By on September 1, 2011

With GM, “Fiat Group” and Ford improving their sales volume by 16%, 23% and 9% respectively, Detroit is dominating the headlines in early August sales analysis. But Hyundai Group’s 29% is the big percentage winner, and Nissan had a good volume month as well, up 14%. But the “big two” Japanese are continuing to slide, with Honda off 6% and Toyota down 8%. Hit the jump for our developing table…

Automaker Aug. 2011 Aug. 2010 Pct. chng. 8 month
2011
8 month
2010
Pct. chng.
BMW Group 23,954 24,008 0% 193,793 169,280 15%
    BMW division 20,815 19,540 7% 155,929 139,236 12%
    Mini 3,109 4,425 –30% 37,636 29,704 27%
    Rolls-Royce 30 43 –30% 228 340 –33%
BMW Group 23,954 24,008 0% 193,793 169,280 15%
Daimler AG 20,732 20,127 3% 162,406 149,096 9%
    Maybach 4 5 -20% 36 43 -16%
    Mercedes-Benz 20,323 19,674 3% 159,082 144,696 10%
    Smart USA 405 448 –10% 3,288 4,357 –25%
Daimler AG 20,732 20,127 3% 162,406 149,096 9%
Fiat Group 130,467 99,891 31% 884,676 722,393 23%
    Chrysler Division 22,497 17,937 25% 133,992 140,755 –5%
    Chrysler Group 127,013 99,611 28% 870,989 720,143 21%
    Dodge 41,817 35,364 18% 305,368 266,747 15%
    Dodge/Ram 63,903 55,968 14% 468,769 400,445 17%
    Ferrari 137 129 6% 1,092 1,031 6%
    Fiat 3,106 -% 11,088 -%
    Jeep 40,613 25,706 58% 268,228 178,943 50%
    Maserati 211 151 40% 1,507 1,219 24%
    Ram 22,086 20,604 7% 163,401 133,698 22%
Fiat Group 130,467 99,891 31% 884,676 722,393 23%
Ford Motor Co. 174,800 157,327 11% 1,424,851 1,308,887 9%
    Ford division 166,794 143 16% 1,366,780 1,155,713 18%
    Ford/Lincoln/Mercury 174,800 157,327 11% 1,424,851 1,276,362 12%
    Lincoln 8,006 6,428 25% 57,823 55,776 4%
    Mercury 7,040 –100% 248 64,873 –100%
    Volvo –% 32,525 –100%
Ford Motor Co. 174,800 157,327 11% 1,424,851 1,308,887 9%
General Motors 218,479 185,105 18% 1,695,004 1,462,308 16%
    Buick 16,021 14,294 12% 126,493 101,125 25%
    Cadillac 13,208 12,689 4% 100,449 92,393 9%
    Chevrolet 152,779 131,909 16% 1,206,322 1,052,773 15%
    GMC 36,471 25,958 41% 261,740 204,558 28%
    Hummer 205 –100% 3,344 –100%
    Pontiac 7 –100% 954 –100%
    Saab –% 608 –100%
    Saturn 43 –100% 6,553 –100%
General Motors 218,479 185,105 18% 1,695,004 1,462,308 16%
Honda (American) 82,321 108,729 –24% 770,265 815,075 –6%
    Acura 9,054 11,534 –22% 79,136 85,668 –8%
    Honda Division 73,267 97,195 –25% 691,129 729,407 –5%
Honda (American) 82,321 108,729 –24% 770,265 815,075 –6%
Hyundai Group 99,693 86,068 16% 772,659 601,444 29%
    Hyundai division 58,505 53,603 9% 440,863 363,491 21%
    Kia 41,188 32,465 27% 331,763 237,953 39%
Hyundai Group 99,693 86,068 16% 772,659 601,444 29%
Jaguar Land Rover 3,617 3,958 –9% 31,114 28,581 9%
    Jaguar 810 1,414 –43% 8,204 8,781 –7%
    Land Rover 2,807 2,544 10% 22,910 19,800 16%
Jaguar Land Rover 3,617 3,958 –9% 31,114 28,581 9%
Mazda 22,632 19,739 15% 165,794 156,190 6%
Mazda 22,632 19,739 15% 165,794 156,190 6%
Mitsubishi 7,985 4,293 86% 60,072 36,431 65%
Mitsubishi 7,985 4,293 86% 60,072 36,431 65%
Nissan 91,541 76,827 19% 681,115 599,496 14%
    Infiniti 9,024 9,428 –4% 63,702 66,492 –4%
    Nissan Division 82,517 67,399 22% 617,413 533,004 16%
Nissan 91,541 76,827 19% 681,115 599,496 14%
Porsche 2,184 2,032 8% 20,494 15,719 30%
Porsche 2,184 2,032 8% 20,494 15,719 30%
Saab Cars North America 363 290 25% 4,218 1,499 181%
Saab Cars North America 363 290 25% 4,218 1,499 181%
Subaru 20,837 22,239 –6% 174,616 172,182 1%
Subaru 20,837 22,239 –6% 174,616 172,182 1%
Suzuki 2,409 1,830 32% 18,258 15,331 19%
Suzuki 2,409 1,830 32% 18,258 15,331 19%
Toyota 129,482 148,388 –13% 1,073,072 1,164,154 –8%
    Lexus 18,103 19,465 –7% 120,652 145,490 –17%
    Scion 3,649 4,012 –9% 33,769 29,672 14%
    Toyota division 107,730 124,911 –14% 918,651 988,992 –7%
    Toyota/Scion 111,379 128,923 –14% 952,420 1,018,664 –7%
Toyota 129,482 148,388 –13% 1,073,072 1,164,154 –8%
Volkswagen 35,582 32,142 11% 284,978 239,203 19%
    Audi 10,201 9,182 11% 75,256 65,439 15%
    Bentley 124 81 53% 1,109 825 34%
    Lamborghini 25 24 4% 190 192 –1%
    VW division 25,232 22,855 10% 208,423 172,747 21%
Volkswagen 35,582 32,142 11% 284,978 239,203 19%
Volvo Cars NA 5,215 4,441 17% 47,113 4,441 961%
Volvo Cars NA 5,215 4,441 17% 47,113 4,441 961%
Other (estimate) 86 88 –2% 688 704 –2%
TOTAL 1,072,379 997,522 8% 8,465,186 7,662,414 11%
Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

