In his QOTD a few days back, Doug DeMuro had this to say about his father’s decision to buy a Camry:
“He wasn’t the BMW type. He wasn’t cool enough. Back then, few were.”
Doug is a tad younger than I am, so his father was apparently in his forties back in the Nineties. My father wasn’t cool enough in the Nineties, either—he was cool enough when LL Cool J was still rocking a red Kangol and Don Johnson was making pastels look masculine.
Before Bush 41 even took the oath, my dad had long been rolling in the deep with the boys from Bavaria. He bought a 320i and a 733i when his neighbors were still representing Cadillac. In many ways, he was a metrosexual long before the word ever had meaning—he wore Armani suits when gray flannel still dominated the workplace. He exercised religiously long before fitness was considered an indicator of success, maintaining a 5’10” and 165 pound frame that allowed him to easily beat my friends and me in basketball even as we were winning high school state titles.
However, it was the cars that made him coolest in the eyes of my friends. Dad was always at the leading edge of what was hip on four wheels. A poll in 1983 asked Americans what their dream car was—over 70 percent responded that they aspired to own a Lincoln Town Car. It was the symbol of success in America. So, naturally, my dad went out and got one, resplendent in baby blue. He parked it in our garage right next to his MG Midget, which was a gorgeous sunrise yellow. He was 36 years old, and already had his dream garage.
But he wasn’t satisfied. He never kept a car for more than 24 months, and often much less. During the years of my childhood that I can remember, he had an Audi 100, a Jaguar Vanden Plas, a Nissan Maxima (back when that was considered a serious Bimmer fighter), a Lexus ES 250, and many others. He bought one of the first Infiniti J30s in America, and then bought another one for his wife. When I totaled my 944, I got to drive his pimped-out, gold-badged QX4 for a few months. I used to borrow his Range Rover when I was in college when I really wanted to impress a girl on a date.
He returned to the BMW brand in recent years, with both an E60 and E90 in his garage for a while, before making somewhat of a change to the Mercedes brand for a spell. After his last Merc was stolen from his gym’s parking lot, he decided to buy what I consider to be the best-in-class Grand Cherokee.
He was and is a different sort of car guy. He never turned a single wrench on a car or a single lap on a race track. He still wanted his cars to be practical—he never bought the Corvette he dreamed of for much of his life. I almost had him talked into a 350Z roadster once, until he saw the trunk space. He got so mad at his J30 for getting stuck in the snow once that he drove it immediately to the dealership and traded it on that QX4, likely taking a huge depreciation hit along the way.
Why do I tell you all of this? Because I think all of us owe our love of cars to somebody. I learned early on in life that having a cool car makes you different. It sets you apart. I’ve been accused many, many times by the B&B of being a bit image conscious when it comes to cars, and I don’t deny that I am. I can trace it back to seeing the look on my friends’ faces when my dad would drop me off somewhere in his latest and greatest European ride. I was lucky enough that he extended his love of cars to the cars he bought me, as well—a brand-new Jetta, an Infiniti G20, and my ill-fated 944.
So maybe that’s why I have always bought new, why I never keep a car past its third birthday. I also learned what I’d didn’t want to do from him—it’s why I have gone a little impractical with some of my purchases, so that I never have to say I eschewed the car I really wanted because it didn’t have four doors.
So even though you didn’t do it deliberately, thanks, Dad. if you had bought a cloth-seat Camry, I’m guessing I wouldn’t be working the numbers on a Shelby GT350 as we speak, despite the fact that my Boss hasn’t seen a third anniversary.
Wait a second. Maybe I shouldn’t be thanking you, after all. Ahh, what the hell. Of course I should be.
“A poll in 1983 asked Americans what their dream car was—over 70 percent responded that they aspired to own a Lincoln Town Car. It was the symbol of success in America. So, naturally, my dad went out and got one”
“I learned early on in life that having a cool car makes you different. It sets you apart.”
These things don’t go together. Having a 70% America-approved symbol of success is very much blending in, doing what’s expected of you in your car purchases.
You inherited your vanity from your father, and probably the image-consciousness to go along with it from your mother – who picked at her children and found fault constantly (and maybe a bit from your father, who kept handing you nice cars.)
I also always recall this tid-bit from one of Jack’s stories:
“In this era children were still expected to shut up and stand behind their parents. Rarely did anybody mention that perhaps I shouldn’t be doing this stuff. Once I took a Mercedes 380SL out of Park, just to learn about the then-unusual shifter configuration; it began to roll softly across the dealership carpet. The salesman began to shout; my father stared him down and I got the Benz stopped before it bumped the ever-present metallic-red 240D that made up the bulk of their inventory.”
There’s that entitlement again. How dare a dealer shout at his child, who was messing with a car where he shouldn’t have been, and about to wreck a very expensive new Mercedes.
“over 70 percent responded that they aspired to own a Lincoln Town Car.”
This was a goal not a fact. He wasn’t “blending in” he was living the dream, big difference
Some of us will never know what receiving a car as a gift is like.
Some do, some don’t, neither makes the other a better or worse person
So having things handed to you doesn’t make you image-conscious? You don’t feel you “deserve” those things, and are “used to” them – so when you do not have the latest/greatest you feel inferior? Your sense of self was built around the things you had and how people viewed you because of said things.
Just look at teenagers who were handed everything. They expect as a given later that the same will happen. If it doesn’t, it’s traumatic.
Are you suggesting that kids who grow up in homes where they were given things because the family could afford to give them things automatically become spoiled monsters?
Maybe some kids are taught responsibility along with the privileges their families can afford
Not automatically, per say. But at a much higher percentage than those who don’t.
