David writes:
Hi Sajeev and Steve,
I think this question is right up Sajeev’s alley: my wife and I want to buy a new car (no more used-vehicle shenanigans for us). We like RWD cars; the bigger, the better. Panthers are a bit primitive (and extinct anyway), and the usual German suspects are much too expensive: we’d be happy to spend $30k, and could stretch to about $34k. We’d be much happier with our choices if this was 1969 instead of 2011.
Our short list is short: 2011 Dodge Charger and Hyundai Genesis. If the Charger could promise reasonable reliability, we’d pull the trigger—assuming the test drive is pleasant. But we’re worried that the Cerberus cars are totally untested. There could be a Ford-style reformation, or this might another gilded turd. We think we can afford a Hemi, so at least the powertrain is proven—and awesome. But with the Pentastar, we feel like we’d be signing up for a blind date—for the next 5-7 years. Also, it has a folding rear seat, which is important given that our only other car is a coddled Mercedes W126.
The Hyundai has… a warranty. And maybe reliability? Not much soul. We haven’t driven one, but will soon.
So: Can you help us decide between these two choices? And are we forgetting some other options?
Steve Answers:
The buyers of most of the late model Chargers are usually the ones that end up financing a car to the hilt and in many cases. This car has always struck me as an incredibly cheap and claustrophobic. Although Chrysler has improved this model tremendously with the recent re-design, to me the exterior still screams ‘Boy Racer’.
Sajeev Answers:
Panther Love lives on in the Chrysler LX platform. Love is a fickle thing, witnessed by the Panther’s phenolic timing gears in the early 1980s, cracked intakes in the mid 1990s, and beancounted everything in the 2000s. The same is true with the Dodge Charger, and I suspect those teething issues are gone by now. Mostly because it will be the go-to fleet vehicle for displaced Panther lovers. The “totally untested” comment is not relevant here.
The Genesis is a polished car, but the Charger’s new sheetmetal and interior narrows the gap significantly. I’ve driven the Genesis V6 (okay) and V8 (sweet!) and since the V8 is more cash than you intend to spend, I think the idea of going Chrysler is your only option. And it’s a darn good one, even if the whole Chrysler-FIAT-not-making-money thing comes to a gruesome end. Odds are the 2011 Charger is a good car, and the aftermarket will stock parts for it for years to come. So don’t sweat the warranty difference between the two, drown out those worries with a good local wrench and a Magnaflow cat-back for that HEMI.
The Charger looks…boring. I’d rather be interested in the Challenger.
“The Charger looks…” played out.
Everybody and their sister has one, at least in my part of the country. Initially, when they came out, I kind of liked the looks of the Charger (kinda beefed up, but not over the top), but now it’s either the wannabe gangster mobile or car of choice for those wanting to be different, but the difference ends when everybody has one.
I like the idea of the Challenger, but for feeding it.
In my neck of the woods, the Charger looks like… Unmarked law enforcement.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Folks usually GTFO of your way.
If this was 1969 give me a gently used Corvair dumped on the used car lot by some wimp who believes that the car is going to kill them cause he’s heard the hype surrounding Nader’s book. Make mine a hardtop coupe with the four speed manual trans. (BTW my aunt did wreck a Corvair during her youth but her view was obstructed by the cloud of marijuana smoke in the car at the time (yeah she was the only person in the car) so I don’t think we can blame the Corvair’s suspension for that one.)
Back to the OP’s question. Get the V6 Charger (have ya seen the price of gas lately?) and make sure there’s a nearby Chrysler dealer that actually has a decent reputation so if stuff goes wrong you’ll actually get good service.
+1 On “If this were 1969” Make mine a 1967 tho, from all I’ve heard of the last 2 years of Corvair production is that they were slapped together with the least amount of care, with cheaper interior fabrics. I’d want a Monza 4 door Hardtop, Crocus Yellow, 140 Turbo Air, 4 Speed and the Wire Wheel covers.
