Our oldest daughter is in fifth grade. It scares me that in only four short years she will be able to drive one of our cars. Ten years from now she will be as old as I was when I met my wife for the first time. Is she finally growing up? Am I beginning to grow old? Who thought middle aged life would be so damn intense?
Like any Dad, I want to plan a few things for her. On one side I don’t want her to become in terminal need of ‘Economic Outpatient Care’. She has to establish her own merits and foundations.
But I also want her to have the freedom to focus on what’s important. School, learning about life far beyond the classroom, and the ultimate freedom to pursue what interests her without having to deal with the modern day debt trap.As much as I love cars, I realize that interests rarely pass down through the generations. Cars are nothing more than debtful transportation appliances for most folks. So here’s what my wife and I plan on doing for our daughter … car wise.
The first year of driving is usually the hardest time for teenagers. I remember my Mom barking out her ‘pearls of wisdom’ even before I turned the key. Drove me nuts. To help alleviate this ‘parent reflex’ I’ll probably have the two of us spend some time at a parking lot so that we both can get used to each other.
I’m not sure if I will teach other how to drive a stick off the bat. Some folks need confidence behind the wheel before they can begin mastering that art. I think two pedals and one steering wheel may be more than enough. If sticks are still widely available for cheap cars, I may teach her how to use one later on. But nothing’s guaranteed.
Then again, will she even get a license? The real crossroads will come when she graduates from high school. Will she then need a car for college? If she attends a ‘commuter school’ I may just give her something of her own at that point. I expect her to contribute some money to her car.
The balance is almost always the parents responsibility; especially since cheap cars aren’t common anymore. If she gives a little bit though, at least my daughter will have a sense of achievement and responsibility in owning the car. I would want her to enjoy the freedom to travel without feeling like the bank of M&D has been nothing more than a ‘parental credit card’ that gives her things.
By that time I will hopefully have taught her the basics of maintenance and car care. It won’t be rocket science. Just by teaching the basics, you can give a young person an amazing level of confidence and self-reliance. How to check and change oil. How to check and change coolant. Replacing air filters. Changing tires. Everything but the tires we can do at gas stations and parts stores.
That is if she doesn’t end up dumping all this on me, her brother and/or her boyfriend. Which is probably what will happen.
Her automotive future may be nothing more than a non-event. Most colleges may ban student cars from campus altogether. Gas may go to $8 a gallon. Who knows? She may decide that a life without cars may be a better one. All this future prognosticating by a person with the best of intentions may simply go to waste.
But barring all those little chickens coming to roost, I will try to teach my kid how to make her car a long-term keeper. Either that or something else. Maybe a bike. Maybe investing. The high school class of 2019 is far into the future. Isn’t it?
Your math is all wrong. Fifth grade students are usually 10 or 11, so that is 5 or 6 years before being able to drive. Unless you are calculating that you can get a learner’s permit at 15, except that isn’t really driving.
She turned 11 last week. Learner permits can be had at 15 in Georgia.
Learner’s permit is four months away at our house. I’ve told our daughter that it will be a long apprenticeship.
We made our choice on our young children’s driving when we chose where to live. Where we chose to live does not require a car. Our children will learn to drive at an age older than the state minimum, but not before they have shown they are sufficiently responsible to drive a car. They may not be achieve that while they are living under my roof or while they are my legal responsibility. Although our family is well beyond middle income, purchasing a car for a child is something I would never consider. A bus pass, a bicycle, and a lock – yes.
It must be no fun at all being a kid in your house. Sounds like you are all about rules, rules, rules.
Having driven on racetracks for 10+ years and instructed with NASA for many years, and having monthly near misses on my bicycle with inattentively driven cars, I have a high standard for safety and awareness that must be met before I inflict our crowded roads with another driver. It’s for my own child’s safety too.
Or maybe…being that pops was both a race car driver that also worked for NASA and that he keeps referring to “responsibility”…perhaps junior has been rebelling and hot wired the helicopter for some teen hijinks.You know the apple don’t fall far from the tree,no matter how much the tree tries to hide what it did as an apple.
And that’s the way it should be. I guess you are one of the spoiled ones who got everything you wanted, whenever you wanted it? Teach her, Steven, but all she will want to do is roll her eyes and get on her phone to Muffy. Wait and see. Been there.