And I don’t care who you are, silencing a car dealer because your child is about to wreck a vehicle in a showroom isn’t responsible parenting.
Corey-
My daughter is two, but if she was 16, I would give her a car. It would either be a low mileage Focus lease ($171/month with $0 down for me), or I would purchase an early D-platform FoMoCo boat (no-CVT).
There are expectations and requirements that come with something like a car, but I’d rather she drive something new and safe, and focus on school work and sports/school activities than have to work to buy a beater POS. Have you seen what $1500-$2000 buys in a car these days? Not what it used to.
Granted, if my daughter is putting cars into nuetral on a dealership floor, I hope the sales manager yells at her.
A Focus lease or an old Sable is far different from the things in the article!
Why not just get her a CPO Boxster?
“My daughter is two, but if she was 16, I would give her a car.”
I plan on giving my kids cars to drive just so they don’t wreck any of my good ones. They can choose from any of the heaps behind the shop. In fact, they seem to have already. There’s a LeMons racer donor Sebring with a bunch of now-broken interior sh1t.
Hahaha. We can turn this into a Jalopnik article. “What luxury car or sports car for under $15,000 should I buy my 16 year old daughter?”
Ooooooo, how about an S4 with no warranty!!!! What could go wrong?!?!?!
Danio-
The reason why I would lean towards a Focus lease is that we only have two cars now, and the Focus lease would only cost me less than $4800 in payments over two years. Then, when she goes to college, I could just get rid of the car.
“Why buy a new Civic when you can have this SL500 for less?”
“What luxury car or sports car for under $15,000 should I buy my 16 year old daughter?”
Oh man, totally an X108 Jaguar XJR. I’d end up borrowing it from them!
X308?
>> Some of us will never know what receiving a car as a gift is like.
Don’t give up! There’s always seekingarrangements.com!
“Some of us will never know what receiving a car as a gift is like.”
Car guys tend to put an undue emphasis on kids receiving a car, because for us there is a lot of meaning behind a car, it’s a big deal in our lives, etc. For most parents who have a decent amount of coin, it’s an investment in freedom and lack of headache. When my wife and her two sisters turned driving age, my FIL either gave them one of his many cast-off 2-3y/o company cars (’95 and ’01 Grand Cherokee), or in the case of my wife, dragged her to the Jeep dealer and bought her a new Cherokee off the showroom floor. Why? “So I don’t have to worry about or deal with their cars. It shouldn’t break, and if it does they take it to the dealer and the dealer fixes it. I don’t have to worry about it.” And he also didn’t have to worry about driving them around for activities, sports, off to college, etc. My parents were in the “you buy your own stupid car if you want one” camp until I effectively took one of theirs all summer the first year I had my license, and then they wisely decided it was easier for everyone if they helped me buy my own crap box to drive at first, and then bought me a nice CPO Civic upon HS graduation. If you can’t afford it you can’t afford it, but if you can, and most white collar people can, it really is no different than giving your kid a cell phone and a laptop for your own convenience and for them to use while they go to school.
Chris,
For old times sake I wish that were still true.
Here in Ontario Canada, I can get a nice used car for about $8k or new Hyundai (standard transmission only) for under $12k (plus tax).
However to give it to one of the kids would then cost from $3k to $6k per year (depending on age and gender) in mandatory insurance.
Remember most kids don’t wrench and the days of making most repairs to modern cars in the driveway generally ended when mechanics became electrical technicians.
So add in maintenance and insurance and the cost of a kid having a car starts to run much too high for the average white collar family.
Yes, it could be done back in the day but that is now past.
Canada insurance is nuts. Fortunately, I have a daughter, so those are cheap to insure. If, God willing, she likes cars she’ll get something interesting we can play with together. If she doesn’t, I’ll lease her a base CR-V for $250/mo or whatever, which is about what I pay for a cell phone bill. About the only “advantage” to paying $1500/mo for daycare is that any other kid-related cost you throw at me is cheap in comparison (aside from college, which will be paid for by re-directing that $1500/mo into a 529 for 10 years when she hits kindergarden).
@Arthur Daily
Why is insurance in Canada so insanely expensive? Even in notoriously expensive parts of the US (MA, NY, NJ), it doesn’t seem to be anywhere near as bad. Where I am in Maine, it is just plain cheap.
When I was a kid, there wasn’t even a separate charge for me, I was just covered under my folks policy as long as the car was not in my name. Which didn’t happen until I was out of college. I don’t know if this is still the case, but I have never heard of anyone around here having car-payment size insurance bills for a kid unless the kid had a seriously terrible driving record or a DUI.
“Canada insurance is nuts.”
It varies by province. A LOT. In Saskatchewan, a 16-year-old male with a clean record can insure a 2015 Corvette Z06 for $1723 per year. I have the maximum possible discount due to my safe driving record so it would be $1378 for me. Age and gender are not factors.
An interesting regional thing – in my experience, parents in the Midwest are MUCH more likely to buy their kid a new car or nearly new car. Parents in New England, even VERY wealthy ones, will hand something down, or buy the kid a very used car at best. Was true when I was in high school, and still very much true now, 30 years later.
The daughter of the president of LL Bean was in my HS class, and drove a ratty Escort. Her father could probably have bought her a small country… There was one kid who did occasionally drive his Dad’s Ferrari to school, but “his” car was a hand-me-down baby-poop brown Volvo wagon. Which was pretty much the official car of my high school. I went to a VERY wealthy school, and I can’t think of a single kid who ever got a new car.
If I had a kid, I would get them something safe (enough) and slow, and cheap, like a Volvo 940. Kids generally wreck their first cars, why get them anything too nice?
