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In the battle for market share, Detroit is making something of a comeback. After decades of decline, the unprecedented taxpayer investment in Detroit seems to be yielding dividends in the form of solidifying signs of recovery. Of course, these firms still have a long ways to go before they’re done reversing their long declines, and the turnaround has doubtless been fueled by temporary phenomena like the Toyota recall and the Japanese tsunami. Still, these are some of the first big-picture signs of a serious change in fortunes for Detroit, and deserve the attention of market watchers (graphs can be found in the gallery after the jump, along with a graph of June and Y-T-D market share).
| A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I | J | K | L | M | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | |||||||||||||
| 2 | |||||||||||||
| 3 | Automaker | Jun ’11 | Jun ’11 Share | Jun’10 | Jun’10 Share | YTD ’11 | YTD ’11 Share | YTD ’10 | YTD ’10 Share | YTD share diff | JUN share diff | ||
| 4 | BMW Group | 26,908 | 2.55% | 23,375 | 2.38% | 143,784 | 2.27% | 121,840 | 2.17% | 0.10% | 0.18% | BMW Group | |
| 5 | Chrysler Group | 120,394 | 11.43% | 92,482 | 9.40% | 639,932 | 10.10% | 527,219 | 9.39% | 0.71% | 2.03% | Chrysler Group | |
| 6 | Daimler | 23,037 | 2.19% | 19,580 | 1.99% | 120,745 | 1.91% | 110,355 | 1.97% | -0.06% | 0.20% | Daimler | |
| 7 | Ford | 193,415 | 18.36% | 175,690 | 17.86% | 1,069,736 | 16.89% | 981,352 | 17.48% | -0.59% | 0.50% | Ford | |
| 8 | General Motors | 215,335 | 20.44% | 194,716 | 19.79% | 1,261,610 | 19.92% | 1,077,601 | 19.19% | 0.73% | 0.65% | General Motors | |
| 9 | Honda | 83,892 | 7.96% | 106,627 | 10.84% | 607,442 | 9.59% | 593,909 | 10.58% | -0.99% | -2.87% | Honda | |
| 10 | Hyundai Group | 104,253 | 9.90% | 83,111 | 8.45% | 567,901 | 8.97% | 425,851 | 7.58% | 1.38% | 1.45% | Hyundai Group | |
| 11 | JLR | 4,541 | 0.43% | 4,408 | 0.45% | 23,702 | 0.37% | 20,815 | 0.37% | 0.00% | -0.02% | Jaguar Land Rover | |
| 12 | Maserati | 189 | 0.02% | 180 | 0.02% | 1,097 | 0.02% | 912 | 0.02% | 0.00% | -0.00% | Maserati | |
| 13 | Mazda | 19,307 | 1.83% | 18,238 | 1.85% | 122,379 | 1.93% | 115,719 | 2.06% | -0.13% | -0.02% | Mazda | |
| 14 | Mitsubishi | 8,299 | 0.79% | 4,198 | 0.43% | 44,115 | 0.70% | 26,490 | 0.47% | 0.22% | 0.36% | Mitsubishi | |
| 15 | Nissan | 71,940 | 6.83% | 64,570 | 6.56% | 504,973 | 7.97% | 440,332 | 7.84% | 0.13% | 0.27% | Nissan | |
| 16 | Porsche | 2,546 | 0.24% | 2,141 | 0.22% | 15,542 | 0.25% | 10,983 | 0.20% | 0.05% | 0.02% | Porsche | |
| 17 | Saab | 323 | 0.03% | 216 | 0.02% | 3,471 | 0.05% | 738 | 0.01% | 0.04% | 0.01% | Saab | |
| 18 | Subaru | 19,794 | 1.88% | 21,601 | 2.20% | 132,049 | 2.08% | 125,960 | 2.24% | -0.16% | -0.32% | Subaru | |
| 19 | Suzuki | 2,278 | 0.22% | 2,035 | 0.21% | 13,402 | 0.21% | 11,549 | 0.21% | 0.01% | 0.01% | Suzuki | |
| 20 | Toyota | 110,937 | 10.53% | 140,604 | 14.29% | 812,788 | 12.83% | 846,542 | 15.08% | -2.24% | -3.76% | Toyota | |
| 21 | Volkswagen | 38,673 | 3.67% | 29,768 | 3.03% | 210,877 | 3.33% | 175,140 | 3.12% | 0.21% | 0.65% | Volkswagen | |
| 22 | Volvo | 7,100 | 0.67% | – | 36,304 | 0.57% | – | Volvo | |||||
| 23 | Other | 244 | 0.02% | 241 | 0.02% | 1,464 | 0.02% | 1,445 | 0.03% | -3.16% | -6.34% | JP | |
