Just a week after GM CEO Dan Akerson slammed Ford’s Lincoln revival, Ford is asking its Lincoln dealers to put big money down on the brand’s future. Automotive News [sub] reports
A group of 120 Lincoln dealers had been invited to the meeting to hear Ford’s plans to rebuild its remaining luxury brand, say dealers who attended.
Ford expects stand-alone Lincoln dealers to spend an average of $1 million on renovations, dealers say. Owners of Ford-Lincoln duals are expected to spend about $1.9 million to remodel, dealers who went to the meeting say.
If dealers do not invest in renovations, Ford says it will seek to take back their franchises in exchange for compensation. The investment requirement applies only to urban dealers — for now.
And what do the dealers get in return for their hefty outlays? Hot new Lincoln product, or, in the words of a Lincoln rep “seven new or significantly refreshed vehicles coming out in the next three years.” Which means that if you want to get aboard the Lincoln express (destination:viability), you’ll have to get your store to Lincoln standards by the end of 2013, when a redesigned MKZ and a Focus-based Lincoln compact hit dealers.
Ford’s Alan Mulally admits the Lincoln turnarond is going to require a little faith from dealers, as one Lincoln dealer explains the meeting, saying
Mulally said: “We’re asking you to trust us a little bit, just like we asked you to trust us five years ago with the Ford brand. The whole process is starting right now,
And if not all the dealers believe in the Lincoln turnaround, that’s just fine with Ford. Ford started its luxury brand turnaround in October with 500 dealers, had cut that number to 434 by the end of February and will continue to pare down its retail footprint to 325 stores by the end of the year. That means any Lincoln dealer who doesn’t like what he or she sees product-wise is free to move along. And what can those who stay on team Lincoln expect to be selling down the road?
Ford will freshen the MKS sedan and MKT crossover next year. The 2013 MKZ sedan will be redesigned and will offer a 2.0-liter direct-injection turbocharged EcoBoost engine. Ford says the 2013 MKZ Hybrid will get 47 mpg city, up from 41 mpg city for the 2011 MKZ Hybrid.
The redesigned 2013 MKZ moves to Ford’s global mid-sized platform. It was designed by Max Wolff, Lincoln’s design chief, who was hired from Cadillac late last year.
Dealers who saw the 2013 MKZ say it’s dramatically different from the current model. It has the Lincoln waterfall grille but with more European front and rear design cues reminiscent of Aston Martin and Volvo.
Tada! Turnaround!
-Pay $1 million.
-Get the opportunity to sell a Focus with a new grille and some more equipment.
-Fail
And the really sad thing is I bet the MKWTF is really going to be the planned Mercury with only a badge change.
Ford really should have kept Merc alive at least for a few more years introduce the Merc Focus and kept selling the Milan, Mariner, and Mountaineer at least until their respective redesigns were due. None were huge sellers but on average they accounted for 1/2 or more of the LM volume and were carry overs in the Ford line. That would have bought a little more time to rebuild Lincoln. When it was time to redo the Fusion they should have reached back into the 60’s play book and make a 3″ stretched shell that had exclusive LM sheet metal. Share some of the sheet metal between the Linc and Merc and position/tune the Linc to be the driver’s car and the Merc to be the non-driver’s car.
What a bunch of friggin hypocrites on here… Lexus rebadges and upgrades a toyota and it’s “wow” cool” infiniti rebadges and upgrades a nissan and it’s “wow” “cool” caddilac rebadges friggin chevys and it’s “wow” “cool” Audi and Porsche rebadge VW’s and it’s “wow” cool”
So what the hell is wrong with Lincoln seriously improving and updating a ford and selling it? Y’all need to ge a friggin life!
I’d be inclined to take the compensation. Has Lincoln even looked at what the competition is making nowadays? They are nowhere near.
Earth to Tstag… go and actually drive a Lincoln and do it with your European/Jap rose colored glasses off. I just traded a Jag XF Premium on a new MKX (all options). I drove Mercedes ML, Audi Q5&7, Lexus RX and Acura MDX prior to purchase and previously owned 08 Rover Sport. None of them can compare to what the Lincoln offers for the $ and a lot of what the MKX offers you can’t get from ANY of those manufactures at any price.
The REALLY important part is the cars not the dealership facility. Let’s see the cars.
