TTAC reader civicguy writes:
My wife and I currently own an 04 Honda Civic EX (mine) sedan and an 03 Honda CR-V LX (hers). We have two Golden Retrievers who travel with us a lot to visit family, etc and we are expecting our first child this March and probably another child while we are driving this new car. This means we are running out of space and need something big, compared to the CR-V at least.
I will be done paying off my Civic this summer, the CR-V has been paid off for a year. We want to get ourselves on a 4-1-5 year plan meaning that we want to sell her CR-V, buy something nice for her, finance it for 4 years, have 1 year of saving that payment for a down payment and then selling the Civic, financing for 4, saving for 1, and we keep trading who we buy for every 5 years. This means we will only have one car payment at a time while also getting rid of that nasty depreciation issue if we ever buy new with saving the 1 year of payments. However, it also means we will need to keep these cars for 10 years at time (which is hard for me who has had 6 cars in the past 9 years…my teenage years were dumb like that).This means the car we are replacing the CR-V with must hold up well without many major issues for that 10 year span.I know it can happen, both our families are Honda families going back awhile. Her list of requirements are:
~Must be SUV (I’m trying to convince her of the convince of a minivan but she says we are too young (mid-20’s) for that)
~Good MPG, relatively speaking of course for a vehicle this size.
~Major issue free for 10 years, or as much so as possible.
~No more than 2 years old, maybe new if the deal is good enough.
~Trying to keep in the 25K range, give or take 5K.
~Enough room in the second row for 2 car seats.
~Enough room behind the second row for 2 dog crates and as much luggage as possible.Contenders so far:
~Honda Pilot
~Nissan Pathfinder (true that it needs to take premium gas?)
~Toyota Highlander
~Hyundai Veracruz (big enough? Don’t know much about them)
~Mazda CX-9
~Ford Explorer
~Honda Odyssey (2011 only – I’m trying to sneak this in…)Am I missing any? I’m not again domestics necessarily just usually always had Japanese cars in my past with good results. Also, what should I really be looking for in this mid-size SUV segment? Should I try to stick with used or can new be worth it? Never bought a car new before so kind of scared of that but since we plan on keeping it so long does it matter? Great thanks from me, my wife, my dogs and my unborn child :)
Sajeev Answers:
Yes, the Pathfinder takes premium gas. But since its not turbocharged and you never mentioned towing, odds are you can run regular and not lose much fuel economy (no leadfooting!) and any durability. I’ll let Steve discuss your 4-1-5 year plan, as I never look at vehicle purchases with such attention to a financial scheme. In my experiences, people fall out of love with a vehicle, decide something is more interesting, get disillusioned by 1-3 months of “excessive repairs” or–back when credit flowed like a soda fountain–a sweetheart finance/lease deal showed up to shift your current plan. So, as per my plan, I stick with product.
Advice: test drive them all, with dog crates and children in tow. More to the point, if one doesn’t have a perfectly flat load floor for the doggies, run away. Long trips with uncomfortable pets is no fun for anyone. In general, used cars can work if you buy vehicles with low-ish resale (no Hondas) and avoid 1-2 year old creampuffs with CPO warranties. Given your need to drive a vehicle for 10 years, owning a 13+ year old whip might frighten, but you’ll get no sympathy from my mostly reliable, 16-year-old Lincoln driving self. But I digress…
The Veracruz is a good idea, even if the one I sampled had toxic new car smell. It has the features, size and warranty to work with you. I think the best product for your needs are the large, efficient and somewhat fun to drive GM Lambda Crossovers. They are all good enough, so cross shop on price: I suspect a used Saturn Outlook is the “smartest” of the bunch.
Steve answers:
Here’s what will really happen.
In four years either you or your wife will get tired of the ‘new’ vehicle. You will spend one year mulling around about it. Then continue on the cycle of wealth destruction that comes with financing new cars instead of ‘owning’ what you have. Your plan doesn’t work. But Honda will certainly appreciate your patronage.
Look, you are not running out of space. You are expecting a baby. That’s all you have to deal with. Keep both cars. Use the CR-V when it’s required to transport the shit smelling mongrels (just kidding, we have dogs) , and the Civic for errands and commuting.
You want to be financially responsible to your family? Buy nothing. My wife had a 1997 Ford Escort that she used once our first kid was due. Bought it for $5000 back in 1999 and sold it for $3000 in 2003. 60,000 miles. 30 mpg. A good safety record, and no regrets. The Civic will be even safer. The CR-V is pretty much the optimal SUV-lite mommy mobile. You already have what you need. It’s not the answer you want but it’s the truth.
One more thing: your financial idea is just another excuse to spend money. That’s not an insult. If you really want to save money for the long haul, do exactly that, so that next time you can buy ‘the car’ with cash.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
I agree with the CR-V being a great fit. My fiancee and I have a family of three dogs. Her car is a 2000 CR-V and she loves it. It’s perfect for what she does and what we need. I recommend a Mazda5, too, as it’s a minivan that’s not as uncool as real minivans and is an awesome drive.
I agree! Sajeeve and Steve, how could you miss the Mazda5?!? It is small, fun, and can be had with luxury amenities. Plus, although not quite as solid as the CR-V, it is still quite reliable.
On other topics, for Sajeeve particularly, weren’t the first few years of the Lambda crossovers not particularly reliable? I think they are better now, but the Outlook was built in that timeline, and I remember them having quite a lot of issues.
Overall though…the comments and Steve are right. The CR-V was a tempting used buy, because it is the most reliable of model of what is arguably the most reliable brand. It is huge inside, with useful space, solid, and relatively efficient (especially in relation to the listed models). Stick with it, as owning used Honda’s forever is really the only reason to buy a Honda.
I agree with Steve. The CRV is a great vehicle and will still provide you room with 2 kids (with carseats) and 2 dogs. Now, you’ll lose cargo room with the dogs when you go on a trip…get a rooftop carrier. We have 2 kids (4 years old, 2 months old) and a boxer. Our primary family vehicle is a boxer too…the Outback gets a little tight between the carseats, stroller, luggage, and dog. But, it works and we don’t take such trips too often. I’ve considered getting a rooftop carrier, just to have some more wiggle room. The stuff you have to tote along with the kiddos only last 4 years, after 4 the amount of stuff is drastically reduced: no stroller, booster seat, no pack-n-play, etc…
Our other car is an older Acura TL. Same interior room, much less cargo room. Might replace it with a used Legacy or the new Impreza (both similiar sized). But, definitely not in a hurry for a car note since both titles are residing at home and not with a financial institution.
It’s a common fallacy that you need a large vehicle when you start to have kiddos. And quite honestly, as someone who is only a few years older…you’ll start looking at finances and car notes much differently when you have kids, starting with the hospital bills (insurance covered 80% for us, still cost me about $3k).
I too have an 05 outback as the family car with 1 kid + dog
My biggest complaints is the location of the latch system make it impossible to fit 2 people in the back with the car seat. should 1 car seat turn 2 to 2 then the 5th middle seat would be a no go zone
It also has an expensive drinking habit Premium gas (although i use mid grade) and 17mpg around town! luckily my wife who’s daily drive it is does < 6000 miles per year
Yeah, the middle seat is for storing the diaper bag or stuffed animal…we always had the 1 carseat on the outboard, I know it’s suggested against it. The 07+ are a little stronger in side impact crashes and rollovers than the 05-06.
You must have the 3.0R or 2.5XT. We just have a 2007 2.5i but with a manual. Around town, it gets 22mpg…plenty fine for me. The Acura drinks gas like a modern large crossover, about 18mpg around town (on premium as well).
Quite honestly, besides getting a little tight on room at times, it’s the perfect vehicle for us since we live in Idaho and do like to use non-paved roads quite frequently.
