June and Bud Runion, whose love for the 1966 Mustang convertible may have led to their deaths.
This story is admittedly a bit on the tabloid side for our august site, but the terrible misfortune of a Georgia couple should be a cautionary tale about trying to buy things from strangers online advertising at sites like Craigslist that provide no protection of any kind to the buyers or sellers. Usually that protection is fiduciary, though not having to deal face to face when transacting trade does have its advantages. Of course, there’s nothing in this story that couldn’t have happened when most used car ads were in newspaper or penny-saver classifieds, so it’s not a case of the internet changing everything, but it’s still a reminder that trying to buy a special car can go wrong in so many ways.
I’ve never bought a car from someone off of Craigslist, but I have bought some office equipment and, more recently, some inexpensive guitars in my quest to provide a First Act and Switch Vibracell counterpoint to the Baruth Collection’s Gibson, Heritage, G&L, and Paul Reed Smith custom shop jobs. For safety reasons some folks won’t let you come to their home and you have to meet someplace public. I used to think that buying a 1964 Teisco hollowbody in the parking lot of a Walmart made me feel a little bit like transacting a drug deal and that the sellers were being unduly cautious, but after reading about this tragedy in Georgia I’ll concede that maybe those sellers have a point. The presumed murder of the man and woman in Georgia takes the warning caveat emptor, let the buyer beware, to an entirely new level.
Bud and June Runion, 69 and 66 respectively, disappeared last Thursday after they had posted an ad on Craigslist wanting to buy a 1966 Mustang convertible. The couple had dreamed of buying one since they were married many years ago but that dream turned into a nightmare. Their 2003 GMC Envoy was found submerged in a lake and not far away authorities have discovered the bodies of a man and woman that fit their ages and descriptions. While positive identifications haven’t yet been made, the Runions’ family have apparently acknowledged their loved ones fate.
Ronnie “Jay” Towns, photo courtesy of Telfair County Sheriff’s Office
The owner of the phone listed last on the log of the Runions’ phone, Ronnie “Jay” Towns, 28, turned himself into the sheriff’s office to face charges of giving false statements to police and criminal attempt to commit theft by deception.
The couple was discovered missing when they missed a scheduled date to babysit their grandkids on Friday. After someone answered their Mustang wanted ad, they are believed to have driven the 180 miles from their home in Marietta to McRae, GA, presumably to see a vintage muscle car that they didn’t know was fictional.
When contacted by ABC News, Craigslist representatives referred to the free classified ad site’s “safety page”, which states, “Be especially careful when buying/selling high value items.”
I suppose that posting a wanted-to-buy ad makes you particularly vulnerable to those looking to take advantage, but I want to be clear that this story involves victims and a predator and that I’m not blaming the victims. I feel silly even having to say that the Runions didn’t deserve to die. Only one person is responsible for this crime, the murderer.
At the same time, if you’re about to buy something expensive, like a car, with cash, from a complete stranger, particularly traveling out of town to meet them, it might not be a bad idea to ask for some personal and business references before you head out the door.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the Runions’ family and friends.
Ronnie Schreiber edits Cars In Depth, a realistic perspective on cars & car culture and the original 3D car site. If you found this post worthwhile, you can get a parallax view at Cars In Depth. If the 3D thing freaks you out, don’t worry, all the photo and video players in use at the site have mono options. Thanks for reading – RJS
This is tragic, but they certainly aren’t the first. There are a few sadistic versions of “the Craigslist Killer out there….If that isnt lesson enough…
I will NEVER go to someone’s house to purchase something. If they aren’t comfortable with meeting somewhere public then I don’t need it that bad. Electric appliances can be plugged in virtually anywhere to make sure they work. I’ve brought an extension cord along and plugged it in to an outlet at a gas station when buying a like new portable air conditioner for the garage.
An even bigger no no in my book is bringing people to my house. I value the safety of my family too much to even consider allowing a stranger to come to my home to buy anything. Its just not worth it.
Exactly. I bought an iPad from someone in the middle of last year—after I left my previous iPad of the same model on the roof of my car and drove off with it there—and we met in a crowded Target parking lot.
Depends on what you’re selling too though. I sold a box full of Allen Bradley PLC components on CL last year. Only an EE or total nerd (are they one and the same?) would even know the worth of the stuff and know how good a deal it was. Sure enough, an enlisted EE scooped it up within days of me posting. I had no problem with him coming to my house.
When it comes to higher dollar stuff, I make it clear that I will not be transacting business anywhere but in a bank lobby.
The biggest risk for people naive enough to use cash is that some piece of scum cop will use civil forfeiture to steal the cash:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/
With legal abortion and lead out of the gas we have never lived in more peaceful times. Except for crooked, lazy government employees protected by increasingly powerful thuggish public sector unions.
To protect yourself from cops, the rare cases where the criminals are not cops, and to make the transaction flow smoothly: Meet at a bank and make clear before meeting that if the goods and title are sufficient a cashiers check will be drawn. That also gives you the flexibility to draw it for whatever amount is justified after review.