Pray that your child does not end up going to college in Los Angeles. We live in the City of Washington, so the need for a car is reduced. My oldest daughter left home for her senior year of high school to attend Interlochen Arts Academy in Interlochen, Michigan. She turned 16 the fall of that year. She took a “gap year” after graduating from high school, living and working in Manhattan. So, she had just about zero opportunity to learn to drive while living at home, and her driving under parental guidance/supervision was minimal.
She went to college in Los Angeles at USC. After her freshman year, like all other USC students, she lived off campus. She needed to get around, not just for fun but to audition for plays and other performances . . . so that meant a car.
Being a rookie driver in LA is not fun; and it did not turn out well . . . fortunately the injuries were only to the car.
So, my point is, you would serve your children well by introducing them to driving when it is legal to do so and by driving with them as much as possible while they are still at home. Because they will become legal adults at age 18 and may need to have a car. Even if they attend some college in a college town where a car is not necessary, chances are when they go to work, they’ll be in a city where a car is necessary.
Is it really a good idea for them to be introduced to a car for the first time at that point in their lives? My experience is that, it is not.
+1 on teaching them how to drive early and maybe getting them a license, but not necessarily giving them a car until they need one. Plus it’s MUCH easier to develop fine motor skills the younger you are.
I’m with DC Bruce on this. The earlier they get comfortable with a car, the better off they will be. (Provided they have at least minimal caution genes.) In fact, while I don’t have kids, if I did, I’d take them to the dodge’ems and tell them to do their best to avoid having crashes (I used to do this myself when I was around 12, and I was very good at it).
One thing I’d suggest emphasizing with your kids–my father emphasized this with me from when I was about 10–just after he taught me to shift gears. Explain the liability that goes with driving: you can lose all your cash, in some states even your house. I could easily have taken the car for a spin by myself from when I was 11 or so. I didn’t dare, because of that liability.
As for you, Steve, middle aged? I’m guessing you’re still in your 30s, and maybe younger than 35. That doens’t qualify as middle-aged.
Oooh, the USC campus is like a car show. Students there drive the most stupendous things. Things most of us can only dream of driving. Things like BMW 6-series, Mercedes SL, Ferrari and Lamborghinis. All those nice cars you see in the movies? It’s everyday fact of life in L.A.!
I understand this point of view….but on the flipside, isn’t it important to get a child some seat time to get comfortable & used to things. Inexperience (and lack of maturity) are the two big factors to these reckless kids (imo).
I’m a fan of the states that let kids get behind the wheel at 15, but maintain passenger & time of day restrictions for several years. That’s what I plan for my kids (not even sure what the current laws are for new drivers in Ohio). Get your permit right away and practice, but nothing but around town, in the day, and with a parent for a few years.
[i have 10 years to refine this :)]
To echo others’ comments here, while they might not need their own car right away, it is an essential life skill (at least here in America) to KNOW how to drive.
Let them get lots of experience – they might make a few mistakes at first, but “experience is the best teacher” so long as someone is accompanying them.
I’m with DC Bruce and the others that have echoed his sentiments about teaching your kids to drive as early as possible (15 with a learner’s permit usually) and let them gain seat time to become comfortable with the car, with you or your wife beside them in the passenger seat so they ARE comfortable not only with driving, but how to operate said vehicle.
My Dad began taking me to parking lots and such to begin practicing a little before I got my learner’s permit so by the time I did get it at 15, I was a little more comfortable with the car and how it generally behaves and what to expect a little and that helped when it came time for driver’s ed in high school I think.
Mind you, it took me many years afterwards to become a good driver and part of that was maturity and refining my driving skills, but driving for Domino’s Pizza as a delivery person between 18-21 years of age in the mid 80’s didn’t help things AT ALL, in fact, it made things a worse for a while until I got a bit older and now am considered a good driver.
But I was also given the opportunity by my Dad to learn the basics of maintenance, ie, oil changes, tire rotation/change due to a flat tire, brakes, those kinds of basics and that allowed me to become even more familiar with the automobile. Mind you, I began some of my very first stints behind the wheel in 1979 I think when my Dad took the 2 us to an abandoned airport (now long gone) and had me practice driving and stopping in a ’71 Ford Custom he had and he said, once, hit the brakes – well, I did as I was told and the car came to a sudden stop (thank you over boosted power brakes), he hit the windshield! Not hard to break it or anything like that as we were going no more than 15mph, but this was a way to allow me to begin feeling how to stop a car etc. All valuable lessons to learn when young.
