Cadillac finally revealed its 2016 CTS-V performance sedan at the 2015 Detroit Auto Show, but the brand also let it be known that it’s considering taking on the Mercedes-Benz CLA in the entry-level premium game, as well [Live photos now available – CA].
The CTS-V derives its power from a 640-horsepower supercharged 6.2-liter V8 with a 1.7-liter supercharger, direct injection, and GM’s Active Fuel Management system onboard. Torque is 630 lb-ft, top speed is 200 mph, and zero to 60 comes in 3.7 seconds. A paddle-shifted eight-speed automatic with launch control and Performance Algorithm Shifting directs the power to the back.
Suspension is comprised of a revised multi-link double-pivot MacPherson-strut up front, five-link rear out back. Stiffer front and rear stabilizers reduce body roll by 20 percent, electronic limited-slip differential and 19-inch forged aluminum wheels shod in Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires maintain grip on the road and track, and two-piece 15.3-inch front rotors with 6-piston calipers — 14.3-inch discs with 4-piston calipers in the back — help bring everything to a stop.
Other features include: Magnetic Ride Control with four selectable driving modes; enhanced aero; carbon fiber hood with air-extracting vent for reduced lift and heat; 20-way heated and vented front seats; OnStar 4G LTE with Wi-Fi; 12.3-inch instrument cluster display; and wireless inductive phone charging.
As for the CLA fighter, Cadillac CEO Johan de Nysschen admits entry-level premium offerings like the CLA and Audi A3 have put a dent in ATS sales. However, Cadillac’s entry-level model will be RWD, underpinned by the same platform that the ATS rides upon.
The CTS-V is expected to enter showrooms later this summer.
The fail continues unabated.
I’m so confused. Are they going to make a smaller ATS with a worse engine? How and why? I’m sure the one complaint about the ATS in GM focus groups is that it is just much to spacious.
I’m imagining a tiny Cadillac RWD hatchback with a 1.5T!
Get ready for The Cimmaron Strikes Back because that’s whats coming.
Alpha is probably very expensive and so far its offerings have been a dud. The beancounters will point to Verano’s success and spin something else up like it on a cheap platform.
Johan the Zohan was brought into oversee a similar strategy to what VAG did with Audi. I didn’t make the connection till now but he was talking about six or seven new models a few weeks ago right? Audi went from something like four US models to six in maybe eight years (A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8 and the fake trucks that go with them). Look for Cadillac to do the same, RenCen is trying to build a premium volume brand. Good luck. One thing I’ll give VAG is the Audi models offered after 1991 were so terrible long term they are mostly off the street so folks forget that those models… were basket cases for many. Cadillac still has many old beaters running around since the late 80s, their bull**** branding hypnosis won’t work as well.
is it a luxury car or a performance car? hard to tell anymore.
Audi or Cadillac?
Your buddy Zohan says it’s going to be RWD though. Who will buy a RWD Caddy that is smaller than an ATS? How do they make a car smaller ins!de than the ATS? People are buying CLAs and A3s because of the badge. The Caddilac badge doesn’t matter anymore.
He says alot of things, he also defended the ridiculous price increases and then cut the price. Its possible they will spin up an Alpha CUV as we at TTAC had suggested, but then again if that’s true then Alpha must be a cheaper platform than I/we thought. I’m betting on the beancounters personally and the upcoming Delta III.
I can’t see them rolling with an Alpha CUV. People buying luxury CUVs care even less then sedan buyers about their vehicles being FWD or RWD based. In the luxury segment, AWD is the go to anyway. Without even bringing up Acura, Lexus, and the Germans, an Alpha CUV would get crushed by the MKC and MKX.
GM only has a finite amount of RWD platforms so unless there’s an Alpha II in the works and if the Zohan is to believed, I can’t see how it wouldn’t be the current Alpha. Unless I’m right on Delta III or another platform, and the Zohan just can’t be believed.
I think it depends on the execution. I might buy a smaller RWD Caddy. Lincoln doesn’t have anything interesting. I don’t need the ongoing expense of a BMW. So if the Caddy comes in with 250+ HP and a 6/7/8 speed autobox or a manual, I might be in.
@1998S90
I thought that’s what ATS is aimed to be, why not it?
1998S90-
Have you looked at the ATS? Because that is certainly a small Caddy.
I was only referring to Lincoln stomping Caddy in the CUV space. An AWD CUV that is based on the Alpha platform would be terrible.
Not necessarily, b/c Cadillac at the present is planning on its sub-entry model to remain RWD.
It’s the Cadillac of Chevettes!
