Scott writes:
Good People of TTAC: for the past five years my wife and I have shared one car, a 4-cyl 1998 Accord LX. It’s treated us well. It has 122K on it, and it runs pretty well for an old car. Luckily our commuting situation is aligned perfectly to allow us to keep using just one car. It sure has saved us a lot of money.
What happened last winter has us pondering whether or not to replace the Accord or add another car.
We live just slightly north of Boston. Last year we had some snow storms and we got stuck in our driveway four times. We couldn’t get to work until much later in the day. The garage of our condo opens up to a windswept courtyard which makes for some deep snow drifts in a storm. Our trusty Accord while steady on hard packed snow, rides up on the drifts leaving us stuck until our place is plowed. (Our plow guy can’t assure us he’ll plow us before 8am)
I’m an independent technology consultant and needless to say this could be detrimental to my business. My wife works for a warm and fuzzy non-profit so there’s no shame in not showing up during a snow storm.
Her commute is 30 miles round trip. 3 days per week she drops me off at a client who happens to be on her way to work. The other days I take public transportation to my other clients. Occasionally something comes up for me and I drive her to work, and take the car.
Since she’s doing most of the driving, we considering a CR-V or a Subaru Forester as it seems we need some ground clearance. She’s a “Honda” girl, me, my past cars have been mostly Japanese-though I did make one expensive decision and drove (mostly to the repair shop) a 91 Mercedes 300E.
I’m thinking used, and sell the Accord. My wife is thinking new and keep the Accord. I hope to keep the cost around $25K or so. I’d be happy with an old Cherokee Sport with a stick but the wife won’t go for that.
What are your thoughts?
Steve answers:
Pay the guy a few hundred dollars to plow where it’s needed so that you don’t miss any work.
If that doesn’t work… pay some other guy a few hundred dollars.
This isn’t rocket science. You already have a great car that works perfectly well and should continue to give you many more years of good service.
So why spend $25,000 on a ‘new’ version of what you already have?
I’m sure you have invested in a set of snow tires at some point. You may want to get some snow chains as well for the one or two times you need it during the year. As for blowing $25k on something that already works 99+% of the time… don’t do it.
A good detail. New shocks or struts. Maybe opt for some top quality leather seats on Ebay or at a nearby auto recycling center. All of these things will help ward off the stupidity that is new car shopping; especially when you drive a perfectly nice car.
As a flatlander once told this Jersey Boy, “If yew need a hamma’ 99% of the time and an awga’ 1% of the time, then rant’ the damn awga’ and keep yaw damn hamma’!!!”
Don’t blow $25k on a new hammer. Just find someone who has the auger.
Sajeev answers:
Damn, son! You have such a sweet deal and you want to change it? Granted I’m of the “keeper culture” to the point of insanity, but you gotta keep that Accord until the rust tears it apart. That said, I am not against your wife’s idea of keeping it and getting another ride…even if it’s not your current money saving proposition.
It is hard to armchair these situations, let’s make it about your wife: what would she want to complement the Accord? Obviously another Honda isn’t the way to go, its time for a little diversity if you’re gonna spend that much coin! Maybe a base model Nissan Juke, a 4×4 Tacoma, RAV4, or something completely nuts like a RWD monster like a Mustang GT…or a hardtop Miata. Or go Panther with a police push bar, Bilzzak tires, and a big winch to pull you out of any snowstorm no matter how evil it may be. Women may not love Panthers, but they will appreciate their merits if presented correctly. (sorry, couldn’t resist)
Keep the Accord, get another car that will make the cost of ownership worth it to both of you.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
Keep the Accord and call in sick or take vacation on the really bad snow days.
Keep the accord and buy a snowblower.
Buy the snowblower in June on Craigslist for pennies on the dollar. Or some estate will be liquidating a household in the summertime and you will be the only interested buyer. Much cheaper than a newer car.
Put some Blizzaks snow tires with new wheels on the car in winter (it’s a safe enough car and dead reliable) and get a snow blower. You could also talk with the HOA of the condo and try to convince them to all pitch in and buy one for the condo. That way you have and can use it when needed (will reduce 3P costs of plowing the lot as well) – though not certain of whether you have covered parking or park outside. Hell if someone in the condo has a truck with a plow – work out a deal with him to plow the lot that morning or night before.