And one last thing, you can’t always expect your child to be where good public transportation is handy as not all cities have it and many suburbs and rural communities have little to none so a car is often a must so that is something to keep in mind.
I happen to be lucky that I not only drive, but have my own set of wheels and live where I can utilize the bus for commuting to work so I don’t have to be a slave to my truck so I have options other than having to take said vehicle, just to get to the grocery store that’s a few miles away. Plus, I can walk too as I live in a very walkable area as well.
Sounds like you have a solid plan there Mr Lang. Other than paying for a few lessons, my parents have had practically zero input into my driving experience. My father wouldn’t know a spark plug from a radiator cap, and my mother gets freaked out the moment any light appears on her dashboard.
My driving knowledge has been built up the hard way – paying for nearly all of my cars (i’ve been given 2 old clunkers out of my 16 vehicles), all my insurance, fuel, and by having to deal personally with every mechanical pitfall – which there have been a lot of.
When I eventually get around to having kids I’ve already decided to take a more hands on approach, as my numerous cars and my lack of knowledge have cost me $$$ over the years.
Mine only just turned 5, so I’ve got more time to think it over.
I sense that a car no longer represents excitement and freedom for most people. By the time my son comes of age it’s likely to be the same only moreso. To the current generation a car is an appliance that satisfies a need, but then the “need” for a car is likely to get less and less as time goes by. The “bike with lock or bus pass” will likely be the rule in the future.
So in me there’s this desire to go against the grain entirely and buy an interesting beater or restoration candidate to work on with him. I’ve also considered starting my own LeMons venture. I guess I basically see most people these days as fattened hogs being lead to slaughter though a path of least resistance. I feel like allowing my offspring the chance to see things differently.
My son was taught to drive at 17 (by me…high school parking lot to start with…on a 5 speed…his choice). When he proved proficient enough, he was allowed to use the car for short hops. As his time behind the wheel grew, so did the radius of where he was allowed to take said vehicle. We “sold” (at a tremendous family discount…wound up pert-near giving it to him!) him my sister’s 1997 Tercel that I had helped her find. I figured even with a manual tranny, there was only so much damage he could do with less than 100 HP on tap. We were fortunate in that the Air Force Academy doesn’t allow Cadets to have their own car the first two years, so I was the beneficiary of the Tercel (and did I mention how much I miss near 40 MPG in a completely paid for car, that at 197k on the odometer requires virtually no upkeep?). We sent it back to him this fall, and we’re confident that the car will at least last until he graduates in 2013. While he isn’t a “car guy” like his father, he is very appreciative of the freedom his own car provides, and a small displacement mid/late 90s Toyota is just the ticket. Again, grateful…as this was all mostly his choice. Being one who wants to fly supersonic, it’s interesting that when it comes to cars, he’s pretty easy. Not that I would have bought him anything exotic or expensive as his first car to begin with.
Having survived the experience of having three children pass through the steep part of the learning curve when it comes to driving, I would say that far and away the most important thing to teach them is proper driving technique and good driving habits. . . and respect for the damage that an out-of-control automobile can do.
Also, remember that you and your wife are teaching your kids how to drive right now . . . every time they go somewhere in a car with you. I can’t help but believe that the fact that my 85-year old father has never been in a traffic accident and has received about as many traffic citations as you can count on one hand has had some effect on my having a record almost as good in my 46 years of driving. My late mother (who died at 68) had an equally good record.
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT POINT! Sorry for shouting, but it’s important. In a study done some time ago, the largest single correlation contributing to a child’s safe driving experience was the driving record of their *father*. Monkey see, monkey do. While gearhead status may not be passed on to the next generation, courtious, cautious, and defensive driving habits are. Most driver’s training takes place well before the kid himself gets behind the wheel.
You may find it’s a different world out there from where we grew up. I find a lot of young people simply do not care about driving, or do not see a future where they can afford a car and insurance.
A certain acquaintance of mine asked me to teach her 16-year-old son to drive. I tried several times. Not only did he have absolutely no aptitude for it, he didn’t seem to care. He’s 19 now, still no license, and it doesn’t seem to bother him one bit.