I prefer to hand a car down or buy a cheap used car, but lease prices are so dang low that it can make more sense. The lease payment, insurance, and gas is all I’d have to worry about before college.
My eldest starts driving next year. She’ll be getting something that is a 2012 model at the earliest. I don’t have time to mess around with an older car, especially since we’ll have three of them at that point, and I want her to have up to date safety equipment.
If you have to pay retail prices for maintenance and repairs, you don’t save that much by driving an old car. Buy a newer modestly priced car instead.
Approx $250 is my magic number for A QUALITY vehicle.
I’d rather own ANY vehicle than lease by a factor of 100x, generally speaking, but if a DESIRABLE vehicle can be leased on a $0 down, no BS, short term lease for around $250 per month – which is very rare – it could be a go.
As it is, owning a fun, good vehicle – one that I can be happy with for 6 to 12 years – purchased for 26ishK to 35ishK costs me between $140 and $200 a month now, after being purchased new, driven for that rough time frame, and resold (depreciation tends to slow dramatically in year 7, and stop in year 10).
Some have this far more perfected than I, buying quality used vehicles and breaking even or even making money on them, after driving them for several years and reselling them (think in demand vehicles like those that are great, no longer made, or whose successors suck dramatically worse from an enthusiast’s perspective).
DW-
A few Ford dealers in Metro Detroit are leasing the Focus SE for around $175/month with $0 down on a 24 month lease. Ford doesn’t charge a lease turn in fee either. You can get a manual for that price too.
@Former FF
I’m much too cheap to pay someone to do much of anything I can do myself. Be that car repairs, home improvements, or whatever. But if you aren’t handy (or just don’t want to), I certainly feel you on this one.
I long ago learned that the secret to happiness when driving older cars is to have one more than you actually need. Then on the rare occasion something does need to be fixed but it can’t be done immediately for whatever reason, it is not a big deal. Still cheaper than having one newer car, if TCO is very important to you. And newer cars break too.
I grew up in upper middle class CT (SE CT, not Greenwich CT) and it was about 25% new/newish Japanese sedans, 25% family hand me downs, 25% $2k crap boxes and 25% no car. I was in the crapbox club until graduation when I got to the newish Japanese sedan club.
There was also a difference based on college; smart kids could go to UCONN nearly free and they might get a nice new car, but lots of us went to $$$ private schools and then it’s tough to get both. I got the new car only when my ROTC scholarship was confirmed.
Seriously?
Sure, Sugar Daddies are always the answer, right?
That was fun. Do it again, only with more bitterness and envy!
>>>A poll in 1983 asked Americans what their dream car was—over 70 percent responded that they aspired to own a Lincoln Town Car.
Oh, now we’re dissing Sajeev, are we? Calling him a fossil?
Not Sajeev, just his car
Sounds like your dad is a little slow in the head when it comes to finances. He must be up to his eyeballs in debt from buying new cars every 2 years! Looks like you are well on your way down the same stupid road.
Why would you say this? Maybe his dad and a lot of dads (mine included) could simply afford to change cars every two years. This story was about dads and cool cars, not an opportunity to critique someone’s finances
“Why would you say this?”
Because he jelly.
Yeah, I know, but he shouldn’t say stuff like that because it makes him look like that internet troll meme guy
“Y U say that?”
What a stupid comment.
My old man could buy a new car for cash every six months if he wanted to and the family would have never known the difference nor would his retirement been any different. Had no affect on my life, it’s his dough not mine to do with as he chose.
I don’t understand this logic. If all anyone cared about was a purchase making financial sense, all we would be driving would be Toyota Corollas. If that’s your thing fine, but why rag on someone else for buying what they want? Did it make financial sense to buy my Miata? No. Does it put a smile on my face everytime I get behind the wheel? Yes. What’s life without some fun?
“He was a good man. He never smoked, drank had no affair.
When he died, the insurance company refused the claim.
They said, he who never lived, cannot die!
– Unknown”
@Mbella
We would all be driving USED Corollas. With crank windows and no A/C, because those luxuries will spoil us, and going without builds character.
We couldn’t buy used Corollas, because everyone’s super frugality would prevent any sort of used car market.
Agree with Lie2me. The way I see it, we would all like to spend our discretionary income on things we love to do. His dad just happens to have more of it than other people.
As car people, we have it pretty good as it doubles as transportation.
Beats spending it on gambling and hookers
Speak for yourself ;-)
Hookers and BLOW man, the house always wins when you gamble!
“Beats spending it on gambling and hookers”
Yep! Dad spent his fair share on cars, but as truly profligate spending goes, nothing beats a boat. He bought a 26-footer, then stepped up to a twin-engine, twin-screw 32 foot Trojan that he had no f**king idea how to drive. And keep in mind we lived in St. Louis, so the only place to run the thing (expensively) was on the Mississippi, which was only navigable during the summer. So, we’d spend summer days out on the world’s dirtiest river, with heat indexes approaching 1000 degrees Kelvin. We fished once, but gave it up when the fish we caught resembled something from Qo’noS (that’s the Klingon homeworld for you non-Trekkers).
(Full disclosure: the thing also had A/C, which made it into a handy hotel once I started having “real” relationships with girls…but that’s another story.)
And, Lord, was that thing expensive. The upkeep was a small fortune, but its’ true money-wasting talent was its’ fuel usage, which was roughly comparable to something with “United Airlines” painted on the side. After one long day out on the river, he brought it back to the dock for refueling…to the tune of $350. And this was in 1983. It’s a good thing Dad’s heart problems didn’t surface in earnest for another few years – this could have been a three-and-out situation for him.
