One engine. One man. 300,000 miles… and it was only the beginning.
Yesterday I visited an auction where 8% of the vehicles had over 300,000 miles.
I did a double-take when I did the math.
300k = 10 years at 30,000 miles.
If your average speed is 40mph, we’re talking 7500 hours on the road. Take off 10 hours a day for sleeping, eating, hanging out, and ‘refreshing yourself’, and the total amount of time just on the road stretches to nearly 18 months.
That’s an amazing amount of time to spend staring through a windshield.
A lot of folks take longer to get to that goal. 15 years. 20 years. Even 25 years if the weather and the preventive care are strong enough.
We’re at an age where even the worst cars of twenty years ago are still on the road. They’re not even considered ‘old’ in most locales. Just part of a scenery that consists of ever older vehicles. If you keep the older cars of today kept up, they may indeed keep on for the duration.
Which brings on the question… “Is 300k the new 200k?”
The 200,000 mark is still impressive to many people. But I am only giving out a true, “Wow!” when I see a vehicle go past the 350k mark. In my world, old metal is part of the landscape. Your world may be a bit different.
What do you think? Extra credit will be given if you know a kindred frugal soul in your life who has kept their car running past the 300k mark.
Editor’s Note: Questions? Thoughts? Remembrances? I can always be reached at steve.lang @thetruthaboutcars.com
Didn’t quite make it. Got 225,000 miles on a slant-six 1974 Dodge PIckup Truck (D100). Gave it to a monk, who drove it another three years hauling his goats and feed. Then he gave it to a neighboring farmer to haul firewood out of the “back 40”. Wish I’d kept it: tough, inexpensive, and easy to repair.
————
The mechanical systems may last for 300k, but the electronics probably won’t. When your integrated navigation/HVAC/stereo dies and the only source for the part is the dealer/OEM at thousands of dollars, a lot of cars will meet the crusher with sound drive trains but dead electronics.
Does anybody thing that the My Ford Touch system that does not work well when new will be working in 5 or 10 years?
How many old Mercedes and BMW’s that are mechanicly sound get scrapped because the ancillary systems have failed and are too expensive to repair? Middle market cars may meet the same fate. Not many owners will spend $2k+ on new electronics for a car with 150k+ miles on it.
There may be a sound business in supplying affordable substitute electronics for older cars in the future; if that happens 300k cars could be common. If not, off to the crusher.
“There may be a sound business in supplying affordable substitute electronics for older cars in the future;”
Mental note, start such a business and retire early.
Electrical is great, but what about the interior? My girlfriend’s 2003 Sable has the rear doorliners falling off, the leather is discolored and worn, and the exterior has seen better days, too.
I think the argument from a few weeks back about “wanting something more modern” might play out here well before man people get to that mileage mark. Even myself, putting on 22k or so a year, would take 13-15 years to reach the 300k mark, and by then I’d be more than tired with my car.
Yep… the electronics and interior will be long dead before the greasy bits. The LCD display in my ’00 VW Passat dash died around the 70K mark. Headliner, door trim, seat fabric, sunroof switch, cruise control, even the glove box handle had broken in under 10 years (around 90K) time. The car was treated well too, so maybe the Florida heat was to blame?
The most I personally managed was around 160K in a Honda Civic Hatch in under 4 years. It was used as a delivery vehicle for a stationary store as well as my college commuter vehicle. It was in fine condition and thus I assume it could have gone 300K with standard maintenance because it had no fancy electronics… heck it had MANUAL windows and no cruise control!
Think bigger Jeff, I figure depending on how things go in the future the 95-2010 generation of cars may be called upon to really go the distance through multiple owners over their lives. Granted other bits may wear away but I have seen many a Volvo with seat covers over torn leather, different colored seats and different colored door panels tossed in to replace broken components. The current generation of cars are going to live longer on average than anything before them. I think there would be a nice market to find a model which people hang onto (e.g. 00-05 Civic, 92-97 Camry, any 90s+ H-body or W-body 3800s etc) and offer custom built replacement components, electronic or otherwise.
Nothing that a can of Monstaliner and a seat swap won’t fix. Oh wait, I drive a jeep.
I don’t understand why people don’t FIX stuff that breaks in thier cars. So your door trim and sunroof bezel broke? Replace them! That sort of thing is not all that spendy new, and dirt cheap at a junkyard out of a wreck. Then your car doesn’t look and feel like a hooptie. Baffles me that people won’t spend $1000 to fix a car but they have no problem spending $25,000 replacing one.
I have no doubt that either of my daily drivers will go 300K, one is halfway there already and is in perfectly nice shape inside, outside, and under the hood. And that is the one I don’t particularly care about!
@krhodes1: You don’t understand why people don’t fix their own cars or why they bothered buying a car that wasn’t engineered by Europeans in the first place. You don’t why people buy cars to accommodate their children or what possessed them to even want those children.
What you don’t understand could fill an ocean.
Most stores are stationary. At least I have never seen one get up and walk away.
@tufftuff:
If you get rid of the car because the interior is aging, it’s not likely to end up in the junkyard. It’s more likely that *someone* will drive it, just not your girlfriend (or you).
Will it be providing reliable (if somewhat ghetto) transportation for someone who needs a car but can’t afford one with a nice interior? The chances are that it will, as long as it can get someone from point A to point B. For instance, Carfax shows that the $#!ttiest and second least reliable car I’ve ever owned is still registered to someone, and still on the road. Carfax also shows that it hasn’t put a lot of miles on the clock since I sold it, but it’s still worth maintaining for someone. Surprised the snot out of me!
So, the question remains: what is a high-mileage car these days?
Just like tons of mid-1990s Lincoln models, whose engines probably burn oil and knock but still run OK. Point is, their air suspensions fail, sometimes repeatedly… leaving the car slammed-low. Repairs can cost well-beyond the market value of a fully functioning sample.
Yep but somebody could fix it themselves for cheap and keep on rolling. Buy it cheap, fix it with aftermarket parts from the ‘net and put another 100K.
It might not be worth fixing to the owner who paid $30K for it only to have something expensive break at 90K miles but to the guy that paid less than $5K for it, a $500 fix isn’t unimagininable.
