A free-maintenance program introduced earlier this year to get its full-size pickups moving was expanded across the entire 2014 line. For most 2014 vehicles, Chevrolet, Buick and GMC dealers will complete an oil and filter change, four-wheel tire rotation, and conduct a 27-point vehicle inspection based on what’s called for in the vehicle’s maintenance plan.
According to GM CEO Dan Akerson, this plan sells more cars:
“We know that customers who service their vehicles at our dealerships are much more likely to purchase another GM product down the road. It’s all the more important to bring customers to our service facilities for routine maintenance to further enhance the quality and reliability of their GM vehicles.”
Dealers will tell Akerson that such programs are a great way to sell lucrative service, whether it’s paid by the customer or by the company under warranty. Once that car is on the lift, a good service writer will always find something that needs attention, “now that the car’s here, might as well.”
So no freebies for Cadillacs?
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/06/lincoln-cuts-free-maintenance-program-in-half/
Kreindler pointed out that Cadillac provides 4 years of maintenance.
Thx
28-Cars-Later
My mother’s 2010 STS had to go in yesterday because the Check Engine Light was on – and then went off. She claimed the car was “sputtering” at lights so I figured a bad spark plug. Turned out to be a “bad coil”.
They lent her a brand new Cruze (covered under Warranty) and she’ll get her car back today.
Two days in a row with people unable to understand the difference between a warranty and free scheduled maintenance.
@Bigtruck…what your Mom got was warranty service…it has nothing to do with the article.
hey now!
So you drive an STS and it breaks down and you get an f-ing CRUZE for loaner? How embarrassing.
I do know the difference. Only reason I posted is because 28 mentioned “Cadillac”.
I find it funny the warranty rental was a Cruze and not something like an ATS.
If the car or truck needs something additional that is called for in factory maintenance schedule and the service advisor does not tell the customer, they are simply not doing their job. It is what customers expect. Of course the customer should then always be free to proceed with the recommendation or request it be noted in their RO documentation for future review.
Disclaimer: I am a service advisor at a car dealership.
service tech’s finding items for warranty repair always seemed like a tricky thing for OEMs to navigate. Maybe you can shed some light on it – what do OEMs do to police it? Are spare parts priced differently in warranty repairs versus when the customer is footing the bill? Is there some handling fee or differential labor rate that the OEM pays for vs the customers?
Good questions.
At the OEM I work for, if a tech finds something that should be repaired under warranty while doing routine maintenance work that the customer DID NOT complain about, the RO must have an authorization signature from the service manager in order to proceed with the repair under warranty. Warranty claims can be audited and if proper procedure is not followed we can be charged back for the repair per our franchise agreement.
As for parts and labor cost differentials between customer-pay and warranty-pay work… the labor rate/hr is slightly different but not by that much. We generate revenue and profit from doing warranty work as well as customer pay. If something is a judgement call we err on the side of the customer because we will still make money on the repair and generally the customer is happy and will continue to come back to us.
Of course for the above we are just talking about one dealership and one OEM, so there may be differences out there :)
So, does the service manager tell the customer that he should carefully check out the way the car is behaving, hint-hint?
Or do they quietly sweep it under the rug and let it turn into a for-fee repair when the customer finally realizes that the item in question isn’t right but the car is out of warranty?
A good example would be the A/C compressor. It often runs when the defroster is working but not everybody would notice this, if the warm air is keeping the windshield clear. If this is noticed in December, the car goes off warranty over the Winter, the customer is sure to find the problem by June. If the tech is paying attention, it should be obvious that the compressor isn’t working.
Do you leave this to be a Summer Surprise?
Or do you tell him?
If I bought a car and it needed a new A/C compressor a couple months out of warranty, well the tech saved the automaker a few hundred bucks in warranty service but may also cost the automaker a customer, even if I didn’t figure out that the tech knew. Fix something I didn’t know about under warranty… I’m grateful. Expensive failures outside warranty tend to send me looking elsewhere for a car.
KixStart,
Allow me to quote myself: “We generate revenue and profit from doing warranty work as well as customer pay.”
So in answer to your question… we do not “quietly sweep it under the rug” on the notion that we can do the work later on a customer-pay basis vs. doing it now at warranty rate. Again, warranty work is a significant component of our revenue and profit stream.
