Disgraceful so-called “pay driving” has been a part of racing since the very beginning. Whether it’s ABBA drummer “Slim” Borgudd’s Formula 1 career, “Malcolm In The Middle” star Frankie Muniz backmarking Formula Atlantic, or even a lame-ass church guitarist driving in Grand-Am, there’s no getting around the fact that the vast majority of people on most racing grids wrote a check to be there.
Ford has a better idea. Instead of letting dentists, attorneys, trust-fund kids, and other no-talent morons pay them to drive their rally cars, they’ve decided to tarnish the already less-than-stellar reputation of rally “racing” by finding the biggest douchebags in the universe and paying them to drive. First it was Tanner Foust, the guy who really, really doesn’t want you to know he’s almost thirty-eight years old. Then it was Ken Block, a fellow best known for having shoes made overseas in conditions that are, ahem, possibly quite terrifying. Where do you go from there?
That’s right! You hire an extreme motorcycle stunter who can’t spell “militia” correctly!
“One thing I am used to is riding dirt bikes,” Deegan said. “I grew up doing it ever since I was eight years old and I feel comfortable there. I went out and won a lot of medals and (then) won at supercross.”
“However there comes a time in your life where you’re like ‘have I done it all, or do I want to take on the next chapter?’ and I saw four-wheels as the next chapter. When the opportunity came through Rockstar and Ford to race rally car at X Games , I was like ‘It sounds pretty cool and I am going to go for it.’ For an athlete who comes from the top of the game to start at the bottom again, it isn’t easy. You have to kill your ego and your confidence is back to where you have to start over and try to learn this as fast as possible. I feel like my technique from dirt bikes and learning how to be the best at a sport has carried over.”
Somebody explain to Deegan that a full factory ride from a major auto manufacturer isn’t “starting at the bottom”, okay? The implications from Ford’s rally strategy are fairly interesting from a business perspective, however; by hiring drivers who are well-known in other fields and turning them into rallyists, the company is implicitly acknowledging that the best publicity to be had from their motorsports ventures has nothing to do with actually winning in those ventures. What if Ford had followed the same strategy for their GT40 program at LeMans, long ago? We could have had Paul McCartney, Andy Warhol, and Ted Kennedy running 220mph down the Mulsanne Straight…
That Le Mans Strategy might have worked if they bought Steve McQueen.
Ford is just copying Subaru’s strategy, which I think was pretty successful. With so few manufacturers in the sport, if you can find someone with a modicum of talent you can put them in a fully supported car and do well, or at least draw crowds.
While bikes and four wheeled competition may be radically diffrent, they are a wee bit closer than LeMans, music, politics, and what ever the hell made Warhol famous.
And I have no idea where Tanner Foust came from, but he appears to have some driving talent, at least enough to show the tail lamps to an over the hill Indy racer.
Seriously, between Jalopnik, David E. Davis, Burgess, “non-driver” Dan Neil, the cops, celeb racing, Tanner Foust (OMG HE’S 38!!!), Ken Block and now Brian Deegan, is there anything or anyone else you won’t whine about? For an alleged driver with a superiority complex, you sure are turning into a gossip columnist. Man up, Nancy.
I agree. I like Deegan. He seems like a decent guy who loves to do crazy shit on a dirt bike. Maybe his remark about “starting at the bottom” was off the mark, but that’s just nitpicking.
I LOL’d. Jack needs to get back to writing about cars and women.
Tanner looks pretty good for his age, had no idea.
I’m just getting started. Next week I’m doing an piece on my local Cat Fanciers’ show entitled
First Prize Winner “Mr. Paws” Is Far From Purr-fect
If you want some better content, give me your wife’s phone number and I’ll try to obscure the resulting details in a “fiction” piece.
the Mulsanne does nothing for me
Maybe I’m a little slow but why is this such a big deal? Be above it.
Not to mention, you suggest that its laughable that ‘dentists, attorneys, trust-fund kids, and other no-talent morons pay’ to drive. However, you also don’t agree that someone with a branded name should be paid to drive. So who’s supposed to drive? Should we have Pell grants for inter city kids to drive Rally? ;o)
It’s not formula 1 or NASCAR.
