With the Russian ruble experiencing a near collapse in value, multiple OEMs have decided to suspend sales of its vehicles in Russia.
According to a statement sent to Just-Auto, GM’s Russian arm said
“In view of the volatility of [the] rouble exchange rate and with the aim to manage its business risk, GM Russia has decided to temporarily suspend wholesaling of vehicles to its dealers in Russia as of 16 December, 2014,” said a GM Europe statement emailed to just-auto. At the same time we confirm all Cadillac, Opel and Chevrolet vehicles already purchased by customers will be delivered on the agreed price. We are monitoring the situation.”
Bloomberg is reporting that Audi and Jaguar Land Rover have also suspended sales amid uncertainty in foreign exchange markets. Toyota, Volkswagen are set to adjust their prices in the near future to reflect the new exchange rates.
Russian auto sales have spiked in recent weeks as consumers sought to buy up hard assets to protect against a falling ruble. But the erosion on value of the Russian currency have left several OEMs exposed to currency risks. According to Bloomberg’s report, BMW could stand to lose as much as $135 million dollars due to the recent drop in the ruble.
I think I would have done everything I could to buy a car yesterday if I lived in Russia
There is no doubt in my mind that some converted their rubble denominated cash into land rover or a Porsche in order to avoid further losses
“rubble denominated cash”
I see what you did there.
You know its bend when an asset that does nothing but depreciate the moment you drive it off the lot is considered a safer place to put one’s money.
Not surprising. In the 1980’s, people in our companies in Brazil and Argentina made detailed plans on how to spend their salary payments as soon as they got them, before hyperinflation reduced their value.
The moment they got paid, the rush was on to spend the money before it became worthless. Not a fun way to live, but people do what they have to do.
Today’s Russia is no different. The currency is plunging, so people will buy what they can, while they can.
If you’d bought that Land Rover or Porsche six months ago – you’d definitely still be ahead in today’s Rubles – even with a 5% import duties and 18% sales tax.
A few months ago I saw an article saying that there were huge sales for hard consumer goods…washing machines, etc. Some Russians saw this coming and did convert currency to value.
Interesting situation. I wonder at what point the people of Russia say “хорошенького понемножку” with regards to Putin. Although, to be fair this is what happens when a sizeable portion of your economy is built on changeable natural resources (*cough* Canada *cough*).
Be that as it may, Canada isn’t nearly as aggressive as Russia in politics. I think Russia gets what it deserved. I really dislike Putin and hope they finally kick him out.
“enough is enough” with the foreign language skills!
Seriously, c’mon guys, let’s clean the foreign language thing up before these guys start throwing *cringe* M A T H at us.
We won’t be so smug *then*.
If this was primarily about oil, then the ruble would have seen the sort of declines that have been experienced by the Canadian and Aussie dollars.
This isn’t really about oil. This is traders casting a no-confidence vote in Putin’s recklessness. A currency’s value is ultimately based upon its economic performance and the soundness of this management, and Russia cannot currently brag about either of those.
Actually, it is about oil, whether we like it or not. Oil & gas represent more than 50% of Russian exports, and more than 50% of government revenue. When the price of these goods drops by half, it has a huge impact on government finances, foreign currency earnings and demand for rubles, which in turn has a knock-on effect across the economy – as we are seeing.
Canada and Australia are in a very different space. Australia is a net importer of oil, so it benefits from lower prices.
For Canada, oil & gas make up slightly less than 25% of exports, and are less than exports of industrial goods exports. The latter are led by motor vehicles and parts, just to make it relevant to this site. And those oil & gas exports are made by private companies, not state enterprises, so the drop in prices has much less impact on government revenues than it does in countries like Russia, Venezuela and Iran.
Russia has certainly made bad economic management decisions, which were cushioned by the run-up in oil prices during the past several years. Those chickens have now come home to roost.
A currency’s value is ultimately determined by the law of supply and demand. A number of factors go into this, most notably terms of trade and differences in inflation rates A country that has no dealings with the rest of the world can theoretically set it’s own exchange rate, because there is no market in its currency. When countries do deal in the world, the value of it’s currency becomes subject to market forces.
How has Putin been wreckless exactly? You’re referring to internal issues or foreign policy?
The Russians have been playing little military headfakes with the Europeans. This year, there have been about 80 different instances when NATO had to scramble due to Russian aircraft over European airspace. Recently, there was an incident involving a Russian spyplane that came close to colliding with an airliner over Sweden. There was the recent incident of a Russian submarine in Swedish waters. And of course, there was the not-so-headfake shootdown of MH17.
There is something amiss with this guy. He’s not exactly nuts, but he’s an unpredictable loose cannon and it’s hard to read where he intends to go with this. (The Swedes are no threat to Russia — Sweden isn’t even a member of NATO — yet he’s antagonizing them, anyway.) That sort of leadership makes the ruble the kind of currency that’s worth shorting.
In spite of what some people may think, bad governance does impact the value of a fiat currency, and that sort of instability at the top is disconcerting for the economic future of a nation. He probably won’t start a major conflict, but it isn’t worth the risk betting money (as in Russian currency) on him doing the smart thing.
I agree generally with where you’re going, but not entirely with how you get there.