Having said the above, I am not naïve to the practices that some dealerships engage in with regards to this and it is, of course, a sad reality. In my opinion though, they are doing themselves a disservice. Kind of like the old “a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.” If you can do the repair now under warranty but decide to “let it go” on the idea the customer will return to have it done later (assuming the repair is legitimate and actually needs to be done)… how can you guarantee they actually will return? What if they move to another state? There are a variety of reasons they may never come back and then you’ve made a grand total of $0.00 for the needed repair… and likely one of your competitors will end up getting and doing the work… ouch!
On a related note, are you aware that the opposite happens to what you describe? True story that happened to me several years ago: I took my car into the dealership for some basic maintenance. The service advisor (who I had a reasonably good relationship with) asked me “have you noticed any odd antifreeze type smell?” I said no, I hadn’t. He asked “are you sure???” in sort of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink sort of way. Turned out there was a factory warranty extension for some coolant gaskets that was about to expire on my vehicle. So, in effect, the dealership prodded me into a complaint about something they could fix under warranty now rather than wait until it became an issue after the warranty expired and it came out of my pocket. Now, would this ethical in the eyes of the manufacturer? I’m guessing the answer to that would be… “no”.
Regular service pays better than warranty work. you need PROOF for warranty work. With regular service work you can charge full price just to “change the brake fluid”… in the master cylinder reservoir. Theyll be back for another “change” in 2 years :)
Its not a full bleed, but better than nothing, right?
How is that an example? There are plenty of ways to cheat warranty if you really wanted to. I don’t get the point you’re trying to make.
It depends on the manufacturer and the dealer itself. Mercedes pays for problems you find during service. The A or B service is mostly about the inspection the customer gets. We would be ripping the customer off if we didn’t note an issue we find, and Mercedes is ok with that. They call for old parts back, especially if it is something suspicious or expensive. They also track repairs, and see if one tech is doing unusually high numbers of a particular repair.
“They call for old parts back, especially if it is something suspicious or expensive.”
I’ve always trusted mechanics who show me the broken parts and explain why they’re broken a lot more for this reason. I love when a mechanic calls me into his shop while my car is on a lift to show me exactly what’s wrong.
The stealership service departments absolutely don’t want to do this sort of thing, which always makes me suspicious.
$70 cabin filter for a 2013 xB. Then i showed my friend how easy it is to do. 5 mins, no tools required. The filter is a flat rectangle, and several can easily be made from a good HEPA HVAC filter.
$70 is insane. Why not just buy a genuine part online for $15? This is just the first link I could find — I’m sure there are others available.
http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Scion-Cabin-Filter-87139-YZZ08/dp/B007QVVVJK
EXACTLY! Most stupid people dont look at “first links” or anything. they listen to the SA and nod. Then swipe the debit card… lol:D
How did the air filter get clogged so quickly? Those usually last 5 years or so.
“A good service writer will always find something”.
This implys that either something will be wrong on every car in for standard service which further implys that said car is so shoddy that something will need to be repaired at the interval for oil changes…. This is bad enough but…
The alternative interpretation is that a “good service writer” is also a crook along the lines of the old service station scams where the attendant with a hidden blade would nick a belt while (short stick) checking your oil back in the old full service days.
Given the improvements in auto quality over the last decades I doubt the former ….. And I do know that while there are bad people out there and some of them will be service writers at auto dealers I very much doubt that that those bad eggs will be more than a small minority of said service writers.
I had free service ( including wipers but not I think clutches) for the first years on the last new car I bought. It did get me to drive quite a long way to get that “free” work performed they never once “found something” extra that they could either charge the manufacturer for under warenty or charge me for as a not covered item.
Now when this “free” period ended I took and take my car to a local independent mechanic. But if I do decide to replace this now 10 year old car with another by the same maker I will be very Likely to go back to that dealer when I go shopping.
Most people in biz are honest traders or they would not last very long. This is even more true in the connected world we now live in. The impact of things like Angie’s list and yelp and other things like easy access to BBB info means that the numbers of dodgy ” honest Al ” dealers has shrunk to its lowest level perhaps lowest ever.
Oh, theres still plenty of em out there.
Servioe Writers are hired by the dealer to make money for the dealer. They hope everyone will follow the 7500, 15000, 30k/60k/90k religiously.
Some people are afraid and they do. Whatever makes em feel good.
Generally, most newer Japanese cars only need (in order of importance/service life): oil, filters, other fluids, plugs. Mebbe a timing belt in there somewhere if applicable.
Lubricating door strikers is just fluff.