Ha
“I’m imagining a tiny Cadillac RWD hatchback with a 1.5T!”
Cadillac ULC:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Cadillac_ULC_concept_–_2011_DC.jpg
Noooooooooooooooooo
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cadillac_ULC_concept_–_2011_DC.jpg
Two hyphens, not just one, in the URL.
The CLA and Audi A3 have put a dent in ATS sales b/c they have about as much interior room as the ATS which is too cramped inside for its segment.
Keep in mind that Cadillac will be rectifying the interior room issue with the next ATS (which will grow a good bit larger) so something just a bit smaller than the current ATS would be spot on for Cadillac’s sub-entry model.
JdN NEVER said the CLA/A3 slayer would be SMALLER than the ATS. He said it will be “entry-level”. Here’s how the line-up will look:
-CT6: Flagship (until 7, 8 and 9 added)
-CT5: Renamed CTS after next restyle.
-CT4: Slightly stretched ATS, “coming with length” after next restyle, addresses rear legroom, trunk space.
-CT3: “Entry level” version of current ATS after restyle. Won’t be any smaller, just cheaper to compete with CLA/A3. Priced to start at $30,000. Others then.maintain their current price levels, similiar line-up with C/SUV’s Escalade at the top.
So…
CT6 – We don’t know
CT5 – Stretched Alpha sedan
CT4 – Stretched Alpha sedan
CT3 – New Cadillac Cimmaron
CT2 – Cadillac Spark
CT1 – Cadillac Bicycle
What-a-plan.
CT0 – Cadillac Unicycle.
+1
That’s just the ATS still. So their solution to the ATS problem is this:
1. Continue building ATS
2. Call it a different name
3. ?????
4. Profit?
1) Will restyle current ATS.
2) Call it CT3.
3) Make it the entry level Caddy.
4) Sell a crap load if priced starting at $30,000 to compete with CLA/A3. Make big $$$’s.
Problem solved. JdN declared a genius.
What’s stopping them from cutting the price now? If JdN really is a genius and they would sell a crapload at $30k, why are they waiting? We are in a booming market and the ATS is still too expensive to compete. Waiting makes zero sense.
I wouldn’t hold my breath. When you are shrinking dramatically in an expanding market you have to accept you are doing alot of stuff wrong. Jettison it all, the s***** styling, the s***** motors, the s***** pricing, the s***** sizing, and the s***** models, go back about fifty years in terms of product quality, value, and perception, and they might have a shot
The backseat of the ATS is too large, its motors are too refined, its price too low, its gauges too lovely and its build quality/reliability is too good.
They obviously need a Cruze rebadge & a CHEVY SPARK BASED CUV:
http://www.netcarshow.com/cadillac/2010-urban_luxury_concept/1024×768/wallpaper_13.htm
Brilliant! You should get your resume over to RenCen so they can make you Cadillac chief when the Zohan flies the coop.
A rebadged Cruze may actually be more logical. What smaller RWD platform do they have? I honestly can’t imagine a smaller RWD Cadillac sedan than the current ATS. And how does an even lower tier model mesh with their strategy to become a true premium brand? You can only start “slumming it” with cheap luxo models when you’ve already got the brand cachet. Good luck to them trying to go downmarket and upmarket at the same time.
Deadweight – Your brilliance is buried beneath your subtlety.
BINGO! What Cadillac fails to see is that people aren’t buying the MB CLA because it is a great car or because it’s a small coupe (excluding the AMG version). They are buying it because it is a cheap Mercedes Benz. Period. Full stop. Unless Cadillac can make a small Mercedes Benz, why bother. Stick to more profitable segments and build brand value.
“As for the CLA fighter, Cadillac CEO Johan de Nysschen admits entry-level premium offerings like the CLA and Audi A3 have put a dent in ATS sales.”
Yes Zohan, that has it be it!
“However, Cadillac’s entry-level model will be RWD, underpinned by the same platform that the ATS rides upon.”
If you like your ATS shortcomings, you can keep your ATS shortcomings under a different name.
Hey now, maybe if the ATS was sold at a lower price and aimed at a different market, it suddenly would become a massive success!
Or maybe the ATS just doesn’t work at all as is and need a thorough rethinking, but nah, clearly those geniuses at Cadillac just need better marketing!
“ATS was sold at a lower price and aimed at a different market”
Then that would be admitting obvious failure, don’t hold your breath. One of the reasons for the bankruptcy was not admitting obvious failure internally and externally so I see nothing has changed. Just like nothing changed on Wall Street, in UAW, or Washington. Heck the only thing that has changed from the bailout or “Nintendo Reset button” as I think of it, is Chrysler has emerged as a serious competitor.