In the Luxury market, the dealership facilities are pretty important. You don’t want to buy a Lincoln and get treated like you are buying a Ford. But both are needed. The cars have to be up there. And Lincoln has gone ugly.
If the product is poor, people won’t even see the Dealer.
@tced2:
The dealership is a HUGE part of the experience of buying a premium car. Lexus figured that out long ago. Granted, upgrading Lincoln facilities to Lexus/Infiniti level alone won’t fix the brand’s problems, but if they don’t, I guarantee you they will lose sales.
The Lincoln facility in my area is almost outclassed by the “Drive Time” (i.e., used cars for people with bum credit) dealership next door; compare that with the damn near palatial facilities their competitors have (the local BMW dealer, in particular, has a facility that would look right at home as a W Hotel).
I’ve been buying premium cars (MB BMW Rover Jag) for the last 20 years and yes, I like the experience at the dealership. But, I’m also smart enough to know that all that marble and glass is actually costing ME! I want a nice dealership (but not opulent) that provides a calm professional selling environment and excellent service after the sale. I’ve also learned to actually drive and evaluate the cars I purchase and not just look at the logo on the front grill. Heck, I’d put the upper level Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima WAY above the MB C class and BMW 3 and they’re a lot less money.
In fairness, Audi makes a global killing by selling a gussied up golf as an A3. The diesel version of which, sells fairly well here, all things considered. I’d like to see Lincoln offer a real competitor to the A4 and the 3 series. Ford needs to go after the leaders, not the also-rans like Caddy. That they pulled the Caddy design chief for the new cars is no encouraging to me in the least. Ford and GM have consistently ignored the shifting tide of high-end vehicle sales away from “luxury” and towards “premium”. I can buy a freaking Hyundai with tons of bells and chimes and color display nonsense. If I’m going to shell out big bucks, I want a car that does everything well: class leading handling and acceleration, top notch fuel economy, top of class safety, luxury appointments that make ergonomic sense, premium styling and excellent durability all backed by a dealer network that’s going to kiss my butt.
Ford better get with the total pacakage or this is all for naught.
Audi does get away with that much in the same way Lexus does with the ES, but the S4/S5 holds up the brand and gets people into the building.
Let me know the luxury car that gets top notch fuel economy with that class leading handling and acceleration. The two do NOT go together.
BMW Efficient Dynamics i8 / Vision
or Porsche 918.
Great handling, and great acceleration with awesome fuel economy.
Price-wise, hold on to your hat!
Lots of upmarket cars are gussie up cheaper models but beating a Ford with an ugly stick for so long it becomes putrid is not how you build a luxury car
I wonder if any of these dealers asked, “If a customer walks into my store and states an intrest in a G37S or 335i sedan what will we possibly have to offer her/him?”
Or a Genesis 5.0 for that manner…
“If a customer walks into my store and states an intrest in a G37S or 335i sedan what will we possibly have to offer her/him?”
The rebadged Focus, of course. It is about the same size, after all.
Would anyone ever think to walk into a Lincoln dealership if they were in the market for a compact sports sedan? Maybe this sort of stuff happens more than I think, which would explain the existence of absurdities like the Porsche Cayenne, Audi R8, and Jeep Compass.
I remember the Car and Driver magazine with the first test of the Genesis 4.6. The Lincoln MKS was tested in the same issue. They weighed about the same, and the prices were in a window where one might consider them competitors. The MKS had AWD, but other than that it couldn’t have made me more depressed as an American to think that Ford, which pioneered mass production and put the US on wheels, couldn’t harness enough expertise to field a car that was even a worthy footnote to the new arrival from Hyundai, the people who hadn’t even figured out mass production of functioning cars only 20 years earlier.
The Genesis was likely the bigger story, the first truly premium model to come out of Hyundai, while Lincoln has been making full size luxury cars for decades.
The MKS does stack up well against the Genesis when you really look at luxury amenities, and the EcoBoost model has plenty of power and performance, as the http://www.6versus8.com test proved. When pricing comes into play though, the Genesis sits between the Taurus and the MKS, which for bargain hunters in the luxury makes the Genesis a pretty appealing bargain.
@Nullo: With how much cred you normally bring, I can’t believe you’re actually bringing up that bogus “6 vs 8” junk. If that’s the message you want, how about you do an apples-to-apples “6 vs 6” against a BMW 535i?
