Last month it seemed like Camry could stay away from the burgeoning knife fight in the midsize segment, but thanks to some aggressive incentives, Nissan was able to record a rare monthly win in the meaty D-Segment. Malibu took a tumble, falling below the Prius’s monthly sales although hybrid sales may have spiked due to quake-related shortage fears and may yet recede depending on how supply interruptions play out. Meanwhile, this segment also has some bearing on the mounting Ford-GM rivalry: while Ford’s Fusion battles with the best-sellers, enjoying a legitimate shot at the annual sales crown, Malibu is falling out of the front pack and into the second tier of competition. Still, with the volatility we’re seeing in this segment, it’s too early to draw any hard-and-fast conclusions.
The big shocker for me is how poorly the Mazda 6 is doing…it’s being beat by the Chrysler 200 & Dodge Avenger!? Wow!
The Mazda6 has only sold 35k units per year since the 2009 redesign. Despite the fact that it’s as good or better than anything else in its class!
I’m not surprised that Toyota is lagging behind even though in the overall scheme of things they still sell (and sold) an awful lot of Camry sedans, boring and dependable as they may be. What surprises me is that Hyundai Sonata has not done better. But that could be simply due to the fact that they do not have the capacity to produce to match demand. If Ford and GM keep lagging like this, the tax payers will never get their money back.
Sales of the Sonata is limited by production constraints.
For March, Hyundai sold just about 40k Sonatas and ’11 Elantras, which on a yearly basis, is around 480k.
Hyundai’s Alabama plant has a yearly production capability of around 300k.
So how do you explain Nissan’s capacity of 250k / year from it’s 2 plants. You can’t claim production capacity.
Camry buyers are holding back. They are keeping their power dry. They all know the all new 2012 Camry is only months away. The rest of the field has not matched the 2011 Camry. The rest of the field will be having a cow when the 2012 Camry hits the streets. Ford will still be selling the Fusion, which is really a rework of the 10+ year old Mazda 6 chassis. Way to go Ford. How many more years are you going to get out of that old Mazda 6?
bd2, there’s a shortage of Sonatas in my area and just a few days worth of the new Elantra. Santa Fe is also short on stock. The rest of the Hyundai line seems to be matched to demand in my area. My understanding is that Southern California is placing enormous pressure on Hyundai and its distributors and that the dealers in that area can sell everything they can get, in case of the Turbo, at a premium.
jj99, I think you are right about Camry buyers holding back because the local Toyota dealer only has two Camry, both XLE, on the lot. Prius is also short in this area, and Yaris. Although I’m not in the market for a Camry, I hope that the new model will improve on the old model, even though it is rumored that Toyota will equip the Camry only with a 4-cylinder from 2012 on. Does anyone know when the new Camry will be released for sale?
The Camry’s will still be awhile coming….There seems to be a shortage of “ugly stcks” to whack them with.
LOL! Ugly, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. And if the Toyondasans keep selling their ugly ducklings the way they have been selling them, we all better get used to ugly. When I first laid eyes on the 2008 Highlander my wife wanted to buy I thought it repulsive. But it has grown on me. And it if keeps up the excellent service it is giving her, I don’t care how ugly other people think it is. What matters is how well it runs. That’s what makes the Citroen 2CV such a jewel of a vehicle. It is downright butt-ugly! But it has been known to run forever with no maintenance other than tires and belts. I had a 1969 Simca (european model) like that. Ugliest car I ever owned. Put well over 300,000km on it while in Europe and only changed tires, brakes, belts and hoses, and of course oil and filter changes. Yeah, 300,000km, and it still had the original Platinum plugs in it. Ugleeeeee. But trouble-free.
The Fusion is selling well in this company, it gets excellent reviews, it gets the nod from the CR red dot sluts, and it is a good drive. Despite the old(er) platform, it owes none of these cars an apology, and is arguably a better car than the present Camry on many fronts. Will it hold its reliability edge when it is 10 years old? Nobody can say for sure but I wouldn’t be concerned. How will it fare to the new Camry? I’ll wager that it will still be a better car dynamically, but if Toyota did their homework, the Camry should be better in other regards. That said, I would still buy the Altima over any of these, despite the CVT that I find annoying during my commute. The Altima is a joy to drive. The Malibu is really a much better car than its sales would suggest, though its numbers are not that bad it has a lot of bad karma to overcome. The Japanese took most of the 70’s to win back America after the first fuel crisis rustbuckets; it will take GM as least as long to regain any respect.