Yay! Outback crowd. I have an 05 3.0R. One difference: I’m a single male.
That’s a BIG difference!
I wouldn’t mind the 3.0R sometimes, especially on the interstate. Just let the torque converter unlock to pass instead of shifting down a gear (or two). And I believe their 50/50 split with a locking rear like the 2.5i MT models.
3.0 LL Bean – figured I could drive a long way at 17/22 mpg for the cost of a timing belt change (3.0 is chain driven)
Yeah, I do a fair amount of highway, and I’m really picky about how a car drives on the highway. The 3.0R is very quiet and relaxed, and a capable passing vehicle as well. It won out over the prospect of saving a bit of money at the pumps. Plus the 3.0R has a better long term rep than most subie engines, especially the 2.5 turbo.
One Question? how frequently would you need to transport more than you, your wife & your 2 unborn children? i.e. do you need more than 4 seats?
If the answer is rarely, I’d suggest a roof box.
If the answers is semi frequently and over short distances look a something in the CRV size with the small 3rd row, Santa Fe, Outlander, Rav 4 etc
If the answer is frequently then one of the vehicles you said above.
If mpg is really important then consider the Ford C-max or Mazda 5
A good roof box and set of rails will run you about as much as one car payment, and put off the need for a new car for years.
Just my two cents, or rather my $250 when I did this about eight years back.
You want to be financially responsible to your family? Buy nothing …. your financial idea is just another excuse to spend money …. If you really want to save money for the long haul, do exactly that, so that next time you can buy ‘the car’ with cash.”
Words to live by. Whenever I hear talk like “buy something nice for her, finance it for 4 years, have 1 year of saving that payment for a down payment (on the next loan)” I think I’m listening to someone who will never have two dimes at the same time during his entire life.
It’s important to realize debt is a poverty trap: the interest payments drain away disposable income, so there is no money on hand with which to pay cash. Future purchases must then be bought with credit, and the cycle perpetuates itself.
You’re not too young to buy a minivan. The dealers will take your money, just like they have from my thirty-something wallet. Anything else you get will be a vehicle pretending very hard not to be a minivan. I agree with Steve about hanging on to the CR-V, but if not, try to get Mama to face reality. (And save some $.)
Fun experiment: drive a Highlander and a Sienna back to back. While you’re at it, compare storage. They come off the same assembly line, just like Odyssey/Pilot (another good comparo), so tell Mom she has to face it, she’s not fooling anyone.
Why on earth does a mid-20s cpl with only 1 child NEED a minivan?? They make you feel old, they make you feel uncool, and if his wife (not mama, shes still young) wouldnt be happy with one, why force her to grow old early? So they can cart more junk around with them?? They arent cheaper, they dont get better mileage, they just hold more people (which they dont need, even with 2 kids).
Sure, I know, its just image, but to someone that age, image is important! Even to us (I am 40, my wife is mid-30s), we had a minivan for less than a year, we both HATED it, and she flat out refused to drive it. And I am happy she did. When we need the space for road trips, we can rent a minivan. We rarely even bother.
Why do they NEED a minivan? They don’t – as I said, they should stick with the CUV. But if they are hell-bent on a change, let’s look at the positives for the minivan:
1) Safety.
2) Insurance cost.
3) Cargo room (assuming it’s actually needed, which is after all the whole premise of the purchase under consideration).
4) Cost of consumables – tires being the biggie.
5) Handling.
6) Performance.
7) Fuel economy (at equivalent performance point).
Up until $4 gas, purchase cost would have been a no brainer too, but it looks like that gap has narrowed as common sense starts to prevail in the market. So let’s call that a wash, and tick off the compelling advantages of an SUV:
1) They’re way cooler than minivans to some people;
2) Some are more off-road capable (although I don’t think this is part of the conversation at hand).
Conclusion: Have Mom read Baruth’s 2011 Grand Caravan review, and see what happens next.
You’re married with children. Who are you trying to look cool for? Geeze. Buy the minivan – or the mazda5 – just because of the sliding doors which are a godsend when trying to strap jr into his seat in a crowded parking lot.
Besides, as everyone knows you need a motorcycle to be cool :-)
I dont agree with your list of positives. There is not going to be any significant difference between a new larger crossover and a new minivan in any of those categories except cargo space. And my main arguement is with 2 kids and 2 dogs they dont NEED that much cargo space.
You are right though, she wants a crossover for the image, because they look cooler. My wife is the same way, she could care less about going off-road, she just doesnt want to be seen in a minivan, regardless of how expensive or fancy they are. And she wont give a cr@p about how Jack thinks it drives or how luxurious it is, its still dorky.
But we agree on the main point, they should just keep the CRV. But like I said below, I dont think they are going to listen to that advice. And if they buy something new, I still dont think they should buy a minivan.
I agree!
Why do people seem able to convince themselves that somehow 1 child needs all that space? Even two don’t need that space. My cousins upgraded from a TL to an MDX when they had their first child. At the time, the move seemed utterly ridiculous. They have since had use for it with towing, but otherwise…
My family got by, with 2 kids, a dog, and frequent long trips in a 93 Honda Accord station wagon. Certainly no larger inside than a CR-V. We towed with that fine.
I forgot about this experience: When we lived in the St. Louis area, we traveled to the Knoxville, TN World’s Fair in 1982. My wife, myself, two kids – one in a child seat back then, and grandma. 10 hour drive with all our gear. We drove my mom’s 1979 AMC Concord! We had plenty of room, too. Now if the law required two car seats, mom would’ve been somewhat cramped, but we made the trip just fine with several stops along the way to stretch and let the kids run. We traveled light, too, and just bought any extras we needed.
1) Base Highlander, new
2) Base CrV, new
If you need cheaper,
3) Base Rav4, new
4) Base Escape, new
Before considering the Explorer, make sure you read Motor Trend and Consumer Reports. Those publications do not consider the Explorer class competitive.
Yea I have to agree with everyone above, your vehicles are perfect now, and the CRV is big enough now. Go all out on a cool Thule rack system for all the active lifestyle toys you could ever want including a cargo box… forget the crates and get a dog barrier for the cargo area, and enjoy the good gas mileage and reliability of your Honda. Kids are just going to destroy whatever you buy anyway. Oh yea, get a nice set of seat covers too. The Civic is perfect now, enjoy it around town. SAVE YOUR MONEY for important things, like a track car.
However, I was in my mid-20s and married and I know how it is, and I am betting you are going to buy a new car regardless of what we say here. Your wife wants a new car. DONT GET HER A MINIVAN, she IS too young and so are you, she will resent you for it. Plus, the milage isnt that good anyway. The Pathfinder gets bad mileage, heck everything gets bad mileage in that size category. Stick with Hondas that you know and love and get a new Pilot. Its extremely roomy, looks pretty good and will basically last you forever, you might not even bother replacing it in 10 yrs, just keep it until they are old enough to not need to be carted around anymore.
You already have the best of both worlds. I was young once, and got tired of cars pretty fast, but I kept them out of financial necessity until the cost of replacement was cheaper than the cost of repair.
We own a 2002 CR-V – my wife drives it and loves it. it transports our dog admirably when necessary. We have a MX5 for a third vehicle and I drive a 2004 Impala as shown. We owe on the MX5, but not much and may pay it off just to get rid of the loan. All our other cars are long paid for.
You are a young family – these days in this extremely uncertain economy, save your money, be content with your current rides and buy a house if you don’t have one already. If you do, save your money anyway. Drive your vehicles ’til the wheels fall off! Save, save, save! These days, think thrifty, be thrifty! Put off “toy” purchases until the kids are grown. You’ll thank yourself in the long run, plus, your family is your true priority. If you feel the urge to spend some of the cash that’s burning a hole in your pocket, take a road trip or a vacation with your family on a regular basis – that’s what we did – doesn’t have to be fancy or expensive, but you get lots of time with your kids and they with you and you can’t put a price on that!
