The consensus regarding the 2015 Lincoln Navigator seemed to be unanimously negative. I know this because Doug DeMuro wrote an editorial saying he believed in Lincoln, until he saw the new Navigator, and everyone agreed. Which is what they seem to do. As long as he writes in that suspiciously self-deprecating manner. And broken up sentences, just like this.
Personally, I think it looks great, especially the black example shown above. You can imagine Chris Partlow from The Wire driving it. The last Navigator I drove had the 5.4L V8 engine and returned an rather profligate 10 mpg. The 3.5L Ecoboost may not be that much better on gas, but I do love the twin-turbo rush of boost that you get when you step on the throttle.
Photos courtesy AutoGuide.com
No matter how much I try to get it out my head, I see Lorax’s moustache every time I see the new Lincoln grille…
http://www.google.com/search?q=lorax&safe=off&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=T8jzUpj7KKP_ywOJrYHgAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1492&bih=1023
I’m going to be in the market for a big a$$ SUV next year and this is going to be on my list. I figure it will bomb, sales will be next to nil, and I can swoop in and pick one up at the end of the year for the same price as base Suburban.
We’ll be trading off our 2012 Grand Cherokee for a 2015-something but this Navigator is not it. Prefer a slow-turning, stump-pulling V8. But a 2015 Sequoia 5.7, if they still make them for that MY, may just be the way to go.
If not, Armada 5.6 may be the SUV of last resort for us, for what we want to pay.
If you want stump-pulling and slow-turning, you’ll get more of that from an EcoBoost V6 than any of the DOHC V8s currently in the truck market.
dal20402, there’s nothing slow-turning about an EB V6 since the boost is driven by a higher RPM. Higher RPM = greater boost = greater torque.
I’ll take the slow-turning grunt of my 2011 Tundra 5.7 over any of the V8s of that class on the market. That VVT really works and I get low-end torque pulling a fully loaded utility trailer from a dead stop, right from idle.
The Tundra 5.7 is a better workhorse than any of the trucks I have owned over the decades. And that’s NO BULL!
@highdesertcat – you are completely wrong on that assumption. I spent 9 days driving an F150 Supercrew XLT 6.5 box 4×4 with 3.5 Ecoboost and 3.73 gears.
It is a low rpm torque monster. It behaves more like a long stroke motor or diesel than a high strung high revving V6.
I found that revving it high was counterproductive. Under 1,600 rpm it felt like a stronger version of my 5.4 but above that it pulls hard. I never had to rev it to get any acceleration out of it. Mashing the pedal to the floor on long steep grades was a waste of time. Mid to 3/4 throttle was all I ever needed to get from 40 mph to 70 without any strain. Same thing on the highway. It pulled to the speed limiter without any strain.
Lou_BC, I have been working on a couple of our homes in the mountains around Cloudcroft, NM, and one of my hired hands has a 2013 SuperCrew EB he uses to haul his trailer and construction equipment up US82 to the worksite.
Although he tows a lighter, smaller trailer than I do behind my Tundra, he can’t keep up with me going up the mountain in the twisties.
One day, all six of us piled into his F150 and went to eat down the mountain, and going downhill all was well. Going up hill with six fat old farts and an empty bed, and no trailer, that EB was still a dog.
But it really shines when you wind it up to over 4000 rpm, as he did to pass a semi going uphill, although in return you get a very thirsty beast when you do that. IMO, the EB V6 is not all that it is cracked up to be – just the means to lower Ford’s Fleet CAFE.
What people choose to buy is their business. I don’t think that my friend Sal will be buying another V6 truck at any time in the future, no matter how aspirated.
After this experience he has expressed an interest in stepping up to an F250 with a huge gas mill.
Maybe that’s the difference between people that actually use their trucks for what they were designed to do, and people who just want to have an economical commuter with a full-size truck body.
“After this experience he has expressed an interest in stepping up to an F250 with a huge gas mill.”
I’m a huge fan of the Ford 6.2L, but it requires more pedal than the Ecoboost to get hustling. Dyno tests bear this out as well. Still, it destroys the world from 3800 to 5200 on the tach.
If you want a strong low-RPM gasoline, naturally aspirated powerband, it’s pretty much GM-land.
ajla, my wife’s dad had a 1973 4×4 Suburban with the 454 and THM400. Now there was an earthshaking combination!
But most of my Traveling Elks brethren use the Banks TurboDiesel in the F-series to pull their trailers across America.
Were I to step up to a 3/4 ton, I doubt anything would be as awesome as my 1999 F250 V10 was. It was rude, crude and socially repulsive, but it had a power train that was unbeatable.
