The Cadillac CT6’s looks may not be as “greatly daring” as the B&B had hoped, but the premium sedan might make up for that with twin-turbo V8 power.
According to Road & Track, brand president Johan de Nysschen turned up for a Q&A with the commentariat over on Jalopnik, where he gave this response to a question by the blog’s own Michael Ballaban:
CT6 is a car that really sets the standard in many respects with regard to advanced new body construction technology. It’s a Cadillac, so it stands to reason that it’s great to drive, very refined and sophisticated. The lightweight body construction allows us to push the envelope when it comes to powertrain in a way we know that the rest of the industry will follow. This includes a very wide mix of engines, starting with a 2-liter turbo, up to, eventually, a high-performance advanced V-8 turbo.
De Nysschen reaffirmed his statement when another commenter asked about the CT6’s ability to keep up with the likes of the BMW 7 Series and Mercedes S-Class, proclaiming the sedan’s “lightweight body structure” would provide the platform for “formidable performance” with a twin-turbo V6, let alone a twin-turbo V8.
Get me my wading boots and a shovel.
I’m curious about one of his quotes:
“CT6 is a car that really sets the standard in many respects with regard to advanced new body construction technology.”
Okay, so what does that mean? BMW has carbon construction – that’s not new and aluminum has been around a while. What new lightweight body construction technique is out there that isn’t carbon fiber or aluminum. A new technique for stamping high strength steel even thinner?
There is not a single comment that he has made about present or future Cadillac products versus the competition that I have some across that wasn’t, at best, disingenuous, and at worst, an outright lie.
One example is the body structure/material composition issue that you referenced.
I make it no secret that I view him as lacking any credibility, so YMMV.
DW,
Is there anything Caddy does right in your eyes, why always the hate?
Seth
Seth, what specifically did I state above that you take issue with?
Cadillac’s current products, with the exception of the Escalade and XTS (a rental/fleet intensive sedan) are lacklustre or far worse based on sales, and Johan is speaking in lofty platitudes about future product, right?
DW,
It just seems you have a blood feud with caddy, not sure if you ever said something positive about them, did you own one and it left a very bad taste in your mouth, did Melody stand you up at the alter :)
Seth
I am 100% at odds with Cadillac’s current strategy of trying to clone circa-2004 to 2010 BMW, and unfortunately for Cadillac employees suffering under that current model & the current regime, the market is firmly agreeing with my position.
You never abandon the core, essential attributes that identified your brand & badge for a hundred plus years, even as you evolve.
For Cadillac, those essential attributes are:
Powerful, torque rich motors relative to competition and other GM brands
Large occupant space fore and aft in all sedans
PLUSH RIDE QUALITY
Interior comfort everywhere
Dominant/Masculine exterior aesthetic
DW
Ok I get it I think , you want an old school boat of a caddy, you liked them when they all had real names and a customer base of age 70, if that is about right than I can see why you hate the new caddy, I assume you must have hated when caddy rolled out SUV,s not hating on you DW just trying to understand where your comments are coming from.
Seth
Seth, here’s a serious question for you:
What should a Cadillac be?
More specifically, which of my criteria do NOT mesh with what even younger people today expect of a Cadillac?
@seth
My guess is they awoke a sleeping giant in DW.
I suspect DW’s idea of Cadillac is firmly rooted in the Mad Men-era aesthetic. There’s nothing wrong with that and it seems Johan’s blindly groping his way towards that aesthetic while keeping the brand relevant in the face of the Audi/Benz/BMW trifecta, Alphanumeric Nomenclature Syndrome (ANS) notwithstanding.
In that light, the blinged-up Yukon Denali (Escalade) and the 90s-era FWD retread (XTS) seem like the only two products that represent that long-lost ideal and aren’t busy chasing ze Germans around. Concepts like the Sixteen and Elmiraj prove that the brand still has that Mad Men era magic.
