What do Dodge and Hyundai have in common, besides a Mexican Accent? They’ve both just unveiled large, V8-powered, rear-drive sedans at the Chicago Auto Show. I realize the whole “who would have thought Hyundai would be here by now” storyline may be getting a bit played out by now, but seriously, who imagined that Hyundai would be slinging a 429 HP rear-driver boasting a V8 with specific output of 85.8 HP/liter? Not this blogger. Of course, because the 2012 Dodge Charger SRT8 offers an extra 1.4 liters of displacement more than Hyundai’s new “Tau” 5.0, it makes a hefty 465 HP and 465 lb-ft of torque to the Hyundai’s 429 HP and 376 lb-ft… but then the big Hyundai beats even the 370 HP Charger R/T on fuel economy, getting 17/26 MPG. Oh, and the two cars couldn’t look more different either. The question: which will America prefer?
Welcome back, Ford Crown Victoria and Lincoln Town Car.
Panther Love, it’s so nice to see you didn’t leave entirely.
Do V8s with the power of a V6 (or, nowadays, an I4) really count?
I don’t know of any gasser V6 or I4 engines with the low (and flat) torque of a Panther’s V8. It’s not about the numbers, it’s about the feel. Some people like the lazy and hood lifting to one side feel of good ole V8 RWD acceleration, no matter how slow it really may be.
Speaking of Town Car, they’re still on Lincoln’s website. Check out the “interior” gallery, specifically the technologically-advanced portables in the center console shot. Exellence.
@psarhjinian: nice job falling for the peak HP vs. area under the torque curve big-car automotive fallacy. Panther Love will get you sooner or later.
You can fix a torqueless six with decent gearing. You can’t fix and eight that thinks it’s a six.
Revving all the way to V8 fuel economy when going slightly above highway speed limits, too. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
The broken record still turns.
The Genesis is GUTLESS compared to the new Charger and the new 300.
http://www.epinions.com/review/2011_Dodge_Charger_epi/content_539334839940
In fact. The Genesis is gutless compared to the CURRENT 300/Charger SRT8.
http://www.epinions.com/review/2006_Chrysler_300/content_526500335236
Just putting more power in an engine does not a sports barge make.
The broken record still turns.
That’s nothin’. Remember these glorious days?
@bigtruckseries
Considering the significantly larger displacement of the Dodge/Chrsyler products, I certainly hope so.
While the Hyundai looks boring, at least it’s classy. The Dodge looks like it has Down’s Syndrome.
I would agree. Wouldn’t the new 300C be a better comparison vis a vis the Genesis sedan?
The 300C SRT-8 would be a better comparison, but wasn’t introduced in Chicago : )
I also doubt that the Genesis will have the overt sportiness of the SRT cars even with the optional sport suspension.
“classy” is a matter of opinion. Even with the money to spend, nothing about the Genesis excited me except the technology/cost ratio. Now that even the base Charger R/T and SRT8’s (and 300c’s) come with a plethora of tech, I see absolutely nothing I desire in the Genesis.
How many people on TTAC actually own a Genesis anyway? I have yet to meet anyone who owns one on C&D, TTAC or Autoblog. It’s one thing to play the car up – it’s another to sign a check for one.
These days, likely more Genesis owners than those of the Lexus GS, Infiniti M or Audi A6, since the Genesis sedan outsells them.
If I had the choice between these two vehicles, and these two vehicles only, I would have to pick the Hyundai. The only reason I say that is because I’m sick of seeing the Charger in any iteration. Call me shallow, but when everybody and their sister has a Charger they kind of lose their charm.
To say nothing of their respective spec sheets as I’m not really the guy to discuss that. I still don’t understand enough about any of it to make any credible arguments one way or the other.
With Gas looking at $4.00/gallon by the Summer, my guess would be NO one will want ANY rear drive V8 that gets a real world 15 mpg. Not in this price range. Only the super-rich will be driving gas hogs like these.
You don’t have to be super-rich to afford to drive it, just determine what is a more important use of your money. I’d rather spend the extra $15/tank then pay an extra $40/month to carry a smartphone when I can access email on a regular phone or have my laptop handy.
