Over the last 5 years, my family has driven various Toyota and Honda hybrids for well over 100,000 miles. A 2003 Civic Hybrid, two Priuses (01 and 05), and a 2001 Honda Insight. The results? About 50 mpg. Lots of complements with the 1st generation Insight in particular, and a driving experience totally devoid of high revs and Baruthian thrusts.
The good news is we’ve saved about $6000 in gas costs. For a family of four that can add up to a lot of alternative forms of excitement. We’re talking long vacations. Cheap cruises. IRA’s and 529’s.
Well OK. These aren’t the types of excitement that truly make an auto enthusiast. But for 98% of the driving that we do, the hybrids have served as a brilliant way to keep us on a better financial path during this nasty recession.
There is a down side to those rosey financials. We still spent well over $6000 in gas. That money will be going, in part, to the Arab dictatorships and the Russian mafia. Not to go too deep into the ideological and religious morass. But as with many of you, I would strongly prefer to minimize our financial and political involvement with these forces.
Enter the Leaf. Can this all too known electric car solve our long-term oil dependence? Or is it a future footnote of automotive history like GM’s EV1?
In Ocean Blue the Nissan Leaf is an absolutely stunning vehicle if you are among the less than 1% of American auto enthusiasts who appreciate a hint of French design.
The Leaf has an almost 2CV-like curvature from the front bumper to the b-pillar, and then the quintessential tucked in rear that many folks associate with modern day French hatchbacks. The front end also has a slight buggy eyed look to it that Renault-Nissan applies in spades (and clubs) to the Nissan Juke. It works well with the Leaf when you see it in person.
To me the Leaf looks nice and subtle compared to the insectozoid exterior designs of the Prius and the bulky proportions of the Volt. As for today’s consumer, most everyone else will look at the Leaf and see a simple Versa hatchback with minor tweaks. The design is still French though. Even if it now takes a Japanese brand name to sell it.
Sit in the Leaf and you can’t help but smile. The seats feel far more comfortable and svelte than a Volt, Prius, or it’s upscale CT200h sibling. In fact they are practically Volvo-esque in their comfort. Leather and the moden day leatherette derivations have held the sway of luxury for a long time now. But I genuinely enjoyed the velour like feel of the Leaf’s seats. They look average; but on the road they were a pleasant surprise.
You sit higher in the Leaf as well which is a big help when it comes to hybrid ownership. Especially for those who don’t want to ‘fall in’ to their cars each and every time. If you’re looking at keeping a vehicle in the long-run, the need to avoid the constant climbing in and out, and the occasional bonking of your head that comes with it, is well worth considering. My wife loved how the Leaf avoided the fall-in syndrome.
In fact, she loved the Leaf so much that I was given a five minute lecture from her as soon as I got back from the auctions. “You need to wrap the cord this way Steve! Plus you see this? You see this? (pointing to the plug cover). You can’t leave it out!” For a good two to three minutes I felt like Lucy being lectured by Desi Arnaz in an old ‘I Love Lucy’ rerun. It didn’t last long though. My father used to walk away from unpleasant conversations mid-sentence and I suffer from the same level of tolerance.
The controls are also far more intuitive than any of the competitors for one simple reason. There are far fewer of them. After starting up the vehicle and driving it in eerie silence, it took no more than about five minutes to understand what 90+ % of the buttons did and where to find them. In the 400+ miles I spent with the Leaf the only area of confusion was the occasional popping of the hood instead of the Leaf’s front plug cover.
Okay, the big questions.
1) What’s this vehicles true range?
With a light foot and laid back driving style you’re really looking at around 80 to 90 miles.
2) Is it cheaper to run than a hybrid?
The cheapest hybrid with an automatic transmission also happens to be my 2001 Honda Insight. So let’s do the numbers.
Insight’s cost per mile = $3.50 a gallon / 55 mpg = 6.35 cents per mile
Leaf’s cost per mile = 4.8 miles per kwh = 8.5 cents per kwh / 4.8 = 1.77 cents per mile
Keep in mind that I have a notoriously light foot and my electric rates will differ from yours. But on a per mile basis the Leaf is likely the most economical vehicle of modern times.
3) If I bought a Leaf instead of a Versa, would I ever recoup the price difference?
More than likely not. It depends on where you live. The Leaf’s MSRP is $38.270. 13 states will provide tax credits that can net as high as $5250 along with the Fed’s $7500 federal tax credit. $38,270 – $12,750 = $25, 520
A Versa SL hatchback similarly equipped is available for $20,902 minus a $1,000 cash back = $19,902.