I agree, except for the safety issue. When cars get too old, they are so behind newer models in crash performance, you should avoid. You would never forgive yourself if your wife or kid(s) are hurt in an accident where an older vehicle could not deliver safety.
An ’03 CR-V is not a Fiero or Pinto or Corvair.
Sure there are risks in not traveling via armored car, there are also risks in a family leveraging all of it’s liquidity to become a fraction of a fraction of a percentage safer in a collision.
Too many purchasing decisions are based on fear. Do you want to finance redundant steel, or begin to finance junior’s college tuition?
These kinds of posts always make me crack up. Might as well get a Ford F-450 if you’re so worried about our “unsafe” highways. The United States has one of the lowest per-mile death rates in the developed world.
The CR-V is certainly big enough until kid No. 2 comes along, and with the tsunami causing shortages and driving up prices, now is a lousy time to buy. See how it goes with one kid before you start shopping.
Speaking of the Tsunami…I just got one of my tacky, “we need used Hondas in good condition due to the shortage out of Japan” letters. It was unbelievable.
Frankly, I’m surprised it took them this long to use that angle.
As far as your finance plan goes…don’t buy anything now. The CR-V should get you by with one kid and two dogs at least until you eventually have the second child. Maybe a roof rack carrier for longer trips. In the meantime…save up since both cars will soon be paid off. Put at least what you would be paying for a car payment into savings…by the time you have the 2nd kid, if you deem you need a larger vehicle, you could possible have the amount of cash to pay for it outright.
This comes from a 31 year old dad of twins and an Australian Shepherd who basically goes everywhere with us…with double the baby gear required, we jumped right to minivan.
If you still “NEED” to get something new…I would look at the GM Lambda’s as well.
which is hard for me who has had 6 cars in the past 9 years…my teenage years were dumb like that
I can relate…A LOT. I’m on number 7 and I’m 22, keep in mind that the first 3 were cash only. None of my cars were smashed or otherwise disabled (at least while I had them as primary vehicles). I had an Aerostar with AWD that got 10 mpg and ditched it for an Escort, which puked its transmission when lent to my brother. After the Escort I had a LeSabre which was then gotten rid of when I graduated and was given the loan for a 95 Accord EX (this is the one I should have kept). From that I went to an 03 Accord Coupe LX which got traded for a Grand Prix. The Grand Prix was entirely too thirsty considering it was a base model with stock 3800 and I didn’t hot rod it (was getting 14-15 – it drove well enough, but I think something might have been wrong to return mileage that low and I ditched it because of the crummy mileage). Now I have a 2011 Forte LX, which is the perfect size for me and is plenty powerful for me.
I’m sure people will tell me that I’m an idiot for my vehicular purchases, but I’m trying to learn and find the car that is the right fit. It’s an expensive lesson and I’m hoping I won’t be lectured too much by the B&B because I’m learning more now than I ever could from a financial advisor.
I’ve tried making wise financial decisions, but have had few examples and am struggling to learn. For the most part I do pretty well, but all this has taught me is that when the bug to buy a car bites I have to kill it with fire. I inherited the boredum gene from my mom and haven’t quite nipped it in the bud.
Long story short, don’t feel bad about your younger years. Our youths, the one in which I am still living, are meant for us to be dumb, but not so dumb that we wind up in a pine box. After all nobody learns anything from having the right answers all the time.
“…even if the one I sampled had toxic new car smell…”
To be fair all new-car smell is toxic. ;)
Gotta go with Steve and Zackman on this. For all the reasons they cite, and one more.
If you are really going to do what you say, that is to keep this family hauler until the oldest kid is 10, then nothing on your list is big enough. I am serious. You will be carpooling, your kids will have friends, you will want to go somewhere as a family with grandma and grandpa and their luggage – you get the idea. Or maybe you will (gasp!) go beyond 2 kids.
So, keep the CR-V. At some point (you will know when) it will become too small. Then you and your wife will have a better idea of what you will need. Which is a minivan. And you will be older then, so it will be ok. And after hoisting one more kid into a 3rd row carseat because grandma can’t get back there, you won’t care that its not cool.
Except, gas will be much higher in 10 years from now, so smaller might be the ticket.
Two comments: First, can you put the Labs in the aforementioned roof box? Secondly, what’s going to happen to your carefully constructed financial plan when gas shoots up to $6 or $8 and no one wants anything under 40 mpg and you’re chafing at the bit to get something easier on fuel? Every suggestion on your list uses a LOT more fuel than your Civic. The most sensible thing you could do is to buy a fwd station wagon and put a roof box on it for the luggage on trips. You like Honda, why not get a Honda Accord Crosstour? Or an Outback, Mazda 5 or Matrix?
I don’t think that would be a good idea. But, it’s pretty funny to me.
The wagons you suggested are great, but why not just keep what you have longer. The CRV is pretty competitive with the older Outbacks, in fact we seriously considered one but the lack of a manual and full-time AWD swayed us to Subaru. I’ve always had Hondas, but the Subaru has some great engineering and packaging similiar to Hondas of old.
I agree with everyone else that your CR-V is more then enough for your projected needs in the next few years. Save the money, you’ll need it later!!
I was this guy two years ago (just one shit-smelling mongrel though). Wife and I had only owned imports, and we looked at all the contenders listed above. We bought a (used with 16K) Ford Taurus X and we love it. Other than rear brake pads last month, it has needed nothing but oil changes and tire rotations. It is safe (top scores in every category on the Volvo-developed platform), reasonably economical (we get 19mpg around town and 25 on trips to see nonnie), roomy and versatile (six seats that flip, flop, fold and slide in dozens of ways).
It is a little crude compared to the Higlander or Pilot. The V6 is somewhat coarse, and the dash plastic is Fisher Price grade. It is otherwise well assembled, reliable and durable. But, it really came down to value for the dollar. We got a loaded SEL for under $20K when equivalent Pilots and Highlanders were 4K to 5K more.
It is a somewhat obscure choice, since Ford made them only in ’08 and ’09 (and the Freestyle prior to that), but we have found it to be an exceptional family car. Even our august car reliability sensei, Michael Karesh, bought one.
Sorry to ask this, but how old are your dogs?
Otherwise, I recommend a Chevy Suburban or a Ford Expedition. As long as you have the means, they are the best for this kind of thing.
Hey guys, thanks for all the advice so far. Just wanted to comment on a couple of things:
~Space – Those of who who suggest keeping the CR-V or just buying a roof rack obvioulsy haven’t been on vacation with two dogs and a wife, let alone plus 1 kid. With the dogs literally taking over the entire back, we have to fit all our suitcases, food (my wife has dietary needs which require we bring much of our own food), dog food, etc in the back seat. If we had to fit a baby seat, let alone eventually 2, back there we just don’t have the room.
My wife is set on a new-ish BIG SUV. I want to live in a peaceful home so I agree.
Also, we do travel often with the whole crew.
~Minivan – Idea = Dead. Again, wife gets what she wants…
~MPG – Not crazy important, I know all the SUVs listed guzzle gas like Linsday Lohan does booze but hard to see around that with the choices…
~Saving money instead – We own a house, have 2 stable jobs, already have short (6 mo) and long term savings (retirement) with no debt besides student loans (and the house of course). We want to have decent things, not extravegent, just decent. Riding around in a 12yr old CR-V five years from now does not count as decent in my opinion.
Again, thanks for everyone’s advice so far but seeing as we are bull-headed and already decided on buying one of the above vehicles, focusing on each’s merits/demerits will probably help us more than anything right now :)
Response to the first comment, yes we have…see responses above.
