Ah, the good old days. When a young Kadett could be crude and lewd. A Chevette Scooter could exemplify 14th floor parsimony with it’s cardboard cutouts, and the Yugo was justifiably bombed out of existence.
A bad car was a known commodity back then. But what about now?
Everyone cribs each others specs and suppliers these days and the results are… well… middling.
For example, is the 2012 Kia Rio a bad car? Jack Baruth says, “Hell No!“. Motor Trend says something in the lines of “B-Class Economy Just Got Better!” and then puts it dead last in a recent comparo (along with putting the Hyundai Accent first.)
Who is right? Who is wrong?
I don’t know. From what I see at the auto auctions, it’s been quite a while since North America was truly exposed to a bad car. But when? It could have been the early 2000’s. Or perhaps the early 90’s when a Peugeot 505 and a four door Saab 900 could celebrate their birthdays together in the very same dealership.
One of the funniest comments I ever heard at an auction came was when an old Hyundai Scoupe went through the auction block and the auctioneer said, “This was the shittiest car ever made until they came out with the Daewoo!” He may have been right that day. Fired… but right.
So what was the last bad car sold in the United States? Does the Aveo deserve to be treated as an inferior to a 15 year old Honda? Did the Daewoo Lanos (and the hands of fate) automatically merit Daewoo’s demise? Or do we have to go further back in time? What says you?
A lot of variables go into deciding if a car is a POS or not. Chronic, common problems resulting from poor engineering or parts supply are one indicator, bad layout of controls and interior design are another.
If I had to vote for a bad car it would be the Hyundai Excel of old, none of them survived very long, had rust and mechanical issues galore, and generally taught people you get what you pay for in a car.
I disagree, I think anything Daewoo was and is pretty crummy, not as bad as the Yugo crowd.
Didn’t some Daewoos get delivered without brake pads only this year?
That was a set of Chevy Sonics, which were amazingly enough not a Daewoos.
Where were those sub-assemblies coming from when the brake pads fell out?
GM’s PR machine and all its disciples in the media are going way out to separate Daewoo from the Sonic, going as far as NOT mentioning specifically where it was developed, I’ve heard “Asia” and the “Far East” instead of Korea and Daewoo in particular. It’s amazing how the media manipulates the news to please the powers that be.
The Sonic is absolutely a Daewoo, and a UAW-assembled Daewoo at that. No part of that sentence should make you think it’s a quality car.
I laugh when I think of all the mindlessly delusional Cruze and Sonic owners out there today, who have no idea of the maintenance shitstorm awaiting them. GM can only outpace harsh reality for so long.
I’d say the most recent “bad” car was the (pre-midcycle refresh) Dodge Caliber/Jeep ComPatriot. New enough design so there was simply no excuse for it being so cruddy. It’s easy to forgive new cars on old platforms like Panthers because they are at least….”honest.” It’s the cars with actual engineering money put in them this decade (all of $100, lol) that are unforgivable. Especially when they didn’t have to be so bad and could easily be improved. Like the Caliber/Compass/Patriot triplets.
You convinced me. I did drive each of these as rentals and the caliber for a while. All are atrocious. Especially that CVT transmission.
I’d rather WALK 15mi to work than drive any ‘car’ with a CVT. A scooter or motorcycle maybe, but no ‘car’.
I drove a Caliber for a while and I personally wouldn’t call it a bad car. There are definite cons: The CVT, the noise, etc. But there were some pros as well: Space (I once had 4 2U rack-mount servers in the boxes plus tools and other equipment), good gas mileage (averaged 31 in mixed driving), and great reliability. In 2.5 years it saw over 100k miles and only needed regular maintenance. Not bad for a $14k car.
+1 I, too, had two of them as rentals up in Jersey / NYC. Didn’t intimidate other traffic (not that much does) and couldn’t get out of its own way.
Don’t forget to add the current model of the Jeep Liberty, a complete turd, with a stinky interior and arguably the worst build quality of any present day car. Sure to get axed soon, as did its cousin, the Nitro.
I looked at them. Brand new a Patriot at $16k made a great case, especially for the space and practicability it had. However, that was back when you could get barely-used vehicles for a 2/3rd they’re new price, and opted for a fully-loaded Liberty CRD instead; which was, by all means light-years ahead of not only the Patriot, but pretty much any other SUV on the market at the time.
Maybe the engine was advanced in its own right, but the rest of the car? I think not.
The last car that was an actual POS, versus just being drably anti-aspirational, was *drumroll* the Aveo. Before then, it was a tossup between the various pre-Hyundai Kias of the early 2000s. Dishonorable mention might go to the Suzuki Daewoos, but they sold so poorly that no one knows what they’re like.
Although the Aveo might have been thoroughly uninspiring, I don’t think it sinks to the level of being totally worthless. I know several people that own one, and it has been (mostly) reliable and economical transportation for them.
Aveos were just cheap cars with no manual locks and windows, and an engine that took a bit long to crank. I thought of them as ‘modern’ Geo Metros.
Those Suzuki Daewoos actually sold fairly well in Canada as the Chevrolet Optra and Epica, and they were pretty genuinely terrible, although they both felt like they had potential to be interesting (since the Optra had IRS to the Cobalt’s torsion beam, and the Epica had a straight-six). They just weren’t even remotely reliable.
The Aveo was definitely middling, but simple enough they’d last with proper care.
