Today was a glorious day: despite the draconian speeding laws enacted by the Commonwealth of Virginia, as well as the unfortunate wet weather, we were able to experience the full gamut of the 2015 Dodge Charger offerings, including the Hellcat version.
Driving impressions for the 2015s are embargoed until Wednesday, October 29th, but you, the B&B get to choose what you want to read first: the Hellcat standalone review, or a shootout between the Charger SXT V6 and Chevrolet Impala 2LT and the Charger SRT 392 and the Chevrolet SS; the V6 and V8 shootouts will get their own articles.
The Charger R/T Hemi was on hand, but without a competitive car to drive, we skipped it. Same with the basic Charger V6. In all likelihood, we’ll be able to rent both of those cars at a later date or get them out of the local press fleet. Over to you, B&B.
At what point will the “murdered out” look be over?
Anyhoo, I would vote for the comparo with the SS, but I suspect the B&B want all the Hellcat they can get.
I would say that Hellcat is basically automotive Cowbell, but I think Cowbell is over too by now.
Agreed on all points. All that black on black on black is getting old.
The Hellcat is sort of a Road & Track specialty; I prefer to read about more attainable cars.
Ditto, not really a fan of monochromatic cars.
Pffft. Black is always in. ;)
Murdered out and monochromatic cars are very consistent with my general sense of aesthetics anyway, which favors zen minimalist interior design and a similar style and color palette for clothing (reds, blues, and tans/browns are the only non-greyscale colors I tend to wear).
Oh, and I vote Charger SRT vs Chevy SS.
Another vote for SRT vs. SS here.
Add me to this list.
That murdered out look is very tired and unimaginative and even worse is the tramp stamp of the automotive world: red or yellow painted brake calipers.
I’d have the Charger, even a plain ol’ base model over the SS. Its a more distinctive and interesting design. I can’t really explain it but to me the SS looks both bland and ugly at the same time. Plain in the middle and ugly on the ends yet boring overall.
Was this Hellcat Charger rolling down Pennsylvania Ave in Washington DC yesterday?
I was standing at an intersection when I saw a funny looking Charger, with what I thought had to be an aftermarket hood. When I saw the front, I knew it had to be the new/refreshed Charger… and that hood scoop could only mean Hellcat. I didn’t think one of those could be on the road so soon, but I saw the badge on the front fender as well.
It’s pretty fantastic looking car. I was shocked to see one on the road so soon.
I want the 392/SS comparison. Although I think I already know what it will say: the 392 is slightly faster and cushier, while the SS handles better and is more refined.
I find the 392 a far more interesting car than the Hellcat. It’s more than fast enough for any situation you ever encounter on the street. If I wanted to spend more, I’d want to spend it on more luxury and refinement rather than more speed.
Agreed, especially since there won’t be any meaningful performance numbers from the Hellcat in the wet. Driving impressions should be entertaining however!
Hellcat first. Then the Hemi R/T. Then the SXT V-6. Follow the pecking order.
We didn’t do a Hemi R/T since there was no comparison.
Sorry to hear that. I’d like to hear your opinion on how well the 8 speed works with the 5.7.
From someone who has a car with the combo, it’s awesome. Completely remedies the dead spots of the old 5 speed versions. Instant power in the right gear when you want it. Higher fuel economy and lower cruising NVH are nice too.
Danio,
When is your AMA?
Not likely. There are still dozens of Volvo wagons the B&B would rather hear about first.
Zing. :)
Had the old girl at the dyno today. Put down an honest 275 HP to the wheels. Hoping for 300 after a custom tune and upgraded intercooler.
Mr. Danio I have the old 5 speed Auto. What is your city and highway mileage? Also, I was wondering what the torque rating is on the 8 speed vs the 5. I was worried the 5.7 would over power the 8 speed and damage it.
“Mr. Danio I have the old 5 speed Auto. What is your city and highway mileage? Also, I was wondering what the torque rating is on the 8 speed vs the 5. I was worried the 5.7 would over power the 8 speed and damage it.”