Or better yet, try a “6 vs 4”, and let those 4s be an Evo & STi?
It seems to me that the Genesis V8s are right in the meat of MKS territory. The 4.6 base price is about 4 grand over the MKS base price and the 5.0R starts out twelve hundred less than the Ecoboost. Luxury amenities are no match for having the architecture and engine configuration of premium cars from Germany. The Genesis plays as a bargain S-class, while the MKS is a tarted up Taurus. I know that the Genesis is lacking in the refinement and heritage areas, but so is the MKS. Reviews have not praised the MKS dynamically, and mostly Lincoln is left selling it as a feature list with no underlying luxury platform. It seems more like an Avalon competitor than it does a 535i competitor, while the Genesis is at least close enough to make an occasionaly comparison test mention with premium cars. I’m no Genesis fan, but it would be nice if Ford could make a business case for a premium platform when Hyundai can.
Now I must comment on your link. 12,000 feet? I live in San Diego, on the edge of La Jolla. Our roads are awash with luxury cars. I see Quattroportes most days. I can’t help but to notice that many V8 luxury cars, such as BMWs, have twin turbos. It doesn’t matter much though, because the highest peak around here is 924 feet IIRC, and most of our driving is probably done within 150 feet of sea level. I also lived in Manhattan for years, another huge market for premium makes. I don’t think anyone is going to give up their E550 for an MKS because it would come in handy if they wanted to test their respiratory system by finding the highest road in the country and then street racing.
The EB 3.5 makes things plenty fast, it’s just an incredibly uninspiring motor compared to its competition.
SVX –
I like that test because it shows the MKS is capable of running with the big boys. I’m sure the altitude probably played a roll, but there were plenty of twists and turns on that road, and while I’m sure an Evo MR or STi could run it just as fast, if not faster, that just shows the value of those cars. The test showed that the MKS is a far cry from the old Town Car in both engine performance as well as dynamically. I don’t think anyone is buying the MKS as a sports sedan, but for someone who wants a cushy luxury sedan with a ton of features and who might occasionally want to put the pedal down in the twistys, it shows the car is capable.
CJ –
Gah, I didn’t realize Geneis Sedans had gotten that expensive, I seem to remember them being less at launch. I don’t think there is anything particularly German about the Genesis – sure, it’s front engine RWD, but so were most cars until FWD took over sometime in the 80s. Yes, RWD has certain benefits dynamically, but for the majority of large luxury sedans who will never drive these cars hard, why does it matter? The enhanced traction and extra interior room that FWD can provide might actually be more of a benefit to these customers, as would a ride biased in favor of comfort over ultimate dynamic capability.
Yes, one of the big benefits of the MKS over the competition is a ton of equipment and features for the price, but the interior materials are also several steps above what Hyundai puts in the Genesis, and when you get down to brass tacks, the platform is Volvo based, so it was originally designed for luxury car use.
Saleswise the MKS is usually about on par with the Genesis sedan, and over it more often than under. It’s a first generation product with some areas it could be stronger, but so was the first gen CTS, and we see how well that’s grown up.
@CJ:
I read that issue too, but keep in mind the MKS was the base, non-turbo model, and yeah, it’s boring. But the turbo model is a whole different ball game.
Jack Baruth could probably flog the MKS hard enough to be able to tell you how a BMW 5-series is dynamically superior, but for the driving that 99.9% of consumers do, the turbo MKS performs very, very well. Even if it doesn’t sell well, it shows the brand has some cred when it comes to producing a high performance luxury car. Personally, I think it bodes well for them.
@SVX:
Agreed, the BMW is the better car, but if you option it up like the MKS is (i.e., all the toys), you’re getting awfully close to 70 large. For that money, it damn well SHOULD be the better car!
And if the 5-series’ driving experience is as bland as I gather it is from the car mags (I haven’t driven it), the MKS might actually acquit itself surprisingly well.
I think the new benchmarks in this class are the Audi A6 and the Infiniti M.
@Nullo: “I’m sure the altitude probably played a roll” Of course it did. It’s no accident that FoMoCo brought a turbo 6 against NA 8s, and staged the event 2 miles above sea level, knowing that a turbo would suffer minimal power loss at altitude. Even oxygen & power-starved from the low-density air, the BMW 5.0 was still top dog.