| 24 | TOTAL | 1,053,405 | 983,781 | 6,333,313 | 5,614,752 |
66 Comments on “Market Share In The First Half Of 2011...”
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Why did you put the pie chart in alphabetical order?
Edward likes to bless us with a little zanieness from time to time. Consider yourself lucky, Mr. Farago would have made you make your own damn chart.
Anybody catch this story on GM inventories being at pre-bailout levels?
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/05/uh-oh-gm-backlog-looking-a-lot-like-2008/
Sorry to threadjack. Do we have a tips line here somewhere?
@Contrarian: We went through this last week. Duly noted and dissected. The site you reference is appropriately named.
The government dumps many tens of billions into GM, Ford, and Chrysler, then launches a vicious recall attack on the Japanese. Then, a cash for clunkers, another money handout is launched. The government even looks the other way from clear safety issues in some Ford transmissions and My Ford. Detroit makes a few billion. Detroit sells a few more cars to fleets, people with low credit scores, and those loyal to the union cause.
The rest of America avoids third class Detroit vehicles like the plague. Even JD Powers has spilled the beans on Detroit quality.
Ra ra ra. Time for people still living in Detroit to move to the west or east coast before the bottom falls out in Detroit. All it will take is a little european bond crisis, which is on the way, and Detroit will be something your kids read about in the history books.
Jimmy, in spite of the UAW bailout, GM and Ford have introduced some new models capable of competing in the retail market. Saw a Focus SE sedan in traffic yesterday and was struck with how it no longer looks cheap. The Chevrolet Cruze is a big improvement over the Cobalt too. It’s hard to find an unreliable mass-market car today and replacement parts tend to be inexpensive for domestic brands. I wish I could select the deduct 300 lbs and section out 2 inches of height below the beltline option, but the domestic brand new cars are pretty good right now.
The Detroit metro area isn’t hopeless. Has the typical dysfunctional urban black hole in the center surrounded by relatively clean and safe suburbs. Despite the song, Telegraph Road in Oakland County looks a lot like Preston Road in North Dallas. SE Michigan also has good universities and people who know how to build stuff. More flexible union work rules would probably help a lot. I prefer hot weather over cold weather, but respect people who disagree.
The Chevrolet Cobalt was a big improvement over the Cavalier too. How did that turn out?
wsn –
The Cavalier was such a POS that the Cobalt could have been twice as good and it still might not have been a top tier product. The Cruze, however, is certainly a competitor on quality instead of just price.
The domestics have finally gotten the message that it isn’t enough to just build a somewhat competitive car and then compete by stacking cash on the hood – you have to continually improve that vehicle, listen to customers, add features, keep the styling current, and build it to a reliability standard that isn’t below the market standard.
The Cobalt was a big improvement over the Cavalier, and the Cruze is a big improvement over the Cobalt, so GM is finally in a competitive space. The current Malibu was a major jump from the previous, which was a big jump from the one before that. I look forward to seeing how the next Malibu fares (though I still hate the taillights).
— “The Cavalier was such a POS that the Cobalt could have been twice as good and it still might not have been a top tier product.”
That’s true. But in the same way, how could say Cruze is good enough, even if it’s 3x better than a Cavalier?
— “The domestics have finally gotten the message that it isn’t enough to just build a somewhat competitive car and then compete by stacking cash on the hood”
Just look at the bailout of GM, I think the message is pretty clear that you can continue to stack taxpayer’s cash on the hood.
If the old saying holds true that lessons can only be learned the hard way, then the GM management and the UAW workers certainly didn’t learn any lesson. It’s the stock and bond holders that should remember never put investment money in a unionized cooperation.
wsn –
I don’t know if there ever is a ‘good enough’ the goal should always be continued improvement, which it seems that Detroit has finally signed on for. I will say that the Cruze is now competitive, and certainly worth a test drive for anyone shopping in the segment.