Well, as long as you’re set on the financial side and also have a good idea of the costs of having a kid…then go for the CUV. I’d pick the 07 Pilot (last year of the first gen). 2 stable jobs will change to 1 full-time and 1 part-time while paying off hospital bills and budgeting for baby needs. 2 full-time jobs will mean paying $500-1000 a month for daycare (totally dependent on location and quality of care). Still coming out ahead, but even less so than currently. Adding a $500 car note doesn’t help.
I’m not much older than you (29) and we have 2 boys. I make good money as a engineer in the utility business (staying strong) and my wife is a social worker for the state (not alot of money). Her check goes towards daycare ($1200/month for 2 which will decline when the oldest goes to school next year) with some leftover
But, it’s still tight enough after the bills are paid each month…we don’t even have cable(!) and the only extravegent monthly bills are a health club and iphones (work pays mine). Hospital bills were paid cash, which they told me never happens…I had to give them a certified check. Should have paid with the AMEX to get more miles.
I find more satisfaction in trying to cut pennies than having a new car smell which just turns to a family-schlepping appliance which leaves you wishing for something new and fancy. And sporty. How do you think BMW sells so many 3-series? Of course, that is just me and I don’t think you should live your life like others. But, asking a question on this forum, as opposed to one with a younger crowd (Jalopnik) will get you more realistc answers.
Anyways, just trying to give you a different perspective of how reality hits you pretty quickly.
Well then…in that case, now knowing that, how about any of the GM Lambda platforms? Acadia, Outlook, Traverse, Enclave; or just get a Pilot if you like Hondas that much? It appears you need something just a size larger than you already have.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the Ford Flex! Educator Dan would have my head! That would be perfect on so many levels!
@OhioPilot09:
After re-reading this and all the comments and especially yours, I’ll just throw down the gauntlet: Buy a Hummer H1! It’s 7 ft. wide, you can throw everything you could want in the thing and don’t worry about the lack of outward visibility – you’ll either go through or over anything that gets in your way! Enjoy!
Yes, I’m being silly.
“~Space – Those of who who suggest keeping the CR-V or just buying a roof rack obvioulsy haven’t been on vacation with two dogs and a wife, let alone plus 1 kid. With the dogs literally taking over the entire back, we have to fit all our suitcases, food (my wife has dietary needs which require we bring much of our own food), dog food, etc in the back seat. If we had to fit a baby seat, let alone eventually 2, back there we just don’t have the room.
My wife is set on a new-ish BIG SUV. I want to live in a peaceful home so I agree.”
Buy a small trailer for the CR-V for the 1% of the time you will need to do this. Or you can also buy a large carrying case for the rear of the vehicle.
We made two baby seats, a 40 lb. dog, and a week’s worth of vacationing to Myrtle Beach in a 2003 Civic for the last three years. If you can’t make it work in a CR-V then you need to re-evaluate your packing methods.
“We own a house, have 2 stable jobs, already have short (6 mo) and long term savings (retirement) with no debt besides student loans (and the house of course). We want to have decent things, not extravegent, just decent. Riding around in a 12yr old CR-V five years from now does not count as decent in my opinion.”
I’m glad that you have stable jobs in this economy. Pay off your student debt first and then worry about the next car. Debt is a barnacle that both of you should try to eliminate for the sake of your family and your future.
Comments like this just slay me. Steve, really, an ’03 Civic?? You hedonist, you. You couldn’t cram everyone into something smaller, like an Isetta?
As they say, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Is anyone listening to what this guy is saying? He wants SPACE, so his family can travel in comfort, rather than marvel at how dear old dad can squeeze every last penny out of his arse.
It sounds like he is financially stable, so lecturing him about pulling a clown car routine with his family isn’t helping. Not everyone focuses deliriously on the bottom line.
Civicguy, all of your choices are fine. I would only add, as I mentioned above, the Taurus X for an under-the-radar choice. Otherwise, get a sitter and take wifey on a test-drive-a-thon and pick a winner.
Seriously, it’s like one of those old Ad Libs:
I crammed ____ people and _____ dogs/cats/giraffes_____into a 1998 ______ -box, plus ________ tied to the rear bumper and drove all the way to __________ -ville and back and everyone was just _________ by the time we got home.
@PartsUnknown: “Help me, this is what I need/want, this is my limitations, and here are my assumptions…” Reply: “You’re wrong! You don’t need that at all, you need something completely different and your assumptions are all wrong!”
For a car blog, you’d think TTAC readers would be a little more supportive of someone who wants to buy a car!
PartsUnknown, if we needed a bigger car we would have used it. I had a Mercedes S500 and Crown Vic/ Grand Marquis at our disposal along with a few minivans. My wife likes the Civic, it has plenty of room (more usable space than my old Camry), and everything fits fine in it.
I think this fellow just WANTS to have an SUV. That’s fine. But he already has an SUV that will fit his needs.
If he wants to blow the dough, that’s his decision. Not my advice.
“For a car blog, you’d think TTAC readers would be a little more supportive of someone who wants to buy a car!”
@HalfMast: Are you kidding? Many commenters here either are young, have no money, just buy 10+ year-old cars, or all three, or if it ain’t a “Panther”, it ain’t nuthin’!
@Zackman: Too true. Though in this case, replace “Panther” with “CR-V”. And throw in a few of the “In my day, we didn’t have CUV’s, we had station wagons and we put 12 kids and a goat in it to drive to the market every morning!” types.
Steve, thanks for bolstering my point. The reader is looking for advice on what car to buy, what to look for in a mid-size CUV, along with a list of requirements around interior space, price, etc.
Nowhere in his post did I read the following: “I’d like everyone on TTAC to critique my lifestyle, packing methods and choice of dog breed. Also, please question my financial choices and my desire for additional space in a new automobile. Make sure to describe irrelevant anecdotes about how many people/dogs/pieces of luggage you typically carry on vacations, despite the fact that this doesn’t help me in the least. And for crying out loud, DO NOT answer my original question.”
Thanks for clearing things up for us all, it does sound like you have things well planned… like I said in my original post, I was betting you were buying a new vehicle regardless! And dont be too tough on your wife about the minivan, if you read my other posts you know I am not a big fan of them if they arent needed/wanted.
I still think the Pilot is the best choice from your list, it shares the platform of the Odessey, and when we drove them I noticed they are distinctly wider than most SUVs inside because of it. The material quality feels better than Nissan or Hyundai and even Toyota. The Nissan is small inside, maybe even smaller than your CRV. I have never been a big fan of the Highlander, just dont care for the styling, but a guy at work drives a Venza and LOVES it, he says its the best vehicle he has ever owned. I have never driven one, but you might want to consider it. I think the CrossTour is hideous, the Venza is at least very nicely proportioned. I havent driven the new Explorer, but it IS getting pretty good reviews, and SYNC is very cool. My wife really liked the Taurus X, so yours might like the similar Explorer. I do not care for the Hyundai, its an older design and just doesnt seem as nice as the others on your list. Probably much cheaper though.
One thing I would also recommend is checking out full sized SUVs, Tahoe or Expedition. They are really nice, very reliable and can usually be found with major discounts these days, and the gas mileage really isnt much different from smaller SUVs, but the interiors are much roomier, and they seem to hold up to 10 yrs of kid abuse better too.
“… but seeing as we are bull-headed and already decided on buying one of the above vehicles…”
I suppose I should have read everything, including this, first and saved myself the typing I did further down.
I don’t get where driving a minivan or a ten-year-old vehicle has anything to do with one’s coolness or lack thereof. My personal sense of my own coolness comes from the things I can do, not the vehicle I drive to get to where I do them (often enough, it’s a minivan).