“clearly those geniuses at Cadillac just need better marketing”
We have top men working on it right now. Top Men… and a woman. Wait I take it back its just Skippy the Pen Boy and CT Mel-o-dy.
As it is, the ATS doesn’t make much sense to me. Adding something based on the ATS but below it would only make even LESS sense than the ATS does now.
Then again, I don’t know why the current Regal even exists and what makes it different from the Verano, so what do I know about modern day GM?
Sense it makes is zero but they probably inherited it after the bailout and were stuck with it. I would have gone Sigma III and waited for funding for something better but then again I’m a cautious cat.
“I don’t know why the current Regal even exists”
It should not exist in North America, my guess the reason it does exist is internal GM politics regarding Opel.
Rebadge the ATS as a Pontiac G6, improve the gauge cluster beyond circa-1990s Buick Century, dramatically improve its reliability, and cut the MSRP to $21,999 with a stick, and BOOM!
Wasn’t that the Lutz plan?
This seems like the “turn Cadillac into Pontiac and Buick into Saab” idea I had a while ago.
Cadillac has been trying to pretend for years(in marketing materials anyway) that they are an “import fighter”. I think they’ve lost all credibility by this point that they can actually pull this off.
I think they should be making cars that are good in and of themselves, and letting consumers decide to buy them on their own merits, not because they are a successful copy of somebody else’s car.
Explicitly targeting (and slightly surpassing) a competitive vehicle can work, but not when you try (and usually fail) at it for decades on end. Nobody wants to take a chance when the target vehicle is the “safe choice”.
No need to fix the ATS, on to the next product. More CUE, and a dash layout from a ’95 Buick are sure to lure in the CLA crowd.
So instead of improving the ATS so it’ll actually sell by doing something about the 9 cubic foot trunk or hilariously bad rear headroom they’re gonna make an even cheaper and likely smaller version of the ATS that’ll sell even worse. Wow. Yes, please give your customers exactly what they don’t want.
Who thought those ridiculous headlights were a good idea?
I’m not sure why but I was really expecting more HP, zero-60 is only 0.2 seconds faster than the outgoing CTS-V.
The ATS is a disaster, and the badge on the trunk that says it’s either a turbo 4 or a 3.6l is embarrasing for a product wearing the Cadillac badge.
The only thing more embarrassing is no badge at all. 2.5, if you please?
I think that the 2.5 is even an option is the most inexcusable aspect of the ATS. There is barely any fuel efficiency gain over the 2.0T, but it is obviously waaaay down on power and torque. Your sporty luxury sedan shouldn’t be slower than an extended cab F-150 with the 2.7EB. An intentionally absurd comparison, but they cost about the same and the truck is over 1,000 pounds heavier (not to mention the crew cab’s backseat is probably more comfortable…zing!).
The “3.6” badge is funny to me too. What else? “FUEL INJECTED”? “ABS”?
Is it to send a message to prospective BMW buyers? What about “VINYL SEATS”???
Right on. My ’87 Celebrity proudly wore two (two!) conspicuous badges trumpeting its fire-breathing “2.8 Multiport V6”. Maybe Caddy needs some of the old GM badge charm back.
They need to bring back the small “GM Mark of Excellence” badge in silver plastic rear of the front wheel wheels, pre-BK GM style.
“Entry-level premium” is supposed to be Buick’s job?
“Cadillac’s entry-level model will be RWD, underpinned by the same platform that the ATS rides upon.”
Wut. Why? The ATS isn’t “entrly level” enough? Step aside and let Buick do this.
Ironically you know what would have probably worked better, at least from a product standpoint, would be to have just sold rebadged Saabs as the ATS. Cost of production aside, if they had just built whatever Saab was building in say OSHAWA or better utilized Wilmington before it was closed the ATS critics all over the world would have had little fodder for their arguments.
To paraphrase an GM exec from the ‘bad old days,’ an entry-level $29,995 Cadillac should be a CPO CTS.
Lexus is the new Cadillac.
Uh oh…..
No not today’s Cadillac, Lexus is what Cadillac is supposed to be.
Today’s Cadillac is a flashy Geo.
Until we get the new Cimarron, then you can delete the word flashy
“Today’s Cadillac is a flashy Geo”. Until we get the new Cimarron, then you can delete the word flashy
There’s a Cadillac-Buick-KIA dealership about 12 miles from my house.
Each brand is housed in a separate building/showroom.
The KIA building was added about 2 1/2 years ago, whereas the Cadillac & Buick dealerships were built back in 2010.