40 Comments on “August Sales: Detroit Booms But Can’t Catch Hyundai. Honda And Toyota Still Dropping...”


  • avatar
    alluster83

    For Aug however, GM and Chrysler are up 18% and 31% vs 16% for Hyundai Group

    For Aug 2011:

    Manufacturer – ATP – Incentives – Incentive/ATP %
    GM – $33,371 – $3,207 – 9.6%
    Toyota – $25,691 – $2,405 – 9.4%

    Toyota has the industry’s lowest ATP after Hyundai/Kia. GM reduced incentives 8% and sales are up 18%. Toyota increased incentives 18% and sales are down 14%

    http://blog.truecar.com/2011/09/01/transaction-prices-drop-off-peak-but-stay-high-even-as-incentives-increase-according-to-truecar-com/

    Lexus makes a comeback and finally surpasses Buick. The ATS, XTS and the new Malibu can’t come soon enough.

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      Interesting. Chrysler is ‘leading’ with 12.3% average incentive/ATP, while Hyundai goes towards the other extreme with a tiny 7.1% incentive/ATP. Of course, since as you mention, Hyundai/Kia has the lowest ATP in the lowest ATP in the industry, a whopping $6,400 (or 25%) below Toyota, who has the next lowest ATP. Perhaps Hyundai is just pricing their vehicles more realistically rather than planning rebates/incentives into the MSRP.

      Ford is the only domestic brand with incentives under the industry average (8.4% compared to the average of 9.%). Honda is the only Japanese brand under the average (7.1%).

      With Toyota being the only brand whose incentives/ATP percentage went up year over year, it makes me wonder how much the tsunami really boosted the selling price of Toyota vehicles. Unless the difference is all due to massive blowout sales to get rid of previous-gen Camrys, it doesn’t seem to hold up that a severely supply constrained automaker would have to increase the discount to move the metal.

      • 0 avatar
        geozinger

        @Nullo: “With Toyota being the only brand whose incentives/ATP percentage went up year over year, it makes me wonder how hard much the tsunami really boosted the selling price of Toyota vehicles. Unless the difference is all due to massive blowout sales to get rid of previous-gen Camrys, it doesn’t seem to hold up that a severely supply constrained automaker would have to increase the discount to move the metal”

        Well, me too. The ‘explanation’ I keep hearing about how folks are not buying because they’re apparently waiting for Japanese (as opposed to NAFTA) assembled vehicles or models. But how much of the average mix on the lots in the US is Japanese-built? It can’t be very high.