I face this choice soon, as well. My 4th grade daughter already understands the difference between automatic and manual transmissions, and chides my wife on occasion (“Mommy, 5th is for the freeway”). She is eagerly looking forward to attending the USGP next November, and helps out without asking on auto related chores (just helped me finish installing shifter bushings yesterday, her smaller hands helped). I would hope that she will get to enjoy the thrill of driving that I feel, and wish that the shared interest will keep the lines of communication open with her old man as she enters tween and teen years. And yes, her 1st car will be a manual, with lowered coilover suspension and lots of mods. That ought to scare the timid boys away to at least an arm’s length….
Oh, I would teach them to drive and possibly even send them to a racetrack with my track car to learn the finer points of handling, looking ahead, etc, but they need to show adequate responsibility and maturity first. They might show it at 16. Great! They might show it at 18. Whoo hoo! The state sets a minimum; the state’s minimum is not a law of nature. If my child were capable of driving at 14 I would find an off-public road venue for them to do so.
Being a redneck originally from North Carolina, we take our transportation seriously. At age 12 my dad put me behind the wheel of a ’64 Chevy Biscayne station wagon, 3-on-the-Tree, manual steering and brakes, and had me drive it around the neighborhood with him beside me. We worked up to him driving to the local dump (4 miles from the house on backroads) to dispose of our grass clippings, with me making the return trip. He was a great instructor and never once raised his voice. Laughed alot, but never yelled. I definitely got the car gene from him.
Fast forward 32 years and it’s my turn with my kids. Both of them have the car gene and have helped on routine maintenance items from a young age. My daughter has even gone with me to the “U-Pickem” parts yard to pick up a few items. I began taking them to the local college parking lot around age 13 and taught them to drive on a 5-speed GEO Tracker. They really wanted the freedom of mobile transportation and constantly begged to “take me driving”. Since we were now in Minnesota (don’t ask…..), I also took them to the same lot in the snow and ice so they could learn how to handle a car in adverse conditions. Long story short, they both got their license with no problems, drove a Sunfire (her) and a Grand Am (him), and are very confident and careful drivers.
I know that most kids these days are more interested in texting and video games than cars, but at least my two kids know a water pump from a fuel pump so when they now require maintenance on their rides, they can tell the service guys what they want and don’t get screwed by a service department. My daughter is especially good at putting service writers straight!!!!
With my kids, we took them both to a very good driving school. It was founded by a former safety officer for UPS, and stresses the same things for kids that they do for UPS drivers. Three years later, my older one drives like her mother, foot to the floor.
My younger one, who just completed driver’s training (at 18.5 years old) drives like your typical grandma, rather a bit slow and serene. However, she looks before she pulls out or passes and never forget to use her turn signal.
There were big differences between my daughters learning to drive; one wanted to start when she was 15, the other could care less about driving, but she’s not careless about driving. The older learned to change the oil, fix a tire, change front disc brakes, etc. The younger one knows where the gasoline goes and where to put the key, even though I’ve shown her the same stuff as her sister.
The older one takes care of her own car, while my younger one is in love with her Android phone. It’s a difference of 2.5 years, but so emblematic in so many ways.
The Bard said something about the plans of mice and men, and I think that even applies to this situation. Do your best, hope for the best and pray it all comes out OK.
I learned to drive in a 1982 Celebrity, Iron Duke and 3 speed auto. It was the family car then (1992) but became mine once I got a licence. My father was strict in regarding, “If we allow you to use a car that is still registered in our name and pay the insurance (as long as I kept the “good student” discount) then we have the right to take the car away when you screw up.”
My wife to be has the same philosophy and that’s what her parents did, they bought a 86 Honda Civic hatch with a manual trans when their oldest daughter (now 34) got her permit, then passed it to the next daughter (now 32), and then gave it to their youngest daugter (my fiance now 27). My lady learned stick shift from the start.
When did I learn? When she taught me at age 32. See you can teach an old dog new tricks!
My family had a similar policy regarding use of the cars – though I never had “my own” car to drive, they gave me privileges to use them and paid the insurance as long as I was responsible, driving-wise and academically.
“we have the right to take the car away when you screw up”
On that point, when I got my license in VA it was only good for 3 months. To get your real license, you and your parent/guardian/whatever had to go to court where the judge would give a speech about maturity, responsibility, etc. The court deputy would hand the license to your PARENT, then the judge would explain that until you turned 18 that license belonged to them and they could take it away at any time for any reason or no reason at all. After the explanation, your folks could give the license to you if they felt like it. And that license was only good until you turned 20.