Laurence,
I’d also want a 4 speed Monza 4 door hardtop (1965, 66 or 67), and I don’t think they made 4 door Monzas after 1967 anyway!
I’m confused… David wants a “big” car and your recommending the Genesis COUPE? Did you look at the Infiniti G37 yet? It might be pushing the limits of your budget and a bit tight in the back seats, but it has a sweet V6 and a sleek package, plus luxury interior. The problem: I don’t think either of these cars offers fold down rear seats. I know the coupe versions (two doors) don’t have this feature.
Hahahahahah…
I’m laughing so hard that I can’t catch my breath.
The list of section titled supercars contains a few not so quite “supercars”, to wit – high 14’s/low 15’s for 1/4 miles?
It’s difficult to remember why we believed some of these cars were so great.
Wow, the Chevy El Camino has the 2nd highest top speed of the super cars. Although you could still go pretty fast in a Buick Wildcat!
Monty: “It’s difficult to remember why we believed some of these cars were so great.” It’s very simple: Pillarless hardtop styling and there was nothing else, save VW and other European cars and the initial wave of Japanese imports on the coasts.
Monty: “It’s difficult to remember why we believed some of these cars were so great.” It’s very simple: Pillarless hardtop styling and there was nothing else, save VW and other European cars and the initial wave of Japanese imports on the coasts.
IIRC, 1968-introduced emissions regulations meant that all cars shipped and were tested in a crummy state of tune, although one that was ‘clean.’ A little work with a timing light and a screwdriver shaved seconds at the strip.
We called them “super” because compared to what came before, they were. Six cylinder, power glides probably could not break 20 seconds. My modified 1956 Olds would run in the low 13s, but was far from stock. My 1965 L 76 Corvette ran 14 flat. My 1972 big block 442 never broke 15 seconds, but we sure thought we were hot. Of course some of the stock GTOs easily ran in the 12s.
It’s all relative for that era of technology. The stock bias plies were part of the problem. In 40+ years from now, a new generation will laugh smugly at what we so proudly call high performance today. It’s all relative.
So I don’t know if this is vorboten here and if it is, I apologize for the bad form.
I know a guy who is selling a blue 2009.5 Pontiac G8 GXP with 800 miles on the clock for $37,000.
For $37K you’re going to be very hard pressed to find a better rear wheel drive performance oriented car. Top Gear’s review of the Vauxhall version resulted in 100% adoration.
This is as close to a new GXP that isn’t insanely priced as you’ll find on the planet.
Because one of the things you mention is soul. Many magazines considered the Pontiac G8 GXP the greatest Pontiac ever built, and yes, that is even putting them up against the rope drive Pontiacs of the old days and the beloved GTO. If there is one thing the GXP has is souls. Buckets of soul. Endless buckets of soul.
Wow, now thats exactly what I was thinking as I read this letter… “If only he could find a still brand new G8 GT somewhere in the world”. Hell, your answer is even better, the GXP is amazing, if it happens to be red, even more so. OK, black looked awesome too, just God I HATE keeping a black car clean! (yes I own a black car now).
I only wish I ad the $37k to buy it out from under them!
The LXs have been more solid than the typical Chrysler. Based on responses to TrueDelta’s Car Reliability Survey, I wouldn’t expect much trouble with either the Charger or the Genesis sedan (without the somewhat glitchy Tech Package). They’re both been consistently average or better. The Genesis Coupe is another story.
Charger:
http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability.php?stage=pt&bd=Dodge&mc=76
Genesis:
http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability.php?stage=pt&bd=Hyundai&mc=777
My Parents and some very good friends of the family both have 300 Limiteds (one is a 2006, the other is an ’07) with the 3.5L/5-speed Mercedes designed automatic. Both cars have been utterly reliable and deliver excellent mileage considering the curb weight of the car. My Parents regularly exceed the EPA ratings, both the new and the old formula by the way.
These are solid, well designed cars that only got better with the 2011 refresh and new interiors that are finally class competitve if not class leading. While many feel the Charger is “boy-racer” just sit in the new one and you’ll see that it has a certain sophistication now that it lacked before.