What’s the first owner going to do? Go spend $30K on another vehicle to keep from paying for a $1K fix on the old one.
Keeping the old one going seems reasonable to me when considering what the cost of buying the next car is going to be. Same for replacing engines and transmissions. If the rest of the vehicle is good, why throw it out and adopt a car payment?
I don’t care what the resale value book says – the number to consider is what it’s going to cost to replace the car with something else. Considering the resale value just plays into the hands of someone that would like to sell you a car payment.
For mid-’00’s cars, judging from my experience with my ’05 Dodge Dakota that’s rapidly closing in on 100,000 miles, I have to differ. On this pickup I’ve spent plenty of $$ on systems that vehicles have had since the ’60’s, and a fair amount on systems that impact engine emissions. But I have yet to spend a dime on interior electronics.
*If you’re curious, look up repair histories for an ’05 Dodge Dakota on Michael Karesh’s TrueDelta.com… the North Dakota vehicle with the extensive history is mine.
The electronics you speak of have no moving parts to wear out. Just electrons flowing through permanent junctions and barriers as they see fit. I think you are backward on that. This does not apply, of course, to Chrysler and General Messups. I had no electronics troubles on my 222000 mile Accord.
I don’t know about BMWs reliability with electronics. But There are quite a few Mercedes models that have better electronics than BMWs. I have a 2004 Mercedes E320 with 275,000 Miles and it still looks and runs just like the day I bought it. The engine has no ticking sounds, the transmission shifts nice and smooth, doesn’t leak or burn a single drop of oil and has never had any problems with the electronics. All I’ve done is regular oil changes, brake pads, shock absorbers and ball joints as you would with any other high millage cars. And no the parts aren’t expensive. If I order the parts online they cost just like any other car. Honestly all the other cars I’ve seen with over 200,000 miles always have quite a few things wrong with them. Any car will last over 200,000 miles if you maintain them properly.
My 1986 SAAB 900 had 320k+ miles when I sold it 6 years ago.
Original engine, gearbox, clutch. I drove it all over US and Canada, coast to coast and New Orleans to Chisasibi. Nothing broke or malfunctioned in the last 5 years of ownership — just oil and tire changes. It had 1991+ SPG suspension and was a lot of fun to drive. Got 30 mpg on long trips, too.
Excellent winter car, too. Way better than my AWD Subarus in snow.
My 1988 SAAB C900 went 383K before the floorboards rusted thru. It still ran like a top even tho you could see the pavement.
I had a ’91 300D up to 400k, at that point it started to cost me around 2-3k to keep it in good running order a year (in reality, I hit a point where a lot of things needed to be replaced at once). So I traded it in (this past November) when I moved back north….I kick myself during the summer when I don’t have it, but in the winter I don’t miss it one bit.
I’ve been focused on another mark: the amount of miles people expect to go without a major repair. In many cases it now seems to be about 120k, compared to 100k a decade ago.
When I was growing up people didn’t expect cars to last much beyond 100k. The average, based on a survey I conducted a few years ago, is now about 160k, and with some brands going perhaps 15k less and others 15k more. 200k remains somewhat exceptional. For now, 250k is probably a more reasonable upper limit than 300k.
Based on TrueDelta’s regular car reliability survey, about one percent of drivers cover more than 3,000 miles a month. A very small number drive as much as 6k or 7k.
You’re right. My dad’s 10 year old ’62 Rambler was tired and worn out with only 100k in the early ’70s.
It’s also amazing how common 20 year old cars are nowadays. When I purchased a ’57 Chevy Bel-Aire
(with hood flames) in 1976, it got tons of attention and comments wherever I went.
Does anyone notice a car made in ’93?
I notice one every day; my wife’s pitiful 1992 Corolla. 295000 miles and on Hospice care.
I really think that’s more a factor of the value of the car at that point from an insurance standpoint.
My RSX-S was worth roughly $9k with 100k and 8 years on it. a front end crash that caused the airbags to deploy at that point would probably total the car if fixed through insurance.
With the cost of modern safety systems, or even just paint, bodywork and labor, a car with 150k+, or even north of 100k, is one crash away from a junkyard.
That said, based purely on system reliability, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a car to go 300k nowadays. And I would absolutely expect 100k without a major service requirement.
Michael,
I just turned 200K on my 2004 Saturn Ion. The first non maintenance repair was the alternator at 186K last March. Just finisihed the 200K suspension parts replacement consisting of struts, sway bar bushings and rear shocks.
The 2.2L Ecotec engine coupled to the five speed manual tranny still runs like new. Oil consumption is about 1 qt per 3500 miles – the same as when it was new. No fluid leaks of any kind.
It looks like it will easily go another 100K with out major issues. I can’t believe this is a GM product.
A quart of oil every 3500 miles? That’s ridiculous, but not for a GM POS. My Civic uses about 8 ounces of oil in 7500 miles. No matter what.
Kevin,
To each his own. I test drove both the Civic and the Ion and found the Ecotec 2.2 far superior to the Honda mill. There was no comparison on low end torque.
Also, the Ecotec uses a timing chain and not a POS rubber band that Honda uses. So, I’ll gladly swap 1 qt of oil in 3500 miles for an $850 timing belt replacement every 100k miles.
In my former job, I used to cover 2K miles per WEEK! (see post farther down). Thank goodness for a comfortable car and satellite radio!
The car is an ’01 Golf TDI, currently with 435K miles, and the only major items that have broken have been the A/C compressor (the flange holding the clutch, actually) at 181K miles, and the injection pump (still worked, but was losing it’s prime) at 370K miles. I did replace most of the suspension (shocks, struts, tie rod ends, links, LCA bushings, etc) at 350K miles, but that is more of a wear item. Still original engine, trans, turbo, clutch and most everything else. Few minor items such as coolant temp sensor, electric fan motors (both), cassette player and a couple of other minor items have also been replaced.
Felix, our local Honda dealer will change that “POS rubber band” for $350 every 80K miles. Not $850.
87 Nissan hardbody. Had 325k+ when I put it in the auto shop for a blown head gasket. Teacher talked me into rebuilding the engine. A year later it still wasn’t done but it didn’t take much longer. 1.3k more and the engine froze. It’s still sitting in a back pasture.