I’m in my 50’s. Over time, I’ve made my share of money-wasting decisions. I’m lucky to have arrived where I am today with the wherewithal to enjoy life but I still wish I’d gotten here with a bit more cash, especiallly cash that I could have obtained with a bit of relatively painless savings (savings are tax-advantaged!).
—
In keeping with the sort of advice you are open to, I’d suggest a FWD Pilot or Highlander. Historically, they tend to keep their value and, if you’re going to be trading vehicles periodically, low depreciation rates will save you considerable money. I’m pretty sure they’re highly ranked by CR but you should take a look at the most recent issue to be sure. You might also consider saving a bit of money, now, by buying one used. They hold up well and getting one that’s a year or two old will save you money without risking much.
You might even consider a FWD Rav4. The newest generation has a surprising amount of room in it; you may find it meets your needs and they get pretty good performance with the 4-cylinder.
Also, CR-V’s have a good rep. Don’t trade yours in for peanuts, sell it privately.
One other thing… if you feel you must have this now… well, OK. However, if you reconsider and think you could wait a year or two, there will probably be more vehicles available with more advanced fuel-saving technology (Direct Injection engines, idle-stop) from which to choose in another year or two.
The typical wife is a lot stupider than she thinks she is. I know. I have one of my own.
Let her struggle for a month or two with her current car, with the kids and dogs and groceries see how she does.
Then, after the reality of shuffling kids & animals about in a too-small car has beaten her down and broken her spirit, you can get the Odyssey that she should have gotten in the first place.
One question, keep in mind I’ve not done any research and would have no credible rebuts to arguments based on past knowledge, but if price is an issue and badge is not as important, what about a Kia Borrego, or a Sorento? A friend has had a Sorrento for quite a few years and has seemed to have luck with it. He’s not exactly kind to his cars either.
I know nothing of the Borrego, and very little about the Sorento, but I imagine they would be cheaper than other options and Kia seems to be on the upswing lately (one of the reasons I recently bought one).
I thnk the Sorrento is too small, more CR-V size, isn’t that right?
I think the Sorento might be similar in size to the Pilot, and the Borrego might be close to a last gen Explorer. The Sportage appears to be close to CR-V sized though.
Another idea, based on the affinity for Hondas, and again I’ve not done the research because I don’t need anything that big could be an Element. There might be some killer deals since the are axing the Element line. Yes/no?
My comments are usually fodder for B&B to discuss more intelligently than I can and I like that. I learn a lot from these guys.
Element’s no bigger than the CR-V, and the doors are kind of a pain if you’re chauffeuring kids. I love mine, but our kid is out of the nest.
civicguy: I happen to like your financial plan (though I think I’d go with 3 year loans to shorten the cycle time), I agree with your wife on running away from minivans, and I think you’re thinking right in the mid-sized SUV. Personally, I still drive my RX-8 and my 2 y/o fits fine, but my dog is only 12 pounds. I think the 2 Goldens throw’s a kink in things, and people tend to underestimate how much STUFF kids come with. Here’s some additional thoughts:
1. Mazda CX-7: I know you’re looking at the CX-9, but I really think the 7 may have enough room for you, and it drives like a much smaller car. Other’s have suggested a Mazda5, but I hate how it drives, and it’s smaller than you think it is.
2. Suburu Outback or Volvo XC70: Both might be a little pricey, but if you can find them, I think they could work well. In fact, get one of those gates to go between the back seats and the cargo area, and you could stick the dogs back there sans cages.
3. Ford Edge or Flex: Since you are looking at the CX-9, you might as well consider it’s platform-mate, the Ford Edge. I’m also traditionally a Japanese car-guy, but you’ll be able to find a lot more Edges out there, and IMO Ford has stepped up their game. The Edge is on my list when I have to upgrade for child #2. The Flex was Ford’s entry into the mini-van market without it being a mini-van, so you might be able to get your wife to consider that one.
Other comments: I drove a Matrix for a while and enjoyed it, but think it’ll be too small for you, same or smaller than the CR-V. I think you’ll find most other hatchbacks and station wagons (besides Outback and Volvo) are going to be hard to get the dog cages in, since they tend to be raked in the back. Finally, I had friends with a Pathfinder, and they found the milage to be pretty awful, if I recall. It’s been a few years, so maybe that’s changed.
Ought to add this one… I had family who bought a Scion xB because it was easy for the dogs to get in and out of (sits relatively low and the lift gate makes for easy entrance). I don’t really think it’s what you’re going for, but it’s compariable to Mazda5 that other’s have suggested and the dogs made me think of it.
In regards to the CX-7, Outback, Edge…he might as well keep the CRV or consider another CRV as they’re all pretty close in size. The Outback and Edge being a little larger in the rear. The Flex is a great vehicle, but many don’t care for the polarizing looks…you can get the same bones but in a more conservative package with the Taurus X.
Ford Edge shares a platform with the CX-9 which he already expressed interest in, and is larger than CR-V in all deminsions. That’s why I suggested it.
Outback and CX-7 are also larger than CR-V, but you’re right there isn’t isn’t a much of a difference. Still, he’s looking for options, so I gave them. I was thinking they may like something that drives closer to the Civic and CR-V (before his follow-up comment). Still, I think they’d be worth looking at.
Good point on the X being another option. I also assumed that since he’s mid-20’s, he would not be opposed to the edgier looks of the Flex.
Edge and Mazda CX7 utilize the CD2 platform…from the Fusion and Mazda6. The CX9 uses the larger D platform with every other large Ford and Lincoln car/crossover.
Yes, it is larger and mostly wider. I’ve had a few as rentals now, drives very nice.
halfmast, consumer reports just ranked Edge 18th out of 19th in their review of the segment. Avoid Edge.
jj99: What didn’t they like? Lately, I’ve not agreed with a lot of their ratings on interior, handling, etc. Though I still trust their reliability rating above all others.
halfmast, if Consumer Reports car experts say no good, then no good it is.
jj99: Really? So if Consumer Reports says that the Tata Nano is the best car in the world for the money, you’d run out to get one?
If CR says Edge is a maintenance hog or safety concern then yes, I’d believe them because I don’t have the resources or ability to do those tests myself, though I’d review their results to make sure our standards match. But I’ve seen them knock down good cars for subjective reasons like interior materials, dashboard layout, steering responsiveness, ride (stiff or soft). A lot of these are personal preference, or not a major concern for me.
“We have two Golden Retrievers who travel with us a lot to visit family, etc and we are expecting our first child this March and probably another child while we are driving this new car.”
I can’t even imagine the amount of poop that you’re going to be dealing with for the next several years.
Train the Goldies to change out the nappies.
” I think the best product for your needs are the large, efficient and somewhat fun to drive GM Lambda Crossovers.”
Maybe so but don’t keep it past it’s warranty unless you live next door to Mr. Goodwrench, have money to burn and don’t mind driving loaners and rentals!
Spouse and I had twins and used an 03 Passat Wagon purchased 3 years old for kid duty; both or our marital cars, which we still owned, had two doors and were small. Then a 3rd arrived and I was glad we had not purchased a CR-V – three car seats fit across the back of the Passat and we have now had it for almost 5 years. Carries plenty of luggage. Gets over 30mpg highway. Great handling. We have now reached a point where carpooling is useful and we have an aupair – 6-7 seats are needed. Sticking to our $15,000 car budget, a 4 year old Ford Freestyle was the best option. Not as much hauling space as a minivan but we are getting about 30 mpg on the highway and it is 400-600 lbs lighter than a minivan. We both prefer smaller, lighter, and more nimble cars. It is very difficult to find a 3 in the middle row minivan.
