Would you pay over $3000 for a 20 year old car? How about if it was a base 1991 Chevrolet Caprice in faded battleship grey with only 37,000 miles? As much as I love driving a big boat, owning an ancient mariner like this Caprice would have been no picnic. By the time you end up replacing all the worn items and catch up on the maintenance issues, you would be looking at nearly $4,000. It wasn’t a great deal. But with 95 dealers all looking at the same vehicle crossing the block, I got to see a lot worse.
A base 2000 Toyota ECHO with 112k went for over $4000 when you throw in the auction fee. Keep in mind we’re talking about a a ‘base’ model which means no power anything and an interior inspired by the Japanese version of Tonka. The dealer will likely try to get $1000 down and around $60 to $70 a week in payments. In today’s market that’s not bad. But waiting over a year to break even and risking non-payment, accidents and neglect is one hell of a risk.
Then there were the odometer issues. A 2004 Toyota Camry LE sounds like a good deal at $4700. Throw in 245,000 and a near $200 auction fee and you’re looking at a $5000 car wholesale by the time the vehicle is transported to the lot.
I’m willing to bet that the Camry is sent somewhere overseas. Toyota’s go for very stiff premiums in the Middle East and much of West Africa and one that is cosmetically nice will go for a higher value than one that has been hammered back to shape.
I can see this ‘American spec’ one easily following in those footsteps with a ‘revised’ odometer cluster that reflects it’s low wear. Also there was a 2009 Camry LE with 127k that went for $9900. Neither one of these Camrys had moonroofs or other preium options that would command these prices. Other than their nameplate, there was nothing that would have made a sane buyer bid these prices at an auction.
The 2002 Buick Regal that sold for $4600 was more of a mystery than the Camrys. Cloth interior. No roof. No premium sound or upscale options. Has the market completely lost it’s mind? The fact that it had a bit over 85k may have helped it’s cause. But geeze! This car would have sold for just $2800 a couple of years ago. I would be scared to finance it.
I did buy two low-end vehicles today. A 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee with leather, 1 owner, 130k, I bought for $1350. Then there was a 1997 Chevy Lumina, garage kept, 159k that went for $1050. Both of them were decent buys. But not nearly the shangri-la of a few years back when I could find good five year old vehicles for less than $5000. Today that $5,000 vehicle will be twice as old and half as good.
“Would you pay over $3000 for a 20 year old car? How about if it was a base 1991 Chevrolet Caprice in faded battleship grey with only 37,000 miles? As much as I love driving a big boat, owning an ancient mariner like this Caprice would have been no picnic. By the time you end up replacing all the worn items and catch up on the maintenance issues, you would be looking at nearly $4,000. It wasn’t a great deal.”
Sounds like a great deal to me, but I would be buying it for myself, which changes my POV. BTW, Steve, did it have the 305V8 or the trusty old 350 (non-LT1)? I made many a 305V8 cry for mercy in the box b-bodys back in the day. Damn those cars are far more quiet and stable at 90mph than they have a right to be.
Maybe those “roach-mobiles” were quiet at speed – they had to be, as they weighed 5 tons and two of that was sound-deadening material!
I never liked those Caprices – too ugly, an upside-down bathtub – even hated the name “Caprice”, always have – I revered the Impala name too much. However, the Buick Roadmaster did have an appeal all its own – probably owing to the fact that the narrow rear door glass rolled down all the way and the styling better reflected the vehicle’s size. There was also a local dealer who threw in a free car phone! That was big 20 years ago! Add to the fact they were “old school” technology as you alluded to. That did appeal to me, of course!
I still see the occasional old Fleetwood, Town Car, or Roadmaster for sale on eBay outfitted with a car phone. I’m half tempted to buy the sucker just for the kitch factor.
Ha ha! If you do, I want pictures! Lots of Roadmasters still running around down here, believe it or not.
Curb weight of a 1991 Caprice was 4,061 lbs, within a case of beer of a new base model Ford Taurus.
Aren’t all of those old built-in phones analog devices that are now totally useless?
My ’79 Impala wagon with a 350 was about 4000lb. That’s why they didn’t stand a chance against pre-1977’s in demolition derbies.
Considering how many of the Caprice sedans were fleet cars, low mileage ones must be extraordinarily hard to find, especially at a random auction as opposed to already trading between collectors. But for anything approaching real money, I would want mine to be a wagon.
“Damn those cars are far more quiet and stable at 90mph than they have a right to be.”