Putin is not nuts at all. He does have a particular mindset that starts with the view that the West has always disrespected Russia, and that Russia and the west must therefore be competing entities. He has said that the demise of the Soviet Union was a catastrophic event, and clearly wants to recreate a new Russia, as the successor to the Soviet Union, defined by its sphere of influence/local empire.
Because of this, he’s fallen into the Soviet trap of focusing a huge % of GDP on military expenditures, to maintain the image of Russia as the #2 world military power, while relying on oil & gas sales to underpin the economy. Which has stifled real economic development.
Has Russia, post-Yeltsin, focused on developing its economy, it would be streets ahead of where it is today. And we’d all be better off.
My Russian is pretty bad, but I’m guessing that’s ‘good riddance’. It’s unlikely to happen; Putin is like Russia’s ultimate survivor. He’s one tough, smart cookie.
Gadaffi was also one of the ultimate survivors before the City of London got a bug up it’s butt to destroy Libya with help from al-Qaeda and “secure” his *light sweet crude* oil among other things (cough cough prevent a *gold* backed currency). Threatening the dollar? Gee who else is doing that now? Didn’t Saddam do this in 2000?
“The IMF estimates that the bank has nearly 144 tons of gold in its vaults. In the months leading up to the UN resolution that allowed the US and its allies to send troops into Libya, Muammar al-Gaddafi was openly advocating the creation of a new currency that would rival the United States dollar and the Euro. Gaddafi called upon African and Muslim nations to join an alliance that would make this new currency, the gold dinar, their primary form of money and foreign exchange. They would sell oil and other resources to the US and the rest of the world only for gold dinars.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_gold_dinar
“Prior to the onset of hostilities in 2011, Libya had been producing an estimated 1.65 million bbl/d of mostly high-quality light, sweet crude oil.”
http://www.eia.gov/countries/cab.cfm?fips=ly
“In October 2000 Iraq insisted on dumping the US dollar – ‘the currency of the enemy’ – for the more multilateral euro.”
“The changeover was announced on almost exactly the same day that the euro reached its lowest ebb, buying just $0.82, and the G7 Finance Ministers were forced to bail out the currency. On Friday the euro had reached $1.08, up 30 per cent from that time. ”
“Almost all of Iraq’s oil exports under the United Nations oil-for-food programme have been paid in euros since 2001.”
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro
“Suskind said O’Neill and other White House insiders gave him documents showing that in early 2001 the administration was already considering the use of force to oust Saddam, as well as planning for the aftermath.
“There are memos,” Suskind told the network. “One of them marked ‘secret’ says ‘Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq.\'” ”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/10/oneill.bush/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease
Plunging oil prices, soaring dollar. But! But! Glenn Beck has been telling me the opposite was going to happen. I’m distraught.
Me too, you know listening to Glen Beck will make your brain melt
Do people actually listen to Glenn Beck anymore, let alone take anything he says seriously?
The currency fall sucks for Russians. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia imposed capital controls soon; get your money out while you can.
This is much speculation as to the reasons behind the major geopolitical events of this year (Ukraine, ISIS, Maylasian Airliners, Chinese/Soviet De-dollarization schemes and now oil/financial war between Washington, Moscow, Riyadh, and US frackers). I haven’t followed Beck since he left his show but for a time he seemed to have a grasp on some reality. I found this article to be very informative even if one disagrees with some of the conclusions.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-17/russell-napier-oil-may-drop-25-chinese-demand-plunge-supply-glut-ageing-boomers?page=1
Yes, it’s been quite a year. I’m more and more convinced that this is the beginning of something that is going to be much bloodier and much nastier than anything the average American is pondering at the moment. When some 3rd World African Republic collapses economically, it’s something we can shrug off. When it happens to a heavily (and nuclear) armed, industrialized country, it tends to go very, very bad, especially if they’re looking to blame you for it.
Glen Beck never had any association with reality. Period.
Somebody must still buy his books, right???
Leaving Fox News to start your own channel. That seems like a good idea!
During the height of Cold War, vast majority of Russians were extremely positive about the US. They looked through government propaganda and were interested in American culture, movies, music, books, etc. During turbulent 80s and gloomy 90s America was the darling of the average Russian. Fast forward to 2014. The average Russian is constantly bombarded by government propaganda blaming the United States for everything. War propaganda is at its height — constant war movies, war shows, etc. An average Russian HATES the United States now, for the first time in history. They are very aggressive about it, too.
I am sure this newest development will be blamed on the United States.
“During the height of Cold War, vast majority of Russians were extremely positive about the US.”
Why was that, weren’t the Russian people subjected to anti-US propaganda during the cold war?
The difference is that they did not trust their government. Now Putin has 85%+ approval rating.
well then serves them right for putting their faith in a dictator like Putin. I have no sympathy for Russians, they’ve had plenty of opprtunities to get their act together and join the rank of true democracies. They seem to be happier living under a parade of buffoons.
Review a little bit of Russian history over the last 500 years. The love of Putin is nothing surprising.
I would not put too much trust into 85% approval ratings. If a Russian old enough to remember KGB and Soviet treatment of the dissidents gets a call with a question “Do you approve Putin?”, the answer is predictable. And this is the demographics (40+) that is most likely to own a land line phone and participate in phone surveys.
