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Nissan’s NV200 has stepped over the extremely low bar set out for it by the notorious New York City’s Taxi and Limousine Commission. From now on, all retired cabs must be replaced by the Mexican-assembled minivan.
The NV200 features a 150,000-mile powertrain warranty, which may soothe the fears of some medallion-holders for a while. Given that 150,000 miles is just the starting point for a Panther-platform car or Camry Hybrid, however, it’s a safe bet that many of the current cab operators are wondering what they can do to delay the purchase of this expensive and difficult-to-service Nissan.
67 Comments on “Finally, The Taxi Of Tomorrow Arrives. Woo. Hoo....”
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I’m usually an optimist, I don’t often suspect corruption around every corner, but the choice of the NV200 for NYC’s newest mandatory cab choice reaks of a payoff.
I have to wonder who makes up the NYC taxi commission. Is it drivers, taxi company owners, passengers, the mayor, Nissan, who? This is not rhetorical. Has anyone written either an article or book about how this decision was made?
Full disclosure. When I’m in the city, my car stays in a carpark for the duration, and I either hoof it or take the underground. I only cab it when I’m running very late.
Considering the influence of labor unions in these northern cities, you have to wonder how they got away with mandating a Japanese vehicle that is made in Mexico.
Very odd indeed.
The public sector unions that you are referring to don’t really give a damn about private sector unions.
This is very bad policy. There are debatable reasons for medallions (which the city should auction off yearly as licenses instead of flat-out selling) and for requiring certain cab features/specifications. But there is no reason not to let the market pick the winner among the vehicles that meet the basic specifications.
Countdown until the cab companies ruin the sleek front end with a big push bar… 4, 3, 2, 1,…
Yes, I know that the cabs are not supposed to have front bumper guards anymore per the Taxi commission. But I also looked up the Euro version of this small vehicle and there are front bumper bars or bull bars sold over in the EU. So I figured the US cabbies would latch onto the pieces soon after the NV200 begins service.
Who are the purchasers of these vehicles, public or private entities? If private, on what basis can this public entity specify what vehicle a private company buys? I find the situation kinda weird.
I don’t recall anyone ever raising a question about the propriety of the TLC mandating a specific make & model that shall be the only vehicle to be used as a taxi. This was a departure from previous practice where they merely provided specifications; any vehicle that met them was eligible for service, and apparently the specs could be waived if the vehicle had “green” credentials. Hence the presence of Prius taxis, even seen some TDI wagons with medallions. The process is wrapped in more secrecy than the NSA, even though the potential for abuse is obvious.
Taxi commissions are public entities and the vehicles are owned by private entities. The reason for standardization is to keep (street-hailed) cab service an interchangeable commodity: standardizing cars and prices means that when you hail a cab it’ll be about the same as any other hailed cab so you can save time (for yourself and the cab drivers) by going with the first one that stops instead of shopping around.
They’re all corrupt as hell though.
The city controls the issuance of medallions. Without a medallion, you cannot legally pick up passengers streetside, although in practice this is only enforced in Manhattan. The city dictates the allowable vehicles medallion holders can use, including the vehicle type, color, the computer screens inside, the allowed credit card processor (only Verifone), the various public service messages, posted info about the driver etc (it’s quite a setup.)
In case you were wondering, current cost of a medallion is $700,000. Without a medallion you can pick up people who call your ‘livery service’ ahead of time but you miss out on the lucrative streetside market. NYC. The city is also pushing hard against smartphone app-based taxi and carsharing services. Basically it’s a fantastic amount of money spent by the cab companies to maintain a profitable city-enforced monopoly whose costs they pass onto NYC residents and (mostly) tourists via higher fares.
Interesting. I never knew the specific differences between the medallion/non medallion livery services. From a business standpoint, the smartphone app service seems to be a great way for non-medallion services to get around the monopoly.
Just proves that good old fashioned free-market ingenuity always beats a propped up monopoly.
I would imagine the same system exists in London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Berlin, Washington etc. etc.