        FWIW, this IS the traditional Toyotathon time (Labor Day), but the ads in my area aren’t calling it that. But they are boasting about low monthly rates and good selection…

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        @NulloModo

        Good post and have to agree. Basic laws of supply and demand say that if supply is tight of a desirable product, you don’t need to cut prices to drive sales. The rising incentives, over the increased year-over-year incentives don’t paint a picture of a tsunami ravaged manufacturer trying to push what’s left; you’d think it would be an opposite picture.

        Additionally, considering Honda has gone the opposite path and seen similar numbers — it doesn’t bode well for Toyota on the if/when they return to health (or what is the new healthy). No manufacturer can phone it in like Toyota has with the refreshed Corolla as a prime example and not expect a backlash, even from the most faithful, when you consider the vastly stronger competition from Korea and in the C-Segment in particular, Germany and Detroit.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        Toyota has always relied more on the “hard sell” and incentives than Honda. I recall Toyota ads from local dealers touting rebates even before the recent unintended acceleration fiasco, while I can’t recall Honda dealer ads ever mentioning “cash back” (although they do tout special financing). I also note that our local Honda dealers, until recently, were very short on inventory. That has changed within the last 2-3 weeks.

      • 0 avatar
        Secret Hi5

        “. . . it doesn’t seem to hold up that a severely supply constrained automaker would have to increase the discount to move the metal.”

        That’s one way to look at it, but another possibility is that
        the few vehicles available (colors/trim levels) don’t match what consumers want, so incentives are needed to sell them.

  • avatar
    alluster83

    Units for the year:
    ————–
    Optima up 30K
    Regal up 26K
    Fusion up 23K
    200 up 21K
    Sonata up 21K
    Altima up 18K
    Malibu up 14K
    —————-
    Passat down 9K
    Camry down 14K
    Accord down 31K
    —————————–
    Cruze up 80K (Versus Cobalt)
    Jetta up 45K
    Elantra up 32K
    Sentra up 18K
    Forte up 11K
    Focus up 7K
    —————-
    Corolla down 18K
    Civic down 26K

    Even with almost twice the sales, Cruze is less than 20% fleet vs 70% for the cobalt. The ATP is also $4000 higher.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Even with almost twice the sales, Cruze is less than 20% fleet

      “GM said about 25 percent of Cruze sales were to fleet customers”

      http://www.tribune-chronicle.com/page/content.detail/id/559974/Cruze-slips-to-2nd-in-sales.html?nav=5021

      In absolute terms, the retail sales gains are impressive. But the fleet mix is still high.

      • 0 avatar
        geozinger

        The article you cite was written in August. Ostensibly about July sales. Does anyone have info for August sales broken out by retail and fleet?

        Plus, we’re back to the meme about fleet sales all being bad…

      • 0 avatar
        alluster83

        My bad. I shoulda checked before posting. Though the fleet mix at 25% can be considered high, the Cruze is only making up for lost fleet volumes of the Imapala and HHR, both of which have drastically reduced fleet sales.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Though the fleet mix at 25% can be considered high

        It isn’t that it “can.” It is high.

        the Cruze is only making up for lost fleet volumes of the Imapala and HHR, both of which have drastically reduced fleet sales.

        Let’s all remember that this is The Truth About Cars, not The PR About Cars.

        The article you cite was written in August. Ostensibly about July sales.

        From the limited data that I’ve found, that figure is a good representation of the year-to-date.

        Plus, we’re back to the meme about fleet sales all being bad…

        They’re not all bad. But they are bad when they remain consistently that high.

        That isn’t to say that the Cruze isn’t generally doing well for GM in the US, at least thus far. But there are those who post here who go to great lengths to oversell it, while simultaneously exaggerating what is happening with the competition.

      • 0 avatar
        geozinger

        @PCH:”From the limited data that I’ve found, that figure is a good representation of the year-to-date.”

        I’ll wait for the official August numbers, then.

        “They’re not all bad. But they are bad when they remain consistently that high”

        It’s when these cars come back on the market that they depress values of the new cars, but it’s not the same situation as 2008. We’ve not seen boatloads of these cars being dumped on the market.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I’ll wait for the official August numbers, then.