I once asked my mom why she put up with Dad spending exorbitant amounts of this thing. Her response? “How many of his friends are putting their money into girlfriends, or up their noses? If Dad wants a boat, let him have it.”
Smart lady, my mom…
I’m with bikephil.
Anyone driving more than 15K new, I want their heads on pikes.
Same for anyone who made it past 8th grade.
15K new!? Must be nice to be rich and afford anything newer then a 5 year old Civic.
As someone who made it past 8th grade, I too often want to put my head on a pike.
I often long for the days of yore, when no one lived to be my age. There’s some chance I could have died a warrior’s death and thus earned my place in Valhalla. As a modern, I am forsaken to Hel, and have no chance to redeem myself.
Need a hug?
No, it’s a legit lament. I was born at least 10 centuries (more like 14) too late to have the chance to die in battle and ‘retire’ to Valhalla. Like everyone else these days – and for the last several hundred thousand days – I’ll end up in Hel. Maybe there will be cars?
“I’ll end up in Hel. Maybe there will be cars?”
Oh, so you’d like to live in Atlanta then, car hell
For all the potential horrors of modern life, I would never choose to live before modern opioids.
When, not if, we need them, they’re there.
Thank you for the laugh.
@319…
My recollection is that her name was Hella, not Hel. (Forgive me, I got a terrific education on the vikings in fourth grade, from a terrific teacher who I still remember very fondly more than 50 years later.)
For those unfamiliar with Hella, she’s the Norse (and Teutonic, I believe) goddess of the underworld. In Norse mythology, those who die in battle end up in Valhalla, and get to drink mead with Odin; the rest go to the underworld.
Well, that explains it. I couldn’t understand this longing for Valhalla, NY, I mean really ;-)
And the hairshirt brigade comes out to play yet again.
Nah, hairshirts were volitional.
No, my dad was wealthy. Crazy, right?
Like, what, that was legal back then?
That’s a ridiculous thing to say. Maybe his dad did ok financially and decided to trade every two years for self-amusement/enjoyment?
I drive my cars to death at around 250-300k, but I have no qualms for someone who does otherwise.
Mini-me turns 16 in 2 years. At this point I don’t see her hankering for her license and a car right away, but it will certainly happen by college. Where we’re all ready for that day of her own car, I’ll gladly spend $10-12k for a Rav4 or Crosstrek in good shape with plenty of miles left.
‘Cool’ applies differently to different generations, cultures and communities.
Well Bark you wrote: “A poll in 1983 asked Americans what their dream car was—over 70 percent responded that they aspired to own a Lincoln Town Car.”
Growing up in the Greater Toronto Area in the 70’s I can confirm that few if any cars had the cool factor of a Lincoln.
Cadillacs just did not look as good. Lincoln had the opera windows, coach lights and vinyl roof perfected. The massive chrome grill. The 460 cubic inch V8. They owned TV-land, where everyone from MacMillan to Cannon drove a Lincoln.
The only true competition were Jaguars, when they actually ran (see the original Equalizer series).
The Lincoln performed far better than a comparable Rolls-Royce.
The number of limo style Mercedes around was so limited that they did not register.
BMW’s were considered rally style cars, comparable to SAAB’s and Volvos. Their interiors were basic black and certainly did not register on the luxury scale.
The impact made when driving up in a Lincoln was off the scale. Getting a girl to accept a ride in one was never a chore. What more could a teenage guy ask for?
When I got to drive one to school, the teachers always made some sort of snide comment about its cost, including the shop teacher who had a Jensen.
Even today when someone wants a truly ‘pimped out’ ride a 70’s Lincoln is the template.
Similar story to my own. As a child in 1990 My dad (in his ’40s) was looking at a Volvo 740 wagon which I thought was cool as hell. Instead he settled on a Camry wagon. Tweed cloth seats, slushbox w/ OD, and the “DX package” so he could have air conditioning. Dad was always convinced the windows would break “at any moment” and would rant about dealer trim packages.
Drove the 1990 wagon up until a year ago when it was totalled. It was rusty towards the end but nearly everything still worked. Shame — This year it would be smog exempt and qualify for historical plates in Ohio.
You must live around Cleveland.
We tend to follow many characteristics of our parents, whether we intend to or not. In my case, “working the numbers” on a car purchase doesn’t mean 72 or 84 monthly payments vs. a lease, but how much cash can I comfortably part with at the time.
A vehicle purchase has to be a balance between practicality and enjoyment, want and need, used or new, paid in full or getting into debt, buying depreciated or paying depreciation. Somewhere in the mix is the consideration of how much you are willing to shell out to affect other people’s thoughts for a few seconds (“impressing people”). Everyone has different personalities and priorities, and it’s all good.
I’ll put this out there:
A high school friend’s physician mother had a Lexus ES250 that said friend essentially was given with barely 25,000 miles on it.
I already knew GM (and to nearly the same extent, the other domestics) was in deep trouble, product wise, when I drove in it for the first time.
But after riding in that vehicle, it solidified every pessimistic and even fatalistic thought I had about GM.
The ES250, what was deemed a humble Lexus, was so many light years ahead of the “best” GM could muster in terms of refinement & quality, that it made me feel sad inside.
Funny, I had the same thought riding in my buddies moms then four year old Camry. I want to say 89′ vintage. The square one with a sunroof. When compared to the mopar sleds I was used to riding around in, that car was amazing and I too felt the end was near for Mopar. My old man hated GM cars so I had no experience with any of the product.
I call BS, the ES250 was nothing special. It was literally a Camry with a grill and tail light change and some extra insulation.