I would conservatively expect a drive-out price of around $18,500 plus tax, tag and title for the Versa. But let’s stick with MSRP’s and incentives as a true measurement of current cost.
Our price differential between the two cars comes to $5618.
Sales tax is wildly variant. In Georgia, my home state, it’s 7%. So that would add about $393 to the price.
We’re now looking at about a $6000 difference. ($5,618 + $393 = $6,011)
Versa annual fuel costs are $1858 according to fuel economy.gov.
Leaf annual fuel costs are $612 according to the same source. So if you drive, 45% highway, 55% city driving, and 15,000 annual miles. the annual gas difference comes to $1246 per year in favor of the Leaf.
$6000 price difference / $1246 gas savings = Appx. 4.8 years.
Insurance may cost more on the Leaf. Versa will have higher maintenance costs. Depreciation may likely be better on the Leaf. But it’s hard to assume all this outright. Just on a swag basis I would expect payback to be around 5 years or 72,000 miles if you live in a state that offers tax credits. That is assuming you have a similar sales tax rate and can apply all the federal and state tax returns.
If you can’t take full advantage of those credits, drive far less than 15,000 miles a year, or if your electric costs are substantially higher, then the payback horizon can potentially stretch as far as 10 years or 150,000 miles. By that time you have another issue to contend with.
4) Is this battery going to last?
On the Nissan Leaf there is a Long Battery Life setting that will keep the battery charged up to 80% of it’s capacity. Driving style, charging methods (quick vs. slow),and heat will all make your longevity vary.
The unique aspect of the Leaf’s battery is it’s modularity. If a cell goes bad, they can replace that part instead of the whole battery. The bad part is that this can lead to very high costs if Nissan decides to make those modules and the ensuing labor expensive.
Right now Nissan offers an 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty on the battery. Given that the average American car owner is driving a car that is nearly 11 years old and 130,000 miles, I would suspect that a 10 year / 150,000 mile warranty on the battery (like Honda offers on my Insight) would help eliminate a lot of trepidation in the marketplace. It would also simplify the cost/benefit analysis of buying a Leaf for the long haul.
5) Okay, I give up on the numbers. God I hate math! Why should I pick the Leaf?
The Leaf is a good fit if:
1) This will be a second family car and your spouse rarely needs to go outside a 30 mile radius.
2) The daily commute is no more than 60 miles roundtrip.
3) You enjoy being part of a very active community that makes the ownership experience of your car far more interesting than just “commuting and cost”.
4) You’re a single guy that has access to plenty of good public transportation.
5) You have decided that sending money to governments that hate Westerners is not such a bright thing to do.
6) You think the Leaf is cool…. and the Volt and Prius are not.
If you agree with at least 3 of the 6 above, then put the Leaf on your list. Then put down the Volt, CT200h, Prius c, and whatever compact vehicle strikes your fancy. You may be looking for a pure EV, or not. Drive what you like and decide for yourself.
Note: Nissan provided a charging cord, insurance, and the Leaf. For some perverse reason they also decided to provide an Infiniti GX56 following the Leaf’s return.
7) You can afford a $38K car and you have a high enough tax burden that you can use the credits.
Most people who can afford a $38k that are motorists are probably well situated, income-tax-wise, to receive said credits.
Given the chemistries and technologies, this is definitely a v1.0. I’d expect once we see other EVs, cost will drop to parity toslight-premium compacts.
As it’s been said before, Leaf owners and Volt owners are paying a price-premium that other leading edge technology automobile owners would. Why is it any more significant that this car retails for $38k than the GX56 retails for $60k?
Or you can pay someone $15,000 to convert your late-model ICE car into an electric vehicle… a far more cost effective option than the Nissan.
For the payback period, how about looking at a 48- or 60-month lease rate rather than having to guess about depreciation?
He really missed the 240V charger that you will need. I wouldn’t own an EV without one.
My commute (on the absolute shortest route) is 30.0 miles(60/day). Any variation such has having to go from the main route to the next shortest route is 68 miles RT/day. But that is 68 miles I have to drive no matter if it’s 110F heat index or -25F below (-40 windchill). My garage is not heated & the car needs to sit from 8-12 hours without being able to charge while I’m at work. This worries me…..It also needs to be able to charge up in sub 8 hours if I come home late & have to go in early the next morning (not uncommon).