Of course, I don’t want to pay the monthly note on a new RWD V8 car.
Huh?…er…wait a minute…who built a four-door 1999-era edge-style Mustang? Who changed the badges and grille on the Altima? I must be missing something here! Help! I wonder if these will be at the Cincinnati auto show next week? No, carve, the Dodge doesn’t have Down’s Syndrome, only Bell’s Palsy – it will eventually clear up, but may recur in the future. Sad. (EDIT): “Panther love” – I’m feelin’ it!
Huh?…er…wait a minute…who built a four-door 1999-era edge-style Mustang? Who changed the badges and grille on the Altima?
Heh, ain’t that the truth.
The Dodge.
When the Genesis first came out Hyundai offered me $20 to test drive one so I did. It’s a good wafting car but not very fun or engaging to drive or look at. I got my $20 and three weeks of sales calls from Hyundai to buy one afterwards.
Still at it, huh?
I am guessing the Dodge, but in V6 form. Hyundai hasn’t sold that many Genesis. I don’t think that it will be improving that much. The Charger has an established base already. I don’t think that these are cross shopped that much though. I agree with psar, 300C would be a better comparison.
I like them both and its a some what challenging (no pun) choice. Which is great, it great that these cars are on sale. I’ll pick the Hyundai cause I really like Luxury and it may be somewhat engaging. The Charger is a good car, although I’m not sure if I’d hustle it often. I’d like to test drive both.
The Hyundai makes an interesting, if boring, luxury halo car. The Chrysler, while it’ll certainly be fast in a straight line, probably won’t have cornering cred or be terribly luxurious.
While I wouldn’t buy either one, I’d definitely pick the Hyundai over the Chrysler. At least it knows what it’s doing.
Cornering cred?
Did you read about the new SRT-8?
You have yet to test drive an Equus then. THAT car is the boring, luxury halo car that Hyundai has. $65k? REALLY? And forget getting your car jumped if you have crap, er, luggage/golf equipment in the boot, the battery sits right next to the spare…
And besides, $65K? Really? I’ll take a BMW or Lexus for that much money instead…
America will of course pick the Charger.
Given what the old ones looked like, and how bad the current compares, I wouldn’t pick it.
If Hyundai can just put a little more refinement in, they would have a barge [at least visually] competitive with the usual German flotilla.
I’d pick the Hyundai. More reliable. Better warranty.
Now if we could just get Acura off of the Planet Krypton, into RWD and back making the Japanese-equivalent BMW/Audi where Infiniti kinda ate their lunch…
Mr. Schreyer… Paging Mr. Schreyer…
Hyundai more reliable than Honda. Never thought I’d see the day… I hope that in time Mr. Karesh’s data will prove that to be the case. Really like the direction Hyundai is going in, almost becoming what Honda was in the ’90s. Leave today’s Hondacuras and Toyotas for the sheeple.
The Charger? No thanks. New interior and all, just the shape of the body recalls too many bad memories of rental chargers and 300s with the underpowered V6, without ABS, and with an interior so plastic-y that it should’ve had “brought to you by Exxon” stamped on it.
The comparison of these to the Panthers is not quite apples to apples, though. Unibody vs. BOF is a significant difference for most Pantherphiles.
Funny you put it that way. Based on the exterior, I would choose the Charger, also, I’d give the HEMI the nod, despite its lower specific output. Interior, the Genesis sedan FTW. Way nicer than the Dodge.
While it does make sense to modify current behavior based upon past experience, the downside is that you can miss some great opportunities. Yes, the 2.7 rental Charger was a loser especially in a typical rental car color like the one I rented a few years back. But the Red R/T Charger I test-drove almost stole my heart when, from a dead stop, simply by stepping on the right pedal, spun the rear wheels with gusto and did it for under $30K.
While I haven’t seen the new one in person, I’m partial to the styling cues that evoke the ’69 Charger I owned as my first car. To this day, it remains the most beautifully-styled thing ever to come out of Chrysler.