Junk yard engines are cheap but the @24’s are scarce. Iron blocks and aluminum heads did in a bunch of them. Guess I was just lucky.
I expect I would still be driving it if I had limited his repairs to the head gasket alone. Instead I bought a plant truck 91 S10 that is a lot more heavy duty and low mileage. Not sure what the future will bring but I am no longer fickle and will keep it till I must dump.
“We’re at an age where even the worst cars of twenty years ago are still on the road.”
Clearly false. Twenty years ago would be 1992. In my area (of extreme cold weather and road salt), it’s very rare to see a 1992 Neon around, considering the sheer quantity back then. Young kids probably never heard of Neon. The most common ones would be 1992 Camries. Also consider that, in Canada, Camry or any other midsizer never topped the sales chart. That’s why Toyota is still world’s No. 1 now.
Yes, I have to say a 1992 Neon would be a truly rare sight. I would think it would be about as rare as a 1982 Camry, a 1962 Mustang, or a 1902 Model T.
There are some areas of the USA where rust issues can overtake a vehicle’s longevity. It’s just that these days, most folks live in places where rust is not the major issue.
Thanks Steve, I needed the laugh today…..
“Clearly false. Twenty years ago would be 1992. In my area (of extreme cold weather and road salt), it’s very rare to see a 1992 Neon around, considering the sheer quantity back then.”
You have to temper your perspective as it’s all geographical; in Florida where there is no salt, freezing temperatures or asinine government mandated inspection laws, I see 20 year old DD’s all the time; hell I own one, a 1991 model. Probably true in the southwest too though I don’t know that for a fact.
Absolutely true. 20-30 year vehicles of every type are a common sight on the roads in Phoneix, particularly pickup trucks. Paint fades rather quickly in the harsh Arizona sun but otherwise these vehicles remain viable transportation for many people and businesses. In fact the lack of rust has spawned a 5 mile stretch of junkyards, machine shops, used tire shops, and open air garages that provide all of the necessary services to keep these relics on the road for reasonable prices.
The guy who maintains my parent’s yard drives a lovingly cared for mid-80’s F250 that will easily last another 25 years with perhaps a few replacement engines and transmissions along the way.
Most certainly true. My trip to Palm Desert in the 90s showed me early 70s Japanese cars still running. These cars disappeared from the Northeast in 10 years or less. Amazing how many old cars from different makers plied the streets fully intact, if a bit faded and ratty on the inside…
I would say that a 1992 Neon would be next to impossible to see anywhere since their first year of production was 1994. :)
And even those 1994-made Neons were sold as 1995 models, at least here in Canada. My sister-in-law bought the first one sold in Regina, Saskatchewan, and it was a ’95 that she got in about February or March of 1994.
You’re late to the party, but at least you know….
My indy euro specialist has a bunch of loaners: one of them is a pearl-white Volvo 850 sedan with 352K on it. Had it the last time I took my car in there and was amazed at how well it ran.
If you take care of your car, it will last that long and longer. I don’t mean tinkering with it every day, or doing extraordinary things to keep it running either. Just doing the recommend maintenance at the recommend time, using the proper parts and fluids (not cheap out on stuff), and driving it like it was intended will make your car last a very long time.
I used to have a job as a medical courier that had me driving 400 miles every day, 5 days a week (do the math on THAT, Steven!). The car I bought to do this was a brand new ’01 Golf TDI 2dr, and now, with over 435,000 miles, it still runs and drives like new (and even looks fairly new). All I did was to do the maintenance stuff (oil/fluid changes and timing belts) when recommended. I also drove it like it was intended. No racing or abusive driving. I shut the doors, not slammed them. I lowered the hood and shut it, not slammed the hood down. I sat down in the seats, not plopped down. I turned on switches, not “flicked” them. Stuff like that. It’s never broken down on me, and I’ve had to replace very few items. Still on it’s original untouched engine, transmission (5sp manual), turbo, and even the clutch. Everything still works on it aside from the original cassette player which stopped playing the aux-input adapter cassette after constant use for 300K miles. I also had to replace the A/C compressor at 180K miles, and the injection pump at 370K miles. I’d mention some of the other parts that are still factory original, but most of you would call me a liar if I did.
Most Americans don’t do scheduled maintenance or they try to make their ordinary cars into race cars, then drive them as such. Economy cars, like my Golf, should be left fairly stock and driven as such. If you want to race, get a used Mustang and mod the hell out of it if you want. In other words, use the right tool for the job.
As for spending $2K on a car with 150K miles on it, let me say that $2K to keep your car running is lots cheaper than spending $25K for a new one. It’s just harder to get financed is all.
http://caughtatthecurb.blogspot.com/2011/03/golf-with-insane-miles.html
You’re lying! Everyone on here knows that VWs are garbage! (just kidding).
As a TDI owner myself, I’m impressed with the mileage you’ve racked up on your Golf. I’m thinking of buying a new Golf wagon (aka Jetta Sportwagen) next year, but I know my 2002 Golf is capable of a lot more mileage since it’s only at about 208000. I do have a new set of glass lensed headlights ordered and am considering a Malone tune so maybe those items will help me to not want a shiny new Golf wagon next year.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
I think the MkIV ALH engine TDI’s, like yours, are the best. I actually know very little about the newer ones, but a friend of mine bought a 2011 Golf TDI about a year ago, the same silver color as mine, based on my experiences. He’s very happy with it so far.
My headlight covers need replacing too. I would love to go with the Golf GTI 25th anniversary ones with the black background instead of the stock chromed ones. I think they look sharp.
I would advise against the Malone tune, but that’s me. If you want more power, put in the nozzles that came stock on the European TDIs. That’s why they have more power and torque than the US spec ones. You might also want to clean your intake manifold if you haven’t already. They tend to get very gunked up and restrict the air flow. Avoid any cold air intakes or K&N air filters!!! The stock system is more efficient and is a CAI from the factory to begin with.
As far as mods go, I have to figure that VW has thousands of engineers who are probably smarter than some random guys who think they know how to make their cars, built for economy, go faster. Go to TDIClub.com too, if you’re not there already.