“Daewoo Lanos (and the hands of fate)”
+1000 to you Sir. However I do think being purchased by the Master at RenCen is what led to Daewoo’s demise.
I’d say the chevy cavalier. With a shaking dashboard, horrible fit and finish, styrofoam filled seats with cloth that looks like it’s less than 100 thread count that has zero lower thigh support, door handles that feel like they’re gonna fall off in your hand, I’d say they took the prize. I test drove one once and I couldn’t believe how low-grade quality it was, nevermind the fact that they made them till 2005 while ford had the focus 5 years earlier.
At least they could be reliable if taken care of and were cheap to maintain.
and 2nd would be the olds achieva quad-4. Horrible interior, punishing ride, combined with transmission programming that made the 4t60-e upshift so fast it would buck at 40 in 4th gear thus cutting it’s lifespan, it was a horrible horrible car.
I have to second the Cavalier. My first new car was a 1996 Cavalier coupe. It was ok until the warranty expired, then the fun began. Before it reached five years and 100k I had to replace the AC compressor, the head gasket and the HVAC fan motor. During this time the front brake pads were replaced twice. It was right at 100k when I traded it. The alternator quit while I was on the way to the dealer to pick up my new car and it had to be towed in.
“At least they could be reliable if taken care of and were cheap to maintain”
That right there disqualifies it as being a bad car. That is the number one thing looked for by a large percentage of the population, regardless of how well it was put together.
The AC compressor and head gasket I had to replace on my Cavalier were not cheap. Both failed when the car was less than five years old and under 100k miles.
I see Cavaliers as “coin flip” cars. Buddy of mine has a few including an ’03 with 174k, original engine, trans and clutch that he paid about 11K for new. Other friend ended up with wife’s 2000/01 where the engine was banging at 55k. Regardless, the build quality, especially the seats, made you think every day was late Friday (or early Monday)
@Carl:
Must have been that ‘quality’ UAW workmanship. The Cavalier (in all generations) was one of those Ol’ General cars you would not want if built on either a Monday (since the builders were hungover) or a Friday (because the builders were THINKING ABOUT being hungover on Sunday after watching the NASCAR race).
Funny, didn’t the late great Johnny Cash write a song about that?
I would say that the last truly bad cars were the self-branded Daewoos. Of the few that sold, most are already gone off the road. They’ve been doing a lot better now that they’ve been fully folded into GM. Same thing with Kia after the full Hyundai takeover- does anybody remember how awful those early Sephias were?
But, dear readers, let us not forget that Mitsubishi is still in business in North America. I would say the current Galant is about the absolute worst car you can buy today. It’s not at the same level as a Yugo or a Lanos, but it’s still a thoroughly uninspiring piece of junk that appeals exclusively to rental fleets and people with shaky credit.
I have to second the self-branded Daewoos. In college I knew a few people who had the Lanos and one who had the Nubira. They were sources of constant headaches and they excelled at leaving their drivers stranded, broke, and endlessly waiting for parts to be delivered to the few mechanics that would touch a Daewoo.
Don’t forget the Dagwood Lasagna
Galants truly awful? No. Strange….Sure. All of Mitsu’s products are weird, the lancer is weirdly bulbous and the Galant so slab-sided. But they aren’t awful cars, I have a neighbor who bought their young daughter a brand new Galant and it’s a nice vehicle. It hasn’t broken down or exploded yet. This is exactly where the “what is an awful car?” argument is going. The evolution of first-world cars has made us gripe about little things or perceptions.
Here are some mid-2000’s machines that I have already seen at the junkyards I frequent:
-MANY Jaguars with bad engines. XJR sc for $1300 anybody?
-Lincoln LS with bad V8 engine (Jag) or trans.
-Chrysler FWD’s. Bad transmissions.
-Aveos. Unknown issues, but there is always at least 1.
-Steady flow of Suzukis with engines taken apart.
-I see more Daewoo here than on the street.
One blown up XJR please. For a grand I’m sure I could find another engine, have it installed, and enjoy for a few thousand miles before it fails again.
318 SBC FTW!
I think the SBC conversion only works up to the ’86 MY in Jaguar. XJRs came much later, mid-nineties. The Ford designed V8s blew up for awhile till maybe 2001, and possibly afterward.
I hope my Horizon wasn’t in there, that was having tranny issues.
Why could Chrysler goof up a tranny they’ve been building so long?
I think he’s referring to the LH cars.
Cars with the 41TE and the N-S version in the LH cars.
Caravans
MANY Neons
300M
Very nice Sebring vert
Get bad trans, throw in trash.
These cars also have the 3.3 and 3.8 engines that have many issues alone. I call the Chryslers and the V8 Lincoln LS “Double Whammies” because you can be hit with a major engine repair right after replacing the bad trans. For a 5 year old car, this is absurd.
I would take a 5spd V6 Lincoln LS, but I would never endorse any FWD chrysler, and certainly not any Jaguar.
I thought the 3.3 and 3.8 pushrod engines were bulletproof.
I can’t say I’ve ever seen a 5 spd Lincoln LS… but much like free parking downtown or an honest politician, you know its out there somewhere.
Who is seriously junking a Jaguar with a blown engine? If they’re 4-7 years old and need 3K in motor work (hell even 5-8K in motor work) for the title cost alone at a junk yard they’re worth it. They’ll still sell in the 5-digits and easily return their investment.