GM has done a pretty good job of cutting back on incentives. The buying public expects a certain amount of rebate cash or special financing, going cold turkey on incentive spending would drive too many people away. What GM, Ford, and now even Chrysler are managing to do is increase the quality and dependability of the cars so that higher prices can be reasonably asked and less incentives have to be offered. Nothing changes overnight, so as long as incentive spending continues to go down more or less while the quality of vehicles goes up, things are going in the right direction and the future looks rosy.
As far as investing goes, I’ll have to sit that debate out, I don’t have any interest in playing the stock market. I do think that it isn’t necessarily a bad thing though if a company decides to share more profits with employees instead of investors. Sure, there is some corruption and waste in the UAW, and some of their policies are bad for Detroit. At the same time though, I’ve never been able to wrap my head around how people vilify union and government employees for earning a solid wage with better benefits and retirement than the general private sector. If I were an hourly or salaried private sector employee without a solid healthcare or pension plan I’d be more angry at the CEO making 500x the wages of the average worker and the hundreds of millions paid in dividends to stockholders instead of being upset at those who are still managing to find secure work with a healthcare plan that won’t bankrupt the family if a serious illness ever arises and a guaranteed pension when it comes time to retire.
jimmyy,
Please explain why Toyota’s Scion was rated below the Detroit brands by JD Power. JD Power rated the HHR, Tahoe, Escalade, Taurus, F-150, Challenger and Chrysler T/C as highest among competitors in their classes for IQ. Can you also explain why Consumer Reports listed 3 Toyotas, 1 Honda and zero Detroit cars as “Stuck In Reverse” for vehicles that fell the farthest in test scores. They also said the Honda Crosstour and CR-Z “Didn’t live up to expectations”.
I’m not denying that Honda and Toyota make very good cars but clearly they are getting lazy just like Detroit did years ago. You can’t deny that the Detroit cars are getting much better, your bible Consumer Reports even say’s so along with recommending many of them.
I don’t recall Ford being bailed out as you imply but I do know they received the same low interest loans that Nissan did. I don’t recall Nissan being bailed out or being part of the Detroit 3.
Nissan likely wouldn’t be in business today had they not been bought out by Renault – so in a way Nissan was bailed out by the French taxpayer…
JD Power rated the HHR…as highest among competitors in their classes for IQ.
The IQS is conducted at the 90 day mark and is not just a reliability survey. The IQS score is weighted about 50/50 between reliability and design — it doesn’t have to break in order for it to be a “problem” that goes against the scoring. The Xb got low design scores in the IQS, and the low design scores didn’t offset the fact that it led the class with the highest “mechanical quality” (reliability) score among this group, or that it beat the Chevy in two of three other mechanical quality scoring subcategories:
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-category/compact-multi-purpose-vehicle%20/sortcolumn-0/ascending/page-1/#page-anchor
Compare that to the Vehicle Dependability Survey, which tests three-year old cars and does not include scoring for design, and the Scion Xb won the category. The HHR got a bottom score on that survey. (It won two of five stars; JD Power doesn’t give one-star scores.):
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/compact-multi-purpose-vehicle/
JD Power rated the…Challenger as highest among competitors in their classes for IQ.
Again, another design score winner. In mechanical quality, the Challenger got a bottom 2-star rating. And there were no Scions or Toyotas in its class — its competition was the Mustang, Camaro, Eclipse and Genesis Coupe.
JD Power rated the…Chrysler T/C as highest among competitors in their classes for IQ
Design explains a lot of this one, too. What’s odd about this one is the huge disparity between the Town and Country and the Caravan. The Chrysler version got 5 out of 5 for mechanical quality (same as the Sienna), while the Dodge got a bottom ranking of 2. Whether they can explain this difference, I don’t know.
JD Power rated the…F-150 as highest among competitors in their classes for IQ.
The F-150 and Tundra got near-identical reliability scores. The differentiation in the ranking was due to the Ford’s design.
I’ll let you look up the rest, but there is a pattern here. Still, it’s hard to deny that the domestics are improving; however, let’s remember what the IQS score is measuring.
Since Scion quality was ranked poorly, I would avoid that one. Consumer Reports and JD Powers counts the number of problems reported by the owners, then published the results. Since Scion owmners are reporting problems, don’t buy. Simple. I would not buy a Scion until they show high quality rankings for a number of years. Why would you take a chance?