This dude makes sense, and I do the same things. Abuse and neglect will kill a car. Those who buy a car as an appliance do not realize this. One should fill that ocean of what he or she does not understand with knowledge of how to maintain a car and how to keep your spoiled little rich kids’ hands off things.
I haven’t seen much around the 300K+ mark that isn’t diesel powered, but I know those rides are out there. My thoughts are clever DIYers and mechanics may find their way around some of the electrical nonsense in some makes which may become cult followings. Just as the VW Bug and Volvo 240s of old were firmly legends in their own time, so might the Panther, W-body, Foci, Fit, and Camry of today.
A friend in college had a 1989 Mercury Capri (it’s a Mustang), with 490k very hard miles on it. Original 302 in it. The filth held it together. We took it to the drag strip, with bungee cords holding the hood and trunk closed, no dash lights, and a passenger side door that didn’t open anymore. And it still ran a 14.7 on rotted tires.
I think you need to add a handicapping factor to this equation.
For instance, my ’91 Mazda RX7 just turned over 215k with its original untouched NA rotary engine.
Using the “dog years” conversion factor, this equates to about…um, a bajillion piston engine miles.
The closest I ever got to 300 was 260 something out of the d15 that came in a 93 civic hatchback I used to own. It burned a little oil but other than that it was completely reliable and road worthy car. I had a mildly worked over h22 for the car, that’s the only reason the little single cam didn’t get to see 300.
As an automotive service manager, I’ve seen the average mileage our clients vehicles have on them steadily rise over the last 26 years. 300K is certainly without a doubt the new 200K. It is still somewhat rare, but you tend to see Buick 3.8 V6’s and late 80’s Toyota Camry’s with huge miles on them more so than not.
Agreed, I once drove an ’86 Cressida with 160K on the clock and a ’92 Camry with 250K, both were around 2006. Camry wasn’t very smooth but the Cressida surprisingly was, it was probably the first (and possibly the last) time I was ever personally impressed by a Toyota product. I also saw a *very* beat ’95 Riviera on Ebay last year with 370K being sold as a running parts car, bid $650
My Dad’s 92 Previa has 360K on the clock and still is ticking along. My 04 Camry with the 2.4L 4Cly has 276K and has only recently started using a quart of oil between oil changes. I think 300,000 on the Camry is easily possible. The only non maintenance item was a wheel bearing about 20K miles ago. She’s also been throwing a CEL of Cat out of range.
My dad’s past 2 vehicles have broken that barrier. His 87′ toyota “1 ton” pickup. I think that must have meant the weight of the truck not the cargo. It made it to 330,000 miles when the odometer broke. He drove if for a few years after that. He finally got rid of it after an accident. He sold it to a friend a for a few hundred bucks and its still being used as a farm truck.
Then he purchased a used 1998 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 89K miles. It just broke 320,000 miles. The engine and transmission still run strong. We just replaced the radiator and the AC compressor. No plans to retire it yet.
Did just under 240k in eight years on a Toyota Matrix until it failed smog and the list of repairs for passing was much more than the car was worth. Still miss that car.
My new Mazda 2 is less than four months old and already has over 12k on it. Love it to death but am afraid it’s going to throw something costly before it’s paid off.
Sadly, my ’94 Integra died right at 200K miles; someone made a left turn too close in front of my wife. That car was good for another 60-80K, I figure.
On the other hand, my friend Bill still has his ’84 Mitsubishi pickup truck; still going strong at 650K.
When my 98 Corolla reached about 240k miles, I had a transmission failure, at that time I had to decide to spend $600 or sell it for almost nothing and get into another monthly payment and higher ins premiums, (don’t trust used cars) so I fixed the tranny and 5 years and 100k miles later, still humming along, singing a song, no payments.
Herp derp, your Corolla’s transmission failed! Toyotas are unreliable!
…Derp?
I’m stunned that, after seven hours, you didn’t get a single anti-Toyota canned response. Man, this place is getting soft.
I’m not even impressed by the longevity of a car anymore unless it has done 400-500k. I’ve had a 1998 Lexus ES with 225k that was showing no real signs of fatigue when it was rear ended and totaled, a 1995 Accord with 230k that was still happy-as-a-Honda when I got bored of it and traded it in, and 1994 Ford Explorer (there may be skeptics on this one) that I bought with 260k and drove well into the 300s. It was still roadworthy when we sold it.
Ok, let me amend my statement: I’m very impressed any time I see a Land Rover product with over 170k miles. You’ve got to respect the sheer volume of cash that must have gone into keeping it on the road for that many miles (gas, parts, service, towing, motel stays when stranded, etc.). Not to mention the dollar value of the pain and suffering endured by the owner.
I’ll back you up on the Explorer. My parents bought a brand new Eddie Bauer Explorer, a 1991 I think. They drove it for 11 years and probably put 100,000 very hard miles on it. My mom’s commute was short and all city driving, so it was always run cold and hard, When my dad drove it, he had his foot to the floor all the time. We would make 5 or 6 road trips a year pulling a a big Lund ski boat or four snowmobiles on a 1500 pound (empty weight) trailer. It went many places that required 4WD. They replaced it with a very boring, but better, Suburban in 2002 and sold it to my cousin, who uses it as a work truck. He still had it at Easter this year. Its ratty and rusted out, and somebody burned out the 4WD by forgetting to disengage it on the freeway, but the darn thing still runs and he trusts it. I believe he has 265k on it now.
I never have, nor ever will keep a car past 80,000 miles. Here in NYC, I see old Panther platforms with that kind of mileage and I have friends with cars past 100,000 miles. I just can’t see myself doing it. Not unless it was a super rare collector car.
mileage in a city like NY and a wide open area are two completely different things, up north, bad streets and rock salt will kill cars way earlier than sunbelt, good long roads states, I know cause I’ve lived in both.
Oh no! I’ve had my new car five months and I’ve already put 9k miles on it! I’m going to have to replace it in another…three and a half years?
Please.
