American Honda’s Civic posted decreased sales volume in each of the last five months. After claiming the title of America’s best-selling small car in two consecutive years, it’s highly unlikely that the Civic will be able to catch the Toyota Corolla with just one month of sales reporting remaining in calendar year 2014.
U.S. Civic sales through the first six months of 2014 increased 5% compared with the same period one year earlier. While the Civic trailed the Corolla at the halfway point in 2014, that second-place status was actually in keeping with the results from 2013, a year in which Honda’s compact sedan and coupe ended 34,000 sales ahead of the venerable Toyota compact. (Note: Corolla sales reported by Toyota USA always include the Matrix.)
But from July 2014 onward, the Civic did not prove capable of matching 2013’s impressive second-half sales rate, a period which saw Honda generate 53% of its 2013 Civic volume, sufficient for Honda to post the highest level of Civic sales since 2008.
July volume in 2014 slid 7% before August’s 14% plunge, September’s 3% dip, and 12% declines in both October and November. In the July-November period of 2013, Honda sold 148,476 Civics in the United States, but that figure dropped by nearly 15,000 units to 133,547 in 2014.
We can’t deny the impact of outside forces. The traditional top-selling car in America, the Corolla, was redesigned more recently than the Civic. (Corolla volume has increased in seven of the last eight months.) Manufacturers are always working to strike the right balance between chasing volume (with incentives, for example) and protecting long-term profits (by linking OTD prices more closely with MSRPs.) Honda is also well-known for generating the lion’s share of its volume from retail customers.
Yet any dismay over the Civic’s recent decline can cause us to forget the fact that it’s still a wildly popular car, just not as popular as it was a year ago. Through the end of November, Honda topped the 300,000-unit barrier for the third consecutive year and for the seventh time in the last decade. It’s America’s second-best-selling small car by a wide margin, leading the Chevrolet Cruze by more than 45,000 units.
Meanwhile, north of the border, the Civic has secured a 17th consecutive victory as Canada’s best-selling car overall and will report in 2014 the nameplate’s best year since 2008. Back in the U.S., Honda’s good news is plentiful, though it’s not necessarily Civic-related. The CR-V outsold all utility vehicles and all cars in November 2014. The Accord, up 7% through the first eleven months of 2014, was America’s best-selling car in August and September.
Timothy Cain is the founder of GoodCarBadCar.net, which obsesses over the free and frequent publication of U.S. and Canadian auto sales figures.
Could it be that the Civic is just an un-interesting looking car? I mean, talk about BORING!
Not like the excitement on four wheels Corolla
And the Corolla isn’t? Just sayin…
The Si looks pretty nice in sedan and coupe form, but that’s a small niche.
Have to agree; the Corolla is no less boring. Honda’s CR-Z though… Very Interestink.
kvndoom,
You’re damning the Si with faint praise. I only recently saw an Si sedan for the first time with the relatively subdued little wing and I think it’s an extremely good looking, yet affordable and fairly practical car.
Maybe my wording wasn’t too great. Shoot, I think they’re beautiful, inside and out. It’s just not a volume model, but I’m happy it exists. I walk past a white SI sedan every morning when I come in to work, and it always makes me wish I was 6 inches less tall.
There isn’t a single corolla trim I’d buy, but I would put my own money in a Civic Si with no regrets.
Or the Corolla is giving the customer something the Civic isn’t or can’t.
Go get your torches… The current Corolla looks sharp. That may be helping it. Even the hatch does. I haven’t liked a Corolla since the awesome 1993 “Baby Camry” one. I like this one.
Toyota has improved a LOT lately in the looks department.
I agree. The new Corolla looks good and handles acceptably. Previous gens were downright scary on wet or snowy roads.
The latest Civics are awkward looking, like a teenager in the middle of a growth spurt. Their high-tech interior look is almost 10 years old now, and their plastics are still depressing.
Honda needs to do better. The Civic has been standing still for a long time, and it doesn’t dominate the segment anymore.
I really like the looks of the current Corolla, especially with the LED DRLs. Although I see a lot of them with the DRLs off, are there really that many people that hate daytime visibility? It’s not like the lights are going to burn out any time soon.
Those are not the DRLs, those are the headlights. Every corolla has standard LED low-beam headlights.
This just makes it that much more of an insult when the “premium” brands want to charge you extra for HID headlights.
What’s really funny is Audi charging *more* for LED headlights as an upsell from HIDs.
Not sure why Toyota doesn’t just make LEDs standard across its model range. That would be enough to make the transition happen across the industry. And then the luxury brands would need some other trick, beyond bright white color, to make their headlights immediately distinguishable.
I don’t know what I hate more, the fact that auto makers have made halogen lights look poverty-spec despite better bulbs not really being more expensive, or the fact that it has REALLY made me want a new car with HIDs.
Those damn retina-searing headlights need to be outlawed. If you are driving with your low beams on and you can’t see where you are going, you need to slow down (if there’s oncoming traffic) or use high beams (if there’s not oncoming traffic), not blind everyone else on the road.
Then, once we get back to rational amounts of glare from the low beams, we can start working on teaching people when to use the high beams (hint, folks, you don’t need to use your high beams when driving on a residential street at 20 mph where there’s a street light every few hundred feet, and oncoming traffic.)
And fog lights when there’s no fog? Yeah, right, that makes you look all rallyish and cool…not!
If low beams are searing your retinas, they’re almost certainly aftermarket HID conversions, which should all be killed in a fire. Factory HIDs and LEDs do a good job of managing glare.