It’s been said before, but I will say it again – the people who are driving her around right now are setting the example for how she will behave when she starts doing it herself. Start early, make sure she’s comfortable with the idea before you even start the process, and whatever she drives, you would be AMAZED how much peace of mind comes with a substantial brake system upgrade (and maybe a restriction plate for the first licensed year – my brother never figured it out even though my dad did it to the both of us…)
I’m probably younger than most TTAC posters (currently in my early 20s), but my parents spent a lot of time behind the wheel with me to make absolutely SURE that I could drive responsibly. My parents took me to the DMV right when I turned 16 and let me get a permit. I learned on the family Volvo S70, base engine and 4-speed automatic – I sure wasn’t tempted to go too fast!
I also went to a driving school, as required by state law, and learned on a clapped-out mid-90s Chevy Lumina. I think my parents taught me more than the instructor did, though.
I learned the importance of blind spots when I failed the driver’s test the first time for that reason!
Second time went better.
I don’t currently own a car, since I go to a college that lacks parking capacity. However, I might be submitting a “New or Used?” question to TTAC in a year or two…
And for those who think that young people don’t like cars…for one, I was probably the only one in my high school who didn’t have their own car (ironically, I was the one that everyone else went to for car advice). Nobody owned a manual car, though.
I have actually been obsessed with cars as long as I can remember – I remember my parents bringing me to car dealers after piano lessons because I loved cars so much…
One thing I have to admit I don’t know how to do (well) is drive a manual car. I have only tried twice, and both times went badly. However, I don’t have access to any manual cars…
My daughter is 8. We’ve got some time to go, but a driver’s license and access to a family car (on occassion) is essential to travel any farther than our neighborhood here in the Boston ex-urbs. I’ll probably follow the path my parents set down. Initially, I could drive only to my job and back. You show you have responsibility, you get rights. After a year or two, I could borrow the car for movies etc. They didn’t buy me a car, but hey didn’t trade in a car when they bought a new one, so we had three. That fits the approach all my neighbors are taking with their teenagers.
A word on safe driving. This may run counter to conventional wisdom, but by screwing around in cars, doing donuts in the snow and powersliding them on wet pavement, we learned how they worked. I think it’s important to understand how a car behaves close to its limits, and on different surfaces. I had a bad experience in an 81 Accord, as I had learned on a RWD Cougar. Came around a bend, hit wet leaves and the car plowed straight into the curb and hit hard (from understeer to zero-steer). I could have recovered easily in the Cougar. Helpless in the Accord. Valuable lesson about FWD behavior.
I plan to find a big parking lot and let her experience loss of traction and control in a safe way, when to apply throttle vs brakes etc. They don’t teach any of that in drivers ed, and it varies by car.
“A word on safe driving. This may run counter to conventional wisdom, but by screwing around in cars, doing donuts in the snow and powersliding them on wet pavement, we learned how they worked. I think it’s important to understand how a car behaves close to its limits, and on different surfaces. I had a bad experience in an 81 Accord, as I had learned on a RWD Cougar. Came around a bend, hit wet leaves and the car plowed straight into the curb and hit hard (from understeer to zero-steer). I could have recovered easily in the Cougar. Helpless in the Accord. Valuable lesson about FWD behavior.”
True and without electronic nannies how did we survive? I learned FWD behavior in my old Celebrity and RWD behavior in my dads Caprice Classic wagon. That RWD knowledge saved my bacon a few times in my 1987 Cutlass Supreme in college, managing to avoid causing an accident on an icy overpass that froze before the road did and knowing the FWD side of things allowed me to get my fiance home in a snowstorm driving her FWD manual trans Vibe when she nearly got stranded after school.
My 14 year old daughter just got her learner’s permit this Summer. She will be learning to drive a manual gearbox from the start, as none of our current cars has an automatic. Even though manuals are becoming less common, I figure she will be better off knowing how to drive one as then she can drive anything if need be.
So far she hasn’t driven much at all, I took her out in a parking lot a couple of times in her Grandma’s (automatic) car. I’m going to sign her up at a driving school that offers manual gearbox vehicles – might as well let her burn up someone else’s clutch to start with. If some of the lessons take place in Winter, so much the better. When she has the basics down I’ll let her practice in small towns before driving in the big city where we live.