Are potential Camry buyers holding back? Maybe, but again I’ll wager that most buyers have no clue about a design cycle. If Toyota cuts good deals on the existing models, it offers a good buy on a car that historically commands a premium price. jj99 do your kids really get excited about a Camry? What has become of today’s youth? Whatever happened to lusting over cool cars?
I can’t understand why the Sonata is so far out in front of the Optima. I wonder if the 200 will catch the Malibu?
My understanding was that Hyundai has a larger dealer network than Kia and is more highly regarded. When I’ve compared similar trims of the Optima and the Sonata on True Delta the Sonata usually comes out ahead once the higher level of standard equipment is figured in. (Price vs value.)
If you combine the 200 and the Avenger (mostly because they are platform mates) then the car really sold over 13,000 examples.
If thats the case, it really almost has.
In terms of the Optima, it may be because of a late release and the fact they weren’t at dealers all month long in numbers.
That Altima sales number is the REAL big surprise here.
That Altima sales number is the REAL big surprise here.
The Altima is a way, way better car than people give it credit for, but the reason is Nissan went to town with incentives.
The Altima may be a great car, but I always thought it’s tough to pony up for a car that hasn’t had a substantial redesign in what, 10 years? I cannot discern the difference between a 2002 and a 2011 unless I really stare. guess the number of value buyers are greater than we think
and on Honda v Kia, agree with Dan. surprising the hyundais come out cheaper, since they’re certainly more luxurious in every regard, too. The Kia nameplate right or wrong, still screams low rent. In college I briefly considered buying a Sephia which was possibly their first compact to hit US shores, solely because it was priced at $9995. then I saw what looked like 6 inch wide tires and chose life over saving a few bucks.
The Optima is even more hampered by production constraints than the Sonata.
Currently, only 14k Optimas are being produced monthly worldwide, with the US getting about half of that production.
Don’t expect US Optima sales to rise much until Kia starts US production of the Optima later this year.
There’s a 3 month wait for the Optima in Korea, Australia gets a whopping total of 1k Optimas for the year, and Europe will just have to wait longer (with the European launch of the Optima being bumped back again).
The Optima is even more constrained by production limitations than the Sonata.
Currently, worldwide, only a mere 14k Optimas are being produced monthly with the US getting a little over half of that production.
It’s interesting to see the three distinct groupings – top 4, then the 2nd 3, then the also-rans stocking the third section.
I have to admit that I’m perplexed by the poor showing of both the Malibu and the Sonata.
The Malibu is kind of off-the-radar. It’s nice enough, but it still sells on price for many people.
The Sonata is similar; it isn’t as good as the automotive press makes it out to be. Oh, it’s good, but it’s hardly the second coming of Christ. And it, like the Malibu, isn’t being discounted enough to move.
Both companies need to “hang in there” and keep building momentum.
@psarhjinian
People may have diff. opinions about the Sonata, but that’s not what’s limiting Sonata sales.
Sonata sales are being limited by production constraints, which will also be the same case for the new Elantra.
It’s the reason why Hyundai is seriously considering building another US plant.
This is the bread-and-butter segment for all car makers and Ford and GM need to do a whole lot better in this segment if they ever want to be able to repay the tax payers all that money that was rained down upon them after carmageddon. After all that talk about how great Ford and GM products are today, I’m a little surprised to still see Toyondasans in the top three. The way the pro-Detroiters were portraying the improvements in American brand cars you would think that they would be at the top, and the foreign brands straggling way behind them. Maybe someone forgot to tell this to the buyers in the real world. Ya think?
desertcat –
It was GM and Chrysler that received the golden shower, not Ford. Also, this has always been the bread and butter segment for Toyota and Honda, not for Detroit. The D3 have historically made a large chunk of their profits from SUVs and trucks, which is one reason they let their products slide in this segment in the past.
