Ryan writes (again):
Ryan from Chicago again. My fiancé is currently driving a 2006 Civic Sedan that she loves. It was bought by her parents in cash 5 years ago. It has 55K hard miles on it. As a car that gets driven around the city a lot, it is starting to show some wear and tear, but obviously has a lot of life left.
Her father is someone who lies to replace cars every 3-5 years, so in his mind the Civic is due for an upgrade. I don’t see the need for the change, but this will be like a free new car for a wedding present.
Now the question: Is there a better car out there for my fiancé than a new Civic. Here is what she loves about the car; it is small, it has 4 doors, it has cloth seats, it has a small steering wheel. That’s it. Knowing her father, he will only buy new and the budget is between $15K and $22.5K
With the wedding a few months away, any and all input is much appreciated.
Sajeev Answers:
I’m a big fan of brand loyal people staying that way. That said, if you bought one of the countless heaps of crap from every automaker and feel the need to leave, that’s more than cool: that’s the beauty of living in our capitalist utopia. Sludgy Toyotas, anything VW for the past decade, decades of hit or miss Detroit sedans, etc. are all good reasons to bail on your lover. No judgments here!
But come on, this is a Honda Civic: a legendary car that has either excited people to no end (V-TEC, son!) or provided a nearly perfect small car ownership experience for everyone else. Either way, why on earth would you mess with a good thing?
More to the point, as the son-in-law, don’t say a critical word about Daddy’s gift. Pick your battles for something more important, like the size of the flat screen TV in your rumpus room or how much time you can spend partying with your homeboys on a Saturday night. Done.
Steve Says:
“My fiancé is currently driving a 2006 Civic Sedan that she loves. It was bought by her parents in cash 5 years ago. It has 55K hard miles on it.”
I am sure the anger brigade will be out in force thanks to just these two sentences alone. They will be absolutely right in all their self-righteous glory. But perhaps there is a bigger lesson here.
Do you know much about cars? I’m not talking about what your read in the monthly mags or at TTAC. I’m asking if you know how to check your fluids. Change the air and oil filter. All the simple stuff that most folks aren’t taught.
The fiance may not know these things. If you do, and she is willing to learn, everyone may benefit from it. Why? Because financial independence begins and ends with all the little pearls of wisdom inside your head. Teach her a few things and perhaps you may learn something as well.
Her folks have done more than enough to help. The Civic is an exceptional car and any improvement you get by dumping $20 large on another vehicle will be minimal. If the folks are hellbent on spoiling the love of your life, let them dedicate the money towards a down payment on a house. But better yet, take a look at a book called ‘The Millionaire Next Door’. You’re in the death throes of ‘Economic Outpatient Care’ and even the wealthiest young couples can become debtful lifestyle addicts with little in savings.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder. In a rush? Don’t be shy about asking to cut in line.
If your lass loved the ’06 Civic, she’ll love the ’11 Civic, too. But, I’d wait for the ’12 model, due out in a few months. Get the sedan, then show your FIL how frugal and grateful you are by taking care of that thing for the next 20 years…..there will be room in the back for the carseats when you have kids, and with care, a new Civic will still be around and performing well when the first sprout starts to drive….give it to him to take to college….
With marriage comes children, and with children comes the sudden desire for back seat legroom, side airbags and other stuff you never thought about before. With 55,000 “hard miles” on this particular Civic I would take advantage of Honda’s strong resale values and find some dumb kid to help me ease my transition into my first real family car.
At only 55k, if they get this thing detailed it will be worth a fortune.
…at 55 000 miles, as hard as they’ve been, a Civic is barely broken in… Just keep up with the regular scheduled maintenance and it will give you another 100 000 at least.
HONDA is, first and foremost, the largest engine manufacturers in the world (Cars, motorcycles, yard machinery, generators, etc…)
Ask for the money in gold k-rands. Wait until the End of Days and retire.
Seriously, take the money and either buy a house or invest it wisely. 55K on just about any car is not much these days and while I luv that new car smell as much as anyone my next car will be used.
be thankful the family is able to give you a 20K push up the hill. That’s quite uncommon these days.
As a car that gets driven around the city a lot…
Maybe try the Insight or a new Elantra?
Steve, I totally agree with you on the Civic, but I think you’re missing out on the family dynamics:
Daddy doesn’t trust “old” cars
Daddy doesn’t want his Baby in an old car.
Daddy has money.
By keeping his fiance in a “dangerous” car and trying to divert Daddy’s money to a house, Ryan is putting Baby at risk. Bad, greedy Ryan!
I’ve worked with a Baby for years. Anything that’s out of warranty is death waiting to happen. It’s almost a primal fear.