As the GM of the entire dealership told me, “Thank god we added that KIA dealership because it saved our a$$.”
They had a ‘just tell us what you’ll pay us!” sales event at the Buick Dealer around Christmas & I think it was no haggle 20% to 25% off many Buicks. That’s the busiest I’ve ever seen the GM portion of the dealer.
Serra? Don’t they have GMC to prop them up too?
Adding Hyundai and Kia saved Glassman in Southfield too. They were a Pontiac and Olds dealership before adding Hyundai, Kia, and now Subaru.
Yep.
Forgot they had GMC.
In summary: “Cadillac. Never lead, always follow.”
Perhaps they should also copy the Honda Super Cub. It is the most successful motor vehicle in history, so Cadillac needs to compete.
Beard trimmers and vacuum cleaners sell by the boatload, why isn’t Cadillac addressing those markets?
I would buy a Cadillac beard trimmer, but only if I can get it with real buttons instead of CUE.
The Cadillac beard trimmer will not be adjustable. It’s only length will be “Brooklyn Hipster”, because that’s who cadillac wants to sell cars to now.
Fix the ats and lower the cost. Job done. Where’s my consulting fee?
You will be paid in Old GM stock.
I’m not sure I asked for a 600 or 700 HP Cadillac. But anything above 450 HP would only be appreciated, or noticed by street racers. All I want is 400ish HP simple 5.3 V8 in an everyday base CTS. I’m OK with Nav and sunroof if included, but I rarely need to set the hamburgerkingdrivethruring on fire. When I need the occasional smoky donuts in the parking lot or a nasty sideways burnout, I don’t need 600+ HP.
Less focus on the specialty Hot Rods and more on the bread & butter.
Mtlqq.pk how many do I get?
We’ll take whatever Rick Wagoner has left and give it to you.
God I wish I could work at Cadillac; it’s apparent they have NO CLUE as to what they’re doing. It’s hilariously sad.
I agree, but do you want to work at a place where people are this clueless?
Yet another vehicle which (like the 4C cabrio) absolutely does not work in white. Dem panel gaps do.
This is gross.
I thought the same thing. I usually like white cars, but this looks hideous in white. The black color is OK, but only because it sort of hides the garish vents and louvers.
Ah, yes, the five minutes’ hate continues unabated…
Tough love for the latch key kid.
But no spleen venting over this God-awful creature…
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/01/naias-2015-lexus-expands-f-lineup-2016-gs-f/
…which looks like a reject from the concept art of Mobile Suit Gundam and would get thoroughly fornicated by this CTS.
It’s old, 28.
Cadillac runs deep. They were MY luxury brand.
I don’t care what Lexus does (although they at least seem willing to put a naturally aspirated V8 into a car).
Ajla echos my thoughts.
Believe me that GS has some stuff wrong with it but its not the worst thing to buy in its segment. Lexus has fifteen years worth of product to choose from, granted some of it a little boring or lackluster. Cadillac hasn’t built a product since 1995 I would buy with *your* money let alone mine, and this includes Escalade.
“Ah, yes, the five minutes’ hate continues unabated…”
With a snarling V8,, a well sorted, stiff chassis, compliant ride, good build quality & reliability, something CLOSE to this would sell the way Cadillac can only now dream of:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1409-cadillac-ct6-is-brands-all-new-flagship/photo_10.html
You’re welcome, Cadillac!
You’re welcome , Mike!
I think a lot of the people on the site “hating” on Cadillac have owned multiple Cadillacs and GM vehicles in their lifetimes.
GM told their traditional customers to pound sand and went to chase after the German brands. However, it turns out those buyers weren’t all that interested in buying a Roundel copy-cat and now it is all crumbling down where the only thing they can sell in a booming market is a CUV with a standard V6 and a huge-chrome-flashy BOF SUV with a 6.2L V8.
Spot on, ajla.
I was about to say “Geez, it’s a bit negative in here, yeah?”, but your points are well taken.
Right, ajla, but the “traditional luxury car” market – i.e., folks who want a chrome-festooned boat with no road feel or performance cred – has been shrinking for a long time now. That’s why Cadillac (and Lincoln) told them to “pound sand” – the old folks who bought “traditional” Cadillacs were literally a dying market.
So, if your argument were correct, and “traditional” Cadillacs were the ticket, then they wouldn’t be able to make the XTS fast enough, because it’s as close to a “traditional” Caddy as you’ll get. The sales charts tell a different story.