Just sayin’.
This is very far from being a big deal. Nobody cares about rally.
What makes it interesting is precisely what I noted above: that the concept of <i>reverse pay driving</i> has now come into play. Instead of people paying for the opportunity to drive at a level they can’t reach through talent alone, people are now being paid to drive above their level because they are celebrities.
C’est tout.
Jack,
What you say about getting rides above their racing level would probably apply to a lot of racing families. Would Kerry Earnhardt have gotten the rides he’s gotten if his last name was Jones? Michael Waltrip”s won the Daytona 500 and I kind of like him as a fan because he doesn’t take himself too seriously while simultaneously doing a pretty good job at selling his celebrity. At at an IndyCar press conference I mentioned to Robin Miller about how short all the drivers were and that Waltrip was the only tall racer I could think about. Miller, who has followed racing a lot closer than I have replied simply, “Michael Waltrip is no race car driver”.
I don’t disagree in general, though I suspect Sebastien Loeb might have done something in Formula 1 had he tried and/or succeeded in a jump earlier in his career.
“You have to kill your ego and your confidence is back to where you have to start over and try to learn this as fast as possible.”
Good for Deegan! Sounds like he has the proper perspective to transition from motocross and do well at rallying.
and Ted Kennedy running 220mph down the Mulsanne Straight…
Are there any bridges on the LeMans circuit?
+1. Hearty lol.
Rally drivers are without a doubt the BEST drivers on the planet, they run circles round NASCRASH, IRL, F1, Grand Am… you name it. However rally is not popular here in the US, guess everyone figures only trucks can drive off road so its hard to gauge the talent of anyone they give a ride to. Sadly Ken Block has been terrible in the WRC, but his “stunt” driving is impressive.
“Rally drivers are without a doubt the BEST drivers on the planet, they run circles round NASCRASH, IRL, F1, Grand Am… you name it. ”
I don’t know any credentialed racer or rally driver who would claim this with a straight face. If that were true, rally drivers would jump into other racing sports and make more money easily. This never happens. The reality is that rally tends to pick up older drivers, drivers who couldn’t make the big shows, and specialists who never did anything else.
The most skilled drivers, in a pure technical sense, are SCCA National Stock-class autocrossers. Nobody else has even close to the same kind of car placement skills. The very best of them can consistently place their cars within one inch of the perfect line on an impromptu course. It’s not uncommon for first and second place in a 100-car group to be separated by under one-tenth of a second. And they occasionally *do* go on to have tremendous success in other racing disciplines.
Specialization is a modern racing plague. Denise McCluggage raced in rally and in sports cars. I just found out that Graham Hill raced at Rockingham in a Holman-Moody Ford. Mario, Gurney and Foyt all raced in a number of different kinds of cars. So did Sterling Moss and Parnelli Jones.
Back then the money wasn’t as big and drivers took whatever rides they could.
I’m the guy that thinks a good Marquis of Queensbury trained boxer would do okay against someone trained in karate, krav maga or any other kind of combat training. The key is training and being able to take a punch. My guess is that top level drivers in any racing series could probably do well in other kinds of cars.
Mark Donohue, RIP, was my favorite multi-discipline racing driver. Could hold his own with the engineers, set up just about any car, handle any course or series. They just don’t make ’em like that any more. Of course, different era, rules, money.
There is a certain irony in saying that professional rally drivers would be raking it in driving NASCAR Camrys or Ferrari F1-50s if they could and then pronouncing that the best drivers are weekend hobbyists spending their own money to race the clock in front of other weekend hobbyists.
Personally, I would rather be paid to run in a rally than most other venues. Of course I wouldn’t turn down an offer on any type of racing that includes more than a few left hand turns, though WoO would be fun.
You mean specialists like Kimi Raikkonen and Robert Kubica, right?
Or Sebastian Loeb or Stephane Sarrazin. Heck, didn’t Henri Toivonen drive a Delta S4 around a track fast enough to qualify sixth for the grand prix that eventually took place there?
A number of successful car racers started out racing on two wheels, including John Surtees and Damon Hill. Surtees continued to race bikes even after he had a F1 ride.