Personally, I’d go with the 3.6L V6 – it provides more than enough power and returns reasonable economy. And don’t get caught up in all the “gear envy” – the 5 speed auto is an excellent and highly efficient transmission that shifts nicely and doesn’t waste a bunch of energy in the process of putting power to the ground.
If you’re interested in the Genesis Sedan, go slow or fast depending on what you think of the current car after your test drive. It may pay to wait as a revised version should be at dealers sometime in May. Biggest news on the V6 car is a new 8-speed transmission.
It is not worth it, a brand new car! You can get a 2-3 year old car that is as new, really, for an affordabe price. LS430, CTS, STS, BMW 5 or 7, MB S klasse…. Chrysler 300 C is good, for a Chrysler. All these are big and RWD and more modern than a Grand Marq. If you like big cars remember that a used gas guzzler is more economical than a new car that gives you 40MPG and a huge depreciation.
Indeed, the day I suddenly find myself needing 4 doors and RWD, I’ll pick up a cream-puff first-gen LS400.
Here’s the a link to the changes on the new 2012 Genesis.
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicles/future-cars.aspx
’09-’10 CPO STS
Lightly used G8
Amen! But make sure to go big and get the STS V8 luxury performance variant with the magnetic ride shocks. It’s quiet, comfortable and takes very well to spirited backroad driving, much more involving that the V6 version. Mine has been a great car. I had one problem which was a broken motor mount fixed under the CPO warranty. In two years I’ve put 34K miles on it and it cost me less to buy than a middling Camry.
Infiniti G25
Lexus LS is the best large sedan ever built. Yes, even better than a Roll Royce from an engineering perspective.
If it’s beyond your reach, try an Avalon. Yeah, it’s FWD, but its target demography can hardly tell just by driving it.
The OP said soul and no more than $34K, he didn’t want a Krups Toaster and a Lexus, sans the LF-A and the IS-F has anything but soul; especially the LS series.
Recently picked up a 2011 Charger R/T awd and couldn’t be happier. Ride and interior are much improved…high quality. Black with no spoiler and non chrome rims, it looks in my opinion, awesome. With “plus” package (nav, backup camera, etc) was not much over $32k out the door.
That may be my next car. I test drove an R/T two years ago and if it weren’t for the interior, I would have bought it.
You really wouldn’t consider a used G8 GT or a CTS?
What about a CPO’d M35/37 if you’re worried about reliability? Those things have tremendous cliff depreciation, and you’d do well. Buying a new car doesn’t make any sense unless you just have to have a new car. Then, it makes all the sense in the world…. except when it doesn’t.
Maybe he places a higher value on knowing exactly what has been done to a car and where it has gone and what kind of care has been taken to ensure its proper operation. You can get a CPO, but there may still be hidden gremlins that might not pop up. This seems like a value judgment and bottom-line cost to purchase is just one of many factors.
Perhaps this would be his first new car, I can’t assume anything, and he may just want to buy one to say he’s done it.
True, buying an honest to god new car seems to be one of those things we have do at least once in our lives to say we have. (For my grandfather that event happened two years before his death.)
I’m done with new cars. (Said like the alcoholic who swears off drinking forever, again) With so many CPO deals available from just about every manufacturer, it’s becoming much more attractive than it had been in the past.
I would agree with tankinbeans, it’s very nice to know the history of the car from day one. It’s not nice to have to pay for it however… ugh.
“I would agree with tankinbeans, it’s very nice to know the history of the car from day one. It’s not nice to have to pay for it however… ugh.”
Well, you don’t know the history from the assebly line. A CPO car with a proven record is actually better than new, because it has been verified!
Before you buy a Chrysler, please at least drive a cpo Mercedes, or BMW. Try the 550i.
Forget all the advice above. Get a V6 Camry, SE version. This gives you a vehicle that will outrun nearly every super car on the above list, plus outrun and outhandle nearly every midsized sedan with a V6 from any automaker.