Any city would have a ‘scam’ going where the public is the ‘mark’ and i dont think the cab or driver is getting a break. Where I am the airports have a monopoly around which cabs can pick up from them… they get kickbacks… this is the system we all live with.
re Danio:
It’s also a good way to provide for-hire service to areas which many cabbies refuse to visit, be it for crime concerns or the lack of a possible return fare on a longer round trip. That it’s being opposed instead of accomodated clearly indicates the city government stratifies its citizens’ status when it comes to public services.
Most medallion owners don’t directly engage in operating cabs, that’s why medallion prices have risen so high…..it’s good ol’ fashioned, free market, capitalist speculation. When you get into a NYC cab the medallion owner could be a doctor, lawyer, stockbroker…almost anyone but usually not the poor chump behind the wheel. Wasn’t always like this. Once upon a time medallion holders…and that’s what they were, medallion holders, not owners, the city owned the medallions….were required to be directly involved in operating a cab, but we can’t have any of that now because it’s commie regulation and we’re all tea-bags-for-brains capitalists now. Enjoy your crappy, overpriced cab service.
All due respect, but the Crown Vic was crap for a cab, at least from a passenger’s perspective. Biggest fault: horrible legroom, especially with a reinforced bench back and a tall cabbie. I’m glad they’re going away, and I think the NV200 looks a lot more passenger-friendly even if it’s ugly as a duckling turd. Here’s hoping they go with hybrid versions, they should be both more efficient and slower/more calming.
The Panthers were chosen over and over due to their legacy. Maintenance and parts were easy and cheap. The cars were durable. The long wheelbase versions that most cab orders became after the early 2000s had pretty good legroom too.
I will agree that the converted police cars you see in smaller towns are a bit cramped in the back.
I agree with Mr. Noisewater—the Panther really was poor from a passenger’s perspective. Noisy, clomping, cramped, the seat was low, entry and exit unnecessarily difficult.
It didn’t matter if it was a converted Interceptor or a Town Car, the **Intrepid** beat the Panthers six ways from Sunday. The NV and Transit Connect are so much better _for passengers_ that it isn’t even funny.
Panthers worked for fleet managers and shade-tree mechanics, but no one else, which is why they haven’t sold at retail in anything resembling statistically relevant numbers in a decade.
The Panthers were not great from a passenger point of view, but they were great from a durability perspective. There are shops set up in the City that have rebuilt transmissions, service parts, you name it all ready to go for cabs in need of repair. Downtime is pretty much nil. Not too long ago the TLC changed rules, requiring the replacement of the cabs on a time/mileage basis. I believe it is 350,000 miles or some crazy number. These cabs are not junked at that point; they are sold to livery companies who paint them black and continue to use them for years until a wreck takes them out or they get sold out of the city. It is not uncommon to see a black livery car with chipped black paint and cab orange showing underneath. Prior to these rules, cabs were collision repaired over and over again, pretty much a rolling Bondo bucket with a million miles and a rattling tattered mess.
Extended wheelbase edition since 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Crown_Victoria#Long-wheelbase_commercial_version_.282002.E2.80.932012.29
The Crown Vic could not accommodate a wheelchair-bound disabled citizen. The NV200 can. The TLC is being aggressive about eliminating taxi vehicles that cannot accommodate the disabled. This is not just a change for change’s sake.
Whether or not you believe a mostly Crown Vic fleet directly or indirectly discriminates against the disabled population, many people do, and are suing the city. The adoption of the NV200 will go a long way towards eliminating that perceived discrimination.
That said, it will still be up to the cabbies to actually accept disabled fares – something that will no doubt be enforced with greater vigor.
Once the bulk of TLC taxis are NV200s, able-bodied citizens may miss the classic Panthers – I for one still miss the Checkers – but the disabled will have a far easier time getting around NYC.
If a cab that can’t accommodate a wheelchair discriminates against the disabled, then the cars with insufficient leg room in back discriminate against tall people.
This is more about the Permanent Employment for Litigators Act, er… the Americans With Disabilities Act, than about any actual discrimination.