Don’t be confused by marketing about the kind of car you need. We have friends with 3 who made do with a 4 door honda civic as their family car for several years. The CR-V is entirely adequate for your load carrying needs!
Good God man! We had five adults, two dogs and luggage in a cr-v and no one complained… You need something bigger to hold a single child seat or two? Doesnt the cr-v u have have a second row of seats??
To the original poster: All your contenders fail The Golden Retriever Test. It goes like this: ‘can a candidate vehicle, while in full acceleration mode, pin said retrievers to the hatch door glass’? A while back I read a review of a vehicle that could reportedly do that (Volvo V70R).
Now, if you want a serious answer, here it is: be honest with yourself and acknowledge that your paid-off CRV plus a roof-top luggage box is quite sufficient, and save up your money to weather the economy, which will not get better for a good number of years.
Is ttac turning into a humor magazine? The three of us, and the labrador did fine in a TR-4 for a couple of years. We eventually moved to a Mustang convertible, more for the V8 than the luggage rack.
The lab liked a later Thunderbird best, as he could move freely from the front to the back. The current lab prefers the passenger seat of the S 2000 when the top is down.
Take Lang’s advice. If you really need more cargo space, either the roof rack or a small trailer suggestion (or both) will serve.
Save your money! You’re going to need it! All of it!
Also, we have found that it’s much easier to travel with the dog if the dog only travels as far as the nearby boarding kennel. Or hire a reliable neighborhood kid (a Boy Scout will generally do) to come by the house a couple times each day and feed, walk and play with Rin-tin-tin and Lassie while you’re gone (he can also take in the papers and mail and check for flooding). Vacation time in the kennel has never hurt one of our dogs.
Or, you could just rent an SUV/van for the occasional trip and call it a day! We have done that and it beats larger vehicle care and feeding any time!
One last comment for the group:
In my opinion, I think it’s worth the cost of the vehicle to be able to comfortably throw the family in the car, dogs and all, and go see the new beaming grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, etc. Being able to do that without a week of preparation for dog kennels/sitters, tough decisions on what to take, tetris-style trunk packing and negotiating whose lap the dog sits on, or waiting for Enterprise to arrive with the rental… to me, it’s all worth the price of whatever CUV he chooses. It’s only money, people!
Good luck civicguy! Hope you find a good price on something you enjoy driving!
Take the advice for what it’s worth and where it’s from, a bunch of middle-aged (or older) folks drawing from personal experience, and you never really know what to expect until after you have your first child.
You’re lucky to have two very good cars already, which is another reason so many of us recommend keeping them. You’re almost into diminishing returns, where spending more won’t get you proportionate results.
Wait until after the kid is born, then re-evaluate your needs. The CR-V might be fine, or you might really need the Mazda5 or the Pilot. You won’t really know for sure until you get there.
And constant car payments suck, even with one-year gaps in between. At some point you’ll want some relief from them.
I’ve never understood the stigma of minivans. I personally don’t like SUV’s except as off-road or heavy-towing vehicles, while minivans are much more useful family vehicles. If you need space, get something that actually gives you space.
I agree totally with what the other Steve says. You don’t actually need the space to cart around a gaggle of people and dogs every single day. How many 7-seater SUV’s do you see putzing to work carrying a single person, maybe two on the weekends so you can go buy more stuff. Rent what you need when you need it – that should keep your wandering urges in check and save your money for when you’re really going to need it. The rest of us commuters will appreciate a little more space on the road.
Why bother with a mid-size SUV? You’re going to need a bigger vehicle sooner rather than later. Buy a lightly used Suburban. They’re going for pennies on the dollar right now, due to the gas prices. With “Displacement on Demand” or whatever the marketers are calling it now, you’ll be getting about 20 highway with it. There are also plenty of “junkyard upgrades” that you could do to it to maximize comfort and convenience.
I second that. A used Suburban with captain’s chairs in the middle. Hell, even a Tahoe will do just fine, you’ll just not have as much room in the back. They ride fantastic and you’ll easily get 600+ miles on a single tank during a long highway trip.
That’s what my brother did. Works from home, 2 kids, monthly trips with the whole family + Grandma and maybe me. Well worth the money to not have to cram everything into the Tribeca or rent something.
may not be cool, but bad backs aren’t either. Later, when you are actually dropping kids off at school and activities, you’ll see how nice it is to have a minivan with power sliding doors.
My post got garbled. The original post said that a paid-for CRV is the perfect vehicle for a family with two dogs and one small child. Try to drive it for (at least) another year before engaging your 4-1-5 plan. Once paid for, make a car payment to yourself earmarked for a future downpayment. You might find out that you can save enough that you don’t have to trade in a car when you eventually buy the family truckster. If you have room for three vehicles, you can only drive the truckster when you really need the room.
As far as SUV versus minivan is concerned, for most purposes, a Honda Pilot and Honda Odyssey are interchangeable. The biggest exception is in crowded garage or crowded parking lot. Having the sliding door makes getting kids in and out a lot easier, especially with a car seat. In future years, when you are dropping off kids at school or activities, you’ll find that a power sliding door is worth its weight in gold.
What’s with people thinking they need giant vehicles because they have a kid or two? Myself and my brother were raised in an ’81 Civic wagon with no A/C and no factory radio. We didn’t have a dog, but it was still 4 people in a Honda Civic wagon and we took that thing to Florida multiple times. I think something like a Jetta wagon would work fine for most people these days. Too bad Honda pretty much abandoned the wagon market except for the one Acura they finally decided to sell.
It sounds as though the CR-V you already have would accommodate your needs and not put you in the poor house (the kid will do that instead).
Buying a new car so often is a huge waste of money. But if you’re into that, then do whatever makes you happy. I hate car payments and am doing my best to not have another car payment until 2015. I’d do as Steve says and save up and pay cash. That is unless you can get really low financing where the cash would be better placed in an emergency fund.
I’m a new dad and a dog owner as well. My wife drives an ’05 Mazda3 hatch and I went through a similar thought process when Jr. was on the way. Partly because I didn’t see any especially compelling choices in the market, I ended up buying a Thule cargo box and roof rack (~$750 new) and it has worked out very well for us. The amazing thing is how many times we drive the car with the cargo box empty. There have been times when the car and box is filled to capacity, but it’s been fewer times than I would have imagined.
Don’t forget that you can always rent if you’re short on space, but again, I think you’d be surprised how well you’ll be able to make due with the CR-V. Save yourself some trouble (and money) and don’t anticipate space issues that may never materialize.
First of all, don’t buy anything until after junior arrives on the scene. A few weeks/months of your soon to be new lifestyle might change your wants/needs entirely.
Secondly, while slightly older than you and your wife, I have good friends that did buy the minivan on arrival of their first. (They also had two German Shepards.) Both were minivan adverse, but when the kid arrived “looking cool” wasn’t as important as putting the entire stoller in the back without disassembling it. They love the minivan – so tastes do change – sometime quickly.
If you are hell bent on a large SUV, I know of several rental companies that offer a wide array of large suv’s with unlimited miles for decent weekly prices. You always get a newer model that you don’t have to worry about maintence and repair on. Secondly, you only take that huge hit at the gas pump when you actually need the mega SUV. My father drives a Pilot and let me tell you the difference in economy compared to my Accord is staggering. You have to budget for things like fuel especially going from relatively economical vehicles to ones not so much.
Since it sounds like you’re going to get something because your wife wants it my advise would be the Pilot or Highlander. Both are good vehicles with better resale than the rest on the list. If you’re going to be turning over vehicles often best to have some resale left in the thing. That said, I’m a little bit adverse to spending money just to make the wife happy. That is a bad precedent to set that doesn’t end well for a lot of guys…just saying.
Bah.