The Genesis? Few cars have been so underwhelming. It’s like an even more boring Lexus LS. Feh…
The Dodge automatically plays <a href=”http://www.kidrock.com”>Kid Rock</a> when you open the driver’s door. The headlights become strobe lights and the car starts bouncing all excited. It sounds loud and drunk like a 19 year old frat boy at 2 AM, “I wanna #@&$!, see my tats?” So, owning this car is like being married to Snookie on Jersey Shore.
The Hyundai automatically plays <a hre=”http://toho-jp.net/index.html”>Dong Bang Shin Ki</a> when you open the driver’s door. A female voice says to you, “What do you think of when I say kimchee?”. Unlike the Dodge, the Hyundai is soft and hypnotic and holds you like a Tenga. “What do you think of when I do this to your lower lumbar?” “Do you like happy endings?” So owning this car is like being married to a young very hot Asian lady whose name you cannot pronounce that you order via Craigslist.
It is all about sex. The Dodge is for guys who remember liking it and thought they were good at it, and the Hyundai is for guys who remember liking it and knew they were lucky just to get some when they did.
Take your pick.
Oh – one more thing –
The Dodge is for guys who think their mom looked hot when she was in high school.
The Hyundai is for guys who are still afraid of their mom.
Vaguely thinking something’s wrong there…
OK, that’s the strangest comment I’ve ever seen on TTAC. Doesn’t shed a lot of light on the cars but fascinating in its way.
The Charger and the Genesis are simply different cars appealing to different markets. I think it’s great that I can choose either one with either a powerful V8 or a reasonably competent V6. Fuel economy is not bad considering their size and weight. However, I wish someone would section out a couple inches of height below their beltline and put them on a diet. I’d buy a V6 Genesis if I had a sales job where I needed to haul clients around town.
The answer is obvious.
Whichever one I can re-sell for more money on Ebay.
Thus spake the car dealer.
The Dodge will make a great cop car.
The Hyundai would be great as an undercover car. (Dude, I got busted by a cop driving a Hyundai!)
Which says all about cops
Does anyone else see a little R34 Skyline GT-R in the Dodge?
Personally, I’m leaning towards the Hyundai 5.0 R-spec. I’d be hard pressed to choose between it and an M56S.
A copy of the ugly, post ’99 S-class or a beefed-up Mitsubishi Evo? They are both so hideous I can’t pick one. How about I take the Hyundai and graft the body of a 63 Continental onto it. I could then have a car that drove well and looked badass.
I pick the Charger. With the Hyundai, you have to explain what it is to everyone who sees it. “Yes, it’s a Hyundai, but it is really powerful with this big V8”. That would get old. With the Charger, everyone understands the moment they see it.
Every recent road test I have seen on a Hyundai seems to conclude that the car promises a bit more than it delivers. The details do not seem that well sorted out, and there is always room for significant improvement. The Charger is past that. The platform is an excellent one, as is the engine. Both seem enough to compensate for the 5 speed autobox. Recent road tests of the hot Mopars is one long rave about the drivetrain and suspension (5 speed auto notwithstanding), but gripes about the cheap interiors. This has now been fixed.
So I say Grab Life by the Horns. Oh wait – no horns anymore. I’ll take it anyway.
jpcavanaugh hit the nail on the head. I doubt anyone knows Hyundai makes a V8 powered car. Heck very few know they make a great V6 in the Genesis Coupe which competes against cars from the Mustang to the G37. Hyundai is mostly likely the better choice here if you want a smooth, powerful car, but your kidding yourself if you think this will outsell the brash, in your face, bad azz Dodge. They are on two different levels.
Given the choice between these two versions I’d go for the Hyundai.
Like many commenters above though, instead of choosing between these two I’d take my money elsewhere.
I don’t want the Hyundai because there are some things it doesn’t do as well as you’d want it to, which at this pricepoint would lead me to walk into a BMW dealership and accept a lowly (but still great IMO) six cilinder.
I don’t want this particular Charger because again, at this pricepoint, it still has a tacky looking interior and an extremely tacky looking rear spoiler (seriously, what were they thinking). If the budget would be smaller though, I might take a look at one of the base model Chargers (without that hideous spoiler). I think the base models have a better balance between price and product.