Heck take a look at a typical American news page, say Yahoo. They’ve been spamming all sorts of anti-Russian rhetoric bordering on war propaganda for months.
have you read the House resolution 758 that passed with overwhelming approval calling for arming Ukraine?
Mainstream media here STILL parrots the notion that Russia kicked off the 2008 war with Georgia, when every single independent analysis including the OSCE laid the blame squarely on Georgia for shelling the South Ossetian capital the night of August 7th, hitting Russian peacekeepers.
Sorry to bring up politics on TTAC, but war mongers the like of McCain who pose with known neo-nazis (not to mention ISIS members in Syria) have way too much credibility in our country.
All I see on Yahoo are factual news articles. I see no propaganda. In fact, no one in America cares about Russia or Ukraine. They are just not on the radar of an average person here.
Factual news articles with titles like “is Putin finished?” and an abnormal amount of articles detailing the latest, scariest Russian weapons systems?
I think no one in America caring would actually be wishful thinking. While the man on the street may not care, our politicians seem to care too much, and in all the wrong ways.
Yeah, Yahoo can be a little sensational. They also run stories like “Martian Batboy Discovered”
Really they finally found him? I wonder if he knows the Earthling Batboy.
2nd cousins on the Martian side of the family
2nd cousins on the Martian s1de of the family
It’s not just Yahoo. Every mainstream American news network has similar stories.
As for the ruble, ultimately the sanctions are a large part of the current devaluation of the ruble. If major companies and investors are blocked from spending their money, they will look at other places. This along with oil prices have caused a substantial drop, and is part of the US economic war we are waging. The problem with this strategy is that the end result will be Russians buying more domestic products. Their production will ramp up, and this will drastically hurt American companies like GM in the long run.
I posted something else which was eaten but gtemnykh I’m glad to see you’re paying attention.
Sad thing is they don´t even know about that, they have no alternatives to their mainstream media and no other source of information so than you have 25 years old US guys travelling to Europe and talking about bad Russia, bad Putin, but they don´t even know a thing about Russia, they know just what they heard as ,,facts,, in their media, this is so sad, this western anti-Putin propaganda is so sad that lately i can only laugh on it, i mean look at REUTers- which is supposed to be world leader in economy news and informations, every time they mentione Putin- former KGB spy… I wonder if BUsh was mentioned each time as former director of Central Intelligence Agency when something went wrong with his decisions and foreign policy
There was never any such thing as Russian “peacekeepers”, only armed intervention to enforce Russian dominance of the “near abroad”.
For whatever reason, Georgia seriously miscalculated in 2008, when it tried to reclaim territory effectively stolen from it by Russia. But the Russian occupation of South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine and Transnistria is not in any way benign.
First time in history? Woodrow Wilson sent troops to fight on the side of the tsar during the red revolution, before the U.S. joined WW1. Big mistake…the schools all spent a lot of time on that so when you make sweeping generalizations, keep in mind that over 100 years of self-absorbed (and stupid) foreign policy in the USA has consequences far beyond the idiots that implemented them, and certainly beyond the morons that elected those idiots.
Sorry about the tone, but it’s high time US politicians realize actions have consequences. Wilson’s stupidity certainly played a role in the Cold War, and nobody ever seems to teach this. So long as you’re spoon-fed propaganda in the guise of education, you’re bound to repeat the mistakes of the past.
Mission accomplished, indeed.
Yes, for the first time in history, most Russians hate America. Never happened before.
That’s too bad, they don’t even know us nor do we know them… politics as usual
A few details to be sorted. It wasn’t a unilateral action done by the United States. America was one of the 14 Allies that invaded after all the communist had disposed of the first Russian Republic. Reason: to prevent the communist from allowing the Germans to take supplies provided in part by the Allies.
The case could easily be made that if the Allies had succeeded in their would be more Russians in Russia. Stalin anyone.
Pure BS. Wilson did not authorize US intervention in Russia until July 1918 – more than a year after the US entered WWI, and while we were still fighting the Central Powers. This intervention was not unilateral, but part of a broader Allied intervention plan to defeat the Bolsheviks.
The Ruble recovered pretty well yesterday (17th.)
Source : http://russeurope.hypotheses.org/3163
Of course, there will another hectic attack around mid-January, but that will lead to another… TTAC post I guess, somehow. We’ll see then.
I read a nasty prediction that Putin will do something to avert his citizens attention from the economy. Probably envolving the military.
Nah… another topless photo session should do the trick.
Candied onions from hell.
That country deserves to be deleted for its architecture alone.
Did you see the latest on the interwebs, Stalin’s former dacha is for sale for $10 million USD? It’s opulence is only rivaled by what the former Russian royal family lived in. Most interesting digs for a Marxist
Anyone for Animal Farm?
Stalin was many things, but he was never a Marxist.