However, Toyota, Honda, Lexus, and Acura usually rank very well, so stick with those. Toyota took a hit with the bogus recall, then bounced right back, so that one is safe.
Consumer Reports does a used car evaluation once or twice a year. I find that study very usefull. Specifically, very few Detroit products make the recommended used car list. That result speaks volumes. If the current trend continues, very few Detroit vehicles from today will make the Consumer Reports used car recommended list in several years.
jimmyy,
You don’t get it do you. You don’t understand that Scion is a Toyota. You don’t know how JD Power ranks the Scion brand for the 3 year study? You don’t see the inconsistencies in these studies, not only in the 90 day vs 3 year but CR vs JD Power?
According to JD Power I should by a Linclon. Who makes that, Honda or Toyota?
•Among individual nameplates, Lincoln ranks highest in vehicle dependability with a score of 101 PP100. It is followed in the rankings by Lexus (109 PP100) and Jaguar (112 PP 100). Rounding out the top five nameplates in vehicle dependability are Porsche (114 PP100) and Toyota (122 PP100).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2011-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Results/page-2/
@ loser…Dude, do yourself a favor…Don’t feed the troll.
You don’t know how JD Power ranks the Scion brand for the 3 year study?
As I showed you, the Scion Xb led its category in the VDS, while the HHR finished at the bottom. But it seems that you want to ignore that.
You don’t see the inconsistencies in these studies
I just showed you that the 90-day IQS study isn’t just about reliability, while the 3-year VDS focuses only on reliability.
And as it turns out, the vehicles on your list that I reviewed all gained their extra scoring in the IQS based upon design, not reliability. I guess that you want to ignore that, too.
@ mikey,
You are correct and I know better. Like they say “Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, then beat you with experience.”
Pch101,
I didn’t read what you posted. Yes, I understand the difference between the 90 day and 3 year but your buddy jimmyy doesn’t. I’m just using the same cherry picking method he does.
I didn’t read what you posted.
Aw, shucks. That’s make me so happy that I took the time to answer your question.
I didn’t read what you posted.
Not unexpected from an import basher.
wsn,
When have I bashed imports?
First off, Toyota and Honda benefitted the most from CFC.
2nd, many of Toyota’s products are not really competitive compared to its competition, including the domestics, in particular, the Corolla and Yaris.
3rd, pretty much all of Toyota’s lineup is BORING.
4th, past performance on the reliability reports isn’t an indication of future performance, esp. when it comes to new models.
5th, it’s not like Toyota or Honda haven;t had their issue with regard to recalls, etc. – most notably class action lawsuits for engine sludge for Toyota and prematurely failing transmissons for Honda.
6th, this attack on the domestics is just LAME; btw, even conservative papers like the WSJ, NY Post, etc. have positive reviews on the Focus, Fiesta, Cruze, etc.
….4th, past performance on the reliability reports isn’t an indication of future performance, esp. when it comes to new models…
jimmyy/jj’s favorite publication, Consumer Reports, does in fact use past performance to judge whether a new model will prove reliable if the brand has solid across the board reliability. Toyota used to be given that pass, until several of its models turned out to have subpar reliability. Honda and Subaru are the only others that share such a luxury, unless the toaster testers have changed their tune. To be fair, Toyota belted out red dot specials for almost as long as there were red dots, so I can’t be too hard on the toaster guys, or even Toyota for that matter. Boring, yes. Rust issues, yes depending on where you live. But they were always reliable. BTW, mikey is right…this troll has been too well fed lately. Time will tell if today’s highest rated domestics will make it into the “hallowed” halls of CR’s highest ranked used cars…
past performance on the reliability reports isn’t an indication of future performance
Right. I’m sure that you would have no problems with a violent ex-con living in the house next door, since past performance provides absolutely no indication of future performance. (“Sure, honey, he used to molest kids and bury them in the yard, but that has nothing to do with whether he’ll do it again…”
I don’t believe that ANY manufacturer should get a “pass” for a new model from Consumer Reports or any other rating agency. And that includes Honda and Subaru. Each new model should receive a rating based on its actual performance, and no predictions if it’s a brand-new model.
I found a spatula in Mart-Wal proclaiming to have been made in the USA.