Of course, with rising gas prices, smaller vehicles are becoming of greater importance, and the good news is quality vehicles like the Fusion and Malibu are climbing upwards on the charts. There is no way for Ford or GM to suddenly jump to the top of the chart with a single model over the course of a couple years, the Japanese have dominated this segment for too long. Continued improvement, however, will continue to see the sales of the D3 products rise, and soon enough they will be at the top. Taking over a segment like this needs to be measured in years and decades.
NulloModo, you are absolutely right, of course, that GM and Chrysler received a lot of money overtly. Ford, however, was not left behind, and received much re-tooling money (that will never be repaid) in addition to various covert tax breaks and accounting privileges. Since money is fungible, we have no way of knowing if that money was indeed used for re-tooling or for the development of the Raptor 6.2, not exactly the posterchild for fuel economy.
Like many others I would like to see Ford and GM do well and repay all that money to the tax payers. It took decades for the imports, foreigners and transplants to displace the domestic car makers on their home turf and dominate sales in America, so I agree with you that it will take decades for Ford and GM to win back that lost ground. But in all reality, I do not believe that Ford and GM have the luxury of even five years to turn things around in America because MOST Americans prefer to buy a foreign brand in spite of all the negativity initiated by Ray LaHood and the Obama administration (in order to sell more of their Government Motors cars).
The number of people actually buying domestic cars and trucks are simply not enough to make Ford and GM break even, much less profitable again. The only way Ford and GM can make money at what they are doing is to move production and assembly to Mexico, South Korea, China and India, with some local production for Brazil, Russia and Australia. Unless they do that GM will go belly up (again) by 2015. Ford will be insolvent and relying on Toyota by 2016. Obama has to reduce the number of foreign brand cars Americans buy or are willing to buy so that Ford and GM will become the defacto car makers in America, much like it was prior to 1979.
highdesertcat –
I’m guessing you are referring to the DOE and other government loans that Ford took advantage of, but were also available to all solvent automakers, and at the end of the day are just that – loans, which are accounted for and intended to pay back. Speaking of paying things back, Ford has reduced its debt by a huge portion this past year, and according to a lot I have read, now has greater cash on hand than total debt.
Perhaps it’s because I lost my tin foil hat, but I don’t believe there was any kind of government conspiracy to slander Toyota. Looking at the midsize sedan segment alone, Ford is within 1,000 units of Honda year to date, and doesn’t face an insurmountable lead vs. Toyota. It isn’t as if Toyota’s sales are double Ford’s or GM’s in this segment. Yes, Toyota has a lead, but it’s a lot less of a lead than there was ten, or even five, years ago.
As far as profitability goes, Ford has already more than broken even, and has in fact recorded some huge profits recently. As the economy recovers, sales numbers increase, and incentives decrease, these profits will just grow larger. I believe GM also recently registered profits. The UAW issue could be a sticking point, and it is one that the imports have been able to avoid by setting up shop in non-union states, but so far Ford and GM at least seem to be finding ways to make money even paying union wages. Yes, there will likely be more factories and production in Mexico and South America, but that is due to more than savings on labor rates – the South American market is important to Ford and GM, especially as a potentially large growth market, and due to trade agreements and tariffs building in Mexico makes allows a vehicle to be sold easily in the US as well as Brazil.
As it is right now, Americans are already buying more vehicles from Ford and GM than from Honda and Toyota, and as the quality of the D3 products continues to improve, there is no reason to assume that the trend won’t continue. As anecdotal as it may be I have tons of customers cross shopping the Fords that I sell with Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, and Hyundais, and oftentimes buying the Fords. I’ve had plenty of customers who jumped ship from Detroit to Japan back when the D3 vehicles were less than stellar who are now coming back to domestics because they see the quality of the product has improved to on par or superior to what the imports are offering.
The big challenge will be keeping the forward momentum and not falling back into old bad habits. If Ford can continue to update, refresh, redesign and improve upon the core vehicle lineup in a timely fashion, continue to improve initial quality and long term reliability, and continue to push the limits on fuel economy and in-vehicle technology, the future looks pretty rosy. The culture of chasing short term profits through decontenting, letting vehicles age and whither on the vine, and cutting corners in build quality is what got Detroit in trouble and allowed the imports to gain a foothold and eventually take the lead. I’m hopeful that the lessons were learned this time around, and that the D3 won’t return to their old bag of tricks.