Like Jack said, from a marketing perspective, starting out with a known name that already has a fan base isn’t stupid.
But really is this much different from all the 2nd and 3rd generation racers who get a chance because of family connections? Hill, Andretti, Unser, Petty and the Earnhardts come to mind. For the matter, how much different is it from rent-a-rides in F1 or Paul Menard’s family’s business sponsoring his career?
I have a friend who teaches guitar that’s very skeptical of the notion of talent. He’s convinced that playing well is mostly technique and practice, not inherent talent. I disagree with him but he has a point. Jack teaches performance driving. Racing is a skill that can be learned. Take an average person, give him or her that training, and put them in a factory ride and I’d bet they’d do pretty well.
Mark Donohue had some serious chops as a driver but he was also the guy who coined the phrase “an unfair advantage”. Even with his talent, he wanted the best equipment, the fastest car.
Frankly I do not see what problem or controversy the article is trying to address here. Spectacularly pointless.
If the Indy 500 grid twenty years from now is composed of the cast from “Jersey Shore” and fifteen instant Web celebrities, you can at least say you saw the beginnings of it here.
I was hoping that someone would engage in a nuanced discussion about whether it’s better to have a winning racer or a famous one, and about publicity as an absolute value instead of a targeted vector, but sometimes I forget that TTAC readers tend to have no opinion about competitive motorsports.
If Ford takes the checkered flag, and nobody is there to see it, is it still a win?
And if car enthusiast TTAC readers are apathetic about racing, what’s that say about the state of motorsports popularity nationwide?
It would seem that Ford, understanding that even NASCAR viewership and attendance is waning and open wheeled racing in the US has reached irrelevancy, has decided to fill the stands first, win second. By putting stars in reasonbly priced racecars, Ford is hoping to at least start the beginnings of a following.
Start with the personalities as the hook. Then, hopefully hook the curious and the casual interest fan on the sport. Yes, it makes racing akin to professional wrestling (cuz it’s entertainment first, with no real actual wrestling or competition taking place at all).
Will this strategy work? Is it fair to racing drivers who toil anonymously to hone their craft? Can this lead to actual competitive racing by talented drivers?
Dunno on the first, no on the second, doubt it on the last.
I see, thanks.
IMO, Indy car has been chock full of minimally talented Brazillian pay drivers who are only there so their daddies can launder money while getting it out of the country for decades. CART owners might as well go with celebrities, as they don’t have talent or an audience today.
Years ago when Sammy Swindell was running very well he complained on ESPN that he didn’t get much coverage. The reply was that he was so far out in front that it wasn’t exciting enough to watch so they went to where the battles were. I think having someone who gets “air time” right now is as important as a consistant podium finish when it comes to the bottom line, especailly when there isn’t much coverage other than the highlights (ALMS). It can also be good for the series in general to get viewers if you have a non-standard personality. It is probably all coincidence that when Boris Said was outspoken against and subsequently booted from Trans-Am they tanked for a while. Heck, I would even watch NHRA if there is a chance they would interview John Force because those used to be…interesting. That being said, if I owned a team I would want someone who could get lot’s of air time and still be on the podium every event regardless of how famous they are/were.
There are some hollywood personalities I wouldn’t mind seeing going all out in some F1 cars from the 30s at Le Mans or Nurburgring.
‘but sometimes I forget that TTAC readers tend to have no opinion about competitive motorsports.’
I would say that’s closer to the point. At least for myself. I love motorsports. However, I also know there’s so much that goes on behind the scenes that I don’t know about. For instance, I know that many driver’s are selected based on their marketability as much as their talent level. After all, sponsors are the name of the game. Which kinda brings everything back to where this article started. Thoughts?
Mr. Deegan does try to sell a “bad boy” image with his Metal Mulisha Group. I used to dislike him as well; he is, however, a legitimate dirt-bike rider. He is not some “pretty boy” and is a celebrity due partly to his act but also because of his skill. He has also competed in the X-games so I don’t see the problem with him transitioning to rally for the X-games. Another thing I would like to say is that “rally-racing” in the X-games seems slightly different from other forms of rallying due to its tighter course. I would say that X-games rallying is like the supercross of rallying while other forms are more like motocross.