Jesus man, this isn’t even an GM thread and you have to bring in the hate. Sure your name isn’t Niedermeyer?
The pillarless window styling was simply too powerful.
Mmm wind noise.
If you mean frameless window styling, maybe
That’s what I meant. This getting up too early in the morning thing keeps me zonked all day.
Are you sure you aren’t a GM exec? This is the thought process that allowed GM to get where they are. Anyone who thinks the ES is a Camry with a grill has never sat in one, yet alone driven one. Yes they share a platform, but the ES is a different beast. Not a car for me, but I can see why they are popular.
The current ES is much nicer than the current Camry, but the ES250? That thing was just a Camry.
the ES250 was 99% Camry with a grill change. That changed quite a bit when the ES300 and later models came out.
Back in the late ’80s, the Japanese really were that far ahead in refinement. A Camry would have given the same impression.
In my household we had an ’88 Accord (mom’s car, which I’d later buy from her) and an ’87 Taurus (my car), both with about 70k miles when we bought them. Almost direct competitors. The Taurus was the far better value used, but there was just no comparison between the two in terms of refinement. The Accord had a feeling of solidity and build quality the Taurus couldn’t dream of matching, and it also accumulated a better reliability record over time.
Today the Japanese marques have cost-cut a lot of that feeling out and the domestics have improved a lot, and there isn’t the same sort of difference.
dal, back in the early 90’s when I started driving I had friends with hand me down Camrys and Maximas and Volvos etc… None of these cars were all that great, no better or worse than the guys who had the hand me down domestic stuff. Even then the Camry was seen as the boring old person’s car with the crappy sounding engine and the hard seats. There was nothing super refined or special about them. Me thinks people are looking at history with rose colored glasses and remembering it a little differently than it really was.
I think you’re looking through rose-colored glasses for the domestics.
I had the Taurus, my mom had the Accord, my high-school girlfriend had a hand-me-down ’85 Maxima, and my best buddy’s family had both a brand-new LS400 and an ’84 Caddy DeVille. I was in all of those cars regularly and drove all of them at least occasionally. All three of the imports were just better made. Fewer rattles, less broken parts, switchgear worked a lot more smoothly, materials like carpet and plastic were nicer, and structure was noticeably stiffer.
The LS400 in particular was a revelation. I had never seen such a well-built car until the first time I rode in it. My dad had an E24 and another friend’s dad had an XJ6, and the Lexus felt in another universe from both of them. So tight, quiet, and perfect.
The Japanese really did force everyone to take their build quality up several notches. I don’t have the same agenda as DeadWeight; I currently own a GM car. But I wouldn’t if they were still built the way they were in the Eighties.
You’re not even comparing cars in the same price class. I sure as hell hope an 89 (or newer) LS400 had better materials than an 87 Taurus. I beg to differ on the 88 Honda and the Maxima. Materials were only average in those. The Maxima was certainly nothing special, even the car magazines were’t impressed with it. The Accord was ok, but always had a rough transmission and was noisy.
Heck, you can’t even really compare the LS400 to the BMW and the Jag you have experience with. Those cars are generations apart. The game changed pretty quickly between 1980 and 1989. I still think your fond memories of the Accord and Maxima are just that, memories. You don’t mention what Taurus model you had…A maxima, price wise, would have been more comparable to a loaded out LX Taurus with the nicer interior etc…
Anyway, we can agree to disagree, I just don’t think you’re doing an apples to apples comparison and also using a pretty narrow range of examples.
“dal, back in the early 90’s when I started driving I had friends with hand me down Camrys and Maximas and Volvos etc… None of these cars were all that great, no better or worse than the guys who had the hand me down domestic stuff. Even then the Camry was seen as the boring old person’s car with the crappy sounding engine and the hard seats.”
In the late 90s, when I was driving, the difference for those who got cast-off Camrys and Accords and those who got cast-off Cutlass Cieras and Chrylser New Yorkers, it was a world of difference. A 5 year old 75k mile Camry or Accord felt like a normal car. A 75k mile Cutlass or 88 like my mom drove felt like it was ready for the demo derby.
It’s what it was.
Stepping into & experiencing even the “lowly” ES250 after a lifetime of GM products was so shocking – as in, I LITERALLY can’t believe a car this refined is produced AND can be purchased for less than most Buicks or Cadillacs – as to be a revolutionary experience.
Context is everything.
No rattles, no breakdowns, no weird noises, no oddities. A silken ride quality at even high speed even over broken roads with relatively impeccable interior trim, fit/finish, with a motor so refined in comparison to ANY GM motor that it made me pity GM.
Blah blah blah…you really need to start your own hate website. You’re really begining to go off the deep end with all of these non sequitur comments. Can’t you at least get little more creative and come up with something that doesn’t just fill space?
Are you in your $70,000 Chevrolet Impala…I mean Cadillac XTS (same car) right now?
Or maybe your $60,000 Yukon?
Look, the only three competitive vehicles GM makes are the Vette, Cruze & Chevy/GMC pickup twins.
Sorry to break it to you. GM’s and Mitsubishi have a lot in common except that the average Mitsubishi is likely to be far more reliable than anything GM produces.
Poncho,
Give him a break… he disses CR-Vs over on the other thread.
I don’t own either of those. So once again, you’re going off the deep end with your endless rant. Get over it man, I know you’re probably smart enough to at least add some new and interesting contribution to conversations on here beyond the “I hate GM” garbage you incessantly spew.
The ES250 was as enlightening coming from a Regal as my Corolla was next to a Monza 15 years earlier. No contest.
What is so bad about my ’89 Bonneville or Electra?