Also, Ronnie, murder off classified ads goes back as far as classified ads, it ain’t kids these days or the internet:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonely_hearts_killer
Except civil forfeiture is pretty dead:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/01/us-justice-department-bans-local-state-police-using-federal-civil-forfeiture-program/
And never take a cashier’s check as if it was cash. It’s not, and it may not clear. So assuming a seller will take your check is an issue.
Most civil asset forfeiture cases were not affected by the attorney general’s decision. He had limited authority to make changes, and there are plenty of loopholes available, so the changes will have little to no effect on volume.
Taking a Cashier’s Check, and taking a Cashier’s Check you watched a buyer draw on his own bank are two different things.
It’s a sad deal. Wish something in the article spoke to motive, though I’m guessing robbery was likely. Also, in this day and age, surely it’s super easy to search for the vintage ‘stang of your dreams without having to post a “wanting to buy” ad.
I do very little to no private transactions, generally speaking, but I’ve got no problem going to someone’s house. There is however a difference between going to a house in a nice subdivision to meet with an elderly couple who are selling their classic car and going three miles out of town to a trailer in the woods to meet a guy who was monosyllabic on the phone. I’ve had pretty good results going with my gut, and if I feel uneasy, I won’t do it.
Final transaction always happens at a bank, however. Lots of cameras and people, and the FBI looks askance at any shenanigans in a bank.
This is a terrible story. I’m not sure how this guy thought he was going to get away with it. I suppose he was hoping no one would go looking for them.
That said, this is similar plane crashes and terrorism. There are literally millions of transactions that happen on Craigslist and other similar sites that don’t result in theft or murder. You only hear about the bad ones. Yes, you should be smart about it and realize not everyone is on the level, but everyone is not out to get you.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I am in the midst of selling my car to a guy on an oil rig who wants my exact car for his uncle and is going to have a third party come pay me with a cashier’s check for twice my asking price.
Eh, I’d hold out for something better. Seems there’s a bunch of Nigerians that are flush with cash, and will pay /way/ more than twice your price.
Wait, are you telling me that YOU have a long-lost rich Nigerian cousin? Weirdest thing, but I randomly found out on email just the other day that I do TOO! Maybe you and I are related!!
You got the oil rig story too? I guess they only pop out the woodwork for big ticket items.
For smaller purchases I’ve seen a lot of “I’m disabled so I can’t come to get ‘the item\'” emails or texts. A surefire way to spot a scam buyer is when they call your sale “the item.”
I found a “I’m in the military and about to be deployed to Iraq so I need to sell my car” scam listing once, but I imagine listings like that are quite common.
And when you’ve sold it, you can buy the car you want for half of it’s actual value from a guy who will ship it from Germany via military transport after you wire him the money.
I find strange the ads for a pristine used car just a few years old but at a ridiculously low price, located in a city 1,500 miles away. I haven’t responded to any to find out what the scam that they are running is.
Did they bring cash?
I sold acar on CL and got certifed checks.
I sold a car a couple months ago and I was shocked when the guy pulled out a roll of hundreds and paid me in cash.
I was quite worried about having that much money in my house, I can’t imagine how I’d feel walking around with it in my pocket.
I’ve bought with both. I felt a whole lot better paying via certified check than I did with $14,000 cash. Every time I’ve sold vehicles the buyer has paid cash.
I generally go straight to the bank with it though, so not too much risk I’d think. And yes, I’m generally carrying.
You’d be surprised.
Just had a couple drive down from Georgia two weeks ago to buy an MKZ Hybrid and put $11,000 down – cash.
I’ve sold a lot of cars to private buyers, all have paid cash. The most I ever got was $7k for my ’98 240SX. Kinda wish I had kept that one…
Cash is king. Universally accepted.
You’d probably be surprised at how many people don’t actually have bank accounts.
When I sold my RX-8 in 2009 for $15,000, the buyer paid me in cash. In a Target food court area. In twenties….
The real issue? Depositing over $10,000 in cash at the bank and having to deal with all the regulations around that.
“The real issue? Depositing over $10,000 in cash at the bank and having to deal with all the regulations around that.”
That should not be an issue. Easiest way is to deposit the money in amounts of less than $5K over several days, weeks or months, or into several bank accounts. Happens all the time, every day, all across the US.
But why deposit such a sum of money anyway? Food truck vendors and other cash-only businesses routinely take in more than $10K per day but don’t deposit all of the money received in a bank or financial institution.
In their case, they often pay in cash to their suppliers for the cost of their goods.
The tax code makes provisions for such transactions, if you want to keep it all above board and transparent. That’s what receipts are for.
Spliting deposits to avoid government reporting is called structuring, and it’s against the law – specifically the Bank Secrecy Act.
http://overlawyered.com/2012/04/structuring-who-can-get-away-with-it-and-who-cant/
@beastpilot…….that’s not a problem. Deposit 9k, then go back the next month and deposit the rest.