If there was ever a car worse than 90’s Dodge Shadow, I am not aware of it…cramp, noisy, inneficient, fragile, unsafe and not much fun to drive….it redefined the term “suck”.
Weren’t Shadows based off what were meant to be roomy K-cars?
Have to agree about the Dodge Shadow. Finally dumped it after getting tired of all the knobs, screws, trim pieces etc. constantly falling off.
Owned two Cavaliers (’96 and ’01) that I put 25K+ a year on each and traded after they hit 120K miles.Only had one small (under a $1000) repair on the ’01s transmission at 96k miles. I’d say I got my money’s worth and wouldn’t consider the Cavalier a POS. Agree about the poor fit and finish, lackluster performance, etc.Overall though, very reliable.
My parents had a ’93 Sundance – it was by no means a good car, but it was dependable transportation for 9 years and 120k miles until they traded it in (and mechanically, it was still solid at that point).
As a Hyundai salesman, I love the outcome of that test, even though it is pretty unfair to test the most basic Rio against a bunch of loaded up competitors. I am sure had the trim levels been reversed the results would have been different. I think most cars today are serviceable and similarly bland. Everything is computer designed and computer controlled. Most cars just don’t inspire any excitement in the way they drive or sound. If the Veloster sounded like a Ferrari but was still as slow, would it have gotten as many complaints? Doubtful.
What’s “bad”?
Bad quality?
Bad design?
Poor performing?
Cheap?
I worked with subjective audits for years, and this is a subjective questions that should have some conditions set beforehand.
Most cars can be bad when they are a bad value. A 2012 Camry would be a bad car if it cost more than $40,000. Consequently, a Chevy Cavalier wouldn’t be a bad car if it cost $4,000.
The key here is really not the word, “bad”, but how far short a car fell based on the buyer’s expectations for their car. I do believe that what some consider a bad car, is a perfectly acceptable car for those with low enough expectations. The aforementioned Cavalier would not be considered a bad car to someone used to fixing GM cars, or having them for only a year, or someone with a history of driving cars that were even worse than a Cavalier.
What car would you NEVER recommend to anyone, regardless of their degree of acceptance?
The most important criteria here is the need of any vehicle to get from point A to point B without killing you, or leaving you stranded. Any vehicle unable to do this, is a bad car that should not be recommended to anyone.
Right now – according to Consumer Report’s latest experience – that would be the Fisker Karma. It is a $100,000 vehicle that cannot be depended upon to do it’s most basic function.
So, in my opinion, it is the latest “bad” car.
BTW – that is one of the most embarrassing photos I have ever see. The dude is smiling as he is getting rumped by the crappiest car sold in the US over the past twenty five years. Worse, it the “sports” model, which , buy the time it was being sold, was met with all the scorn and heckling the Yugo earned over the pervious years. Yugos couldn’t have stunk higher than when this photo was taken. Dude – I am so embarrassed for you!
My thoughts exactly on that photo, but didn’t want to go there. How odd. What’s up with that and where did it come from? NACBLA?
By the bad value argument: Maybach. Horrendously overpriced for what you get, and it doesn’t help that it looks like a previous-generation S-Class – or maybe a 2001-2005 Hyundai XG.
I like “sleepers”, but the Maybach’s aforementioned resemblance is not in a discreet way.
(And if you think about it, pretty much all “ultra-luxury” blingmobiles are a bad value, but at least others don’t look like anything else on the road.)
I think “bad” can be easily defined by everybody as a 5 year old or newer model that experiences a MAJOR common problem in the drivetrain in less than 100k miles.
This isn’t the malaise era anymore. Even the cheapest Kia should be able to be dependable with minor repairs for that long.
Agreed. I keep hearing hear and there about people in new cars having mid-level (dexcool-esque eating through hoses)to serious (trans died, engine fire)issues under 100K. Boggles my mind in 2012 we still can’t master the automobile as a society. Personally I try to stick to proven platforms to mitigate this sort of BS (Saturn 2.2 DOHC, 3800, had Panther 5.0 till last fall).
I like to buy and drive higher mileage cars. I look at cars and ask myself how the car will hold up if I own it from 100k to 200k miles.
Nearly every car in the US today can make the trip. Some cars will be crushingly expensive along the way. These are the Bad Cars to me:
– anything with a CVT
– German luxury cars. Pretty much any make (Audi, BMW, Benz, VW) will break a lot and will be expensive as heck as they pile up the miles. Add Jaguar to the list as well.
– Cadillacs with the Northstar. It’s a troublesome engine and the engine bay is way too tight.
I think along the same lines, buy em used, do the maint, and run ’em for 100K. I also will be avoiding the CVT, European cars in general are no friend of the used buyer (save the old school Volvo), and its a shame but yes the Northstar is junk and always has been. The Euro cars could be considered if one knew the proper maintenance was done, but otherwise its a ticking time bomb.
I know a few people with Altima CVTs and have zero issues, so far up to 100k. Is there data that can be pulled on specific manufacturer CVT reliability?
40K on my CVT to date and no problems. And I don’t baby it…I’ll certainly post here if it does fail… I do know of another Altima that lunched its CVT but that is hardly a pattern…
highrpm wrote:
…
“These are the Bad Cars to me:
– anything with a CVT
– German luxury cars. Pretty much any make (Audi, BMW, Benz, VW) will break a lot and will be expensive as heck as they pile up the miles. Add Jaguar to the list as well.