Lou BC is right. I own a 2015 Navigator and I can tell you these turbo V6 have nothing to do with high revs. It’s all about low rpm torque (460 ft lbs) which makes this 6000 lb truck feel light and quick like a humongous sports sedan. I test drove a new tahoe ltz with a v8 and what a dog. It’s the old V8 truck engines you have to Rev out to get them moving. I just ease into the accelerator and feel that strong boost like a quiet jet effortlessly pushing me up to 60 in no time without all the noise and drama of a v8.That’s luxury! I looked at the Durango too which is a very nice vehicle and that hemi makes the best sound of any but doesn’t really move out as fast or have near the luxury but you get what you pay for to some extent.My advice to all Navi haters is to actually drive a new 2015 setting aside your predisposed bias and then honestly tell me it’s not a huge improvement over the old one. My idea of luxury is quickness and comfort but I don’t want a sport rough riding truck. For that I’ll drive my old 911 on a rough road.At 49 give me the Navi cooled seats and awesome stereo. Attach my boat and hit the highway and it’s heaven on wheels. Nicest vehicle I’ve ever driven I didn’t know what I was missing with these luxury trucks. My 911 hardly gets driven anymore and this truck doesn’t feel slow and heavy like I always remembered trucks being. Looked at crossovers and except for the Durango they are mostly a slow and boring compromise.
Durango V8 with the Group IV Tow Package – best bang for buck BY FAR, and best bang for even a lot more bucks that many others cost.
It’s come so far that IT has evolved more than any other vehicle versus the last generation of itself that I can think of and have driven.
This. The Ecoboost is hit and miss in quality. Look at the Durango. Or the Expedition with the Coyote.
Hey ‘scro, I was wondering where you were.
I feel as if I don’t have much to contribute since I’ve left my previous job, so I lurk more often.
The problem with the Durango (and the Jeep version) is Chrysler really doesn’t want to sell them with the V8. It’s a $3000 option and you can’t tick it off without $6000 in other options. A world beater at $30,000 has a lot more competition at $40.
Compare to the Charger where the V8 RT is $3000 over the 8 speed SE and adds so much other equipment as to make the engine upgrade essentially free, the Ram where the V8 is $1200 and they’ll give it to you as a standalone in every trim.
You need to find the V8 Durango in stock on a dealer lot already, and that $3,000 price tag for the V8 can be whittled down – this is due to the fact that gas prices are still high, the V8 is much thirstier than the Pentastar V6 (which is proving to be a great motor especially with the new 8 speed), and the V6 can already tow 7400 lbs with the Group IV.
Tres, how’s the new job going? I owe you a black & tan, buddy.
We currently own a 2012 Grand Cherokee Overland Summit 4×4 with the V6 and the Durango is more of the same, but not as luxurious.
The Durango is probably just as good as the Grand Cherokee but I want to get back into a Toyota Full House consisting of our 2008 Highlander 4×4, 2011 Tundra 5.7 and, hopefully, a 2015 Sequoia 5.7 4×4.
Our first new Toyota product ever was that 2008 Highlander, and I am still impressed at how well it runs and how dependable it is. My 16-yo grand daughter drives it to school every day, 52 miles round trip.
The Grand Cherokee has served my wife well so far but with >50K on the odo, she’s now living on the extended warranty, and I don’t want to worry about having to shell out big bucks in case of a break down.
I’ve owned Chrysler products before and I know what to expect from them, that’s why I want to trade the GC this year for a 2015.
I’m too old now to fix crap myself. So I have resolved to trade for something new before the warranty runs out.
Toyota is still deriving undeserved credit from a time when it truly did make superior products.
I am familiar with the Highlander, and I am not the least bit impressed with it.
I’m glad you enjoy yours, but I’d put the new Durango up against the Highlander, component vs component, top to bottom, from drivetrain to suspension, chassis to transmission, and everything in between, and with very few exceptions, rate the Durango equal to or better than it.
This is not meant as an insult (truly not), but merely as an observation of mine based on many of your comments made about your Tundra in the past; you have a much higher regard for Toyota products than they objectively deserve, and I say this in part due to the fact that the Tundra is not anywhere near a class competitive truck, IMO.
Almost anything the Tundra can do, the F Series, Silverado/Sierra, or RAM can do better (in many cases by a wide margin).
Toyota made world class products at one time, and they were a “world beating” company. They have fallen extremely far from those days of dominance, and are they are a middling company, at best, today.
I shopped the Durango around Christmas, there wasn’t an R/T within 100 miles that wasn’t AWD and further loaded with another $2-3,000 in sunroof, captains chairs, etc. They turn fast enough that 5K off sticker is about all the room there is.