After owning a > 200k Prelude in winters in Chicago and Lansing Michigan I’ve been through plenty of snowstorms that FWD works just fine. My quick window deicer method – go in the house and fill up a bucket of warm water and pour it over the windshield (assuming you do not have a cracked windshield which will then help that crack grow faster) when the car is running and warming up. Prevent deicing of locks by putting a rag in the door above the lock mechanism to cover the door lock / handle. Add remote start to your car so it warms up before you reach it and it’ll warm the interior up enough that it’ll help melt the ice on the door seals. Add an engine block heater and run an extension wire out to it (hook it up at night but don’t plug in wall outlet until the morning or put it on a timer). That warms up the engine nicely enough so when you go to start it the engine is not cold.
2nd on the snowblower. You’ve had good experience with Honda; I can vouch for their HS 1132 track-driven snowblower.
Snow tires.
Or, if you just gotta buy another car,
Suzu-K (Suzuki Kizashi AWD)
Sir Vee (CR-V)
Subie
XTerra
It’s not snow tires, although a set is cheap insurance.
Mama wants a new car. Be a good husband, “adopt” the Accord as yours, and get her what she wants.
I always go with the tax argument. “fixing this is less than the tax alone on a new car”.
Listen to what she wants, then buy it.
I agree with this, but she may be just as happy with gently used. Take your time and find the right deal on something that makes you both happy. Keep the Accord.
Yeah, that was my first thought too. It may be that the missus is sick of planning her life around who has the car when and thinks it’s odd that two grownups with two professional jobs have one car between them. I’m not saying she’s right and you’re wrong, but it’s not unreasonable for her to want her own car.
And +1 to the poster who points out that whether you realize it or not, relying on others for transportation probably isn’t helping your career any either.
I am going to weigh in from a different angle.
Keep the Accord but get a second vehicle. Unless you live in mid-town Manhattan and you can bike to all of your customers you are under-investing in your business. I am not saying you need to run out and buy a van with graphics of the name of your business painted on the side. What I am saying is that I assume you get paid by the hour to do onsite work. Speaking from experience I know that the more I am present, the more I can bill. I don’t mean that in a scam way, I mean that I can provide the customer with more value. They will remember things that have been causing them trouble that they would like to (pay to) have fixed, but not enough to ask you to make a special trip. I also would guess that some days you are waiting at the customer’s place for your wife to pick you up. No one likes to see a contractor hanging around, even if that contractor insists they are not billing.
I’m in a very similar situation; live on the north shore of Massachusetts, have a 4 cyl honda, and the wife takes the train so we only have one car. The best thing I did to ensure safe winter driving was to invest in a set of snow tires (Not that I’ve needed them at all so far this year!). The difference is amazing. Makes driving in snow a whole new experience. I invested in wheels too so I just switch them out spring and fall.
If the snow gets bad enough so the car with snow tires won’t get you there, the folks you’re meeting with won’t be there either. If you really have to be somewhere when the snow gets deep shovel a enough to get the car out and go.
Good luck.
A quick search on Autotrader of 4WD 2005- 2011 Honda CR-Vs, Toyota RAV4s, and Ford Escapes with under 60,000 miles, automatic transmissions, and a max price of $25,000 returned 567 listings within 25 miles of Boston. Listed by price from low to high, the first vehicle returned was a fully loaded 2005 Ford Escape (leather, 6 cylinder, automatic) with 56K miles with an asking price of $11,995.
http://www.autotrader.com/vehiclebrochure/brochure.pdf?car_id=311024568&dealer_id=76750&show_featured_offers=false&origin_page=FYC_VDP_PRINTABLE_BROCHURE
You can find a decent used vehicle that will more than fit your needs for less than half of what you say your budget is. Keep the Accord and buy a good used “cute ute” for the wife. Hell, for $25 grand you could buy a brand new one if you wanted, but I get the impression that having a new car isn’t a priority with you and your family. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Having a second car will change make your life much more convenient in the long run.
Snow tires. If your question is recent, you’ve only got 2 more months of winter, by the time you decide and buy something winter won’t be an issue for another year.
Never got stuck in my 98 Accord. I always had snow tires on it, and I always had a snowblower to make sure I can make it out to the street.
I’ve got to disagree with just about everybody. If he’s run into trouble before, chances are it’ll happen again. Let’s face it, there are at least a couple of storms every winter when the snow piles up so fast that it’s impossible to plow fast enough, let alone trying to clear a significant amount of snow using a pansy-a** snowblower.
I say go for something with some more ground clearance. And all wheel drive. And snow tires. The right tool for the right job!
Personally I have Dunlop Winter Sports on my FWD Mazda3. I admit that I’ve only gotten stuck once, when I beached the car on a snow drift similar to what the problem the OP has. But after an hour of digging myself free with a snowshovel, in a blizzard, at night, I’m convinced that I need something taller for my next car.
