If there ever was a day to wave the white flag, it was today…
A 1999 Lincoln Continental in gold with 75,000 miles went for the jaw dropping price of $4900 after the auction fee.
A 1998 Olds Intrigue in the tannest shade of brown, 135k, cloth seats… $3350.
A 2002 Ford Crown Vic with plenty of chipped paint and 173k, $4000 even.
That was just a couple of samples of irrational exuberance on the domestic front… and keep in mind these were pre-recon prices. Trade-in vehicles without a spiff, a repair or a shine.
These were only the tip of the rough iceberg. The imports which are usually in far higher demand were far, far worse.
On the European front there was a 1999 Saab 9-5 SE with completely faded paint on the roof and enough lights on the dash to enjoy an early Christmas in late May. $3350 for that one.
If you wanted a higher end BMW 6-Series from the good old days of 2008, there was one with only 58,000 miles. Prior fleet. Customized interior. $21,500. That one may have been the deal of the day if it weren’t for all the interior scratches and the wore out seats.
Finally there was what I call Toyonda-mania. A financially crippling disease that re-emerges during tax season when every open minded consumer with a tax refund is willing to consider any vehicle in the market. As long as it’s a Toyota or a Honda.
Forget antibiotics. I needed a breathalyzer by the time today was done.
1999 Toyota Camry: Low end LE model, wheel covers, 175k $4550
2006 Scion Xb: Base, automatic, accident history, frame damage, 63k: $7800
1995 Honda Civic DX: Pink, 219k, frame damage, as wore out as an old mop… but an automatic!!! : $2450
I managed to get a grand total of 1 vehicle today. Surprisingly enough, it was a pretty good deal.
The pre-auction conversation went like this:
Dealer Rep: Hey Steve. We’re getting ready to move this vehicle. It’s going to be an inop.
Me: What’s wrong with it?
DR: I don’t know. It was able to start when we brought it in.
The vehicle in question was a 2002 Chrysler Town & Country. Nothing special. Tape player. Rear Air. Dents, dings, and miles unknown since the dash wouldn’t light up. The steering column had been taken apart and the sole key for it apparently wouldn’t turn. So they got tired of playing with it and had it pushed to the side of the sale.
The regular auctioneer was out and today the folks who hosted the sale decided to arrange for a buffet table full of fried decaying animal carcassses and coffee. I guess I’m the only dealer who didn’t eat the 550 degree cancer bombs because when the relief auctioneer lowered the bid all the way to $500… I was the only one who offered a fist on my side which meant ‘Hold me!’ in implicit auction speak.
11 seconds later the vehicle was all mine for $500 plus a $60 auction fee. I played around with the ignition lock cylinder. Got it to start, and even had one of the auction’s employees drive it out of the gate before the sale ended. This thing may be an electric nightmare in waiting since the instrument cluster won’t even work at this point. But we’ll see.
It beats paying retail, which seems to be the only price you can pay for a car these days.
…2006 Scion Xb: Base, automatic, accident history, frame damage, 63k: $7800…
The world is truly insane.
Well, that makes my clean ’05 5-speed with 53k worth somewhat more than $7800. I’m tempted to throw it on CL for $10k, just to see what happens.
Since I paid $11,500 for it 3 years (and 30k) ago, that could make for the lowest TCO ever.
Maybe when I see the reviews for the forthcoming Chevrolet Spark. The Scion is getting a bit too big for me.
Frame damage or not it is still a Toyota and will serve another 300K miles and 10 years without any problems. Actually is very good deal.
“Frame damage or not it is still a Toyota and will serve another 300K miles and 10 years without any problems. Actually is very good deal.”
Hoping this is sarcasm.
I’m not sure what the laws are in GA, but here in PA we couldn’t sell frame damaged vehicles, IIRC it was the only thing you could automatically win in arbitration.
…Hoping this is sarcasm…
They return to the showroom like spawning salmon. Anyone that blindly buys a Toyota Corolla today without doing any cross shopping has rocks in their head. The Kia Soul is what the Scion xB used to be, and better.
“The Kia Soul is what the Scion xB used to be, and better.”
I fell for that particular fantasy in 2009 on a 20K mile 2008 Kia that I recommended to my landlady and a new Kia I recommended to a friend at the same time. It wasn’t true then, just like it wasn’t true in 1999, and almost certainly isn’t true today. Read the magazines’ extended tests of Hyundais. They’re still not Toyotas, neither are Fords or Buicks.