Indeed Dan. I took my ’91 wagon on another out-of-state trip last week. Third one in the past three months. Cruises nicely at 75-80 MPH, never heats up and still returns 22 MPG at that speed. You just can’t exceed 96 MPH when the computer-controlled governor kicks in. I was very fortunate on mine – I bought it three years ago for $1000. Last time I checked the KBB, it was at $2600.
Do the police versions of the Caprice have speed limiters? I’d think they don’t..
I spent more than that on an 89 model CK1500. And I’d spend $3000 on this if it had the 350 V8, a good tranny, and decent paint. Run forever.
Went to a dealer 2 years ago with my 2006 Mazda3 hatch, then, the car was 3 years old, 39k miles with factory warranty up to 50k and 4 years.
I could not get a good deal, the trade in amount was too low and no incentives on new car so I let it go and kept driving the car.
2 weeks ago, the same car was 5 years old, 66k miles, many more dings and a rear bumper damaged to the point it need replacement, on top of that, the engine fan was working none stop on high even in 20 degrees and the engine would heat up on idle, a problem I never got to fix.
This time around, that same dealer gave me more money than he gave me 3 years ago for the same car and an impossible deal on a new 3, just calculating what the old car cost me over 5 years (bought it new), it was $200 a month, the new car (lease) with 15k a year, $205 a month, it’s the S model hatch with 2.5 liter engine.
I too had a 2006 3 wagon, a GT model. It was a lemon after 6 months… I fell for the hype and got rid of a trusty old Integra. Now I an very happy with my Outback which was a top 3 pick fit me when I got the 3.
Anyways, your car could have out new for less than $500; new thermostat, pop a few dings, and a touch up job.
A friend of mine bought a 2006 Mazda 3 hatchback a couple years ago. I don’t know which trim level, but not a high enough one to have a sunroof. Its 2.3 liter engine was always troubled by check engine lights. They got to be such a usual occurance that a couple months ago, with 80K miles, she drove it home with the CEL lit even though the engine stumbled at idle. The next morning, something metal got loose in a combustion chamber and she needed a new engine. I used to think that the best reason not to buy a new Mazda 3 was the unfortunate restyling. Not so much now.
Two examples of how screwed up the used car market is right now.
– Back in March, 2009 I purchased an ’06 Dakota Quad Cab SLT from Car Max for around $13k (HO V8, leather, 4wd, heated leather). After driving it long enough to realize I hated driving it (November), we traded it in on a CPO ’07 Passat wagon for the wife and coming child. The dealer gave me $12,500 for the trade. Maintenance and fuel aside, the truck cost me $500 to drive for seven months. I expect to do something similar with the Passat if/when we trade it for a Mazda5 in the coming months.
– My wife’s step mother was driving a leased ’09 Camry until a few months ago when the dealer she leased it from came to her with “an offer she couldn’t refuse”. They let her out of the lease early without penalty and put her into a similarly equipped ’11 Camry for a lower monthly payment. Sounds weird, but when I looked at the offer in writing it was just that.
I know the market for CPO cars is hot right now, but that is ridiculous.
Would you pay over $3000 for a 20 year old car?
I would without even a second thought. Heck, that Caprice you described would be mighty tempting at $3k.
I’ve being tempted by a beautiful 87 Cutlass Supreme with t tops. Gold and tan interior. 307 V8. 109k miles and Asking 3900, which is just less than what I could get for my 98 TL with 133k miles. tempting!
Hell, I’d take an early 90’s split tailgate Civic (DX or SI) hatchback and gladly pay $3K for it, as long as it didn’t need too much done right away and was still looking decent.
I bought a then 9 YO Honda Civic hatchback that originally was going for $3K in 1992 but needed to have its timing belt replaced (not broken, but more than likely WAY overdue for no record of it having been replaced at just shy of 113K miles at the time) and had the water pump done while at it and the car DID need a new clutch and clutch cable and the rest was the cleanest the mechanic that looked it over had seen for the mileage.
I bought it for $1500, put an initial $882 into it and it lasted me 6 years and 70K miles with little else but routine maintenance outside of new CV boots, tires, brakes (front and rear) and at least a partial exhaust. Sold it to a couple in 1998 with a cracked rear bumper, bent rear frame rail and perhaps one or both side frame rails and leaking water inside but still mechanically sound after it’d been rear ended a year prior with nearly 183K miles on it for $500.
