James writes:
Hey Sajeev, James here (well duh.) I’m at a conundrum of logic-versus-emotion and I need someone to talk me out of this idea. My current car is an ’07 Accord EX sedan, 4-cylinder, 5-speed, low miles (like 42k, hardly broken in.) It’s a great car – costs almost nothing to maintain,comfortable, great shifter, good gas mileage. The only thing is, I don’t actually… well… like it.
I’ve always had a thing for turbocharged Swedish cars (oh lord.) My last car was a beautiful Saab 900 SPG that blew up in dramatic fashion despite me throwing a frankly insane amount of money at it while I owned it. Thus the appliance-like Honda now.
However, I’ve always had an attraction to Volvo T-5 powered cars, in particular the 850 and S70/V70 (first-generation). My first car was a non-turbo 850 auto sedan, and I always said I’d have kept it if it had a clutch pedal or a turbo motor. I seem to have come across the perfect T-5 and I’m considering selling the Honda, buying the T5, and investing the rest of the money somewhere more useful (than a depreciating asset I don’t like all that much.)
The car’s a ’98 V70 T-5 wagon with a (rather rare) 5-speed transmission. Just got a new timing belt, tensioners, and rollers like a month ago. It’s totally stock except for a set of 17″ V70R wheels, it’s got just over 100k miles on it, and from the pictures it looks immaculate. I know the weak spots on these cars (mainly the rear main seal, clutches, ABS pumps) but this one has records since new and has been Volvo-nut maintained. It’s also worth about 5k less than my Honda, which would be a useful chunk of savings for me since I’m pretty young. So from my optimistic standpoint it seems win-win – get a car I’ve always wanted that seems perfect, and save money on insurance, while putting away some money in savings. But maybe I’m just creating my own logic to justify buying a 14 year old European turbo wagon. What say you?
Sajeev answers:
I think you’d be almost as happy upgrading the dampers, wheels/tires, swaybars on your Accord, with a better (value) car in the end. But hey, what the heart wants, the heart sometimes gets: those older turbo Volvos are quirky, cool and fairly reasonable to wrench on. So let’s give it a chance, and pull in TTAC’s own Swedish Surgeon, Alex Dykes.
Alex Dykes answers:
James, you managed to pick one of the best years for the V70 T5. The only thing better than a 1998 T5 wagon with the 5-speed manual is a 2000 V70R with the 5-speed manual grafted to it. As you have probably researched, the 1999 and 2000 V70s had a problematic drive-by-wire throttle. By sticking with ’98 models you can keep the maintenance cheap and cheerful. The major S70/V70 quibbles tend to be the ABS controller which can be repaired rather than replaced, the soft OEM upper engine mount wears rapidly, the door trim panels “bubble” due to some questionable adhesives being used and the T5 can chew through caps and rotors in as little as 15,000 miles.
Compared to your ’07 Accord, I’d probably take the cheap Swedish hauler if you like some wrenching. The S70/V70 is incredibly easy to work on, the 5-cylinder is a funky engine that quickly earns your love, torque steer be damned! And FWD wheel hop is pretty fun in the T5, which it will do aplenty while laying down some rubber.
Since you say it has about 100,000 miles on it, be sure the previous owner has changed the timing belt AND the tensioner. The ’98 models used a hydraulic tensioner that must be changed at 70,000 miles. Since Volvo’s T5 is an interference engine, broken timing belts are the only thing that stands in your way of many carefree miles. IPD sells belts and all the tools you need to make the change. Be sure the climate control works properly before you buy, flashing lights mean the blend doors are sticking. If the door panels show any signs of the pleater “bubbling” then know that the only solution is new door panels from Volvo at a couple hundred a pop (ask me how I know). My 1998 S70 T5 is still running, now on it’s third owner (friend of mine) and has just crested 280,000 miles with it’s original engine, turbo, and transmission. The clutch finally gave out around 250,000 miles. If the V has been well treated, then it’s only barely broken in. Buy it, get your self a set of Torx sockets and burn some front wheel rubber.
Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry.
Like you, good sir, I left behind a perfectly good but thirsty vehicle I loved wrenching on so I could get an ’08 Civic. It’s a fine car, well-engineered, fast enough, but MAN is it boring. Having to think you care about things like warranties and reliability and no-you-can’t-wrench-it-yourself-because-its-new means I can’t yet put it on the massive, massive diet it needs to be a fun car. So kudos to you, sir, for considering escaping the burden of practicality, if you do get something fun, please report back so that I may be swayed as well. I want a round-headlight WRX wagon or its SAAB cousin and damn the expense!
Do you actually need this car for transportation? If so (and I own the same vehicle), what Sajeev said. Otherwise, swap and wrench away!
The ABS controller can be repaired by simply resoldering the circuit board that holds all the relays. You can see the bad solder connections on the board by flexing it. Use a small iron and carefully resolder them. That’s a 300 dollar part right there you just fixed yourself.
Clean the rosin flux from the board with alcohol and then paint the board with clear lacquer paint to protect from moisture and your done.
I’ve done quite a few of these already.
“My current car is an ’07 Accord EX sedan, 4-cylinder, 5-speed, low miles (like 42k, hardly broken in.) It’s a great car – costs almost nothing to maintain,comfortable, great shifter, good gas mileage. The only thing is, I don’t actually… well… like it” – Funny stuff.