I haven’t had the car long enough to make any serious long term observations on fuel economy, but if the instant fuel economy readouts that I’ve been able to steadily maintain are any indication, expect 16-17 mpg around town and ~27-28 mpg at a steady 70 mph. On country and secondary roads at a steady -50mph, it can maintain over 30 mpg under those conditions. So far I’ve averaged 19.6 mpg with a ~60/40 city/hwy mix.
The 8HP70 version of the 8 speed trans behind the V8 cars is beefed up for extra torque capacity over the one in the 6 cylinder cars. They’re rated for 516 lb-ft of torque, which is actually a bit more than the NAG1 5 speed they replaced. The same basic trans is used in the Durango, Grand Cherokee, Ram pickups, BMW 7 series, Maserati Quattroporte etc. so actual torque capacity shouldn’t be an issue.
The biggest noticeable advantage over the old 5 speed is the new trans does a much better job of keeping the engine in it’s happy places, constantly pulling through the fattest spot in the power curve under hard throttle, where the 5 speed would make the engine pull through mroe dead rev band down low. Under light throttle, it drops to a loafy low RPM usually well under 1500rpm when you don’t want the power.
That’s what I want to hear. I have the 5.7/5-spd in my R/T and the dead spots are the worst part. But you know that.
I think I am going to jump to the SRT when they are finally released. B5 Blue with Laguna leather (if that combo is available).
Thanks danio3834,
I picked up an ’14 Charger because the ’15 didn’t do it for me. Now I’m thinking ’15 Challenger R/T in B5 blue with a shaker hood. The Scat Pack option will be very hard to resist. My wife may kill me if I trade the Charger in so soon.
B5 blue is a great color. That’s the color I really wanted instead of the much darker Jazz blue mine came in. My wife feared the B5 would attract more attention and she doesn’t like being hounded by endless enthusiast gentlement who, uhm, want to talk to her about the car. So I made that compromise for her as she does drive the car regularly.
“…a shootout between the Charger SXT V6 and Chevrolet Impala 2LT and the Charger SRT 392 and the Chevrolet SS the V6 and V8 shootouts will get their own articles.”
One of these things is not like the others…
That was my first thought haha, I had to re-read.
Awww our speed limits are THAT bad are they? :(
VA state police usually let you slide at anything less than 10 over on the interstate. Unless traffic is so light that you get cherry picked. Once you’re off the interstate, more than 5 over is a gamble.
I’d like to see the SS reviewed. 6MT of course. Out of them all, it’s the only one I’d actually buy if I could.
20 mph over the speed limit, or anything over 80, is reckless driving in Virginia, and is a criminal offense. That’s not normal anymore, or suitable for modern cars.
Hmmm, now I’m questioning my own memory. I thought they upped the speed limit on 64 between Williamsburg and Richmond to 75. I can’t imagine someone going in front of the judge for reckless doing 81 in a 75. But then again, I’ve seen stranger things.
The highest speed limit here in the Commonwealth is 70mph. When it was first raised above 65 there was a short stretch on I-85 between South Hill and the NC border where it was 75, but once the higher limit rolled statewide everything went to 70. And 81 in a 70 is reckless. Over 90 will virtually guarantee jail time.
A former co-worker got nabbed for 81 in a 70 and he argued with the cop because he swore he had his cruise set to 77. The cop did him a favor and wrote the ticket for 77, which isn’t reckless. He leaned on it to pass a guy and had to be going faster or he wouldn’t have even been stopped at 77.
I’m pretty sure no 2015 SSes have washed onto our shores yet.
I’m actually getting tired of hearing about the Hellcat. Do the comparos but I wish that Taurus and Taurus SHO were included to make it an “All-American” shootout.
How about a Hellcat vs. Tesla P85D?
The Hellcat is already starting at an advantage. P85D sounds like a printer.
>> The Hellcat is already starting at an advantage
What advantage? It’s slower than the Tesla. If you’re going by price, the Hellcat is much cheaper.
He meant the name, mcs.
“What advantage? It’s slower than the Tesla.”
Slower in what respect? Slower to refuel?