It’s just SO CLOSE to being usable but not quite there. It’s frustrating.
An electric car would be perfect if it could do:
* 70 miles RT @ 58mph average or 60 miles RT at 35mph average.
* It needs this range with heater on and or AC on for ~ 1 hour
* It still needs to get me to work & back 10-15 years from the day I buy it at ~ 18k miles/year w/o expensive battery replacement, even in the dead of winter or in the heat of summer.
* It needs to be under $25k well optioned.
So close….maybe in 10 years? Also: I pay $0.13/kwh…..so my running costs will be about 50% higher than Mr. Lang’s.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/11/range-extending-trailer-charges-your-ev-carries-your-gear/
So, if you buy this, you will have to stop to recharge the batteries (assuming 30 minutes for the 400V charge), or get a Volt that has one on board and requires no stopping? How much does the trailer cost?
I know what you mean. They fit my needs, just waiting fo rthe cost to come down a little .
Am glad you didn’t just stomp your feet and declare EVs sh** and then proclaim they’ll never, ever work… LOL! There is alot of that going ’round these days.
If you put a 240V plug in your garage and spend about $350 for upgrading the EVSE that comes with the car so it’ll do L2 and L1 charging instead of just L1 you will be able to charge in under 8 hours, no problem.
It only takes 8 hours to charge on L2 if you drain the battery dead and have to tow the vehicle. The rule of thumb is 5 minutes of L2 charging for each mile driven so a 60 mile round trip would need about 5 hours charging.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3625 for more info.
not sure i followed the math on the sales tax. wouldn’t it be calculated using the *difference* in cost between the two cars multipled by the tax rate (7% x $5,618 = $393) and not the entire amount of sales tax on the leaf. This assumes Leaf sales are not exempt from sales tax.
You are correct. Revisions made.
I am getting really picky now, but is tax calculated before or after the gov’t rebates? I can’t find anywhere that says. Nissan site says MSRP doesn’t include tax, title, license etc. So, is the tax before or after the credits? If tax is before tax credits, then you are looking at 1300 difference in taxes.
Before. When you buy the car, regardless of what tax credit voodoo is going to happen next April 15th, you’re still plunking down $38K, and the state wants their X% cut.
What is the basis for the following two statements:
“Versa will have higher maintenance costs. Depreciation may likely be better on the Leaf.”
Is this just based on the manufacturer’s recommended maintenance schedule? Or, in the absence of data at this early point in time, are you basing this on the expected increased reliability of an electric motor and no transmission as compared to the Versa’s conventional motor and CVT? Even accepting this conjecture arguendo, much of the maintenance on the Leaf should be comparable to the Versa: tires, suspension, interior/electrical bits. Additionally, the Leaf seems like it has a greater potential for catastrophic electrical problems, although no new car, even one as seemingly basic as the Versa, is immune from this risk.
Regarding resale value, I think the remaining resale value outside of the warranty period will depend greatly on the reliability question. If there is some costly repair that is highly likely to occur once you reach a given mileage (whether that is the Versa’s CVT, the Leaf’s battery, or something else entirely), that risk will weigh on the resale prices, assuming potential buyers are aware of the threat.
I’m not saying the Versa is superior in either of these areas, but I note the lack of data. I guess that’s why I’m not an early adopter.
The battery on the Leaf has an 8 year – 100,000 mile warranty so any battery costs would not be a factor.
The Versa will require a drivebelt, oil changes and based on my experience with hybrids, more frequent lead battery replacements and brake maintenance(due to the Leaf’s use of regenerative braking which minimizes brake wear). The costs for this work will likely range from around $500 (DIY) to $2000 (dealer) in additional cost.
“The battery on the Leaf has an 8 year – 100,000 mile warranty so any battery costs would not be a factor.”
I guess I see look at it differently, maybe because I keep cars longer than that (or at least hope that they will have some resale value near or after the warranty expires). If the battery fails during the warranty period, great. But presumably Nissan has designed it to last at least that long. If it fails outside the warranty period, that is a potentially huge maintenance cost, one which I would look at amortizing over the lifetime of the part. Also, if the specter of battery replacement looms on the horizon, that will impact residual values as well.