I agree cross shopping is important, but they buyers need to ask themselves what length of time/miles to they plan on owning the car. I am no Corolla fan but they have a more proven track record than the Soul, or Kia as a brand for that matter. If someone plans on doing the 10yr/12K mile thing, the Kia may not be the better choice, unless of course you as a buyer see Kia/Hyundai becoming the next Toyota and your trade will be worth serious dough.
@Inside Looking Out
You are what is wrong with America.
So you think because it is a Toyota that it is going to make it to 363k without any problems? Whether that it is true or not, this is very clearly not a good deal for a 6-7 year old frame damaged car as 1) a new one can be had for $17k if you pay full retail, and 2) this was a wholesale, the guy who bought it is going to have to clean it up and try to make money selling it.
63K Toyota with frame damage is still better proposition than brand new Ford or GM, or BMW for that matter. Why? Because it is a Japanese car first and it is a TOYOTA second. Think about it again – it is a TOYOTA. It is designed by Toyota, it is made by Toyota, it was serviced by Toyota dealer. What a perfect combination. I do not know why it is a such difficult concept for some to grasp. Do not tell me you would rather go out and buy piece of junk like brand new Ford Focus or Chevrolet Cruze rather than 63K Toyota with frame damage or not.
Sorry, but nothing that’s been bashed in hard enough to bend the frame is worth $7800. That’s just rediculous. I’m sure whomever traded it in didn’t get anything near a third that much money.
“63K Toyota with frame damage is still better proposition than brand new Ford or GM, or BMW for that matter”
Respectfully, that’s just an ignorant statement. No car with frame damage is better than one without, or perhaps you’ve never driven one with frame damage and never had to oversteer in order to keep the car from drifting off the road. On another note, while Toyota has put together some decent rides over the years, they are by no means not without fault. The Japanese automotive machine has already begun to show cracks in the past ten years, remember heavy is the head that wears the crown.
In its class Scion is perhaps better than the comparable Daewoo… oops… Chevy Spark or Ford Fiesta, but a used car around 60K is starting to come up with needed maintenance such as tranny/coolant flush, fuel filter, potential timing belt, tires, brakes, and alignment. If 8K is wholesale, retail must be around $10995-$11995. How is $11-12K for a used (probably R-title) car better than 15-16K for a new one?
Lay off the Kool-aide friend.
you got to be kidding me!
Consider brand new Ford which costs 16K and will run into major problems after 150K miles. Now you have a superior Toyota which costs only 8K with only 63K miles. Toyota at this mileage is like brand new car and you will drive it for another 190K miles. So what is better – Toyota for $8K with superior Japanese engineering which you will drive 190K miles without problems or American designed POS which costs 16K and which you will drive only 150K mile without major problems.
Considering I paid $6625 for my ’04 with 92K back in ’07, I’m wondering if I’d be able to turn a profit on it today even with 172K.
Not that I would sell that car for any reason except to swap it for a newer and/or lower mileage ’04-’06 xB. It has been the best car I ever bought, bar none.
The auto world is descending into madness… frame damaged anything for almost 8K… 99 Camry LE 175K for 45 bucks [?] (is this a public auction?) 99 Continental with V8, air ride, and wrong wheel drive for 5K [?!?]… did gas take a big dip that I missed? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot indeed.
Maybe for America, maybe not for some third world location.
That’s what I thought. 63k mile, 7 year old Scion shoebox for $8k WITHOUT frame damage is hilarious, but WITH?
I hate my fellow Americans, pretty much all of them.
Do you think your innate sense of what a car should cost could ever just rebel at the prices at auction so that you just didn’t participate?
I’m picturing you looking at (for example) that run of ridiculous Toyotas and saying “this is just a ripoff, it’s not worth it” and some smug salesman responding “it’s what the market will bear, Steve.”
The car I bought was the first one to sell. It didn’t go through the lane. The auctioneer did his pre-auction announcements and then did his bid calling for that unit on the stand while the vehicle was sitting outside.
For the next hour I saw vehicles go by and didn’t come within a thousand dollars of the final bid.