Well……Given a choice, and since TTAC asked. The Dodge hands down. I don’t care if they are assembled in the United States. In my world Hyundai equals import. Thirty six years UAW/CAW, and I don’t drive imports.
In your case (and mine) the Brampton assembled Charger would be the local choice. I’d skip the Dodge (too gauche) in favour of the 300. I’d dump either in a hot minute, though, if they still made the Magnum.
I spend a fair amount of time at our DR facility which is across the street from the plant that builds these and I am a buy-local subscriber. The Genesis is very nice, but it’s not assembled in North America like the lesser Hyundais.
I’ll reserve judgement until I see the new Chrysler. Hopefully they’ll have a good sampling at the Toronto show this year.
P.s. Good to see you posting again, mikey
Thanks psar….TTAC is like a pair of old comfy shoes. I might park e’m in the closet for a while,but I could never throw them out.
I’ll agree that a transplant is still an import, since the profits go elsewhere, which is why Ford and GM build plants overseas. But I still buy them. Although I don’t have any UAW/CAW heritage, my father was a USW member who ended up buying ‘foreign’ after he was soured by the local union’s way of doing business.
As for these two cars, America will go for the Charger. Hyundai must stop boring us with that silver color.
Between the two…I’ll take the Dodge. The Hyundai is a great vehicle and all, but I’m just not paying that kind of money for a Korean car. It has no history, no brand cache. Not that the Dodge is a better vehicle or more prestigious, but at least “Dodge” and “Charger” have some sort of resonance.
Yeah, that’s a pretty petty way to compare cars, but these cars compete in a very petty segment. If this was something more practical like “Sonata vs. Fusion,” I’d take the Sonata, hands down.
Hyundai — came a long way. Chrysler — just go away.
If the comparison is the Charger SRT-8 and the Genesis then I would immediately pick the Dodge and never look back.
If the comparison is the Charger R/T and the Genesis my head says Hyundai while my heart says Dodge. The Genesis has more power than the R/T, but it has the looks and soul of an appliance. Allegedly, it is an outstanding vehicle from what one owner has told me.
For me, the R/T has it in the looks and heritage department, and I would bet that the R/T’s exhaust note is far superior to the Genesis. The power deficit can be reduced with modest modification.
Reliability is a consideration, and Hyundai has an excellent reputation. However, I have driven a Dodge Magnum R/T for the past 2 years and 3 months, and it has required no maintenance beyond gas, oil, and the standard 50k service in the shop manual’s maintenance schedule. Based on that I don’t have huge qualms about current Dodge reliability.
The Charger, even though I’m not crazy about the restyle they did.
I had an ’08 Charger R/T for almost three years. It’s sole issue, other than a couple things caused by hitting a huge frozen dead possum, and a huge crater in the road, was warped brake rotors. Other than that, perfect. I traded it on a 2010 Challenger R/T, because I wanted one, and because I got like 5K off on it.. I know a lot of people with 2005 and ups Magnums, Chargers, 300’s, and Challengers, and none of them have had any significant issues. Several of the older cars have over 100,000 miles on them. I’ve had 3 Chrysler vehicles (Ram, Charger, Challenger, all hemis) in a row, and was very happy with them all.
I read TTAC because it’s the comments that crack me up. Where else do folks pine for friggin’ Crown vics and magnum wagons? lol
Back on topic, it’s a shame what they’ve done to the Charger, that door crease on the SRT is terrible and the whole design theme is channeling a Mistubishi EVO (much more so than a Skyline IMO)
The Hyundai is blandly copying a BMW and an Infiniti but that company has their shit together and right now they’re where Honda was in the late 70’s/early 80’s.
Hyundai in a heartbeat. Yeah, it looks generic. Yeah, it has no prestige and provides no “compensation value.” And yeah, the Charger is a reincarnation of the original ’60s hemi-powered muscle car that provides a nice nostalgia trip for those who drooled over the original.