So would a Chrysler 200.
Again, requirement was RWD and soul. The Camry, even in SE trim is a soulless automobile as bland as neon beige.
I’ve read 0-60 times on the Camry SE of 5.9 to 6.2 seconds in the press (take your choice on your source). This is darn impressive for a 6-banger naturally aspirated FWD car.
Charger R/T I’ve seen 5.5 to 5.8 – the SRT/8 is even faster and its RWD; and it has soul – and as posted above a good service record.
G8 GT I’ve seen 5.4 to 5.8, the GXP from 4.7 to 4.9. Considered in GXP trim the best Pontiac ever built in history, tons of soul, and a quick search will find even Consumer Reports saying GM needs to bring the big 4-door Zeta sedan back to North America.
The 6-cylinder Genesis I’m reading 5.9 seconds, the V8 is even faster.
G37 reading 5.5 and the G37 S reading 5.0
All of these cars are equal to or faster than the Camry – not sure where you’re getting your information.
By the numbers the Camry does have excellent handling but the numb steering, significant body roll, and soft pedal feel in the brakes does nothing to instill confidence in the average driver. If you’re driving a car at 7/10s and you feel like you’re going to die at any moment, then the extra 3/10s you’ll never tap is meaningless. Finally, the Camry is getting old in design, with a total redesign coming eventually (only say eventually because I think the tsunami impact on supply, planning, logisitcs and projects isn’t fully understood yet)
jj99,
Agreed. The recently facelifted Camry is an amazing value with formidable performance. The people who bash them need to just let it go and accept that there are cars that don’t break or depreciate at a rate that exceeds their payment schedule. There may be some scenario where buying a G8 won’t ruin someone’s life, but it would be a poor choice as transportation. Pontiac service was bad enough when the dealers existed. Does anyone think a Chevy or Buick dealer is going to treat a Pontiac orphan well when they shaft their own customers? If it is someone’s idea of a good toy, then they should buy it themselves instead of recommending them to someone who needs to get to work.
Yes CJinSD like the Buick/GMC dealer (used to be Pontiac) in my little city who has consistently out sold the Chevy/Cadillac dealer (used to be Oldsmobile) obviously must be a crook. (rolls eyes) I am deeply sorry you’ve run into bad dealers but I’m pretty sure bad dealers exist in every brand of auto sold on this planet.
Dan,
The Acura dealer that services our 2004 TSX in Richmond Virginia doesn’t strike me as being a good dealer. Does it matter? Not really. In 7 years, one power lock servo has acted up and then fixed itself. The Honda place I take my 2007 Civic Si in San Diego may or may not be on the up and up. I don’t know, because in 4 years this car has never needed a service that couldn’t be performed by their drive through express shop for pocket change. My landlady had a Buick when I moved in. She spent over a thousand dollars at the dealer each time it needed to be smogged. The last time, they told her the next thing they would TRY would be putting in a new dashboard and that MIGHT make the CEL go out so the car could pass smog. Instead she traded it in on a 2008 Kia, sadly that I recommended. I drove it to the Kia dealer for her, and the heater core blew on the way, this on a car with about 38K miles, all garaged in San Diego, which has weather better than east coast living rooms. The Kia dealer also is a crook, and it matters because the car is a POS. Buy a Toyota or a Honda, and the dealer could consist of the sort of people who populate Obama’s cabinet. It just doesn’t matter.