At the introduction of the midsize GM pickups last year, Mark Reuss was asked about the aluminum Ford F-150 and he said that “we know how to join aluminum well.” After I heard him say that, I looked into it and GM has a recent patent in spot welding welding aluminum, that’s currently (no pun intended) being used to make the Corvette’s superstructure. My guess is that the CT6 may use that technology.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Sep/0924_welding.html
mcs,
First, I think de Nysschen full of ****, and I don’t trust anything he says.
Second, technology is more than materials. Are they introducing new adhesives? Other non-welding joining? Friction stir welding? Industrial “origami”? New deep sheet metal forming like on the MKC?
But, all that being said, see #1. It sounds like vaporware.
I’m prepared to suspend comments about FUTURE Cadillac products based on de Nysschen’s verbal potpourri, and judge those products based on their actual, material merit.
Johan talks a massive game, so let us see the goods.
Someone should tell Johan as of right now, he’s playing follow-the-leader.
“Eventually” does not mean “likely” especially in the age of CAFE regulations (that one is really for Cameron…so sorry)
Like DW implies, talk is cheap. Show us the money, or go home.
Looks like a CTS? Slightly longer? Cadillac-exclusive V8?
They have resurrected the STS.
Senior Road Test Editor Ed Hellwig writes, “After driving several preproduction versions of the STS, we think Cadillac may have been saving the best for last. Unlike the previous Seville STS that lacked the refinement, performance and aesthetic appeal necessary to compete against the best from Europe and Japan, the 2005 STS is a slick-looking, no-excuses package that gives up nothing to its competition.”
More from Edmunds, 2005: “With all-wheel drive as an option, a sophisticated suspension and quite likely the best Cadillac interior ever, the STS is an attractive proposition even if it does look an awful lot like its smaller brother, the CTS.”
“Step up to the 4.6-liter V8 and the STS really shows its mettle. With 320 hp and 315 lb-ft of torque, there’s more than enough power to make this car feel quick. Cadillac claims a 0-to-60-mph time of less than 6 seconds and it feels that fast behind the wheel.”
A twin turbo V8 sounds pretty badass no matter what badge is on the grille.
Remember the Cadillac XLR, which was a rebadged Corvette?
Sorry to be so “realistic,” but SSDD from Johan.
While being built upon the same chassis, the XLR had:
*A folding hardtop roof
*A Northstar V8 instead of the LS-3
*Completely different body and interior panels
That’s a bit more than a “rebadge”.
Okay, that even further cements the point of how incredibly un-doable it is to develop exclusive motors for niche luxury vehicles.
GM wouldn’t even do/allow it for the 70k to 80k Cadillac XLR back in the early 2000s, choosing to stick a DTS Northstar in there.
It wasn’t a DTS Northstar. It was a STS Northstar. Which had more torque and was longitudinally placed instead of the DTS’s transverse setup.
I’ve argued quite a few times that the Northstar was actually a perfect Cadillac engine. It was quieter and more refined than the pushrod V8s. Considering the mission of the XLR, I’d say it was perfect. That, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that the market for $75K luxury sportscars had already peaked by the time the XLR came out.
While I agree that a clean-sheet bespoke Cadillac engine isn’t a very good investment these days, I’m not sure I get your point re the XLR, since it came with a Cadillac-only engine.
My point is that the XLR was Cadillac attempt at the time for a Halo vehicle, and they stuffed a variant of a quite common, existing motor into it, rather than giving it an exclusive motor, which would have been so cost intensive as to be a non-starter, and that this will not change in the next 5 years as a matter of basic numbers/costs/business models, despite what Johan claims about future Cadillac exclusive motors.
The CT6 is being priced at 70k and up, according to Johan, so I doubt Cadillac will sell more than 12,000 of them per year under the best case scenario.
The LH2 Northstar engine only available in 3 Cadillacs. The other engine option the LC3 Northstar was available in only 2 cadillacs. I’m certain that other manufacturers have dropped their “common” V8’s into more of their cars.