– Cadillacs with the Northstar. It’s a troublesome engine and the engine bay is way too tight.”
I don’t know about CVT, but guys who work in Nissan shops tell me it ain’t so bad. Cars are becoming appliances, why not a trans that makes a gas engine feel like an electric motor sans torque?
German cars – Gotta agree! some folks never have an issue with them, but if they break…I think Ford, Honda and Lexus make a number of class leading vehicles with superb reliability.
Northstar – I worked for years in the world of GM and the Northstar is singlehandedly responsiable for more long term loss of market for Caddy then even the Olds diesel or the 80’s version of variable displacement.
Great post, highrpm !
I think my avoidance of the CVT is a general aversion to new car technology until its proven. If you read some of the earlier posts it sounds like the CVTs in the Jeep Patriot and its ilk are held together by hopes and dreams. I also recall Ford having some trouble with the Five Hundred’s CVT in 2005, but maybe that wasn’t as serious as believed. If in 1982 I did my research and discovered new Cadillacs were blowing up like Beirut, I too may have have wandered into an Acura dealer a few years later when my ’80 Deville was ready to be traded in.
Perhaps some of us are more the adventurous type, first year hybrid car you say? Here’s 30K sign me up! Chevy Volt the next big thing? Here take my gen 1 Insight and here’s 37K more for the Volt!
No thanks for me, I prefer to be uncool in my late model used car I can repair on my own and I paid off in 2 years, than to be on fire after my pricy toy car explodes… or doesn’t start as in Fisker’s latest offering.
In my own experience the Chrysler/Jeep pre-government bailout cars did seem to be reminiscent of the malaise era cars in terms of cheesy interior build quality. A co-workers new(at the time)2009 Caliber seemed to me to be extremely cut-rate as far as the interior and when I drove it (once for 100 miles and around town some) the CVT seemed jerky and annoying . A friends’s Jeep LIberty, a bit older was even worse- crappy upholstery wearing out at 2 years old, mechanically crude, awful mileage(according to him). As far as mechanical woes though I would think even these cars probably would be much better than the worst of the eighties era cars at least initially but longer term it remains to be seen.
“Motor Trend says something in the lines of “B-Class Economy Just Got Better!” and then puts it dead last in a recent comparo (along with putting the Hyundai Accent first.)”
Aaaand that should tell you pretty much what you need to know about MotorTrend. I’ve test driven both the Accent and the Rio. The accent was a good little car, but I very nearly bought the Rio on the spot.
going against the grain here and i’m going to say all 2006+ BMWs (non diesels) are going the way of becoming a bad car. no dipstick, you cant service the battery without a special tool to condition the battery. no thank you!
I agree with you completely. The 2006+ 3 series look great and drive nice. They are relatively affordable to buy. But how expensive will it be to drive one to 150k miles and beyond?
Depends on the definition. I define a truly “bad car” as one that even while perfectly maintained either leaves the owner stranded on a regular basis and/or compromises their safety. This definition only applies to cars under 75,000 miles. Any car, even those well-maintained, above that mileage can and will have repair issues to one degree or another. A Honda Odyssey that coughs up a new transmission every 75,000 miles, for example, does not make it a truly bad car. Under that definition, I would say the Yugo was the last truly awful car. That or the “Adobe.”
I dunno about the Adobe. Bodywork was a piece of cake to repair.
I submit for your consideration late 90s Saturns. I’ll admit, these are not bad cars on the level of the truely awful one Steven mentions, but after driving one for a few years, the one time I had to rent a relatively new Elantra, I thought it was a frickin BMW by comparison.
I’m not so sure about the Saturns belonging on the list. I had a ’99 SL2. It was a fairly basic model with nothing but a manual transmission, a factory sunroof, and alloy wheels. I think my monthly lease cost something like $130. I did a couple of cross-country trips in the car and found it comfortable and even a bit fun to drive. I never had a single warranty repair and the dealer charged only $19 for oil changes and the car came back washed, vacuumed, and with a carnation on the driver’s seat.
On the “exceeded my expectations” scale, it was a win. Was it the smoothest and quietest car on the road at the time, no, but it wasn’t a “bad” car.
1st gen Saturn SL’s are fine but once the bean counters went wild when they redesigned them in 2002 becoming the Ion they went to hell. Lousy dash design, Cheap materials, Bad NVH. The only thing good about them is the EcoTech engine.
I’ve owned five.
Always exceeded my expectations.
Still do.
As to any comparisons to a new Elantra, well, you are comparing a ten year old car with a new one. The ten year old car isn’t as good – how can that be a surprise, let alone some basis for an accusation as to the goodness of the ten year old car? Your comparison isn’t good. You aren’t comparing the decade old Saturn to a decade old Hyundai.
Compare a 1996 Saturn to a 1996 Hyundai instead.
There’s a reason Saturn went under, and it’s not because they made good cars. They made cars that you could afford if you could afford nothing else. I’ll admit they were reliable transportation, but I’d never drive one again unless I had no choice. Then again, I have a choice so that’s easy for me to say.
I’ll also add that the saturn was a 98, and the elantra was a 2002. So they weren’t exactly a decade apart.