This is so true, factory HIDs will NOT sear your retinas. Improperly applied aftermarket “kits” which scatter the beam and are illegal is what’s hurting your eyes
All HID retrofit bulbs are illegal in the US and many other countries since to work properly the optics of the reflector need to be designed with the bulb that they are used with in mind. For what ever reason the gov’t hasn’t shut those companies down. The other reality is that those HID retrofits do not improve your visibility one bit, sure they are “brighter” but they don’t put the light on the road where you need it.
As far as using fog lights where there isn’t fog I do it with a number of my vehicles because the cornering light has gone away and the fogs on my vehicles do an OK standing in for them. I live out in the boonies where there are no street lights for miles and being able to see where you are turning is really needed. I did notice at the Ford site that they are now calling them Fog/Cornering lights on the new Transit Connect.
Fog lights aren’t just for fog. They also work great in snow and with wet pavement at night (with the kind of asphalt that turns ultra-black when wet).
They are also good in residential areas if you want to see pets/wildlife coming out from between parked cars.
Yes, they are LED headlights but brettc brings up the exact problem with the LED headlights in the Corolla.
By every report they completely suck. Yes, they meet DOT minimum standards for brightness but the system Toyota implemented is cheap, very yellow, and gives poor light. Hence I’m not surprised that he has mistaken them for DRLs – because they’re so yellow in appearance that is exactly what they look like.
Just because a perceived premium feature is offered, doesn’t make it a premium. GM was a master of this in the late 90s and the roll up to the bankruptcy. Provide “content” but provide the lowest common denominator content.
Great, it has LED headlights. And a torsion beam suspension, 4-speed automatic, steel rims and hubcaps, drum brakes in the rear, and a 1987 LCD digital clock smack dab in the middle of the dashboard.
But, but, but, LEDs!
I wish actual yellow headlights were legal. The Fremch used to have them, and fog-lights should have them. Yellow is better for low-visibility situations.
The 1993 through 97 Corolla was a sweet car for its time.
In this segment, I doubt very seriously it’s the look of it. We’re talking about the battle of appliances here; Maytag vs. Samsung. For this buyer whom most likely doesn’t care what car it is as long as it’s perceived to be reliable and most importantly, affordable. Toyota has been kicking that message through the goal post since the ’80’s. Final extra point would be these purveyors of driving excitement want a nice, simple car; the Civic is just too weird inside for the vanilla crowd.
The Corolla is roomier, quieter, easier to get into and out of, easier to use and better contented. It also gets mildly better mileage in real-world tests.
It’s also a couple of red circles up on the Civic in CR.
I’m not a huge fan of the car, but it’s very good at it’s intended mission, where the Civic comes off as rather cramped. I personally skipped the Civic in favour of the Fit because of packaging, and I can see people who wouldn’t make that choice going Corolla as well.
It has also been engineered to “American tastes.” That basically means it gives about as much road feel and steering feedback as a 1976 Buick Electra 225.
As a result, there’s little point to buy this over a CRVEX, which will give you more room and an equally lame a-s driving experience.
Reminds me of a mid-Seventies Bob Hope Oscar joke :I was late getting here, a Honda Civic got stuck in my tailpipe”
It’s incentives.
$169 a month lease with $999 down drive out.
0% for 60 months. $1000 cash on the hood. Dealer ATP close to 10% below sticker.
Then toss on top of that the bargain basement sticker price to begin with.
Toyota is doing anything it can to sell as many Corollas and Camrys as possible.
Yup Toyota is the new GM, buy market share/#1 seller in a category at almost any cost.
Toyota spends lots and lots of money on radio and TV add touting those rebates, 0% interest and low low lease rates. Meanwhile at Honda the incentives are much lower/less frequent and they don’t spend near as much on advertising.
Speaking as someone who had the choice of a brand-new 2012 Civic or a CPO for ~$4K cheaper, the newer Civic just looked and felt CHEAPER to me, inside and out, than the previous-generation car. Even post-refresh, it still has a sheen of cost-cutting about it.
I haven’t gotten as close a look at the Corolla, but I’m going to give both a close look at next year’s auto show.
The civic does have a mole cricket type body. Corolla is not looker and the driving dynamics are crappy. But it does look better then the civic. I guess none of these buyers has stepped food in a Forte or Elantra. They both seem light years ahead in design, content, and build quality compared to civic and corolla.
I’ll give you style and content, but if my 2013 Optima is any indication, build quality is in no way light years ahead.
The Corolla has a better interior and rides like a more substantial car. The Civic has a more nimble chassis but lacks in the interior materials/layout. I helped my sister find/purchase he car this year, a 2014 Corolla S. It’s boring but exactly what she wanted. Reliable, nice interior after coming out of a 2010 Sentra and doesn’t feel too small. I just helped get a 2014 CRV last week for my mother so I looked over the Civic
Ain’t surprised. The competition has caught up to the Civic, and in some ways passed it by. As ugly (to me) as the Corolla is, I can see why it’s selling: but compare the Civic to its’ competitors, and ‘it’s lagging on it’s job’, as my wife would say. Never thought that Hyundai, Ford, Chevy would dust Civic with their offerings, but they do .. I WAS looking at Civics. Not anymore..
Both the Civic and Corolla are huge winners. This story should compare the poor sales of Detroit offerings in this segment relative to Toyota and Honda. That is the story.
Part of the poor Ford performance is the Ford business plan that overprices their offerings in the name of profit. How much do you pay those guys?
Wall Street is not impressed. Ford stock was downgraded Monday. You can overprice products plagued with reliability issues for so long.