I am seriously considering taking the ENTIRE MONTH OF JUNE off as it relates to buying cars at auctions. More than likely, I will use other inventory sources and see if that helps at all.
The good news is I’ve already made a lot of deals. The bad news is that this side of the business is tilting heavily towards the unsustainable.
You can’t fight finance companies that only show paper profits and export firms that are rumored to be little more than glorified money laundering operations.
There is no way this can last…
Steve, just curious. Do you consider going out of your area to other states or buying from someone you trust and having them trucked in ? This is such a regional thing, I would think prices would be lower in more depressed areas.
It depends on what you’re looking for…
Most of what I buy are sleds. Vehicles that typically go for $5000 or less. Florida used to be a pretty good market for that type of vehicle while Alabama represented the strongest ‘sled’ market on the East Coast.
With that being said, the only axiom that I believe still applies to today’s market is that the west coast usually has the highest ‘average’ price while the more depressed market is… maybe… Michigan.
Then again you also have Manheim vs Adesa vs. the independents. Dealer vs. public vs. salvage. Title pawns vs. the all too few new car and independent dealers that still wholesale. Craigslist vs. the impound lots.
The better market? After doing this a long, long time I think you just have to be at the right place at the right time.
That and don’t expect a $4000 car to be perfect. Most members of the general public don’t realize that cheap cars will often require minor maintenance or cosmetic work even after they buy them.
I think Steve is right that MI has, on the face of it, comparatively low prices. But keep in mind the sad shape vehicles are in after 10 years on our roads. Case in point is my wife’s ’03 Sienna — one owner, maintained by the book etc… aside from 138k, this should be a cream puff. It isn’t.
Looks good from 30 ft, but rust is starting to form in the wheel well, where a stone chip made a scratch…. there is rust on the leading edge of the hood, and on the inside of the tailgate… that’s on a Toyota that was designed before the cost cutting got out of hand. Hood release and sliding door mechanism have needed attention and only work because my trusted shop gets it every spring and greases everything in sight.
I’d like to turn the question around: If I were inclined to take a few days of vacation in the late fall and head somewhere rust-free to buy a nice winter beater, where should I go? Apparently not Atlanta…
Where/when does one go to buy a nice clean Panther? A low-mile conversion van? Or simply a low-budget driver, like a Prizm or Vibe or Villager?
I need to get my Civic to this auction! 1993 Civic DX, 220k, auto, no frame damage, clean interior. I would gladly sell it for $2450.
These prices are insane. I’d love to see what prices these units actually went for at retail. How many Greater Fools are there??
Here in L.A., I occasionally survey the car rental company “for sale” sites. I am struck by high mileage of the for sale units. Years ago, big rental companies flushed out units with over 20K on the clock, sometimes selling units with miles in the low teens. Now there are two year old units with mileage approaching 50 K and VERY few with mileage in the 20K range.
A few weeks ago I saw a two year old Camry offered on a rental company web site for $400 less than NEW 2012s were advertised for in the Sunday Los Angeles Times.
Steve, perhaps you should be buying new cars, running the odometer FORWARD, and selling them as used!
Most of these seem high but the ’99 Crown Vic with 75k miles for $4900 doesn’t seem that high compared to a ’97 Camry with 235k miles selling for $350 less. IMO these high auction prices suggest inflation is higher than our government wants to admit. It’s almost impossible for the average consumer to get a decent used car for under $5k these days. And yes, 3-5 year old used cars have been insanely overvalued for the past few years. Last year I went car shopping for a Nissan product. The best price I could find for 2-3 year old used examples with 30-40k miles was $3-4k less than I paid for my brand new car with a full warranty.
Wow, those really do look like straight up retail, which begs the question as to what the eventual actual retail price will be. Glad I’m not in the market for a used car right now.
I’m in the greater Salt Lake City metro area and the market here is crazy high also. Many. many high mileage cars on the market and people want dealer retail and over. I have been in the market for two months and private sellers get highly insulted if you offer any where near Edmunds “true market value” for private party.
A lot of good questions.
You are resourceful and I know you will find the best answer(s). When you do, I will be looking forward to hearing.
Holy smokes. If that ’99 175K Dustbuster Camry went for 4,550 it makes me wonder what I could get for a ’94 basic Camry LE auto 4cyl with only 45,000 miles on it and in perfect* condition. WTF, I’ll start at $4,995.