<<By the numbers the Camry does have excellent handling but the numb steering, significant body roll, and soft pedal feel in the brakes does nothing to instill confidence in the average driver. If you’re driving a car at 7/10s and you feel like you’re going to die at any moment, then the extra 3/10s you’ll never tap is meaningless.>>
Ain’t that the truth. Numbers alone don’t tell the whole story, or even half of it. Consider the first gen Miata. None of the numbers would seem to stir the soul, but the sum of the whole resulted in an amazing drive. A Camry really is a good choice if you value reliability over everything else. It really is a Maytag on wheels, and considering the Maytag dryer in my basement with the 1971 build date, that is a compliment. But when it comes to cars, soul and engagement makes up for some shortcomings – perceived or otherwise. Just look at the fanbois at BimmerFest. I’ve was never able to understand all the excuse-making of the posters, explaining away factory defects like it was something to be expected, until I spent some real seat time in a friend’s 330. The tactile feedback and the communication the car provides is almost magical. It really makes you realize that the CR red dot sluts are idiots. A Camry could never, ever provide that feeling. I’d put up with a few repairs as a fair compromise. Maybe (just maybe) the Charger might be that compromise – reliability won’t be as good as a Camry, but the drive will be far better. Not a BMW to be sure, but likely to be more reliable.
@CJinSD hyperbole much?
The difference between the car with the absolute worst quality built in 2009 and the one with the absolute best quality built in 2009 is very, VERY narrow. The suggestion that buying a 2009 Pontiac will leave you dead on the side of the road unable to get to work and feed and cloth Martha and the two brain damaged twins, think of the TWINS is beyond silly.
I bought a G8 post-bankruptcy, GM dealers are fighting for my business based on the coupons and mailers I get for servicing my car. GM gave me four free service calls for my trouble – I hardly feel screwed.
Of course between the Oil Life Monitoring system and overall reliability of ALL cars built in 2009 in general, I haven’t had to find out what a trip to the dealer would require in the first place. You also ignore, quite silly on your part, that a vast majority of Pontiac dealers were Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealers. The dealer where I bought my car – very much in business, very much part of GM and would gladly sell me a new GMC or Buick. Since they want – wait for it – my BUSINESS down the road, I’m pretty sure I’ll get fine service.
As far as parts, I didn’t know that LS2 parts, Corvette transmissions and other major systems straight from the regular GM part bin had suddenly become so hard to acquire. Oh the horrors, where oh where will I ever find spark plugs for the L76 LS2 variant 6.0 V8!!! Who on earth is making Cadillac CTS brake pads for me to use?!?
Those prices on the 1969 chart seem way out of line. Chevy II for $3642???! ($21k today). My parents bought the 1970 Valiant new fall of 1970 for $2650 ($14.5k in today’s). Granted, the Chevy II was a 427 and the Valiant was a stripper, but still, the 6.5 k difference in cost seems nuts. As do a lot of the rest of those prices.
Margins used to be MUCH larger. Your parents likely got a sizable discount off MSRP.
Options played a big role too. I read a 1968 Car and Driver comparison test of a Mustang and a Camaro that each had all the Trans Am homologation options. From base prices around $2,500(IIRC), they were optioned up to about $5,440. That was Cadillac money at the time, but the really hot performance options were expensive.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/archive/1968_tunnel_port_ford_mustang_vs._chevrolet_camaro_z_28-archived_comparison
CJ — When you pointed that out, it made me think… thats really not too different from today where the $23k base Camaro now climbs to almost $50k when you want the “really hot” performance option ZL1. I think they can get pretty close to $40k with just a loaded SS… same with the base Mustang compared to the GT500, Challenger SRT8, etc!
That’s a really interesting article, if you have the time to read it. The homologation special pony cars were pretty much the world’s highest performance cars, murdering the Ferrari 275 GTB-4 in every stat except top speed, and that was only because they didn’t have 5-speed transmissions yet. ‘By far the best performing street cars ever,’ was how Car and Driver summed it up. They were expensive, but a $10,000 exotic wouldn’t even get you a look at one. With 4 wheel disc brakes and 7,000 rpm engines, they really weren’t lacking in spec for the day either.
I like the Charger, especially the R/T version with the Sport package. Everyone I know who has one loves them, no one has reported any big problems, or even small ones. My coworker is fanatical with research, and looked for months at cars before deciding on a Charger R/T. I think you are right on the money. The Gen sedan is extremely boring, and not even impressive to your neighbors. Whats the point??