I told several nearby denizens of this region of my find.
I doubt if any of them even knew what a map is let alone of being capable of finding the USA upon it though the simple-minded-at-best buffoons could likely recall from memory every sponsor’s decal slathered upon their favorite NASCAR driver’s vehicle.
And as proof of their intense patriotic fervor one merely has to seek out the largest piles of used fireworks left in the street awaiting a downpour to send into the gutter then, perhaps, ultimately into nearby creeks.
Sniff.
“We’re number one!!!!”
Perhaps.
In sheer inane idiocy, laziness and excess lard-ladenness.
Reporting from atop the Ozark Plateau.
Still shanty-ensconced.
Disgruntled Old Coot.
Greetings to all the ships at sea.
…simple-minded-at-best buffoons could likely recall from memory every sponsor’s decal slathered upon their favorite NASCAR driver’s vehicle…
And the morons who spew baseball stats are any better? Their belly size seems to be the same. Maybe NASCAR fans here in the NE are different than those you know but please spare us the useless stereotyping. And since you are so smart, please tell me where is the Mart-Wal store you are talking about? This ignorant fan of Mark Martin (Sponsors from the recent past:Go Daddy, Viagra, Valvoline…oh, my mind is drawing blanks ….) would like to know.
Reviews like this aren’t going to help Honda.
I’m in the market for a car. Not sure if it will be new or not, but It’s likely that it will be a Honda or Toyota. GM/Ford may currently put out a great product(as does Korea), but what about residual value 5-7 years from now? Will it translate into higher resale values.
Will people still be flocking to buy Honda/Toyota because of their reliabilty or PERCEIVED reliability?
If either is the case, then I benefit.
http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2011/06/why_the_2012_honda_civic_disappoints.html?p1=Upbox_links
Unlike GM, Honda’s reputation is not built upon media hype. Say whatever you want, but I have never heard any concrete complaint about the reliability of the Civic in the past several years.
So, no, this review won’t hurt Honda even slightly.
Every left wing democratic controlled media outlet is attempting to make the Detroit bailout a success. Otherwise, Obama will just be another one of those unemployed black males. So, the media is carrying the water for the unions and Obama. The media is pumping Detroit trash while dissing foreign makers. Bottom line is only trust Consumer Reports and JD Powers. Every other publication has either a political agenda, or is taking advertising money from Detroit. The recent Car and Driver 2012 Focus retest was a disgrace. They decided to give the Focus a top rating even though the transmission has real issues. For most people, a shakey transmission is an absolute deal killer. Shame on Car and Driver. Car and driver quote on the Focus transmission: ” We now find ourselves writing again about the lethargic starts, clunking noises, slow upshifts, and harried downshifts of Ford’s dual-clutch automatic.”
If Honda or Toyota was shipping garbage transmissions, I am sure they would be taken to the wood shed. I wonder how much arm twisting Ford applied to make this happen. Bottom line, again, only trust Consumer Reports and JD Powers.
@wsn, the review concludes that “it’ll take several generations of Hyundais, Chevys, and Fords for Honda loyalists to defect. The Civic, as always, is a dead reliable and affordable compact, but there are too many stronger players now to recommend a Honda that feels half-baked.”
So it’s not saying lots of Civic buyers will defect, just that Honda only made a half-hearted effort this time. (Are they reusing the Camry taillights?)
Every left wing democratic controlled media outlet is attempting to make the Detroit bailout a success. Otherwise, Obama will just be another one of those unemployed black males.
Racism is getting to be popular around here. First the whole Japanese slur thing, and now this.
Bailout or not, the quality of Detroit is improving, at least to a point. The domestic fans are overselling it (they always do), but the surveys are starting to support that position, so it isn’t all hype. Ignoring the results just because you hold a grudge against a black president is just as ridiculous as is the fanboyism that comes from the other side.
@PCH101
The term “jap” appeared in the comments section over at Autoblog this weekend. The thread was for the reveal of the new Camry. Coincidence? Conspriacy? Did some radio show host/newspaper editorial/talking head use it and people are echoing it? 4channers looking for lulz? The term had never come up in this blog in the year or so that I’ve been frequenting it, until this weekend. It seems odd.
And disregard anything jimmyy/jj99 says. He isn’t worth the effort.
mazda3er, you Detroiters have always ignored what people on the coasts had to say about Detroit products. That is why you are in your current situation.