I’d also say as far as the Escalade is concerned, they’ve pretty much cornered the market, but the market for glitzy, BOF SUVs is limited, if lucrative. Who would they really steal sales from – Lincoln? The Navigator isn’t a huge seller. The brand wouldn’t survive just making Escalades (or SUVs).
That means they have compete against brands like BMW or Mercedes, and you can’t do that with an XTS-type car either – you need RWD platforms, and those are going to be “untraditional” Cadillacs. It’s just going to take time for them to build market cred. And to that end, producing a sedan that could run with a M5 is by no means a bad move.
I argue they can’t effectively compete against zee Germans with inferior product and it shows. Alpha might be better than its counterparts but when you f*** up everything from passenger space, the motor, the styling, and the interior feel, you’re gonna fail. The bitter irony is zee Germans can afford to screw up and decontent some offerings and their lemming customers don’t seem to mind. Cadillac cannot afford to screw things up and they do over and over. The lemmings that stuck through them through 4100 and Northstar are literally dying. They need to be awesome for a time in order to acquire new lemmings, er repeat customers. A great way to turn off a potential customer is to charge a hefty premium for a screwed up product. I hate Apple with a venom but they seem to build relatively solid products, except where they screw you for things like a user replaceable battery (unless this changed). People pay a premium for what they perceive to be a good product. People will not when the product perception is clouded in hubris from the mfg. I would love some honesty out of Cadillac’s mouthpieces and not newspeak which makes the leadership sound like they ate lead chips for breakfast. We screwed up. We’re sorry. This is what we want to do next.
Do you think that the 300, A7, LS460, and Genesis Sedan are “chrome-festooned boats”? I’m not talking about bringing back a 1975 De Ville Brougham.
The XTS is far from a first-rate effort from GM. It’s also smaller inside than any Deville ever, filled with unintuitive technology, and is V6 powered- so I don’t think it appeals that much to Cadillac
Plus if you want to talk sales, Cadillac was down 6.5% this year in a hot buying environment. We aren’t just piling on here. The market isn’t buying these cars.
Cadillac has been chasing Germany in earnest since 1997 and arguably even before that. How long do they get to “build market cred” before the experiment is deemed a failure?
Mike, remember the fantastic advice I gave Cadillac, you & everyone who wants Cadillac to succeed, above?
Just 86 it.
Why?
Because GM is too incompetent to save (a second time).
“General Motors has splashed cold water on hopes that Cadillac’s upcoming CT6 sedan will be inspired by the Elmiraj concept.”: http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac-ct6-wont-look-like-elmiraj.html
Good job, Johan Zohan.
Finally give/show long-suffering Cadillac fans something to get erect about, then slap their boners down with wicked malice!
You get it FreedMike
Well, having driven both the ATS and the CLA, it’s no contest anyway. The ATS is far better, that’s not even a point worth disputing to any reasonable person.
Of course there’s a lot of people here who like to get at Cadillac’s marketing, myself included, but there’s no reason to go completely off the rails. The CLA is no more than a nice Mazda3. In fact, I prefer the Mazda – at least you can see out of it and the steering is better, while the road noise is not much different.
So making a lower priced car to compete against the CLA should be a walk in the park for Cadillac engineers.
If my remarks offend any CLA owners, tough. You should have driven more than one car before signing the papers.
It doesn’t matter if it’s better. Adding a car beneath the ATS to compete with the CLA, A3, and whatever BMW is selling completely misses the point. People are buying those vehicles because of the brand. Cadillac has to either make a better car than the Germans for much less, or make something completely different.
There are some who merely request a Cadillac to have a reasonably sized rear seat & trunk!
They’re the easy-to-please ones.
But I’m sure the sub-ATS will dramatically improve rear seat & trunk space, because it will be smaller than the ATS.
The ATS has the same size trunk and rear leg-room than the A3. It is also nearly exactly the same dimensions in terms of track width etc.
The problem is that Cadillac continues to insist that it is a 3 series competitor when its actually a CLA and A3 competitor both in size and price.
Right. So in order to make the ATS competitive with the A3 and CLA, it needs to be cheaper, even if it is a better vehicle. I think it’s much better than the CLA or A3.
It’s the old 3 Series competitor.
Cadillac decision-makers made the inexplicable error in thinking that the compact segment sedans would not continue to grow.
Right, bball, but the way you make the car cheaper is to base it on the same platform as a volume selling FWD compact, which is what Audi did with the A3. It rides on the same platform as a VW Golf. The CLA is based on Mercedes’ FWD family sedans.
In theory, I don’t see how it wouldn’t be feasible for Cadillac to do the same, as long as the resulting car was visually and mechanically unrecognizable as a compact.
