lamps-/260740309095?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3cb5556067
They are really nice, reliable cars. Low cost service is easily available even though they are discontinued.
Parts are no problem either for the “do it yourself” person.
Much better than a VW, Saab, or Audi.
If you are not brand snobberish, the styling is actually very good. Also, they are not a common sight.
So debadge the Saturn, confuse everyone, and be exclusive.
Good choice on the TL. Back when I lived in Manhattan I test drove a new ’04 TL at Acura of Manhattan when we were car shopping back then. When you go for a test drive in the city you have to pull you car into the service bay where I promptly locked my keys in my car. Embarrasing. We went with a G35x and it’s still serving us well almost 7 years and 55k later. Sajeev, I never knew a G35 had Jersey Shore overtones. I do call it the Japanese Camaro sometimes (lol), come to think of it, mainly due to the placement of the shifter/console. Another nickname for it is “Son of Rotsun” after my 280Z that rusted so bad the engine fell out. I wanted a Saab too but I knew about the cliff depreciation and figured I was keeping this one for a while.
Finally got my Swede in 2007, a Volvo XC90 Sport. Great car so far, would recommend it. The best seats ever.
My parents have a 2005 Saab 9-5 2.3T wagon. It’s the mid-range Arc model, but has been fairly highly optioned (with the visibility package, 17″ Aero wheels, etc.) They bought it in 2009, off-lease, for $14,000. It had about 60,000 miles on the clock at that point. Since then, it’s been completely reliable in the 30,000 miles it’s driven. It’s their fourth Saab (two 9000s and an NG900) and has been as dependable and enjoyable as the rest. If you’re careful and do your homework, I don’t think you can go wrong with the 9-5 (9-3 may be a different story.)
Other considerations might include the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ. It comes with AWD and is a little less ubiquitous than the Fusion. You can get a good one in Canada for under $12k, not sure what the market is like in NJ.
I feel your bus pain. I really dislike busses. I have compensated by sound isolating earbuds. Best 50 bucks i ever spent! Especially since I can’t read on busses, I get motion sickness.
Where I am, I can drive, or take busses and subways – i truly hate the subway. Nevertheless, its quick. I can also take the train, i like the trains. The train as a little out of the way, tho. What I should do is drive to the train, but alas… i start out in the car on the way to the train, then i just drive anyway.
Mostly I drive, stupid I know – it works ok most of the time. I need to keep a lid on the road rage, and the wondering what in the world i was thinking of! i’d be HOME now if I braved all the snarling locals and rode the subway., instead im in this STUPID traffic jam.
A free parking space would be the clincher for me. But I would wonder if it was worth it if instead of that, they gave me the cash instead. I dunno.
Good luck. Be happy that you live with mutiple transportation choices. Most folks I know do not.
PS. Avoid flat tires on the jersey approach to the Lincoln Tunnel. Ask me how i know. Arg.