The bottom line: When Detroit reliability and quality really matches Honda and Toyota, JD Powers and Consumer Reports will show Detroit brands frequently holding the top spots in rankings. Then, people on the coasts, who are usually not car experts, will buy lots of Detroit products, assuming the pricing is fair.
Detroit’s current strategy: It does not matter if you make a quality product. It only matters that marketing efforts make people think you make a quality product.
What Detroit’s strategy should be: To usually hold top short term and long term quality and reliability rankings in Consumer Reports and JD Powers.
Unfortunately, Detroit is waisting money on building things like My Ford and On Star instead of beating the foreign automakers on quality and reliability.
Did some radio show host/newspaper editorial/talking head use it and people are echoing it?
Perhaps some folks watched “The Pacific” and didn’t realize that it was a (very good) historical drama, not a model for how people should speak to or about Japanese people in 2011.
mazda3er, you Detroiters have always ignored what people on the coasts had to say about Detroit products.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but I have my doubts that a hardcore Detroit fanboy would choose a handle that serves as an homage to the Mazda 3. (Last time I checked, those were Japanese-designed cars, built in Japan.)
pch, I live on the west and east coast. I know the opinions of people on the coasts, and I can count the number of people that share upbeat opinions of Detroit metal on my hands. That is why I suggest most on this site are associated with Detroit. I might be wrong, but that is my experience.
@jimmyy
You’re SO FUNNY!!!
Question for you: Is a phonetically-spelled Mazda3 with the Old Man of the Mountain road sign for a non-existent New Hampshire road from Detroit?
Have a happy rest of the 4th!
Give me a break – even right-wing publications like the WSJ and the NY Post really like the Focus, Cruze, etc.
And there have been many reviews which have been less than impressed by the new Civic.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110701/CARREVIEWS/110709999
While the Civic will still sell well, it will be competing in the pack to get the average buyer.
Most troubling tho, is that Honda is losing its fanboy base – go to numerous Honda/Acura forums and posters are buying other brands.
@ wsn The Si has transmission problems and the Hybrid has battery issues that a recall only worsens.
‘Cept for the poor performance of the Civic Hybrid. Battery failures were way too common so Honda recalled the cars for reprogramming. That killed the mileage to the point where its real world mileage was but a few mpg from a regular version. There were transmission issues with the hybrid Civic and second generation Insight as well. All this is surprising because Honda was always known for the solidity of its engineering, especially regarding its drivetrains. So, yes, there have been some problems at Honda. Also, look at Michael Karesh’s Acura that was tested in these pages. Fit and finish was supbar, and the dash/door fit was so poor it would make any union basher proud. At the car show, most of the Acuras sported marginal bodywork. So, all is not perfect in Honda land either.
I’ve sat in several new Civics at the dealer, but have not driven one yet. What I’ve noticed is that the exterior build quality – particularly the fit of the doors on the sedan – is improved over that of the last generation.
Where it falls down is the interior. The dashboard materials look cheap (although the fit of the various parts is quite good), and the carpeting is a major disappointment in both texture and appearance. The color selection is also a disappointment, especially compared to what Ford is offering on the Focus. Some exterior chrome would also help.
Judging by the actual reviews, Honda went for increased refinement in the driving experience, and largely succeeded, although at the expense of driving excitement. Like it or not, most of the buying public will approve. The posters on this site are not representative of typical car buyers in that regard.
It’s obvious that this Civic is not as ambitious an effort as the Cruze, Focus and Elantra. And, even worse, the new model, despite the improvements in exterior build quality, manages to look more “down market” than the Focus, Cruze and Elantra. The Civic looks like an economy car, while the Focus could pass for a junior-edition Audi. Which is odd, given that a big reason for the Civic’s success over the years has been that it was a small, economical car that never felt or looked like a cheap car.
If any automaker could get by with a relatively modest update in this segment, it was Honda. Honda’s reputation will carry the new version for a couple of years. With Ford, Hyundai and even GM swinging for the fences, however, the next-generation Civic had better be impressive.
I’ve noticed that both local dealers are sold out of the sedan versions, and only have two coupes on the lot. Any sales decline with the Civic is being caused by a shortage of cars, at least in this area.