The EVO & STi would likely eat the MKS for lunch, same with the 335i. All are running blown engines, but with better suspension systems.
Message-wise, nobody is going to compare the MKS with a Town Car, and that’s much of the problem at Lincoln. Lincoln just doesn’t make or sell a “proper” full-size RWD heritage-styled Continental Town Car anymore.
But with Lincoln having a silver fox as their spokesman, is that really who they are or want to be?
@Mike: I have an E60, same platform that they used for the stunt. It’s not a bad-handling car at speed.
@SVX:
The E60 definitely drove like a proper BMW should. I was referring to the 5-series, which has been panned for its dead steering. Haven’t driven that one yet; have you?
The new 5er? No, I don’t like the look of the F10. Not sure if the look will grow on me, tho.
Don’t know how they will pay back that $1M loan selling Lincoln Cimerrons but don’t expect the taxpayer to bail you out…..
I guess the dealerships will have to make money the proper way…Ripping customers off in the Service dept when the fools go in for non-warranty work…”It has a rattle coming from the dash”…”You need a new transmission, sir, that’ll be $10K”
What is a Lincoln?
I think Town Car, Continental and Mark VIII. The current Lincolns contain nothing equivalent, and sadly, are rather bland. They’re not bad cars, but nothing to get excited about. Naming them MK* doesn’t help matters either, but at least when the LS was released, it appeared that Lincoln was going to be Ford’s BMW competitor. A shame they couldn’t make that work. The LS was a very good Gen. 1 car.
Q: “What is a Lincoln? ”
A: A Ford with an ugly grille and a much higher price point.
I figure the Navigator was the last Lincoln to make an impression on the market. Unfortunately for Ford, I don’t think it has much of a present or future as a volume seller.
Full size truck based SUVs in general seem to have been relegated to niche product status with our current gas prices.
Lincoln does have a new Navigator in the works though, although I don’t know if we’ll see something similar to the current model with the addition of the EcoBoost engine to help with fuel economy, or if it will be something more similar to the new Explorer.
Given the sales success of the new Explorer that might not be a bad path to take, even if it does fundamentally change the nature of the vehicle.
Looks like it sucks to be a Lincoln dealership owner.
I’m an engineer in my late twenties. I have owned 5 Lincolns since I started driving, and currently have a Mark VIII as a project car.
Presumably, I’m the sort of young professional type that the luxury brands want to hook with their entry-level models. If anything, I’m biased towards Lincon. I want to like their cars. I want them to give me a reason to go to a dealership this weekend any buy a factory hot rod Lincoln sport sedan.
Here’s the problem – not a single one of their models appeals to me. No RWD and no manual transmission = no sale.
If they cook up something Mustang-based with 4 doors, an upscale interior, class-competitive dynamics, and an Ecoboost V6 or 5.0 driving the rear wheels through a 6MT for under $40K I’ll be happy to buy one; regardless of whether the dealership’s been overhauled or not. Until then, good luck.
Amen to that. I have a turbo diesel 84 continental. I love that car. If they would drop something on the mustang platform that has the refinement of the MKS, but has the balls of a mustang, color me interested.
I think the Lincoln brand is suffering from a lack of identity. The new MKT I think helps with that. Call me crazy, but the tail lamps hark back to your project car in a very big way.
What Lincoln needs is a 2dr and the Mustang would be a good base. Stretch it a couple of inches to make the back seat useable, do an IRS (which could be an option on upper Mustangs?) and make them all retractable hard tops. ~400hp EcoBoost V6 for the Base and ~550 HP EcoBoost V8 for the top model. Call it the Mark IX.
The problem I see with a car like you describe is that in order to be significantly differentiated from a high-spec Mustang a Lincoln coupe would have to be priced beyond what the brand’s credibility can support. A $60k+ coupe is not a reasonable market for the Lincoln of today. A $35k-$45k sporting 4-door might be more doable.
If Ford had stuck with the LS and worked to improve and expand the platform like Cadillac has done with the CTS they would very likely have a world-class RWD sport sedan to sell me today. But they didn’t, so they don’t.