Now if battery cells were to last an average of 200K miles, it wouldn’t be such a problem, but if the batteries were dying at an average of 110K or 120K miles, that would be a dealbreaker. Of course this is not just a potential issue for the Leaf – I’d be equally disappointed whether it were the Leaf’s battery or the Versa’s transmission.
And I agree that the Leaf’s brake wear should be reduced with the regen system.
On my 2002 Focus, I’ve needed oil changes, power steering and brake fluid changes, brake discs and pads, a cam belt replacement, an intake manifold modulator replacement and a shift linkage fixed. No electrical bits, no suspension, no interior fixes or replacements.
The only commonality with the Leaf might be the brake fluid and tires, so unless the Leaf has some unexpected electric motor problems, its maintenance should cost substantially less. At least until the battery needs some attention.
GM needs to be very worried about this car. It delivers for less than the Volt on what is the most practical use for a go kart, short trips around the town.
The modular nature of the battery is an idea Tesla didn’t incorporate and should have.
For most people, the Leaf would make a great second vehicle, but not their sole vehicle.
Personally, I think that liquid hydrocarbons are just too convenient a means of carrying and transferring energy, and that I highly doubt there will be a large infrastructure of high-voltage charging gear that will provide comparable charge rates.
However, if there’s practical SOFCs that work with gasoline and convert it more efficiently than ICEs into electricity, and there’s synthesizing of gasoline from atmospheric CO2 + water..
In the meantime, I’ll do my errands and commute well within my Volt’s battery capacity, and yet still be able to drive out from Austin to Lexington for BBQ or San Antonio to visit the Alamo, and come back on the same day.
“synthesizing of gasoline from atmospheric CO2 + water..”
Out of curiosity – are there companies that are even thinking of doing this? It seems like even if it was possible you’d burn 100 miles of electrical energy to get 35 miles of gasoline energy..
There was some research a few years back into a solar-powered reaction that converts CO2 into CO and O2, with the idea that the CO would them be used for things like synthetic fuels. Not sure if it got anywhere, though.
It was really proposed, but I imagine things would have to get dire enough, probably a market to supply gasoline to antique collectors 50 years from now.. so you could run your antique 2012 Ford Mustang on a genuine preserved antique road for the Sunday rally.
The proposals were to re-use the CO2 from burning coal in a power plant to make gasoline.. probably more practical to just make synthetic gasoline from NG, coal or crop waste. Such CO2 is now sold to oil producers to inject into old old wells and increase the pressure.
“GM needs to be very worried about this car.”
Not really. GM will have their own full on EV pretty quickly. The reality is the Volt and Leaf really don’t compete with each other. Most that own a Leaf would never consider a Volt and vice versa.
I would absolutely buy one of these for $20k out the door. I drive 15 minutes to work – this thing is ideal. I even have a 30A 240v circuit in my garage waiting to charge a vehicle like this.
It would be no more inconvenient for me than charging my cell phone every night.
I would still keep the small gas powered car and the large gas powered SUV for the appropriate occasions.
I just don’t want to part with $25k or $30k for this type of vehicle. Get the cost down and people will eventually warm up to them.
If I want a $40,000 toy to make me feel better, I’ll get a Lotus, or a clean used Corvette (which is easily capable of 30mpg on the highway). At forty grand, Hybrids/Electrics are nothing more than PC novelties.
Because a Lotus or used Corvette is so much more practical? You could buy 4 nice snowmobiles for that money too.
Zerofoo: “I would absolutely buy one of these for $20K…”
The Mitsubishi will be closer to your price point.
There is kind of a paradox here in that the Leaf is a good second car for shorter commutes (40 mile RT) but must be used for 15K miles a year for any reasonable hope of payback. 40 miles a day 5 days a week, 52 days a year is only about 10.5 K miles.
You’d have to drive 41 miles a day 365 days a year to reach 15K. Assuming you commute to work 5 days a week and take 10 days off a year ( and don’t drive it on weekends) you have to average 60 miles a day. So, given that you probably ARE going to drive on weekends but less miles, but will probably take more than 10 days a year off, you still are going to have to be dedicated to getting out and USING this car regularly and frequently, forsaking all ( OK, most) others. Note that you won’t be bumping up the mileage with the odd log trip either. It has to be accomplished in little chunks.
The question of depreciation, I suggest is a big swing proposition. One big news story ala the Volt could kill it, as could reliabiity problems in later years, or it could become as good as the Prius’. There will be no ‘average’ depreciation on these.