Interesting that the underwhelming Honda review comes from Boston, home of jj99.
The increase in domestic share makes sense to me. Twenty years ago, if you were comparing a brand new 1992 Civic to a Cavalier, it would be immediately obvious that the Cavalier wasn’t in the same class.
Today if you compare a 2012 Civic to a Cruze, Focus, or Elantra you may well decide that the Civic is the lesser car. True Delta has shown us that initial quality is not much different between mainstream brands, so reliability shouldn’t be a problem, at least to start with.
Long term durability is still a question, but both Imports and Domestics have had their share of problems in this regard lately. Residual value (or more importantly, ownership cost) is also a question mark, but nobody has a crystal ball – it is entirely possible that people won’t want to pay a premium for the decontented Civic in 3 years time.
This is golden opportunity for the Domestics (and Hyundai) to make some long term gains – but it is important to make sure these new customers have a great ownership experience.
Another thing in the domestic’s favour is the fact that the Japanese don’t really seem to consider them a credible threat yet…
@PenguinBoy, “Another thing in the domestic’s favour is the fact that the Japanese don’t really seem to consider them a credible threat yet …”
That indeed would be ironic after the domestics’ over-confidence in the 1970s and 1980s …
+ 1
Anyone who came of age automotively in the nineties has to be shocked by this. In the nineties you could argue whether an Accord was better than a Camry or if a Civic was better than a Corolla, but there was no debate that these 4 models were miles ahead of the competition. Now there are so many legitimate contenders. We may be entering a golden age of mid-size and compact cars.
Yeah!!! The golden age of front drive slush box appliances has finally arrived. Time to smash the piggy bank.
@Pig_Iron, what is this “slush box” you speak of? Do you actually buy such vehicles?
Objectivity lives here in Boston!!! I own a Honda, I have a slight prejudice in favor of Hondas due to my very favorable ownership experience (up to 192K), but I pay attention to reviews like this, and I don’t disbelieve them simply because I don’t like what they say.
+10 to Pch101.
@Jimmyy: I’m an east coast guy who thinks that Detroit is improving. My most important source on that is CR. (I don’t pay attention to JD Power, partly for the reason Pch101 presented.)
Since some on this site are clearly experts in Detroit’s automotive circles, this site can add value.
Specifically, the owners of this site should start a blog that ask the question:
“What does Detroit need to do to beat Honda and Toyota in short term and long term quality and reliability as measured by Consumer Reports and JD Powers?”
The current opinion among everyone here seems to be that Detroit’s quality is good enough. In my business, my management would fire me if I tried a strategy along these lines. My management demands I beat the competition. Not match it, or just slightly underperform it. If I don’t handily beat the competition, my management will show me the door. Why does Detroit management put up with engineers and managers that don’t shoot for the top?
Worse is Detroiters that whine about Consumer Reports and JD Powers not being fair.
Explain this from JD Power. Did they get paid off?
•Among individual nameplates, Lincoln ranks highest in vehicle dependability with a score of 101 PP100. It is followed in the rankings by Lexus (109 PP100) and Jaguar (112 PP 100). Rounding out the top five nameplates in vehicle dependability are Porsche (114 PP100) and Toyota (122 PP100).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2011-Vehicle-Dependability-Study-Results/page-2/
I don’t see anything wrong with this data. Out of the top 5, only Toyota is an economic brand. It’s as good as cars double or triple its price. And it’s no coincidence that Toyota sold the most passenger cars (i.e. excluding pickup) in the US.
Your point being?
wsn,
Last I checked Linclon was owned by Ford, you know one of those awful Detroit companies that can’t do anything right. Linclon was rated higher than even Toyota’s Lexus brand. Simple enough for you?
Look up the definition of internet troll folks.
That’s why I drive a GM
It shows.
Colorful pie charts are meaningless to the colorblind, which is somewhere around 10% of your male readers. I can see that GM or JLR or Nissan or Subaru or Chrysler has the greatest market share.
I’ll go with my gut and congratulate Jag-Land Rover for overtaking GM. It’s high time the market recognized Jag & Rover’s superior fit, finish, reliability, and build quality.
RichVS, thanks for breaking up tho monotony of the Vajj/jimmyyjj wars with some comic relief!!
