Jeremy writes:
Sajeev,
Since you asked so nicely I decided to upgrade myself from long time listener to first time caller. Maybe the Best and Brightest will have Words of Wisdom. Maybe? Definitely!
Let’s say a year from now I really should be getting a new set of wheels. Could be sooner but I’ll probably put it off as long as possible. The ’98 Grand Caravan with 140,000 miles (and AWD!) just sort of scrapes by. I know its problems and manage them accordingly. Hopefully with no surprises. I’ve had it for a couple years so it wasn’t me that put on all those miles.
Anyway, the driving that I do is torture on an engine: very short trips. In the morning I run the kids over to day care. Residential streets, two stop signs. There and back home is 2 miles and usually less than 15 minutes. Park in the garage, pretend to work all day, repeat the routine to go pick up the kids. When I have a meeting, it’s usually just another 2 mile round trip. I can go for over three weeks and not stop for gas. Iowa winters may not be as cold as some but it’s still an ice cold engine that hardly ever warms up. When the weather is nice I’ll ride my bicycle to meetings (comin’ through!!) but that doesn’t work so well with the kid shuttle. Grocery runs are maybe a 10 mile round trip but there are other errands along the way. Grandparents are 200 miles away so a few times a year we do get out.
Someday the van is just going to give up. The more I think about it the *gasp* Volt would be perfect. I would rarely need gas! I’m not torturing the engine! But that price is not so perfect. I’m sure it’s a very nice car but if I wanted a $35,000 Cavalier I’d go shop for a Cimarron. Back in my young and cool (I wish) days I always had my sights on certain cars. Now it just has to have wheels and I’ll drive it. Oh, what to do.
Well, crap. Maybe this was more of a “New or Used” topic. No matter, thanks for listening!
Sajeev writes:
The Volt is one of those fantastic machines that’s hard not to appreciate, even if you’d never consider it for your garage. Then there’s the eye watering sticker price to knock you back to reality, much like the truth behind the delusional poster above. Political considerations aside, the Volt’s technology is so damn cool for you: short trips and a gas engine for emergencies. And since Iowa winters “may not be as cold as some”, there’s no excuse not to fill up every month at Ye Olde Gas Station. Even with $10,000 off these days, will you recover the Volt’s price difference compared to an incentivized Chevy Cruze, or similar 4-cyl machine?
You have no justification for Voltification.
Especially considering the age of your current vehicle and your tone of general indifference to owning a new car! And while the Prius is much cheaper, in New or Used terms, any $10,000-20,000 used car is a far better use of your resources.
I remember that poster all too well. I wanted it so bad when I was in High School. The taillights had L.E.D.s in them. Oh the technology in the early 90’s.
I think I still want one! Off to eBay for me!
There’s a few lighted ones on there around $135, yikes. Conventional poster a little bit more reasonable.
Bought one on eBay for $25, framed, with LEDs. Fingers crossed it isn’t a POS.
That poster (sans LEDs) is in my parent’s house, somewhere. At least I hope it moved with them. I’ll probably find it in 20 years and be ready to put it back up on the wall where it belongs.
I agree the Volt is NOT for the poster. Period.
But in $10-20K “used car land”, AVOID. Currently, cars are depreciating almost/at linear if they are any good. E.G, my Dad’s Prius (early Gen2, 90k+ miles) used is about half what he paid for it. My 2006 S2000 which I bought used CPO in 2008 for $22K at 35K miles? Its now $19K and 90K miles on craigslist if I wanted to sell it (i Don’t)…
Cars are just NOT depreciating right now if they are any good.
But if you buy new, you KNOW the provinance of the car: that the oil changes were always done, that the more infrequent but important fluid changes are completed, that it wasn’t driven by a complete idiot, etc. Buy a used car for $15K, and you have NO clue.
The sticker may be sky high (to not even remotely cover the cost to GM) but the lease deals were ridiculously cheap (to make the taxpayer’s, I mean GM’s loss even worse).
You’ll spend more time filling out the paperwork on a new car than you will over the next year or so pumping gas into what you got.
If you want to equal what a new Volt will cost and keep the drive you already have, give your kids a couple of bucks in change every day and on the way to day care have them throw the change out the window. They can make believe they are J.D. Rockefeller tossing dimes to the poor.
If you don’t trust the GC for long trips, rent for those trips.
Why a Volt and not some other hybrid? Don’t get it.
John
You have a two mile commute. The Volt costs so much because you’re buying a battery that can go 40 miles on a charge. That’s a lot of expensive battery capacity that you don’t need.
I own a Volt as my daily driver and it’s a great car, it really is, but I drive 30 miles per day through heavy stop-and-go traffic, so I get about $150/month in gas savings as payback. You wouldn’t reap nearly this much from it, so unless you want the Volt for other reasons, it’s probably not for you.
Sajeev, thanks for posting my letter! The intent of my ramblings was to get some advice about the life (or early death) of an engine that rarely gets warmed up in the dead of winter. Maybe all those short trips are not the problem I think they are. I was thinking Volt, or really any plug-in, as a way of avoiding the engine wear entirely. Not that I wanted to spend that much money. On the other hand, it would likely take a very long time to wear out a couple inexpensive rides, one mile at a time, and still be money ahead.
PS: There was a version of that poster with actual lights?!?
get an engine block heater. Uses a few volts; keeps the engine warm. Much better all around.