I was going to suggest winter tires and a shovel, but I’m only in my thirties and fit so shoveling is easy. Living in the Canadian prairies, I’ve done it many, many times. I even consider it an enjoyable way to get some exercise.
So, don’t buy a pansy-a** snowblower. Buy a serious one: a two-stage unit from a good brand like Simplicity, Ariens or Toro that’s capable of making quick work of deep snow. I live in the Detroit area and drive a FWD car with all-season tires – my snowblower is my ace-in-the-hole.
To repeat what others have said, regardless of whether you keep or replace the Accord, get snow tires for any vehicle you plan on driving in the snow no matter if it is 4WD, 2WD, AWD, etc…
I’ve got a ’99 4cyl Accord that has just about 185k miles on it and it’s never left me stuck in the snow. It also has Yokohama snow tires for the winter months in MN, but if the snow is high enough to stop the Accord it has also stopped my neighbors Trailblazer. Seriously, the Honda has plowed through snow that SUV’s couldn’t. Don’t under estimate skinny tires and a light vehicle.
Given the miles I’ve racked up you’re good for some more good years out of the Accord. For sure keep it and just deal with the snow when it does happen.
This. A small SUV or crossover is going to gain you maybe 1-2″ of additional ground clearance. Is this the difference between making it out of the driveway and not? In the case of a big storm, probably not.
I drove a 91 Integra in the Chicago suburbs with snow tires for 5 years, with similar experiences. If it’s _that_ bad, only the guys in the lifted pickups are getting out of the driveway until it’s been plowed and shoveled.
Is there a neighbor close by in whose driveway you can park the Accord during big storms? Leave the car there, and walk by your snowdrift. You really want to pay for a car, tax, and insurance just for a few days a year need?
Slap some snows on the Accord and see how that works first. I think you’ll find that it’ll get around a million times better. If that isn’t adequate try a CRV and I think you’ll find that it gets around about the same as a FWD car shod with snow tires.
If fact, the CRV is really a FWDish Civic that has an AWDish drivetrain that works just a little bit better than a FWD car. The AWD system in the Subaru trumps the FWD biased system in the CRV, but to be honest, you’ll want to put 4 snow tires on a FWD car or an AWD car. It’s cheap insurance to not only be able to go, but to stop as well.
I disagree with TTAC. A 1998 Honda accord is at a distinct disadvantage in regards to the safety systems of a 2011 or 2012 vehicle; frame strength, passive and active safety systems, crumple zones, various stability control systems – all of these things are far better, and more numerous, than in a 14-year old car. Readers of this blog may think the TTAC writers poop gold and exhale cinnamon-scented vapors, but they are dead wrong on this. The 14 year old car should be driven as little as possible, and you should purchase a reasonable, fuel-efficient, and functional vehicle that solves all of your issues while providing the latest in safety systems.
Get yourself a 23k Subaru Forester or AWD CR-V. 40-50k people die in cars every year, many of them in older vehicles without multiple safety systems – a newer car may mean the difference between walking away form a wreck with bruises and bumps, or losing a limb or your life. Send an email to Steve and Sajeev the next time you get rammed in the driver’s side by a ice-skidding 88′ bronco at 50 mph, and tell them how you came out.
And also, isn’t the point of keeping your older car to save money, and not to spend it frivolously? Putting new leather seats in a 98 Honda Accord has about as much logic as 2k rims. You would be much better off, if keeping, by replacing brake components, and buying much better tires. And a first-aid kit. Your car is more than old enough to warrant a replacement. Spending some money now is a tough thing to do, but it’s even tougher when you are six feet underground.
A 1998 Accord in good shape is a death trap?
Um, no. This isn’t a 1960 Chevy with an X-frame, a non collapsible steering column, and an interior basically designed to mutilate any passenger in a crash. This is a family sedan that was still coming down the assembly lines until 2002 and got fine crash test ratings.
I agree with Sam. The safety features of many late-90’s cars aren’t THAT out-of-date.
For instance, my ’96 Volvo 850 wagon has front and side airbags, abs, crumple zones, blah blah. I’m not too worried about crashes in it.
Why do insurance rates for 1998-era cars not reflect how unsafe you think they are?