I later learned that the truck I had in mind (a Charger R/T only bigger, wagon, and lifted) actually exists, stickers for $34 and change, and is called the fleet Special Service. If a dealer around here will let me order one and apply the retail incentives to come in around $30 before taxes then I’m going to do it.
@DW:
I like it. I miss ‘building cars’ and working for a larger company, but I also know the baggage that came with it. Next time I head up to MI for business, I will ask Derek to shoot you an email with my email address so we can meet up. Maybe it will be worthy enough for a TTAC piece.
DeadWeightBornAgaint@gmail.com
No religious connotation there – it was a light troll of Bertel when he complained about my prior email address.
Deadweight and Tresmonos will be breaking bread. That is a TTAC piece.
Did you say Breaking Bad?
Aztek FTW
DW does not live in a very methy area of Michigan.
lol.
No, I haven’t noticed nor heard about many meth sheds near where I live, thankfully.
The Dutton Road “area” that runs along Rochester Hills & Oakland Township is much to my liking because of the many trees, hills, a ton of green space and large lots.
And it’s not insufferable in the foo-foo way that Birmingham or Huntington Woods are (though the property taxes are pretty stupid high).
It reminds me of the suburban parts of Seattle in the summer, when the trees are green.
Are we that foo-foo in Huntington Woods? I’d like to think at least Birmingham and Bloomfield are worse. Taxes are brutal though.
DeadWeight, I actually agree with you on all your observations – and also about Toyota having lost the quality edge it once had.
Our 2008 Japan-built Highlander is no match for any 2014 GC or Durango, but it was something in its day! But our 2012 GC is just as good as the 2008 Highlander has been, so far.
Also, my 2011 Tundra 5.7 lacks many of the improvements made by the Detroit 3 that were brought about by the 2007 Tundra which was innovative and far ahead of the domestics at that time.
But I drove domestics up to 2008 and switched to Toyota, albeit cautiously. I have not been disappointed by what Toyota gave me for my money. I cannot say the same about my experiences with the domestic brands over the past decades.
So for my money I’ll take Toyota’s lower quality over everything else, because I had great ownership experiences with Toyota. Call it loyalty. Call it trust that Toyota will always do the right thing, unlike what Detroit has done to its buyers over the past decades.
Frankly, I’m looking forward to buying a 2015 Sequoia 5.7, if they still make them at that time, and rounding out my other two Toyota vehicles for a Toyota full-house.
FWIW, if I ever have to step up to a 3/4-ton pickup truck to get the biggest gas engine, my #1 choice is the F250. Silverado and RAM need not apply.
I have often mentioned over the years that Toyota quality went out the door and down the toilet when Toyota started making them in America, using American suppliers. So we agree.
In spite of that, I’ll take a Toyota product over anything else. And I put my money where my mouth is.
@Highdesertcat – the EB 3.5 runs out of steam around 4200 rpm. Screaming it past 4,000 is a waste of time and does not provide any real benefit.
How high is your 5.7 revving?
As I pointed out, revving the EB 3.5 is counterproductive. Keeping it from shifting down and revving produces much more thrust than. I noticed that right off the bat.
You mention mountain – what elevation?
A turbocharged engine is not going to be as affected by elevation. Forced induction helps compensate for thinner air.
If ” he can’t keep up with me going up the mountain in the twisties.”
Is that necessarily a flaw of the truck?
I think that the IForce 5.7 is a great V8 but there is nothing wrong with the EB 3.5 and it is NOT a high revving high strung motor.
It is thirsty under load. I found that out for myself. But then again I do not know a single guy with a 5.7 Tundra that brags about mpg empty or loaded.
@HighDesertCat
The Australian Ford Falcon Turbo Barra engine was the basis of the Ecoboost. It gave 410hp and roughly 415lbs ft of torque at 1800 rpm a dead flat torque curve. Fuel useage on par with Ecoboost.
It was slightly detuned and was put in the 5000lb Territory SUV/CUV. The 2.7 Litre diesel engine that was used later in the Territory was VASTLY More economical. Like the Ecoboost the Barra it drank fuel under Load. Still tuners were getting 1200RWD Horsepower from the Barra engine.
2013 territory.
http://www.4wdonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2013-ford-territory.png
HDC I completely understand your loyalty to Toyota, as I haven’t paid for anything BUT Japanese cars since the early 90s with my own money, after being burned badly by domestic vehicles (especially GM ones during Roger Smith’s (a/k/a Shiva, Destroyer of Auto Companies) reign.
I did drive 2 vehicles that were German (a BMW and a ’06 VW Passat) and a domestic Cadillac Catera (in truth, that was a German Opel, too) since then, but those were either company cars or company rentals (long term).