Okay, I’ll bite. What on earth was wrong with the XLR?
If Mercedes can sell an SL550 what is wrong with Cadillac offering an XLR?
I don’t know if they met their sales goals or not but the XLR seems to be holding its value quite well in the used market.
I happen to have a soft spot for the XLR. But if I were to venture a guess, I’d say it was pricing and, perhaps, styling. The XLR was the most extreme example of the Art & Science design.
I quite like the XLR as well, but I take your point on the styling. I the the CTS coupe was the most extreme, though.
It seems to me that with the XLR and STS Cadillac was making cars that fit DW’s idea of what a Cadillac should be.
While I’ve been tempted by both it appears they didn’t sell well enough for Cadillac to continue them.
I have to agree. I’d love to own an XLR and I did own a V8 STS, which I adored.
I had the pleasure of driving an XLR-V once. The one with the supercharged Northstar. It was superb.
I wonder if its going to be exclusive to Cadi will it be a variant of the LT pushrod engines or a multicam/multivalve V8? Twin turbo is code for small displacement.
That’s my guess then a sub five liter DOHC 4V V8, another 4.6 or smaller perhaps?
He’s probably just full of s*** but I can’t imagine GM spending a billion dollars to develop a new V8 which would never see use in anything outside of Cadillac (remember prole brands can’t have nice motors per unelected overlords). Even GM isn’t that stupid to spend money on a brand new drivetrain for a low volume model/brand.
You just caught a lying Nysschen by the tail.
GM is not going to allow Johan to develop niche-level, Cadillac specific/exclusive motors, given the massive amortization costs involved, for use in Cadillac vehicles that may sell on the order of 500 to even 1200 or 2000 per month.
Even Daimler, BMW nor VAG (Audi) would not allow this (MB sends existing platforms out to AMG for skunkworks fiddling, BMW has the M division, and VAG throws some FI onto existing motors for Audi S variations).
VAG allows this type of thing (Phaeton) and has the money to do it, but they are the only automaker I could see allowing something like this to happen.
In GM’s case I could see an LS variant being produced, especially if the plan is to offer turbo fail on the Corvette in the near future.
Does JdN run things by RenCen before he talks? Are the really going to greenlight a DOHC V8 and either use it as a Cadillac only engine or replace the LS/LT with this new engine? Again, GM is giving me a headache.
I admit that I’m a Ford guy, but I have nothing but respect for GMs current V8s. Heck, I bet during the financial meltdown Mullaly, Fields, Farley, and Bill Ford Jr were sitting on top of the glass house, with a telescope pointed at the RenCen, trying to figure out how they could end up with the GM Powertrain division.
Even the the lower spec V8 & upper spec W12 in the Phaeton were shared across platforms for VAG (4.2 liter V8 with Audi A8; D1 W12 6.0 liter with Bentley Continental & Bentley GT).
And Ferdy is a spendthrift to such a degree that other German industry captains think of him as eccentric to the point of irrational.
“Does JdN run things by RenCen before he talks?”
Based on his rants thus far and clear exaggerations about future Cadillac exclusive powerplants, I’d bet not.
Dude’s a loose cannon.
I want Mark Reuss to fight JdN.
@bball
I’d pay to see a deathmatch between them, and I’d bet on ‘Murica FTW.
Jim Farley and Mark Fields would want a piece too. I feel like Fields’ mullet makes him want to fight everyone and Farley wants to, “beat GM with a bat.”
I bet Bob Lutz wants to fight Johan. My money is on Lutz, despite the age discrepancy.
Bob Lutz would run Johan down with that JGC he smashed throgh the front of Cobo twenty some years ago. Maximum Bob doesn’t fight fair.
How is Audi “throw[ing] some FI onto existing motors” any different than what was proposed here?