“Note: Corolla sales reported by Toyota USA always include the Matrix.”
Which has been dead for some time. According to cars.com, there are only five left in the entire country. Toyota has been doing this strictly on the back of the plain-jane sedan, while Honda lumps in all CIvic variants (Hybrid, Si, CNG) into their sales numbers. Pull those out and the gap is even larger.
I’ve driven both as rentals recently and the Corolla, while by no means a driver’s car, was quieter, seat-of-the-pants quicker, and more pleasing to sit in than the Civic. Still pine for the old XRS engine, but they’ve designed a car that is exactly what the masses want.
If you want a compact Toyota with a big-boy engine, your dealer will happily direct you to the Scion corner of the showroom.
No it won’t. Toyota dealers do everything they can to sabotage Scion.
Despite all of the guffaw at the 2012 model when it came out, I see boatloads of the 9th generation Civic here in Indiana, doesn’t hurt the Greensburg factory is less than an hour’s drive away. In fact, I drive one myself (mine was built in Canada however).
After test driving most of the competition, I came back to the Civic. The interior layout and roominess is still ahead of the competition, and it’s sort of an intangible metric, compared to the number of gears in an ‘outdated’ transmission or not having enough ‘flame surfacing’ on the sheetmetal. Growing up with older Civics, the low and unobtrusive dash and extremely low center console were very appealing. The super slick shifter and sewing machine-smooth 4cyl were also part of the appeal. The fact that the car only weighs 2650lb while being safe and being so roomy really speaks to the bone-deep engineering that went into it. That low weight helps me eke out 38-40 mpg in the summer in mixed driving, I couldn’t be happier. The insane resale doesn’t hurt either, I bought mine in 2013 with 11k miles for $15k, I still see 2012 LXs with 30k miles advertised for $14-15k.
Now in the minuses it is wholly undeniable that the 2012s in particular have poor sound insulation, particularly in regards to road noise. Also, the ride/handling balance is pretty far over to the soft side. Which I don’t mind on our potholed interstates and side streets, but taking on/off ramps with gusto yields a significant amount of body roll, more than Civics of yore.
I do agree that the Civic is no longer that sporty, nifty jewel of a car that they once were, but they are still incredibly well engineered cars. I’d love to see them blow everyone out of the water for gen 10, much like the 2013 Accord dide for the midsizers.
Lost another comment…. reposting
Despite all of the guffaw at the 2012 model when it came out, I see boatloads of the 9th generation Civic here in Indiana, doesn’t hurt the Greensburg factory is less than an hour’s drive away. In fact, I drive one myself (mine was built in Canada however).
After test driving most of the competition, I came back to the Civic. The interior layout and roominess is still ahead of the competition, and it’s sort of an intangible metric, compared to the number of gears in an ‘outdated’ transmission or not having enough ‘flame surfacing’ on the sheetmetal. Growing up with older Civics, the low and unobtrusive dash and extremely low center console were very appealing. The super slick shifter and sewing machine-smooth 4cyl were also part of the appeal. The fact that the car only weighs 2650lb while being safe and being so roomy really speaks to the bone-deep engineering that went into it. That low weight helps me eke out 38-40 mpg in the summer in mixed driving, I couldn’t be happier. The insane resale doesn’t hurt either, I bought mine in 2013 with 11k miles for $15k, I still see 2012 LXs with 30k miles advertised for $14-15k.
Now in the minuses it is wholly undeniable that the 2012s in particular have poor sound insulation, particularly in regards to road noise. Also, the ride/handling balance is pretty far over to the soft side. Which I don’t mind on our potholed interstates and side streets, but taking on/off ramps with gusto yields a significant amount of body roll, more than Civics of yore.
I do agree that the Civic is no longer that sporty, nifty jewel of a car that they once were, but they are still incredibly well engineered cars. I’d love to see them blow everyone out of the water for gen 10, much like the 2013 Accord dide for the midsizers.
The Honda Civic’s Spaceballs style dash/gauge layout annoys.
Engage.
Nice troll, the gauge cluster is *always* the nemesis
Lol. While DW’s gauge fixation is amusing, I would have to say the Civic has one of the wonkiest layouts I’ve ever seen. When I test drove an Si a few years back, I legimately could not adjust the seat and steering wheel height to see both levels of gauge at the same time.
That being said, I think the futurey vibe of the civic’s gauges could work better in the ATS than its boring as sin ones. Your move DW.
It’s not just they futuristic/Nintendo gauges, but more importantly, the multi-tiered, layer cake dash that comes into play in the section of the dash where the gauges are housed.
It’s weird looking and not at all elegant, functional or aesthetically pleasing.
Designing functional, nice looking gauges and dashboards should not be as difficult as many automakers apparently would lead many to believe.
Just crib from VW, Mazda or Audi (oops, Audi is VW), and increasingly, Hyundai, if you’re an automaker who is perplexed as to what good design/functionality should look like.
Or circa-1995 Honda/Acura/BMW.
Hyundai? Really? They are still the most derivative of all. I’m not sure they’ve ever had an original idea.
Meh, I’ll bite. The gauge cluster got lots of controversy when the 8th gen civic came out, but it sold well, either because of/in spite of. If I remember right, the 9th gen was supposed to be on a new, larger platform, but Honda nixed that idea when gas prices spiked. Last minute changes on an older platform didn’t make for a great car, but it still sold fine. Now the platform is getting really old.
Also, Toyota knows how to update a favorite without alienating their loyal customers. Nice shiny new sheetmetal, but still got that digital clock we all know and love since the 80s. No futzing around with the head unit just to set the clock. Thanks, Toyota.