Sell the CRV and use that money to buy an Odyssey.
Or get rid of the dogs.
I have an 05 Pathfinder (first year of the current design) with the 4.0L direct injection engine. The manual states premium fuel is RECOMMENDED. I usually put regular in it though and I am at 120k miles on it without any issues so I wouldn’t rule it out for that reason.
Driving around Houston it only gets 16 mpg on average, but on the highway it usually gets about 24 which is pretty good considering. The power is excellent, and it can tow reasonable loads without any trouble.
The rear cargo area with seats down is huge compared to most two row SUV’s and it’s been a lifesaver with two kids having to lug stuff with us to the grandparents. It fits two car seats in the back fine, and with the third row seats you have room for a couple, albeit small, people. The back seats are NOT intended for two adults. The leg room is too cramped, but for kids it’s great. The only limitation size wise would be it feels narrow compared to some vehicles. So if you are of wide stature it might be a little uncomfortable.
The AC works well, though I have had to replace the resistor pack for the dual zone climate fan controller(~$60 for the part, 10 minute driveway repair job). Another nice thing is the rear A/C vents are in the ceiling and the rear seat passengers never have to worry about not getting enough circulation as they move a good amount of air on full blast.
The transmission is smooth, and usually does a good job choosing gears. The Bose stereo sounds good too. Overall we are happy with it. Tires are expensive for it though, but I am guessing that’s the case with any SUV right now. If you plan on keeping it you might want to look for one with a DVD player for the kiddos. We take a lot of long trips and my wife was against it, but after doing it a while we kinda wish we had one. The Nissan factory one is removable as well so you can take it with you when you get there for the kids to watch movies on which is a nice feature. Overall it’s been very trouble free considering how much we drive it. The original shocks are still in good shape as well which is incredible for over 100k miles. My wife does not like how responsive the steering is because it makes it feel like you are fighting to hard to keep it on the road in high winds on an open highway.
One more good thing, it has a timing chain instead of belt.
Repairs so far (excluding oil changes):
Brake Pads ~$150
Resistor Pack ~$60
4 Michelin Cross Terrain Tires ~$800
Plugs ~$30
I am in the exact same boat as this guy. Late 20’s, married, own a home, first kid due in June. I have a very good job as a lead systems engineer for a financial company so perhaps if you’re more on my side of things my story might relate…
I used to have a GMC Canyon pickup for towing my atv’s/railcar etc. I traded that in on a 2008 Honda Pilot (last year of that generation) and got what I think is a very good deal on the swap since I got the GMC real cheap in the first place. We also ditched my wife’s focus and my Hyundai Accent and I picked up a Nissan Juke (I just couldnt drive a bargain basement econobox anymore ). I plan to pay off the Pilot in full very shortly but may keep the note on the Juke just cause I dont feel like parting with the cash. So I actually went 3 cars to 2 (not counting the Pinz).
I looked at alot of different vehicles but the Pilot could not be beat. It was cheaper used than a Highlander. Taurus X was nonexistent in my area. CR-V could not handle the towing I need. I have to say, there is just so much room in that thing, I have been amazing what I can haul in it. Plus its just really comfortable. The wife loves it cause it drives like a mini van and not a BOF SUV, but it doesnt looks like a mini van. Mileage has been ok (gets 18mpg no matter how its driven) so I cant complain. Keep in mind Honda recommends premium but I run regular with no ill effects.
Judging from your criteria, you can scratch the Hyundai Veracruz off the list.
I own a Hyundai Veracruz myself, and it seems almost like the complete opposite of what you’re looking for. I’ll start with the negatives.
Cons
Good MPG, relatively speaking of course for a vehicle this size. – I average around 14mpg around town and I’m a light footed driver
Major issue free for 10 years, or as much so as possible. – Over the last couple years, running costs and maintenence costs have been very very high
*Valve Cover Gasket Replaced Twice
*Alternator Replaced Once
*Fuel Filter Replaced
*Steering has been realigned 5 times, and the whole assembly has been replaced once due to a very prominent titanic like squeaking noise
*Driver’s Steering Airbag coil assembly replaced
*HIDs replaced twice (Right Side)
*Suspension – Whoever tuned the Veracruz needs to get shot. You really wonder how they make the thing as soft, mushy and disconnected as a Lexus, while making it crash over the smallest of bumps like a supercar. Hell, It’s as if someone put on the bushings the wrong way. The suspension also emits all kinds of unwieldy noises when going over bumps.
~25k – Yes, you can get a nice used one for 25
Pros
~Enough room in the second row for 2 car seats. – Enough room to fit 4 if you used all 3 rows
~Enough room behind the second row for 2 dog crates and as much luggage as possible. – Cavernous Cargo Area! It’s very very big. Ever larger than the traverse’s cargo area. This car is bigger than Honda Pilot but doesn’t seem like one.
~Powertrain – The 3.8 in this engine is simply excellent. Under normal driving, I never get it over 2k rpm, It’s transmission is as smooth as a CVT, and it’s exhaust makes a nice growl while accelerating.
However, the engine does get a bit rough around 1450 RPM, and there’s quite a bit of drivetrain/tire noise around 62MPH.
In conclusion, the SUV is a nice try for what it is; but wait for a Veracruz 2.0 which hopefully addresses those issues
The heretical thing to do is move up to something like a diesel X5 or Q7 TDI.
You’ll never regret it. These are magical years, made even better with an excellent vehicle. Be bold and when you look back years from now part of that inner satisfaction will be the memories associated with the experience of a fine ride.
If at all possible, avoid becoming another schlub peddling a droning penalty box.
I wouldn’t go nearly as far as you, but the posters here suggesting that the two Hondas should last until the as yet unborn children crash them in their teens are unrealistic.
We’ve owned two comfortable, late model highway vehicles since our one child was born (Volvo 850 Wagon and Ford Freestyle). We’ve enjoyed the ability to travel comfortably without fretting over every last bag or toy, getting kicked in the back by squirmy kids, or getting beaten up by long drives in an aging compact. Hauling more kids than you have is a reality of parenthood.
Our one attempt at a smaller family car, a Subaru Legacy wagon, was abandoned to commuting only in only two years.
There’s a middle ground between $800 a month in car payments all the time, and a LeMons budget for family driving.
The poster probably should take his couple of years of no-payments driving until kid #1 develops legs that reach mom and dad’s seatbacks. That delay is a responsible way of making sure the family can manage two-career parenthood and childcare costs, not a reason not to drive a decent car for family travel in the long run.
The reality is that few people have the automotive skills to pick and maintain used cars in satisfactory conditions. For the rest, the adage “somebody else’s headache” applies in spades.
A base Highlander or a Mazda 5 bought new and driven for a decade certainly won’t break the bank. Life’s too short.
“The heretical thing to do is move up to something like a diesel X5 or Q7 TDI.”
I’m going to go out on a limb and say the OP isn’t considering a $55-65,000 car, since he’s carefully planning his 5-year payment schedule.
How about a Dodge Journey (with the pentastar V6) or wait for the new I4 to come out – not sure when that would be
Wait until you’re a few months into the first kid. Sliding doors that open from a key fob are what minivans are all about, and you need to consider that seriously. We hated minivans and finally got one when the reality of six people set in (two kids and two live-in grandparents with mobility issues). An SUV is an inferior solution to a proper minivan as long as you stay on the street.
If you can’t stomach leaving the dogs at home (obvious solution to me since we walk and run with our dogs rather than carrying them around in our cars . . . ) a vehicle with an automatic tailgate will make them love you even more.
I suggest a little field research. Talk to couples who have one or two kids under five and ask them what they like/hate about their cars as parents. Do real field research. Don’t just ask your friends or relatives (they know what you want to hear), greet people you don’t know in parking lots and ask them.