But I’ll take reliability and durability over flash and dash any day of the week. Hyundai has a well-earned (albeit, recent) reputation for building quality vehicles on par with the world’s best. Chrysler on the other hand continues to rank at the bottom of Consumer Reports’ reliability and durability findings. Chrysler is capable of doing much better than that. “Buy American”? Hey Chrysler: BUILD American!
How did Hyundai get this Toyota like reputation for long term reliability? I would like to see some data that suggests the Charger being the inferior car in this regard.
Hyundai’s lineup is impressive but I am still on the fence about it’s long term durability. I see 15 year old Civics and Corollas all day long and can go a week without seeing a 10 year old Hyundai.
Back to the topic, I’d take the Charger because I don’t want to explain what it is. That and I can see Brampton Assembly plant from my bedroom window, must live close to Psar.
I have a 10-yr-old Hyundai, must not live near you. :)
There are 10 year old Hyundais on the road, just not nearly as many.
Makes sense considering that 10 yrs ago, Hyundai only sold a fraction of what Toyota or Honda sold (and even today, still has a way to go in terms of catching up in sales).
re: Hyundai 5.0
The first thing I thought when I read about this car in the morning was… “how the f&ck did Ford get 390 torques out of their 5.0 without DI” ….. I agree that 85.8 hp/litre is impressive…. but somehow Ford is getting almost the same HP and more torque without resorting to DI and whatever future complications that may bring…
Back to the question……
I would pick the Genesis only because I hate seeing all the lower grade Charger iterations everywhere I go…. For sure I think the 6.4 would be the motor to have (if you look at the stats, i dont think it is too far off the output of the pre-variable cam timing 8.4 V10)….. I also think the 6.4 is under-rated in output.. I think it will dyno close to the rated crank specs….
The split picture at the top of the post shows a R/T Charger, but the text references the SRT-8 Charger. The pictures in the slideshow are of the SRT-8. I’d go for the Charger R/T. In black. The SRT is a bit much for my tastes. Besides, the R/T is closest replacement for the G8 GXP, at least visually.
Would take the Hyundai in a second. The Dodge will fall apart before 30,000 miles and I appreciate the more subtle styling on the Hyundai.
My friends that drive Chargers, 300’s and a Magnum with over 100.000 miles on them would disagree with you. My Charger was in great shape, not a thing wrong with it, except it needed tires when I traded it at 38K. Hitting a huge pothole will do bad things for alignment.
Caprice.
Or Zeta Park Avenue.
Easy America picks the R/T with AWD. I live in CamCord country and I have never seen a Genesis sedan out in the wild, but a Charger? I see atleast 5 a day.
I have yet to see a Genesis sedan in Boston, which is amazing to me.
How did Hyundai get this Toyota like reputation for long term reliability? I would like to see some data that suggests the Charger being the inferior car in this regard.
Hyundai’s lineup is impressive but I am still on the fence about it’s long term durability. I see 15 year old Civics and Corollas all day long and can go a week without seeing a 10 year old Hyundai.
For data your unbiased choices are Consumer Reports, True Delta and Lemon Aid. Hyundais built after 2005 have been putting up some pretty impressive reliability and durability numbers, with a few of the more often-driven examples approaching 200,000 miles and still going strong.
Prior to that Hyundai had one of the worst reps for reliability and was the butt of late-night TV jokes. If Hyundai can turn things around that fast what’s Chrysler’s excuse? They can certainly build high performance and style, no question. But when Consumer Reports’ pages on their products have enough black dots on them to resemble close-range shot-gun blasts it doesn’t do much to inspire confidence in their products.
CR is not an “unbiased” source. It is very biased because of the nature of how it collects its data. Only subscribers can contribute data about their cars. The magazine says Toyondas are great, these makes are bad, and then ask the consumers of this information to rate their vehicles. This is a biased sample and self perpetuating. No polling organization would conduct a poll this way (unless they wanted to produce results leaning a certain way). Then as Karesh points out CR does not tell you what constitutes worse than avg, better than avg, etc. True Delta doesn’t care who the manufacturer is. Did the car have problem? Did it have to go the dealer? How long? Just the facts, mam.