The reason that I have changed my opinion of the domestics lately is three fold: 1) Although my car is a Mazda made in Japan, we acquired a larger domestic vehicle for household/toddler duty three years ago, and it has seen heavy use (21k miles per year) without a single problem, and looks and drives like new still, so that’s at least a huge improvement, 2) We are in the process of thinking of replacing it in the next year or so, and have driven MANY foreign and domestic candidates, and if anything, the new crop of domestic vehicles, on average, drive even better and are of better build quality and fit/finish (with a few exceptions) than their predecessors in contrast with their direct Japanese competitors (I think this is due to continuous improvements with the domestics & further regression with the Japanese makes, of which Toyota – we felt – probably took the biggest decline), 3) oiL honestly believed domestic vehicles are now being built to hold up better over the long term and service in a DIY way (again, there are some exceptions here, too) than at any time I can recall before.
I have really taken pains to crawl underneath vehicles that we’re comparing, and fold myself into their engine bays (to the degree this is possible with any of the ubiquitous tight engine compartments now jammed to the firewall), with an eye towards the solidity of the structure and the manner by which the engineers made things like oil filters or coolant drain plugs easy to access, and here again, the domestic makes have made huge relative strides.
As just one example of what I’m speaking of, the Chevy Cruze literally feels at least one class, and in some cases two classes above the direct Japanese competitors in terms of solidity and NVH refinement. Back seat space aside, the Cruze feels like a more solid car than a Camry or Altima, let alone Corolla or Sentra, in many ways.
There is a degree of irony in some of this, since some “domestic” vehicles often now have a much higher foreign made parts content than their “foreign”‘competitors – as well as being assembled in foreign plants in many cases, while the “imports” are assembled here.
Lou_BC, elevation where I live ~4800ft above sea level. Elevation where I worked on those houses, 9338ft.
I’ve had my Tundra 5.7 up to and including 5000rpm — I have tried to never spin any engine beyond its useful torque curve but play with the paddles instead to match gear to load and air density.
Obviously at sea level I have a great deal more torque at a lower rpm than at 9338ft where I need rpm (hp) to move the same load.
I’m not saying the a turbocharged or supercharged engine is a bad thing for those who want it. Remember that my background goes back to my dad’s fully supercharged 426 Hemi dragsters of the ’50s and 60s, run on NitroMethane.
This whole trend in downsizing from husky V8s to these nervous-nellie hypercharged engines is because the manufacturers need to improve their fleet CAFE.
But I still prefer eight cylinders with a power stroke every 45-degrees over any 6 with a power stroke every 60 degrees, and certainly any 4 that bangs every 90 degrees, no matter how souped up, blown or compressed the little engines that could are.
How about a fully-blown Cosworth 4-banger in that F150, eh? That little monster cranks out 880hp with 8 atmospheres of pressure.
As far as mpg is concerned, it’s not an issue with me. During a recent trip to Nevada and California I paid nearly $6/gal along US395 and Zephyr Cove (lake Tahoe), NV.
And if someone ever tells you that the Pentastar normally aspirated V6 has a range of more that 525 miles per tankful, don’t believe it!
I got ~15.6 mpg cruising on I-80 around the Great Salt Lake with speeds ranging from 85mph-105mph, depending on the density of the traffic.
DeadWeight, there was time when I was loyal to the domestic brands. Drove them exclusively for more than four decades.
I appreciate your thoughts, insights, beliefs and where you are coming from and I also believe that today’s domestics are the best they have ever produced. In context, they had no place to go but up.
And I have been pleasantly surprised by how good my wife’s 2012 Grand Cherokee has been; but I still can’t get beyond my previous experiences with Chrysler crap and how much they cost me to keep running at a time when I was doing all the labor.
We’re into the final phase of our lives now so my wife and I want to own and drive cars we don’t have to worry about. Yeah, I know, with Toyota making them over here it is also a crap shoot if we get a lemon or not. And plenty of people have!
But at least with Toyota products, I have had better ownership experiences than with the domestic brands.
Since I switched in 2008, I am more at ease owning a better-engineered Toyota product even if the assembly execution and American supply train has put a serious dent in Toyota quality. No need to revisit CTS gas pedals and rusting frames here.
The only American brand I may possibly buy would be an F250 if Tundra gives up its 5.7 in order to meet CAFE standards. (Gas mileage is bad on the 5.7, but not as bad as it was on my Silverado or F150 of yesteryear.)
And I believe that may happen as early as in MY 2016, so I may have to trade my 2011 DoubleCab for a 2015 CrewMax 5.7. For me it’s crunch time, aka sh!t or get off the pot.
RobertRyan, thanks for the info. I didn’t know that.
Or you can get a 2-year old one for the price of a base Corolla.