After a decade of driving a 97 SL2 I have to disagree with you. While I still grouse about the ergonomics and it sounds like a box of hammers on a cold morning, my low optioned sedan still does an efficient if uninspiring job of getting me and mine wherever we have to go in reasonable comfort at moderate cost and it has never left me stranded by the side of the road.
The Saturn Ion on the other hand is a bean countered abomination rivaling the Chrysler Sebring for crappiness.
Was the last Chrysler Sebring not a bad car? Ugly, outdated upon release, cheaply done, and fooling no one?
It was definitely ugly with the hood strakes and cheap interior, but it wasn’t a terrible car. If someone gave me one for cheap, I’d keep it and drive it.
I had a Sebring as a rental a couple years ago. It was so bad I took it back & got some stripped Korean subcompact.
I have no regrets.
I was certainly not impressed with the one I rented in Hawaii, but I was comparing it with my 1999 Accord. I’m sure it was better than a 1999 Chrysler product, and it worked okay and didn’t break.
Nice pic. For a year in college, I owned the Yugo’s predecessor, the Fiat 128 SL. They were mechanically identical, but the Yugo received much more hate than any Fiat ever did.
Technically, the Yugo, a subcompact, was based on the smaller Fiat 127 which only came as a hatchback, though for N. A. the cars received the 128’s OHC motors, the 1.1 and 1.3L 4’s.
The 128 was technically a compact, so it was larger and the Zastava 101 was a derivative of that model, but in a true hatchback form. It used a modified version of the 2 and 4 door 128 sedan whereby the back end was redesigned to become a bubble back hatchback with a full liftgate held up with hydraulic prop rods and a fold down rear seatback and was introduced in 1971. The smaller Koral (Yugo 45) came out in 1978.
Both cars in various versions were sold up through 2008 before being retired.
I’ve always rather liked these little cars for what they were and had that funky look about them. True, their fit/finish inside particularly were not world class and spartan even by the days standards at first. The tape decks offered were basic and only produced all of 5W each through 5.25 or 6.50″, not sure which speakers in the doors and optional 4×6 ovals in the rear cargo cover’s fixed side panels. If you wanted AC, it was an add on that bolted on below the heater controls amongst other options such as a rear window wiper.
I test drove them twice and while not fabulous, they did alright despite their funky driving position.
If I were to get one now, I’d seek out the rare 1991 fuel injected GV Plus as those were, I hear the best of the lot.
I hear you on the Daewoo Suzukis. The Suzuki Verona (or, as it was also called in Canada, the Chevy Epica) was a terrible car. In fact, I can’t even remember the last time I saw one, and they sold pretty well here in Canada for the first couple of years.
I think it was the original Beetle. Uncomfortable, noisy, intermittant temperature controls, questionable steering, bouncy suspension. On top of all this, the damm things never broke, so u never had a good reason to get rid of it.
I’ve never hated a rental car like I hated the PT Cruiser. Full stop. Except maybe the white Kia Minivan I had to drive from Houston to Austin about 7 years ago. But even that anemic piece of crap that could neither get moving nor slow down was a genius piece of engineering compared to the PT.
+1,000,000. PT Cruiser’s are a crime against humanity. i work at a Chrysler dealer and we still have them as loaner cars. i apologize to customers when i give it out. looks no mother could love, horribly outdated drivetrain, deafening levels of engine/tire noise, and a convertible model that got even uglier. worst car EVER: purple, convertible, automatic PT Cruiser. give me the Yugo.
The PT Cruiser’s interesting – it wasn’t bad at all in 2001 (and few other cars could get North Americans to rabidly consider small station wagons), but Chrysler let it whither on the vine pretty much as soon as it paid off its minimal investment (they broke even after something like 30,000 cars).
The early 2000’s – to 2010 Ford Exploder. We have a 90,000 mile boat anchor in our driveway now. The build quality and overall reliability sucks compared to any car, let alone one with a $28,000 sticker price (though nobody in their right mind paid that).
Lincoln LS (2000-06) had a lot of problems. My brother just had the transmission rebuilt in his 2002 at 140K. These were RWD luxury sport vehicles, introduced by Jacques Nassar, designed to compete against German competitors BMW and Mercedes, LOL. Ford dropped the LS to go with the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ (Fusion-based) and Lincoln MKS (Taurus-based) FWD platforms, to compete against Japanese competitors Infiniti and Lexus, LOL. I wouldn’t buy one of these either.
Ford almost discontinued the Lincoln brand in 2010, when they dropped Mercury. Alan Mullay is getting ready to be put out to pasture, and the first thing his successor will do is take a long, hard look at dropping the Lincoln brand in its entirety, or pumping a lot of money into the brand to fix it.
Off topic, but if Lincoln introduces versions of the Escape and Explorer then it may have a chance of succeeding as a stable source of extra profit for Ford (total Lincoln volume of around 150K per yr with these vehicles added). But if Ford pulls a “Mercury” and decides at the last moment not to produce these CUVs (just like what happened with the Mercury Focus) then we can expect the plug to be pulled at the end of the lifecycle of the upcoming “new or refreshed” 2014 products (probably by 2020).
Agreed – and Lincoln should be scheduled for termination immediately. There is no way to revive the brand. Too much stigma is attached to the name. Rebrand with a new badge and call it “Marcus” or just simply “LM” or some such other catchy moniker.
Alan, are you there? Lincoln is not lost, but you have to give it new purpose. Slim down to three models, a attractive full size ‘Continental’ sedan (read: real car), a midsize coupe/sedan Fusion-esque derivative and some sort of SUV/CUV.