As a former Service Advisor, it is not “us” who “finds stuff” on the car, that would be the Tech. The Service Advisors role at time of write up is to sell recommended service, for example if the car is supposed to have a timing belt change at the mileage you are at, but you are just in for an oil change, we obviously try to sell you the belt. After the car goes in the shop, the tech does an inspection, and based on what he finds, the Advisor will put together an estimate and try to sell the work to the customer.
It ranked as one of the worst jobs I ever had. As a “car guy” myself I knew BS when I smelled it, yet my job was to sell it. Not everything is a ripoff, I’m not saying that. But maintainence recommendations are open to interpertation-for example, the OEM I worked for recommended doing a brake fluid flush @ 30K miles, IF you live in a humid climate. Well where I live (New England) it is humid for maybe 2-3 months out of the year. So of course they wanted me to sell the Brake flush @ 30K. I just didn’t feel right about it and got out as soon as I could, which took 2 years.
::After the car goes in the shop, the tech does an inspection, and based on what he finds, the Advisor will put together an estimate and try to sell the work to the customer.::
If that’s what actually happened, I’d be fine with it for the most part, however, I’ve had a service advisor tell me “your belts are all cracked up” solely based on the age of the car without even opening the hood or having the tech inspect them. That car had incredibly low mileage (probably 4-5K/year), and I had had my indy inspect the belts not long before that visit. In addition, the service advisor didn’t say that until I had informed him that my car was actually 2 years older than he had written on the service ticket, but had low mileage.
::the OEM I worked for recommended doing a brake fluid flush @ 30K miles, IF you live in a humid climate.::
FWIW, probably a good idea to do a brake fluid change every 2 years (which would probably correspond to 30K) no matter what, maybe 3 at the most. Brake fluid is hydrophilic, so you can end up with water in the system that can make brake components rust. Also, the east coast is pretty humid compared to certain parts of California, so the definition of humid is relative (so to speak).
::Servioe Writers are hired by the dealer to make money for the dealer. They hope everyone will follow the 7500, 15000, 30k/60k/90k religiously.::
SoCalMikester, are you not recommending doing the work that the book says? If so, remind me never to buy your cars.
What I criticize is when the dealership has a “30,000 mile service” that doesn’t match what the book says and includes all this other garbage that doesn’t need to be done. Some stealerships will call this the “premium” service schedule or some such nonsense, when it’s really just excessive.
To be clear where I worked we didn’t engage in the practice of the advisor selling wear items based on mileage sight unseen (Brakes/Serp Belts/Tires/Wipers etc). Personally I would run from a shop that did that. We didn’t even try to sell engine air filters based on mileage, we let the tech check it. We did however, recommend the customer follow the recommended maintainence guidelines.
Good to hear, Tim.
By the way, as an example of the “premium” service garbage, check out this Infiniti service schedule. For a regular 30K service interval, here’s the list:
o Replace engine oil and filter
o Replace climate controlled seat filter (M45/M35, if so equipped)
o Replace engine air filter
o Replace in-cabin microfilter
o Rotate tires (except G35 Sedan Sport and G37 Coupe Sport)
o Inspect the following [removed the list, it’s long]
Here’s the “premium” service at 30K — this is not required for warranty purposes, but is the standard upsell by the stealership:
o Replace engine oil and filter
o Lubricate all locks/hinges
o Replace automatic transmission fluid
o Replace climate controlled seat filter (M45/M35, if so equipped)
o Replace differential oil
o Replace engine air filter
o Replace engine coolant/flush system
o Replace engine drive belts
o Replace in-cabin microfilter
o Replace manual transmission oil
o Replace radiator cap
o Replace transfer case oil (4WD/AWD)
o Replace wiper blades
o Rotate tires (except G35 Sedan Sport and G37 Coupe Sport)
o Optional: flush automatic transmission (flush with ATF)
o Inspect the following: [similar list here, although shorter because it doesn’t include the items like manual transmission oil or differential oil]
::https://owners.infinitiusa.com/iowners/content/manualsandguides/M/2008/2008_I_SMG.pdf::
This is a good selling point (most people don’t know what maintenance is needed on a car and are afraid of maintenance bills) and very low cost to the manufacturer but also a very small benifit to the consumer. If you look at the scheduled maintenance guides for most modern cars nothing other than 4-5 oil changes and tire rotations are required for the first 36,000 miles, maybe one air filter change. So even at retail cost this is maybe a $100- $150 benefit to the customer and probably costs the manufacturer $75 in parts and labor.