*aside from the bruised front bumper thanks to too many cocktails last night and a wall that was closer than it looked I mean… but it’s only about the size of a dime.
A 20 year old car is not in “perfect” condition by anybody’s book.
He might be able to turn 5K on Craigslist evidently some markets are desperate for running cars and a clean Camry may get some attention, even a ’94. Think, a ’99 is only five years newer and no car with 175K could be considered clean by auction standards (avg or rough).
18 years old. Garaged all its life. Barely driven by my elderly mom. Considering its age, maintenance history and low mileage, yes, perfect, for a 1994 Camry in 2012.
BTW, the reason I’m thinking of selling it is I have two cars, and the other one is in fine shape but essentially worthless (1991 Volvo 240, 5-spd, 157K miles), and as a single person dealing with two cars in a home that only has room for one (one is parked at work when driving the other) it’s a pain in the ass. The Camry will never be worth more.
This insanity is because of the 1%-ers.
As more and more people are forced into a society of bottom feeders, the supply and demand economics really work well here.
Think about it….
Well, first of all, your equation of people who want inexpensive cars and bottom feeders is a bit offensive. But regardless of that, you’re making quite a few unexplained leaps. A strong used car market is at least partially a response to a decade when they would give anyone easy credit to move the metal. That dried up, and so a lot of people who before were saddling themselves with 400/mo payments on a Chevy Cobalt are now actually buying cars they can legitimately afford. I don’t see that as a bad thing for them or for the country. There’s this weird expectation that everyone ought to be able to be able to have their own house and a new car and nice clothes and all the rest. This is an idea that got into people’s heads because it was so easy to borrow as much money as we wanted. See where it got us.
As a result of how easy it was to get a new car and how many were being sold, a huge and unwarranted gap opened up between the new and used car markets. That gap is being closed. Buying a used car is no longer the clear cut massively superior financial decision it was 5 years ago. Once again, I don’t see that as a bad thing.
Basically I see this as a return to sanity.
I question if going from a GMAC loan on a new car that you can’t afford to a pawn or BHPH loan that you still can’t afford is really good for buyers or a return to sanity.
These auction prices are so high because the purchasing dealers can earn a bunch on in-house financing. People aren’t giving up auto debt they are just shifting the source.
From my 2 anecdotal examples this weekend alone:
Saw a 3-year-old Nissan Cube with 42k miles selling at $14,000. (MSRP for a brand new one is about the same).
A friend just paid $18,000 for a Jetta TDI with 80k miles. And that’s after a lot of haggling and taking it in the shorts on a trade-in.
If that’s sanity, I’ll go back to being insane.
The financing on a 5 grand note, even with high interest, might run for two years of 350/mo or three years of 200/mo. (Those are off the cuff estimates).
Beats the hell out of being on the hook for 6 years for the same monthly payment.
As far as that Cube goes, what trim was it? Since you can easily spend 20000+ on a Cube, it’s not necessarily crazy.
Same with the TDI, though if that was such a horrid deal a brand new Cruze is easily available. And for five grand more, there’s always the option of buying a new one…
There’s really no reason that a car that has used 15-20% of its useful life should depreciate 60% off the sales price. I’m not saying that the current situation is great, but it’s a necessary reaction to recent events. Right now the clear choice, if you can do it, is buy new. I think it will stabilize somewhere in the middle, where it’s a debatable choice between used/new.
You make some good points about what some people had been up to with the easy credit, and how it’s come to an end. However those who maxed out their credit for new autos created the large pool of reasonable priced used vehicles for those of us who were already living in a responsible financial reality. I see it as too many kids in the pool at the moment, and I honestly see no end to it within the next five years. Cash for Clunkers really hurt the used car market, it will take years to shore up the numbers of 2010+ autos floating around until used prices come down.
Ya, I bought my last car used with cash because I’m a bottom feeder.
“The financing on a 5 grand note, even with high interest, might run for two years of 350/mo or three years of 200/mo. (Those are off the cuff estimates).
Beats the hell out of being on the hook for 6 years for the same monthly payment.”
___________________
With one scenario you WAY overpaid for a 2012 Corolla that now has around 63K miles. With the over scenrio you WAY overpaid for a 1999 Camry that now has around 200K miles.
Going with the guillotine beats the hell out of electing the Brazen Bull, but the end result is going to be the same.