        If you’re realistic about it, then you must know that the numbers aren’t going to be dramatically different in August.

        From the monthly GM press release (which predictably goes to great lengths to put a happy spin on everything), “Retail deliveries were up 22 percent compared with the same month a year ago and accounted for 74 percent of GM sales.”

        http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2011/62179AugSales.pdf

        We all know that 74% retail = 26% fleet. And this is one of the models that makes up the lion share of GM’s US fleet sales, so we should expect the Cruze to go to fleet at a rate above the company average. (And yes, most fleet sales go to rental.) GM has been consistently running these types of overall fleet percentages all year, and the press release mentions that August fleet volume was up 8% over August 2010.

        I suspect that part of the potential problem here is that GM’s culture may still be volume-driven, rather than margin-driven. From the same press release, “Cruze sales surpassed 20,000 for the fifth month in a row.”

        This 20,000 figure seems to be very important to GM (or at least it is to the guys who write the monthly press releases), as they keep harping on it, month after month. The fact that a large chunk of this number is going to low-margin deals is swept under the rug.

        It was the desire to be the market share leader, at the expense of margin and customer satisfaction, which put GM into bankruptcy. I do hope that the press releases don’t reflect the New GM, as the new company cannot afford to replicate the mistakes of the old version. Volume-at-all-costs is just too expensive.

  • avatar
    Chiburb

    Even more impressive, Hyundai is up 34% at retail. Fleet is 11% for the year, 10% in August.

    And as an early buyer of the Equus, I have mixed emotions about another 300 being sold last month, almost 3000 YTD. What kind of club is this that lets anyone in?
    Cue Groucho quote…

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Hyundai products are doing extremely well on the West Coast and the Western states. Although Hyundai strongly discourages its dealers from padding the MSRP, more people opt for a higher trim level just to be able to buy one that’s in stock off the lot.

      There remains a shortage of Toyota products with the most popular trim levels in some regions of the US. The unsold models require a lot of incentive cash to move them. And it’s not working.

      GMC Sierra trucks have up to $10,500 on the hood and Buick as much as $3500, and still they are not selling as well as they should with that much in incentives.

      It is feared that the introduction of the 2012 models will be delayed for the 2011 models that still remained unsold on dealer and distributor lots. Not good for the dealers! Can’t make money that way. If people didn’t buy the 2011s over the past 11 months, they’re certainly not going to buy them now.

      Hyundai is clearly the one to watch here. Sonata and Elantra are moving very well! Still a great value for the money, with an excellent warranty.

  • avatar
    CT_Jake

    There’s an error in the Ford/Mercury numbers. The Lincoln/Mercury numbers did not make it into the Ford/Mercury group total.
    Jake

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      The table is just formatted oddly. The total FoMoCo (Ford + Lincoln) this month was 175,220 according to the official Ford Sales PDF. I’m guessing the 174,800 comes about through some sort of math to correct and equalize average selling days for all automakers.

      EDIT:

      It looks like certain browsers just render the table differently. It looks right in IE, Chrome, and Safari, but Firefox and Opera put a line break in the first column that makes it look like the Lincoln numbers weren’t included.

      There does seem to be a typo in the Ford Division sales for August 2010 though. My dealership alone sold more than 143 Fords that month.

  • avatar
    Motorhead10

    Toyota has had a good streak of bad timing – come out of recall/LaHood and run into the earthquake/tsunami. As production is recovering -lowest output was April and May and recovered to within 10% yoy in June – only to deal with consumer confidence at lowest levels since 2009 (and still high unemployment). So the consumer is not on the sidelines waiting for Japan-built product, they are on the sideline because this economy is very bad. During all this, Toyota market share went from 18% to 10% (with average incentive at $1,250 during supply drought). So as production re-ramps, if I’m Toyota, I’m spending on incentives as aggressively as possible as soon as I get product on the ground. I NEED to get people back in my showrooms and back into my vehicles. I don’t think Toyota wants to sit back and rebuild the reputation (and market share) one buyer at time. They need people to flock. Not the kind of strategy they want for the long term – but several months of super-aggressive incentives (by Toyota terms – is still less per vehicle than GM)to kick start the momentum and then they can shift focus back to quality/value/vanilla-ness – whatever it is that makes people loyal to Toyota.