I’m not sure which dealer/car you have been looking at, but on my last new car (Honda Civic Si) it was ~40 for an oil change (every 6k) and ~130 for an oil change, tire rotation and inspection (every 12k). At 2 years brake fluid is due and that is easily another 100+ at a dealer. Cabin and air filter at 24-36k is another 100. So, 36k or 3yrs is 700+ in what a customer would pay for maintenance. More if they follow all the “recommendations” which exceeded the Honda requirements in my case.
Ford is $39.95 for The Works, which includes oil change, tire rotation, and mutipoint inspection. This is every 10000 miles. Besides the air filter, thats about it until over 100000 miles. I usually get a $10 off coupon every month and every 4th oil change is free.
On the Fords that meet SULEV or PZEV standards you don’t even have to worry about the engine air filter change. It is oil, filter and tire rotations until 100K when you need to change the coolant and spark plugs.
Most rotations are unnecessary. Why?
FWD wear the fronts out first, and the new tires are recommended (by the tire makers and any reputable tire installer) to go on the rear.
Boom- free rotation! Go ahead and wear those tires out!
You’re getting hosed because you’re going to the stealership. That $130 for oil change, tire rotation, and inspection is a joke! Your mechanic is required to do a portion of that inspection every time the car is brought in, and the rest doesn’t take very long for an experienced mechanic. It should be more like $45-50 if an oil change is $40 (which is in itself high if they’re giving you dino vs. synthetic). $100 for cabin + air filter is also a joke in most cars — there is 2 minute 14 second video on changing the air filter on a Civic Si on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6IFKDLLihw ). A lot of cars have 10K oil change intervals now too, especially those that run synthetic from the factory.
Even with the inflated dealer prices, $233/year that you quoted is quite low for maintenance. Most people who don’t know better will pay much more than that by not negotiating the car price properly or getting screwed by F&I. The cost to the manufacturer is much lower than this, of course, and you will always find people who think they’re getting a deal by getting free maintenance.
The real price of maintenance within warranty (excluding dealer markup) is generally quite low. Even on cars with 4/50 like many German cars, most of the items during warranty are glorified oil changes, although if you have a diesel, there may be a little more (e.g. if you have urea injection). Often there will be a 55K or 75K interval that costs noticeably more than anything 50K or below.
Most indies would charge a fraction of what the stealership charges you, although the benefit of the stealership under warranty is that you’ll get silent recalls and flash updates as a matter of course. You just have to fend off the sales guy trying to sell you unnecessary service.
I completely agree with all of this. The alternative is DIY, or independent mechanic. I have done both, and now am pretty much 100% DIY. Even at an independent mechanic I still have to figure out for myself what maintenance is actually needed and give them clear instructions, otherwise you just get hosed for their 24k or 30k or whatever service which includes a bunch of stuff that your car may or may not need while potentially missing items it does need. Also, while oil changes are pretty much a wash, those less common items, like air filters, spark plug changes etc are much more economical to DIY. Whilst these are all very simple, it seems there is not much price competition on those items and so the mark up is quite extreme. Actually I’m pretty sure most places don’t make a profit on oil changes, but make up for it on the other services instead.
Also, most people I know who buy new cars, go to the dealer for their service under the belief that this helps keep their warranty intact and because of the loyalty they feel to that dealer. Actually, in reality it does mean they have a better chance of that dealer helping them rather than fighting them if something does come up. They also trust that the dealer will do a better job than an independent shop and that might also be true if you were to pick an independent shop at random.
Anyway, the point of my original post above was that this plan is saving much more than $100-$150 in comparison to having the car maintained at the dealer for 3yrs or 36k. (BTW, the article does not mention how long this free service lasts.)
::They also trust that the dealer will do a better job than an independent shop and that might also be true if you were to pick an independent shop at random.::
Agreed, if you’re going to the Jiffy Lube, and Gomer is topping off your radiator with the green stuff, that could be problematic for many cars.
::Also, most people I know who buy new cars, go to the dealer for their service under the belief that this helps keep their warranty intact and because of the loyalty they feel to that dealer.::
Yes, I said this, actually. I encourage people to continue going to the dealer through warranty because of silent recalls and TSBs and things like that and I’ve done so with new cars. However, I don’t know if I’d pay $130 at a Honda service department for that interval you mentioned — that would cause me to look elsewhere or ask another dealer what they charge.