My truck now, I paid $3000 for it in 2006 and it was 14 years old then with 189K miles on it, in great running shape once my friend and I changed out the wires and plugs to eliminate a hesitation and it ran fine after that and it had a new clutch, front wheel bearings, front brakes and the Mazda sourced 5spd manual was flushed and refilled with new oil when I bought it from this good friend of mine and he’d had that done some 200 miles prior to my buying it at the time. Today, it has over 234K miles, the tranny has been recalcitrant since day one at times, still passes smog emissions testing, had good tires, brakes, runs great and if it had been in pristine condition, it might’ve sold at retail according to KBB if you can believe them for as much as $3600 about a month or so ago and I paid a whole $3K for it 5 years ago.
I bet I don’t get much more than $2K for it in its present condition and yes, it’s the top of the line STX extended cab with canopy and trailer towing package and is 2WD and has the 4.0L V6 (pushrod) and is almost 20 years old with a mostly dent free body with good paint.
And I bet you anything that with gas prices staying in the mid to upper $3 range at the moment and knowing it won’t stay there long before climbing back over $4 a Gal in many areas people are seeking more fuel efficient cars and anything that is worth anything is now commanding more than they did a year ago.
I cringe when I think about the way an insurance company will settle compared to the real world prices now being inflated.
Another reason insurance rates remain high is the high cost to replace vehicles after accident…
I honestly can’t believe the prices you’re paying at auction Steve. I always keep my eye on the used market up here Van-riot-couver BC, and prices are no way near the level you’re looking at. Maybe you should do your shopping north of the border. Southern BC is salt and rust free, and by the time you factor in a little extra for exchange rates and a car transporter ride down south – it’d still be cheaper than buying at your local auctions!
@ sinister.. Me too… I’m shocked..I do a little detailing,and car jockey work for the local used car guys. We are not allowed inside at the dealers auctions. That being said, one has a good idea what the prices are.
A rust free 2002 Regal 85k = 130 klms…2000 max, on the wholesale market. If you could find a rust free 91 Caprice $1000…maybe.
The world sure has changed. Even 10 years ago the American used cars were going for %40 less than ours.
It’s not as easy as that to import a car into the US. The speedometer must be changed so that MPH is the major scale, which can be a hassle, especially for an older car. Also, you must have paperwork from the manufacturer that says the car meets all US requirements. (It’s much easier to import to Canada from the US)
I know, I imported a NAFTA built Volvo (Nova Scotia) and customs checked the speedo at the border and reviewed all the paperwork before letting me go. The fuel gauge is still in liters though, they were not interested in that.
@ detlump….It may be easier to import to Canada from the US. I gave a lot of thought to bringing a Mustang convert up from the Southern US.
If you add up all the numbers, I couldn’t see the advantage.
YMMV
I imported a Canada spec Pontiac into the US with zero issues. The cluster didn’t need to change, but the MPH was in the smaller numbers. GM did have to provide a letter saying it met US DOT requirements, but final assembly was in Michigan and it was built for the “North American” market so no issues.
Taking vehicles into Canada is another story all together. New cars are still quite a bit cheaper south of the border and it’s not easy to take advantage of the strong loonie and buy south of the border. The incentive is there so people are doing it, but from what I’ve heard, it’s not easy.
Given that my mother is usually a “10 year” car owner, I wonder if she shouldn’t consider selling her 2003 Toyota Corolla LE (82k, leather, sunroof, blah, blah) a little earlier to buy her last car (at 67 years old, she knows the next car she gets will be her last). With prices for used cars being what they are, curious what she could realistically sell the little box for…
In a fit of raging curiosity I have repeatedly pondered the lack of private auto/truck selling hereabouts.
Such a meager number of vehicles appearing in various venues; printed etc. and an obvious lack of along-side-the-road parked cars with signage to inform passers-by the unit is for sale.
It seems to this shanty dweller that folks are ridding themselves of “old iron” via various dealers or others of a re-selling retail nature.
Or just saving their older vehicles as a back-up unit for a new or used newly-acquired transpo. unit.
Of course, there IS the local custom of using the older vehicle in an artistic manner via the lawn ornament custom.
Such bizarre out-of-the-norm customs and trends here atop the Ozark Plateau.
Deep and dark must be the secrets within the hollers amongst the hills hither, yon and a few thithers.
Every couple months, I check the used car websites for the current value of my ’05 Scion xB, now with 44k. And every time I look, it creeps UP a couple hundred dollars.
It’s getting mighty close to $10k on trade in value. If this keeps up, I might buy a ’12 Soul.