I test drove the redesigned model when I was in the market. My biggest complaint was that I disliked the seats, as I have in most Honda (and Acura) products. People have ragged on the dashboard and the materials quality and the lack of sophistication and all that. Mostly I think the Civic’s problem, to the extent that it has one, is that it just isn’t very comfortable.
I love the Toyota digital clock. It’s the same as the 1991 Camry I grew up in. I chuckle whenever I read people seizing over it on the forums. They did update it. It used to be 1990s green, but now it comes in modern blue and amber. What more could you want?
My experience is that people initially thing its weird, and then love it after the second testdrive or first week of ownership, one of the two. My mother swears by it.
The market disagrees, resoundingly
The alien dash minivan face 8th gen increased sales vs the conventional 7th gen until the recession hit. And even then it was still moving 250-260K cars/yr
If the dash annoys it’s not enough to matter from a business perspective.
I had a 2006. I got used to the layout almost immediately, and really liked the central tach (my car was a stick). My only objection to the gauges was the poor resolution of the digital fuel gauge, a complaint which applies even more to my 2013 Forester.
The Civic’s DLO fail garners my disapproval every time. Almost as egregious as the Focus’s, which is almost as egregious as the Cruze’s.
My mom buys a top of the line Corolla every few years and loves it. It holds its value, rock solid reliable, and boring as hell. The civic used to have a younger demographic and a better sport capability. All I keep reading is that Honda has engineered out any sport it had left. Personally it seems to me that associating “sporty” with Honda is almost impossible anymore. All keeping in line with a list of choices I don’t understand for Honda/Acura.
“Personally it seems to me that associating “sporty” with Honda is almost impossible anymore. All keeping in line with a list of choices I don’t understand for Honda/Acura.”
I wonder if this has anything to do with the “Japanese youth don’t care about cars anymore” we keep hearing about. Tim, do you have access to sales charts in Japan? Or does anyone know how Honda’s changing priorities are reviewed abroad?
“Japanese youth don’t care about cars anymore”
Japan still makes youth?
Emos, kind of the same thing
The base model Corolla-L still has an available 4-speed auto, while Honda has gone over to the CVT. Some people still nervous about CVT reliability will choose the Toyota for that reason alone. Toyota also seems to be pricing its base models somewhat under the Civic’s base models, at least in Southern California.
I think enthusiasts and ‘car people’ over-estimate the importance of newly introduced features as a basis for rejecting the car. If everybody looked for rock-solid reliability, Detroit would have gone completely out of business years ago.
If the CVT is a good value and performance proposition, especially from a manufacturer with a good reputation, I don’t think it will hold the car back. The Corolla L is just there to hit a price point, which it does tolerably well. It *does* have an automatic at that price point and people shopping principally price aren’t going to get hot’n’bothered about whether it has 4 forward speeds or 10.
I do see a lot of base Corollas around here, despite its archaic 4 speed auto.
I went to Honda’s website a little while ago, which is why I mention the CR-Z. Yes, many models have the CVT available–either standard or optional–but those same models do have other transaxles available as well, including the CR-Z.
As I understand it, the issue with the CVT is that the belt/chain/whatever they use between pulleys simply can’t handle the torque of a more powerful engine; until recently anything more than about 100 horses would burn them out (I admit I don’t know the torque numbers). I did notice that the Civic and CR-Z are rated around 135 horses so may be the the “safe” range for a CVT.
Problem is, not all that many people in the US want such low horsepower numbers and I believe that’s mostly because they don’t realize what kind of performance you can realize out of a small engine in a light enough car. I’ll admit I was surprised how peppy 101 horses are in a Fiat 500 Pop. People who feel they need a minimum of 200 horses seem to forget that 200 horses used to push around 2-ton vehicles all the time not all that long ago and with the 6-speed and 9-speed transmissions available today, you can start with much lower gearing which gets a vehicle to speed much more quickly without straining the engine nearly as much. Small engines today offer a surprising amount of torque.
But… the new Civic simply isn’t a sporty-looking car any more, though at least they offer a 2-door coupe which makes it look a little better. The new Corolla isn’t a sporty-looking car any more and I couldn’t find a coupe version on their website. So Toyota is gaining the upper hand apparently on its reputation for reliability more than on any real ‘looks’ factor.
The Accord (182 hp I think) has a CVT. Nissan puts 290 HP through a CVTs in the Maxima.
I think you seriously overestimate how much the typical buyer knows about transmissions, or even cares about transmissions. My wife did not know her Nissan had a CVT for the first 3 years she owned it (i.e. until we met). I still don’t think she totally gets the difference between that and an automatic.
People who aren’t “car” people don’t care that much about the car, unless they are status-chasers. That’s why the CLA is such a big seller: They put a desirable M.B. star on a car that could just as easily be a Kia.
And yet Lexus CT sells in fairly small numbers.
The new Golf blows all these cars out!
The drive, the confort, the build, and the std equipment just awesome.
More consumers should test drive a Golf and they would all see and feel the difference.
There is nothing that compares.
Yes, but look at the price difference. Especially at the top-end. The Golf “blows all these cars out” because it is literally in another price bracket.
As much as I love VW, I really don’t think the Golf is comparable to a Civic or a Corolla. If VW offered the Polo sedan then it might be a fairer comparison.
And ten years from now, that little Civic that you hate so much will just be getting broken in with over 200k on the clock.
Your beloved, cute little Golf will have been passed from one person to the next once its factory warranty runs out, each of which complaining about the numerous problems they’ve experienced with it, followed by complaints of their financial losses due to extraordinarily high repair bills.