    • 0 avatar
      Sammy B

      perhaps cue “saaavveedd by zzzzzzeeeeerrrrrroooooooo”. Terribly, annoying, but running 0% for that long on so many models seemed to help. [was this in spring 2009? my memory is failing me]

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      (by Toyota terms – is still less per vehicle than GM – but lets compare the % (as expressed by incentive/average transaction price) and the difference is a mere 0.2%.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        And lets put this in perspective. Massive discount on 3/4 ton and one ton pick ’em up trucks create an artifical “average” incentive number for GM, Ford and Fiat Group. As others have pointed out here by listing out incentives, when you go car for car and CUV to CUV Detroit is at or even less than Toyota.

        Also, Toyota lists their finance brackets, interest rates, and terms on many dealer websites, including showing FICO brackets. Toyota is writing paper down to FICO 520 – when you write 72 month car loans to anyone with a pulse, it helps move iron.

    • 0 avatar
      Motorhead10

      “…create an artifical “average” incentive number for GM, Ford and Fiat Group”

      The data I have is sales weighted by model – what do you mean artifical average?

      “…but lets compare the % (as expressed by incentive/average transaction price) and the difference is a mere 0.2%.”

      And this is exactly my point – In May while Toyota was bottoming out in market share, sales weighted incentives averaged $1,250 on a sales weighted average transaction price of $27,570 – that’s 4.53% using the simple calcuation of dividing the two numbers (which I believe is less than optimal due to the double counting of dealer cash). During the same month GM sales weighted incentive was $3,245 on an average transaction price of $33,053 for 9.82%. Toyota had a lot of room to pour on incentive and still only be in line (or 20 bps ahead) with competitors in terms of incentives.

      “…when you go car for car and CUV to CUV Detroit is at or even less than Toyota.”

      I just did a quick and dirty on the July data (haven’t finished processing the August model level data) – and in the segments in which all those brands compete – the only segments in which a Toyota model had the highest incentive/transaction price was in compact car where the Corolla was 9.1% (I threw out the HHR at 23.2%). The Cruze was 4.5% – and in entry luxury car where all the Lexi were higher than CTS wagon – The IS250 was tops at 9.4%. Camry was 15.5% but was less than Malibu and Regal and Tundra was 11.3% but was less than Ram 1500, Sierra and Silverado. Only three other Toyota models were over 6% – Sienna at 7.3%, Highlander at 9.1% and Venza at 7.8% – but none of those models were the highest % in their segments. If there were an easy way to post the data on here I would – and I can do the same for August data as soon as I get it finished.

  • avatar
    Secret Hi5

    Last month, Ed Niedermeyer wrote:
    “. . . it’s too early to determine what exactly is going on in the industry. But if the domestics trim back on fleet and Toyota and Honda continue to lose volume over the month of August, then we can start talking about the kinds of seismic shifts that some are already reading in the sales numbers.”

    Half of the variables known now. Wonder what the fleet numbers will show.
    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-retail-versus-fleet-sales-in-july/

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Wonder what the fleet numbers will show.

      GM – 26%, per its press release above. That’s about on par with the average year-to-date.

      Ford – about 30%. Again, about typical of what Ford has been doing over recent quarters.

      http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/09/all-things-considered-august-sales-a-relief.html

      Japanese production is supposed to be back fully online in September. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-31/japan-carmakers-boost-production-like-we-never-have-before-after-quake.html The next several months should provide a reasonable indication of their ability or inability to compete.

  • avatar
    alluster83

    Units For the Year:

    Equinox(+42K) + Terrain (+22K) up 64K Units
    Escape (+39K) + Edge (+5K) up 44K
    Compass + Patriot up 30K
    Sportage up 20K
    Rogue up 17K
    CRV up 15K
    ———————————————–
    Santa Fe down 10K
    Rav4(-24K) plus Venza(-6K) down 30K

  • avatar
    PintoFan

    Very interesting chart. But can someone explain what is going on with Volvo? That has to be some kind of a mistake, no way that they are selling 961% more cars now then before.

    But the real mystery to me is Jeep- I mean, look at how much that demand has gone up. Are the new Compass and Grand Cherokee really that popular?