If people were dramatically more likely to crash or to be injured in crashes in cars of this vintage wouldn’t they cost more to insure?
because they are WORTH less and cheaper to repair if repairable and more likely to be totaled due to their lesser value. No car from 1998 model year had Side Impact Curtains. Volvo started adding Thorax only side impact bags in 1995 and Side Impact curtains in the S80 in 1999. Very few cars from them have complex electronics such as Traction Control, Dynamic Stability Control as standard either and may still did not have ABS as standard.
Why buy a newer version of what you have ? For improvements in Safety – not that I would recommend a newer Honda/Acura for that- they have dragged their feet when it comes to roof strength on many of their models. I would recommend a nice used (or new) Subaru Legacy or Forester for reliability and safety.
For 25k, you can easily get a 4 year old luxury SUV. Hell, I just spent 26k on a 2010 Infiniti EX – for the wife. I agree with the few that say above, keep the Accord, get the HOA to buy you a snowblower, and get the SUV for your wife for those days you absolutely can’t get out. Everyone is happy.
Keep the Accord. You know it, and it’s trustworthy. Why ditch it and buy used, and possibly a prior owner’s problems?
If you have the room buy the second car, possibly Escape AWD? They seem to be nice enough little cars, with decent enough mileage for a rolling brick. If I’m way off base B&B, tell me.
I don’t care to get into the AWD v FWD debate because I’ve never driven a car with working AWD (my Aerostar had it, but the light was on the entire time and the van was so old it wasn’t worth fixing) to compare the advantages, disadvantages of either.
EDIT: If you keep the Accord, you can probably gamble on a used car since you have something else that it a known quantity and probably won’t leave you high and dry. I should have mentioned that in my thinking earlier.
My little Honda Accord gets me to school and work on time every time even in the nastiest winter conditions, and I live in Montreal where we usually see a lot of snow (not yet this year though eerily). All you need are some good winter tires and a bit of patience. Last winter I plowed myself out of the driveway with snow literally being pushed onto the hood of the car as I drove! Oh ya, and it’s a wagon :) and oh ya! It’s got over 495 k kms on it…that’s nearly 308 k miles, which is rare in the land of salt and wear inducing cold starts.
But hey, I still tease myself with the prospect of a new (used) car. If all of our buying decisions were based on necessity rather than wants, we’d all be driving around on scooters and snowmobiles.
“My wife works for a warm and fuzzy non-profit so there’s no shame in not showing up during a snow storm.”
Sounds like you have a lot of respect for what your wife does.
Sounds to me he’s just describing their organizational culture, not the importance (or lack thereof) of their work.
Trade in this for a used Cherokee Sport? Absolutely no way. Keep it, keep it, keep it and even if you do decide to buy another vehicle, keep this one as well. If you remember to change the timing belt this car has many many more miles in it.
Can you just shovel a path through the courtyard, or pay some kid to do it instead?
Maybe you could just take a cab on the few days each year when it’s an issue?
Or park in the street?
If you just need a vehicle that can make it out of the drive a few times a year there’s no reason to spend a bundle for one. Keep the Accord, get a cheap 4WD truck or SUV to use as a ulility and blizzard vehicle. What’s your wife got against the Cherokee idea?
If you don’t have snow tires on your Accord, do that first of course.
Keep the 25K and buy a nice $25.00 snow shovel!
I wish I had your “problem”! I hope you realize (I think you do) how good you have it, unless you just want a nice, new car – if that’s the case, go for it. Otherwise, if you want the B&B to advise you, keep what you have and re-read my first statement.
You’re one lucky dog, my friend. Wanna trade commutes? I travel 100 miles R/T a day. Fun. And expensive.
As someone that also lives north of Boston and experienced last year, I’ll second the snows and snowthrower plan.
I have a Honda snowthrower that starts every time and has built in ice breakers. Living at the end of a dead end street, I get large piles that the plows leave and it has never failed to get me out.
Seriously, even the most ridiculously expensive and fancy snow tires would be cheaper than up and buying a new car just because of a few snow drifts. And with snow tires you’ll actually be able to stop the car as well as get it going. I remember the nightmare driving on all-seasons was in the snow belt and after a rather expensive skid out (insurance rates went nuts) I coughed up the money for snow tires and have since wondered how I ever did without them while living up north. If you’re strapped for cash a cheap Korean tire with suspiciously similar tread patterns to top notch snow tires should work fine and if you’re feeling spendy some nokians will do the trick (though they’re likely overkill), but either way get some cheap, possibly used, steelies and put on snow tires. After getting snow tires I remember shoveling to get my car out exactly once and that was when I was visiting my parents during that huge blizzard in NYC-and even then it was only because the guy who plowed the area had piled a friggin 4 foot high wall of snow to block my car in.