I don’t expect they’ll be successful with what appear to be upcoming FWD-based Lincolns. I doubt many people are real excited to buy a more expensive Fusion/Focus, but with more gadgets and “infotainment”.
“Young” is right… and just how many true luxury cars do you tink are sold with manual transmissions? Lincoln is looking for Mercedes E & S(in the future) and BMW 5 and 7(in the future) buyers and less then 3% of those are sold with manual transmissions in the USA. Go buy a Mustang GT
This is going to be a BIG waste of time and money. Lincoln will NEVER be a global luxury brand. Ford should have just shut down the whole damn Lincoln-Mercury division, and kept Jaguar instead. At least Jaguar has global cache as a luxury player. The money they are going to blow to try to make Lincoln a regional luxury marque would have been better spent on Jag as a global lux brand. Despite Ford’s early mis-handling of Jaguar (Mondeo-based X-Type and frumpy styling), Jaguar has so much more undeveloped potential (new 3-Series competitor, XK-E Type, SUV/CUV models) on the world stage than a revived North American only Lincoln will ever have.
Lincoln outside the US is just a big ugly tank nobody would buy I mean if you could get a RWD V8 Ford sedan with all the fruit and decent handling why would you want a Lincoln it has none of that Jaguar was the luxury sporting brand and it was stupid to sell it The only Ford with any performance cachet is the Aussie Falcon but Ford NA is too stupid to let it out of the south Pacific.
Absolutely agree. Mullaley has done many things right but getting rid of JLR just when they make large profits and have good prospects for global growth was and is a huge mistake.
JLR may be making some profits now, but there were huge losses during Carmegeddon, when Ford was trying just to survive without going the bailout route or declaring bankruptcy.
Continuing with JLR would have also doomed Lincoln to failure – too much overlap. In fact, the balancing act that was the PAG has a lot to do with Lincolns current troubles. I’d hate to see an American company let a storied American luxury brand die only to replace it with a British nameplate.
I do think Ford should have found a way to keep rights to use the Jaguar platforms and engines they developed and possibly just sold the name rights to Tata.
I don’t know if Lincoln needs to be a worldwide brand to succeed. While China is temporarily the largest car market, the US is still the most important as it supports much higher transaction prices. There’s also no one saying that as the Lincoln line-up evolves that it can’t be sold in Europe and Asia.
So does anyone anywhere think that Lincoln is something better than a Ford with fancy trim? That was my impression 3 years ago and I don’t think any thing has changed since.
After driving a MKS around as a loaner, my opinion has changed significantly. The materials used on the interior were superb. And the cabin at night was very space ship like, similar feeling I got when I rode in my grandparent’s malaise town car when I was young. But the delayed throttle response drove me nuts (3.7L).
I’m surprised at all the positive comments about the MKS. The rental I had was terrible. Bad leather (only one step above Infiniti), bloated feel, poorly angled rear seats for car seats given such a big car, and just bad road feel accelerating out corners. It feels nothing like a 5 series. I really don’t see how they sell these to anyone under 55 years old and willing to test drive a few competitors.
With 119 days’ worth of inventory on hand, the MKS is not exactly flying off the dealer lots.
Ford is trying to turn Lincoln into the Apple iPad of luxury cars, the problem is that Licoln’s iconic model is still the gorgeous 60’s Continental convertible with the 4 suicide doors. That’s what you think of when you picture a Lincoln. They’d be better off starting fresh with a new brand.
I picture a 20-foot-long, 5000-lb Lincoln Continental Town Car with a faux-Royce grille.
Not a regrilled Ford.
Advice to Alan: Dump the Lincoln brand, use Continental as the new marque name (which actually used to be a separate BRAND within Lincoln, before the “Lincoln” Continental, they were just known as “Continental” Get rid of confusing MK model names, but use Mark for each model, for example, new C-segment Focus based sedan could be called the Continental Mark-C or Continental Mark-3. Revamped Lincoln MKZ would be Continental Mark-D or Continental Mark-4, Likewise, revamped E-segment MKS would be Continental Mark-E or Continental Mark-5. This would make a lot more sense then the current alpahbet soup that follows no rhyme or reason. Plus the Continental brand could be used globally in China and Europe.
I disagree on the Continental thing. The name has been dead for too long for many to remember it. If they are going to fix the brand, they need better dealerships and much better cars. A better naming scheme would help, as I am not sure the MK thing means much.