“…sounds like a printer” – Comment of the day! (see what I miss when I log off at night?)
Cars should have names. But it is indicative of the mindset of its creators, I guess. Maybe numbers and names, a la millitary? F4 Phantom…M1 Abrams, etc.?
P85D Shocker?
I dunno, I can’t care about any of them. Big, rorty Grandpa cars, yawn. I’d rather read about that supercharged Mark II.
This is BTS bait…where is he?…in the meantime: HELLCAT!
“the draconian speeding laws”
Ahh.. poor iddo angwy adowescents.
God, could I get behind a political party that pushed a truly draconian speeding policy!
dra·co·ni·an
drəˈkōnēən
adjective
(of laws or their application) excessively harsh and severe.
hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Are you sure Pete’s exaggerating?
I dunno about that, but the “hyperbole” was meant as a reminder to everyone and anyone that, yes, it’s within reason for some writers to use hyperbole to get a point across. The speed laws may or may not be draconian, depending on your point of view, so calling them such can count as hyperbole.
Pete, just for you we’re going to lower the speed limit to 21 and raise the drinking age to 55. And all signaled intersections will be retrofitted with 1/2 second yellow lights. All cars under 54.5 mpg will pay gas guzzler taxes. Welcome to paradise!
These so-called “full sized” cars seem so mid-sized to me.
Much like Lincoln’s “SUV” minivans, they fail to impress.
OK, give me a Town Car or at least a Crown Vic.
Panther love in effect!
“These so-called “full sized” cars seem so mid-sized to me”
I agree, fullsize means three across front bench to me.
A Dodge Charger is very, very full-size. 2015 specs aren’t available yet (except for Hellcat weight which we know to be right around 4500 pounds) but 2014 specs should do.
Length: 200.3 in
Width: 74.2 in
Interior volume: 122.6 cu.ft.
Weight: From 3995 lbs. (SXT 3.6/8A) to 4365 lbs. (SRT 392)
Those are not remotely midsize numbers. They’re all smaller than the Crown Vic, but interior volume is almost identical.
It’s full size for the era. If you’re super-annuated, you could remember when those were midsize specs. Full size cars of the late ’60s were 220 inches long, 79 inches wide and weighed just under 5,000 lbs. My midsize ’68 Montego was 205 inches long, 74 inches wide and weighed 3,300 lbs.
The only area where the Charger approaches the full size of old is with the 120 inch wheelbase. Late ’60s Impalas and Ford LTDs were 119 inches, but the Continentals and DeVilles were 126-129 inches. You can’t drive those monsters anymore – they’ve downsized all the parking spaces!
The thing is, all that exterior size those old-school full-size cars had didn’t buy you any more interior space than a good midsize today. FWD and 40 years of thinking carefully about packaging have really made a difference in that respect.
I have to disagree, you did get you more space in the old school cars especially interior width and height.
Reg; “Full size cars of the late ’60s were 220 inches long, 79 inches wide and weighed just under 5,000 lbs.”
You need to check your figures. A 66′ Bonneville 4-dr hardtop weighed less then 4,000 The wagon just over 4,000pds.
My 66′ Impala convertible weighed only 3,700 pds. and 78′ Cadillac Coupe de Ville only weighed about 4,200.
Meh, it’s still a good 15 inches shorter than a 96 impala SS. I imagine the packaging is much more efficient however, so the real metric should be interior room.
“scarey”, I agree! Full size means the 1992 Towncar we used to own. Besides, I thought that sedans were dead and that the new, mini-sized SUVs like the CR-V and smaller were the hottest growing segment of the industry.
Yup, full-size is what our 1992 Towncar was.
Besides, sedans are dead. The new fad is small CUVs like the CR-V and smaller.
testing
Hey, got one to work!!! Wanted to tell “scarey” that full-size was the 1992 Towncar we owned. Besides, sedans are dead. The new fad is small CUVs like the CR-V and smaller.
nope, still losing comments….
maybe this time…………
Compare the two 4 door cars with manual transmissions, oh wait only one comes that way in 2015.