In summary, as desirable as a Prius is ( I’m toying with the idea myself) I can’t get enthused about either the Leaf or the Volt, or for that matter a Plug-in Prius.
For the record, I’ve had test drives in both the Leaf and the Volt. There was nothing to complain about in the driving experience in either car, and the build quality in both seemed very good, and perhaps even excellent in the Leaf. I have nothing against either car and recommend them to those who feel that they would be suitable. I just don’t see it for my family in Dallas. My wife has a short enough commute but wouldn’t like the hassle of plugging in without fail; it’s the automotive equilalent of cleaning the litter box. Ignore your responsibility at your peril.
Just one man’s opinion.
Lokki,
Yours is a very good point. As gas prices climb, the equation shifts, but for now, the range definitely restricts the payback opportunity.
You are right. The short range will necessarily limit the annual mileage.
You’re right that payback requires significant use of the car.
Most days that you take off you’ll still do some driving. Weekends too, though this may not be as consistent and some times you’ll need a gas car anyhow.
As you get more used to the car’s range you’ll do more odds and ends type driving in the car, even after work. Plug in when you get home; if you need to run to the store two hours later, you’ll have 20 extra miles on the car. Next year when the Leaf has a 6 kW charger standard this will be easier (20 miles charged per hour).
Probably a good rule of thumb is that if your driving patterns don’t let you put 10k miles per year on the car then electric cars aren’t ready for you yet.
I think Steve’s math is overly optimistic in favor of the Leaf, particularly in regard to the tax credits, if I understand the tax credits correctly.
My understanding of a tax credit is you get to reduce your taxable income by the amount of the credit come April. This is not the same as receiving a refund for the amount of the tax credit.
For example, if someone has a taxable income of $50k, this makes their federal tax burden 25% based on 2011 rates. Taxes owed are $12,500.
With a $7,500 federal tax credit, this reduces the taxable income to $42,500. At the 25% rate, taxes owed are now $10,625.
The difference between your tax burden before and after the $7,500 credit is now $1,875 ($12,500-$10,625). This is what you are actually saving with a $7,500 federal tax credit in the above example.
On the other elements of Steve’s analysis:
I think 15,000 miles per year is a high estimate for a car with the limited range of the leaf. At the high end of Steve’s recommended usage for the Leaf: 60 miles per day * 243 work days per year (50 weeks less 7 paid holidays) = 14,580 miles in commuting only. Errands, and other personal trips will easily push that past 15,000 miles, but then you are also beyond the comfortable range of the Leaf. I suspect most ideal potential Leaf customers drive significantly less than 15,000 per year. This pushes the math further in favor of the Versa.
Finally, it’s worth noting that although Steve does allow for variance in electric rates, the US average residential rate in 2010 was 11.6 cents/kWh.
If I’m correct in my understanding of how the tax deductions work, Steve’s math has grossly underestimated the price difference between the Versa and Leaf. I’m no tax attorney and math is not my strong point either. If I’m way off here, let me know.
I believe you’re mistaken about the nature of tax credits. Tax credits apply directly, dollar for dollar, to reduce the taxes you owe, as opposed to tax deductions which reduce the taxable income on which you pay income tax.
Basically, a tax credit works like an immediate refund in the amount of the credit, out of the taxes you would otherwise be paying. I’m not sure if you can get the full EV credit though, if your tax liability before the credit was lower than the amount of the credit.
Burgerbeer, you are confusing a tax deduction with a tax credit.
Tax deductions reduce the gross income that is taxable.
Let’s say you have a $10000 tax deduction on the mortgage interest for your home. If you are in the 28% tax bracket, the amount of taxes that would be reduced would be $2800 ($10,000 x .28).
Tax credits directly reduce the amount that is taxed.
Let’s say you do your 1040 and the net taxes, BEFORE credits, comes to $15,000.
The $7500 tax credit the Federal government provides for the Nissan Leaf would effectively half your tax bill.
On the second part of the analysis, point taken and that’s why I mentioned miles driven as being a prime consideration for purchasing the Leaf.
However… the average travel amount used by the federal government for calculating fuel costs is 15,000 miles. Also on a more anecdotal level, my wife covers this amount of annual driving as well.
15,000 miles a year is well within the range of a lot of drivers. Some do 12k. Others do 18k. Either way the Leaf should provide a substantial cost advantage for those who do city driving in the five figures.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I know either you or Sajeev mentioned having accounting experience in one of your posts so I figured I would get shot down on this. I just couldn’t figure out what I was missing.