I have bought a car and sold two, as well as bought and sold a motorcycle. Everyone I ever dealt with was quite cool. One of the cars I sold I met the guy in a public place, the rest were either at my home or theirs. Of course the state I live in believes in Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms (as RF would say on his new site), so there is less to worry about. That being said I would never consider bringing my wife
And millions of other citizens, murder rates from other countries and most cops would say that makes things far more dangerous.
A firearm is far more effective as an offensive weapon than as a defensive weapon. That has been proven many, many times.
Sorry to hijack this thread but as the kid in me will state “you started it”.
“A firearm is far more effective as an offensive weapon than as a defensive weapon. That has been proven many, many times.”
I’d rather be tested than to willingly end up dead in a lake. Go live in Mexico and tell me how well that unarmed populace is getting along.
I drove with a friend from Nogales to Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico in a crew cab Dodge Ram, unarmed. NEVER AGAIN.
I can’t be the only one who really wants to hear this story.
Someone has balls of steel.
youtube.com/watch?v=2rAjily7rME
Well, I was more stupid than anything. I was new to Tucson and I worked with a guy from Sinaloa (let’s call him Carlos). Carlos said he was going to drive down to his parents house, and wanted to know if I wanted to come with him and hang out in Culiacan. I was excited to see Mexico outside of Cabo, Nogales, and Cancun, so I went.
I didn’t know at the time, but the main owners of crew cab trucks in Mexico are police and cartel members. They both also like to acquire more. Luckily, Carlos knew one of the cartel members that stopped us in their F150 Raptor. I just got threatened and called names instead of killed.
Like one of Tresmonos’ experiences, we also ended up outrunning a police truck in the dead of night. Not because we were doing anything wrong, but getting stopped by Mexican police at 2 am south of Hermosillo is bad news. We weren’t paying the bribe.
Just before we got to Culiacan, someone decided they wanted Carlos’ truck more than him. We stopped to get gas, got roughed up, and then were without a truck. Carlos took the worst of it because he didn’t want to give up his keys. I thought I was going to end up like Joe Pesci in Casino. Instead, they beat me up, took my cash, spit on my Military ID and took off.
I actually enjoyed my week in Culiacan. I ate, drank, and was merry. I did, however, take an airplane home. Carlos rented a Nissan Tiida and drove back. Last year he made the drive again with his new, matte black RAM, with custom everything. He still has another eye surgery to go before his vision is back to normal. Considering that he took a baseball bat to the head, I’d say he’s lucky.
I’m sure all they wanted to do was come by and say to your friend: “You only exist out here because of me. That’s the only reason. Without me, you, personally, every f***in’ wise guy skell around’ll take a piece of your f***in’ J** ass.” but then the saw the truck and thought hmmmmm.
Seriously though, *wow*. I’m sure there are many nice things in country but it’s stories like this which give me the general opinion of f*** Mexico.
28-
If Mexico can ever get it’s $hit together…
So many things to like. The food, the booze, the weather, the women. All ruined by narco violence and corruption.
Thanks for the explanation, much worse than I would have imagined. I’ve always been curious about spending some time down there, but it’s hearing things like this that keep me away.
That is a scary story though, bball. Main thing to do, if you do go into Mexico is blend in, as much as possible. I always borrowed a beater car to go down there. Unwashed and driven on muddy, dusty roads 1st. Not to sound sanctimonious, but yeah. Bad enough with US plates.
I’ve been to Mexico plenty of times since. I’ve been to plenty of different areas. Part of my job soon after that required me to be in Mexico 1-2 days a week.
The lesson for me is, don’t go to Mexico with someone who may have connections to the Sinaloa Cartel. I knew Carlos’ wife was the CFO of a company that imported tomatos to the US, and that he was from a well to do family in Sinaloa. I was too trusting. Carlos was in the US Army too, so I let that cloud my judgement.
DenverMike-
His Ram had Sinaloan plates. He had another truck with US plates, but the truck we drove was registered in Mexico.
“there are 2 types of people my friend”.
Unfortunately what chance would you have i) if someone or a group pulled their firearms on you first, ii) came up behind you with a firearm, iii) had a long gun aimed at you?
Most likely you dead and the criminal in possession of your weapon? After all this has happened to trained police officers.
That is why a firearm is an offensive weapon, like a sword, not a defensive weapon like a shield (body armour). Therefore the advantage goes to the aggressor/the one with surprise.
What is happening in Mexico is the destruction of a civil society and the creation of criminal empires. Nothing that should be comparable to the living conditions of a first world democracy, but possibly comparable to what happened in Jamaica.
Hopefully, the State still has capital punishment. A proven deterrent as no criminal who has been executed has ever committed another crime.
Studies have shown that capital punishment doesn’t really have much of a deterrent effect. However, it does wonders for the recidivism rate.
bk you are correct. Thanks.
situational awareness, my friend. that’s your biggest defense. the firearm is last resort for survival.
I have used a firearm as a defensive weapon multiple times. Further, I know scores of others who have done the same…both police officers and ordinary citizens.
Bad men usually don’t expect a gunfight when they try to assault you…and contrary to what you alleged, people who are the victim of criminal assault who pull a gun to defend themselves succeed quite a bit. Usually without a shot ever being fired.