Most dealer techs aren’t as good at diagnosis as I’d like, although sometimes it’s hard to tell because the sales guy tries to insulate you from the tech as much as possible. Some of the techs at dealers are just part changers and don’t really know much about diagnosing. I once noticed a misfire in 3rd and 4th gear at higher RPMs, and the idiot service salesman at the dealer claimed the tech couldn’t replicate the condition, even though my wife could — the tech clearly didn’t drive the car.
::Actually, in reality it does mean they have a better chance of that dealer helping them rather than fighting them if something does come up.::
To be fair, this is a benefit I’m ignoring, although it hasn’t been that big of an issue for me. If you’ve been paying through the nose for dealer service, they will definitely fight for you on warranty stuff.
The one thing ive learned from my friend who has a Challenger SRT8 is either:
NEVER buy an SRT8 or
Read the forums and DIY.
Dealer service on them is like a donkeypunch. Because supercar!
My Scion xB friend is a chronic leaser. Thats another issue in and of itself, but I live dangerously and buy my japanese vehicles outright.
That said, “free” maintenance is there to protect the dealerships investment for the required 3 years.
Service writers love to suggest the recommendations. Its their job.
4-5 oil changes in 36K miles?! More like 2-3 these days, at least for European cars. And on my car, the OEM says to NOT rotate the tires, ever. A fact which my dealer loves to ignore, and tries to sell me on an annual rotation and balance, at my cost, of course.
Regular balances might not be bad. Get your tires at a non-dealership (I like Americas Tire, Costco, and Sams) and you get FREE rotations and balances. They arent paid by the auto makers, and generally do a superior job.
Tires are either in balance, or they are not. Especially on a car like a BMW, if a tire is out of balance you will KNOW it. My car is glass smooth at 110mph, the tires are very much in balance. Same with alignment – the car tracks like a frick’n laser beam on a sharks head. The tires are wearing perfectly evenly, front and rear. It doesn’t need an alignment. This is quite aside from the $350(!!) that the dealership wanted for these services. And again, BMW says in no uncertain terms in the manual NOT to rotate the tires anyway.
I get my tire work done at a very high-end shop that has Hunter road force balancing and alignment equipment AND the expertise to use it properly. They are also willing to align my sports cars with me sitting in them. Which becomes important when you weight >20% as much as the car.
That is the first time I’ve heard of a mfg recommending to not rotate the tires, unless of course they are a staggered fitment and use directional tires and/or wheels.
In the case of AWD or electronic on demand 4wd rotating the tires is very important particularly on those that are biased to front drive. You can get too much difference front to rear and end up in need of an expensive repair when the center diff or coupling gets trashed.
@Scoutdude
Page 224 of the 2011 3-series Owner’s Manual:
“Swapping wheels between axles
BMW advises against swapping wheels between the front and rear axles, even if all tires have the same size, as this could impair driving characteristics. If the tires are of mixed sizes, swapping wheels between the axles is not permissible.”
“Dealers will tell Akerson that such programs are a great way to sell lucrative service, whether it’s paid by the customer or by the company under warranty. Once that car is on the lift, a good service writer will always find something that needs attention, “now that the car’s here, might as well.””
Is this what other dealers also tell their manufacturers (BMW etc) since they offer “free” maintenance.
Some dealers will not be pleased with this. Profit is made in two ways – pricing it above the cost of the plan achieves up front profit, and the parts and labor profit inherent in each oil change provides subsequent profit. Dealers that currently sell maintenance coverage will lose the up front profit. If they sold a low percentage of their new car customers, then the GM plan is a win because more customers will have the coverage and they’ll make money on that many more maintenance visits down the the road. However, dealers that sold the plan to a high percentage of buyers will lose, as they are losing the profit on the initial sale.
But they make it up knowing that leased ‘Bu is now officially a CPO!
There’s no mention of dealer-produced maintenance schedules that list unneeded services at wallet-busting prices. Service writers and mechanics, often commissioned salesmen, cash in on customer trust to sell loads of pixie dust, called slamming.
It makes so much i get postcards and letters about recommended service!
I thought the official definition of slamming involved phone number jacking?
I think free maintenance during the comprehensive warranty period is probably a good idea for everyone. Among other things it eliminates a lot of room for dispute about warranty repairs, where there is some doubt as to whether the owner maintained the vehicle as required. Today, warranty repairs are a kind of feedback loop for the manufacturer as they inform the manufacturer about product weaknesses. I think all manufacturers — with the possible exception of Land Rover — have an interest in making their cars reliable during the first few years of ownership.