Considering I highly doubt there is even one profitable Lincoln dealership in existence that is quite a leap of faith to spend one million to see what the future brings. And it probably brings pause to a Ford dealer to spend 1.9 million for the same opportunity.
I agree with the comment that Ford’s money would have been better spent on Jaguar. The Lincoln brand is so trashed today it would be a miracle if Ford is able to resurrect it.
This thread reminds me of the one about Cadillac stores upgrading from a few days ago. It doesn’t matter what the store looks like if you don’t have vehicles people want to buy.
If I were a Lincoln dealer I’d take Ford’s money and be done with it.
“I highly doubt there is even one profitable Lincoln dealership in existence”
Possibly in Florida, Palm Springs, Arizona; or other retiree-laden areas.
There are plenty of oldsters with money to spend who loves them some big champagne colored Lincolns.
The reason I say I highly doubt there is even one profitable Lincoln dealership in existence is because back in the late 70’s Ford did a study to see which LM stores would likely survive as standalone Lincoln stores. The only store in the nation they thought would was the one I worked at which at the time was the largest Lincoln dealer in the country (just Lincoln, not LM). Since that time Lincoln sells about 25% of the cars they did then and now with killing Mercury there simply is not enough volume to make a Lincoln store profitable. The only way a Lincoln store could be profitable is if they had a large scale used car operation and that would be very difficult to do considering Lincoln is usually not on luxury car buyers radars.
Ford has completely destroyed Lincoln and IMO they will not be able to resurrect it.
I couldn’t speak for a standalone store, but my dealership, which is a Ford-Lincoln combo store, makes a lot of money with the Lincoln line. Of course, we are in south Florida, so, lots of old people to buy the cars, but we do solid business with the Lincoln line with boomers on the edge of retirement as well, and middle aged women who seem to love the MKX.
Continentals were always the highest end offerings in the Lincoln line-up. I think this name has much more cache than the Lincoln brand, which is now only thought of as a tarted-up Ford. Lincoln may be too much of a “damaged brand” in the words of Mr. Lutz, to try and resurrect. Continental would provide instant awareness as a luxury marque, but without the “Lincoln” brand baggage to overcome. The Continental brand might be able to play on the global stage more effectively than Lincoln too.
Isuzu still has its successful commercial truck division. Suzuki makes the esteemed Hayabusa, as well as engines for pretty much everything else. Mitsubishi has the iconic Evo. Mazda has the Miata.
Why do I mention these brands? Well, because despite their zombie-status in the US automotive market, they each still have something distinctive or unique or notable that they can be proud of.
Lincoln doesn’t, and hasn’t for a long time. IMO, they’re the ultimate zombie car company. Worrisome then, that it continues to walk the earth despite having its head (the Town Car) cut off.
Of the brands you list, Mazda is doing OK. While not like their heyday, Mazda is still pulling near-Subaru sales numbers. That’s good for almost 2% of the US Market.
The problem for Mazda is that they’re making a lot more models than Subaru, and sales are on a (slowly) declining trendline. They’re trying to sell “Zoom-Zoom”, when most customers actually want an Toyonda appliance of some sort, or else take a big step off the path and get a Subie which is so very *obviously* different and quirky that it actually works. The other problem is that “Zoom-Zoom” simply isn’t there when they’ve got what is essentially the exact *same* FWD pile of meh that Toyonda sells, but with a garish grille and unnecessary body sculpting.
But as noted, Mazda isn’t a lost cause – their product isn’t so dire, so their volumes aren’t terrible. Fix the grille and add lightness, and they may recover.
“Destination: Viability”
Better: “Destination: Relevance, Viability, and Profitability (or Bust).”
Else that or “Anaheim, Azusa and Cuuuu-ca-monga”
This could be:
A) Just the excuse some dealers need to leave the business, or..
B) A plan that backfires badly on Ford. Using Ford products as human shields for Lincoln detritus shows how bad off Lincoln really is.
This has the smell of an internal Lincoln Bailout Plan, at the dealers’ expense rather than the government’s.
Ford really didn’t do much hogging at the stimulus trough IIRC.
With the election coming next year, looks like a good chance to scoop a half bill of taxpayer $$ lying around somewhere and rehab those Linc dealers.