Why is it then my 2009 Accord coupe one owner all options 52,000 miles is only worth $11,000 in trade at the dealers in my area? The car is perfect and apparently worthless to Toyota or Honda in trade.
I made reasonable cash offers at 3 Toyota dealers, and ended up many thousands apart. I would like to buy a new 4Runner.
Any ideas out there?
Advertise it on Craigslist but for an area that’s near a sea port, or a metropolis. Don’t take cashier’s checks because even if they are accepted by the bank, they can bounce 3 days later when the system realizes they are fake. That’s the famous scam of “my agent will pay you by check your full asking price plus some extra which I would like you to refund to him in cash because I owe him that money.” Good luck.
uncleAl…The big dealers, want to make big bucks,on every car they sell. You have already ate the big hit. Keep the Accord for a couple of more years. Spead out the deprec.
Does this mean that I’ll be able to sell my 2010 Accent GS in 2015 for as much as I paid for it or is this just a short-term bubble caused by Cash For Clunkers ridding the market of still running good cars?
It isn’t C4C that is creating this. It is only selling 10 million cars in stead of 18 million for a few years.
Steve, you’re onto the whole thing about clean Toyotas, funny odometers, and funny money. My friend, no, let’s say acquaintance, just sold his Rav 4 on Craigslist, 45K miles, good chunk of change, all paid in cash. The car was immediately sent to a ship terminal and left the country. Except that the digital odometer was tweaked – it had 65K miles. I now regularly see in searches on cars.com – there would be a slew of ordinary-priced cars, and then a real “gem” with unusually low miles, or unusually low price. Often times from a Brooklyn dealer. Buyer beware, there are people tweaking the digital odometer readings on a regular basis.
A base 2000 Toyota ECHO with 112k went for over $4000 when you throw in the auction fee.
You can’t be serious… I’ve got an ’00 VW Passat GLS, 1.8T with sunroof, 92K, garage kept and its KBB is only $3800 (private party sale). Sure its got the normal VW issues (interior is peeling), but it runs fine and thus has got to be worth more then an base Echo!
KBB is waaaaaaay off when it comes to current used car values. Look for what comparable cars are selling for on AutoTrader.
JMII…hate to say it, but a base Toyota of the same vintage will more than likely easily hold it’s value above a VW. As a private owner, you might want/think that your Passat is worth more (and new, it most certainly was), but depreciation, even in today’s whacked-out used car market, is a bear…
FWIW, just sold my 2006 Ford Fusion SE, with manual and 115k on the odo for nearly $1500 MORE than I would have been able to fetch for it last year. Crazy times…hence why I’m trying to find a nice way to break into conversation with my mom about her ’03 Corolla…probably never be a better time to attempt to sell a car…
Two words: dollar devaluation.
This is why we see the prices increasing on many things. We are now a global economy, and the highest bidder wins. If there is a demand offshore for good used cars from our country, guess what? THEY will be setting the prices, not us. And our fiat currency is only backed by, um, uh, oh yeah, the confidence that people/countries have in it.
Welcome to the “new” America! Where a half-gallon of ice cream is now 1.5 quarts . . .
Just all the more reasons to keep my old trusty Accord running for another 100k miles. Sure, I might be able to get more for it on trade, but since I tend to buy used the replacement is going to cost additionally that much or more.
This all reminds me of the housing bubble (remember that)?? I kept telling my retired parents to sell the house, downsize and bank the money. Their response was that they had to live somewhere and everything was expensive no matter the size so who cares if they got an extra $50-100k out of the house. Since they bought ages ago, pre-boom, it was just paper wealth anyway.
My 2001 Accord has 140K and the first 5 years were spent in the harsh winters of New York. Now that it’s in Cali I expect it to run at least another 100K. But I can’t imagine paying for an older American car like that Caprice; I’ve heard nothing but horror stories on maintenance from people trying to stay domestic in the face of inferior manufacturing. But the Jeep sounds like you got a good deal.
The price of the ECHO doesn’t surprise me. People are poorer these days and the banks don’e lend like they used to, but the basic need for transportation in this country doesn’t change.
If you’re desperate to buy a beater to work your three crappy jobs (or look for a nonexistent crappy job), you’re going to default to established reliability, and a used Toyota is where it’s at in that department.
I think the market is anticipating that the economy is gonna get worse and new car sales will plummet so used car prices will keep on going up, especially economy, reliable cars like Toyotas and Hondas.