Ronnie I love you like a brother, exactly right, not to mention, when you hit a Bloomberg pothole in this piece of crap your knees will punch you in the mouth.
Agreed.
The Nissan won’t be discriminating against any tall people, as evidenced by this interior shot:
http://www.netcarshow.com/nissan/2014-nv200_taxi/800×600/wallpaper_10.htm
….not to mention, when you hit a Bloomberg pothole in this piece of crap your knees will punch you in the mouth…..
In addition to spilling your 32 ounce soft drink. By the way, George HW Bush considered the ADA act to be “one of the greatest pieces of civil rights legislation” as he so stated in his debate against Bill Clinton.
The NV200 can not carry wheelchairs without an expensive option and the loss of a rear seat
It doesn’t surprise me that this would happen in a Bloomberg New York. An administration that believes it knows what’s best for you, from what you drink to what you drive.
Truly the market should determine what cars a cabbie or cab company buys for themselves. Who knows their customers and terrain better? Around here, you see quite a variety of cabs as no such commission exists to tell cabbies what to drive.
Many choose minivans (of many different makes) to be able to accomodate wheelchairs. There is the ever present Crown Vic fleet and a surprising amount of late model GM W-bodies (the equivalent of a FWD Panther).
There were a few hybrids milling about at one time, but I never see them anymore. Perhaps they weren’t cost effective.
Re: Hybrids, Vancouver BC’s taxi fleet is probably 75% hybrids – and when I say hybrids, I mean the Prius. I don’t take a cab often, but when I have I’ve enquired with the driver as to how durable they are in Taxi service, and from what I’ve heard, they aren’t doing too badly. Several of the drivers I spoke to told me that some of the Prius’s they’ve driven have done upwards of 400,000kms, and the only parts to be replaced are the battery pack and the usual consumables – all were still running on their original engine and transmission. If cab firms are saving that much gas over the lifetime of the vehicle, and all it costs is a battery pack (which are much cheaper these days), then I’m sure they are cost effective.
Regular Prius make lousy cabs from a passenger perspective too – same issues as a Panther, too darned hard to get in and out of and not much space. My favorite is actually the Escape Hybrid. The Prius-V would make a decent cab though – much easier to get in and out of the back seat than a regular one, and a touch roomier.
I have no problem with a specialized vehicle designed for Taxi service (see Checker for 50 years), but it should have been required to be a hybrid. Urban Taxi service is pretty much THE perfect use case for them. I really don’t understand why no company has come out with a hybrid minivan. Sees like a Caravan style vehicle that gets 35-40 mpg would be a killer.
Please though, enough with being all amazed about Panthers and Prius lasting 500K miles. Any car will last that long if you never shut it off – as I have mentioned, I used to work for a courier service who routinely got 500K out of late 80’s Escorts! TIME kills cars far more than mileage.
I’d agree if you could, when waiting in line at the airport cab stand, take the nicest vehicle in the line. But, you’re only able to take the clapped out death trap that’s first in line.
Yeah, I’ve tried to grab the car of my choice. They get pretty pissy about it.
This sounds like something I would like for someone with deep pockets to challenge. Nanny Bloomberg is going way overboard. It sounds like the end result desired by him is a community of sheeple. If they put up with mandates like this, he has already succeeded.
Bloomberg has proven himself to be the best Democrat mayor Republicans ever elected.
What Republicans? NYC is populated by Democrats. The result of this one party situation is that the NYC Democratic machine is composed of Democratic poster children and campus radicals. If you’re not a NAMBLA member that has beaten a domestic terrorism charge, then you need not enter the primary for mayor. Bloomberg was a Democrat until he announced his candidacy for mayor, just like Giuliani before him. They run as Republicans instead of independents because it is easier to get on the ballot that way. They’re only ‘conservative’ compared to the freaks chosen by the Democratic machine. The people that vote for them are just normal democrats instead of frustrated campus radicals. Once they’ve been in office for a while, their unpopular policies get blamed on their Republicanness by the NYT, but they’re really just slightly less repulsive Democrats.