My reasoning:
1. With the demise of the Town Car and Deville, there are no ‘true’ American luxury models left. Go back to the sixties Continental and bring back a retro in the style of the new Mustang, Eco-Boost and all. Market it as traditional style meets new technology or something to this effect. I think they’d be shocked by the number of orders if was priced correctly, there still is a market for the large American sedan (people keep buying the Chrysler 300, which is fast becoming a dated platform) the trick is to deliver decent fuel economy with classic styling, and market it to Gen Y.
2. Look at Cadillac, the entire brand is pretty much two Chevy trucks and the Catera at this point, and Chrysler is what, the 300 and the Sebring? If you can come up with a winning midsize platform, it can work. I could envision a 5 series fighter, and offer a coupe/convertible option, something which could be had in a stick and H.O. V6 with 300 ponies, and heck offer a hybrid/diesel/windpower option to mesh with your myTouch/myLanta techno marketing. Why does the current Lincoln MK Zephyr fail in this segment? Because its a restyled Fusion going up against C300s, 535s, Lexus GSs, and Cadillac styled Opels, at best the MK Zephyr is a Mercury. Come up with something different and make it Lincoln exclusive. I think they were trying to go in this direction in the 90s (Post 94 Continental I believe shared no platform and LS only shared Jaguars S-Type) and ran out of steam. One model can be a game changer.
3. Get out of the truck market with Lincoln, its probably hurting your Ford truck/SUV sales. Men who still buy the body-on-frame luxo trucks have probably switched to Super Dutys or F150 Urban Cowboy editions. The Navi isn’t selling put it to bed. Create a better Camcord CUV for the women to drive as Lexus and Cadillac have done. I read recently the SRX 2010 sales were north of 50,000 units, which astounds me. According to Wikipedia, highest sales the Navi recorded were in 1998 when it moved 43,000 units. Also according to Wiki, your SUV/CUV, the MKZ, moved 23,000 units in 2011… so 23K + 8K Navis in 2011 = less sales from two models than the total annual sales of Mexican built Cadillac plastic-fantastic POS. Sure luxury CUVs like the SRX/RX330/Infinity FX are ugly station wagons and a total sellout to people of little to no automotive taste, but so is the Camcord. Camcords move volume. We’ll look the other way as you build you CUV K-car, you can make it up to us aficionados with a real Continental.
I wouldn’t touch a German car, new or used. Old news.
My vote goes to VW – the circa 2000-2004 or so Beetle (ye gods, we bought a used one that had almost the whole car replaced under warranty while under the ‘care’ of the original owner), Jetta, and Passat.
In fact I might just narrow it down to the 2001.5+ Passat with the automatic (what blew up in mine) and the 1.8t (thankfully I got rid of the car at 11k and didn’t stick around for the sludge).
Over 40% of Jeep Patriots, and nearly as many Dodge Calibers failed the first inspection in Finland due to axle and steering problems. The average failure rate for all 3-year old cars was 5,45%.
+ 1 on VW
Going on the “Horror Stories per Hundred” basis, I think that 2000 to 200x VWs get the win. The groomer at our Vet has been fighting with the VW dealer for months about a string of problems with her (purchased used from them) 2006 Passat. Another friend of ours bought his Japanese wife a 2003 or so Golf for her run-around car. It was eating up so much of his time with “Honey, the xxxx isn’t working” problems that he dumped it just to get some free time. Another friend celebrated her new job last year with one of the last wine-red Beetles. I noticed her tapping the tail light trying to get it to work the other evening. All I could think is “wait till that’s a headlight that needs to be replaced”.
On personal driving experience, a few years ago, a I had an Aveo for a rental for a few days. 12K miles on it and there was a rear brake/bearing/transmission? problem making a dog-slow car dead-dog slow. Admittedly my daily driver is a 328i but I remember thinking that I didn’t know they even made cars like this anymore.
Steve: + 1000 here for the “Hands of Lanos”(sic) reference. Worthy partners. Although I must say in all fairness that I followd the Daewoo debacle with great interest for a couple of years which made me start to register the cars when I see them in traffic, and it’s probably only been a couple of months since I’ve seen a Leganza and a Nubria driving around here in Dallas. Those things survived better than I’d expected, which was basically ‘not at all’.
Isuzu Spectrum. Look what it did for the marque!
Jaguar and Land Rover are still sold in the US.
+1 on Land Rover. Thirsty, unreliable, extremely costly to maintain, glitch-ridden electrics, crippling depreciation– why do people still buy these things? Is the whole I’m-on-a-Safari mystique that appealing?
Maybe breaking down appeals to their sense of adventure.
Jaguar used to have a heritage angle it could play. I’m not seeing it as much anymore, so it has to be the lessees keeping them relevant here. In Europe I think Jaguar is far more applicable.
Had a LR Disco Series II and it was a great car, up until around 140K on the odometer. Then things starting to come apart, and the repair bills were typically over $1K. After a few of these, I rid myself of that machine quickly.
I would consider buying a vintage Defender though, as that does have a mystique to it.
Jaguar and Land Rover are a mystery. For as long as I can recall these two have consistently ranked at or near the bottom of every reliability survey, yet people continue to buy them. Perhaps most of the new ones are leased. This would make more sense.