I hope you’re right that things will eventually stabilize instead of just swinging from one extreme to the other.
@toxicroach
I agree 100%.
I sold my 2010 Kia Forte EX for $13,500 about 8 months ago. I paid $15,700 for it just a year prior, brand new. I got the 13.5 in TRADE by the way, not private party. I don’t even want to know what they sold that thing for on the lot…
Buy new, people.
I do agree, between the financial meltdown caused by said elites destroying jobs and halving auto production a few years back, and the administration of 1%’ers destroying tens of thousands of ‘clunkers’ around the same time, an artificial used car shortage was created. Oh and please whatever your politics its difficult to argue members of *any* Presidential administration are not ‘elite 1%’ers’.
Obama is apparently worth about $8 million while Mitten is worth even more. So yeah, no presidential candidate will ever be an average guy earning less than about $60000 per year. Buying an election costs a lot of money so it’s not for poor/average people.
Life not going your way? Want attention? Want people to think you know what you’re talking about? Drop a “1% reference.”
This insanity is because of the 1%-ers.
As more and more people are forced into a society of bottom feeders, the supply and demand economics really work well here.
Think about it….
I refuse to buy any vehicle now. I’m planning on getting getting 200,000 miles out of what I own now or die, whichever comes first. I will not be part of the problem.
High prices in a free market like the used car market typically come from too many buyers chasing too little supply–in late 2008/early 2009 used car prices were cheap because there was high supply with few buyers. The used car market is actually a fairly rational, little regulated market. I’m not sure what the “1%” has to do with the high cost of used cars today. The prices we’re seeing today are the result of going from 16-17 million new cars sold each year to 9 million in 2009 almost overnight–a decrease in the supply of new cars ultimately results in a decrease in the supply of available used cars down the road (also known as now). In a few years when the new cars of today become the used cars of tomorrow, because of our higher selling rates prices should come down unless something comes along to reduce the supply of used cars again like Cash for Clunkers that removes otherwise usable cars from the marketplace.
In the meantime this may be a great time to sell a used car as long as you’re not going to replace it with another used car.
I understand low new car sales in 2008-09 affecting the prices of 3-4 year old used cars. But what is driving prices of 15 year old Camrys up to crazy levels? Is it because C4C took a bunch of 15 year old Town Cars and Devilles and Explorers out of the market so the low end buyers are fighting over what is left?
Steve, would this time of year be better to sell my 98 3.2TL with 140k (great mech condition, great interior, decent exterior)? I was thinking of waiting till fall.
If it’s in great condition then keep it. My philosophy during times like this comes out to six words.
Don’t spend money. Don’t buy anything.
Wise.
This is as good a time as any to sell – tax refund season ends soon and it’s a Honda.
Are you going to replace it? If used cars sell for this much right now, the depreciation on a modest and interesting new car is going to be very light.
1999 Toyota Camry: Low end LE model, wheel covers, 175k $4550 Wow, my friend bought one of these in college, a 98 model, for $5000, about 7 years ago, in a LOT better condition.
Still has it to this day, I should show him this so he can sell his for a profit.
Are there any interesting Wranglers at those auctions? Like an LJ?
Yes.
Help is on the way. I see a lot of leases with idiotic residuals. Subaru is pushing Imprezas HARD, with good money factors and 3-year residuals above sixty percent. Subies are strong used, but I doubt they’re THAT strong.
GM is offering 24-month, zero-down leases on Verano and Cruze… plus “Memorial Day” money.. plus they’re starting to push rebates to old guys like me who have the old “blue” GM Card. I could buy a Silverado work truck — well, I could lease it, then buy out the lease — for $14,xxx. That’s on a truck with a sticker of close to $24.
It’s starting to feel like 2007 again, and not in a good way. My guess is in a couple years at the latest, the craziness is going to subside and used cars will make sense again. Until then… hold on tight and enjoy the ride.
Help is on the way. I see a lot of leases with idiotic residuals. Subaru is pushing Imprezas HARD, with good money factors and 3-year residuals above sixty percent. Subies are strong used, but I doubt they’re THAT strong.