5 years from now these will be clogging up the parking lot of your local food stamp/gov assistance office, with saggy rear ends because of the failed air springs.
Corey-
Try two Corollas. 2012 Navigators are going are going for over $40K easy.
Dernit!
If I could have purchased a 2012 Navi with under 30K miles for new Corolla money, I would have.
I’m not shelling out $65K for a new one though.
I do too. It’s a clean, mostly cohesive design that is more conservative than Escalade and doesn’t have any particular features that would scream “ugly.” It will probably do well in the livery market in the same way the Escalade does. And it’s an option for people that don’t want to say “I’m a rapper/professional athlete” with their SUV du jour.
+1. The ‘Slade is most popular among certain elements of society that discerning adults should distance themselves from as much as possible.
Do “discerning” adults drive a large, chromed American SUV though?
That is why you buy a Yukon Denali. Instead of this archaic piece of junk with a new front clip that I actually agree is an improvement.
In fact I think this is the best looking 2003 Navigator front clip yet.
+1
They couldn’t update the steering-wheel from the ‘aughts!
I have the same view of the caddy in the mid 2000’s and used ones are still driven by the more interesting elements of society. But oddly here in Connecticut at least the current escalade seems very popular in upscale neighbor hoods again parked alongside 5 series and audis.
I know this has a different from grille and back lights, but to me overall it looks exactly the same as the previous generation. Nothing really new about it.
It’s got the same body as the 1998 Navigator, with different interior, different front clip, and different tailgate. Yes, it has been upgraded in 2003 and 2007, but the body is 18 model years old now.
No V8 – no deal.
Not everyone wants a big, thirsty V8 in their SUV. Most buyers really don’t even care what the engine is. They just want it to be expensive and flashy. Thus why most X5s, Q7s and ML-Classes I see aren’t the V8 ones. Most GL-Classes I see are the smaller V8 or the diesel. So this isn’t a bad idea actually, if people can save money on fuel, then they’ll be happier with it. Thus why full size pick ups are now involved in a fuel economy war…because the V8 is so much more important than fuel economy to people :)
Even full size pick up trucks are changing in this manner, and it hasn’t been the kiss of death. As long as people aren’t buying these things for proper utility, which with a Navigator is very easy to believe, the V8 doesn’t really make sense. Except for people who are so obsessed with the image of these things, which you’ve always seemed to be. You might want to modernize your increasingly dated stances on power train options.
YEAH – so instead, I’ll buy a massive SUV and hope that some turbochargers can make a V6 feel like the real thing – especially when I load my family into it – like my uncle does with his family in their 09′ Navigator.
I can’t wait till this trucks sales are ABYSMAL and all the dummies who routed for this V6 bullsht are staring at Cadillac’s numbers aping this piece of junk. I bet the DURANGO V8 does better. Betcha a $1.
The turbo 6 in my Q7 has more power than the V8 in my old Tahoe had. However, in something this big and Body on Frame, I have to agree, a V8 is the way to go.
bigtruckseriesreview @ Youtube
As I pointed out to Highdesertcat, the EB 3.5 is an impressive engine.
One needs to put aside one’s misconceptions and try one.
The sad thing: I’d bet that if Lincoln had announced a DIESEL engine with the exact same output, no one would be disappointed.
A diesel is TRUSTED to do this job.
Great. A car marketed as a luxury people hauler that isn’t that luxurious and has far less interior room than you’d think given its size.
These actually can legitimately seat adults in all 3 rows. Something most SUVs and CUVs can’t say.
The Navigator has always been a guilty pleasure for me. I preferred the styling cues of the outgoing model (just seemed more cohesive), but the interior and powertrains seem to be significantly improved here. Interested to see how this sells v. its predecessor.
I preferred the 02-06. Most cohesion.
Agreed.
And I was also a fan of the Aviator, which had all the Navigator’s styling cues – I “borrowed” one for about two months a few years back (long story) and it was a DAMN nice vehicle, assuming your Shell card had a high credit limit.
The Aviator unfortunately made Steve Lang’s list of the 10 worst used cars to buy.
Which makes me glad I “borrowed” it for two months. :)
The launch was rushed and the program was a mess. Top it off, it was built at St. Louis Assy Plant towards the end of it’s life. Build quality was garbage, at best. That plant was miserable. Nobody laments it’s closing in the company. The only regrets are how some of it’s high seniority rank and file migrated to DTP.
Edit: I like the Aviator – it just was saddled with horrid quality.
Tres’ greatest attribute is that rare combination of being a person who has actual in-the-trenches-experience working in the world of manufacturing automotive components while being very objective.
I like to think I have an eye for cars, but without a frame of reference, I always mistook Aviators for Navigators until I got close enough to read the badging.