The only big problem I see is thats such a terrible car to buy new, they depreciate like crazy. I have seen several Charger SRT8’s for sale with miles in the low 20k or less range for around $24-26k, the R/T is even less. I would hate to pay full price just because I wanted BRAND new. Maybe wait 3 months or so and find one of those buyers remorse tradeins with like 5k miles?
Buy a ’69 creampuff for peanuts and spend the balance of the $30,000 upgrading the mechanicals and interior to your preferences. Just don’t crash it into anything. I’d buy a 2-year-old 300 with a hemi and take it to a brake specialist, suspension tuner and auto upholsterer for upgrades.
No way. Do you know why 1969 vehicles had vinal seats and floor coverings? So they could rinse the blood out with a hose after you bounced off the metal dashboard in an accident. Would you put your family in that?
I loved my ’69 Charger. It was my first car. Red, chrome wheels, white vinyl interior, sport gauges, it looked sharp. But the electrical system caused me all kinds of problems. The hideaway headlight covers caused the headlight high beam wiring to chafe and that, in turn, killed the headlight switch (which had a vacuum circuit for the aforementioned covers as well as the electrical circuit). The headlights would just randomly go out. Fun. Then there was the &%*$&% ammeter which carried all the system’s current and gave me no end of trouble. Don’t aks me how many ballast resistors and voltage regulators I replaced.
Old cars are wonderful. If you want a hands-on education in how much better cars are today.
1969 GM products all had padded dashboards. Yes.
Sssssshhhhh…jj99 was arguing earlier that the Camry SE can outrun a Charger R/T, Infiniti G37, Hyundai Genesis…etc. etc.
He has some, errr, ideas that one does.
He said the Camry could outrun any supercars on the list. The list is from 1969, if you were into reading for comprehension.
@CJinSD
Actually, if you were into reading for comprehension he didn’t say “any” he said most – that statement is somewhat factual.
About 1/3 of the cars on the 1969 “supercars” list are faster in the published 1/4 mile times for a stock Camry SE – which again is about as fun to drive as a neon beige toaster.
Oh I get it – you love your Honda. You love it love it love it. Honda makes nothing today that I would consider buying sans the Fit and only if I needed a commuting appliance. Reliable? Ya, do a search on Gen 2 4-speeds attached to V6 engines. Real reliable those Hondas. Or how about recent Accord owners who were told too bad with rear brakes lasting 10,000 miles, if they were lucky? Oh that’s right, solved in a recall. Yup – reliable.
My neighbor has a Subaru Outback. Transmission is toast, died on Sunday, $2,400 to repair. He’s got 110K miles on the odometer. My last winter beater was a God awful Pontiac Trans Sport with 150K on the clock – I drove it a season, pounded 10K miles into it, did nothing for it sans oil changes and plugs, and sold it for $200 less than what I paid for it largely because I just didn’t want to deal with it. His Subaru is a shell – not only is the tranny bad, but in conversation he revealed has a very minor head gasket leak too that he hasn’t fixed because it’s a nightmare to do on the Subbie engine. His wife is out of town for the week, driving her car to work – doesn’t know what he’ll do next week. My hideous Pontiac got me to work no problem today.
You know Honda builds good cars when internet experts always have to trot out the one average drivetrain component fitted to their products in the past two decades. I’ve got a BMW that gets a new GM automatic transmission every 30K miles. First one replaced under warranty. 2nd one BMW split with us out of ‘good will.’ Transmission number 3 is now on 30K miles and the car is pretty much retired with 90K miles. Fluid changes are a work around, as BMW/GM say the transmission is ‘sealed for life.’ Sadly, they meant a fruitfly’s life. But tell me all about the Honda V6 automatics that only last as long as a GM car.
I do like my Honda. Mostly because it followed a couple BMWs, 2 Audis, a Jetta, a Mercedes, a Ford, a couple Mopars, a Fiat, and maybe even some cars more forgettable than those. I bought it after working as a service writer while I was selling off my real estate partnership, and seeing how everything was built Supposedly, GM has totally addressed the garbage they were building back in 2006 when I was seeing it, but I’ve been hearing that since the Citation was introduced. Not sure what anything has to do with your friend’s Subaru. There are only two car companies that routinely build good cars, and Subaru isn’t one of them. I love it that you bought a Pontiac Trans Sport but feel like you have any business telling other people what to buy.