It has the Lincoln waterfall grille but with more European front and rear design cues reminiscent of Aston Martin and Volvo.
There is never going to be another American-style luxury car, is there?
What is American styling? If it’s like the retro muscular/macho look, I can see one of the big 3 giving it a go. The previous Chrysler 300 proved the buyers are there for something like that if it’s executed correctly and, I suppose, different enough from the competition.
I know a lot of TTACers aren’t believers in automotive national identity, but I meant “American-style” as a complete vehicular purpose, not just exterior styling. Currently, Cadillac and Lincoln only seem interested in either building “Mr.Euro” catered Bahn-Burners or high profit ES/RX ripoffs.
But since you brought it up, it does slightly piss me off that Lincoln would rather steal design cues from Aston and Volvo over creating their own style or taking inspiration from their past.
To be fair, everybody wants to be the guy selling the high-profit ES/RX clones.
Way too much trash talking above.
And not a whole lot of knowing behind it.
Enough of the badge engineering crap. Everybody does it and will continue. To talk trash about Ford doing it yet allowing Audi, Toyota and everybody else is simply showing you have no clothes.
I have now lived with an MKS ecoboost for nearly 30K miles. I still challenge anybody to give me the same car with the same lux for the 48K I paid.
You ain’t gonna be able to do so, so stop your throwing shit .
Enough of the Hyundia talk.
I spoke to an area Hyundai manager when it first came out. I begged him to explain why they would ONLY offer cooled seats in the driver seat only.
It was explained because of hardware under the seats. The could not cost effectively offer it in both seats.
Really? You have a luxury car with ONLY the driver getting his ass cooled????
Then why not AWD?
After all, this was Chicago and we really love winters here.
He was sorry but didn’t know. He said it would not be offered until the next generation.
No park assist.
No Sync.
Shall I go on?
Does anybody understand what some of us want in luxury?
The 3.5 ecoboost is simple THE best engine I have experienced.
I average 23 MPG, admittedly with a 75 percent highway drive.
Driving along IL I55, I average 26/27. You tell me…is that good along WITH 355 HP and 360 torque? Zero to 60 in 5.6 seconds?
Enough already of the bashing. Even though the MKS doesn’t sell well…that does NOT make it a bad car. It makes for dumb consumers and me a lucky fella with a unique car on the road.
I submit that anybody who speaks ill of the ecoboost MKS simply has not spent any real time in it.
“Really? You have a luxury car with ONLY the driver getting his ass cooled????
Then why not AWD?
After all, this was Chicago and we really love winters here.
…
Does anybody understand what some of us want in luxury?”
Yeah, I think I understand what you want. A bunch of “features” as cheap as possible.
I think you’re making the mistake of comparing cars based on their feature list, and assuming that “more lux” makes for a better car. Maybe for you it does. I care much more about fun, driver involvement, and interior quality. Lincoln gets zero points for the first two, partial credit for the third.
I don’t want my luxury car to have any cooled seats at all. I also don’t want it to have park assist. I just want a fun to drive car with premium interior materials and high-quality functional hardware. Anybody can toss gadgets at a car or build something a bit cheaper in order to compete on price. Neither of these approaches impresses me.
I also don’t want AWD, and regard FWD-based AWD like on the MKS to be an absolute deal breaker. The RWD-only nature of the Genesis is, to me, a big selling point. And yes, I live in a place where it snows; and often take extended trips in the Great Lakes area in the winter.
If they were the same price, I’d absolutely pick a 6MT G35 or CTS sedan over an MKS. Considering the Datsun and Cadillac are significantly less expensive than the Lincoln; it’s not even a close call. And remember, I have an irrational fondness for Lincoln, and want to buy one. They just make it really hard for me to give them my money.
I’m willing to bet that my preferences more accurately represent the population that will drive luxury car sales over the next 30 years.
try harder next time when reading.
Did I mention the ecoboost and its performance?
Look, you make tis easy listing some of the exact so called performance cars that talk buff but go limp in the cold facts.
Zero to 60 in 5.6 is no easy feet…as your chosen cars will show.
Bring some examples next time we can use.
Again, it’s not especially difficult to put down a bunch of power and get neck-snapping acceleration and low 0-60 times. It is an “easy feat” as demonstrated by the $30K Mustangs and WRXs that can match or surpass the acceleration of an MKS.