@Freedmike
The CLA is based on MB’s FWD Golf competitor. It IS their FWD family sedan. I think Americans have too much unnecessary baggage where Mercedes is concerned. As I have mentioned before, in the rest of the world they make everything from garbage trucks, to buses, to taxi cabs to the S-class, and no one thinks a thing of it. And their cars generally sell for higher prices elsewhere than they do here. Or at least the same prices for much lower specs.
Friend of my Mom’s just bought a CLA. Simply because she liked the looks of it. She thinks it’s “cute”. Mom loves it too, and every one around here I have seen is being driven by “women of a certain age”. A youth car it is not.
I do think Cadillac mostly just needs to fix the stupid little details, and have more realistic MSRPs. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with any of their current product, just 95% isn’t good enough today.
Yes, wmba and krhodes you get it. The rest is, sorry guys, nostalgia for a time that isn’t coming back.
I’d like to think GM has a grand plan for Cadillac. As a lot of things GM there are starts and stops. But the general idea is right.
No, V8s aren’t coming back. No, gigantic barges aren’t coming back.
CT6 and later CT9
They are coming back
The CT9 needs to be done because it lends credence. I’m much more interested in the 1 and 2. 6 is what again? ATS? seems a great car. with a few bugs. Keep at it, there you have a winner.
No one here believes that bringing back the ’73 Fleetwood would be successful for Cadillac.
However their attempted reincarnation of a 2001 BMW lineup is also not being successful.
The bottom line is that the ATS, ELR, and XTS aren’t very good compared to the competiton. The SRX is getting old and the CTS’s price exceeds the brand’s reputation in North America.
Cadillac is struggling, sales are poor and the words coming from their current leadership does not give me confidence that they can fix it.
And there’s the point. Many would think part of their line is as good if not better than the 2015 BMW line up. a miss here or there, sloppy or indifferent craftsmanship, a gauge a generation or two old, but dynamically?
It would seem they are doing it quite right.
Cadillac already have a CLA and A3 fighter – its the ATS. Looks up the dimensions – they are nearly identical.
However, the CTS-V is hot.
That’s what I was thinking. Cadillacs below the ATS should be Buicks IMO.
All the blackout scoops and slats and doodads make it look like a big 4 door Corvette, which is not necessarily a good thing IMO as all that blackout on the Corvette is my least favorite aspect of it.
Overwrought. And unnecessary. Cadillac should be like Rolls.
How much power does it have?
Enough.
Nobody’s going to actually race this thing. A CTS should naturally have enough power to press everybody back into their seat and pass the cars the middle incomes are driving without anxiety. It can’t do with less but it doesn’t need more. It certainly doesn’t need black accessories all over it to say, “I’m bad.” Unless rappers really are the market.
Hey Cadillac, wanna win? Make this first and work your way backward from there
http://i59.tinypic.com/qs5vrn.jpg
Everyone will see, know it’s a Cadillac, want it or want something that’s related to it
Well yeah that looks like a car worth buying, so naturally it doesn’t stand a chance of production.
Well, they’ve got to make something, I mean they have all this car making machinery just sitting around, why not?
Honestly what the brand needs is a real visionary, one which will come in and fire everyone and attract talented people to replace them. I don’t know enough about Elon Musk to call him a visionary, but he has been able to do impressive things with what is essentially an unprofitable (if not Ponzi scheme operation) company.
Elon Musk. The emperor with no clothes
28, Elon Musk? You can do better…Try Carlos Ghosn, try Marchionne. The guy you ridicule so much isn’t so bad, though it does seem he’s putting the cart before the horses. Even the guy from Ford, though he had a lot of support from the Ford family, could be a candidate. Musk is not an auto exec.
I was trying to think of a visionary in the vein of Jobs and Musk came to mind. I think Ghosn and Marchionne are brilliant but I don’t know if they are in the same league (maybe Marchionne for the FCA comeback).
28, respectfully sir. Ghosn. Putting together a French and a Japanese company. Dwell on that. French and Japanese. So much so that they are now joined at the hip. Re-launched Dacia, which with all variants is the 4th most sold platform the world over.
Marchionne still needs to prove his chops compared to Ghosn.
I get what you say, my friend, but no visionary stuff needed. Copy and better your rivals. The German car backlash is coming. Cadillac could be in a position to rise from that.
FWIW, in South America at least, Cadillac (though absent for 80 yrs) means something. Lexua, Acura, Infiniti? Don’t make me laugh.
Points taken on Ghosn as the man is incredibly impressive.