Go ahead, knock the Civic. And the Camry, while you’re at it. They’ll still be around.
That Golf thing will be someone’s headache and wasting space on a tow yard at that time, if not fed to Jaws by then.
With that in mind… oh yeah, the Golf’s a GREAT car!
This has been your morning dose of reality. Better buzz than coffee, isn’t it?
A Golf is a driver’s car, in typical German fashion. A Civic isn’t.
Apples to oranges. Price be damned.
Morning dose of repeating internet common wisdom, more like it.
Tell us about your Civic with the 200k miles on it. Give us the VIN so we can run a Carfax on it.
Sorry – I get what you’re saying, but I just get tired of the TTAC echo chamber effect.
You’ve never owned any Honda or Toyota, have you?
For the record, I also had a JVW etta. Engine and 5MT lasted longer than the rust that ensued underneath of it, corroding the exhaust and fuel system, putting it out of commission, even though it still ran.
Everything ELSE in the car quit working. No heat/air. Gauges kicked the bucket. Enough hesitations to drive you bat-sh*t crazy. I could go on and on. To be frank, I got off EASY by only experiencing those issues as to opposed to catastrophic failures.
Granted, that’s only my experience. But keep drinking that VW Kool-Aid. Just don’t be surprised when you end up having purple teeth.
My couple useless internet thoughts. My parents swear by Toyota. Nothing ever goes wrong with thier cars. I’ve owned a couple Hondas. I absolutely hated them, but they were reliable. I’ve also owned a series (7 in a row now) German cars to include Porsche and multiple BMWs. Never had any issues with them either, despite what people always want to say about reliability. They are signifcantly more engaging, fun, and expensive for sure. But, my point, I take care care of my cars and they have been reliable for me. I’ve owned multiple german cars out of warranty (for years). Fantastic cars.
Owned a 2007 Sienna Limited from 2010 until this past July – 44,000 miles to 94,000.
Nice van – seemed good quality and very nice to drive, for a minivan. Great engine. Very nice materials, in and out.
Tranny went nuts at 65,000 – slam-shifing, delayed up- and down-shifts, etc. Cured with a $300 flush, refill, wipe of the CPU.
Front-bank (thank god…) upstream O2 sensor went bad at 74,000. Replaced by me for $140.
OEM battery died in 2012. slightly early, but…it’s a battery. Whatever.
Creak in front end at 85,000 – thought it was bad strut bearing, but it was BOTH front coils broken. Replaced by me with KYB/Moog assemblies I built up myself with my spring compressor. Obviously a bad batch of coils.
Driver-side power folding mirror had a broken detent…would not stay in position. Don’t know what caused it.
Dashboard volume knob on JBL stereo (factory) stopped working – one on steering wheel still worked. Don’t know what that would have cost to fix – never did.
Dumb cartridge oil filter PIA to change. Normal filter replacements, brake pads, etc. Not bad to work on, other than the drum-in-a-disk rotor rear parking brake. All maintenance by the book. Full Weathertech floorliner set, Laminex on the heads and fogs, custom sunshade…vehicle was pampered. Always clean and waxed, separate snows on steelies.
Three service campaigns – plastic VVT oil line replaced with metal one, power sliding door cables replaced, spare tire tether replaced with corrosion-proof one.
A very nice vehicle. Bulletproof? Oh, no…not at all.
State-of-the-art comment system ate my first one…
Owned a 2007 Sienna Limited from 2010 until this past July – 44,000 miles to 94,000.
Nice van – seemed good quality and very nice to drive, for a minivan. Great engine. Very nice materials, in and out.
Tranny went nuts at 65,000 – slam-shifing, delayed up- and down-shifts, etc. Cured with a $300 flush, refill, wipe of the CPU.
Front-bank (thank god…) upstream O2 sensor went bad at 74,000. Replaced by me for $140.
OEM battery died in 2012. slightly early, but…it’s a battery. Whatever.
Creak in front end at 85,000 – thought it was bad strut bearing, but it was BOTH front coils broken. Replaced by me with KYB/Moog assemblies I built up myself with my spring compressor. Obviously a bad batch of coils.
Driver-side power folding mirror had a broken detent…would not stay in position. Don’t know what caused it.
Dashboard volume knob on JBL stereo (factory) stopped working – one on steering wheel still worked. Don’t know what that would have cost to fix – never did.
Dumb cartridge oil filter PIA to change. Normal filter replacements, brake pads, etc. Not bad to work on, other than the drum-in-a-disk rotor rear parking brake. All maintenance by the book. Full Weathertech floorliner set, Laminex on the heads and fogs, custom sunshade…vehicle was pampered. Always clean and waxed, separate snows on steelies.
Three service campaigns – plastic VVT oil line replaced with metal one, power sliding door cables replaced, spare tire tether replaced with corrosion-proof one.
A very nice vehicle. Bulletproof? Oh, no…not at all.
Commenting system is acting up…
I Owned a 2007 Sienna Limited from 2010 until this past July – 44,000 miles to 94,000.
Nice van – seemed good quality and very nice to drive, for a minivan. Great engine. Very nice materials, in and out.
Tranny went nuts at 65,000 – slam-shifing, delayed up- and down-shifts, etc. Cured with a $300 flush, refill, wipe of the CPU.
Front-bank (thank god…) upstream O2 sensor went bad at 74,000. Replaced by me for $140.
OEM battery died in 2012. slightly early, but…it’s a battery. Whatever.