I’m not saying it’s not worth broaching the subject, but I wouldn’t push very hard. BTW, if anyone wants to by me a new car, my Honda’s hitting 50k, and I won’t squawk. Although I would rather keep the Honda and pay off some debt.
Hold out for a Prius V, and get dad to pay for it?
big props to whomever found that photo!
I fully understand your situation, but, some battles are best not fought. Let your in-law buy his precious a new vehicle and use the residual on the 06 Civic toward a new or existing home. I love the Honda Civic but would suggest you look at something a tad bigger with a larger back seat and cargo area; maybe a Mazda 5 would work for you.
When we had our first kid we used our Honda Accord as the primary family hauler, but often wished we had more room. A year later when my second was born, we bought a Toyota Sienna minivan. I initially hated the mileage and the vehicle, but must admit it was well suited to hauling kids and all their stuff. That brings up a good point. If your wife is like mine, she will prepare for Armageddon each time you leave the house. You know, extra kids clothes, baby wipes, luxury stroller, compact stroller, snacks, bottle cooler, bottle warmer, diapers, etc. Before we knew it, our Accord’s trunk and back seat were filled for each trip. Trust me, you both will appreciate the extra room, especially if you travel to visit friends and/or relatives.
Agree with others. It’s a huge waste of money, but not your battle. I would gently encourage putting that money towards house, paying off debt or college fund for little ones in the future. But if daddy really wants baby in a new car, just let it happen (and sell me your Honda). I would get something bigger for kids and pets that may be in the near future.
Ryan here. I appreciate the advice to keep the car and save the money, but that just isn’t going to happen with the future father in law. I will add that the Civic is currently in the shop after the fiance was hit from behind on the interstate to the tune of $6000.
I do really like the Civic. I just wanted to put the question to the ttac minds to see if I had missed anything.
IMHO, that changes the equation considerably. $6K in repairs is a pretty good whack. I assume (hope) your fiancee was uninjured. I would certainly think about replacing the car after the repair. But I would suggest replacing it with the new model of the same car, given the other parameters you specified. Thinking about what your financee just experienced, I think she will probably not be interested in the Fit.
If you’re really obsessive about gas mileage, you can probably get a pretty fresh, albeit used, Prius for the price you’re considering. If it were me, I’d still go for the Civic; it’s a better car.
I’m always a little surprised to see such strongly held opinions to avoid buying cars at a car enthusiast site.
A new Honda Civic is a fine choice, but it may be time to look for the practicality of a hatchback. A Mazda3 hatch, or if they’re wiling to spend a little more a VW GTI or Mazdaspeed hatch would be fun and practical upgrades.
Dude, that changes everything. I just saw a re-run of The Hunt for Red October, you know the line where the Russkie Ambassador says in a exasperated voice to the U.S. defense secretary: “Sometimes I am compromised by the fact that Moscow does not tell me everything.” Make a few slight changes to that quote and Sanjay and Steven probably feel the same way right now.
Now that I know about the wreck, I have a little more sympathy for Daddy-in-law-to-be. Cars that sustain that kind of damage often suffer from annoying quirks, not to mention leaks, long after the body shop is done with them. I’d take Dad’s money and say thank you, and if you’re planning on kids soon it’s a good opportunity to upsize a bit.
Whether this is your first step on the road to hell depends on you and your in-laws. I’m fortunate enough to have a mother who occasionally writes four-figure checks to her children, I’ve yet to hear my wife complain about it.
I’m always a little surprised to see such strongly held opinions to avoid buying cars at a car enthusiast site
I can’t speak for the others, but for me. I just like to get a serious amount of life out of my cars. Maybe it is because I want to retire before 60, or liking to be able to crow about 190K on a car that CR said to avoid like poison. What I don’t understand is changing cars on a 3 to 5 year cycle. Even if I had cash like that to spend, I’d just have more cars instead of selling them. Cars that are one or two trick ponies are a lot more fun (in their element) to own than a one size fits all vehicle.
let them dedicate the money towards a down payment on a house.
Yeh, talk about a can’t lose investment.
Now is a good time. Cash is king.
Now is a good time
Sorry, declines of +30% easily possible.
jmo,
Your sentiment makes sense if your most important concern is resale value and you’re looking to sell in a few short years, but otherwise, it really is a great time to buy. Maybe Ryan and fiance aren’t looking for an “investment,” maybe they want a home. Prices may drop more or they may be bottoming out, but prices are low enough in general for anyone with the means to get into a good home. I know I wouldn’t want to be the buyer who pushes his luck by holding out just….a…little…bit…longer, only to have prices start to rise again. Buy when you want to buy.