Hey, I’m all for more sales for Ford and GM. I’m even more interested in seeing all this bail out money, or loans by any other name, be paid back, in full, plus interest, at the earliest possible date. But I am also not a believer in the concept that Ford and GM have enough time left for both re-entry, re-alignment and restitution. From what I have read both Ford and GM would need more than double the number of buyers that they have now in order for them to be profitable AND repay back all the money they owe, and sustain those levels on a monthly basis. It would be better for Ford and GM if the foreigners did not exist to siphon off those sales each day/week/month/year that could otherwise be used to rebuild these broken companies. But it is useless to argue either way because time is the great revealer of truths, and I remember well how others expressing the same sentiments as NulloModo were telling the whole world how a collapse of the US auto industry was an impossibility, back in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. Nevertheless, carmageddon happened. And whether quality and value is a perceived trait or not, the annual sales numbers smack us back to the harsh reality that neither Ford nor GM can continue at this pace without tax payer support in one form or another, which includes preferential tax treatment. Without the the crutch that the US tax payer provides, both Ford and GM would be toast. What has helped them tremendously, both financially and from the quality aspect, is that they moved production to Mexico where the workers still cared about putting out a good product and didn’t worry about getting parity with CEO pay.
@nullomodo: that last response in this thread: Well done, sir. Excellent explanation of about 40 years worth of history and sales trends.
I’d hate to be across the desk from you when negotiating a car sale, though. You’d be hard to argue against!
It’s all about perception. The foreign (Asian) carmakers still have the perceived standard of quality, real or imagined. Yes, it will take many years to undo this if the US carmakers are really that good.
Will transaction prices rise for the Japanese cars in this list due to potential future shortages of cars and parts?
I can see the Fusion coming out of this well.
maybe for the Prius because of the double whammy of rising gas prices and production shortages. But less so for something like the Accord which is made in Ohio and should have roughly as many Japanese parts as anybody else.
My mother is looking to replace her aging (but still going strong) Saturn Coupe, highest on the list: the Altima Coupe. Honda sells an Accord Coupe but Toyota, Ford and the others offer nothing similar. Its either 4 door sedans or pure sports cars once you drop down to only 2 doors. If Hyundai offered the Genesis Coupe in hatchback form my mother would have bought one… she loved the car, but hated the tiny trunk. I realize the midsize coupe market is just a small sub-segment of the midsized sedan market, but its an area with almost no choices.
Sonata coupe is supposed to show up in a year or so.
There’s also the Veloster – but that’s a 3-door (or 4-door depending on how you look at it).
The Veloster might be too small, however it does appear to be the nearest thing to my mother’s current Saturn Coupe. She wants a slightly larger car for long trips but doesn’t need a 4 door and prefers a hatchback configuration for ease of loading. The Sonata Coupe sounds like winner provided the trunk is large enough, that’s the problem with current Genesis Coupe.
While the Veloster is 166.1 inches in length compared to the 182.3 inches for the GenCoupe, the Veloster has 105.3 total cubic feet of interior space compared to the 98.8 total cf. for the GC.
Also, Hyundai just announced the turbo variant of the Veloster putting out 208HP.
I don’t know what to do. I am looking at an 11 Accord SE ( leather seats, nice wheels ) which can be had for just under 20,000. A beautiful car. Or, should I wait for the new 12 Camry. I’m sure the Camry will cost more. A few days ago, I almost pulled the trigger on the Accord. But, my kids told me to wait for the Camry, so I am, for now. They said to “Wait for the Cam”. ( Cam is teenager lingo for Camry ). Honda dealer tells me the Accord price may be going up very soon if Honda pulls dealer incentives because of a car shortage. Don’t know if that is the truth.
JJ99….Didn’t you say at one time, you were looking at a Tahoe?
How about a new Fusion?
BTW – I can’t picture my teenager getting even ~slightly~ excited by the prospect of a new Camry. To each their own I guess…
Wait for the Av.
No Impala?
I think Enterprise and Hertz buy them all.
I think Prius sales are responding to the increasing-almost-every-single-day price of gasoline more than to the disaster in Japan.
Nobody else is surprised that that the Chrysler / Dodge twins outsold the Mazda6 by a wide margin?