Sorry, Leaf. Not this time. I don’t think I have what it takes to be an activist through consumerism.
A couple of points:
1) The tax credit is a direct reduction of taxes owed, not a reduction of taxable income, so you can reduce your federal tax bill by $7500. If you don’t pay $7500 in federal taxes, then you just get to pay no tax. There was talk about making this a “refundable” tax credit, where they’d actually cut you a check if you paid less in taxes, but I don’t believe that’s gone anywhere.
2) Based on Steve’s calculations, the electricity cost would be $265.50 per year for 15,000 miles. He used the electricity cost from fueleconomy.gov, which uses a national average, and likely allows for some charging losses, to get to the $612 per year. That makes it a more reasonable estimate of what most US residents would pay.
The Leaf doesn’t make much financial sense for most people. But if you like the idea, it meets your needs, and you’re willing to pay an extra $6000 or more now that you’ll maybe get back bit by bit in savings as you drive it, then it might not be a completely irrational choice.
“The Leaf doesn’t make much financial sense for most people.”
There are 309,000,000 people in the United States. If they can get 100,000 of them it’s a home run. That is about one third of one percent (including the children).
They MIGHT sell 100K a year, but it’s not a lock. Sorry for not posting links but my NOOKcolor that I’m posting from just makes that too much trouble and anyhow my research is pretty quick and dirty. Last year the average income of a Leaf buyer was $125K. That income and above are roughly 5% of the population…then subtract those who want but can’t use a Leaf, then subtract those who don’t want one at all, then subtract those who might buy but choose a Volt or Prius instead. Then subtract those who aren’t in the car market in any given year. The numbers fall off pretty fast as the competition in the arena keeps increasing. Remember that the number of people who actually understand and care about the distinctions between a Prius, a Volt, and a Leaf is pretty small. I don’t see anything like 100K in demand in the next 5 years even with $5 gas.
Sorry, Leaf. Not this time. I don’t think I have what it takes to be an activist through consumerism.
Otherwise, I liked the article.
Move to the Pacific Northwest.
No Arab dictators. No Russian mafia. No South American dictators.
Just good ‘ol Alaskan north slope crude, shipped by pipeline and tanker to refineries in the great state of Washington where it is distributed to Washington, most of Idaho, Oregon, and northern California.
Less than 10% of the crude oil processed here comes from foreign sources, and most of that comes from the great white north. Oh Canada…
Oh – and if you have your Leaf you can sleep better knowing it is salmon killing native American heart breaking hydro electricity that powers it.
Note that Steve is doing the calculation using $3.50 as the gas price. As of this week, the gas price is ~$4.29 here in CA. As to where gas price will go in the next 5 years- who knows.
The Leaf doesn’t just make good financial sense because of the expected 5 yr payback window. It also makes good economic sense because it is a hedge- an insurance policy – against future gas price increases. In fact, if you are an evil a-hole like me, you’d probably rejoice when gas prices increase, just so you could laugh at all those poor souls with their faces all scrunched up looking at the gas station price signs.
Mmmmm..hydrocarbon Schadenfreude.
Good point about the value of the hedge. I might be willing to bite in 3-5 years when the battery degradation is a known factor.
I’m not buying one until the range and charging time come close to ICE standards, and/or until gasoline prices get ridiculous. I have too many days that go well beyond the Leaf’s range. But the more people who buy these thigns, thus saving on precious hydrocarbons, the better.
I don’t understand the rear styling. Distinctive, yes, and maybe that is a marketing imperative. To my mind, why did they not extend the interior envelope to the edge of the vehicle’s footprint?
Seems rather space inefficient.
I own 2 home converted electric bikes. By law they are limited to 20 mph but even with only 500 watt motors the feeling of quiet acceleration is a fun rush. They have a 30 mile range which is 2 round trips to work. I sometimes pedal a little when starting for exercise and to extend the range.
Manufacturers and college labs are improving batteries at an amazing pace. It is hard but fun trying to keep up as a back yard mechanic.
Even if each of us had our own oil well in the back yard I think many people would prefer the quiet smooth rush of an electric vehicle.
Check out the Dutch built 250 KPH electric super bus the Arabs bought with your gas money.
Electricity still has to come from somewhere to recharge the EVs. ATM I don’t know what’s the mix in US supply: hydro, thermal, nuke, wind, solar, unicorn farts, whatever… but I’m sure some significant money still goes to feed US-“friendly” governments.