Much like a bunch of “cheap lux” features, I don’t regard “fast in a straight line” as desirable or impressive.
It’s much harder to build a car with a great balance of power and dynamics that causes it to shine on a twisty road. The MKS is not that car. Not even close.
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that your follow-up to “it has lots of stuff for cheap” is “it goes real fast between stoplights”.
I’m with bikegoesbaa and some other posters. Lincoln irritates me because I want so badly to love it. I’m a late twenties, married, college educated, reasonably highly paid professional living and working near a large metro area. In my lifetime, I’ve had a Mark VIII, a late nineties Continental, an LS, which I loved, and my dad was always a Lincoln guy as well. I love brand markers like the 1960 series slabside Conti, the late sixties early seventies Mark III, and even some of the older Conti’s and Mark series from the late seventies and eighties.
Point is, I love Lincoln so much as a solid American brand with an extremely potent cultural heritage in this country. It’s the heritage of Lincoln that fits my psyche more than anything else, the idea of driving an American marque that’s been building luxury machines for a hair shy of a hundred years, some of them residing in the pages of history as automotive art and architecture. But nothing strikes me like that when I walk into a Lincoln dealership. Nothing Lincoln has offered since the LS and the Mark VIII LSC has struck me like that. Nothing excites me.
There’s no two door luxury coupe. There’s no serious four door sports sedan. Hell, even the Acura MDX outclasses the MKX in almost every way. And the MKS? It’s a TAURUS. My wife says Lincolns are old man cars. Lincoln hasn’t put out anything strong enough for me to change her mind for years.
I just bought her a new Mini S. I’ll buy myself another car within the next two years. I want it to be a Lincoln. I’d drop 50 grand tomorrow if they had a car I wanted. I have brand loyalty to a brand that has nothing to offer me. I don’t think I’m alone here. Lincoln, wake up and realize who your buyers are and what they want. You have the cache, the heritage, the history, and the potential buyers. You just don’t have the cars.
FINALLY! Finally someone around here other than NulloModo who knows what the heck they’re talkin’ about. I too, have lived with my 2011 MKS Ecoboost for 10 months and 16000 miles and I couldn’t agree more with what you had to say, TrailerTrash. I can’t tell you how damn sick I am of people here and on other sites as well who continue to bash Lincoln. And Ford for that matter. These people are simply ill informed. They jump on the bash bandwagon and think it’s cool. Hey, everybody else seems to be doing it, so why not me? They’re just putting their ignorance out there for everyone to see. Like Jim Cramer from “Mad Money” said “In Alan Mullaly, I trust”. He will indeed bring the cred back to Lincoln. The quality is already there. The rest of the world just needs to catch up. The only thing I can think of to add to your post is that the MKS styling is gorgeous. And yes, I know it’s gonna get even better looking with the refresh coming in November. I just hope that it’s not so much prettier that I’ll regret not waiting. But as of now, I have no regrets. Not a single one. Because even though not many people who post here know what I got for the money, what matters is I know it. I know the quality (unsurpassed), I know the luxury appointments, the ride, the comfort, the quietness, the beast of an engine that is the Ecoboost, the outrageous technology, that breathtaking sound system, you name it. I could go on and on. And what a nice value for what you’re getting. I couldn’t have made a better choice. Beautiful Bourdeoux Reserve with camel interior and real olive ash wood. This is thee full size luxury sedan to own. Genesis? Give me a God damned break. Not on its best day could it touch MKS Ecoboost.
well…i have a few gripes, but sure I would with any car.
cup holders are for baby drinks.
trunk opening is a joke.
I really wish for a rear drie biased AWD.
But again, the MKS is an awesome effort and one I enjoy driving in traffic as much as the open road.
Don’t most people buy luxury cars based on a certain amount of cachet or snob-appeal rather than on value for money?
For whatever reason, Lincoln doesn’t resonate enough on luxury buyers’ minds, whether it’s because of poor marketing by Ford (who did blow the Jaguar opportunity), product that is not good enough, or not building something that meets the mainstream media’s criteria (is a magazine like Forbe’s mainstream?)of what a luxury automobile should be like.
I doubt that most people are that uninformed, especially in the internet age, about the luxury cars they’re buying.