GM is offering 24-month, zero-down leases on Verano and Cruze… plus “Memorial Day” money.. plus they’re starting to push rebates to old guys like me who have the “blue” GM Card. I could buy a Silverado work truck — well, I could lease it, then buy out the lease — for $14,xxx. That’s on a truck with a sticker of close to $24. I could lease a Regal — built in Ruesselsheim, 20 minutes from where I grew up — for $250/month, nothing down… too bad I don’t need a car, that’s cheap… nice car, too….
It’s starting to feel like 2007 again, and not in a good way. My guess is in a couple years at the latest, the craziness is going to subside and used cars will make sense again. Until then… hold on tight and enjoy the ride.
At least the Crown Vic and the Intrigue (if it has the 3800) could be thought of as reliable, but the Continental was thought of as a nightmare almost as soon as it left the showroom floor.
All ’98 Intrigues came with the 3800.
Even though I think it has too many camshafts for a GM car, I don’t know that the Shortstar really falls into the AVOID FOREVER category like its early 4.6l kin.
Not to be too cynical but it had to have been a 3800 model, the Shortstar powered ones are gone. How many Auroras have you seen running about lately? Some people will put up with Northstar madness out of Cadillacs because they like the idea of a Cadillac. Who would put up with trouble from orphaned models of a discontinued brand?
All of you are looking at the wrong thing…
These cars are not going to be sold for cash.
They will be financed for many, many years. One of the strengths of this particular auction is that they enable large scale buy-here pay-here operations to buy a large swath of vehicles with guarantees as to their overall condition.
The movers of this market are looking to get 20 good sleds. The notes are carried by finance companies, or in-house, and often times packaged and re-sold to other investors.
Here is a brilliant article that covers the basics…
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/01/business/la-fi-buyhere-payhere-day-two-20111101
Forgive my ignorance, but where do these cars come from? What are the channels that get a car into these auctions?
This auction primarily gets trade-ins from the general public.
However I am noticing that many of the vehicles have recent liens from title pawns. I am beginning to wonder whether they now have partnerships with local firms involved in that line of business.
It’s doubtful… but you never know…
I cannot fathom financing a 20 year old car. That may be because I live in a city with decent public transit options.
I know that interest rates are really low right now, but I doubt that the buy-here pay-here places are offering low rates.
“often times packaged and re-sold to other investors.”
Steve I see a direct correlation between this practice (and attitude) and the financial crisis. I’m no expert but what what I read about the sub prime mortgages this is exactly what was done with them, they were sliced and diced into neat packages sold to outside investors from mortgage firms. What if suddenly a whole swath of buy-here pay-here customers stopped paying their notes, such as what happened with mortgages. Unlike properties, cars can disappear much easier, and its tougher to find a buyer for a rough bhph repo… is it possible for there be a similar financial ‘crisis’ here?
Saab SE was around $1,000 of the same year Camry with wheel covers?
Once Saabs get past the 10 year or 100k mark they tend to be priced lower than most Corollas with similar age/mileage.
The Saab at 13 years old should have been almost half that selling price. I hope she clean with records.
That’s because Saabs SUCK. The 2 we’ve owned (86 9000T and 00 9-5) were the worst cars we’ve ever had. Electrical problems right and left, both left us stranded more than once, blown turbos, etc. I wouldn’t drive any Saab if it was given to me for free.
Saab 9-5 is the best deal going for a big and a half. That’s if you know what your looking for as with most full feature, near luxury cars built in the 1990’s.
1999 Toyota Camry: Low end LE model, wheel covers, 175k $4550
Fer crying out loud. I remember selling my pristine condition 99 Camry LE with not even a scratch inside and out for the same amount @ 90k miles – 4 years ago.
It’s all about the financing, just moved from new iron to used iron.
There’s a bunch of commercials here in Indianapolis for an outfit called DriveTime that transforms reviled used car salesmen into lovable social workers.
Between this and skyrocketing tuitions it looks like we’re not done popping bubbles quite yet
+1
I think the used market will eventually sort itself out, tuition debt on the other hand…
“…we’re not done popping bubbles quite yet”
You just have to take advantage of them while you can. I’ve bought a few used cars and trucks off the lemon lot at the nearby airbase and resold them for more money than I paid for them.
I sell mostly to illegal aliens in my area because New Mexico is one of the few states that issues drivers licenses to illegal aliens, and those folks are underserved by dealers and banks. But their cash money is as good as anyone else’s cash money. And they need transportation too.