With my BMW, which had service bundled with the warranty, the dealer identified a slightly noisy water pump and replaced it under the warranty well before it failed (and my engine because well-known for a variety of cooling system failures).
As a busy person with limited time and moderate DIY skills, I’ve never been a fan of these plans — the “free” services usually aren’t much, but it gives the service department another touch point, or point of contact, to increase ancillary business through parts sales and the good old “You really ought to consider our $199 fuel system flush” along the way.
My hypothesis is that free maintenance plans pay for themselves over the typical 2-3 year period.
And they can have the salesmen try to upsell you to something newer, nicer, with Bluetooth connectivity!
dumber than a box of rocks.
but…its okay to give it away for free to GM retirees right?
I wonder if they will follow VW’s policy of 3 years/36000 miles of care-free maintinence followed by sodomizing customers at 40000 miles. Good old DSG flush and 40000 mile service, feel lucky if you get it under $1000.
Seems like you’re exaggerating a bit. This forum post said $399 for the service + $150 for the filter was the quote from one dealership (and according to the forum, you could do the filter yourself quite easily):
::http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4604789-DSG-Flush-and-Fill-for-2.0T-FSI-Jetta::
Another one said $349:
::http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22519::
You could probably get it done at an indy for even cheaper, although the fluids plus filter are probably alone over $100. I’ve heard $230 before, but don’t have one of these myself, YMMV. I’ve heard of some idiots on some forums paying $750 because they don’t know better.
“You could probably get it done at an indy for even cheaper”
Maybe a VW specialist would know what they are doing, but I’m not sure I would trust a basic indy shop to use the correct fluid and follow the fill procedure. The DSG service isn’t especially hard, but it is different, and needs some special tools to do it right (kind of like VW oil changes).
Saving a few bucks wouldn’t be worth a dead DSG because someone under-filled it with “universal fluid”.
Well I’m not suggesting getting an incompetent shop to do it… It’s not that different from certain other VW/Audi ATF fluid changes and most competent shops shouldn’t have an issue with this. If they have the proper computer systems and resources, all of this stuff is pretty easy for them to look up. I wouldn’t expect Jiffy Lube or a random tire shop to do this right (without knowing more about the tire shop at least).
You could bring the fluid yourself if you were that concerned that they’d put something other than VW DSG fluid — just get it from the parts department — but this shouldn’t be an issue with a good shop.
If it’s your style, there are even DIYs on making the tool:
::http://deviantspeed.com/diy-dsg-fill-tool-vw-vas6262::
I was quoted $289.95 recently at my VW dealer when I asked and the guy said they had recently lowered it because DSG owners were surprised at what the 40K service would cost. I can buy 5 litres of VW fluid and a filter for about $145 and do it myself or else spend twice that and have the dealer do it. Not sure which route I’ll take when the time comes. I definitely won’t be opting to have them do the other part of the 40K service since it’s just changing a bunch of filters. I can get the filters off Amazon or idparts and do that in my garage.
Maybe exaggerating a bit, but the VW dealer in Tucson wanted $1200 for the 40K service and DSG flush. I order a kit from ECS tuning and did it myself.
Bought a new GM owned vehicle a while ago that came w/3yr free service. Recommended oil changes were @ every 15000 miles/15 months, worked out to 2 free oil changes with the car @ the dealership for a day. no loaner just a shuttle ride. Not much of a deal when JIFFY LUBE can do a Synthetic premium service for about $90 and your on your way in 15-20 min.
Do you know what youre REALLY getting though? And theyll still try to sell you a tranny flush, new air and cabin filters (even if you just had them replaced).
I wouldn’t trust Jiffy Lube to do anything with my car. They probably are giving you donut oil instead of synthetic.
In addition, those guys are grossly incompetent and only upsell you. Someone on TTAC mentioned that the “service advisor” at Jiffy Lube first asked if his Ford Escape was 2WD or 4WD, and after being told it was 4WD, claimed it needed transfer case service.
And once again, here is a great example of the snark that makes some feel TTaC is biased against GM…
…Dealers will tell Akerson that such programs are a great way to sell lucrative service, whether it’s paid by the customer or by the company under warranty. Once that car is on the lift, a good service writer will always find something that needs attention, “now that the car’s here, might as well…
So when Toyota rolled out their 2/24 “free” service plan to help increase sales, post floor mat, stick gas pedal, misshaped gas pedal, wrong floor mat, double floor mat, fiasco, do we have the same opinion? That this will “help” Toyota find more money at the dealer level because, pffft, once that car is on the lift, a good service writer can find something wrong.