CJ, I guess you have never been to Staten Island. Part of NYC, it is far and away one of the most hard core Republican/Tea party conservative bastations there is. Pretty much full of “repulsive” Rupert Merdoch NYPOST conservatives, to use your language. In fact, I can’t believe the residents fought tooth and nail against a NASCAR track. Too bad. I for one would have loved it.
golden,
You realize, of course, that sophisticates like Skor don’t consider Staten Island to really be part of New York City.
I am in the fleet taxi business in NY and I can honestly say that about 90% of what is written above is incorrect. Where do you people get your info?
‘NYcabs’ writes,…where do you people get your info?…
Apparently, not yet from you, so how about giving us your side of the issue? Seriously, we’d like to know.
I hail from Baruth’s neck of the woods, but due to a family issue, I am in week 6 of a 7 week stay in the Big Apple. It is all well and good to crow about using the subways, but there are lots of places that they do not go from and to, and they are not friendly to folks suffering physical problems.
I have taken dozens of cab rides during this sojourn. I for one am looking forward to the new cabs. Most of the cabs in the city right now are Ford Escapes, Ford Panthers, or Toyota Camrys. The Escape is a nightmare to get in and out of. The rear doors are tiny and high up.
The Camrys are easier, but the seat area is tiny. The Panthers are big enough, but the rear seats are dank caves, and they are hard to climb out of.
The best vehicles are the small number of Ford Transit Connect vans. They are the easiest to get in and out of. Their biggest flaw is their miniscule leg room.
I hope the Nissan van will be as easy to get in and out of as the Transits are, although a few more inches of leg room would be nice.
What I would really like to see is the return of the Checker:-)
I really don’t give a fig about hybrids, although I suspect that they are too fussy and expensive for this type of duty. What I don’t understand is why they are not going to diesel.
Having seen the interior of the passenger-oriented Transit Connects, I’m disappointed Ford doesn’t simply add another set of mounting bosses set back 6″ in that cavernous cab; that would still allow for easy wheelchair access through the rear doors and securement behind the rear bench while giving mid-seat passengers good stretching room
First, for the individual who likened the Americans With Disabilities Act with permanent employment for litigators,no, the act was to accommodate intellectually and educationally whole citizens who aren’t able to navigate manually actuated entry doors, stairs, steps,and the like, in commercial concerns and public buildings. Break a shoulder, a leg, a hip, etc, even temporarily, and then you may be able to imagine what someone with a permanent disability had to deal with before the act took full effect.
There’s probably little litigation going on now, as wise companies decided to invite a fuller cross section of their customer base to do business with them.
A couple of people wished for the return of the Checker cab. The biggest and probably first roadblock is that New York City TLC presently has around 13,000 medallions in circulation. That’s a lot of Checkers to round up and rehab. Then, how about making them ‘greener’ than they needed to be in the last year of production, 1982?
Then, making a certain percentage of them wheelchair accessible and comfortable is another hurdle. They did make bubbletop versions of Checkers for just this purpose, but it was probably more cost-effective at the initial point of assembly than retrofitting standard Checkers now.
Lastly, the availability of replacement parts, like fenders and hoods. My understanding is that these are just a junkyard item, if even available there at all.
The qustion has been raised on how the Japanese-Mexican Nissan was chosen, but what I would like to see is the money trail. Find that, and you’ll have your answer.
In NYC, the best way to get around quickly is a cab. Some of the subway stations are a bit intimidating – not the structures, but the…ahem…”things” that inhabit them that kind of resemble humans or near-humans.
No, I’m not referring to the less-fortunate, either, in case I have to explain.
> In NYC, the best way to get around quickly is a cab.
That’s a weird way of spelling bicycle: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-05-21/local/17924284_1_bike-subway-times-square
The taxi system in Dublin was deregulated 12 years ago in response to a court ruling.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmhsncwojoj/rss2/
Like NYC the price of a taxi plate (medallion) was inflated due to restricted supply, the gain went to the (connected) plate owners rather than the city or the residents who suffered higher fares and not enough taxis at busy times. Simply setting a price for the medallions and selling as many as people wanted to buy solved that problem and pleased everyone other than existing plate owners.