Question, do any Brazilians you know desire what Cadillac is currently offering and if so, why?
28, you see the occassional ElDorado at car shows, and you do see the Escalade sometimes (as much as the Navigator, so the argument there is for a large SUV, whatever provenance). An ATC, CTS (not the Panther impersonaor, are we talking the same car?) could do well here. A small Cadillac could do really well. No, they wouldn’t touch the Germans (not yet), but they would kick the lux Japanese trio (FWIW I see more Infinitis than Lexus or Acura – never, ever saw an Acura here). The game plan for me would be the same, work on it, get rid of the gauges (size is not that relevant here), keep it slick, the dynamics, keep it close to German but more luxurious (comfortable).
Fact is we don’t know what a Cadillac is since the 50s. We still know the name. Trucks it ain’t. V8s not necessarily. Not every moneyed Brazilian wants a German car (hint, hint Alfa, where are thou?). Japanese are virtual unknowns.
Cadillac still has a name. Chevies are still well regarded. the thing is the name. Cadillac still rings a bell.
Sounds like the folks at RenCen should be loading up container ships bound for Rio and Sao Paulo with all of the CTS and ATS models they can’t move here.
Btw CTS is the midsize sedan and ATS is its smaller sister model.
28, it won’t happen overnight. But the Camaro sold in such numbers (more the Mustang or Challenger, go figure) that GM had to officially import them. The name, the name. No V8s needed.
ATS. If it went for same price as A3 sedan…See it all the the time. looker. Like the design. If ATS has it beat with dynamics as some (most) say, future is good. Gaudy uo to a point, ok, Cadillac?
What is the President’s car? That is not needed. One step up from ATS, good. Keep it restrainded, turn down the front headlights a little, back is good.
Always confuse CTS with President’s car. President’s car in pigdin, no good.
I can’t speak for your nation or South America in any way, but it troubles me “the name” is all that matters. People in general need to look beyond a name or symbol.
In the 80s GM reused some of its famous names such as Lemans on some models which were not even in the same universe as their fore-bearers. While it may have worked, it stained those names forever and ultimately hurt the brands they came from at least IMO.
28, read the rest. Close to German, no floaty barges. More luxurious. The name is a building block. You know how much it costs to introduce a name here? Cadillac is half introduced. Lexus et al not. That is what I’m saying.
The ATS seems to do that in spades against A3, C and 3 terms of competence, ride comfort etc. Seems like it does. Poor gauges? The name covers. Small? Compared to an A3? Covered.
But no, floaty V8s with 4km/l won’t do it here.
Honestly then they should take the models international as soon as possible, they are not moving many of them here. US citizens are simply spoiled, we have access to German brands for similar money, and lease to lease for similar money more people choose the Germans. Personally already having that choice I’d rather get something different from Cadillac than wannabe “German”.
Night.
Marcello – you get Skoda & SEAT down there. I’d much rather have many of their sedan or coupe offerings than the ATS or CTS, and no, I’m not kidding.
In fact, I’m convinced that both a VW Golf AND Hyundai Sonata are more refined, solid, better finished, have better interior and exterior design, and have more utility than either the ATS or CTS, and at a much lower price.
What would the appeal of an ATS or CTS be to any Brazilian?
28, get your point, but the Germans have set the template worldwide. That is what people equate with luxury. That is why I say, no v8s needed. Also, keep it close to the Germans, but more comfortable. That is your differentiator tight there.
I get you 28, coming from where you are, but it’s not there anymore. Cadillac does not lead, it follows. Why does Alfa have trouble? Because it tries not to follow. Give me a FWD Alfa anyday over a German, but like Alfa need RWD, Cadillac has to stay close to the Germans.
Lexus et al are but a distraction right now. And yes, Cadillac needs to go international, just like Jeep is. You are not going to rise above 17 million sales annually soon. While respectfull, that is not 40% like in the recent past.
People, even rich people, had little access to ElDorados. They mean nothing. A 3 does. Cadillac does. But if Cadillac shows up with something radically different from 3, 3 wins. Improve on 3. Space is there. Luxury, ride, comfort at 95% capacity of 3. Tall ordre? Yes. But they wont set the template, especially on the old Cadillac.
Hey DeadWeight!
we don’t get the Skoda or SEAT. SEAT tried, a couple of times. Got their arses licked out. Skoda would happen the same. No one here thinks VW is premium. For us VW is the same as Fiat, Renault, Ford, Chevrolet. They can’t impersonate.