Our family: makes ’em last…
Son #1 still in the Army after 24 years is a maintenance fanatic, he does not want his wife and kids stranded when he is thousands of miles away. 1994 Camry purchased new given to his mother-in-law (wonderful Croatian lady who has gone from donkey carts in the old country to zipping about Madison, Wi) now with 220,000. Two 2004 Toyotas one van with 137,000 and one FJ Cruiser with 129,000. His two sons’ school car, given to them by me, 1998 Isuzu Trooper, 185,000.
Son #2 one Honda Accord now at 189,000 but just about ready to quit; and a Nissan van at 143,000
Son-in law and daughter; just got rid of an F150 which was purchased new, dumped at 237,000 bought a new one. One 1992 Nissan Sentra purchased new now used as a commuter car in Chicago with 187,000
Me and wife” 1995 Town car which will turn 160,000 sometime Saturday and a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix with only 38,000.
Me too, I have a 1997 Town Car, it hit 160K and climbing.
beware of the transmission cooler lines they rust and break, and no direct fit replacement is available.
I have a stupid Honda Accord V6 that I hate to the point that i didnt change the timing belt so that it dies. but it is still running at 130K with the original timing belt. ( My nephew’s car)
a 1988 Mazda RX-7 Convertible with 90K NO Rust and a Blown apex seal
maybe it is time for a rebuild….
“I have a stupid Honda Accord V6 that I hate to the point that i didnt change the timing belt so that it dies. but it is still running at 130K with the original timing belt. ( My nephew’s car)”
Interference engine? You might be courting expensive danger there. Why ‘throw away” a car you could sell instead?
I’ve had 2 Caprices that went well over 300,000 miles. The 91 went t 450,000, and it’s still going. I got tired of it and gave it to a friend.
I had a 95 Impala SS that I got from a friend, and drive it till it had about 350,000 miles. Structural rust did it in, plus I wanted the engine and seats for another project car.
On the other hand, I’ve had cars, like the Lincoln Mark VIII, that got so unreliable by 140,000 miles that I got rid of them.
So, I don’t think 300,000 is possible or practical on all cars, but it sure is on some.
Bob
Our family: makes ’em last…
Son #1 still in the Army after 24 years is a maintenance fanatic, he does not want his wife and kids stranded when he is thousands of miles away. 1994 Camry purchased new given to his mother-in-law (wonderful Croatian lady who has gone from donkey carts in the old country to zipping about Madison, Wi) now with 220,000. Two 2004 Toyotas one van with 137,000 and one FJ Cruiser with 129,000. His two sons’ school car, given to them by me, 1998 Isuzu Trooper, 185,000.
Son #2 one Honda Accord now at 189,000 but just about ready to quit; and a Nissan van at 143,000
Son-in law and daughter; just got rid of an F150 which was purchased new, dumped at 237,000 bought a new one. One 1992 Nissan Sentra purchased new now used as a commuter car in Chicago with 187,000
Me and wife” 1995 Town car which will turn 160,000 sometime Saturday and a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix with only 38,000.
All being used and driven full time in Midwest Chicago-Milwaukee.
I think there are some misconceptions about older cars not going over 100K. Our family owned a 1971 LTD for 30 years and we got 225K on the original 400 engine (and C6 trans) w/o ever opening it up (other than replacing the plastic-geared timing set) before selling it.
It was everything bolted to the motor that failed: alternators and water pumps every 30K, starters every 50K, and carburetor and distributor at just over 100K (not to mention the usual belts hoses and gaskets).
And the headliner, seats, dash, and door panels were still in decent condition even after 30 years (Ford was still using the 1930s-era wire hoop suspension for the headliner).
Same story with my girlfriend’s (now wife’s) 1975 Nova, at least for the drivetrain mechanicals. It had 255K on the original 250-6 and turbo 350 when the car was given away to a guy who then won 2nd place in a demo derby with it, and he was then going to give the (still-running) engine to somebody else! The Nova interior did not age well, however, including the infamous falling headliner.
Both of these cars obviously did not live in coastal or rust-belt areas.
I agree, I know of a Maliese era Mustang II with over 200k, rust hasn’t been nice to it though.
My 1995 Mercury Mystique now has 337,000 miles in and around New York City and Long island. It is still my daily driver and commuter car, although I also have a 2004 CTS for longer trips.
The Mercury has had no special care, just synthetic oil every 6000-7000 miles, and a clutch at 250,000 miles. It is V6, 5 speed.
After 300,000 miles, the alternator went, and the 2 rear brake cylinders needed replacement. Other than that, just routine wear-out items have been replaced. I have never been stranded on the road.
5-speed says it all.
Agreed that the mechanical bits can make it with proper maintenance as long as it’s not something like the Chrysler 3.7 in the 300C.
My Gen2 Avalon is at 161K and though I’m not putting 750 miles a week on it like I was when I got a year ago at 123K (new job), I have every expectation the 3.0V6 will make 300K. Difference with this car as opposed to many is the interior is very well made, no rattles at all, headliner is perfect and the leather is holding up very well.
I just had all the systenms flushed, the engine /trans doesn’t leak a drop and I only lose 1/2 pint of oil between 5K oil changes. It runs like silk. This one’s a keeper.
I have seen newer cars with worse build quality. If you have a critical eye toward looking for quality interiors, it shouldn’t be too hard to get a car that will go the distance.
Cars are just assemblies of systems. One breaks, you swap in a new one. So the “car” can last nearly forever given enough replacement systems. All these systems hang from the unibody, which itself can be rustproofed early on and even bent back into shape if damaged.
Go to places like Cars.com and do a search of Lexus cars with either the 4.0 V8 (LS400, GS400, SC400) or the 3.0 I6 (GS300, SC300, IS300).
From the large number of them for sale at all times; it looks like if you did not get at least 300K, you got a lemon.
I even see Lexus dealers selling high mileage ones that still look great. This must hurt people like Steven with used lots. Dealers use to dump high mileage trade-ins as standard procedure.
2004 Pontiac Grand Prix with 174,000 currently on it. Still runs great with the normal maintenance and replacement of typical wear parts (Brakes, Belts, Hoses)
I’ve had it for 8 years and for the past 6 months, I’ve been seriously considering trading it in. Not for the fact that’s it’s unreliable or anything like that. More so the fact that I’ve simply become bored with it and want something newer.