The front lights always did it for me, they were different enough to show from a distance.
This design could have come out in 2005. After the MKX I was really hoping for something bold.
Derek, here’s your break you were complaining that you can’t get. I like the new Navigator TOO. So there. :)
Finally a vehicle large enough and imposing enough to wear the Lincoln design language with pride. In fact it makes me want a large Lincoln RWD sedan now more than ever, it would just need to be very SQUARE in its lines for things to work. It can’t be swoopy like the MKS.
I think the 3.5V6 turbo is just fine. Is there a “trifecta” tune for it?
40mpg uphill with AC on in the snow trifecta!
Write “the phrase that pays” so I can get my Aventador cash out!
The 2015 Navigator is without a doubt unequivocally a “GAME-CHANGER”
Do you expect this to be a livery market game changer, or will livery drivers continue to shift to the even more efficient MKT Town Car 2.0T.
Hey I’m just trying to help Derek “make it rain.” Bunny has to pay for her CLA lease somehow.
Agreed, you just slightly beat me to the game changer wording.
I can see the Derek and (whatever a good Ontario stripper name is) conversation.
“You know, I have to tell you, the CLA is not a ‘real’ car”
“That’s ok, these are not real either”
Wow, a new Oldsmobile Bravada! But what is it doing with Ford products?
It doesn’t look anything like ANY of the Bravadas! How dare you!
But it has a classic Oldsmobile split grille, straight off an early 70s Cutlass, 88, or 98!
:(
Actually there is some Bravada in that grille and we all know how well that worked out for Oldsmobile
Here’s a Bravada for comparison:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/1998-01_Oldsmobile_Bravada.jpg
I actually like the new mug as well. What I don’t like is that the rest of the rig appears pretty much unchanged, both inside and out.
I think it needs a big Lincoln emblem on the C-pillar, like they’re doing on the Enclave now. And that’s a nice graphite color – Lincoln has some good colors!
But the glowing uni-brow across the back doesn’t mesh style-wise with the grille stuff going on at the front. And I get images in my head in a couple years of following behind this beheamoth, and when the small blonde driving it hits the brakes, 5 to 7 of those LED’s don’t light up. Like some DTS/STS’s might do.
I like full-width taillights and how Lincoln is trying to make that a design motif of theirs, but unfortunately for them, Dodge beat them to it and did it better with the Charger, Dart, and now Durango. I think the Navigator is too slab-sided to pull it off with any kind of panache.
Ahem. The MkT had the bar lights way before Dodge cracked open their history books. The first gen MkX kind of has full width lights…
I am one of those few people who like the MkT’s styling.
Defend the MkT!
It already comes with the correct rear end for a hearse:
http://www.hearse.com/hearseworks/showroom/new/lincoln/index.php
Both Dodge and Lincoln have a tradition of full width tail lights going back to the ’60s Neither can really lay claim to being first
Reminds me a lot of the 1st-Gen Explorer, with it’s pickup-with-a-cap styling. I thought SUV’s had progressed from looking exactly like warmed-over pickups.
That costs money, and Lincoln don’t got none.
The vehicle you’re thinking of might not be the first-gen Explorer, but the second-gen Expedition. And why might you be thinking that? Because this car IS the second-gen, circa-2003 Expedition, with warmed over front and rear end styling, and a fancy engine.
And a $70,000 pricetag.
Lincoln fails on this one.
I only we could go back to SUVs being warmed-over pickups with a removable shell and back seat.
Ok, Here’s what would work for ME, if Lincoln INSISTS on the the split wing grille. Wrap it up and over into the hood, with vertical chrome bars, intead of horizontal. Sort of a modern update of the old Chryler Imperial/New Yorker Brougham. A Lincoln needs to look more stately than it’s Ford counterparts. The current design iteration just doesn’t say “luxury” to me. That said, this new Navigator grille design is an improvement over the old one. But’s per another poster, it looks too much like an Olds Bravada.
SACRILEGE! Chris Partlow would only ever drive a Pathfinder Armada!
I agree though, it doesn’t look half bad in black, and the facelift is a definite improvement over the 2013, which was more overwrought.
Don’t get me wrong – I looks nice enough, so I don’t DISLIKE it, but I’m DISAPPOINTED that Lincoln warmed over a circa-2003 design, and then had the balls to charge $70 grand for it with a straight face.
Meanwhile, this car’s arch-rival, the Escalade, is an all-new, clean sheet design this year. In fact, the new Escalade is the SECOND clean-sheet redesign Cadillac has done for that model since the Navigator’s last such redesign, which was introduced in 2003.
You don’t have to be Lee Iacocca to figure out why the Escalade sells and the Navigator doesn’t anymore.