How come jj99 gets to change his name? It’s a conspiracy, I tell you. Maybe he had President Obama’s help with that. Perhaps there is an article in CR on “how to dupe TTAC into changing names”…
Just when I thought the Best & the Brightest had sunk to its lowest level possible, we find a new rock layer to dig through. The amount of insightful information contained in the above replies would fit in the ashtray of a ’78 Honda Accord with room left over.
Another day of good news for Detroit, another day of frantic and obvious denialism from Tokyo. But in all honesty, the arrogance and underestimation will only continue to play to Detroit’s advantage, so let it continue.
Mitsubishi continues to dawdle in zombie land, no suprises there. Hopefully Mazda’s shrinkage will continue as well. That Chrysler’s percentage increae was bigger than either GM or Ford is surprising to me, but certainly not in a bad way.
Mitsubishi, Suzuki and Saab should pack their bags and get out of town while they still have the clothes on their back. No company can sell mass market vehicles in the US and make a profit with a market share under 1%. In fact, I would bet that the minimum break even point for a mass market brand is probably somewhere at 5% or greater. It costs a lot of money to engineer and build vehicles to US requirements. More money still is required to support them with sufficient advertising. Subaru and Mazda both appear to be on the bubble. Perhaps Subaru is a special case as they are kind of a niche vehicle and kind of mass market. Even with Subaru’s recent growth, I wonder if they actually make a profit on their US adventures. They ended up part of the failed GM global relationship strategy for a reason, and recently have gotten into a thing with Toyota.
All things considered, Mazda USA remains troubled. They don’t sell very many vehicle in this market, and many of the ones they do sell end up in rental fleets. Isuzu was the first of the second rate Japanese makers to leave the US market (Daihatsu never made the jump from third to second rate!) Mitsubishi and Suzuki have neglected to make their departure official, but for all practical purposes are already gone. Mazda is next in line unless they pull a very big surprise out of the hat.
VW has been loosing money in the US for years, and despite recent gains is still only a little over 3% market share. At least VW has decided to make a big investment in moving that needle. If they succeed, the gains probably come mostly out of the Japanese brands. I think that Subaru and Mazda buyers are ripe for VW conquest. All three brands appeal to those who want something good, but also want something that not everyone else on the block has.
“I think that Subaru and Mazda buyers are ripe for VW conquest.”
As a former Subaru owner and a current Subaru driver, I wouldn’t get a VW to replace my wife’s Subaru. It will probably be replaced with another Subaru, or another relatively reliable AWD sedan. The Fusion does offer AWD and might be of interest.
“I think that Subaru and Mazda buyers are ripe for VW conquest.”
Eh, Mazda, maybe, if they’re not regular readers of this blog. I know I wouldn’t touch one now. When I was young and dumb, yeah, now that I old and foolish not so much.
Subaru on the other hand, no. Subaru and Toyota are inseparable in this neck of the woods. Driveway after driveway, husband has the Forester/Outback, wife the Prius or vise versa. Why did they buy them? They read every review they could and asked all of their friends what was reliable. Many of them were burned by VW when they were younger, some of them have younger relatives who had the pleasure of owning a mark 4 Jetta or B5 Passat. The chances of VW conquesting these people are slim.
” Many of them were burned by VW when they were younger, some of them have younger relatives who had the pleasure of owning a mark 4 Jetta or B5 Passat. ”
Well said.
I am a former VW owner (B5 Passat) and a current Subaru driver and regardless of my last terrible VW experience I might consider replacing my Subaru with a VW. Reviewing CR confirms that VW may be on the mend at least as far as the car I am interested in (Golf/GTI). There is nothing in the current Subaru lineup that interests me anymore. A friend recently bought a new Outback and it is everything I thought it would be. Large, top heavy, floaty, cheap interior (4 speaker stereo, really?). Everything that made the old Outback unique and IMHO superior to CUV/SUV rivals is gone. No wonder it is selling so well.
VW won’t go anywhere. They’ll be investing in more efficient cars for the US market, with a modern 1.8 liter engine on the way. Even if the people who just bought new Jettas or who buy the new midsize generic come to regret their ignorant purchases, VW will still maintain a presence for as long as the US remains a remotely viable market. That is because of CAFE standards. Even if VW has to dump low quality econoboxes in the US, each one allows for a profitable Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini or Porsche sale by raising VWs corporate average fuel economy.