Oh that’s right – when Toyota did that genius. GM could come up with a car that cures cancer just by sitting in the driver’s seat, and the staff here would write a story complaining how it doesn’t cure AIDS.
Here is another angle that makes this arrogant. If most GM vehicles are warranties 3/36 or 4/50 bumper to bumper, and 5/100 power train, isn’t the reality that most things, “a good service advisor will find,” going to be covered under warranty, or documented in a TSB (or both). So really, when you read between the lines, isn’t this more of a vote of confidence in the end product?
I was coming to post this same thing. Glad to see I was the only one who spotted the difference in reporting of the 2 programs.
Agreed, I didn’t quite understand the reporting here either. It was exactly the type of thing TTAC would call out if another site did it.
That said, some of these programs are to instill habits in people. Have you noticed that there’s all this crap that we don’t actually need and that isn’t much of an improvement over pre-existing products, but advertisers convince us that we need to use on a regular basis? A good example is the after-shower soap scum spray that the ad wants you to spray daily instead of cleaning soap scum on a normal interval.
GM and Toyota are both trying to increase sales by throwing in something that costs them very little (for all you know, they are simultaneously cutting back on dealer incentives, so the net cost to them is the same), but they are also trying to create habits.
Free maintenance should help make sure the “sludging” issue never rears its ugly head again. Or not. IDK. Some people are too “busy” to have free work done :/
I love how when maintenance is “free and scheduled” the intervals and what is done changes.
Oil changes are no longer 3-5k miles but 7.5-10k.
Tire rotations aren’t every 5k, but 10k miles (trucks can’t get away with this and remain at 5).
Those cabin and air filter changes every six months? A year or more is fine now, or don’t bother checking it at all.
Then after your 2-3 year or 25-36k miles of free service there is a 500-700 dollar mandatory service interval that is JUST AFTER the free crap expires.
…how odd.
::Those cabin and air filter changes every six months? A year or more is fine now, or don’t bother checking it at all.::
Don’t remember having any car that had cabin or air filter changes every 6 months. What car was this? I’ve had more than one car that had higher intervals — off the top of my head: one car said 15K/12 months for cabin filter, and 30K/24 months for air filter; other said 20K for cabin filter and maybe 60K for air filter.
::Oil changes are no longer 3-5k miles but 7.5-10k.::
The 3K intervals were always for revenue-raising purposes, but some people still follow it like gospel. 5K-6K is probably acceptable for dino, and you can certainly go longer on synthetic (which more cars should be using these days). You can do an oil analysis for cheap if you’re concerned.
::Tire rotations aren’t every 5k, but 10k miles::
Better tire quality than back in the day is one reason — rotation doesn’t give you as much benefit as it used to. You could probably do 10K on many cars without much issue these days.
Also, make sure you don’t confuse what the service advisor tells you is the scheduled maintenance and what the book says is scheduled maintenance. The service advisor (who is a salesman) will try to sell you their “premium” 30K service that does a lot of unnecessary things.
But I do agree that there is usually a more expensive service interval after the free period usually. Not sure if it’s $500-700 always, but it’s usually more than what one of the free ones would have cost.
…Better tire quality than back in the day is one reason — rotation doesn’t give you as much benefit as it used to. You could probably do 10K on many cars without much issue these days…
Agreed. The exception to that is super low profile performance tires and knobby big fat chunky SUV/truck tires. Super low profile tires will suffer from uneven wear if the camber is off just a tad, or with minimal pressure variation. Big knobby chunky SUV/truck tires still tend to start to cup if ignored.
Rotation at oil change at a wider service interval is fine on most vehicles – the outliers like high-performance cars with 30 to 45 series tires and monster mudder tires need more frequent rotations. But the average Camcord – rotation at 5K is just for making $$$
“But the average Camcord – rotation at 5K is just for making $$$”
Also, there’s little reason to pay too much for tire rotation. There are places like Discount Tire and Costco that do it for free if you buy their tires. Most places will rip you off, even if they were going to take off the tires anyway for the other service they were doing.
rotation on any average camcord makes no sense. if the fronts wear out, replace the rears and send the REARS up front. you want the grippiest tires on the rear in a FWD… to make sure you keep that sweet understeer
Except for the fact that you’ll spend a good bit of time with nearly-worn front tires and nearly-new rear tires. That’s not exactly the road to good traction, nor mitigating that understeer. You rotate tires regularly to keep the tire wear even. Given that it takes less than 5 minutes to do with the car on a lift, there’s no reason not to. For cars that live where you put on winter tires for part of the year, it’s a complete non-issue. Just mark the tires before taking them off, and then put them on the other end the following season.