No plans to get her a car, and she might not need one for a while, but I figure driving is a basic life skill and easier to learn when you are young.
She doesn’t seem to be in a hurry to get her own car; for a while she thought she might like an old Town Car (Panther Love FTW!!), but when she found out what it costs to keep a car on the road she lost interest…
If your daughter grows up in a semi-urban setting Mr. Lang, I can attest that by the age of 16 you will more than happy to give her a car just to rid yourself of the drudgery of child transportation. If your child plays sports or participates in extracurricular activities, you can easily find yourself make three or four round trips a day just to the school. Then on the weekends it gets more intense, as social commitments become an overwhelming draw for your daughter’s time. Would you rather let her go with a bunch of kids who just got their license, or would you rather have her drive responsibly herself? Again, the choice is pretty easy when it is your own child.
It still is a good idea to teach driving skills to your daughter because the current state of mandated Driver’s Ed is so inexplicably inadequate that if you don’t do it, no one will. As far as safety goes, a manual transmission car will insure her attention to the road more than an automatic will. Also, the size of the car makes a difference. Numerous studies show a direct correlation between stupid behavior and the number of seats (filled with boisterous teenagers) in a car. The smaller, the better. Lastly, the biggest danger to a teenage driver is the two lane rural road with no shoulders. A quick second of inattention resulting in the car leaving the road surface usually means an over-correction the other way which often means a deadly ending against a tree.
And then there is auto insurance for a teenager. Oi vey!
I liked the story from The Millionaire Next Door. A guy gave his kid the money for a car before he was sixteen and subscription to the Wall Street Journal. By the time the kid was sixteen he’d gotten heavily into investing and determined he’d rather keep the money invested than have a car.
These days cars hold their value better than most investments described in “The Wall Street Journal”…
I was fortunate to have learned on RWD cars, but later went FWD with the 83 Honda Civic and the 88 Honda Accord and have driven the 83 Civic in the snow, but had plenty of experience with 2 70’s era Novas during major snows in the 1980’s.
1984, my Bro-in-law Bob taught me how to drive in the snow in my then ’74 Nova and that’s when I discovered it’s damned difficult to get it to break loose like so many card do in the snow as he grew up in Milwaukee Wisconsin.
Then the following year in my ’78 Nova when coming home from a 2 year community college, a huge snow storm hit the area, blanking the ares with about 2-3 inches of snow when I left the campus, driving home and it still falling in a near blizzard conditions and I got home just fine sans chains and it was also RWD. Those old Novas had good weight distribution, which helped greatly and the only issue I had was getting started on a hill from a dead stop, but even that was a minor issue as once I got going, I was fine.
And since then, I can do the snow better than many around my neck of the woods as we get it so infrequently that many people simply never learned and panic at the first signs.
I can drive my Ford Ranger truck in it, as long as its not too deep that is (discovered its limits on snow in 2006). Thankfully I have a canopy on the back as that helped with its ability do do snow even when I had nothing else back there and not even half a tank of gas.
All that I see as good lessons to learn when young and you can live just about anywhere and still get around when you need to no matter the conditions.
And as others have said, good teaching will bring about good common sense (hopefully) but more than likely good driving skills that can serve your child well as they get older.
I couldn’t read this yesterday– I was busy shopping for a learner’s car. My one and only turns 15 next St. Patrick’s Day, and starts driving in about a year. It’s not too soon to ask “In what,” since my current aging cars are becoming less reliable and neither fills the bill. For the first time ever, I’m contemplating choosing an automatic transmission, and this lifetime Beetle/Golf type is looking at Passats. “A tank,” is what my fellow parents are thinking about. I know what they’re saying, but I’d settle for a lightly armored car. One that balances protection with good reflexes– and good visibility, which is the safety factor that’s vanishing from most new cars.
Back seat comfort and safety becomes important too, when you contemplate mom and dad riding and the kid driving. I’m suddenly taking a personal interest in factors like rear legroom, AC vents and airbag counts – because I see myself sitting back there!
She doesn’t want any changes, though. I promised her my New Beetle TDI years ago, and that’s what she expects. But I’m hesitant about continuing to maintain it past 200K miles, and it has a manual. It’s a few airbags shy of a full load, too. But what visibility! “See and be seen” is my safety philosophy, and the New Beetle fits that. With just a quick glance, you can easily see what’s happening around you, making lane changes a snap. I don’t think you can say that about a Prius.