Your concept of what has been “proven” about firearms as a defensive weapon doesn’t really jive with reality.
‘carry’ Unfortunately my comments are based on statistics and comments of experienced law enforcement officials, of which there are/were quite a number in my immediate family.
Someone with criminal intent and an unsettled mind is quite prone to ‘pulling the trigger’ when their intended victim tries something.
And the tragic murders of a number of police officers in both Canada and the USA over the past few years are ample illustration that both possessing and being trained in firearm use does not protect you from someone intent on evil who also has a firearm and intends on using it, if they have pulled/aimed theirs first.
Exactly right tresmonos, what irks me is when a Muslim terrorist kills somebody we are told to be tolorant and not judge the whole group, but when somebody kills somebody with a gun, tens of millions of law abiding gun owners are held accountable and better forfeit their guns right now.
Tom, it is true there is not a great deal of logic in many of these arguments as political belief, culture, and even where you live impact your views.
However the United Kingdom has a greater percentage of practicing Muslims than the US and has had more than their share of terrorist activities, yet murder rates are much lower than in the US.
Long gun ownership in the UK is fairly widespread but sidearm ownership is strictly controlled and ‘concealed carry’ and ‘stand your ground’ laws non-existent.
Uniformed police officers are also unarmed. Now check the statistics below, in one year a total of 5 times when police actually used their firearms!
In the year 2011–12, there were 6,756 Authorised Firearms Officers, 12,550 police operations in which firearms were authorised throughout England and Wales and 5 incidents where conventional firearms were used.[2]
“Statistics on police use of firearms in England and Wales 2011-2012”. Home Office. 11 July 2013. Retrieved 14 August 2014.
We may prefer the way that things are here in North America but that statistic is quite shocking. Particularly when we realize how violent certain cities can be over there.
I don’t know the moral of this or the correct answer, but believe that it is worth discussing and do agree with ‘BKs’ posting about reducing recidivism and ‘Tresmonos’ thoughts on situational awareness.
I *am* a law enforcement professional. Further, I’ve been in situations where I was staring down the barrel of a drawn gun…and I’m still here. In those situations having my own firearm proved incredibly useful and is probably the reason why I’m still here.
Facing down an already drawn gun is never a risk-free proposition…but neither is it a death sentence. Just ask this guy:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=721551#.VMjh8kfF8ng
Short version: Armed robber had the drop on him, but despite being shot at close range he got his own gun into play and sent the robber fleeing into the night with a bullet wound for his troubles.
Staring down the barrel is a bad situation…but having an effective means of self defense and the resolve to use it is about the only way of making that bad situation better.
I buy and sell lots of cars and car parts via online classifieds and have never had any serious trouble. Meeting at a gas station or other pulbic venue is a good idea for both parties. I sometimes go to the person’s house and they sometimes come to mine int he case of larger parts and rolling chassis cars. It always pays to assume the worst, which my wife always does. When going to inspect or pick up something, I’ll sometimes bring a friend who has a CPL just in case. I’m glad my gnarly looking buddy came with me to Highland Park to look at that Mustang that one time.
So yeah, buyer beware.
I cannot stress it enough – if you’re brave enough to wheel and deal with craigslisters and cash, carry a gun.
I am always armed when I’m dealing with strangers and large sums of money.
You went to Highland Park, MI to look at a car?
Yes, stupidly. It went pretty much exactly as one might expect. No firearms were drawn, but lets say it was a waste of time for both parties.
HP isn’t that bad.
I’ve been craigslisting just east of Livernois and south of Davidson. I bought a wooden dock cart that I turned into a coffee table. The single mother I bought it from was hot as hell. I regret not asking her number as she kept in touch with me (willingly) to see how I restored it with Linseed oil / sanding.
Beautiful neighborhood, but definitely sketchy.
The only reason HPizzle isn’t bad compared to other areas of Detroit is that no one lives there anymore. Most gangs in Detroit are block gangs. Because Highland Park is a post apocalyptic ghost town, you have a lower chance for violence.
Livernois and Davidson is west of Highland park, but it’s close. HP doesn’t start until you get east of the Lodge. Almost everyone I’ve worked with in Highland Park has had their catalytic converter stolen at some point.
I’ve never been to Detroit unless it happened when I was a little kid with my parents, but you guys are giving me visions of a ‘little Somalia’ inside Michigan.
I’ve never been to Somalia, so I can’t confirm. Is the weather nice at least? If so, it’d at least have that over Detroit.
Single mothers can be much more dangerous then wannabe tough guys.
I have bought and sold many things on CL (cars, bikes, music gear) and never had a problem. I am on the alert at all times and always expect the worst. What a tragedy for these poor people and their next of kin.
Now this POS will get a fair trial and increase his burden even more.
This story and this photo just make me sad. What could’ve been one of the best days of their lives. For anything of any value I meet folks in a busy parking area and usually would carry as well. Asking for what kind of vehicle they’re in and other details makes me feel better at least. It is easy to get wrapped up in the excitement of a car hunt.