GM already has a DOHC V8 ready to go that was going to be produced at the Tonawanda plant, starting in 2009, but in early ’08 they announced that they were killing the program. As I understand it, most of the development work already had been done. Now whether or not making a Cadillac specific engine is a good business idea (as good as the LS and LT families are, I do think that Cadillac needs an engine unique to the brand in any flagship they’d make) it’s not going to cost them a billion dollars to put an already designed motor into production. At the time the project to make Tonawanda ready to make that engine was scheduled to cost $300 million.
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/gm-cancels-v8-program-luxury-cars
Though I think that luxury brands should offer engine with lots of cylinders, 90% of cars with luxury nameplates sold in North America have V6 engines.
Thanks for the info, Ronnie. Would a motor which at this point is close to ten years old be a viable solution though (with emissions zealots and whatnot)?
And Ford had a 4.4L turbo diesel ready for the F150 in 2009. That doesn’t make it a good idea for them to put that engine in the F150 in 2015.
Edit: WHO AM I KIDDING?!? I WANT A DIESEL F150!
I don’t know if an engine designed to go into production just 5 years ago would be obsolete today, but in any case they wouldn’t have to start the engine design from scratch. At the time the engine was described as “advanced” so it would probably be fairly up to date today. Offhand, most of the improvements in engines have had to do with head design, like direct injection, and valve operation like variable valve timing and lift, which I’m pretty sure don’t have much to do with the basic architecture.
Cool, thx Ronnie.
I’d do the opposite of exclusive. I’d take C7 engines with Corvette logos intact and drop it in. Exterior, I’d put some small Corvette wing logos to let everyone know what was inside.
Something of a tangent, but does anyone else like the display engines GM brings to auto shows? I feel like I’m part of the 1% of attendees who actually look at them. Seeing an L83 on display really emphasized the relative compactness of pushrod engines.
The real world cost-benefit might not add up, but from an enthusiast’s perspective it’d be neat to see GM tune a small V8 for a Cadillac-friendly combo of good NVH/economy/usable power in their non-V models.
Yes, but note the use of the qualifier – “eventually”. Will that day ever come?
“This includes a very wide mix of engines, starting with a *2-liter turbo*, up to, eventually, a high-performance advanced V-8 turbo.”
This Kraut just doesn’t learn does he?
Why are some ethnic slurs acceptable? I doubt that you’d use the contemporaneous WWII era term for Japanese.
Is it a slur when you can find Kraut juice on your supermarket juice aisle?
White on white crime
Careful now. That could trigger feelings of being microaggressed because of the phrase “white on rice” and the association of rice with Asian cuisine.
BTW, I was just poking fun at something silly but when the Urban Dictionary has to explain that “white on rice” “does not carry any racist connotations” we’re way beyond the looking glass, far from Kansas.
Germans just aren’t that sensitive
I would take a guess and say it would be for export markets. The Chinese market Cadillac SLS (US market STS) was available with a 2.0 4 cylinder. Both Audi and BMW will be offering or are offering 4 cylinders in China. And its been reported somewhere that it will a new engine.
You bring up a good point, but I could see it being offered here as well (given CTS carries it).
Doesn’t the CTS exist in a segment where all the largest players (minus one) offer inline 4s.
You all do realize he was born and raised in South Africa right?
He doesn’t look the least bit African ;-)
It already has too many doors, having the base engine be a 4 cylinder is just gonna kill it completely for me.
Where’s my 2 door V8 Cadillac? I gotta buy a CTS-V for that?
“It’s a Cadillac, so it stands to reason that it’s great to drive, very refined and sophisticated.”
OH REALLY? I think you’ve got a long history of products which are not refined, sophisticated, or nice to drive. Some of them you still make right now.
We can start with the 8-6-4 debacle and work our way forwards.
If GM would offer a new vehicle like my 1998 Aurora, that would be something indeed. My Aurora has had ZERO problems in 104,000 miles and looks better every day, unlike the J*P CR*P running around that looks like residual waste reclamation.
I am looking at a 2001 Aurora with the 3.5, just to try a V6 (Shortstar) for awhile!
The problem with having twelve cars is that magic number 13!