Creak in front end at 85,000 – thought it was bad strut bearing, but it was BOTH front coils broken. Replaced by me with KYB/Moog assemblies I built up myself with my spring compressor. Obviously a bad batch of coils.
Driver-side power folding mirror had a broken detent…would not stay in position. Don’t know what caused it.
Dashboard volume knob on JBL stereo (factory) stopped working – one on steering wheel still worked. Don’t know what that would have cost to fix – never did.
Dumb cartridge oil filter PIA to change. Normal filter replacements, brake pads, etc. Not bad to work on, other than the drum-in-a-disk rotor rear parking brake. All maintenance by the book. Full Weathertech floorliner set, Laminex on the heads and fogs, custom sunshade…vehicle was pampered. Always clean and waxed, separate snows on steelies.
Three service campaigns – plastic VVT oil line replaced with metal one, power sliding door cables replaced, spare tire tether replaced with corrosion-proof one.
A very nice vehicle. Bulletproof? Oh, no…not at all.
Tough trying to post a comment here…
I Owned a 2007 Sienna Limited from 2010 until this past July – 44,000 miles to 94,000.
Nice van – seemed good quality and very nice to drive, for a minivan. Great engine. Very nice materials, in and out.
Tranny went nuts at 65,000 – slam-shifing, delayed up- and down-shifts, etc. Cured with a $300 flush, refill, wipe of the CPU.
Front-bank (thank god…) upstream O2 sensor went bad at 74,000. Replaced by me for $140.
OEM battery died in 2012. slightly early, but…it’s a battery. Whatever.
Creak in front end at 85,000 – thought it was bad strut bearing, but it was BOTH front coils broken. Replaced by me with KYB/Moog assemblies I built up myself with my spring compressor. Obviously a bad batch of coils.
Driver-side power folding mirror had a broken detent…would not stay in position. Don’t know what caused it.
Dashboard volume knob on JBL stereo (factory) stopped working – one on steering wheel still worked. Don’t know what that would have cost to fix – never did.
Dumb cartridge oil filter PIA to change. Normal filter replacements, brake pads, etc. Not bad to work on, other than the drum-in-a-disk rotor rear parking brake. All maintenance by the book. Full Weathertech floorliner set, Laminex on the heads and fogs, custom sunshade…vehicle was pampered. Always clean and waxed, separate snows on steelies.
Three service campaigns – plastic VVT oil line replaced with metal one, power sliding door cables replaced, spare tire tether replaced with corrosion-proof one.
A very nice vehicle. Bulletproof? Oh, no…not at all
Comments are crapping out.
I Owned a 2007 Sienna Limited from 2010 until this past July – 44,000 miles to 94,000.
Nice van – seemed good quality and very nice to drive, for a minivan. Great engine. Very nice materials, in and out.
Tranny went nuts at 65,000 – slam-shifing, delayed up- and down-shifts, etc. Cured with a $300 flush, refill, wipe of the CPU.
Front-bank (thank god…) upstream O2 sensor went bad at 74,000. Replaced by me for $140.
OEM battery died in 2012. slightly early, but…it’s a battery. Whatever.
Creak in front end at 85,000 – thought it was bad strut bearing, but it was BOTH front coils broken. Replaced by me with KYB/Moog assemblies I built up myself with my spring compressor. Obviously a bad batch of coils.
Driver-side power folding mirror had a broken detent…would not stay in position. Don’t know what caused it.
Dashboard volume knob on JBL stereo (factory) stopped working – one on steering wheel still worked. Don’t know what that would have cost to fix – never did.
Dumb cartridge oil filter PIA to change. Normal filter replacements, brake pads, etc. Not bad to work on, other than the drum-in-a-disk rotor rear parking brake. All maintenance by the book. Full Weathertech floorliner set, Laminex on the heads and fogs, custom sunshade…vehicle was pampered. Always clean and waxed, separate snows on steelies.
Three service campaigns – plastic VVT oil line replaced with metal one, power sliding door cables replaced, spare tire tether replaced with corrosion-proof one.
A very nice vehicle. Bulletproof? Oh, no…not at all
> Tell us about your Civic with the 200k miles on it.
That would be me (okay, it’s km but, hey.)
200k? My neighbor put 245k on a ’98. It had a transmission replacement at one point but all those miles were on the original motor.
> 200k? My neighbor put 245k on a ’98.
It’s actually 230km, but that’s still low for a 95′ I know. Very hard to put high mileage because I live in the city center and close to mass transit now. It’s so bloody easy to maintain, just belts and the usual wear items. Not a spot of rust. Just helped a friend pick up a 95′ Integra from the same era, same story. Engine just as sweet and smooth as when the car was young.
@stuntmonkey: I was talking miles, not kilometers. I guess it would be over 394,000km.
I’ve owned two consecutive VW diesels. Sold the first one with 462,000 km on it, sold the second with just short of 430,000 km on it. Both were still running, and I sold them to someone who was going to keep driving them, not the scrap heap. Granted, both had a list of things needing fixing at the end (which is why I sold them), but I think with 400,000+ km, that’s allowed.
For the moment I’ve gone away from VW diesels, because I don’t trust the latest generation of emission controls on *all* diesel engines (not just VW), but I can’t really complain about the ones that I’ve owned.
Funny, I see way more old Golfs and Jettas here in Vancouver than I see old Corollas or Civics. I guess young secondhand buyers wouldn’t be caught dead driving a grandma car.
Civic is probably better in the south.
In quebec, salt rules and all the older civics on the road are rusted to the core if not treated with oil spray.