The vast majority of status seekers lease. As one told me, “I want my car to be relevant,” by which he meant that he didn’t want to keep the same car more than 3 years when it would have long since lost its novelty.
“I want my car to be relevant.”
Translation – I want people to think I am relevant.
Not the United States, but in Canada this must go to the 2004-2006 Canada-only Chevrolet Epica and Suzuki Verona, both of which were just a rebadged Daewoo Magnus.
These things were full of problems from the getgo and as soon as GM stopped producing them in ’06 parts support and service became virtually non-existent.
Unfortunately, the US did in fact receive the Suzuki Verona and the Suzuki Forenza.
Nobody mentioned the Smart yet? This is one bad car you can still buy brand new right here in the US of A. The Chevy Colorado is another one.
+1.
Smart Fortwo.
Another vote for the (not so) Smart.
The last awful cars were abysmal experiences for their owners not because of looks or performance. In fact they looked and performed beautifully. When they worked. But for some reason from 2000-2004 the EU implemented a new quality standard for automobile electronics. Everything had to be as good as at least a 1970 MGB. I believe the former head of electrical engineering from Lucas was put in charge.
The beta quality control program started in early TTs, where frequently the entire display console had to be replaced. It was refined in the Jaguar x-type, where the line workers were seemingly encouraged to capture the soul of the classic Jag in a Taurus and took their instructions a bit too literally. The much lauded program reached its apex in the entire early 2000’s Mercedes line.
Eventually the program was cancelled. The former director however continued in his spare cycles job of engine quality control and design review for Porsche.
True, with modern build techniques we have very few truly horrid or great cars. Slightly above and below average for expectations. But I’d have to nominate the Jeep Liberty. Decades ago I remember my father warning a neighbor to never buy a first model year as he rushed out to lay down a deposit on the soon to be delivered Aspen. Flash forward and my sister picked up one of the first Libertys off the dealer’s lot. When I drove it I couldn’t help but think they forgot to attach everything. It always felt loose, like something was about to fall off. Combined with the odd shiver/bucking when decelerating from highway speed, I never felt safe as either a driver or passenger.
Renault Alliance anyone?
Back to the 70’s – Americans welcomed the Austin Marina by BL. Soon the pits even by 70’s standards.
As a former Saturn owner I wouldn’t include it on a bad cars list. I bought a 2 year old 1994 wagon, with the single cam which had 60k miles at the time and put about 140k on it before it was rear ended at a very low speed and totalled. OK the plastic body maybe wasn’t such a great idea. And some problem involving I forget what also resulted in the odometer/speedo not working for months so the mileage was actually much more.(luckily it had a stick so I learned to use the tach to guesstimate speed.) Ergonomically yes it did suck and the seats were awful- possibly worse than any car I ever had. But on reliability , combined with fairly good mpg- not so bad. The Ion though I thought was one of the ugliest cars of all time- the Datsun F10 for a younger generation.
This is one of those questions where the parameters for ‘bad’ really need to be established. While the smart, Sebring, Caliber, Patriot, Liberty, Aveo, and Cavalier are/were all mediocre, I don’t think any of them had a reputation for spending a lot of time in the shop or ever stranding their owners, so I’d probably give all of them a pass for that reason.
For my money, I’d say the Jeep Wrangler is ‘bad’ because of all the mechanical gremlins that seem to constantly follow those things around. I mean, c’mon, the thing was designed and engineered in the forties and hasn’t changed all that much since then. The Wrangler just never gets as much negative press as the others because it’s a lifestyle vehicle where the owners tend to overlook its myriad flaws for the ‘experience’ and are loath to admit the vehicle just isn’t very good for most uses (other than its off-road prowess).
Even so, I don’t think the Wrangler is the current leader in the ‘bad’ category. That dubious distinction would have to go to the Land Rover Freelander. Supposedly, those things maintain the traditional quality control and engineering from the British Leyland days, spending lots of time in the shop, and at a high price, too.
The parameter for ‘Bad’ is the following:
You know it when you see it.
From what I understand, the Smart is somewhat trouble-prone – it’s a German car built in France, so that’s pretty much bound to happen. I’ve heard of outright engine failure in some of the older diesel cars we got in Canada, and I’ve got a friend with a newer gas powered model that’s had enough quirks in the past year or two he’s already considering trading it in.
As a car, I still find it charming though, since I don’t have to live with it.
Any car which you have to spend $3,000 to $4,000 a year on repairs is a bad car. So, bad cars include: BWW (All of them when they get over 50,000 miles on the odometer), Land Rover (all) and Jaguar (all).
Gotta be the GM-Daewoo Suzuki’s (Reno and Forenza.) I drove a Forenza once – it offered all the charm of a 90’s Corolla, without any of the feeling of quality. It had maybe 80,000 miles on it and rampant electrical issues. There was just not any reason beyond cheap 2nd hand price to buy these cars.
Which is a shame, because when Suzuki makes cars they’re good.
Kizashi – Suzuki Product. GREAT car.
Vitara – Suzuki product. Great little mini truck.
Forenza/Reno – Daewoo. Crap.
Vitara XL7 – GM product. Crap.
SX4 – Fiat co-design, interesting but sort of crap.
‘For example, is the 2012 Kia Rio a bad car? Jack Baruth says, “Hell No!“. Motor Trend says something in the lines of “B-Class Economy Just Got Better!” and then puts it dead last in a recent comparo (along with putting the Hyundai Accent first.)’