However not having a car payment and the fact that it has never left stranded ever…makes the argument of replacing it a loosing battle.
I pounded 186K miles into an ’89 Ford Probe in just four years – was doing field sales.
I do think that 300K is the new 200K. As others have noted and I agree, the interior materials and electronics will have long started to falter by 300K but the mechanicals certainly will be living on
I remember looking at a Volvo 240 with 300k, it barely ran and leaked gas pretty badly.
Though, thats nothing compare to a 988k Volare station wagon I saw for sale (and ran fine), ditto for an old Buick wagon that actually had pass 1 million miles, and still worked!
The owners were nice and pleasent to chat with too.
“988k Volare station wagon”
Pictures please! I could believe a Slant-6 could do this but the rest of the car is questionable. I would think it should have disintegrated by the mid-90s.
The highest-mileage “light” vehicle I have personally witnessed was an uncle’s 1990 Chevy K1500, 350 engine, used mainly for plowing – it went over 400K before the tinworm “totaled” it.
Of course, I have seen Class 8 tractors and buses with almost a million miles, but I’m not sure those count since they are constantly “refurbished” like commercial aircraft.
Another uncle had an ’88 Jetta with the gasoline 1.8 that almost hit 300K.
As for today’s cars? With proper maintenance, i would expect just about all of them to reach 300K. With the same number of major repairs the Chevy and Jetta got, today’s cars could even hit a million miles.
However, one must account for the systems in certain cars (i.e. DSG-type transmissions) that might make those cars economically unfeasible to repair after a certain point.
I put 240K on a 78 Malibu, one engine rebuild, two trans rebuilds (4-speed)2 clutches. 200K on a 91 Sunbird, no major overhauls, one ignition module, one torque-converter switch. Right now I have 100K on a 2000 Lexus. That car still looks new and I hope to get 300K out of it.
My previous ’96 VW Passat TDI had 462,000 km on it when I sold it in 2005, and I saw it a few weeks ago.
The 2006 Jetta TDI that I bought to replace it, has 383,000 km on it now. Your 300,000 mile mark is around 480,000 km, so the Passat was close when I sold it and I’m sure it’s beyond that now, and the Jetta shows no sign of impending trouble.
The problem with high mileage cars is the neglect and crapification detailed in another Stephen Lang article here at TTAC. I am replacing about half the interior on our Cabrio b/c the first two owners just used it all up – and VW didn’t do as well as they should have with the door panels for example. I blame the first two owners who used up the seat bolsters and apparently did not keep the leather cleaned/moisturized. I bought used door planels and seats from a newer Cabrio and then redyed them to match the rest of the interior of this car. For $250 or so – and some sweat equity – the interior of this car will be neat and tidy again.
The car is worth $1500 at most according to the Blue Book at 176K miles but the car functions fine and costs me very little each year. The fact that it keeps away another car purchase is the important function it fills.
My Dad runs his vehicles to around 250K, which takes about 6 years. Currently, 2007 Yukon with 230K. It’s needed usual brake pads, rotors, but disappointingly needed a rear differential overhaul at 120K. Cat con failed at 175K. Some of the repairs have not been cheap! I always feared trouble would arise from the cylinder-deactivation system, but alas…NO.
The engine and tranny are still solid.
We put 200K on my dad’s ’72 Suburban before it threw the timing chain. A morning’s work to fit a new one and it ran good as new. Decided to sell it, the prospective buyer noticed a clunk in the front end so we crawled under the car to find the problem: a $2 rubber bumper that was worn down to the nub. Other than that, a starter, alternator, and carb rebuild were all it ever needed besides regular tuneups. And a rattle-can job when the white top started rusting. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone is still driving that thing.
Yeah, those seventies Suburbans were built like brick outhouses. My wife’s dad still drives a ’73 2500 4X4 with the 454, a 4-barrel carb and the THM400.
I spent a lot of time replacing the worn out and failed parts over the decades, and the body rattles like a skeleton in a brothel, but it still gets him up and down the mountain every day. Not bad for a vehicle almost 40 years old, driven by a guy in his late eighties.
The speedo quit working years ago so how many miles it has on the odo is anyone’s guess.
There are so many Miatas with more than 300,000 that the Miata.net page doesn’t want you to even brag until yours has at least 450,000:
http://www.miata.net/himi/index.html
For Miatas, 450,000 is the new 200,000
I’ve got 302,000 miles on my 1995 Ford Explorer with I’d call average care taken with it. I did replace the transmission at 225,000 because the value of the trans job vs the cost of getting another vehcile for the same price was an utter crapshoot and I knew what I had.
The old truck has grown on me, I bought it in 2001 for the princely sum of 3500 from my brother in law, when it had 103,000 miles on it. Yep I’m a tighfwad, but at the same time he set the price. I was happy with my 15 year old Pontiac 6000-STE and its crap paint job from the previous owner, but not happy enough with it to swap it for a much newer car with the same miles that worked better for shuttling back and forth to college.
It still looks new, and co-workers always think its much newer than it is, and the ones that ride in it and notice the 3 on the odometer then ask me if that’s the right mileage.
It’s fairly reliable, and hasn’t left me stranded on the side of the road (unlike other cars I’ve owned) gets decent milage (last road trip tp Colorado it averaged 23 mpg) , still looks great, and so far this year, has run me about $400 in parts (cam position sensor, new ECU, and a head light bulb and welded a crack in the exhaust)
Compare to the 15 year old Pontiac I had that needed an engine overhaul at 92,000 miles, A/C compressor (admittedly I was learning about R134 conversions), shocks, struts, ball joints, rack and pinion, seat reupholstery, the aforementioned crap paint job, the factory zillion button radio rebuilt (wanted to keep the SWC) rebuilt the air shock system. All before 140,000 miles.
By the time my Explorer hit 160,000 miles it had needed…. brakes.
First gen Explorers were pretty rugged, I’ve seen them go and go with minimal problems.
I’ve been in the high 250s with some of the Toyota’s I’ve driven. They were all claimed by rust.
I’ve taken to doing lots of undercoating with my new vehicles that I plan on driving into 300k territory since I live in the rust belt.