Pick have bought and sold mutiiple cars and other items on CL and never had an issue. common sense is all one needs. The above article is a travesty for sure but the perp will get what’s coming.
My most memorable sale was a car that I sold and the buyer came from the southern region of the state, about four hours. Shows up at my house and busy the car with a grocery bag full of cash. We promptly went to the bank to count the funds and deposit it.
Lastly..@racer esq. Ease up on the vitriol with the police. Are there a few bad ones? Yes. The other 99.9% are fine people who perform their jobs honorably. Just like every other profession.
This may sound strange but a sad aspect of this is that it seems he didn’t even intend to try and get away with it. His real phone number was the last number on their call log? Just so sad.
People who are criminals often aren’t too bright or able to plan ahead, because otherwise they wouldn’t be criminals. Given the rural nature of his location and the fact that he’s white, I’m going to guess methhead. Drugs often lead to people making poor and irrational decisions.
He also may not have been planning on killing them, just robbing them.
We had I guy right here in Ontario, with a Dodge Ram 3/4 listed. Two guys came to his house, and the three of them went for a teat drive. They found the sellers body, a few weeks later.???
I think their still waiting trial.
If you watch all of the so called “reality shows” “Counting cars, “Gas monkeys,” etc, the buyers, and sellers, walk around with 20- 30 K in cash. I think people believe that the “real” world works that way.
“If you watch all of the so called “reality shows” “Counting cars, “Gas monkeys,” etc, the buyers, and sellers, walk around with 20- 30 K in cash. I think people believe that the “real” world works that way.”
It doesn’t? Where have I been all this time, then?
But don’t you think there is something more to it than that? Two guys kill someone for a used Dodger PU? I know most criminals are idiots, but that makes no sense.
The murdered man was named Tim Bosma. He was a young father. His alleged murderer (I only say “alleged” because he hasn’t been convicted yet as far as I know) is named Dellen Millard and he could be a serial killer.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/07/16/tim_bosma_murder_case_heading_straight_to_trial.html
I can almost see what happened. The killer played on their emotions, buttered them up, probably got them all in a tizzy about how the car was going to be sold unless they brought cash immediately and then took them down. They probably got played like a fiddle and it cost them their lives.
This is a cautionary tale. Always buy with your head and not your heart. If someone tries to get you to do something weird in a car purchase or you get any kind of bad vibe just walk away. There’s always another car, especially something as common as a Mustang jeez.
That’s a good point, and key to this disaster. Never rush into anything. Anytime a seller wants to say that he’s got someone else ready to buy, and that he’ll sell it to you if you just get there first, you should be suspicious.
The problem in the world is that there is a tiny percent of bad guys, and they spoil it for all the rest of us. Most criminals like this punk, are of low intelligence and none-existent conscience. I hope he gets the needle, but in our system, who knows. To go on to Craig’s list, I’ve bought and sold cars coast to coast, I’ve sent deposits to sellers, flew to several states, usually the seller picks me up at the airport. Have I been ripped off? Other than some minor “omissions” as to the vehicles condition, generally I’ve come out just fine. I talk to the seller on the phone, and part of this is that you have to be somewhat knowledgeable about the vehicle, about discerning the sellers personality and “angle”, basically a little mind-reading. The Craig’s list ad itself is important to carefully examine and consider.I guess a good con man could fool me, but I’ve went after mostly low end vehicles, so a big profit angle isn’t part of the equation. I know Craig’s list has discouraged long distance transactions, but I’ve been happy with all of mine. Maybe others will add their experience’s and we can compare.
Same here. I’ve bought cars all over the country, never a problem. That said, I would NEVER walk around with more than a couple hundred in cash. If the seller won’t take a bank check, then the transaction is done AT a bank.
I can’t remember the last time I sold a car to someone I didn’t know personally (or at least a family member of a friend) though. I take personal checks from my friends. And I have a number of repeat customers. The guy buying my Fiat Abarth has bought three cars from me.
Over the years, I’ve bought, and sold, and traded, more cars and trucks, than I care to count.
I’ve done a few private deals, always with someone, myself, or one of my friends, personally knows. In those days a cashiers check, was as good as cash.
I’m 61 years old, and have probably bought my last car. Should that situation change ? I’ll take my chances with the dealer.
This story was on our local news the other night too, I think the couple’s children live in our local area so it made headlines.
Couple things I don’t understand: placing a “wanted ad” for a car, and driving 180 miles for a classic car on craigslist?? As has been mentioned, old Mustangs are not rare or hard to find advertised, if anything its hard to be sure you have looked everywhere they are advertised, its information overload. Even if they wanted a particular color or option, there are much better ways to find it than a wanted ad on craigslist which is basically just local. And Craigslist is pretty much the dregs of internet car sales ads… not bad for local bargain hunting, but to invest a 3-hr road trip to see one was a poor decision already. I could understand doing that for a well reputed dealer or something but not a CL ad.