And although I can see a point of using a vehicle like this for a short commute, the fact that fuel is still going to be burned to produce the electricity makes me think this is only a PC replacement of an inefficient artifact with a slightly more efficient one. Electricity generation and transmission is not a 0 entropy process so…
Where your juice comes from by state (through 2010, latest avail):
http://www.eia.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epa_sprdshts.html
How many families don’t have more than one car? I think we have more registered vehicles than drives in the US.
If most or all family members have short commutes, an EV would certainly make a highly practical second car. The price point of the Mitsubishi is very temptimg; at that price point, payback becomes much less of an issue (they are advertising something like $29K… $22K or thereabouts after givebacks).
However, here in Frostbite Fall, Minnesota, there’s something to be said for the availability of waste heat from an internal combustion engine.
The thing that surprises me about the Leaf is how well it actually works as… you know, a car, not a science experiment.
It is too expensive for me, but I applaud the early adopters who will help drive the price down. I am really looking forward to seeing this car’s successor. If they could give it just a little more range and a price that’s a bit lower, it could be a real alternative for many people.
I think that the “magic number” would be 100 miles range “worst case”, with heat or A/C running (but not driving like Tony Stewart :-) – a nice round number that a lot of people would respond to. At present, the possibility that harsh conditions and climate control use can drop the range to 50-60 miles just scares too many people (including me, even though my commute is much lass than that).
My daily commute is 18 miles round trip, this would work for me range-wise. I also like the hatchback and good space utilization (the best thing about the Prius is its hatchback, why doesn’t Toyota sell a hatch or wagon corolla or camry?).
The problem is cost, about 2X more than a small commuter like the one I drive.
Regarding tax-credits: with enough subsidies anything can look competitive. Heck I could be a line-man in the NFL if they just let me drive a bulldozer. But someone has to pay this, in this case added to fed deficit.
Battery life will depend on two things.. the temperatures where you live and how far you drive everyday. Nissan has said several times they expect the average to be 10 years.
If you drive so far everyday that you discharge the battery nearly 100% then that will shorten its life.. the magic number is around 60 miles a day to prolong its life.
I suspect people in Phoenix and Las Vegas will enjoy a shorter battery life.
I was going to nit-pick your economic analysis until I realized I was wasting my time.
The correct answer is that the the subsidies, whether from your Uncle Bob or your Uncle Sam, are not relevant to an economic analysis. The car costs what it costs, and provides the services that it provides, regardless of who puts the downstroke on the table. It is just a financing mechanism, and you will pay for it at the dealer or at the post office on April 15.
That said, even assuming that the Leaf will be available with the same sorts of incentives and discounts as the Versa gets now, it costs more than $20,000 more than the Versa.
At $4/gal., $20,000 will buy 5000 gallons of gasoline that will move a Versa 150,000 miles.
At 150,000 mi, I think we can safely assume the Leaf will need a battery replacement for about $20,000 (Wikipedia says the battery pack costs Nissan about $18,000). Of course, you don’t have to sink that kind of coin into a battery, you can just junk the car with no residual value.
So the ten year chart on the Versa is $20K to buy, $20K gas, less a residual value of $2000 or $38K total for 150,000 mi over 10 years.
The Leaf costs about $40K to buy, will consume $6,000 of electricity, and will have no residual value. So the 10 year total is $46K.
An $8,000 win for gasoline.
The Tax credits definitely matter, I’m sure you take advantage of every tax break when you file.
Its hard to compare a Versa with a Leaf, the Leaf is a much larger car with higher tech options.
Tax credits are a financing gimmick, and given the state of the countries budget, they may not be available for much longer, but they are not relevant to the purpose of analyzing the economics of ownership. Those do not change because of financing.
I didn’t pick the Versa as the comparison, Mr. Lang did. OTOH, they are both compact cars from Nissan, and the EPA interior volume of the Versa is 112.5 cu.ft. and for the Leaf it is 112.8 cu.ft. I don’t think that is much bigger. The Sentra is a little bit bigger than the Versa, but it is not available in Hatchback.
One problem with electric cars (unless I’m misinformed) is that you can only keep one if you have a garage space for it. It must be charged indoors for all practical purposes, right? I park on the street, as do so many other potential buyers. Otherwise I love the idea of an electric, and the Leaf seems like the best/most practical yet.