Sorry, forgot “/sarcasm”
I think it is going to be pretty difficult for the average Russian to do anything to change Putin’s course. The state controls the media so tightly, and popular protest/uprising would be crushed. I think the people around Putin are screaming for peace in Ukraine to stabilize the currency. So much of Russia’s public and private debt is denominated in foreign currency that having to pay in ruble will bankrupt the country in a year and western sanctions have locked Russia out of capital markets. Once foreign currency reserves are gone, its game over. In my opinion, the only thing that removes Putin is Russian default of national debt obligations or one of its State sponsored oil giants and it will be a house of cards that will bring about depression in Russia. The people will have not choice then.
You gotta admit though, it is a prefect storm for the Russian economy. Drastically lower oil prices, huge leaps in US Oil production, Our ally Saudi Arabia refusing to cut output to protect prices, strong dollar, western sanctions. It would be pretty easy to blame this on the US, to the point where you almost have to wonder if we did have any hand in it (which would be diabolically brilliant so probably not). Every force being exerted on Russia is dominated by the United States. Every country that is on its knees is one of our enemies. Russia, Venezuela, Iran. Nice coincidence.
” It would be pretty easy to blame this on the US, to the point where you almost have to wonder if we did have any hand in it (which would be diabolically brilliant so probably not)”
Golf clap
Yeah, great comment. And it poses the burning question…
“Who’s been Barry’s brain?”
I think Russians do blame the US for part of the current turmoil, at least what concerns the situation in the Ukraine. Our state department quite literally hand picked Yatsenuk and Co. (see Victoria Nuland “F the EU” leak), she later bragged in a public forum that the US has spent $5 billion in the last 20 years sponsoring NGOs there, fomenting a turnover to a non-Russian aligned government. It’s gotten so blatant that Biden’s son got a top post at a Ukrainian gas company not a month after the coup. With the US meddling so blatantly in Russia’s backyard, can you blame the Russians for getting mad?
Believe me, if China were fomenting insurrection in Mexico, trying to install a communist government that was vehemently opposed to good trade relations to the US, we’d be beyond livid.
This, my friends, is a perfect example of Russian propaganda talking.
This is exactly the bs Russian tv is broadcasting 24/7.
Yep.. “Always assume the role of the victim”
For yourself or for your adopted cause.
Care to prove me wrong? Is anything I said factually incorrect?
If you’re an American citizen you’re wrong.
If you’re not, go stay with your friends. Take a sweater, it can get chilly there.
Oh so as an American citizen I suppose I should’ve also supported Obama’s plan to bomb Syria, the chaos we created in Libya, and the war in Iraq? Good to know bud.
My family originates from Siberia and yes it gets quite chilly this time of year :)
Syria Schmyria… all those little infestations of Abrahamic tribes live to kill each other and don’t concern me.
Taking the s1de of a possible existential threat to this country, though, is beyond my personal pale.
Pete, I understand that you’re one of the more ‘mature’ commentators on here, and I understand where you’re coming from with the whole US-Soviet faceoff with nuclear weapons, and I respect that.
If it is of any reassurance, nobody at all in my extended family (let alone my family that is here) harbors ANY resentment towards Americans. Not now, not at the peak of the Cold War. They never had the desk drills in Soviet schools, Mao’s China was the much more real threat. My father grew up in the Far East and remembers train cars full of tanks being brought up to the border when skirmishes broke out. My grandparents, both ‘heroes of Soviet labor,’ resent the Soviet Union for spending all of the nation’s resources on propping up every two-bit dictator who said he was a commie, rather than taking care of their own. They’re regular people just like here. They don’t want to come across half a world away to harm anyone. But it seems that it is us here in the US that are constantly meddling over half a globe away, right on Russia’s border now. Let a sleeping bear lie. It’s never ended well for anyone that’s made Russia’s business their business, ask the Germans.
“you’re one of the more ‘mature’ commentators on here”
I want you to take a second and think about what you just typed there :-)
“Notorious troll” is more like it. On the other hand, if Pentastar is “venerable”, then “more mature” could be applicable under the same standard.
Yes, I can prove you wrong. And the only reason you are saying what you are saying is because you have been watching Channel 1.
You mention leaked Nuland-Pyatt call. Have you read the transcript yourself? Because if you read it yourself, without commentary by the Russian news, you will see that it does not mean that the US “hand picked Yatsenuk and Co.” Go read it. In English.
This is not the place to have this discussion. Also, I know it is pointless because you have already been brainwashed. Like all Russians.
“Have you read the transcript yourself? ”
Yes, in fact here’s a link to the BBC article:
link:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
Have YOU read the transcript? To me it reads like the US meddling directly in hashing out Ukraine’s leadership following the coup.
You have yet to have make a cogent point, and have instead resorted to screaming “propaganda! You’re a brainwashed Russian!” At the top of your lungs. I’ve noticed that this seems to be the pretty standard response. For your information I read everything across the board, from Yahoo pseudo tabloids to Fox news to Al Jazeera to “Vesti” and “Lenta” to Der Speiegel, and a whole lot of raw war footage that gets uploaded to youtube.
It’s a lost cause and TTAC is not the proper channel to discuss this.
“To me it reads like the US meddling directly in hashing out Ukraine’s leadership following the coup.”
That comment would suggest that you need to read more carefully.
Frankly, I would be really impressed if the United States could organize tens of thousands of people and brainwash them so that they would brave the cold and the bullets to oppose a Russian puppet.