Okay, now I REALLY don’t want to buy any of your cars. Or be in traffic with you.
Having a huge grip disparity front to back isn’t great either, and your front tires still need to steer well.
When i checked my car (06 scion xa) recently the damn thing didnt even HAVE a cabin filter installed. WTF?
Never had a dealer service, ever.
Forums are unclear. Supposedly some cars never had one installed at the factory in Japan. Id personally guess the dealership in cerritos ca took it out when they took out the “karr” alarm. probably removed the scotchguard and armor plating i wouldnt pay for either.
well, its not dusty inside any more.
A sampling of new cars I have purchased:
US:
Chevrolet x3, Ford x2, Isuzu x1, Mitsubishi x3, Volvo x1, Suzuki x1, Chrysler x1.
PI:
Mitsubishi x1, Ford x1
NZ:
Nissan x1, Honda x1
India:
Mahindra x1
Of all these marques in different places, I have never run into cheating or over-selling by a service department. All have been professional and showed me respect as I did them.
Now there was a little frustration…but that was due to difficult problems to repair, eg: The Ford In Las Vegas because of a bad hesitation from a stop light and the like. A snapped transmission cable on the Suzuki. Other than that, no problems. Really. In Honolulu the Volvo dealer even told me where to go buy wiper blades for far less than their price so it would pass inspection.
Buy a lottery ticket!
This is being done because we’re seeing more and more leasing, since that is the ONLY way many folks can afford a new vehicle nowadays, and without proper basic maintenance, lease returns become a real problem when you check the oil and it looks like black molasses, especially now with all these turbos. Ford should wise up and do the same!
Why? On a 36 month lease a Ford customer will pay a maximum of $120 for scheduled maintenance. That’s nothing.
Sadly, for many (not all), that $120 is the end of the freakin’ world.
This is why BMW started the practice. Too many lease cars came back without any service at all.
What’s the lease rate for mainstream auto brands like Chevrolet? I doubt it’s that high. According to the article linked below, cars from premium brands are leased at more than twice the rate of volume branded cars.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130218/RETAIL07/302189932#axzz2VVWK7XpI
Anyone who can afford to lease a new car can afford to buy a new car. I wouldn’t be surprised if lots of people lease so they can get more expensive cars for an out the door price similar to less expensive cars. These people might not be swayed by having equity by buying cars (assuming they don’t go upside down on their loans) vs. having no equity by leasing cars. For these people, vanity beats financial prudence.
As for maintaining leased cars, lease contracts cover maintenance issues. People who don’t abide by maintenance provisions in lease contracts can get hit with penalties.
Yep, and a smart move. A manufacturer, especially one heavily into leasing gets a steady supply of maintained cars to trade.
Me? I’d make the customer fill out a small but carefully constructed questionnaire as the price of the free or cheap maintenance. A good industrial psychologist with a dozen well-crafted questions could probably figure out what kind of car you will want to buy in a couple of years better than you could. At the right moment in the life of your car, the computer in the service area would ding the computer in the sales department and a likely new car would be brought around for a casual test drive while you waited….
Here’s GM dealer service:
The guy I work for has a 2011 GMC truck, and a headlamp burned out. He bought a bulb for $20, and couldn’t figure out how to get his hand in behind the lens assembly to put it in. He took the truck to the GM dealer, and they installed the bulb for $100 labor. I guess it involved taking off the grille and fender liner.
When the bulb on the other headlamp goes, he’ll go back again for another $100 worth of GM service.
I wouldn’t do this with other repairs because they just don’t have the expertise, but he should just go to Vatozone and have those guys do it with those prices. The typical Vatozone guy has probably dealt with more GM truck headlights than a typical tech at GM service, especially considering how much better headlights are now than they were with those sealed beam ones back in the day.
It is indeed annoying how difficult it is to replace a headlight on certain vehicles, but I think part of it is due to hooligans stealing HIDs when they first came out (e.g. steal Acura HIDs that also fit Hondas).