Hence why I just bought a ’12 Accent hatch, with a manual. Black on gray, of course. This statement is ironic however as both the Accent and Rio share many platform components.
‘Does the Aveo deserve to be treated as an inferior to a 15 year old Honda?’
Yes. I sold my ’97 Camcord (Honda-flavored) to facilitate the down payment on said Accent. I’ve driven it 8 months and have had to put less into it than my coworker’s ’08 Aveo. RUBBISH! :)
Have we heard anything about the reliability of Chinese cars where they’re sold? If Cherys, BYDs and the like ever hit American shores, we could be in for a bad car revival.
Indeed. But the Chinese would ‘lose’ too much dollars THAT THEY OWN! that it wouldn’t make financial sense.
See: Mahindra
I would say the basic definition, to me anyway, of what constitute a POS car are several fold and it’s not just about reliability, but of driving dynamics, driver comfort, the ride, the handling etc and whether the cars got any love or not.
A case could be said for the Yugo, or any other cheap set of new wheels, and by cheap, cheaper than a Toyota or of a very low price from an unknown brand whereby people just assumed, because it was being sold at a cheap price, it IS cheap, problem was, most also treated these cars as cheap so no care/maintenance were performed and it’s no wonder many didn’t hold up for long. No excuse here, but just a fact.
So for me, cars like the Daiwoo sourced LeMans that Pontiac sold from 1987-1990 or so could be one of the worst for not only was it poorly put together, but it was very unreliable.
The Aveo, while I don’t think it was wretched in the reliability department, it was not a great car to drive. I test drove a bright red ’06 and the suspension was on the soft side as it leaned in the corners and didn’t feel all that fast. The Fiat 500 feels much quicker and its horsepower is a bit less than the Aveo’s.
I found the car reasonably attractive for a cheap car but I was not impressed enough to want one after the test drive.
Another way to put it, does the car hold its appearance for more than a couple of years or does it weather pretty quickly (despite car taken to keep it nice), the interior fabrics wear prematurely or are they course and stiff? How’s the ride, does the car inspire confidence when you drive it and how well does it stop? All that are contributors to what makes a car bad.
Just because you don’t like it, it doesn’t mean it’s truly a bad car. I would say the true litmus test of what makes a car truly bad is the sum of its parts, if the car is simply unenjoyable, crude and rough as a tractor in the drive train, has a crude, spartan interior and poor handling/brakes and in generally isn’t well designed and uncomfortable to be in and isn’t all that safe when driven etc, then yes, even if proven to be reliable, it CAN be considered a truly bad car.
the last bad car sold in the US?
the Mitsubishi Eclipse. heck, its still there, at least for a few more months
When my father called me in late 2009 to tell me that he had bought a brand new 2010 Chevy Aveo LT2 (top model, I think) sedan, I almost swallowed my tongue having read so many reviews saying that it was the worst POS that you could possibly buy.
He loves that little car. Considering that his past 2 cars had been a base model 2004 Neon and a base model 1996 Cavalier, it would be easy to make a good impression.
I’ve since driven the Aveo several times and I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it. It seems to be a decent little car for the money and is screwed together pretty well. It actually has less road noise than my 2008 Accord EX-L V6 which was allegedly an improvement over the prior generations.
It’s not desirable but, I wouldn’t say that it was a bad car and he hasn’t had any trouble with it.
Don’t rag on the Yugo. There were three issues from the factory.
The first was that the emission controls were slapdash-old style air pump and “lean it out as much as you can”. A bit of time removing the old school malaise era “tech” and the car reverted to the Italian design beneath. The carb was easy to re-tune to “enough gas”. OK, not totally legal, but….transformed the car.
OE tires were nonsense. I got a set of barely scuffed in Michelins from a Honda guy moving up on wheels and it transformed the car-yet another example of tires making the most difference of any mod to any car.
A set of urethane bushings in the front suspension made the steering tight and accurate.
I had mine for two years or so, till I sold it to a wannabe “Green”.
Once so modded, it ran decently, was peppy (very light), and could be tossed around on tight roads. It was, after all, somewhere under there, a Fiat. I even wrecked on black ice, hit rear to another car, and it drove away…..never left me stranded, and nothing broke. I’ve had worse luck with “real” cars….
Both of my parents worked at our local Enterprise rental lot and got to drive, clean and deliver many cars during the 90’s to mid 2000’s. The 90’s Kia Sephia was a total pile. They spent more time either getting towed to the dealer or being dropped off for numerous issues. The interiors were very cheaply make, body panels were ultra thin and they drove very crudely. My mom likened the interior carpet to something she would throw outside on her porch to clean off her shoes and it was wafer thin. They also said certain Mitsubishi’s were crap, especially the Mirage.
Today the worst car vote would go to the Dodge Caliber.
The self-badged Daewoo get my vote, but the Aveo isn’t far behind or it’s terrible cousin, the Pontiac G3. The Dodge Nitro is worse than the Liberty to me, because even though they are the same, the Nitro was a stupid attempt by Chrysler to steal more customers…from themselves? An odd looking body with awful build quality and even worse, the stupid, testosterone-laden ad campaign that came with it.
The Com/Patri/Ber was useful due it’s small wagon-ness, but horribly executed in every other way. In an Aztek sort of way.