HoldenSSVE:
The Subaru Outback head gasket repair is $1500 at an independent shop. I’ve owned an Outback. Not hard if the tech knows what he’s doing.
Unless the Subaru has 200k plus miles, the transmission failure sounds like owner abuse to me. I sold my Outback with 214k miles on the original transmission (and got 4 grand for an 11 year old car with that much mileage! Selling an Outback in December is the best). Shifted fine with no issues.
If you’re looking for a reliable car then you should absolutely not be wishing for the 1960’s. I love seeing these stats, since it sure does show how far we’ve come. About the only thing I dislike about modern cars is all the electronics getting in the way of driving and the lack of stick shift options (although the few sticks that are left are very much better than the ones from the 60’s).
I assume you are looking for a modern upgrade to your w126. I’d wait for tax refund season to be over and for summertime gas prices to hit all-time highs. Since you have an old car now, I’ll assume you don’t absolutely have your heart set on a “brand new” car. A 2-year-old CPO at $30k will give you a bunch of options on a terrific car. $30k (including tax) doesn’t buy a whole lot of brand new, large, RWD sedan.
I was there for the “Summer of ’69”
and it WAS a mighty fine time.
I bought a brand new 2006 Charger RT when they first came out. I’ve owned many different brands, foreign and domestic, and in this “workman’s” price range, it was the finest car I have had. The only reason I traded it is because Chrysler came out with the Challenger. I don’t feel that I have taken any steps down as a result of that trade.
My 2008 Charger R/T was a great car. I had no problems with it for the almost 3 years I had it, except for warped rotors at about 12K, and the seat trim tore after a friend’s wife drove it (I think that there is some kind of problem with the way the leather is attached) with the seat all the way forward. I traded it in for a 2010 Challenger R/T in Nov, and so far, it’s been perfect. I have a bunch of friends with Chargers, 300s, Magnums, and Challengers, almost all R/T’s or SRT’s, and we are all very happy with them, and the problems have been basically stereos, trans leaks (Early cars only), seat trim, and key fobs. Any of the hemi cars would be a good choice, IMO.
I would say that Corvette’s top speed is suspect…
At any rate, I rented both the 300 and the Charger and liked them way more than I thought I would. I’m an ex Panther owner (Grand Marquis Ultimate) and I found a lot to like in the Mopars. The engines were powerful enough (sixes), and the handling was a lot more refined than what I had in my GM. The interiors were only fair, but again, these were rentals. Would I buy one used? Maybe. New? No way.
He needs to be looking at Infiniti as a couple of others have posted. I know he said New but why pay for all of that depreciation? Look at the CPO market if you want a warranty. Lightly used (2007 or newer) G35x and M35 can be had all day around Charlotte for $25,000-$30,000. A couple grand more will get you a 2007 M45 Sport loaded from an Infiniti dealer! For my money and that criteria I’d go hunt down 2 2003 Infiniti M45s. This is the one with the Q45 V8 stuffed into the Cedric/Gloria body. They sold horribly because Infiniti never advertised them in the US, but they are real sleepers. For $30,000 you could buy 2 and still have $5,000-$10,000 left over.
2003 Lexus LS at my local dealer, with 50k for 23k….no takers, sitting three months….Looks clean inside only light wear
You can get a new CTS within your price range. They are very good cars. You’ll be stuck with the 3.0L V6, which I’m not a big fan of, but maybe that motor will be right up your alley.
The CTS, Charger, and Genesis sedan are fairly different. Just drive all three and the one you should buy ought to become clear.
There is an unsold red 2010 Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track near me whose MSRP has been reduced to $25k. It’d be a perfect mid-life crisis car for me.