I’ve seen lots of other Tacoma owners with well over 300k with nothing more than a few timing belts and water pumps, and brakes etc. The 3.4 V6 is a wonder of a truck engine.
http://www.yotatech.com/f2/300-000-mile-club-241433/
My mom got my 96 Saturn, she got a another car and the Saturn is for sale. Here’s something to consider: lots of lookers for the Saturn, none of them could drive a stick. That’s not an issue in here, but is wildly different in the real world.
One of my cars may hit 300k but it will happen long after I’ve sold them.
Life is too short to be stuck with the same car.
All of this talk about car longevity and replacemnt parts reminds me of the old hammer I have in my tool box. My Dad says it has been in the family for over 250 years, handed down from generation to generation. Of course it has had 8 new handles and 3 new heads but it still keeps pounding in nails.
My ’98 Park Avenue has 365,000 miles and is still a reliable car. My initial goal was to make it last to 250K, since revised to 400K. I have newer vehicles, but it’s become fun just trying to squeeze as many miles as possible out of the Buick before it implodes. A recent fender-bender almost made me call it quits, but I went ahead and spent $150 on a boneyard fender, hood, radiator, and headlight plus another $250 to get the hood and fender refinshed.
I doubt the dual clutch transmission cars will be reaching 300k.
When the clutches burn up at 150k, and they cost $4000 to replace, a lot of these cars will be getting scrapped.
BS – the Luk DSG clutch pack is about $700 and you replace it just like a normal flywheel. Don’t believe me take a trip over to YouTube for a look.
The cost really depends on the car, but I really can’t see a reason why a DSG wouldn’t be able to reach high mileage. The internal gear sets are not much more complicated than a traditional manual gearbox, only the controls really add the complexity. Even then, they shouldn’t have more failures than a hydraulic automatic based on principle alone.
Up here in the salt encrusted north age almost always kills a car before mileage. That being said, when I started driving in 1995 by the 6-8 year mark most cars had visible rust, now it seems to take 12-13 yrs on average for rust through. My 01 Focus is just developing the early stages on the fender lip. However the highest mileage I saw was on a 96 one ton Chevy Express, over 800,000 on an original 7.4L 4L80E combo.
I’m in MN so I am familiar with rust! Many folks don’t bother with preventative measures to delay the rust, but it is inevitable around here.
my 2007 suburban motor just died at 199,759 miles. it had been burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles for the last 2 years. lots of things wrong with the vehicle. the motor put it over the top. i really thought i’d keep it for another year and a half and get to 250K. not going to happen now. i’d still say 200k is pretty tough to do.
Mercedes benz. my 1956 220a had covered 218,000 by 1976 when it was laid up in a barn( and still runs fine) . My dad bought a new 280E in 1970 and did 118,000 in 18 months . My 300SEL 6.3 had 320,000 on it when I bought it 10 years ago. We bought a 1984 280SEL with 100,000 on it in 1990 and when we sold it in 2001 it had covered close to 700,000 and was still running well with it’s new owner last year when he sold it on for $1000. Mileage unknown now.
I had a 1990 300E with 670,000 and yesterday i bought a 230TE for $600 with 400,000 .All ran/run well and it’s just a tiny example of many I see with galactic mileages on them. This probably why I cherish my 380SE (100,000) and my 300D turbo (107,000 ) for their crazy low mileages.
200,000 ?? hah ,Mercedes are just getting run in at that low mileage.
I noticed that all these MB’s are pre-1993… is it true that the Benz’s built before Lexus appeared are better made vehicles than that later models?
From about 1995 onward Mercedes pretty much gave its customers the finger, prior to this period their designs held up well.
My son’s ’68 Galaxie went 360,000 miles before being totalled in a rainstorm. My ’96 Bronco has 200,000 miles and has perfect compression on all 8 cylinders. The wife’s ’99 Impreza has 199,000 miles and burns a quart of oil every 1,000 miles or so. All of these cars have had excellent maintenance and regular oil changes.
I recently bought my father in laws 2000 Civic LX. He put 200,000 miles on it commuting in 8 years. The car has 263,000 on it. I am hoping for 300k and would possibly think about a engine swap if the current d-series goes paws up.
It’s not likely you’ll lose the engine if it’s been maintained in a civil fashion, i.e. not topping it off with a pound of sand after an oil change. In the event it does go you could get a very decent b18b up to spec and in the car for about a grand, assuming you or someone you know has a reasonable grasp of Hondas. The vtec engines are much more fashionable but the b18b will give you healthy increase of both hp and tq over the single cam and will result in nearly equal increases in fun.
I personally see nothing noble in keeping a car that long unless you simply can’t afford to replace it sooner. My 2004 Impala has almost 102K, and at 8 years old, I don’t plan on keeping it a great deal longer – BUT – and here’s the rub: This is the first car I can honestly say I love as much now as when I picked it up at the dealer at the end of May, 2004. So who knows?
Perhaps that’s as good of a reason as any for keeping a car for 300,0000 miles if all else is in good shape.
I do know that 100K is considered normal nowadays…
Your Bronco was over-built with truck parts intended to take a beating. It might even be collectable. I’d say it’s mid-life, and that’s what people don’t understand about trucks that don’t put in a hard day’s work.
Your wife’s Impreza works hard just getting itself around. It wasn’t under-built and I’m sure it met or exceeded expectations.
Stories such as these remind me of a guy who worked for me and his VW. If oil consumption increased, he’d throw in some new rings and maybe fresh bearings and the requisite gaskets. That’s it, and he’d drive another 100k.
Granted this isn’t surgical room mechanic- kosher, and certainly not within everyone’s grasp. But still cool.
I got almost 237K out of my ’92 Ford Ranger truck, 4.0L Cologne V6 and 5spd manny tranny.
Outside of replacing the exhaust, the clutch master and slave cylinders and oil/plug/wire changes, it was as reliable as the day was long until the bitter end.