I think my resolution of this dilemma will be to trade up to the Passat for those early driving years, then reassess things and maybe go back to a new-version Beetle TDI in a few years.
I’m 52, and another fellow redneck from North Carolina. I learned how to drive on farm tractors at age 12, then my uncles F-100’s at 13, driving the miles of farm paths to and from the fields. My parents scared me too death when I had my permit, it wasn’t till I got my license at 16 and hit the road did I feel confident driving. I must have drove 1000 miles that first weekend. Fast forward to 2010, my 16 year old daughter got her license, first try and now has been driving a year. The differences, well, no farm to learn on, she drove with me and mom for a year. I learned to be cool and control my emotions & voice while she was driving. I found that she did very well with a calming, reassuring voice unstead of the screaming banchee wail that my folks use to emit. My advice to all parents, put yourself in the kids seat, they’re nervous, they are doing what until recently was just a grown-up thing and they don’t want to screw up and get yelled at. Now, resist the urge to summon forth R.Lee Ermy, and instead, start slowly and work up to complicated traffic stuff.
Problems? yep – I told her mom that when (not if) but when she had the little fender bender, be cool, cause it will happen. Mom, didn’t believe me, but sure enough, exactly 1 week after getting her license, she didn’t back up enough and rubbed a little paint off her bumper on another car (no damage to the other car). She was nervous and said she was trying to get out of the way and other students were behind her. She learned to wait, take her time and if a car comes up while you’re backing up – they will stop and wait for you. We got the car fixed on my dime, no way would the blood sucking insurance company hear of this!
I learned to drive on parking lots on Sundays at first, then, around 15 years & 9 months, I used to drive with my parents to church on Sunday mornings at first, then also back home afterwards. I flunked my first driving test due to the huge officer intimidating not only me, but apparently everyone I met at school who had the same guy with the same results! I waited a few months then passed. All this in my dad’s 1960 Impala sports sedan, 283 powerglide, manual everything else!
My kids, on the other hand, went to a good driving school and did well there and with us. I did my best to teach them that “sixth sense” you only learn fully by experience behind the wheel; anticipating coming over blind hills and around blind curves and learning to watch out for the person ahead of you.
Thus far, my son has never had an accident. My daughter? Well…we gave her our beloved 1990 Acclaim and she proceeded to tear out the trailing arm and messing up the front end running over a high curb at Steak’n’Shake, rear-ending someone, but not seriously, but costing me $800.00 fixing it myself – yes, including a new air bag, and glancing off another guy sometime later. At this point, the poor 10½ year old Acclaim had 138K miles on it and was tired of getting knocked around, so we sold it and got her – with considerable help from her! – a Cockroach of the Road©, 1997 Cavalier, that she took very good care of! Go figure…
She has owned since Nov. 2006 a 2007 Trailblazer that hasn’t hit anything, yet!
Sometimes the best laid plans…
©geozinger
While the early ’90s seem like yesterday to me, those were light years ago when it comes to teenagers and driving. What amazes me most is how the states are pretty much trying to legislate away the right to drive as a juvenile. My opinion is that in the not too distant future you’ll have to be 18 before the state allows one to even get a license. Myself, on my 16th birthday I got a full license (after passing the driving test) with zero restrictions. Of course the first thing I did was drive like an idiot now that my folks weren’t riding along. I’m lucky to be alive after some of the dumb shit I did, but kids that weren’t so lucky as me caused the nanny state to make all the new “rules” that make driving for teens “no fun.” I don’t blame the kids these days for their lack of interest in driving.
Personally I’ve been a big fan of how most of Europe operates, i.e. lighten up on the drinking age, but be more strict on the driving age.
A story made the rounds in newspapers today about how many kids are waiting two extra years before applying for a license. That way, they dodge state requirements for training and parental supervision. They start driving at 18, and cause a significant bulge in driving deaths at that age. I was shocked to learn that in California, less than 20% of 16-year-olds have a license. That’s the end of California’s car culture, isn’t it? Or maybe it’s the side effect of increasing poverty there.
With hesitation, I choose in favor of early training and licensing, if only because few 18-year-olds are as humble and trainable as a 16-year-old.