Between these cars I’d be completely comfortable with picking the Charger. Until the ’11 Mustang came along and made me start thinking about brand-new cars, I was thinking of buying a nice used Charger R/T in the $25k range.
I eventually went with a new Challenger instead of a new Mustang, but that’s a story for another day. My Challenger is my 2nd late-model Dodge, joining an ’05 Dakota which comes from the darkest part of the DaimlerChrysler era yet still has been more dependable than the ’96 Thunderbird I had previously.
I like this topic, a friend and I were discussing the dearth of affordable large cars, particulalry RWD offerings, in the current market this past weekend. Amongst the well to do these are extremely popular so its difficult to fathom why there aren’t more mainstream offerings beyond the Genesis and the charger/300. The only other suggestion I have is the Cadillac STS. A quick internet search of new listings shows a wide range of prices but good number listed at the high-end of your range with the the 3.6L V6. I also wonder what the real price of these things are, I doubt many sell for MSRP. Most of the potential good lightly used deals have been mentioned, but I would also suggest the Lexus GS the 350 (V6) offers 300HP and a web search shows 10K-15K mile examples at the low-end of your price range. If you want the V8 the 460 with the same mileage comes in at the high-end of your price range. I like Infiniti’s a lot but I would excercise caution in the used market. The reliability of a used car has a lot to do with its previous owner. Maybe its just here in New Jersey, but Infinit drivers aren’t the first owners I’d want for my used car. We affectionatley refer to the G37 coupe as the “guido ‘stang,” and they are often the most aggressively driven vehicles on the roads of a state known for aggressive driving. Lexus drivers however tend to be older, affluent, profesionals. I think you have the same chance of finding a creampuff used Lexus as you do of finding a headache of a used Infiniti.
If I just had to own a rear wheel drive car, I would be shopping at my local Chrysler/Dodge dealership.
Anyone with a W126 is cool in my book.
Looking at that page in Car Life, as a Moparite, allow me to raise my arms triumphantly.
I think some of the E.T’s on that chart are the result of some bad driving technique, as are a lot of older mag E.Ts. Take a half second off, and they would be about right.
OP here.
First, thanks to Sajeev & Steve for their advice. Though I didn’t mention it in my email to them, my wife and I were time-crunched: The lease on our Passat was about to expire, so we only had a few weeks to make our decision. And our new vehicle is (drumroll)…. a Genesis.
We drove a Charger R/T Plus, and tried SO HARD to love it. When I walked onto the lot, I was sure our search was over. But during the test drive, a highway merge caused me to utter a four-letter word: S-L-O-W. Maybe it’s the ancient transmission, maybe it’s the 2-ton curb weight. The Hemi can sing, but it can’t dance.
Also bad: the flat seats and the poor visibility. The seats were especially disappointing, because although the suspension is shockingly capable, you’ll find yourself ghost-riding if you turn too hard.
So, we’re now reasonably proud owners of a Genesis. Like many who’ve driven them, we feel the ride is too harsh, but that’s the poison we picked. Other than that (and the generic looks), we really love it.
Oh, and the Pontiac G8. We hardly knew ye… I terribly miss my long-gone BMW e39 (bought CPO, turned to scheisse as soon as the warranty expired). So many of the G8’s reviews called it the second coming of the e39, so I was sure we’d buy a GT as soon as the Passat’s lease ended. What a cruel way for Pontiac to die: a death-row inmate, proven innocent at the last second, and they still flipped the switch.
I know there are many great and reputable used vehicles out there: the Infiniti M was especially appealing. But we’ve owned many used cars, and just want something that will be low-maintenance for the next five years. As I mentioned, our other car is a pristine Mercedes w126. That’s our trade-off: we have one trouble-free appliance-type car and one temperamental beauty.
Btw, Sajeev, my comment about the Charger being “untested” was only referring to the Pentastar engine.
Btw, Sajeev, my comment about the Charger being “untested” was only referring to the Pentastar engine.
Ah, that makes sense. Such is the flaw with this “write a letter/make judgment calls from it” style of auto writing.