What should have but didn’t happen in Ireland as plates were deregulated was the introduction of new regulations covering the type and quality of vehicles used as taxis. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that the city would control everything in the cab down to the credit card terminals and the signage in the back of the cab. They want to make sure every customer has a decent experience for precisely the same reasons McDonald’s does.
Do you want to hail a cab and be driven around in a 10 year old Corolla that stinks of cigarettes? Happened to me in Dublin.
Or haggle with the driver over payment? I took a cab ride in Moscow years ago and agreed a price in cigarettes, when we arrived at the destination the guy wanted a carton. One convenience I have not seen offered elsewhere was the bottle of vodka in the back of the driver’s seat.
” They want to make sure every customer has a decent experience for precisely the same reasons McDonald’s does.”
Yes, and just like that’s the job of the McDonald’s corp and their franchisees and not the job of the county health department, likewise making sure that cab customers have a uniformly good experience is the job of the taxi companies and medallion holders, not the Taxi Licensing Commission.
I was thinking the same thing when I read that. Sounds like the TLC is more of an extortionist mafioso organization than a simple oversight committee.
“Do you want to hail a cab and be driven around in a 10 year old Corolla that stinks of cigarettes? Happened to me in Dublin.”
You poor thing. I take it the cab driver put a gun to your head to get in?
I take it the cab driver put a gun to your head to get in?
Have you ever tried to get into the second cab in line at the airport because the first one in line was a clapped out death trap?
IIRC, the law in Dublin is that you can’t pick and choose which cab you take–you take the first one in line or don’t get in a cab.
“Do you want to hail a cab and be driven around in a 10 year old Corolla that stinks of cigarettes? Happened to me in Dublin.”
I was in Dublin two years ago, they were using Mondeos, E-classes and fricking Jag XJs as taxis on O’Connell. Next time don’t shoot for a beater cab, friend.
Now in the East well, the Western tourist faces a greater chance of taxi driver extortion, but I would say this comes with the territory.
They more recently introduced new regulations in Ireland and the quality of taxis has improved… and yeah you can hail a guy then tell him to move on if you don’t like the cab but that gets old quickly when you need to be somewhere.
From my point of view taxis are a utility regulated by the city and an important part of how residents and tourists experience NYC in particular. Having decent taxis service is as essential as having water, power or getting the subway to run on time.
Yup, there are reasons why NYC cabs are regulated, which seems to be a shock to most of the tea-bags-for-brains folks inhabiting Dumbfark, Flyover State. It also never ceases to amaze me how many of these tea-tards don’t want anyone in New York dictating to them in their loser trailer-park state, but have no problems dreaming up solutions for what they perceive as problems in New York.
Prior to Depression 1.0, there were no restrictions on how many people could operate cabs in NYC. When the Great Depression took hold, lots of men tried cab driving at the very same time demand for cab rides fell because so many people were out of work. The results shouldn’t surprise anyone, except for tea-tards. Cab drivers started fighting over fairs and turf because there wasn’t enough work to go around. Many cab drivers were abusive to their customers. The administration of Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia proposed a medallion system to regulate cabs and limit the numbers of cabs on the street so that cab drivers could actually hope to earn an honest living, unlike Mittens “Creative Destruction, I Don’t Pay Taxes” Romney.
The first medallions issued were not sold, but issued by lottery. A medallion holder was required to operate a cab a certain minimum number of hours, was required to abide by all TLC regulations, and was not allowed to sell the medallion since he didn’t own it.
Over the years, the rules were changed to allow medallions to be sold. At first, the medallions owners were required to be directly involved in operating taxis. Today the rules allow for unrestricted trade in medallions. The owner does not need to be directly involved in operating a cab, instead they lease the medallion to someone who does. This resulted in the inevitable speculation in taxi medallions that we have today.
The solution to the problem is simple: Require medallion owners TO BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN OPERATING A TAXI, just like the old days.
You lost me at Tea bags for brains….
More proof that New York City is the most provincial small town on the planet. Please, go on, tell us how open minded and tolerant you are.