Used cars will continue to cost a lot more because the demand for them is much higher than it used to be, and C4C put a big dent in supply-availability because so many good used cars were destroyed.
Dealers are taking fewer used cars in trade because individuals can sell their used cars for more than a dealer can allow on trade. It’s a sellers’ market!
You just have to take advantage of it. But if you are in the market for used, be prepared to pay big bucks for old cars, even more for old trucks.
Steve: I am still willing to help convoy some of those sweet panther Interceptors out of town.
Been looking for a 1st Gen Honda CR-V like the one I had to sell on my last day there before moving (My leaving Las Vegas is much more boring and does not involve Elizabeth Shue). Bought it Chicago Burbs in ’07 for $5500 with the sales person running after me as I got in my Panther to leave. A few little small dents, a little ripple in the fender but 92k and a maintenance history (and a romance story if you put the names and towns on the receipts together). Nowadays I am looking at the same car (often the same color) with 150k for the same price. Did the rules of age, mileage and depreciation go away?
Carl, I ask myself the same question. Did Uncle Ben dump *that* much inflation on us?
Good Ole “Crazy Uncle Ben”. If you only knew.
Seems just about every family has a crazy uncle…..but jeez, does the entire USofA deserve a crazy uncle? It’s gonna get real dicey when the US gets nearer to the Greece situation…..and we will.
i don’t disagree, but do you see the Greek situation inevitable for us, or could it be stemmed by a change in management?
It’s highly unlikely the US will get anywhere near Greece’s troubles. For one, it still has a sovereign currency. For another, serial tax evasion isn’t a recognized sport in the US.
That said, if the US (and a lot of other countries) keep pretending to have a spending problem only, when what they actually have an even bigger revenue problem, then things will be uncomfortable for some time.
“It’s highly unlikely the US will get anywhere near Greece’s troubles”
US may be not but California will certainly do. California is a like a Titanic. It is one party system and and no one is coming to change the course or save the ship – it is destined to wreck – first city by city, then county by county and then the state as a whole. Democrats will never betray public unions and they cannot cut all public serviced and survive. They can sharply increase taxes but good luck with that.
Nope – we just continued to scrap 12.5 million cars a year and demobilize another 1.5 million, while buying 10-12 million for a few years.
Nothing more than supply and demand. The supply went down, the demand went up. If the price didn’t rise then there’s something distorting the market.
The 92-95 Civics still have a ‘cult following’ and are in demand for ‘project cars’. I can see that pinkish Civic getting parted out for much more $$$.
OTHO the ‘rubbermaid’ 97-99 Cam’s are ‘gold’ to recent immigrants looking for a good used car. Euro, Asian, or Latin, they will pay good $ for a 90’s Camry.
And, that old Panther is ‘gold’ to an entry level cab company.
Maybe I missed the Panther, but if you are referring to the 99 Conti from the auction, sadly its not a Panther, its basically a Taurus on steroids.
Steve posted “A 2002 Ford Crown Vic with plenty of chipped paint and 173k, $4000 even.”
Can go to 300k for someone getting a toe hold in cab business. NYC and Chicago have strict laws for city cabs, but many other places don’t.
Yeah, I missed the Panther. Thx for the correction.
On other thing I thought of is Atlanta region is growing faster than most others. Many Northerners are moving there for ‘oppurtunity’ and may need a car fast. Just want wheels “now” and only look at “$ X99 per month”. Aging Toyondas now get buyers that used to get old Yank tanks, and low supply = high prices.
OK This is nuts!!
Steve, I have a 2000 Explorer XLT V6 4×4, essentially the Eddie Bauer without leather and V8. It’s got 132,000 miles. Put tires, shocks, and ball joints in 2009. Rarely ever driven. If someone offers me $5000, I’ll take it.
Am I crazy?
No that might be a smart move. I’ve seen plenty of those at wholesale prices around 3K last year and the year before, the buy-here pay-here crowd around here loved them before gas shot up to $4. If someone just needs a 4×4 for 5K that might be the ticket.
I’ve never seen a Lincoln or Crown Vic that some taxi company couldn’t run into the ground. Thing is, I’ve never seen one run into the ground – THESE THINGS GO FOREVER.