As to Hyundai they follow the Oriental school design of cars. Much ike the Jpanese, except worse (suspension, engine). When they sold at heavy discount ok. But here, most everyone thinks a Fusion is better than a Sonata.
I have not driven the ATS. But from prove and trusted sources (such as Derek) it owes nothing to the competition, except for the usual GM slopiness (gauges, size). Being that I drove a Sonata and was not impressed, and have driven many a Fusion, A3, even a 3, it’s not that hard.
In spite of the FWD I found the 156 (yes, back in 90s) better than c, equivalent to 3. I don’t think it’d be that hard for an ATS to come at a 3. Damn, a Fiat Marea Turbo fronm that time was as much fun as a 3.
As to Golf, I like this generation. Something about it, better than before. I always thought the Focus was better, Megane, Stilo, now I think the Golf is vream of the crop. Better than at least 4 generations or 5 back. Better tham BMW 1 (in most applications), better than A Class.
Not that hard.
Marcelo, thanks for the feedback from a Brazilian perspective.
Sorry for misspelling your 1st name (autospell check).
I assumed SEAT was available in Brazil b/c I saw so many in Mexico (dumb assumption, I know).
I wonder why SEAT couldn’t make it down there. Interesting stuff.
I thought ATS *was* the CLA/A3 competitor, but with not as nice interior and less refinement overall. Only later did I notice that someone had accidentally tacked on an extra $10K to the price. A typo, I’m sure.
If they are actually serious about making a car based off of ATS but smaller (with four seats), I suppose they can make the car taller. A Cadillac version of X1?
Less refinement than the CLA? Even the ATS does much better than that car. It feels like a Versa ins!de.
OK, you are right that CLA *is* pretty bad. Both a pretty bad excuse for a “luxury” car.
The CLA is a bigger POS than the ATS by a fairly wide margin in everything other than the engine & transmission categories.
The ATS was blessed with a very good chassis and (I think) good steering setup, and these two highlights elevate it over the abhorrent & grossly overpriced CLA.
Unfortunately, GM phoned in much of the rest of the details on the ATS in typical GM incompetent fashion.
Don’t diss the Versa, it has a *much* more accommodating rear seats and trunk. Happened to take an Uber ride in one, had plenty of clearance for my 6′ frame.
My comment was about feel. The Versa feels cheap because it is. The CLA feels cheap because Mercedes is shafting gullible brand-obsessed buyers.
DeadWeight, I’ll agree with you about Benz’s 7-speed being better than GM’s 6-speed auto, but I think the GM 2.0T is a considerably better engine than the Benz one. Smoother, better breathing, more linear torque curve.
I’d be shocked if the Versa did NOT have more real seat leg, head & hip room than the ATS – real world, not spec sheet.
If the ATS has less head room than a Versa, than I give up and you are right. It (Versa) has more leg room than much more expensive cars. But even its platfrom brother the Logan has more headroom in the back (not to mention hiproom). It would take a lot of great dynamics to offset that.
I know I’ll get flamed for saying this, but what the hell.
Does anybody else think it’s odd that the Hellcat Challenger is pretty much unanimously worshiped here, but the CTS-V is considered rubbish? Does anyone NOT think the CTS-V is easily 10 grand more car than the Hellcat? (even with 67 less HP)
And more importantly, why hasn’t DeadWeight mentioned Melody Lee yet?
“And more importantly, why hasn’t DeadWeight mentioned Melody Lee yet?”
Because you’re alright.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-25/what-i-wear-to-work-cadillacs-melody-lee
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/qCxWELDjquX/Artists+Wynwood+Walls+Honored+Miami/jqpL2cR1t8L/Melody+Lee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Urban_Luxury_Concept
Coming soon from Cadillac, the 2016 CT Mel-o-dy. Now with 20% more ditz by volume.
“Does anyone NOT think the CTS-V is easily 10 grand more car than the Hellcat? (even with 67 less HP)”
I don’t, and I’ll tell you ten years ago I would have never said such a thing. That’s how far the brand has fallen and Chrysler risen.
But dude, ‘Murican RWD V8 – not even a little love?
M’eh maybe if I drove it… but I still don’t think its 10K more car. The V6 Charger I rented in the fall really impressed me, moreso than the MY11 CTS I tooled around with briefly last spring.
DW, that ULC is so ugly it makes a Pontiac Aztec look good.
It looks like a toaster on wheels.
I cant wait to take this for a test drive! The last one I drove was a ’12 Sedan with the manual. The amount of grip and shear power for a respectable ride/comfort factor was astounding.
I’m going M5 hunting again with the friend who will own this and get me some Gerries!!!!!!!!!!!!