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Investigators are still trying to determine the cause of a bus crash on New York’s I-95, but it’s clear from these photos [via ABC] what caused many of the 14 fatalities in the crash: a sign warning motorists of red-light photo enforcement is what appears to have ripped the bus in half. Now, as much as we dislike photo enforcement, we wouldn’t argue that the sign caused this tragedy… but the irony of a sign intended to improve safety actually becoming a deadly obstacle is more than we can ignore.
23 Comments on “What’s Wrong With This Picture: Red Light Cameras Kill Edition...”
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Pictures 2 and 3 look like the red light camera signs were just additions to a larger traffic direction sign. I hate photo enforcement of all kinds, but it’s bit disingenuous to suggest that cameras were involved in this incident.
A zoomed out view from the ABC link:
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/gallery?section=news&id=8009559&photo=15
The point is what irony it is.
The stanchion has nothing to do with the red light enforcement sign. It holds the huge overhead sign for the Hutch. A stupid, disingenuous point indeed.
That’s the first thing that I thought when I saw the helicopter views of this tragedy – the signpost was not protected by a jersey barrier, which could have saved many lives. Highway design leaves a lot to be desired, yet there are calls to reduce funding for it.
I thought modern highway signposts had to be secured with shear bolts so this type of thing wouldn’t happen. I guess not.
That picture does not tell the whole story. That is not a signpost for just the signs shown, it is one side of a truss structure that spans the multi-lane highway, carrying big billboard type road signs. It only looks like a signpost because that picture is pointed directly at the edge of it. You can just see the bottom edge of one of those signs in the upper left of the picture. That type of support does not have shear bolts, as shear bolts weak enough to do any good would not be strong enough to hold the signs up in a storm, and also you would not want that thing coming down across the highway and involving even more vehicles.
There are guardrails between the roadway and the sign structure, it looks like the bus tipped over on top of it and slid along it. I’ve seen trucks go right through guardrails and jersey barriers – they really only stop cars.
See the video here for a better idea of what was involved:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42057418/?gt1=43001
Perhaps light posts do. For overhead signs, breaking away might cause more safety issues with the signs falling into the roadway.
But also that pole was hit not with the heavy part of the vehicle, but with the glass and spindly window frames bits. Buses and RVs are, above the beltline, a lot more like garden sheds than passenger vehicles.
Just to underscore:
A sign POLE killed the passengers, not one of the (many) signs attached to it. I don’t think it’s really ironic at all, and it feels a little insensitive to make remarks about it. Sorry, that’s just my opinion as I look at this mess.
Agreed. Insensitive. The Editors’ collective preoccupation with speed and red light cameras is affecting their editorial judgment severely… and makes for a lot of boring blog entries.
I couldn’t agree with both of you more. I’m not implying conscious insensitivity or anything of the like on your part, Mr Niedermeyer. Preoccupancy really seems to fit quite well. Remember when you quoted that fake study a couple of weeks back? Posts like this and that really demonstrate that you are not living up to the “the truth about cars” moniker on the issue at all. I strongly disagree with your stance on speeding enforcement (while I’m all for driving fast, being German), but I enjoy reading articles or posts that challenge my viewpoint if they are well-written, well-researched, or insightful. Unfortunately many of your posts and reports on the issue fail to do any of that. This is an otherwise brilliant blog, but the surge of those “rants” really dilute the experience. I know that I can choose to ignore them (and by now I mostly do), but it is sad to have that be part of an otherwise very high quality and highly enjoyable publication. Of course I don’t mind your personal and editorial stance on the issue, but a bit more journalistic restraint and broad-mindedness on the issue would do TTAC well.
I agree here 100%. Would this have been posted if that was a SPEED LIMIT 65 sign or a MERGE RIGHT sign? The structure holding up that sign is what sliced the bus open, and if that structure failed the massive signs (some of which are as big of the front of a two story house) would have caused a lot more problems.
Uhh, yeah, there really isn’t anything ironic about it. 14 people died and it had absolutely nothing to do with red lights or camera enforcement thereof. Poor form TTAC.
I am actually surprised that Ed would write an article like this. Its poor taste.
Slow news day? I don’t really see the “irony”. The sign had nothing to do with it. It is, as of now, a sequence of events that ended in tragedy. The cause is under investigation.
I must admit Ed, not cool. Shoulda thought twice before posting this.
Is there some proper amount of time we’re supposed to wait before appreciating the irony of things now? Some type of structure holding a sign advising of red light cameras killing a lot of people. Should I appreciate this in 3 months? 1 year? 10 years?
Where’s the poor taste?
So every accident involving a highway sign is supposed to be funny? I’d have given Ed a pass (barely) if the sign said something like ‘Please Drive Safely.’
There are concerns being investigated regarding a truck clipping the bus, witness reports that the bus was being driven fast and carelessly, and the driving background of the driver. Any definitive conclusions may take a while.
I don’t see why shear bolts wouldn’t work on this sign. There is a distinctly different force generated by a crash like this compared to wind loading. Otherwise no highway posts etc. would have shear bolts. It’s possible the sign had shear bolts, but the bus is so flimsy across the windows that the bolts held.
“Clear” — I hate red light cameras as much as the next guy, but this is supposed to be the TRUTH about cars, not the PROPAGANDA about cars.
To assume that that sign had anything to do with this accident this stage is irresponsible.
What’s wrong with this picture is that the truth of the accident has nothing to do with “red light cameras kill” As such, it is an insult to the lives that were lost to attempt any connection between this accident any any political message one wishes to promote.
Please, next time, think twice before such an inappropriate post.
The irony isn’t lost on me, and I wouldn’t have even noticed if you hadn’t pointed it out Ed, so don’t let the detractors get you down.
The Truth of this accident has yet to be determined, and based on some conflicting statements I’ve read may not be determined for quite some time. It does seem strange that there isn’t even a guard rail or metal cable fence to deflect incoming objects away from the post.
The idea that jersey barriers only stop cars is ridiculous; those of you who can access youtube during the daytime can pull any number of videos of Class7 and Class8 trucks impacting jersey barriers during tests and bouncing right off of them back into the roadway. Buses might be different unless heavily loaded with luggage, but the jersey barrier is effective for vehicles far larger than cars.
In my opinion, this is very poor form for TTAC. Back with the SUA recalls that Toyota was having, TTAC made a very big stand about not making jokes about SUA when Hiromu Naruse died.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/06/toyota-chief-test-driver-dies-in-lfa-crash/
Yet, it seems to be ok that when people on a bus die, it is ok to call irony on a sign talking about red light cameras that had nothing to do with the accident. This is terrible form.