I was hopeful Lincoln’s fortunes were on the upswing after the new MKZ, but this is just more of the same. And that’s a shame, because this type of vehicle is a MASSIVE profit-maker, and Lincoln sure could use some of those profits to revitalize the rest of their line.
Oh well.
Thats the thing. It doesn’t look bad. It just looks like Lincoln doesn’t give a crap.
LOL Derek Kreindler the hipster contrarian. I’ll join the party in support of the Navigator, but then I’ve always loved cushy body on frame SUVs.
Pathetic doesn’t even begin to describe this pig. Lincoln didn’t even try, they just threw in the towel. The only thing they got right is they know their competition…….the Dodge Durango. They should be ashamed of now blatantly they copied the rear lighting of the Durango. But then, copying other designs that are already being used is a Ford hallmark as their designers are completely talent-less. All told though, the Durango is worlds better in just about every possible way and the new Escalade absolutely murders this pig.
Does a $65-70,000 Durango even EXIST?
Maybe with a pricey extended warranty, VIN etching and taxes included. The higest MRSP I can configure is $53,650.
“Does a $65-70,000 Durango even EXIST?”
Thanks for proving my point.
This Navigator is wayyyyyy overpriced (as are all Mercurys…I mean Lincolns). It is outclassed in every way by the Durango (which isn’t hard as the Durango is extremely nice and this Navigator is deplorable).
Whenever I read your posts, the internal voice in my head always reverts to Eeyore.
TTAC should do a vellum venom with you and a first generation Suburban to prove you do have nice things to say about automobiles.
Yeah, that makes no sense.
If you knew who Eeyore was it would
But is it a game changer?
All kidding aside, its a nice BOF SUV but I don’t see the $70K value. Starved of any meaningful R&D the Navigator is no match for the Escallade.
And it’s not that people disliked it – they were simply disappointed that something that was billed as “all new” was just a rehashed version of an existing slow selling product. People expected more from Ford which has recently been quite aggressive in the adoption of new technologies for their other products.
Derek, don’t worry about Doug DeMuro. Doug spends half of his time worshiping Matt Farrah and the other half checking his naval for bacon crumbs. Matt hangs out at Galpin Ford. Galpin is in “the valley” – ’nuff said. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions… misguided as they are.
Daaaaamn son! Someone get me some sunlight cuz someone is throwin’ SHADE!
this is by far the best interpretation of the Lincoln grille yet, and if they actually bother to market it this time, they might increase sales nicely. Now if they can only throw out a proper gangster sedan or two, they’ll have my full attention…
Like most redesigned vehicles, the interior is a lot better than the exterior. That grill is giant.
I know he left y’all, but this anti-Doug DeMuro thing is really annoying. I still read his stuff all the time and he was the reason I made a commenting account in the first place.
Offer still stands, bruh.
I’ll get you his John Hancock if you want it.
“I know he left y’all, but this anti-Doug DeMuro thing is really annoying.”
This vitriol came out of nowhere for me – did I miss something? I would put DeMuro up there in my TTAC pantheon along with Farago, Shoemaker, vintage Baruth, and MacAleer (where IS that guy these days?), but Derek must feel otherwise.
This Navigator looks like a warmed over turd with crappy aftermarket wheels, on the other hand. That entire center stack looks like a default Ford parts-bin special. Mullaly must not give a $hit about Mercury or feels like his efforts are better used elsewhere. I can’t remember the last time I saw one of these things in the wild, and it looks like this trend will continue for the foreseeable future. On a positive note, the metallic flake in that paint looks really nice where the lighting picks it up.
Ok, so it’s not a game-changer. At least they got rid of the nasty tacked on chrome pieces. I think Ford, ahem The Lincoln Motor Company, is seeking some niche markets. Four guys, four sets of gold clubs, and beer cooler? Check. Have a concealed weapon, a permit to carry concealed, go to the range, and have your shoes shined? Check. Enough luggage space for happy suburban couple and their children? Enough room for all the beach stuff and the women’s upscale clothing for a week at the beach? Check and check. A small niche or three; but do they need to sell that many?
You say that same load of junk about all big SUV’s. It’s not a market, it’s a little fantasy in your head. It’s not real.
So, when’s the Navigator/Expedition going to Aluminum?
Two years I’ve read. They have to get the F150 out first. Hence this tweaking of the Navigator to at least give it a shot when the new (and I think quite attractive and luxurious) Escalade comes out this year.
I like this better than the current Navigator, and it fixes two parts of the current model that I was not fond of (the nose and the instrument cluster). That being said, I like Lincoln’s current design language. I can see where this would do nothing for you if you already really, really hate the Lincoln nose. If I could find one of these in say 3 years with lowish miles for say $35K, I’d snap one up.