Still a tragedy and I feel bad for the people who were taken advantage of. But all the safety tips in the world aren’t going to save you from the crazies. My wife is the most cautious person in the world, but she got gas one night and attracted the attention of a stalker who followed her and exhibited definite behavior that he planned to rape her or worse… he literally hid in the bushes and removed his underwear while stalking her, he even admitted this to police. They were as helpful as they could be, but in the end since he didn’t actually touch her there was little they could do. He is on probation and lives 2 miles away from us, and she has never been the same since. She has a CWP and .38 Special in her possession at all times now.
I could definitely see me driving 180 miles to see an Olds Touring Sedan or a ’79 Catalina or something similar. Other than CL where would I find something like that?
@ajla – yes I agree, because those are relatively obscure cars that have a limited market. CL is a good place to find those, as is eBay, and you may have to travel to find the right one. Neither is as ubiquitous as an old Mustang.
@alja….EBay, Hemmings to name two. bar and click.Or simply type 1966 Mustang into your search bar and click.
I’m not looking for a ’66 Mustang. I check Hemmings and eBAY all the time for stuff relevant to my interests but the inventory of most late 70s and 80s cars on CL is way higher than what is on eBAY or Hemmings at any given time.
“but to invest a 3-hr road trip to see one was a poor decision already. I could understand doing that for a well reputed dealer or something but not a CL ad.”
People do it all the time. I do it, people I know do it, people who have bought things from me have done it and come from a lot further away than that. It’s not a big deal.
180 miles to get a particular classic Mustang isn’t unusual at all. Yes, there are many of them, but condition varies greatly as to asking prices etc. etc. It’s not like buying a 2006 Civic at all.
I’m thinking that the couple, might not have been aware, of just how easy it is to find your “dream car” on the interwebs. My heart goes out to the family. How sad, to live to that stage of life, and have it snatched away, by some low life.
Right now, as I type this, there are 61 1966 Mustangs available on ebay. I never got the whole “wanted to buy” thing. You take away your bargaining power because you’ve already admitted you want the car and you announce to every tweaker idiot in the world that you’ve got a huge wad of disposable cash in your hand. Recipe for a bad deal at best and what happened here at worst.
“Hey honey, let’s drive to rural Georgia with 20 grand in cash to meet a stranger.”
I’m surprised Darwin didn’t take care of this couple sooner.
Well, it’s sad. A tire iron upside the head and a much lighter wallet would be an expected lesson from something like this, not death.
I wonder if we’ll get more details of how they were dispatched. I wonder if they fought for the money or if the guy was just a sadist. Judging by the looks of them, it probably wasn’t much of a fight. The stupid redneck didn’t need to kill them.
I guess this could have happened to me when I went to a stranger’s house alone with a cashier’s cheque for $7000 to buy his Firebird Formula back in 2001, that was off of a classified ad in the Denver Post.
We all take risks. I don’t think this is Darwin Award material, just a sad story of people who were too trusting.
When I sold the Kia I made it clear that I would only meet at the bank. INSIDE the bank. No way I’m taking anything but cash for a car, and no way I want 11 grand cash in my house at any given point and time.
I’m with with you. My last car I bought in CL we met at my bank. After review of the car etc we agreed to terms and he came in and watched me go to the counter and get a certified check made out to him. Pretty easy to keep both the buyer and seller at ease that the transaction is on the up and up. If you are dealing with someone with less than stellar intentions they will not want to meet at a bank with lots of cameras. All problems solve themselves before occurring with the correct set up initially.
If your meeting at a bank why not just have them verify the cashiers check? Or be present when the buyers bank prints it. If I was spending 11K on something that’s all you’d get from me or no sale. I’m not walking around with 11K cash in my pocket for nobody.
87 Morgan you beat me to it.
So to you guys saying….”meet at the bank”….I rarely buy a used car at initial inspection. I want to go over it like a fly on sh!t, pull a tire or two, check brakes, check undercarraige, test drive, inspect his title and repair invoices etc. How do I do that in a bank, parking lot? If I seem to eager to buy, the seller has a negotiating edge. I wait a day or two then call him back. If I lose the car…”oh well”…on to the next.
I actually feel more ill at ease meeting someone in a random parking lot rather than at their home. If I don’t like the neighborhood I just keep going. As far a selling, I still do it at home, before test driving my car, I ask for two forms of ID including drivers license and I photo copy both before they drive the car. They must leave their car which I put in my garage. If we make a deal, we do it on the desk in my garage. They never come into the house. And I’m always sure not to be alone, even if I’m carrying.
You just do the financial transaction at the bank. The tire kicking can happen wherever.
I’ve never had an issue with going to someone’s house, or having someone come to my place. But I am not dealing in cash (in car buying quantities) anywhere but at a bank. If the person ONLY wants cash, fine, it goes from the bank’s hands to theirs. If they want a check, they can see the bank take the money from my account and cut them a bank check.
FWIW, this looks like it might be the Craigslist ad:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/wan/4854409074.html
Morbid. Ugh. I reported it and hope they take it down. I don’t want that poor family getting calls on their deceased loved one’s cell phone.
Looks to be the correct ad. Posted 8 days ago by a man named Bud.
I find it sad that anyone would try to blame the Victims here .