My girlfriends sister enjoyed her ’06 Civic but looooooves her Honda Fit. I would give that a look. It’s still a small Honda, and even better on gas in the city than a new Civic.
The new Prius V that comes out this fall? Should be able to get one for mid $20k range. Enjoy 43mpg in the city (instead of 25mpg), the extra rear space, and not wanting to immediately sell it when you have a kid.
“With marriage comes children, and with children comes the sudden desire for back seat legroom, side airbags and other stuff you never thought about before” A 2006-2011 civic has all of that…
“More to the point, as the son-in-law, don’t say a critical word about Daddy’s gift.” This is very good advice! Also remember that it is her decision and not yours.
After all that, if I was shopping for a new replacement, I’d be taking a close look at a 2012 focus hatch, or wait for the next gen 2012 civic due to be released this year. My early impressions have the focus in as better to drive, and more practical with the hatch, but the civic might be the more financially safe choice.
My wife just bought a Nissan Cube and loves it. It has the criteria you fiancee mentioned above and is a great city car; easiest thing to park that I have ever driven. It also fall within your price range.
It is a love it or hate it vehicle; at first I hated it more than any other vehicle I have ever seen, much less driven. But I get to pick out my cars, and my wife gets to pick out hers, so what the hell. 6 months later I drive the thing all the time and my SUV sits in the driveway. Yeah, the Cube looks like a toaster but has a ton of room inside, it is fun to drive in town, and we are getting 33mpg in the city. The Cube is not bringing sexy back any time soon, but it may be a great car for your bride to be.
FWIW: as the others above have pointed out, getting sideways with daddy before or early into a marriage is not a good plan. Unless your girl likes you precisely because you piss off her parents (see: Baruth, Jack) you don’t want to start out at war with your in-laws.
My input is that you should postpone the wedding.
+1 for not pissing off the inlaws. +1 for 5 door hatch especially if kids are in the equation — Fit, Mazda3, Mazda5, Matrix, Elantra Touring, Fiesta, upcoming Focus.
Also of the opinion that 55K miles isn’t much on a Honda. I’ve owned 3 past 200k until wrecked or stolen, current one is at 180k and counting.
Keep the Civic for another 50K or until the first kids start arriving then get something more family friendly. At 55K the Civic still has plenty of life left in it and is still a very safe car. Take Sajeev’s advice and keep your money for mortgages, baby expenses and 529 college funds.
+1. I’m always a fan of Steve’s advice. There’s so much that 20K could buy you. On top of that, it’s not like you’re trading in a Civic for a different class of car. If your fiance had outgrown your Civic because of utility or design, then a new car could be better justified, but grabbing another compact of slightly newer vintage doesn’t seem as worthwhile.
Congratulations!
We had just one kid, and a Civic and then a Mazda Protege were big enough for all the stuff we schlepped. But if you’re planning more than one kid before the new Civic’s warranty is out, something bigger would be a good idea.
Agreement about not looking a gift horse in the mouth. Daddy wants to know his girl is driving around in something shiny and safe. Put the money from selling the old Civic into a house down payment or college fund.
Umm.. gee Ryan, methinks it is time to grow a pair and tell your future in-law that you are capable of making your own decisions. Using all the diplomacy and tact you can muster.
Then after a month or so agree to find a new ride for new bride.
Anything less will predispose you to a lifetime of anguish regarding any decision about what is best for you and yours.
I heard on story on Cartalk, where a woman called in saying she has a ’90 Toyota Corolla which she and father loves. Her finance calls it a “Death Box” and wants her to get a new car, but she doesn’t want too.
You know, today’s cars are made to last longer, so it is not necessary to buy a new car every 3-5 years anymore, unless you drive allot and is having problems. I have an almost 8-year old Toyota Camry in good condition with low mileage. I have no plans to buy a new car anytime soon.
Careful about accepting extravagant gifts from the parent generation. It can set a precedence in your new marriage.
Once you’re married there will come a time you and the love of your life will disagree. You don’t want to make it too easy for either of you to run to mom and dad to bail either one of you out. You will need to become a self sufficient couple totally independent of your parents and dependent only on each other. Parents will have trouble letting go of their children and want to become involved and influential in your new lives together. You need to ween your parents off of supporting either one of you. They need to adapt to a different role.
Having said that, if you were to acquire another car, you can do a whole lot worse than getting another Honda. If you plan on starting a family, it might be time to consider moving up to maybe an Accord or something in that size class.