“So, when’s the Navigator/Expedition going to Aluminum?”
Too soon, just like the F-150
Looks hideous. What has happened to pleasing designs at Ford?
NAVIs and Escalades are symbols of American excess. Are they still incentivized by a substantial tax break for purchasers?
These vehicles enrage people around the world who recall Bush 43 hammering them to join him in Middle East wars. In their mind, why should they send their sons and daughters to the Middle East to fight and die so Americans could drive around in their monster vehicles enabled by gas prices a third what they pay?
I just can’t imagine owning one of these.
I don’t think the purchase tax break was extended. You have to lease one to write it off these days.
I agree with Doug, It’s ugly and they copied Dodge’s racetrack taillghts.
I dont know about where you guys live, the only time I ever see a Navigator in NYC, it’s black and has livery plates. If you own one in black, everyone will assume you’re a livery driver lol.
I like the styling of this Navigator, but that 02-06 was the absolute best looking Navigator. It looked a lot better than the Escalade until the Escalade had it’s 3rd Gen redesign.
Ford needs to give Lincoln its own unique identity. Lincoln has been a badge engineered product for too long. The look like any other Ford but with an ugly grill and weird tail lights.
Make Lincoln its own unique brand or kill it.
Why does this still have a name? Zephyr had a name and it became MkFusion, err MKZ. Why isn’t this MkN? MkEx? MkOld?
Stop giving them ideas.
Those Zephyrs and the MKZ have aged so poorly. I notice every time I see one.
The first gen grille looks especially dated. In contrast, when I see a Lincoln LS, they still look good.
That’s true, as long as they haven’t been hooptied by a ghetto owner. The ones still in original owner’s hands are nice.
The interiors were even given the Navigator treatment toward the end, maybe 04-06?
Oh and the LS was on that list of Steve Lang’s worst used cars ever.
Thats why I would buy a MKZ instead of a LS.
If it was the first gen MKZ or a loaded first gen Fusion, I think I’d have to pass and get something else. Lol.
Corey, the 2009 and on Fusion/MKZ is the one to have. The facelift was a good thing. My wife and I were looking at one for her work vehicle.
I think we are going to lease something for 24-36 months instead. Its narrowed down to a Fusion, Mazda6, or Accord. Using my wife’s criteria for purchasing a car is the exact opposite of an enthusiast purchase (It makes me want to write about it because its like a bizzaro buff book comparo). As much as the internet collectively wets itself over compact wagons with all wheel drive and diesel engines, Americans that buy cars could care less. I feel her decision will come down to options and equipement more than driving dynamics.
So whatever happened to NULLO? I always like how he weighed in on all things Ford….was he collateral damage to Bertel’s banhammer?
Thank you for liking it, Derek. I like it as well.
Was I disappointed that it was an update (however extensive) of a long-running generation of Expedition/Navigator? Sure. Could the dash have been more visually different? Sure, but the updates they did helped discernibly. And would I have liked to see dual exhaust (or at least dual mufflers) instead of just one sorta sticking out of one side? Yeah, it would have helped, in my estimation.
There is some dynamic sculpting (or, chiseling) going on in the front, and in combination with that paint, it allows for some fun light and dark interaction. The front grill and headlights are bold and do not apologize for it, which is good as it looks solid. Cool grill slat and headlight detailing as well.
I think what really completes the aesthetic is the wheels–sure, they are big (and I like that especially with the lower profile tires that will never see dirt), but the rims are a very nice looking design that present a lot of strong “face” with enough dish to work with the body design. And they are set out nicely and give this rig a great stance. It looks strong.
Back when this and the Escalade began and GM continued to add horsepower to their chariot, I always thought Ford/Lincoln did a disservice to the Navigator by only having a moderately powerful 5.4L in it. I thought they should have just thrown the hammer down and put the 6.8L V10 in it and just told Cadillac to deal with it; their move now. The 5.4L is a solid motor, as was the V10 (my family has experience with both), but in the mine-is-bigger-than-yours horsepower contest that it was in, the 5.4L would never be enough as Ford spec’d it.
Now with that “war” seemingly cooled down as the Escalade has just dominated sales, it seems like there’s more room for Lincoln to move around in regards to their engine choices. Sure the 3.5 EcoBoost isn’t a V8, but it’s proven, as far as I can tell, to be a good motor. And it allows Lincoln to tune the cabin for less noise intrusion as the “V8 POWERRRR” statement (usually with an exhaust note) doesn’t need to be made. Now it can merely “waft” to speed with sufficient motivation and if driven smartly, get a few ticks better in the MPG department.