And trust me, I’ve lived years in both the #2 and #3 snowiest cities in the country so no, you don’t need to go buy an AWD vehicle just to get out of your driveway.
Have you considered investing in a snow shovel and a pair of gloves? Or if you want to go the ‘merican route, a frigging snow blower?
To get from my garage to the street, I have to clear about 1500 sq ft of concrete. It takes about 30 minutes with a 5 hp, single stage, Toro snow blower. I don’t want to think about using a shovel.
It’s about 3/4 mile from our house to the highway which is kept open 24/7 by state plows. Our neighborhood is plowed by the county and we are fortunate in that they usually get to us before 8 am on weekdays. If we are ever annexed by the adjacent city, we will be lucky to get same day plowing. If that happens, I will buy a garden tractor with a snowblower attachment and, on mornings when the snow is deep enough to cause problems, I will drive out to the highway and back at about 6 am so that everyone can get out.
For everyone suggesting snow tires, it sounds like it is more an issue of ground clearance than traction. I definitely agree the OP should get snow tires if he doesn’t already have them, but I don’t think that is going to help this particular situation.
As for the snow blower – he lives in a condo and likely has no place to store it. Besides, this isn’t just a driveway we are talking about. Clearing the courtyard for the entire building would get old fast.
He could try street parking if there is snow in the forecast, but he risks a ticket and possible a tow – in many areas near Boston it is illegal to leave your car on the street overnight between Nov 15th and April 1st.
I say keep the Accord and don’t worry about the snow. It sounds like his wife wants her own car and that’s fine, but don’t let the weather be the deciding factor here. Last winter in Boston was one of the worst that I can remember; don’t over react to it.
I felt the same way every time I found myself stuck in a driveway or parking lot. Once I finally arrived home I would hop on craigslist in a fury and start looking for Subarus. After a day or two I always calmed down and remembered that it only becomes a serious issue maybe a handful of times per year. It’s a nuisance that comes with living in the area, and there isn’t much you can do about it in certain circumstances. If you absolutely have to meet a client at an early hour, go with a cab.
Definitely invest in a set of modern winter tires. We have a Subaru wagon which is all wheel drive. After many winters on all season tires, I finally broke down and bought a set of winter tires and extra wheels. (Steel wheels since I’m cheap.) The difference in traction on the slippery stuff is astonishing. It’s almost as good as all seasons on wet pavement.
Regardless how many wheels you have driving or how good your winter tires are, once you get high centered, you aren’t going anywhere. No matter what you get to replace the Honda, it won’t get through a 24 inch snow drift unless it’s narrow enough that you can take a run at it and batter your way through.
I understand that you are losing money when you are stuck at home behind a snow drift. Before you spend a bundle on a different or additional automobile, estimate your actual, after tax loss. I suspect it’s not that much. Are there things you can do by phone from the house?
Get a Snow Wolf and Blizzak WS-70s. I live north of Boston and have no problems with the Blizzaks.
With the crappy winter most of the country is having, I don’t think snow is going to be much of an issue this year…
Everyone here always hates on people who buy new cars! You have shared one car between you for 5 yrs, and its a nice sensible practical car that will last you a long time. You both work, your job requires you to be available… it won’t kill you to buy another practical long lasting car. I say go for it.
The CR-V is a great car/suv, the new ones even look pretty good which is rare for Honda these days. Its still a good value too. It will most likely provide you years of faultless service. Keep the Accord as a daily-driver, buy your wife a nice new CRV for snow days, trips, etc.
And used CRV prices do not seem to be too terrible as well, if you dont want to buy new, go for a used one.
I think he needs to focus on the sad sack snowplow service. A snowplow driver with a prepaid contract has no reason to go out of his way to service that customer first– he will go out and find people waving cash in his face from the ends of their driveways.
The condo should make the contract read that the driveway must be cleared by a certain time. Alternatively make it clear that next year the contract will go to anyone else.
Excellent advice, based on my own experience with plow drivers in the area.
Keep the Accord, get a dedicated rim and snow tire package if you don’t already have one and deal with the handful of days a year you’re inconvenienced. A couple of years ago I convinced myself I needed a new car to replace my 99 Accord EX-L 5mt with 120k on the clock. While I do enjoy the TSX it really doesn’t do much more than the car it replaced except take more money out of my pocket. Coilovers, swaybars, tires and pads have made it much more fun when I push it, but that’s accounts for maybe 10% of the time? The 30k and change it cost me would have bought a lot of sport and refurbishment for the Accord.