Having dogs does not prepare couples for parenting humans, though this meme persists stubbornly. Put in some time with the first kid and your future will become obvious. Besides, this is a lousy time to buy a car; wait it out for a year or so.
Seconded, thirded, etc. You make some great points, and they deserve a round of “hear, hear!”
I don’t have dogs, but I do have two kids and a minivan (though without the power sliding doors). If you have young kids, you’ll appreciate the walk-through to the second row, the huge door that you can easily load a child into, the lack of swing-outs, the ease of which you can stow a stroller or a portable crib.
There are few things that ease your stress than being able to pull over, on the side of the road (say, one that lacks a safe shoulder, or when it’s -20C), and either a) breastfeed a screaming infant and/or b) pull out the portable potty and let your toddler take a wiz.
“Having dogs does not prepare couples for parenting humans, ”
It does if you spend 6 months lugging them about in a big plastic basket, then the next few years picking them up and strapping them into car seats 2 or 3 times a day, while loading and unloading 40-lb strollers & travel systems.
Remember how long the wife kept trying to wear those high heel shoes, before pregnancy got her wearing sneakers?
Same deal with the car. Sure, the CUV is more fashionable, just like her pre-kid stiletto heels. Eventually, reality sets in that the CUV isn’t as practical as a minivan.
8-lb babies are cute and all, but sum total of the continuous physical loading / unloading of kids & stuff which grows ever heavier eventually takes its toll on the strongest of backs.
The minivan’s lower seat height, easier access to rear rows, extra storage / cargo space, remote doors & tailgate make a huge difference to a lot of moms. And that is why moms drive minivans.
I’ll play counter-point to this one. I have a 2 year old son. My car is a Mazda RX-8 and my wife drives a Mazda3. Day-to-day, this works great. I really don’t miss the sliding doors or auto-lift gates (which you can also get on SUV’s, btw). Frankly, the RX-8 has been easier to get the kid in and out, since the half door swings open, but the Mazda3 is just fine. We can also load either car up for weekend trips without having to leave anything behind (though we tend to be minimalist in the baby-stuff department).
However… there’s not any room to spare right now. Our dog is a 12-lb weiner dog, nothing compared to 2 full-sized retreviers. And while I don’t worry about room for kid #2, when that day comes along, I know that I DON’T have room for the “stuff” required for two children, who are at least 2 years apart.
IMO the minivan is overkill for a family of 4 (even with 2 dogs). Auto lift gates, remote sliding doors are just additional items that can break (and frequently do). If you need more space, than use that as your measuring stick. Save the minivan for when you have 5 humans to haul around and need frequent use of that 3rd row.
I’m going to side with the guys who say “wait until the kid gets here.”
As far as the poop-covered mongrels, we only had one, and we don’t have any dogs. But after six months of hoisting a baby seat into the back of a Chevy Prizm, I broke down and bought a seven-year-old Aerostar. It had no passenger air bag, and baby could sit up front and be rear-facing and papa-facing at the same time. It was AWESOME. Stupid sedans; baby goes in the rr middle seat, facing away from you, and if the binkie drops out of her mouth, you are screwed.
Seriously, I got my first car at 23 yrs of age, my 2nd at 27, and have had three dozen cars in the 20 years since. I love stuff with wheels, cars, bicycles, whatever. But with a kid, what matters is how well it works for you.
My wife’s an antique dealer, so I spent a lot of weekends with my daughter. Having a minivan meant having a place to change diapers, even a place to camp. Backing up to the beach at Lake Michigan, opening the tailgate and having breakfast right there.
Your mileage may vary, and so may your wife’s, but you won’t know until you live with the little rugrat for a while. Then is a good time to decide what to buy.
Cheers -Mathias
“…we are expecting our first child this March…” – that would be ten months away, no? Last time I checked a pregnancy lasts only 9 months – are you sure you need a bigger car right now?
I love this site. Lots of interesting articles and comments.
But there is a ever growing faction ridicules / admonishes anyone who:
1) has a car payment
2) buys new
3) doesn’t figure the absolute cheapest possible way to own a car
Guess what? I just bought a new Honda Accord. Had 3 miles on it when I took delivery. I took out a loan even tho I have plenty of cash. 0.9% financing for 5 years is basically free money. And I traded in a perfectly good 2002 Ford Taurus with 60K miles on it for $3000. Taurus ran great, as I had owned since new and had cared well for it. Probably could have driven it for 5 more years with minimal costs.
Why
– I work / for with wealthy and successful people. I felt like a doofus driving a 2002 Taurus parked next to their Benzes, Audis, etc. I couldnt see buying a benz or BMW, because I am cheap at heart. But a 21K Honda seemed reasonable.
– A brand new car drives real nice. Tight as a drum.
– I wanted curtain airbags and stability control. I have no delusion that my diligence is adequate for any situation. ( I have 26 years of accident free driving, but I count luck as much as skill in that)
Anyway, I/m quite sure I made the right decision. The monthly car payment is less than a day’s wage, and I am happier every day behind the wheel. Sometimes a new car really is the right move.
Bravo to both Sajeev and Steve for hitting the original questioner with some hardcore truth. People come up with amazing, Byzantine rationales and plans when it comes to vehicle purchases, but the fact is that we (most of us, anyway) are guys, and every 3-5 years we get an itch to buy a fresh car.
From a strictly financial perspective, the right answer is almost always “Drive the wheels off the one you already own.” If you decide to buy another ride, be honest with yourself: you’re ready for a change. Nothing wrong with that.
I just went through this with my brother, who owned a gorgeous 5-year-old Infiniti and has a short commute. He persuaded himself he needed a hybrid due to high gas prices. When I asked how many gallons he’d have to use before he paid himself back (answer: many, many years’ worth!), I got a blank stare. He had the itch for new wheels, and fuel mileage was his rationale.
Civicguy – if part of the requirement is to keep your wife happy, then buy what she wants. Happy wife = happy life.
Keep in mind, however, that a newborn baby will totally alter your lifestyle. My advice would be to wait several months before purchasing the next vehicle, to give you and your wife some time to adjust to your new circumstances. This will also allow some time learning the ins and outs of loading a vehicle with a newborn and two dogs.
You’re going to do what you do regardless of all of the contrary advice, so buy whatever will keep your wife happy.
And, as a final comment, you don’t neccesarily need a giant vehicle – in our early twenties my wife and I owned a ’79 Ford Fiesta, which carried the two of us, our newborn baby and two large German Shepherds, along with the required luggage, and we drove 800 miles a few times like that.
I agree with Steve. My parents hauled around 4 kids in a 2 door chevette.
But at the same time, a person is always going to be hindered by auto expenses. So either you pay for repairs or you pay the payment. Take your choice. Until people give up automobiles, theres always gonna be cost. Back to my parents, they tried what steve said. They dumped thousands of dollars into used cars, trying to keep them running. They would have probably been better buying new every few years. But during those times (80s & 90s) interest rates were far higher than today. So financing costs were high as well.
They should do their patriotic duty and spend their money. By saving, they are hurting the economy.
Let’s face it, you’re not going to listen to reason, so why not do the exact opposite of what i would do: Screw your 4-1-5 plan. Buy the biggest SUV you can find. I would recommend a Suburban or Expedition for the reasons stated in previous comments. Also, make sure you buy it brand new. You wouldn’t want to worry about exensive vehicle repairs now, would you? High vehicle payments? Just ammortize the loan for 7 years. Immagine how cool your wife would look driving this beast. Your neighbors would turn green from all the jelousy. Wow. And you would have soooo much room for all your pets, kids, and stuff. Make sure that the vehicle is made in USA though to support your country and help the economy. And please report back to us in a few years to let us know how things are going.