It mystifies me why people who live in the world capitol of public urination think they’re so sophisticated.
BTW, if I come up with a juvenile, childish mocking nickname for Mr. Obama, will you promise not to call me a racist?
Why is NYC becoming a socialist city in the US? you have to buy a certain cab, you cannot get a huge soft drink, no transfats, Bloomberg must be a fan of Castro.
Why didn’t Bloomberg require an American made taxi? Chrysler T&C, Chrysler 300, Chevy Impala? Maddness.
Chrysler Vans are built in Ontario, afaik there were no US built vehicles in the competition.
From the pro-union, buy American point of view, Canada and the U.S. are “America” whereas Mexico is a foreign country usually mentioned in the same sentence as China and Japan.
Because Emperor Bloomberg is transforming NYC into a city for the rich and the rich “intellectuals” would rather drive (or in this case ride) imports.
What about the civilian variant, a truly mini minivan?
Approximate dimensions of the UK version: about 174″ long, 67″ wide, 73″ high, which is a smidge smaller than the US Transit Connect.
Ridley Scott’s Blade Runner got it right. Though the city on the other coast?
As a long time NY’r who is a car owner, every day mass transit user and occasional cab passenger I find the idea of an official, one size fit’s all cab to be just not necessary. The cab market works quite well as it is. There is a wide variety of makes and models of cabs available that suit the public quite well. From Prius’ which get double the MPG of the NV,diesel Jetta’s to various mini-vans and Ford Escape Hybrids they all see to fit the needs of passengers and get the same or better MPG. I’m 6’2″ and can fit comfortably in any of these vehicles. Even in the heyday of the Checker Cab many owners still used other mid ex. Dodge Coronet or full sized ex. Impala, cars that were quite durable in Travis Bickel era NYC.
I been living in NYC 10 years. And ride in cabs almost every day. No way are those smaller Prius and Escape cabs comfortable. I don’t know why you are spreading misinformation but its just not true.
Once you put a divider in – even cars with big backseats – there is simply no leg room for taller individuals. I am 6’4″ but its not even that room for my 5’4 girlfriend.
To clarify actually my 6’2″ frame can fit in most of these cabs though the regular wheelbase Crown Vic w/divider can be a bit tight. The LWB version is much better. The Prius and Escape fit fairly well. I have yet to sit in back of a Jetta but I am sure it is tight for me, I wonder why a compact was approved since they are tight in back. Jetta TDI wagon that might fit well. Do I wish for the room of a Checker, sure but one-size-fits all taxi of tomorrow is not the answer. Maybe there should be some minimum rear seat size requirements before any cab is approved, that way there can be a decent variety of manufacturers producing cabs.
What they don’t realize is that the Scion xB, the box on wheels, makes the most perfect cab ever. Roomy back set. Trim size (crucial to keep cabs from blocking traffic, as they are wont to do). Cheap and efficient.
Absolutely perfect.
I think you understimate teh size of dividers. That car has great leg room for a economy car in the back. But the divider will make that tight.
A purpose built cab is a very good idea if you arent’ going to mandate long wheelbase crown vics.
Some very odd comments here..
I mean the Ford Escape…as a good Cab? Seriously. That thing has ZERO leg room. I purposely skip it. Most crown vics are extended wheelbase and very roomy indeed. I will miss them.
The connect things seems okay – not sure why Nissan got picked over that though..
As for regulation – you can be a tea party guy and support SOME regulation. Come on now -lets not be so polarized. They need taxi cab regulation to prevent you from being driven by crazy people and getting rejected by anyone who just doesn’t want to take you somewhere – or having some randomnly high rates being thrown your way.
Taxis in NYC are heck of alot better then San Fran from what I can tell. Actually I get why NYC guys are so cocky – it does have the best public transportation in the US near as I can tell..
All I see is a Johnny Cab.
Johnnycab: The fare is 18 credits, please.
[Quaid gets out]
Douglas Quaid: Sue me, dickhead!
[cab tries to run him down, crashes, and explodes]
Johnnycab: We hope you enjoyed the ride!