I cannot wait until a Hellcat pulls up next to my Wildcat! Our dealership is getting three HCs, all pre-ordered and pre-sold.
I had a customer call on Challengers– they’re only interested in R/T, SRT and Hellcats. This customer asked about the Hellcat, of course.
My manager heard this and I was told to never talk about the Hellcat again. He didn’t say why.
First DK hope no one you know was affected by today’s events north of our border.
I’d like to see the the volume model (SXT and Imp) compared first. It’s most relevant to me and likely many others. As nice as the Hellcat is, I can’t imagine its materially different than the Challenger Hellcat, so I’m comfortable waiting.
I don’t see how the SXT V6 does any good against an Impala. I know its not apples to apples, but the last time I was in an SXT was about a year and a half ago in a ’12 model – it was a rental and they had to switch me out of it after a week and a half because it was going to run at auction. I got a ’13 3.6 Impala LTZ instead. What a hoot that car was in comparison.
I’m really surprised to hear you say that. Was the SXT you were in an 8 speed model?
It seems that on paper, the SXT charger is the king of full size entry level sedans.
It would have been a 5 speed auto if it was a 2012 model. No Challenger got any 8 speed trans until 2015.
I vote for the Charger SXT / Impala 2LT comparo.
I vote for a buildup order. 6, 8, BOOST!
I’d like to hear about the SXT vs 2LT. I’m sick of hearing about the hellcat, which is a car that is out of reach of most people.
“the Hellcat standalone review, or a shootout between the Charger SXT V6 and Chevrolet Impala 2LT and the Charger SRT 392 and the Chevrolet SS the V6 and V8 shootouts will get their own articles.”
Is there an embargo on punctuation? Something is not right there.
Derek is likely asleep now, but since it’s still Wednesday evening for me, I’ve gone ahead and placed the semicolon where it needed to be. Problem solved!
I’d vote Scat Pack but that isn’t on the list…so 392 it is.
V6 Shootou!! I wanna know what the better rental car is the next time I walk into an Enterprise.
A large purple RWD sedan, with gold wheels. Sir your 1996 Impala SS is ready.
That Charger is ghastly.
The design of those wheels is amazing but the color is awful. I’d so much rather have either unpainted alloy, or at least dark gray if I can’t have unpainted.
It just looks purple in that light. That’s actually grey as they aren’t painting them in purple or anything close just yet.
Ahh ok.
Looking forward to the embargo being lifted, but for the life of me, will someone please tell me what “B&B” stands for? Bread and Butter? Certainly not Bed and Breakfast.
Best & Brightest(TM), the self-imposed nickname of TTAC’s peanut gallery of commenters. Sometimes it’s sincere, mostly it’s sarcastic.
Robert Farago used that term. I’m guessing that his intent was to praise the community and to gently mock it, all at the same time. (For those unfamiliar with the origins of the term, I’m sure that the irony was not lost on RF: http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/15/home/halberstam-best.html )
I’m not a fan of popularising inner-circle nicknames, abbreviations and other jargon, because it’s unwelcoming to new people.
But TTAC does have the best user commentary of any automotive site, so I’ve been loath to openly complain about it.
I also thought it stood for “Bread and Butter” until a few weeks ago when somebody actually wrote it out in full.
Best and Brightest.
SRT vs ss
SS technically might not qualify as American, but it’s still the face-off everyone wants to see.
Anything with a comparison is a better read than something about just one car.
…….unless that one car has 700 horsepower.
I really could not care less about the Hellcat. That is about 3X as much power as I have any interest in paying for. At least until the speedlimits on the interstates go away. Then it will be 2X as much as I am willing to pay for.
Calling a Charger and it’s derivatives “Full-size” is a misnomer. Has the same passenger volume as the Camry, Accord and Fusion. Just looks “full size”…
I’m surprised that bigtruckseries isn’t weighing in with his Hemi-powered bluster. Is he off TTAC, or did the New York cops finally catch up with him?
Just curious: how many sets of tires did the Hellcat burn through during the shootout?