Wow, if the responses on here don’t show what a bunch of a-holes the B+B are I don’t know what would.
Not a bad story Bark.
So far only two B&Bs have taken exception to this article; Corey and some guy on a bike.
While the greatest gifts our parents can give us are more mental than physical, sometimes those teachings get altered in transmission. My mother was the most practical, frugal adult I knew when growing up. Having grown up during the Depression, she made her own clothes, cooked her own meals, saved every plastic bag and foil pan that came into our house. Widowed with 5 boys aged between 19 and 6, she got all of them to college and married off with little backsliding. I have that same practicality deeply ingrained in me but for one area: She got herself a new car every 2 years or so from the mid-60s thru to her last car, a 1994 Accord. She favored sporty coupes. A couple of T-birds, a Grand Prix, a Toronado (when FWD was unheard of), even a Supra once she decided the Japanese were worthy of a look. Sure, a couple of these were replaced out of necessity when my brother racked them up, but somehow she never blinked at depreciation when it came to having classy wheels. But I know too much about the financial downside of frequent new cars, and I’m too practical not to have a hatch that lets me carry big stuff, and haven’t had a new car in 35 years, and nothing without a hatch for even longer. Go figure.
I think this is an ‘old people’ thing. It took me forever to break my old man of the habit of trading every 2 years/50K miles. He honestly believed his Camcords were about to crumble into dust at this mileage and had to be unloaded at once, regardless of trade-in price, before they became completely unmarketable. This may have been a vestige of Depression-era wisdom handed down by his parents; it certainly didn’t mesh with any of the mechanical evidence from his many purchases once he went Japanese in the early 90’s. Currently have him at 5+ years on his latest Camry…it’s been a delightful discovery for him. I like to tell him, if he plays his cards right and changes the oil once in a while, it can be his last car!
You’re probably right, most of those 60’s and 70’s Big 3 cars would not have been good long-term keepers like cars are now. I also suppose that a non-mechanically inclined woman would also be very leery of used cars from that era, and rightly so. She did hang onto the Accord much longer, altho part of that was a result of driving less.
We never had a high mileage car back then, but my dad had a 1968 Ford F-250 that served us well into the 1980’s. We finally had to replace the radiator and have the transmission rebuilt from all the trailer towing, but other than that it was amazingly trouble free.
Of course you had to do points/plugs/condenser/distributor cap/rotor button, but no major mechanical until the transmission rebuild, some 15 years into its life.
Absolutely true, my parents have never owned a car with more the 50K miles on it
I hope your mother got a lot of pleasure out of all those cars. She certainly sounds like she deserved it.
In 1994, my parents were just about to get a 1990 5-series to go along side their 1985 Supra. It was going to be just in time for me to drive to prom- how cool! Instead, they got a great deal on something completely opposite: a 1995 Cherokee Sport 5-spd. I was disappointed, but the Jeep was powerful for its day. When they upgraded to the Grand Cherokee six years later, I got the old XJ with 100k miles, and still have it to this day, with 212k miles on it. It’s a great off-roader and still gets 21mpg. However…it is finally sharing the garage with a BMW: a 2007 335i.
It’s hard for me to imagine an early 80’s Lincoln ever being an aspirational car for 70% of the country.
It was aspirational to 70% of the respondents to a survey in Reader’s Digest.
Ding ding ding ding!
My dad didn’t drive anything cool until his late forties he bought a Mustang LX 5.0L. By then I was already a raging caraholic, but we still had a lot of fun in it. Since then, he’s picked up some other interesting rides after catching the car bug from me. A ’71 Charger Superbee and ’91 Buick Reatta convertible.
My dad drove trucks. Trucks as long as I can remember. 2014 was the first time he had a daily driver that was a car since he had a Renault Alliance GTA.
Also, Reattas are sweet.
My old man loves his Chrysler minivans. One after another for the last 25 years. To be fair, his current DGC R/T would probably dust many of the “cool” cars that were available when I was a kid.
“his current DGC R/T would probably dust many of the “cool” cars that were available when I was a kid”
It would smoke them so bad. Hell, my C-Max has a chance against the 80s muscle cars.
I’d also totally watch a show about your dad travelling back in time with his DGC R/T and racing performance cars from the 70s and 80s.
No time machine needed. He ran it at the drag strip in one of the trophy classes and put a van-length on a V8 SHO with what sounded like exhaust mods.
You were addicted to carahol?
Still am! Quitting is for quitters.
Is that like rageahol?
Rageahol fueled car? One for you, one for me.
youtube.com/watch?v=JsFzeX-k1_E
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kCUIzs8i9EU
I just can’t live without ragehol.
Bark, great story.
I come by the petrol in my veins quite honestly. I have two ex-Air Force pilot uncles who where both car guys, one into Land Rovers and water-cooled VWs, the other into Corvettes and hot rod VW Beetles. My Mom is ex-Air Force as well, had her private license for a while, and drove a beat up old 911 for much of my formative years (wish it was still in the garage – it was a late ’60s S!), then a number of cool new cars once her career in banking took off in the 80s and 90s. Multiple Saab Turbos, an Audi Quattro wagon, a 944 Turbo for a while. Inherited a 528e when she married my last stepfather and drove that for ages.
I WAS given my first car, by my Grandparents, a hand-me-down 4yo ’82 Subaru, for which I am grateful, and they helped pay for my 3rd car, a $4500 ’85 Jetta 2dr. The car was in lieu of any more than nominal support in college – after f’ing off and flunking out my first year, which they paid for, I was on my own to pay for college. They helped out with the car and books, but that was IT. And I am glad they both made me do it on my own, and helped out with the wheels! Ended up with a 3.95 GPA in undergrad once I went back, and top 10% of my class in law school. Means more when you are paying for it yourself.