Block heaters can actually use a significant amount of wattage (up to 1500w in some cases). Small cars have smaller draw, but I can see the difference on my electricity bill when I use vs. don’t use it.
Since most block heaters reach peak temperature in around 2 hours, I set mine on a timer to turn on about 4 hours before I leave in the morning to avoid 6-8 hours of wasted electricity.
Cars that sit get what dealers call “lot rot.” If you take a 30 minute drive once a week to heat up the engine and all the other systems it can help a lot. Why? The a/c needs to be run to keep seals and hoses working, the exhaust needs to heat up to get moisture out of the system and prevent rust, etc. With a little more driving your GC may last longer than you think.
Enjoy the scenery. Drive your kids to a state/national park. Drive through a crappy neighborhood so your kids see what happens when you make bad decisions. Deliver food to the old/sick/poor/hungry. Drive to the cool restaurant on the other side of town. You posted to a car blog; you have to like driving a little bit, right?
Have you considered the GEM electric cars? You probably have heard of them since they are made in Iowa. They aren’t as whizzbang glamorous as the latest EV’s, and resemble dorky golf-carts.
IIRC the 4 seater starts around 11K (without doors/heater) but you can customize it with hard doors and a heater for a total cost of around 15K. It charges from a standard 110V line and has a 20 to 30 mile range, depending on temperature and driving conditions (although things may have improved since the last time I looked)
You are right about that. All those cold starts and short trips are hard on any gasoline engine.
With your type of driving, why not consider the Mitsubishi Miev? With the federal tax credit, that car is only ~ $20,000. The range is only 60 miles, but that’s good enough for your purpose.
I dont think you will have much to worry about, more than anything else that age.
All I would do is always use synthetic oil (changed every six months regardless of mileage), change your tranny fluid to synthetic, and change your fuel filter if you hadnt when you bought it. With such low mileage you might want to put a fuel stabilizer for ethanol blended gasoline to help counteract moisture build up in your gas.
It sounds like you live close enough to town that you wont get stranded if something goes on the car, so by all means keep that car running (within reason of course).
Crap! I sold that picture at a garage sale earlier this summer for $15 tops. In working order too. I should have known better and Ebayed. Good memories of my brother and mom giving me the picture for my 15th birthday.
The Nissan Leaf would be a better answer for Jeremy if he was willing to spend the money on a new vehicle. Since all of his regular trips are short and close to home with dead time in between the 60-80 mile (depending on HVAC use) range of a pure electric would be adequate. For the occasional 200 mile trip to the Grandparents, either rent a new van or keep the old one healthy enough for occasional road trips.
Agreed. I just bought a Leaf (lease), and it would be perfect for this use case.
+1
I can understand why the poster is viewed as delusional, particularly if you are a postgrad liberal arts major who currently works in the foodservice industry. However, I think the message is still very important, because it reflects the idea that hard work and the acquisition of knowledge are necessary requisites for a better life. Even if you don’t get to the level found in the poster, the investment you make in yourself will bring you closer to the dream, even if it only means that you are able to afford and maintain your track-day Miata, WRX or 5.0 Mustang.
I personally think that young men need to be told that:
1. Hard work and study are the price to pay for success
and
2. They have the potential to succeed
As a guy who went from being nearly left back in high school to getting straight A’s and eventually graduating college with a 3.95 GPA, I have to tell you that change came about because I had a reason to believe, in both my chance for success and in myself. Posters like the one above may be hokey and somewhat disingenuous, but they have given many young men a reason to keep fighting, keep trying, and eventually make something of themselves.
You could buy a mostly used up $2,000 Caravan every two years for the next two decades and still not approach half the MSRP of a Volt.
HA! I remember a friend in high school that that same poster in his living room complete with the light-up tail lamps.
I haven’t spoken to him in a long while, but last I recall he never went to University, but became a certified welder making good coin doing high risk type stuff.
The OP should drive that car until the wheels fall off. I would not spend $10k or even half that on a car that would be tortured in the way he describes.
I seem to see this a little differently than most.
Since you drive your vehicle regularly but hardly any distance, this is a perfect situation to justify buying a used dream car of your choice. You average around 20 miles a week? Who cares if it averages less than 20 mpg!? At that rate, you’re spending $4 a week on gasoline to cruise the hot-rod of your choice! Easy to live with.
I used similar logic in my most recent vehicle acquisition. I switched from a job that required me to drive 300 miles a week (plus tolls) to a job that requires me to drive 115 miles a week with no tolls PLUS my wife and I can now commute together.
The massive reduction in commuting distance and associated costs prompted me to get the commuter of my desires (’13 Charger R/T Track Pack) as the net savings practically make the increased cost of the vehicle a wash.
So I say when the Grand Caravan gives up the ghost, go for the guzzler as you won’t be gouged for the difference on gas!
1 mile each way? Bike trailer. 6 inches of snow? Same trailer with the jogging stroller attachment on instead, and some decent boots. Then get a passable road trip and shopping car for $10k or less and get several trouble-free years out of it by driving it only 2,000 miles a year.
Why worry about what the short trips do to the engine? Maybe they shorten the engine’s life, maybe they don’t. No sense worrying about it. Just keep driving it until the engine does give up, then get something else.
It sounds like you aren’t particular about what you drive, so replacing a car on short notice shouldn’t be a big deal.
Stop running over kids. Its bad for the suspension.