But sadly, I know that we’re not that good. So I am forced to conclude that the Maidan was a legitimate homegrown uprising, not some fantastic CIA plot that could transform so many Ukrainians into servants for American interests.
gtemnykh
For US citize you are surprisingly realistic, that good to see and agree with you this site is for cars not geopolitical issues between US and RF
+1
+100
@gtemnykh
I’m glad to see you’ve been paying attention. I can’t speak for the East, but the West is run by complete sociopaths and psychopath with an opaque agenda.
“Believe me, if China were fomenting insurrection in Mexico, trying to install a communist government that was vehemently opposed to good trade relations to the US, we’d be beyond livid.”
Nonsense the administration would welcome this with open arms and perhaps leverage it to the advantage. The fact the president has not been removed over the border disaster says to me: Congress is unwilling to act per its checks and balances, the military is unwilling or unable to arrest him, and the people are unwilling to properly revolt. Hell this recent “republican” spending bill is simply more evidence we live under one party rule in the US.
“It would be pretty easy to blame this on the US, to the point where you almost have to wonder if we did have any hand in it (which would be diabolically brilliant so probably not).”
Well it would be the *only* correct foreign policy move in nearly seven years of Obamanation and since Hillary Clinton was *not* involved, maaaaybe its possible. I have many questions, but chief among them: 1. Why was Iraq allowed to be balkanized and 2. Why did ISIL drive their brand new Toyota pickups around with flags on their hoods during the initial occupation? You see, US drones and satellites would be watching and ISIL has/had no airwing.
I have no doubt WWIII is underway though folks, I’m not sure when it started but either Libya or Syria was the first significant opening move, followed by the initial Ukraine revolt (backed by the West), then the Crimea occupation, then the Western backed ethnic cleansing in Eastern Ukraine to try and draw out the Soviets, and now this. I also just read the Israelis want to built a nat gas pipeline through Turkey to compete with Gazprom, which is a huge development since Syria was partially being fought over a proposed Qatari/Saudi nat gas pipeline also to send gas to Europe. Get your popcorn ready for the Kremlin’s next move.
But, but this was suppose to happen 54 years ago in Cuba, we were ready, we had “duck and cover” drills at school, my mother made a makeshift bomb shelter in our basement, we sat in our living room night after night watching the news, biting our nails waiting for the end…
Didn’t happen
I went though those drills in the late 80s as well. WWIII doesn’t necessarily have to end in a nuclear exchange. Economic warfare is currently the methodology being employed.
You devastate a nuclear power economically and see how fast they dust off those nukes
Hell, *our* nukes are groty and corrodey, can you imagine the state of the Russians’?
They probably look like one of Murilee’s ’90s Hondas.
@Lie2me
They did it to them in the 80s and we’re still here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s_oil_glut
We’re here because of Stan Petrov. That launch-on-warning sh1t was scary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
+1 petezeiss and a +infinity to Petrov.
Able Archer was another doozy.
It’ll all happen through computers and we probably won’t know it’s happening until we end up back in the dark ages
That is a distinct possibility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_%28nuclear_war%29
If anyone survives then this:
http://www.amazon.com/World-Made-Hand-A-Novel/dp/0802144012
That’s exactly what I was referring to
The collapse of the Russian economy notwithstanding,why are you picturing a Chevy Captiva (ne Saturn Vue). . . things cant be that bad in Russia (?)
So Russia is led by a crook who for some unknown reason is highly popular at home (I don’t presume to understand the average Russian’s mentality), and is run economically by other crooks, all of whom keep their money in foreign banks in foreign currency. As each stage of sanctions have bitten, we are now reaching the stage where individual bank accounts are being frozen. If they haven’t been already.
The crooks running Russia couldn’t care less about the average citizen, other than regarding them as one of the pawns on their chessboard, but they sure can get upset when their own offshore bank accounts become difficult or impossible to access. Tolerable while oil prices stayed high – just keep more of your money at home and only exchange it when needed, but 50% of the Russian budget revenue is oil and gas royalties, so things are getting real tight.
The currency plunges, and the crooks are feeling the chill. They have a pliant population for the immediate future so are really quite dangerous, in the sense of back to the wall, we’ve got nothing to lose mentality. They can’t get their hands on their foreign money bank accounts. If things don’t ease, there will be a fight.
Not so good for the rest of us.
Not that I disagree but this is equally true:
So the US is led by a crook who for some unknown reason is still in power at home and is run economically by other crooks, all of whom keep their money in foreign banks in foreign currency.
KGB runs Russia, I’m not sure which clique or cliques is calling the shots in the West (I imagine there are several) but they are equally evil.
“but they are equally evil”
Well, to be fair I can’t recall any American reporters killed in America for having been critical of the present American government. We’re not there quite yet.
I know you’re not naive enough to believe reporters have never been disappeared for political reasons in this country.
Then you have veteran reporters such as Sharyl Attkinson who claim MSM deliberately totes the WH lies, er line. Maybe she’s just got an axe to grind, or maybe not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharyl_Attkisson
There are many examples of people who “knew too much” and suddenly disappeared or committed a mysterious suicide or who’s brakes on their new car failed, not just reporters. I’m not a “tin foil hat” type person, but I’m also not an idiot
Oven-Tempered for Flexible Strength!