The golf fares better with the 12 yrs corrosion waranty.
They are built to last longer and yes they’ve had their problems,yet more fun to drive.
The core attributes of the Golf and Civic/Corolla don’t overlap much. They will attract different kinds of buyers. I’d buy the Golf myself because I like its virtues and can tolerate the more rapid depreciation and higher long-term maintenance. If you want your compact to be as reliable, predictable, functional, and cost-effective as possible, it’s best to go with the Honda or Toyota.
I own a VW on the Golf platform, and despite everything else I really enjoy about it, it is depreciating faster than a Civic or Corolla, and will undoubtedly cost me more to own in the long run.
“If you want your compact to be as reliable, predictable, functional, and cost-effective as possible, it’s best to go with the Honda or Toyota.”
I drive a 911 Carrera, my wife drives a BMW and our other car is a Honda Pilot. To me, it feels like complete opposites. The Porsche is dynamic, engaging, communicative, fun, and just plain kick butt (to me that is). The Pilot is reliable, heavy but underpowered, sloppy, disengaged, boring, and just devoid of fun. I absolutely hate the Pilot. Never again will I purchase a Honda. But it’s paid for and the practical side of me realizes it would be silly at this point to get rid of it.
I wonder how many people go look at the Camry and end up with a Corolla, after all, the new Corolla is much like the 1st Gen Camry, with even more power and refinement
Go on – you’re kidding me.
No, on second thought, you’re right. A new Corolla DOES have more power and refinement than a 1982 Camry, although I’m not sure Toyota would phrase it quite that way.
And I agree with your main point, that there are some people for whom a Camry is just “too much car.” Kinda sad, though.
Why is that sad? Especially in case of Honda, the contemporary Accord is MONSTROUS. In fact even Civic is a shade too big (which is why I bought a Fit).
I test drove a 2015 Civic LX a couple months ago as 2014s with the manual transmission had disappeared from local dealers. I was phenomenally disappointed.
I never drove the CVT car, but I would certainly hope that it is better suited to the vehicle than the 5spd was. The combination of gear ratios and piss-poor throttle response (made even worse by the prominent “ECO” bug, er, feature) made starting harder than in any other manual vehicle, and I’ve been driving stick for 12+ years. The gearing was wacky. Fifth wasn’t tall enough for highway speeds, while at the same time first wasn’t short enough for smooth starts. It could easily use a 7-spd…add both a granny and an(other) OD to the existing 5spd. The shifting felt OK, just the gearing was wack.
Combine this with sub-par NVH performance and the car generated a below-“meh” reaction from me and the family. The vibration of the Civic’s wheel and engine/road noise at 50mph makes my Elantra GT feel luxurious by comparison. I expected better out of a Honda.
Civic too little. People buy CR-V now.
People dumb, maybe need gym membership?
No, cars dumb. Need more tall.
No need for gym membership, Civic too small to carry gym bag
Shoe bigger than Civic.
Toyota have Fore-run, why people want fishface corolla?
Yup.
Those “gills” (on said “Fore-run”) are truly horrific.
Lol damn I was actually thinking RAV4 and got the “4”s confused. To me those 4runner gill things look like lines from tears streamig down its face, with the little lights being perfect little tears. Lol I can’t call them fog lights when they’re probably still higher off the ground than my car’s headlights.
They remind me of the Cybermen from Doctor Who.
Finally the Camry isn’t a snooze to look at anymore.
Gosh! Look what happened! Corolla sales are taking off.
Imagine that.
But that “no room for boring Highlander” looks like hell to me. No thanks, bring back the subtle, toned-down Highlander.
That new Camry does look nice, though. Even if it’s all show and no go.
Civic Si FTW, folks.
“That new Camry does look nice, though. Even if it’s all show and no
go.”
I thought it had “go” since the 3.5 V6 came out in 2007. The 2012 SE added “left” and “right” to the equation, and the new XSE V6 is supposedly sharper. Maybe just harsher. The current SE drives quite well, very unCamry-like.
Meh. Meant Corolla.
Camrys are quite nice, IMHO.
People keep saying the SE can turn. I’ve never driven one, but it’s really hard to suspend disbelief after driving my share of LE and XLE rentals. Asked to turn, they respond kind of like American boats of the 1970s.
The latest Corolla has a massive interior cabin, honestly you need to sit in the back seat to believe it. That plus good value equals increased sales, regardless of online disdain.
I see a lot of anti-Civic comments. I totally understand.
I’m the owner of a 2009 Civic. I bought it used and with under 50k miles. Has been incredibly reliable, except for the tpms sensor light staying on. I still check the tires anyway.
My point being, I fell in love with this generation of Civic years ago but I was unable to secure financing for one back then. This car is hands-down the best I’ve ever owned and yes, the digital dash was a huge selling point for me as it reminded me of my second car, a 1989 Subaru GL-10 Turbo with the digital dashboard.
I like your generation of Civic. The exterior design was unique and clean, the interior was more cohesive and original than the current generation, the seats were good, the powertrain was fine for the time, and it handled well enough. The current one just hasn’t improved enough in the powertrain or interior, while simultaneously going backwards in handling and exterior styling. I’d rather have a 2009 than a 2014.
“I see a lot of anti-Civic comments.”
mr. cranky, they’re not anti-Civic comments they’re just anti-boredom comments
Lie2me,
Would you say a Cruze is less boring than a Civic?
Nope, ’cause I’d be lying
I see them as Civic minded comments.
… and anyone who buys one is just doing their Civic duty
Such civic-ily? Sorry, all I had at the moment.