CR’s reliability survey may be “biased” in certain respects, but such biases don’t explain the rapid rise that Hyundai and Ford have seen in the reliability ratings.
It’s not like the owners of Fords and Hyundais today have a different outlook on reliability than the owners of Fords and Hyundai 10-15 yrs ago.
Wait a minute, time iut, flag on the play…
Ford told us that the V8 was a gas hog and that it needed to be replaced with a ECO V6 installed into a FWD bland/mediocre appliance.
And what do we have here? A TRUE luxury car that has a 429HP 5.0L V8 that gets 26MPG on the highway???
Lincoln, are you taking notes? Because Hyundai is showing you how to build a proper Luxury car…not just a half-assed, rebadged POS Ford…
“Lincoln, are you taking notes? Because Hyundai is showing you how to build a proper Luxury car” Tsk, tsk, tsk. Not feelin’ the Panther love today, eh? You’ll be forced to eat those words! I did. You have been warned!
The Chargers to me all look like they need some kind of different front grille treatment, it just makes me think “that car would look so much better without that truck front end on it.” But I’d pick a Charger over the Genesis though. Something about driving a really expensive Hyundai just seems off.
I’d take the Dodge. When buying an extroverted V-8 sedan, it should look…extroverted. The Hyundai looks like a super-sized version of the last-generation Sonata. In this league, you want looks and/or prestige. The Dodge has the looks part down pat. Hyundai has neither.
Hyundai is aping the European luxury brands, whose idea of a big car is taking a small car and stretching it.
I’d choose the Hyundai. The SRT styling is over the top, the interior will be a rattle trap within 30K miles, and you’ll see one pulling out of every trailer court within 5 years. This is the equivalent of a late 80’s IROC-Z.
As far as “I wouldn’t spend that much money on a Hyundai”.
20 years ago people were saying “No way am I paying $35K for a Toyota (lexus)”. Today that same car is $70-100K, the quietest vehicle made, the best made vehicle year in and out, and it took the brand about 4 years to completely knock BMW, MB, and Cadillac right on it’s ass.
In the last 10 years Lexus has went down hill in new innovation but they set a standard that other luxury auto makers are still trying to duplicate.
Hyundai Genesis is a little different. Like the original Lexus LS400 they have copied the design of other but Lexus brought something completely new to the table. The beat the Germans in every single category and still charged a lot less.
The Genesis Sedan is in a weird category. A mild optioned BMW 328 costs as much as the V8 Genesis. Do you compare it to a GS, LS, 5 series, TL, G37, M37, etc.??? With every single option and a V8 it will cost you about $42K which is cheaper than everything listed except the TL and G37. It’s RWD. Most of the ones listed above(not the LS) are sportier and some have nicer interior but for a total bang for the buck the Genesis is killing them.
I’ve had a ton of cars over the years. This has included normal sedans, sports cars, muscle cars, etc. I’m at the point in my life right now (40) where I want a luxury vehicle. I want a smooth nice ride, nice interior with all the bells/whistles, good power, rear seat room, etc for under 40K.
LS460-I’ve always wanted one of these but to get under $40k we’re probably talking 50K miles.
GS used-Just don’t do it for me. The interior is surprisingly small and my head nearly hits the roof.
TL-Could probably get a new one or close to a new one. Not in love with the styling. Everything else seems fine.
G37-Probably a little to sporty for me. I’ve owned a 350Z so I know the motor is decent. Probably also a little cramped in the back seat.
5 series-Never have owned a BMW. Like the 535 but have heard so many horror stories about this motor and I’d have to buy used. I’m also sick of BMW in general. I feel like I’m paying an extra $10K just for a name.
3 series-Too small otherwise I’d love to buy a used 335D. Can’t see paying $50K new for a 3 series. I like the interior and exterior styling. 335xi=same engine issues as the 535. Once again, paying for that name.
Genesis-Like the styling, reliable, smooth ride, average interior for this segment. AWD is not an option, which is bad. Resale may be questionable.
Lots of choices.
The Hyundai, when it comes off lease in 2014. Cheap, fast, reliable, invisible. Slap on an aftermarket grille, pull the emblems and no one will know what it is.