And beyond pathetic that racer-esq couldn’t wait to dump his vitriolic crazy-@$$ed tirade in where it’s clearly so inappropriate .
-Nate
I have a buddy of mine who buys all his guitar stuff off Craigslist. He seems to have a knack for finding good deals and has never had anything go wrong. I’ve bought exactly one thing off Craigslist, a Triumph Trophy. That purchase went fairly well.
My issue with Craigslist is the noise-to-signal ratio. I just don’t have the patience to wade through all the ads that have every word in Roget’s Thesaurus in the tags.
About the only way to find bargains is by doing a global Craigslist search and finding something that’s not selling in its local market. You can find some bargains on the Goodwill site, but collectors know about that too.
I’ve bought and sold a ton of crap on CL. It’s probably best to meet in a public place and (if buying something more valuable) make it clear that you will acquire the cash after viewing it. Any seller who isn’t okay with this should just be avoided.
Correct. Structure the transaction in a fashion that favors your personal safety. A public place with lots of witnesses, etc. This isn’t always a guarantee because bystanders, believe it or not, do not always notice that someone is assaulting you…and those who do are not likely to intervene. Still it is enough to scare off many bad guys.
This sort of thing has happened before. Anyone in Ontario is familiar with the name Tim Bosma who was murdered when two people came to look at a Dodge pickup he was selling. The murder trial is still before the courts.
My 2 cents:
Most “normal” people have absolutely no clue how bad guys work. If you have a job and a family and pay your taxes, odds are you’re a “normal” person and you’re completely unaware that there are literally millions of predators on 2 legs floating through society around you. People who’s entire day consists of, to borrow a phrase from a wise man, getting up at 3 pm, smoking a rock of crack, and figuring out how to hurt you and take your stuff.
The people who have that life agenda have made it a lifestyle and have gotten away with victimizing others in the past. Partly because of luck. Partly because of poor police work. Partly because of the judicial system’s general preference for low-hanging fruit. So they really do think they can kill you and get away with it.
You also have to understand how much of an opportunist criminals are. The best advice I can give is to watch a few documentaries on how grizzly bears live and forage for food. Human predators operate exactly the same way…only **you’re** the food.
We’re often taught not to judge books by their cover, but I’m telling you straight up: There’s a reason why you feel a vague sense of discomfort when you encounter some people or situations. Sometimes your amygdala recognizes danger and it’s a bad idea to use your “rational” brain to talk yourself out of obedience to a survival instinct. Listen to it. Obey it. Don’t let social convention and the idea of social expectations push you further into a situation where you are vulnerable.
FWIW, I give the exact same advice to young women at risk for sexual assault. When I talk to survivors of bad things there were almost always signs that something wasn’t right which they either ignored or took no action on…often talking themselves out of what their instincts wanted them to do.
Fantastic comment. Thanks for posting.
So, like when you were three and your parents said, “Don’t talk to strangers” they weren’t kidding?
Sadly ;
No they weren’t .
I met and luckily escaped from *so* many pedophiles it makes my head spin .
I’m so very lucky to still be alive .
-Nate
Really, were you an alter boy?
@Lie2me
Ouch.
Why is it that the Catholic church gets a bad rep for pedophiles but the public school system, which seems to attract females who have a thing for teen boys, gets a pass?
You must shiver every time you see a white panel van drive by.
It’s pretty sound advice. The totality of the circumstances should be considered, but often the totality of the circumstances are. Most people would not feel uncomfortable if an 80 year old woman approached them in the COSTCO parking lot at 3 PM and asked if they could help her load her purchases into the trunk of her car. A couple of dudes with face tats and hoodies who approach? Different story…and for good reason.
The ruse is an important part of street crime like armed robbery. Murder on the street often starts out as robbery…so when you see people who make you uncomfortable or situations that give you that creepy feeling, get the hell out of there.
You either wrote or read the same book I did. In fact the book was aimed primarily at women. My wife gave it to me to read. By your post, you sound like the author. Great book, now I’m gonna spend the rest of the day trying to remember the title.
No , never an Altar Boy ;
I learned by age 6 that anyone who brings Religion into any conversation in a few minutes is not only inherently dishonest but likely a sexual predator to boot .
This pisses me off because I have unshakable faith .
I left home when I was 8 Y.O. and back then I was a skinny blue eyed kid with straw blond hair ~ every pedophiles dream it seems .
Back then there were no ” raper vans ” as my young Son once said .
The really bad ones would just drive up and grab you . toss you head first into the big old American Sedan and roar off for some twisted ‘ fun ‘ .
EDIT : I see this post is in approval limbo , I don’t see why , no bad words , just the facts as I lived them .
-Nate
I’m sorry about your experiences, Nate, but “I left home when I was 8 Y.O” ? How does this happen? 8 year old children haven’t left home since Huckleberry Finn and even he was 12 or 13
I suspect that carrya1911 is in law enforcement and the author of said book may have been too. That’s probably the shared perspective.
The author of the book was in law enforcement, detective I believe. The stories were from his life experiences. It has been over 10 years since I read that book but as I soon as I read his post I thought about the book. What he said and how he said it pretty much mirrors the book and sounds like the same person.