We’re (IMHO) are creating a nation of wussies, we over protect to the point of absurdity our kids. My wife is the one of the worst. She is so paranoid about everyone and especially anyone that comes into contact with the girls. Me? I say yeah, keep your guard up but everybody isn’t out to kidnapp and murder you. Funny thing, she has a fit if I mention teaching them to shoot or take martial arts – go figure. Yeah honey, just call 911…..
And don’t get me started on the 18 thing, you know, old enough to die in Iraq but can’t handle a friggin beer.
I have a daughter the same age as steve’s, a nine year old son and a three year old son. My wife doesn’t drive, and I believe that has rubbed off on my daughter some, but she enjoys working on the cars.
The boys,on the other hand take after their father. The older one is always asking very specific questions about the actual how to’s of driving, and has shown a high aptitude for understanding it the first time I explain. While most three year olds are busy making messes in the kitchen or drawing on walls, my youngest spends ALL of his mischief energies on acquiring my keys, getting into the car and mimicking what he sees me doing every day.
I’m certain I’m going to have my hands full when they reach driving age.
One thing Steve said confused me. Am I the only one who still sees PLENTY of cheap cars? If anything I think the used car options for my children will be better than those I had. My first car was a 1975 Honda Civic, purchased in 1995 for $500. Two years ago I purchased a 1999 Dodge Neon,with 127k miles, in very good cosmetic condition other than a fist sized dent on the hood…for $600. Ive put 20k miles on it, and other than oil changes and spark plugs, the only thing it’s required has been a new front motor mount and a shifter cable.
Sorry, you’re wrong on this one, and I have both an anecdote and evidence on it.
First, the anecdote: My wife lived in a city, and so never got her driver’s license as a minor. She had an AWFUL time learning to drive at 19. She was an absolute menace on the road, managed to scare the shit out of even me, to the point that I found it best to just hire someone to teach her to drive. I wanted to strangle her mother for never teaching her to drive. It took her until she was 21 until she finally passed her test. She’s competent now at 24, but it took her FAR longer than anyone I know who started at 16. I also wish she’d learned on a manual, as I think it’s a lot harder to learn if you’ve been driving automatic for a while. It took my mother several weeks to learn to drive stick in her 30s – I mastered it in an afternoon at age 13.
Now, the evidence: As accidents among 16 year olds have dropped in California as they restrict the ability of 16 year olds to get licenses, accidents among 18 year olds have gone up almost as much. Turns out that, not surprisingly, it’s the level of experience that matters the most. Sure, there’s a maturity factor – on the other hand, it gets harder to learn new skills, especially those involving hand-eye coordination, as you get older. Also, as the article mentions, while you can have restricted licensing for minors, once you turn 18, the state gives you a license with few restrictions.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/09/14/140433369/-fatal-car-crashes-drop-for-16-year-olds-rise-for-older-teens
I think most parents who delay their children learning to drive are doing them a disservice. Of course, insurance companies and the states are doing it for them. If I were conspiracy-minded (which I am not) I’d say it’s part of an effort to discourage an interest in driving in the younger generations. If new generations come up being intimidated by or having a lack of interest in driving, they’ll be bothered less by efforts to limit the freedom of the road.
I go back to what went on when I was a teenager in FL. You could get a permit at 15 and needed to have it for no less than something like 6 months to test for your License at 16. It had an 11PM curfew at 16, 1AM at 17, and unlimited at 18. It gave my parents a de juris curfew for me at those ages, which they liked.
I look forward to how I’ll train my non-existent as of yet kids how to drive and i think it’ll go something like this:
-Car: compact or midsize with a smattering of airbags, and slightly hoonable. Going by today’s standards, nothing over 200hp, probably a civic ex or mazda 3 equivalent.
-Since I will always own a manual, and my wife an automatic, they’ll be forced to learn both. 3-6 months on each, auto first for obvious reasons.
Here’s where i get a little crazy:
-Basic mechanics. understand how the engine, suspension, brakes, transmission, electricals, and cooling system work on at least a cursory level. Good enough to not get bamboozled by a shady mechanic at least.
-take part in 2-3 autocrosses. Probably in whatever my current hooning car is at the time, as well as whatever they end up driving. Nothing teaches you how to drive than dealing with performance at the limit.
Teenagers learning to drive is always harrowing, and its nerve wracking for their parents too if they will damage the cars or not! You always got to be careful with your kids on the road driving lessons in Liverpool area