Racing is first and foremost a marketing expense for the manufacturers. The name of the game in marketing now is “cross-platform”.
Racing in the old days, from the point of view of the manufacturers, was just like the straightforward advertising of that time; all they needed from a driver was someone to disappear behind the steering wheel and make the car look better than everyone else’s by winning races.
Replacing “real” drivers with marketable paid spokesmen is no different from the shift in marketing styles elsewhere. A typical Honda advertisement from 1980 was the car in profile against a white background and a wall of declarative text extolling the virtues of the Compound Vortex Combustion Chamber. Nowadays, Honda pays rock bands (or at least their agents and labels) to “design” graphics for Civics which they use as a sweepstakes prize.
Rally racing is ripe for it, because it looks like BMX with cars on TV, it’s far cheaper to operate than a ‘tier 1’ effort like NASCAR, the cars themselves are silhouettes of the cars that Ford wants to market to young buyers, and crucially, outside of the most diehard rally fans, no one seems to pay attention to who wins anyway. You can gain far more casual rally fans with a high-definition youtube video than a championship win.
So it could be summarized into a lifestyle kind of thing?
As I read from some other news source… “people don’t want to buy a car, they want to lifestyle” or something along those lines.
Exactly, and Ford wants people whose lifestyle includes an interest in freestyle motocross to work the Fiesta into that lifestyle.
As an auto racing fan, I’m always torn about stunts like this. On one hand, having better talented drivers compete is what makes racing better. On the other hand, it’s much more fun to be an auto racing fan when other people are auto racing fans as well.
Bringing in ‘celebrities’ just for the sake of celebrities in races isn’t something I really want to see. I don’t even think it’s good when they try to make celebrities out of particular drivers with a hook, whether that’s Danica Patrick in NASCAR (where she’s just like she is in IndyCar – mid-pack and whiny) or Travis Pastrana in whatever he’s wrecking this week (seriously, does he ever actually *finish* a race?). And while those are semi-serious examples, more of the celebrities are things that just don’t work out.
I guess I can’t really fault a team or owner who needs to bring in the sponsorship dollars putting a big name with unproven chops in a car. It can certainly work temporarily, but it can’t work long term if there’s no success, unless that celebrity is continuing to create buzz (non-racing) for people to keep watching. Otherwise, people aren’t going to tune in to see their guy run around mid-pack.
There are some celebrities that genuinely want to make a go of it in racing, and many times they start or even stay in classes where they realistically have a shot at competing: Patrick Dempsey comes to mind, as well as Paul Newman, who seemed to limit his driving to what he was competitive in, while still participating in higher series as an owner. Then there are some guys who get in over their heads, and end up paying a price for it, like Jason Priestly. I don’t want folks to get hurt, so I just keep hoping that people understand their limits, and don’t take rides that they can’t handle, because they can endanger not just themselves, but the rest of the competitors.
Can I have a clarification here?
Jack, are you talking about “RallyCross” which is that silliness of short hilly dirt tracks built inside stadiums, or are you talking about “Rally” As in the World Rally Championship – “WRC”. I.e. driving cars against the clock down paths in the woods over mountains at warp speed with a co-driver telling you which way to turn?
I know nothing about how much talent it takes to do the stadium stupidity, but WRC takes both near-infinite quantities of talent, and brass balls the size of a small moon! Those panzy formula 1 guys complain if the track is too bumpy, while the WRC guys run a very real risk of impacting a nice big Oak tree at 160mph…. Or going off a cliff if thier co-driver gets lost in his notes.
“Those panzy formula 1 guys complain if the track is too bumpy, while the WRC guys run a very real risk of impacting a nice big Oak tree at 160mph”
I think you’re teasing me, right?
Formula One cars operate within a 5-g performance envelope. A bumpy track, experienced at the cornering and braking levels of which F1 cars are capable, can temporarily blind a driver, render him unconscious, or cause him to suffer a concussion.
The only way a WRC car will hit a tree at 160mph is if it’s dropped from an airplane. The maximum speed of a WRC car using the gearing and tires seen in non-tarmac rallies is about 110mph. On a tarmac rally this could go as high as 130 – maybe. WRC is a 40-90mph event for the most part. Not that I’m signing up to run into a tree at 90mph, mind you. Still not fun, but let’s frame this in reality.
Loaded WRC cars (with driver and passenger) have about 300hp to push 3100lbs. (1200kg empty car plus occupants and fuel, with a minimum of 1350kg loaded). That’s the same power-to-weight ratio as an LS1 C4 Vette with a driver, although the area under the power curve is greater with a WRC car and the traction is much better.
The difference between hitting a tree at 130mph and 160mph is academic. Either way the most talented mortuary cosmetition in the world will not be able to reassemble you such that your own Mother can tell if you are face up or face down in the coffin.
Nobody takes an LS1 Corvette down a forest path at warp speed….
The Formula 1 boys get a nice smooth track, with nice smooth runoff areas and nice soft Armco to run into. Some street circuits are not so good, but they also are a LOT slower. On a surface that is pretty much the SAME on every lap. And that they get to actually practice on for multiple laps. And if the track is too fast, they stick some fake curves in to slow things down in the name of safety. Yes, it takes phenominal talent to be even a back-marker in that world, but it takes phenominal talent to run in WRC too. And big brass balls.
And then think back to the Groupe B days, when WRC cars DID have crazy HP. And drivers died left and right.
And you still did not answer my original question.
And that is where the crux of the matter lays. Stuff in F1 happens soooo much faster, and requires so much quicker reactions, that gravel course rallying is almost like running the world in slow motion with a pillowtop in comparison.
I once had the pleasure of riding shotgun with two very accomplished F1 drivers on a mock rally course, where an almost equally accomplished WRC driver was also present. After one or two corners of calibrating to the cars, the F1 guys both could have fooled me wrt what discipline they were paid to compete in. Noone timed anything, so they may well have been a tick slower than the pro rally driver, but the difference was very, very far from night and day. Something I seriously doubt would be the case by 5g corner number three for Mr. WRC.
Moral of the story is, the guys who get the big bucks do so for a reason. They’re darned near just as freaky and extraordinary as 7 foot basketball players.
I don’t know why you think WRC is so deadly. The last driver fatality in WRC was 1989. There have been four co-driver fatalities in the twenty-two years since then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_World_Rally_Championship_accidents
I just want to put that in perspective. Since 2007 I have been involved in two races where there were fatal accidents — NASA Mid-O June 2007 and Altamont LeMons 2008, which may have been due to a medical condition.. There have been several club racing fatalities in the US since 2005. There was a NASA instructor fatality in 2010.
There are no 130mph accidents in WRC. The cars aren’t going that fast anywhere near trees. If you want to see one, we have them right here in Ohio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiZ9Wc1yh8s
FYI, at that point at the track my Plymouth Neon is doing 125.
Not enough blood and danger for you? Here’s another Mid-Ohio accident where the car is thrown a hundred feet through the air, 25 feet off the ground, and through the safety fence into the camping area:
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f223/crash-mid-ohio-scca-t2-nissan-61500/
I don’t mean to contradict what you hear during X-Games announcing, but just plain ol’ regular club racing, like my friends and I do all time, is considerably more dangerous than WRC. The reason is simple: we’re racing, not doing time trials. When other cars are involved, the risk goes through the roof.
As far as Group B goes, so what? They don’t do it anymore. That would be like me arguing that F1 is more dangerous because a Benz went into the spectator stands in 1955.
traditional European Rallycross is dirt and pavement, with minimal jumps. FIA sanctions the biggest european series currently : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_European_Championships_for_Rallycross_Drivers
X-games Rallycross is what you’ve seen in the X-games (duh) and is very much like supercross but with cars (tho my knowledge of mot-x events is limited). The new Global Rallycross Championship – http://www.global-rallycross.com/ – is a new US-based series which uses the X-games formula. this is where Foust is running and where Deegan will run when his schedule allows.
WRC (and SCCA Pro Rally, or whatever they’re calling it these days) is dirt, snow, tarmac (or all three on the Monte) and has jumps not so often, with spectacular exceptions like Rally Finland.
drivers at the top level of any motorsport are very skilled. and just like baseball or football or hockey or basketball players, the top level of competition is too specialized to allow easy cross-competition. while all forms of motorsport involve driving, think of the different disciplines as being different positions on a basketball or soccer team – you wouldn’t put the shooting guard under the basket to post up a center, nor would you send the goalie upfield to attack the goal. now imagine that instead of a team of players, you had a whole sport filled with point guards. or goalies. or power forwards. they’re all great at what they do, but would have to significantly adapt to switch sports.
specific to rallying, the skillset required to operate an WRC car at it’s maximum capacity is extremely rare and the talent pool is _very_ shallow currently – due to the lack of top-level manufacturer involvement (effectively 4 cars currently, 2x Ford, 2x Citroen, 2x Mini part-time this year, full next, probably 2x VW starting in 2013) and relative lack of funding, it’s more lucrative to go into other forms of motorsport. there are likely lots of people with the potential to develop into top-tier drivers, but there are not many of them worthy of a top factory ride currently. I’m not making this up either, I’ve had the conversation with someone who used to run a WRC team and who has previous F1 experience.
Kimi went rallying because he was sick of the politics in F1 and Ferrari paid him ~$30M to leave so Alonso could drive for them. he’s found the WRC to be amusing enough apparently (and he’s been quick enough when he hasn’t been killing cars) and apparently has decided that NASCAR will also be amusing to him. JP Montoya wasn’t slow by anyone’s estimation in F1, yet he has not dominated in NASCAR. maybe driving ancient boats with carbs and squishy tires and (effectively) solid suspensions isn’t as easy as the fat guys with silly accents make it look.
and to bring it back round to the Deegan situation, he’s going to run some Rallycross events when he’s not running in the Lucas Oil offroad series. which he won the championship in in 2009 (disclaimer – I know nothing about this series, how many people are in it, etc, etc) so he’s not getting paid by Ford to go racing full time in the WRC nor Rally America nor Rallycross. I’m not a washed-up BMX racer, so I have perhaps more respect for the skill (insanity ?) it takes to fling oneself around on a motorcycle several stories in the air, but Deegan (and Pastrana – is he also a talentless hack in Jack’s eyes ?) seems to have not inconsiderable skill in his chosen area, we will see whether it translates to these other areas. it seems to have done so in the Lucas Oil series.
Hey Jack, didn’t you transition from 2 wheels to 4 yourself? At least Deegan’s 2 wheeler had a motor!
Celebrity drivers bringing attention to the sport is a good thing. Talent will show. If Snooki were to get into a tight point battle with Sebastian Loeb, then she deserves to be driving rally. On the other hand, if the celebrity driver does poorly, it makes the real drivers look better, because they just beat so-an-so famous person, and there were more poeple watching when they did it. Of course we’re not even talking celebrity drivers so much as transitioning from one motorsport to another.
Celebrity drivers are a mixed blessing for driving as a sport. Similar to what Dancing With the Stars is to dance as a sport (or art form). They both draw a bigger audience, but in the process focuses that audience on very different facets of the experience than was historically the case.
By “promoting” celebrities to star status in a discipline they are not particularly talented at, the purity of the discipline will inevitably be affected. Once “a bigger audience” becomes the only metric of success, it won’t be long before event rules are altered so that the famous “protagonists” with the big fan bases get to deliver what the fans come to see. To use your example, the competition will almost inevitably be rigged so that Snookie becomes competitive with Loeb, otherwise, what would be the point of having Snookie there i the first place?
On the other hand, there are those who sort of feel motor sports kind of died once it’s participants stopped dieing at events regularly, anyway; so perhaps there isn’t all that much left to salvage regardless.
Baruth needs to start a minivan racing series. He constantly fantasizes about street racing them against other “journalists” whilst on the job.
Also, Deegan is a pretty decent chap. I’ve met him at a few rally races and he was a pretty tidy driver.
Isn’t “finding the biggest douchebags in the universe and paying them” the whole point of the X-games anyways? Nothing there is sport, its sports-entertainment. Guys with bad haircuts and tattoo sleeves preening for the camera, kind of like the NBA except without the athleticism. In fact the only bad thing I can think of about Tanner Faust is that he touts his X-games drifting ‘championships’ as if they actually mean anything.