Every wacko knows colanders are much more comfortable and offer superior 4G reception
You two guys:
http://tinyurl.com/lc3gfx3
Ooh, the new Apple iWacko 6, I like
28-Cars-Later, if you “know” that reporters have “disappeared for political reasons in this country”, please provide names, places and dates, along with evidence. Otherwise, what you’re say is just paranoid delusion.
In my career, I’ve done business on the ground in almost 50 countries, on 6 continents. I’ve seen controlled news environments, in many different place and in many different ways.
There is no comparison between the controlled news structures that exist in too many countries (including Russia) and the genuinely free press that exists in Western countries. None at all.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Lie2me, if there are so “many examples of people who “knew too much” and suddenly disappeared or committed a mysterious suicide or who’s brakes on their new car failed, not just reporters”, please tell us names, paces and dates.
As we continue to see, in a free society it’s virtually impossible to keep this sort of thing secret. From the Pentagon Papers to Wikileaks to Snowden, there are simply too many people who have access to this info, and who will happily spill the beans.
ect, I appreciate your political awareness, but I come here to talk about cars. If I’m going to do research to prove a point or back-up a claim of fact it’ll involve horsepower, cubic inches or torque output and not the political mysteries of our time
I wish you thought you knew as much about cars as you think you know about foreign policy then the debate could be fun, but you don’t seem to want to comment about them
Lie2me, I respectfully submit that a great many of you posts have little or nothing to do with cars, and I generally quite enjoy them.
I may also point out that the post I was responding to had nothing to do with cars, either.
My knowledge of cars is mostly to do with the marketplace, and my personal driving experiences – both of which I comment on. I freely confess that my technical/mechanical knowledge is quite limited, so I learn things on TTAC that I didn’t know. It’s all good.
Oh come on, there is no comparison between the Soviet kleptocracy in Russia and any government in the West. Your rant is a paranoid delusion.
It’s interesting that so many car lovers are anti-Russian or Putin-haters.
The US instigated the Mexican-American War in 1848 and took the Southwest from Mexico. A few years before that, the Russians fought the Turks and took the Crimea. It’s theirs.
The Ukraine and Russia are culturally so close that the Ukraine’s existence as a separate country is something of an anomaly.
The US and the West instigated the Ukranian break-up. Why should any Russian let fellow Russians live under a Ukranian govt?
Instead of complaining about the the splinter in Putin’s eye, how about the log in our own?
We have the NSA monitoring us. Our govt is drowning in so much debt that the vast majority of today’s children will be condemned to a life of declining living standards.
Here in Michigan our roads are falling apart. Nationwide, the bridges are.
The average American man makes less now than he did in 1973.
Our society is riddled with drug addiction. Our inner cities are disaster areas.
Instead of hounding Putin for the benefit of the defense industry, and even more so, the top 0.1% financiers, why don’t we get our govt to get our house in order.
BTW, lest you think I’m Russian–I’m a cold war/Desert Storm vet. And from where I sit, the Russian leader is playing his cards better than ours–this face-off with the Russian will ultimately cost the average American more than the average Russian. Not only do we have more to lose, we as a people are softer than the Russians. When push comes to shove, the Russians are fighting and sacrificing for THEIR country. Americans today are sacrificing for far-away lands–and very few of them are willing to send their sons to fight.
Now we have some balance here:)
“we as a people are softer than the Russians”
You must not go the the same web sites I do. They may look a little Kruschev-y, but they got TOP. And back.
As I grow older and wiser (libertarian) the words of George Washington’s farewell address becomes more and more poignant. http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/24183/david-fromkin/entangling-alliances
+1 Tom.
BTW I sincerely hope the Russians aren’t buying that Opel Antares Chevy Captiva crap box thinking that it is some kind of hard asset, sheeeesh…..
> The US instigated the Mexican-American War in 1848 and took the Southwest from
> Mexico. A few years before that, the Russians fought the Turks and took the Crimea. It’s theirs.
Perfect example. Many Spanish-speaking people live in the Southwest. Now imagine that Mexico invades the Southwest to “protect Spanish-speaking population” from “English neo-fascists” and to take back “historically Mexican territory.” THAT is the exact equivalent of what Russia has done with Crimea.
> The Ukraine and Russia are culturally so close that the Ukraine’s existence
> as a separate country is something of an anomaly.
Ukraine is the cradle of Russian civilization. Its people are more Russian than the Russians themselves. Ukraine has been toyed with since the thirteenth century, occupied by a succession of foreign powers. People of Ukraine have a strong will for independence from Russia or anyone else. Russia is not their daddy.
> The US and the West instigated the Ukranian break-up.
This is not true. Millions of people protested in Kiev against the corrupt Russian-loyal government. Common people instigated the Ukrainian break-up.
> Why should any Russian let fellow Russians live under a Ukranian govt?
Ukraine is a multinational, multicultural society. The Ukrainian government is not ethnically uniform. In fact, Yatsenuk is a nice Jewish boy from an “intelligencia” family of college professors. Poroshenko is another nice Jewish boy from Odessa. Many of the alleged “neo-fascists” or “nationalists” in the Ukrainian government are Jews, Russians, Tatars, etc. Russians who live in Ukraine do not want to live under a corrupt puppet regime loyal to the Russian kleptocracy.