Most cabs I’ve riddden in had 200+ on odometer
What are low mile late model used vechiles going for? I bought my Accord when it was 2 years old with 20,xxx miles on it, off lease but not marked up for the CPO. 4cyl but loaded EX-L 1999 model went for $15k back in early 2001. Inflation calculator says that is about $20k today. I highly doubt there is a 20,000 mile 2 year old accord selling for $20k retail, and even if there were I still think that’s high. Looks like I’m buying new.
You said 2-year old Accord, with 20k miles? Will you take it with an extra 5k?
http://carmax.com/enus/view-car/default.html?AVi=1&id=8226075&D=90&ASTc=2010%20accord&zip=77006&pD=0&pI=0&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=homepage:homepage&Rp=R&PP=50&sV=List&CD=662+14+966+240+398+9&Q=9ee017e6-6c25-4328-ba81-3a89369a4092
I realize that Carmax prices are ridiculous but it’s an indication of what the market is willing to bear. They’re selling a car almost exactly like mine (2009 Kia Rio 5spd with ~52k) for a cool $12k. I bought it in 2010 for ~$8k, with 13k on the clock. They offered to take it off my hands for $7k back when it had only 40k miles… hopefully I can see some of that extra if I look for a private buyer who appreciates service records and fresh tires.
2010 Accords certainly are not worth only $15k. Brand new EX-L-NAV-whatevers are around 30K, so most are listed for low 20’s. It’s not the 90’s anymore.
Everytime I read one of these articles, I simply do not get it. Where are these cars ending up eventually? I have NEVER seen a used car with over 100k on a regular dealer lot. No one I know will pay premium prices for a car with that high of mileage. There are always better options out there with significantly less miles on them, in every ad in every paper I ever see. Used Chevys or Chryslers tend to be the cheapest things out there… $4995, 5995, etc. Private sales are even better, I can find no shortage of “little old lady” specials with low mileage in decent shape for much less than your quoted auction prices.
My guess is, the market has shifted and the auctions no longer represent the “cheap cars” market. Good used cars that get traded in just get detailed and resold. Or never get traded, as many people realize they can sell it themselves for more money and very easily in this market. The only stuff that goes to auction is the traded in dregs, the 200k cars, the beaters, etc. And the only people buying are sticking them on buy-her-pay-here lots that some credit challenged people are forced to shop at. This would explain the insane prices… BHPH lots dont care so much on the price, as they intend to make it up on the financing, the down payments, and the inevitable repo and resell.
Used car prices will remain high as long as there is a shortage. And there currently is a shortage. The shortage may even last as long as five more years yet.
I have been asked repeatedly if I want to sell my wife’s 2008 Highlander, now that she has her 2012 Grand Cherokee. A friend of my granddaughter recently sold her old Cobalt for much more than book value.
I had no problem selling the used cars I bought off the lemon lot at the nearby airbase for more money than I paid for them. GI’s being transferred or getting out of the military often put cars up for sale on the base before they relocate or get out of the service. But those are not available to the general public, only to people with access to that military installation.
As to where all these used cars eventually end up, many that are less than 10 years old end up in Mexico. They tow them, haul them and drive them to Mexico and points further south from Utah, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming, and many of them travel down US54 past where I live.
Others, of all vintages and states of repair, end up in the hands of people who can only afford to buy the least expensive. If you have a spare car or truck, now is a good time to sell it.
Well, in Chicago they are on Cicero, Western, or Pulaski Av/Rd lots. But even some new car dealers have used 2000-04 cars with over 100K listed for ‘bargain’ prices of $4999.
Here in Houston because of so many people living in the burbs and driving ridiculously long commutes there are many cars for sale with very high mileage . When I was shopping for a first gen Xb a couple of years ago the prices were all over the map . Particularly the ones with fun colors and the mood lighting and optional wheels were high .I saw 2006s for up to $13k at a cheesy buy here finance here lot for a car with over 100k miles . I wound up buying mine , a 5-speed with an olive metallic paint color without the wheels , ambient lighting etc. for $6500 cash at a lot owned by an Arab guy who dropped the price from $7k , and said he would have a hard time arranging financing because it had maybe 102k miles . I’ve put 25k miles without spending anything except new brake pads . Incidentally , locally these are quite popular as delivery / work vehicles , due to the room / good mpg .And at least here the prices for first-gen Xbs haven’t changed since then .