Driving me crazy as I have the title on the tip of my tongue. I’ll bug my wife when she comes home tonight. She’ll probably remember. Really a good read.
There are a number of books out there which relate a lot of key information about how bad guys work. A good simple direct one that a friend just told me about the other day is this one from a retired police officer and now full-time firearms trainer Tom Givens:
https://www.createspace.com/5230622
Mr. Givens has taught thousands of people about self defense and to this point nearly 70 of his students have had to use lethal force. All 70 of them have succeeded without significant injury and without any legal trouble. I wish the police academy trainers had a record that good…
The Gift of Fear, by Gavin De Becker
Yes indeed….Your comment was well worth the 2 cents.
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…? We all know the rest.
Trust your gut. When you get that feeling that something just isn’t quite right, pay attention to that.
I’ve sold numerous items on Craig’s list, furniture, electronics etc. and have never had an issue. I also purchased my current vehicle from Craig’s list and the transaction was smooth as silk. We met at the owners home who happened to be the second owner. He was quite meticulous person who had all of the paperwork, service records, receipts including Car-fax. Really no different than the Penny Saver of years past.
Tragic end to this couple in pursuit of their dream, but posting something of this nature on CL can bring out the scumbags. Same thing with CL’s hook up sections, you just might get laid with no commitment, but you’re at risk of being robbed when that hot chick has three big guys waiting to pound your head in for money.
I’ve bought, sold and given away plenty of crap on online classified sites and dealt with a few weirdo’s, cheapskates, scammers etc. but was never in danger.
Meeting in a public place might work for popular, high turnover items like iPhone, IPads etc. but they’re probably stolen IMHO.
For cars meet them at their house so you can start it, hear it run, etc.
If it’s a deal get the cash after, never bring cash before making a deal, tell them you’ll be back. If you miss out, there will always be others, slow and steady wins the race.
“Tragic end to this couple in pursuit of their dream….” Very sad indeed. They should have had backup.
It appears they were very trusting. And it turned out to be their fatal mistake.
I guess being a 6′ tall, 250lbs+ younger white dude has me bumbling through life all naiive about the possible threats. I’ve always subscribed to the theory put forth by my 5’10”, 225lb college roommate: “Maybe I’ll beat you, and maybe you’ll beat me, but it ain’t gonna be fun for either one of us.” I’ve gotten in bar fights in Jamaica and walked with a couple chicks down dark alleys in Paris, getting eye’d up by skinny punks in doorways. I’m no Billy Bada$$, but again, you just gotta be faster than the slowest gazelle.
I’m just sad you didn’t write that post BTSR-style — lots of excessive capitalization, a couple of spelling mistakes, plus a weirdly out of place reference to your manhood.
Decades ago, an acquaintance who drove a Corvette & a Porsche 914, put the 914 up for sale in the local classifieds. A guy showed up and asked to take a test drive. Owner obliged, rode along with him. The perp shot the owner in the back of the head, tossed the body out in the boonies near the local Drive-In, the fled from the bay area to LA. He was found a week later, driving the car he murdered for, still with the same plates on it.
Sad tale and shocking when it happened.
The book that Carrya1911 and others have cited is “The Gift of Fear,” by Gavin de Becker. De Becker makes some good points.
Reading these posts jogged a memory – I was walking through a sorta-sketchy neighborhood with a couple of friends one night, and I noticed a guy behind me. He was carrying a cover for a tennis racquet (but *no* racquet – there was probably some type of weapon in it). When the guy behind me realized that I’d gotten a pretty good look at him, he seemed to change his mind about something. Lucky me – my friends and I made it back to our cars safely.
Tragic it is. I hope the (convicted) perp fries in a malfunctioning electric chair. I can only say I would feel funny about placing a want ad on Craigslist or anything of that ilk. It seems to shout “scammers look here!”. I once posted a want ad for a relatively obscure part for an antique auto on AACA and even for something as specialized as this I got several replies from scammers, most of whom couldn’t even be bothered to try and make a convincing story. Thieves are not necessarily brain surgeons… I have had several dealings buying selling (cars & other things) on CL with no issues but it certainly could happen. Good ideas about transacting large sums inside a bank.
” I’m sorry about your experiences, Nate, but “I left home when I was 8 Y.O” ? How does this happen? 8 year old children haven’t left home since Huckleberry Finn and even he was 12 or 13 ”
Short answer : why go home when every day it is made clear that you’re not wanted there ?.
I read Mark Twain’s books when I was 6 / 7 years old and was too young and ignorant (different than stupid) to realize they were just stories & not ideas to copy….
Don’t feel sorry for me ~ I’m fine and only skip meals when I want blah blah blah .
-Nate
I was in jail with this guy. I’m from McRae. He said he didn’t do it. He also said he didn’t use drugs, but after talking to people they say he was on drugs. You can see how skinny he was in his arrest photo vs how big he is now. My theory is he was strung out and needed money. The evidence seems really strong against him in my opinion. Just really really sad. My heart goes out to victims family.