>Instead of hounding Putin for the benefit of the defense industry…
Nailed it.
North Korea, Syria, Russia, ISIS, hackers, and MORE.
And I’m sure that the average Russian feels paranoid as well.
NO wonder we (I) drink too much.
Makes one wonder what malevolent creature is pulling the strings… I guess I’ll get some religion back, that way I can give that creature a name.
This currency situation could be a plus for their local auto manufacturing.Those plants can no longer afford to import parts.They either get locally sourced parts or shut down due to operating costs.
This thread is about cars, but 90% of you guys talking about Russia-Putin-politics – amazing…. and sadly 70-80% at least have no idea what are they talking about, because just know ,,100% accurate,, facts from their mainstream media – no matter which country.
I for once will talk to subject here – i think this rouble problem is just temporary, already today and yesterday RUB became stronger vs USD and EUR. I think it can help Lada right now, they probably don´t import much components from abroad so they can produce from mostly russian parts and pay in RUB, but we will see when AEBRUS.RU will release new stats for December at 10th or so January.
About whole Putin phobia in western countries – it´s called Cognitive dissonance – it means people can´t accept or are discomforted when they need to accept new information which is opposite of their beliefs or what they think is right
People here saying there is huge russian PR and progaganda, yes there is, but those same people don´t even realize there is the same anti-russian propaganda in western – so called worldwide – international media i can see this in my country in Slovakia we are EU and NATO country so anti-russian propaganda it´s so sad to see all those articles and ,,facts,, bashing Russia left-right every day at least people here have some knowledge about circumstances and situation, but poor people in the US, they have no alternative media, just anti-russian basically every channel there is is anti-russian, it´s pathetic in every article there is is mentinoed Putin is former KGB spy, i wonder if such thing was always mentioned with Bush senior, when he was US presidenet that he was former CIA operative- director… probably not mentioned each time for obvious reasons,,
There is a vast difference between reportage by a free press in the West, and blatant propaganda by state-controlled Russian media.
Russia has blatantly violated the commitment it made in the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, has blatantly stolen Crimea, and blatantly intervenes in Ukraine to destabilize that country. And blatantly lies about it.
That’s not propaganda, it’s reality, and free people everywhere have a right to say so.
You think 1 day’s trading signals a recovery of the rouble? We’ll see, but however you look at it, Russia’s economy is heading for a world of hurt.
You are right there is difference – 1st one is official 2nd one is unofficial – it´s even worse , people like you believing there is free press or choice and so on – yes there is maybe some blogs and regional newspaper but the main big ones – TV channels, biggest newspapers by circulations, biggest websites – they all are anti-russian on purpose, not because ,,free press,, can say what they can, yes sure they can say what they want but not if it´s about Russia, it´s almsot impossible to get something pro-Russian on main US media and if you think it´s because there is just nothing good about Russia than there is no point to argue with you. just example – MH17 was down what 1-2hours and already Poroshenko was on CNN saying how bad Russia was responsible – i don´t know who is responsible which side, but fact is it was used as tool immediately without any proof and informations – that´s just example of what i mean, you think there is free media, i say no there are few big groups – media groups, people behind who own them and they cooperate in this anti-russian course there is no choice if you live in the US just to hear every day how bad Putin and Russia is if you don´t call that propaganda i don´t get you
This thread is about cars, but 90% of you guys talking about Russia-Putin-politics – amazing…. and sadly 70-80% at least have no idea what are they talking about, because just know ,,100% accurate,, facts from their mainstream media – no matter which country.
I for once will talk to subject here – i think this rouble problem is just temporary, already today and yesterday RUB became stronger vs USD and EUR. I think it can help Lada right now, they probably don´t import much components from abroad so they can produce from mostly russian parts and pay in RUB, but we will see when AEBRUS.RU will release new stats for December at 10th or so January.
About whole Putin phobia in western countries – it´s called Cognitive dissonance – it means people can´t accept or are discomforted when they need to accept new information which is opposite of their beliefs or what they think is right
People here saying there is huge russian PR and progaganda, yes there is, but those same people don´t even realize there is the same anti-russian propaganda in western – so called worldwide – international media i can see this in my country in Slovakia we are EU and NATO country so anti-russian propaganda it´s so sad to see all those articles and ,,facts,, bashing Russia left-right every day at least people here have some knowledge about circumstances and situation, but poor people in the US, they have no alternative media, just anti-russian basically every channel there is is anti-russian, it´s pathetic in every article there is is mentinoed Putin is former KGB spy, i wonder if such thing was always mentioned with Bush senior, when he was US presidenet that he was former CIA operative- director… probably not mentioned each time for obvious reasons,
VVK’s Southwest/Mexico analogy is disingenuous. The vast majority of the people of the Crimea wanted to be in Russia. It was a Russian area that an illegitimate (ie Communist Kruschev) “gave” to the “Soviet Republic of Ukraine”. Putin was right to take it.
Russians are overwhelmingly Orthodox. Ukranians are split between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox (though who know how many observant ones of either…).