The idle air controller valve was going, it was leaking in several places in the cooling system, was loosing 2Qts of oil every 2 weeks, needed a new serpentine belt and a new battery, had a loose wheel bearing or bushing, I forget which and a new U-Joint as it was loose and it was also leaking at the timing chain cover, and on the day I had the idle adjusted to I could drive it safely to the dealer to trade it in, the shifter bushings went for the 2nd time since I bought it.
Bought it in 2006 with 189K miles on it with a new clutch, front brakes, wheel bearings (I think) and fresh oil in the transmission. All it needed was a tune up and fresh oil and it was good to go.
All worked but the AC the whole time I had it.
Got $1000 for it in trade with the paint in good shape and the body mostly straight with very, very minor dings.
And with that I could not complain. Might’ve tried to have fixed it, but with the multitude of issues, I know it would’ve cost upwards of what the old beast was worth to fix and I needed something smaller and more fuel efficient to begin with.
I agree with what a lot of other people have already stated: More often than not, cars end up in junkyards due to a combination of electrical system failures and interior problems.
A couple years go, I bought a used Cadillac Seville from the original owner for $1,500. Car had 52K miles when I bought it, the body was straight and the mechanical bits were mostly solid. The problems were almost all electronic and interior. The LED high-mount stop lamp was non-functional. The instrument cluster was out. The engine idle was high. Leather on the driver’s seat was worn. The center armrest was torn, driver’s door panel was broken. The fabric on the interior pillar covers was coming off. If the dealer had repaired all this stuff, it would have cost a fortune.
The previous owner is loaded, but he decided that the money would be better spent on a new car so he sold the Seville to me. The instrument cluster was repaired with a $40 junkyard find. The sick idle turned out to be a bad TPS…$35 from Autozone. The door panel and armrest came from eBay….about $60 total. The peeling pillar covers were repaired with a can of auto spray adhesive and a couple yards of auto interior fabric likewise obtained from eBay. The leather seat was refinished with a leather refinish kit ordered online for about $30. The most expensive bit was the LED stop lamp, I obtained a rebuilt unit from an online seller for $160.
So why didn’t the previous owner attempt any of the repairs himself? Despite being a retired mechanical engineer who worked 35 years for a military contractor, the man is completely clueless when it comes to anything automotive.
Yawn at 200K miles on a car. I buy Saab’s at that mileage.
How about a motorcycle with 200K? 300K?
Anybody note the common thread here? This kind of mileage is not too hard for most cars to make nowadays. But only for those who log massive highway miles. Obviously the clock works against those who put on lower miles per year – aging plays a big part, as does potential time exposed to salt – but the big thing working against old cars that are used daily for short trips is the number of startup cycles. A car driven 100 miles each way uses the starter once, warms up once, opens the window a couple of times…compared to a car that for the same 100 miles does those things 25 times, all while aging three weeks. My 20 year old Sable started out life with this kind of use, never spent any time garaged, and to this day still has this kind of use, or less. At only 125K or so it is not worth a blink by the 200 plus clubbers, but the wear this car has to endure far exceeds the wear a 30K a year highway queen has at 200K. And such high cycles makes for interesting repairs…key switch, a starter (never did on on any car until this one), the return springs on the driver’s door handle (inside and out)…yet everything works and is still reliable. To me, this is much more of an accomplishment than just racking up highway miles…..and yes, krhoads, I, too, don’t understand why people let all the little broken things accumulate to the point that you just don’t want the car anymore…
my 340k mile Corolla is used daily to go from home to home, no long road trips, lots of stop and go traffic and gets re-started at least a dozen times a day, original starter motor, one replaced alternator. I never floor it and always start off slow in the AM
My ’99 CR-V goes 10 miles this way and 10 miles home. Several nights per week it goes an extra 10 miles each way for scouts, soccer, and so forth. Once a month it runs ~100 miles each way to the grandparents houses and once a year or so it might go several hundred miles to the beach for a few days.
It’s at 240K and original clutch/axles/shocks/a-c/etc. It has had rotors, brake pads, brake shoes (@215K) and a radiator (@165K).
It is our primary car and the other car probably went less than 2K all year.
One of my friends inherited his dad’s 2001 Corolla sedan (with a stick) when it had 280,000 miles on it. That was two years ago, and he’s since put another 70k on it. The car lunched the transmission when it was almost new, but other than that, the massively worn out interior (the ‘soft touch’ plastics are well worn down to the foam on the steering wheel, etc,) and the quart of oil the engine consumes every thousand miles, it’s still running pretty well.
200k doesn’t impress me, but 300k certainly does. Here in New Hampshire, older cars tend to disappear into the earth – my first ’89 244 did (at 219k), and my ’94 855 (at 221k), previously from Maine, is headed that way. My other cars are another ’89 244 with 210k, which I’m planning to keep forever, and a ’92 745 that was pretty thrashed by its last few owners and threw a rod at 214k. I’d save it if it wasn’t used up, but rust surprisingly isn’t an issue…
I have driven or know a few cars with high mileage, one was a 1990 Nissan Patrol with ~360k that I know had a head rebuild on the 4.2 diesel I6, a 1994 Ford Falcon ute with 350k that drove as smooth and quiet as new, and a late 1960’s Peugeot 404 with over 400k taken off the road for a rusted gearbox crossmember.
That’s not counting innumerable taxis that have 450-650k at the end of their 5-6 year service life (depending if they are bought new or not). More often these days they make that mileage on the original driveline.
I bought a 1980 Toyota Starlet used in 1986, for $3000, ran it up to about 160K with only the replacement of a rear end (real problem was the U-joint was going out – Toyota of San Antonio told me it was the differential, I had a long road trip ahead of me, so believed them and had to replace the U-joint on the road 1500 miles later in the middle of the trip – at an independent repairshop).
At about 160K, I went overseas with the USAF, and gave it to my kid brother. He ran it up to 268K with a couple junkyard transmissions he and a friend installed poorly. It definitively died on the exit ramp to his apartment in Atlanta, returning from a trip to Vermont. His employee discount Mercury Tracer had become available the day before.
I’ve got a friend who has a Honda CRV with 505,000 currently and still going strong. My 2002 Civic SI has original transmission, alternator, clutch, radiator, etc with 187,000 miles. The only issue is paint peeling on hood. Otherwise she is ready to reach 300,000.