Oddly, while my Grandfather has had by far the most influence on my life, he is not in any way a car guy, have driven used American wagons, Suburbans, a couple minivans and pickups mostly, with a few Subarus when he and my Grandmother still commuted to work. One horrible ’85 Olds 98 as a retirement gift to himself, that he hated. Coolest thing he ever owned was a new ’92 Jeep Cherokee Limited. But he taught me to be who I am now, and for that I am profoundly grateful to the old man, who is still alive and kicking at 92. A truly self-made man, son of a chicken farmer, dropped out of school to fight in WWII in the Marines as a Douglas Dauntless pilot (how I did not catch the flying bug in this family is a miracle). Raised three children of his own, mostly raised me, has helped out ALL of his other grandchildren, recently bankrolling my kid brother in his own landscaping business. Worked his way from being a bread salesman driving a delivery van to Vice-President of Distribution for a large bakery here in Maine. Kept his private pilots license into his 70s. An amazing life.
kr
Cool story. Too bad it will be lost on most of these guys.
It’s sometimes weird to look back and figure out where the heck our disease came from.
Don’t be so hard on the B&B they’re not all as shallow as you make them out to be. Yes, krhodes1, cool story that proves that all our family can influence who we are and what we become. We are the sum total of all it’s parts
Oh, for a good number of them, the dickishness goes plenty deep, not shallow at all. There is a LOT of very thinly veiled jealousy around here.
As for your Grandfather, there is a reason why he and his peers are referred to as “the greatest generation”.
Indeed. I honestly have no chance at all of remotely matching what that man has accomplished in his 92 years on the planet.
He lives up to one of my favorite quotes (don’t know if he ever wrote a sonnet though):
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
Excellent post. If I meet my savings and 529 account goals I hope my kids will have the same experience.
My old man, and his parents who came of age in the depression well before WWII (Granny is 98; Grandpa would be 101), view cars as an expense to minimize. I’m in my early 30s but had friends whose parents had things like a manual SHO, E38 740 M-Sport, Volvo 850 Turbo (when those blew away Mustangs), Porsche 930 turbo (I learned all sorts of new words when the dad backed it out of the garage with the door open, ripping it off), and an Extended Aerostar Eddie Bauer.
“Extended Aerostar Eddie Bauer.”
Rich.
My parents gave me a car when I finally finished college. It was a 1971 Pinto, veteran of four whole winters. The driver’s door skin had a two foot long hole in it, up to 4 inches wide, and only what was left of the door bottom kept the skin and interior from completely parting ways. Couldn’t lower the window much. Looking in through the oil cap, squashed cam lobes and the yellow stain imparted by Castrol GTX promised diminished performance. However, it ran.
It was a drafty ride, but a cheap bath towel stuffed in the rust hole kept things down to a light breeze. Thus encouraged, I went to a local body shop owned by a character known for his laconic ways to see what could be done.
He opened the door, slammed it shut, judging the quiver of rusty metal. Walked round the car slowly, then spoke with a quiver of a smile : “This car has cancer up to the waterline.” For emphasis, he added, “The door handle line.”
And then he walked back into his shop.
The car lasted 5 months more, just long enough for me to put a payment on a new vehicle. So it actually helped me a lot. Thanks, Dad!
Bark M, thanks for the reminiscences about your father, who sounds like a genuinely cool dude.
My dad gave me my first car – a hand-me-down aqua Chrysler Newport that had seen better days, but I was thrilled with it. Probably just because it had been dad’s.
My dad grew up poor and, even as economic circumstances improved, he typically drove second-hand large MoPars through the ’50s and ’60s. He was locally prominent in the public sector, so he shunned anything that looked too extravagant – it would be, in his estimation, the appearance of wrongdoing.
But then, in the mid-80s, he retired and bought what he really wanted all along – a late-’70s bright yellow Town Car! Honest, he enjoyed the hell out of that boat! My siblings kept that car for a few years after dad passed away in the early ’90s, but none of us really wanted to drive it, and it was ultimately sold.
Bark, not meaning to beat a cliche to death – so often, it’s not the cars themselves that we’re reminded of, but the unforgettable people who owned them.
My dad was a practical sort. He really wanted a Mercedes. He could certainly afford it, but he couldn’t bring himself to spend the money.
My Godfather (with whom I was very close) definitely was a car guy. He had an MG Magnette sedan with a leather and walnut interior and loved to run it through the gears (as did my Godmother of the lead foot). Later he owned a Rover 3500 which he let me drive when I got my license. It’s from him that I have my love of British cars. Yet, from my dad, I have that sense of practicality that has prevented me from owning that older Jaguar or Bentley. I’m jonesing for a new car, but that voice in my head says “buy another CPO car, and skip the depreciation hit”. It’s hard to ignore.
There is only so much time and disposable income and we have to make choices. As much as I love cars, I view them as necessary, functional items as I’d rather spend the excess money on flying and, possibly, building my own airplane.
I’m always puzzled by people that claim to love cars and then are proud that they can’t seem to find one worth keeping very long before they get bored with it. It’s like hearing someone talk of how they love women, but don’t you know, they can’t make it past three months with a woman.
While there were some winners in this constant turnaround, it just seems a relatively random and aimless journey that doesn’t inspire me to call the man a great appreciator of cars. It seems more like the joke about good executives not making good decisions, they just make lots of them and some are bound to turn out good.
” It’s like hearing someone talk of how they love women, but don’t you know, they can’t make it past three months with a woman.”