Granting VVK’s point that the Ukraine is the cradle of Russia, if the are “more Russian than Russians”, they should not have seceded during the break-up. They did.
If the Russian speaking minority (and my understanding is that Russian and Ukranian are very close languages) wishes to join the mother country, why not?
The Ukraine owes Russia a lot of money.
The reality is, the same big financiers who brought us the 2008-9 Financial Crisis/Recession/Depression see a chance to add even more lucrative debt to a hurting country. They largely dictate US financial policy (did Obama touch Wall St? No. Would Romney? No. Hillary? No.), and have mobilized the US Govt to further their aims.
Easy money has made the 0.1% incredibly wealthy, while making lives for most Americans more difficult, and making lives for Southern Europeans, who like heroin addicts that took near-free easy dope (debt), almost unbearable.
Putin is right not to go along, and not to be pushed around.
He can make life very difficult for us–we need the Russians help to resupply our troops in Afghanistan, since we can’t go thru Iran or Paki. Maybe Putin will do as a favor and cut us off, so we can get out and save lives and money.
Nixon managed to pry China and the USSR apart, to the USSR’s detriment. The US govt will push them together, to our detriment. Russian energy for Chinese finished goods.
It’s not smart for the US–at least not for the 99.9% who won’t make tens of billions of exotic financian instruments that they don’t understand.
It may be good for defense workers and defense companies. Of course, that won’t help with our crumbling roads or whopping entitlement payments…
> VVK’s Southwest/Mexico analogy is disingenuous. The vast majority of the people
> of the Crimea wanted to be in Russia. It was a Russian area that an illegitimate
> (ie Communist Kruschev) “gave” to the “Soviet Republic of Ukraine”. Putin was
> right to take it.
No so. *According to Russian news outlets*, most people of Crimea wanted to be in Russia. The so called referendum has not been accepted as legitimate by anyone outside of the Russian Federation.
“The Venice Commission declared that the referendum was illegal under both Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions, and violated international standards and norms.”
“Many scholars and politicians[who?] have stated that the referendum was conducted under the cover of assault rifles and, thus, the result was obtained through violence.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014#Alternative_estimates_of_results
>>The vast majority of the people of the Crimea wanted to be in Russia
How do you know? Even the Russian committee for the human rights admitted that at best 30% of Crimeans wanted to join Russia.
Crimea was part of Russia for shorter period of time then Finland, Poland or, for that matter, Alaska.
More nonsense. There is no evidence that the people of Crimea wanted to join Russiam], and significant evidence that they didn’t.
In the end, it didn’t matter, because Russia invaded (in direct violation of their treaty pledge to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty)and then held a bogus referendum to try to justify their action.
“the same big financiers who brought us the 2008-9 Financial Crisis/Recession/Depression see a chance to add even more lucrative debt to a hurting country”. Please, that’s simply stupid.
The Imperial Russian/Soviet Black Seas Fleet has been based out of Crimea since 1783. This would not have happened in Crimea was not considered Russian territory by St. Petersburg/Moscow. Finland was part of the Swedish Empire until 1809 and both it and the modern state of Poland did not exist until 1918 (Poland having existed twice before in the previous thousand years and being partitioned) Seward’s Folly took place in 1867, thus the establishment of the BSF predates all three things you cited and predates Alaska and the Finnish Duchy of the Russian Empire in 1810 (one could make arguments about the previous incarnations of Poland).
“The Black Sea Fleet is considered to have been founded by Prince Potemkin on May 13, 1783, together with its principal base, the city of Sevastopol.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet
“The Alaska Purchase was the acquisition of Russian America by the United States from the Russian Empire in 1867 by a treaty ratified by the U.S. Senate.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase
“From the late 12th century until 1809, Finland was part of Sweden, a legacy reflected in the prevalence of the Swedish language and its official status. It then became the Grand Duchy of Finland, an autonomous duchy within the Russian Empire, until the Russian Revolution which prompted the Finnish Declaration of Independence.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland
So, what is your point?
In 1994, Ukraine (which then had the third largest nuclear weapons inventory in the world) agreed to give up the nuclear weapons it had inherited from the Soviet Union and sign the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. In return, the nuclear powers of the day – including Russia – agreed to guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine, a pledge that was enshrined in the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.
Russia has now blatantly violated that pledge, and its government has consistently lied about its actions to subvert Ukraine’s territorial integrity and destabilize the country.
As the meerkats say, “Simples”. Why do you find this so hard to understand?
The West also agreed to respect the Russian sphere of influence after 1991, and instead inducted nearly all of the old Warsaw pact states into NATO alone with the Baltics in less than twenty five years. Both sides here have broken promises.
Another interesting sidebar is the cancelled US Dept of the Navy contract from 2013 issued to renovate a school in Sevastopol. What this was really about I can’t tell you, but what the US Navy was doing in Sevastopol, where it has no presence, and just happens to be the HQ of BSF as well as being the only Soviet warm water port, is certainly intriguing. Seems like the Navy was beginning to setting up shop in Moscow’s backyard.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=2bb691b61c59be3a68180bd8c614a0cb&tab=core&_cview=1