Bullcrap… take the money, take all the help you can get. In this day and age, is it MUCH harder to succeed on your own than it used to be. If her dad has had success in life, and he is the type of man who wants to help his daughter and her husband achieve financial success as well, who are you to refuse?? The economic deck is totally stacked against you unless you are wealthy, and honestly, its not like hes buying her a new Beemer. It is a completely practical compact car that would serve anyone well for many years and many miles. Dad sounds like he is intelligent and practical, good family traits for you to marry into.
Steal the money and throw a neighbourhood crack-whore party. That ought to let dad-in-law know who’s wearing the pants.
I’ve got an ’02 Civic sedan. It’s been mine on and off since it was new. It was in a fairly major accident in ’03 and was repaired. It’s slow, the paint is coming off the hood (bad respray) and there’s some really irritating rattles in the dashboard. But it’s still a damn good car after nine years and a lot of abuse. Everything works and it’ll do at least 85 on the highway without a problem. Today the car’s just a commuter/backup to my ’11 Mustang, but I’ll never sell it until the wheels fall off.
If you’re paying for your fiance’s new car, don’t do it. That Civic has a lot of life left in it, and she loves the car so she should keep it. There’s not a single excuse for getting rid of it. Wait another five years. And if daddy wants to pay for it…suggest he help you with the down payment on a house instead. Yeah, a new car would be nice, but it doesn’t sound like you or your future wife really want or need one.
Since it was just wrecked dump it as soon as it gets out of the body shop, it can take awhile for the damage to show up on CarFax and the like so get while the getting is good. You’ll never get more for it later.
Then once the wedding is over start putting the amount of money equal to a car payment in the bank each month and don’t touch it. In a few years you’ll have the $ to pay cash for a new car or make a down payment on a house.
Since it was just wrecked dump it as soon as it gets out of the body shop, it can take awhile for the damage to show up on CarFax and the like so get while the getting is good. You’ll never get more for it later.
You’re suggesting that he commit fraud. Not good advice. If he takes that advice, fiancee should leave him now.
In my state (and I assume most others) it is a requirement to disclose any damage amounting to 20% or more of the value of the car when transferring the title. The question is on the title, in the sign-over signature area, and must be notarized.
You won’t get away with this just because Carfax might take a while to catch up. There are plenty of other ways the wreck can be discovered, including when the buyer goes to insure the car and the underwriter looks it up in the comprehensive loss experience database that all insurance companies maintain and share, or the first time any mechanic worth his salt looks at it and sees the extensive repairs.
Daddy’s offer ameliorates any worry about taking a bath on this car because of the wreck. Take the offer, get sweetie into a new, warrantied, never wrecked car and get out of this one with a clear conscience.
No requirement in my state to disclose any damage on a sale. No area on the title to note such things. If the damage exceeds 50% of the value then the car will receive a “re-built” title. So at least in my state, and I suspect in most others, it would not be committing fraud.
Id get another Civic out of the deal, or maybe a CRV if you think you might have kids in the next couple years. You dont need a minivan for a while.
You will be very happy in a Civic, go for the S model with the nicer black interior and visual cues of the Si without the engine and manual trans.
+1 for the CR-V which my own “baby” drives. It’s a Civic CUV as I understand it, seems perfectly suited to her needs, has leather and heated seats and serves faithfully in NE weather. (I’d say she’s not at all spoiled, but is accustomed to a certain standard of maintenance, which is a good thing for all concerned, imho.)
Enjoy that gravy train while it lasts. An old high school friend of mine gets a new car every 3 years from his Dad (car nut) even to today and he’s in his mid 30’s now. I only wish my parents were wealthy and obsessed enough to do this for me, but my tastes would be much more expensive than a < $22k car. This beggar would definitely be a chooser.
Take the money, bank it, and keep the Civic. 55k miles? Replace it? Are you kidding me?
John
The offer isn’t for cash it’s to buy a car. Also the Civic just needed $6K in body work so yeah it’s time to say bye-bye to it.
All these comments about trying to get daddy to give a down payment for a house instead of the car are nuts. If hes willing to drop $20k for a new car for his baby, he will also be willing to drop some coin so his princess can live in a “decent” home later on.
TAKE THE CAR (and see if he will let you keep the old Civic for yourself to drive, esp if the trade-in is lousy thanks to the wreck), then in a year or so start house shopping, I bet the down payment offer comes before princess even has to ask for it! :)
Yep, not much you can do when baby needs a new car according to her parents. I’ve been in a similar situation and baby’s new car has needed minor repairs/maintenance that I could have fixed for $50 and an afternoon most of the time. But no, baby must take her car to the DEALER to get official repair for hundreds of dollars and an entire day without the car. It bothers me because they know I maintain and repair my own car myself and the repairs I do are completely legit but ultimately its not worth the battle and a new car is a new car after all.