That’s when she finds out about all the other women you love
“He was and is a different sort of car guy. He never turned a single wrench on a car or a single lap on a race track. He still wanted his cars to be practical” …..soooo, basically a normal, albeit wealthy car shopper
going through cars at the same rate as cell phones /= car love. I go through expensive premium cell phones every year or so, and I freaking hate the things. Do really poor people think I’m a coolguy cell phone enthusiast?
Yes, yes they do…
My dad’s pretty much always driven fairly plain compacts or mid-sizers mostly Chryslers and Hyundais, until they’re around 8-10 years old. Not out of necessity, I think there’s just always been better things to spend money on (getting the mortgage paid off early, travelling). I don’t think I’ve had anything longer than 3 years, and as much as most of what I’ve owned has been plebian (because I’m still cheap), I convince myself at the time there’s good reason I’ve chosen it.
Every so often though, cracks appear – I remember him eyeballing the Olds Intrigue at the ’98 auto show, and recently while my parents were talking about replacing their older Sonata, he suggested maybe looking for something a little nicer than the Elantra my mom wants.
In 1972, my sister dragged me out to a movie. It turned out to be “Le Mans”, and I was immediately smitten. I started talking to my father about it, and found out that he had done short track stock car racing as a young man, and had worked for Andy Granatelli while Andy was in the parts business. I suggested he get a Porsche, and sonofagun, he did it, an red 1972 911T coupe. He let me drive it to school a few times, and I used it to scare a couple of friends with its cornering capabilities.
I will never understand the B&B and their rage against people who spend their fun money on cars.
It’s pure jealousy, and nothing else. There is no other rational explanation. They can’t afford anything better than a boring used mid-sizer or some such, so anyone who buys something nicer and/or more frequently has to be a brand whore or a money waster.
But could buy a used M3 for the cost of a Ford Focus…
Oh wait, wrong site.
I think most of us with gas in our veins “got it” from our dads. Mine had a 733i too, a 1980 in silver, over dark blue leather, with a manual (a four-speed, as I recall). I was lucky enough to have a license when that one came along.
Over the years, he had a very nice stable of cars, the favorites being the aforementioned BMW, and a 1992 Mercedes 400E, with the 32-valve V-8. It wasn’t much off the line (Mercedes used to program its transmissions to start in second for a smooth launch), but when you punched it in motion, you might as well have been Captain Picard ordering warp nine. Incredibly smooth and FAST. It was so serene that I ran my future mom-in-law and her sister – atrocious back seat drivers both – to the airport in it and hit 120 in the fast lane of I-270. They never noticed. Magnificent car.
I also had a soft spot for his ’80 Eldorado (black over tan, custom ordered with alloy wheels and no vinyl roof), even though it was pretty much junk. Loved the look of that car, though…
Interesting story. My father drove the same car for about 11 years, I think because they (Ford Australia) stopped building V8s for quite a while. For the next 15 years he leased ex-factory cars, the last one was about 6 months old with a couple of thousand miles for approx 2/3 list price. During this time people would ask him why he drove a Ford when he could have afforded a Mercedes, but the Ford was a bigger more powerful car than a Mercedes at twice the price (thanks to the luxury car tax) and the closest dealerships were an hours drive away.
15 years ago he bought his first ‘hobby’ car, and another a couple of years later, then around the time he retired he got into ‘fun’ daily drivers and has taken all of his cars on the race track. Last year he did buy a Mercedes – an AMG.
Perhaps because of his influence I have been unable to make some tempting but rather silly car decisions!
I’ve never been well off or even fully comfortable, but I’ve almost always had a play car – anything from an old Fiat X 1/9 to a former phone company Plymouth Horizon 4 spd sedan that someone hand roller-painted a racing stripe on. Good fun tossing that thing around.
My current playa is the Saab, which I did splurge a little on when I hit a milestone. Next milestone I’d love to “upgrade” to an older E series convertible, the last real hand-built Benz.
Not sure where I got my car jones from – my dad was an architect and while he liked Mopars for what he felt was their superior engineering, he didn’t salivate over cars like I do.
I was born in the back of a 1975 Buick Century wagon, a clamshell tailgate if I’m not mistaken. Although 100% absurd and not likely true, I shall declare that it is the reason for my lifelong fasincation with wagons. I’ve only owned a pair of Volvos so far but I’ll get that Roadmaster yet. Grew up in B-body Buicks so have to get the last of the line.
Dad liked crappy Oldsmobiles and mom drove LeSabres and Electras until dad later got the Electra and mom moved on to dustbusters. The only oddity was that I talked my mom (I was in college by this point) into buying a used 3000GT 5sp in electric blue. I have no idea why she bought it since she almost never drove it, but I was more than happy to borrow it to make sure it was driven occasionally. Looking back it wasn’t the best car but it was mighty cool of her to have a mid-life crisis car for my benefit.
Mom knows how to rock a manual and subbed in for school bus drivers when I was a kid–try turning one of those MFers around in a tiny driveway (yes, the buses were manual back then). Her early cars were Volkswagens and when she moved to Los Angeles in the 60s she picked up a Karmann Ghia which she deemed too frightening to drive on the freeway on account of it’s modest acceleration.
Maybe I did get it from her; she’s one of the few people who will listen to me when I make a car recommendation (despite a bad choice with a ragged-out 850 wagon). She got the exact Santa Fe that I perscribed and absolutely loves it. It certainly didn’t come from dad, his last car was a white whale (Grand Marquis) YUCK!
“I was born in the back of a 1975 Buick Century wagon, a clamshell tailgate if I’m not mistaken”
“clamshell tailgate” How symbolical