You’re Civic pride is showing. I hope this doesn’t become a Civic center
The exterior styling of this Civic is messy. The 8th generation (gen) Civic (2006 – 2010) had the cleanest styling and fixed many of the problems suffered by the 7th gen. I see many 8th generation Civic’s around these parts of the globe.
Things went sideways for the 9th gen. First it was ‘de-contented’, and then ‘supped up’ with chrome strips and stitched leather. It reminds me of Pontiac’s obsession with body cladding. Anyone remember the Bonneville before it lost the ‘side skirts’?
It’s as if Honda hired the kids that used to supe up their 4th, 5th-gen Civics and threw them in with the aging designers that designed the previous iterations. They’re doing the same thing with the ILX. The first generation was clean and smooth and now we’ve got the same tacky styling add ons that ruin the look of the car.
This platform is already long in the tooth. Honda’s front double wishbone Civics lasted from 1987 to 2000, a span of 13 years before the switch to the dreadful single lower control arm of the 6th. This platform is in it’s 14th year, and I feel it’s time that Honda did a clean sheet redesign.
Of course, that may mean a move to destroy whatever sporting credentials are left. I should be careful what I wish for. A platform redesign may mean the move to a torsion beam in the rear.
Then I’ll call it the Cavalier.
I have an 8th gen (2008) – It has aged well and still drives great sans for a little rusting by the rear wheel well (though it was my fault for getting the metal exposed in the first place via a scratch I never bothered to fix).
I don’t use it much (garaged outdoors) and I am bored with it but I can’t justify spending on a car. It is what it is but this is the beginning of the decline IMO.
HR-V is going to eat away significantly going forward. My mother has a gen 8 civic as well, and she’ll be looking to trade it for a HR-V.
They could end their misery very easily by selling the European Civic here and dumping the one currently on sale.
The European Civic is worse than the US one (or was, I don’t know how the newest versions compare). Don’t get blinded by the exterior looks- different isn’t necessarily better.
I agree with those who say the current Civic design is well past its best before date. Its futuristic look now just looks weird and old hat. And that instrument panel really sucks, give me a nice, clearly laid out VW dash any day.
Corolla – newer, more $$ on hood/incentives, much greater fleet sales, lower ATP = greater sales than Civic.
Rearsleeper! Not to beat a dead horse but i do recall a few years ago many people who owned Honda & Toyota cars having to replace the rear muffler just about every year and the front flex pipe every 4-5 years. As far as rust goes VW for years has covered their cars for 10-12 years against rust thru on sheet metal. We use a lot of salt in my area of NYC and we still have 45 years old VW’s still on the road. My 78 Toyota was a pile of rust when it went to the junk yard.
Noted, Sir.
I’m from NYC as well and I don’t see any 45 year old Volkswagen, ever, period. In fact, I rarely spot 15 year old ones. Honda’s do have a tendency of building rust at the rear wheel wells, it isn’t that serious of a problem. IMO Nissan’s tend to rot the worst of all, I’ve even had to replace subframes and radiator supports on 5 year old Altimas and Maximas.
I’m not surprised Toyota is moving units, I think this is the best styled Corolla in recent memory, I would have to go back to the 80’s to find a more “trendy” Corolla (ae86!).
The Civic Si, specifically the K20-K24 that powers it, is severly underrated. The specs on paper don’t do it justice. It is a must drive! Simple bolt-on upgrades and software changes really wake it up. I would forfeit its competitor’s turbochargers and direct injection for marginally less performance and class leading reliability/durability.
To each their own! :-)
Lack of fleet sales, fewer incentives and cheap gasoline. There, that’s why sales are down.
Who ever made the Cybermen remark: you win the Internet for the WEEK. I knew there was something … oh, and for a piece of junk, I sure see a lot of Focuses ..
I consider the new Corolla to be Toyota’s copy of an Elantra. The new Corolla is a nice looking car but I prefer the Elantra. Hyundai and Kia are ahead of Toyota and Honda in styling and features.
The Corolla is nice but I consider it a copy of the Elantra which I think is a better car overall. Hyundai and Kia to me appear to be the leaders in style and features and have much more up to date products that are more competitive.
The spam filter is really blocking my comment, must be TTAC is working for Toyota. I said that the new Corolla is a nice car but it is a copy of the Elantra which I consider a better car. Hyundai and Kia seem to be the leaders in design and innovation where Toyota and Honda are resting on their past reputations. Both Honda and Toyota make good vehicles but they have become stogie.
Block my comments. Corolla is nice but I prefer the Elantra which is the original design. Hyundai and Kia have become the leaders in style and innovation.
I used to get excited about new Honda products (think later 90a-early 00s). New, exiting engines, great suspensions, overall “fun” cars. Fast forward to 2014… Honda now makes bloated and overweight Civic with an extremely underpowered D-Series motor that dates back further than my memory! Need an extra side of jagged edged plastic? No need, I wonder if there is any metal on a modern Honda? The only reason this works for Toyota is due to a superior product and exceptional customer service (like when they replaced the frame on my 13 year old Tundra). In contrast. Honda turned me away despite legitimate warranty claims on different vehicles. The Honda name has been milked for all its worth and buyers are starting to realize. This is why I now drive a Fiesta ST! My grandparents traded in their Civic for an Altura and my mother will be giving her Accord back after yet another transmission failure. Honda is a completely different product than it was in he 90s. Hopefully they figure it out before they replace Chrysler in the rental car market!
I’m sure the Civic sales are slipping because the Civics got ugly! Is the worst looking civic in over 20 years.