If you do bite the bullet and live near southern california, I’d love to check out your accord. I love the seats in volvos…
As the driver of a ’96 850R wagon, I can attest to the powers of Volvo turbo love. Even with 192K miles on it, my red wagon scoots like nobody’s business. It’s not a perfect car — far less pristine than the one James is considering, but it has a lot of the same fun bits. What other car can I drive, haul yard waste, fit my kids and their assorted stuff, take my dog to the vet and still run around with a big silly grin on my face?
I say, go with your heart on this one. Life is too short to drive dull — as long as you know what you are getting yourself into (maintenance/upkeep and repairs-wise), then have fun. Learn how to do the work yourself or find a local mechanic who knows Volvos and these cars. Treat the car right and it will treat you right for quite a few years to come.
My 1997 850/T5 wagon (4sp auto) had the ABS problem, but the replacement circuit board was covered under an extended warranty. Only time I got any value under one of those add-ons. What wasn’t covered was the alcohol-induced rotting of many of the rubber parts in the fuel system. In hot weather, my garage reeked like a distillery. (Also not covered was the a**h*le who ran into the back of it at a stop sign, totaling the car.) I stopped considering extended-warranty contracts when the price exceeded the value of any covered repairs. Go figure.
If you’re youngish, employed, and $5k is a big deal I’d suggest you keep the Accord and explore the dichotomy between transportation and fun.
Transportation is supposed to get you there, and if the Accord does that don’t mess with it. It’s got a 5-speed so you’re way ahead of most people for the fun factor anyway.
Wait a bit, pay off debts save up some cash. Then buy that interesting, needy project or buy a motorcycle. That way you can have some fun without risking your job or staying up till midnight on Sunday doing some last minute wrenching thrash.
This is the line of thought that keeps me driving a Dodge Caravan to work while having a project car and a sportbike in the garage at home for the weekends.
Yup. I drive an ’07 base Fit with a 5-speed. It’s paid for and still has warranty for another 25k miles. Rather than run out and trade it in on something a little hoonier the second I received the title, I took a couple grand I had in savings and bought a decent to good ’82 Alfa GTV6. It’s in the middle of a DIY restoration at the moment, but before I dismantled it I drove it pretty regularly and got more than I needed in terms of gearhead pleasure from the just sound of the V6 finding the redline.
I wouldn’t rely on an older, quirkier daily driver that possesses special resources to keep parts in supply and a mechanic on retainer if I could manage other transportation. Keep the Honda, find a project.
In the end, I decided to Keep the Accord. AND the 900 SPG, which I’m working on pulling the engine out of now to fix the transmission. But that was just about the best T5 you could’ve gotten. I decided I valued having a problem-free daily driver too much at this point in my life.
thanks guys!
LMAO. As I was reading the bit about how the previous 900 SPG went out in spectacular fashion, I thought, “Wow. Two guys named James popped 900 SPGs. Crazy.” Didn’t make the connection.
Of course, now this thread has me back to wanting a V70R. (sigh)
The funny thing is, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I’d rush out and buy about two dozen sub-$5K cars that I’ve always wanted. I can’t be the only one…
Concur with DougD. I’ve definitely found that the secret to car bliss is polyautory. You have that sensible transport module to get you to work, and the fun, impractical thing for sh*ts and grins.
Admittedly, this is harder when you’re young, living in an apartment, hand to mouth, etc., so a little saving up is in order. But it’s easier than you might think–make your sensible car a prudent choice (which you have), and cut the insurance down on both as far as you reasonably can (no need for a rental car rider, for instance, because you have built-in backup).
And then you’ll have the pleasure of sitting back and contemplating your fleet!
Jan Lammers, arguably the best Dutch racing driver so far although his F1 carreer never really took off (unfortunately, the best result for a Dutch driver in an F1 race remains 3rd place).
Still, Jan did quite ok (on track, not financially) with his European Formula 3 title, Le Mans victory and of course, driving this Volvo 850 Estate for TWR.
You love 5-cylinder cars. There’s nothing I can say to help you.
Exactly the same kind of lust pulls me toward SAABs. Will probably get myself SAAB #7 (04-05 9-5 Aero with a stick shift) once my indefinitely better part is confident enough to drive on her own and the Subie goes to her.
that Accord can get progressive springs, good shocks, high grade brake pads, steel brake lines, bigger breathing pipes, some bracing, good tires, and it will be fun and discrete, totally tossable, and its durability not affected one bit.
It’s funny that this came up today. Yesterday I would have told you to stick with the Honda. Today I did a used car inspection on an S60 with an auto. Even with the auto trans, you could not get the smile off my face while driving the thing. I also think that Volvo seats are absolute perfection. Comfortable and soft, yet the bolsters are fantastic. If the car was a stick, I probably would of traded my Sentra for it, logic be damned. So go for it. You only live once.
Go for the T5. They are rarely found in such well kept condition. Enjoy it and take care of it and the depreciation should be rather slight. Other than the few known weak spots they are well engineered cars which were built very much a cut above the Accord.
The nice folks at turbobricks.com and brickboard.com can help you keep ‘er nice. But don’t let them get the scent before you seal the deal!
James’s story sounds really familiar, and I get the feeling that I read it somewhere on the interwebs within the last six months or so. Was it here at TTAC?
Get the Volvo, when it turns into a money pit (which could be many miles from now), your heart may long for another quirky and less troublesome drive.
My ’99 S70 base had 200k miles on it, still drove like new, anyone that’s taken a look underneath the car complimented me that it still looked factory new. My only complaint was the need to top up oil mid-cycle, and that the A/C compressor clutch would overheat and disengage.
I wish I didn’t have to give it up but my girlfriend wanted to drive a much newer car. So I say… follow your heart!