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      Volvo was counted as part of Ford’s numbers for most of last year, so the 961% is a comparison of a full YTD of the new entity Volvo Cars NA vs. partial year last year.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      Yes, they are…more specifically, I would say that the Grand Cherokee is an unqualified hit. Wrangler sales are also quite strong and contributed heavily to that number.

  • avatar
    eldard

    Korean goods offer the best value. RIP soon overpriced Japan. Rejoice!!!

  • avatar
    NormSV650

    Toyota rebates = GM rebates.

    Toyota has to slap cash on the hood to keep sales up even though it doesn’t have product…wait they have cars to sell but have float the legendary resale upfront in cash?

    Tsunami, tsunami, tsunami.

  • avatar
    gslippy

    Even though Toyota and Honda keep claiming they are recovering, my locals dealers are nearly out of cars, and this data proves that.

    I drive by their lots every day, and a check of their online inventory verifies the growing expanses of pavement at each site.

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      @gslippy: This data proves that they’re not selling cars. It doesn’t prove/disprove that they don’t have cars to sell. Come up here to Western Michigan, we’ve got enough to go around.

      Our Toyota dealer and the two Honda dealers are still quite nicely stocked. My co-worker just leased a new Pilot, had plenty to choose from.

      • 0 avatar
        Zackman

        I’m very happy “Mr. Opportunity” appears to finally be gone from Honda commercials!

      • 0 avatar
        gslippy

        @geozinger: I don’t understand the inventory discrepancy then. My local dealers are fairly large, and their dwindling supply of cars over the last several months has been shocking.

        There has also been a substantial drop in radio ads extolling the great deals available for Toyota or Honda, and I’m guessing it’s because of a car shortage.

        Here’s the inventory at the Toyota dealer:
        4Runner (3)
        Avalon (3)
        Camry (11)
        Corolla (5)
        FJ Cruiser (2)
        Highlander (7)
        Prius (2)
        RAV4 (3)
        Sienna (7)
        Tacoma (5)
        Tundra 4WD Truck (6)
        Venza (2)
        xB (2)
        Yaris (2)

        They’ve only had 2 Scions to sell for months – 2! Gas is $3.80/gallon, and only 2 Prius and 5 Corollas – eeks.

        I can probably find this many Toyotas in my office parking lot. I guess dealers aren’t sharing inventory very much.

        By comparison, my local Hyundai dealer has 50% more vehicles in stock than this.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    So Toyonda fans what’s the excuse this time?

  • avatar
    SKUSA_boy

    Am I really the only person who is going to comment on the results of the drag race? It seems like the guy in the Camaro has terrible reaction time.

    • 0 avatar
      nrd515

      The Camaro driver definitely was very late. It always has amazed me for all the years I’ve been driving/watching how bad some people’s reaction times are, and how sometimes, they stay that way. I think he bogged the Camaro too, it should have run about the same ET as the other car anyway.

  • avatar
    mjz

    Sorry Ed, time for you to eat your plate of crow. Would you like it baked, broiled or deep fried? Your continual dire predictions for the “Fiat Group” have proven to be completely unfounded. As for your previous assertion that the Fiat 500 might be a “dud”, please note that it sold only 3 units less than the vaunted Mini Cooper, and that without a full dealer distribution network in place. Your 29% increase for the Hyundai group headline was misleading, that was for the total 8 month period, and doesn’t reflect the current trend, which shows the “Fiat Group” is kicking a$$ and taking no prisoners.

  • avatar
    Speed3

    So we are calling Fiat, Chrysler, and Ferrari the “Fiat Group” now? Also can somebody explain which vehicles are Dodges, Dodge/Ram, and Ram? I am confused. I know splitting off Fiat’s truck/van lineup into its own brand worked well in Europe, but I really just think they should have left Dodge alone.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • Lou_BC: @Carlson Fan – My ’68 has 2.75:1 rear end. It buries the speedo needle. It came stock with the...
  • theflyersfan: Inside the Chicago Loop and up Lakeshore Drive rivals any great city in the world. The beauty of the...
  • A Scientist: When I was a teenager in the mid 90’s you could have one of these rolling s-boxes for a case of...
  • Mike Beranek: You should expand your knowledge base, clearly it’s insufficient. The race isn’t in...
  • Mike Beranek: ^^THIS^^ Chicago is FOX’s whipping boy because it makes Illinois a progressive bastion in the...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Jo Borras
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber