If you ask any automotive enthusiast about Acura, you’re likely to get approximately the same response. “Oh, ACURA?” they’ll say, with a look of disgust, as if they were just informed their flight is experiencing mechanical issues and will be stopping in Des Moines. “Acura used to be so cool. And now…”
And then they dazzle you with all the ways that Acura used to be cool. The Integra. The RSX. The NSX. The Vigor. The Legend Coupe with that cool 6-speed manual transmission and those oversized alloy wheels. Then they tell you about how Acura was so cool that you couldn’t leave an Integra Type-R outside the grocery store for five minutes without some car theft ring stealing it and dumping the stripped shell in a ditch in a part of town where train tracks outnumber living trees.
But now?
Acura is BORING, car enthusiasts say. They’ve lost their direction, their purpose, their progress. Acura is the automotive equivalent to that time Robert Downey, Jr. told his agent that yes, it does seem like a good idea to do that Shaggy Dog movie where I play an evil geneticist who kidnaps a sacred, shape-shifting dog from a Tibetan monastery.
And car enthusiasts may have a point, because Acura is hardly as exciting as it once was Think about it: a brand formerly consumed by manual transmissions and sharp handling has now given way to the torque converter, the ventilated seat, and a dual infotainment setup with more total screen inches than my parents’ living room. So where the hell did they go wrong?
Or… did they?
I say this because I recently discovered that Acura’s two SUVs – inexplicably named the RDX and MDX – are two of today’s best-selling luxury crossovers. And this is no easy feat: in today’s world, everybody sells a luxury SUV. BMW has five of them. So does Mercedes. Lexus is going to create twenty-six luxury SUVs, one for every letter of the alphabet (followed by the letter “X”), each uglier than the last, until finally they come out with the ZX 350, which looks like a desktop fax machine on wheels.
And leading the charge through all this is… Acura? The brand that forgot enthusiasts? The brand that gave up on the fun car?
It isn’t just SUVs where Acura seems to be making a killing. Take, for example, the Acura TL, which is a midsize sedan known for its transmission problems (1999-2003), good looks (2004-2008), and scary-looking beak nose (2009-2013). Well, guess what? The TL is also insanely popular. Seriously: you cannot drive through an HOA-controlled condo complex in the Los Angeles suburbs without seeing at least a dozen TLs, all in various nondescript colors that Acura calls something like Pearl Stormcloud Metallic.
Admittedly, the TL is now dead; replaced instead by a new model called the TLX. But guess what? It has an expanded engine lineup, a wider variety of features, lower pricing, and a normal front end that doesn’t make it look like an automotive killing machine. I’m guessing this won’t lead to fewer sales.
Now, I’m not to say Acura is without faults. We all know about the bizarre ZDX, which cost like fifty grand and had a backseat designed for a headless turtle. And then there’s the ILX, which is little more than a cynical Honda Civic clone with an unfortunate markup. And of course, there’s also the RLX, which is still on sale in the same way that John Glenn is still alive: you have to check the Wikipedia page every few months just to make sure.
But what I’ve noticed is that Acura actually does pretty damn well for being a company that “turned its back” on automotive enthusiasts, and “lost its direction.” So well, in fact, that you have to wonder if “losing its direction” happened precisely on purpose. In fact, you kind of have to wonder if Acura’s direction isn’t really lost at all.
So what do you think? Am I wrong? Is Acura a directionless, formless blob of a luxury car company? Or, by ignoring automotive enthusiasts, have they found a better direction?
The real answer is that they -never- paid attention to enthusiasts. Their first successes with the Legend were a result of guesswork and a tie-in with Rover, who dictated much of how the Legend platform turned out in 1986. They didn’t have large car or luxury experience, and they took a conservative approach when offering the larger car (with compromised suspension design because of Rover as well).
Then they ignored luxury standards and consumer wants by never offering a V8. They never offered RWD. They didn’t offer AWD. Then they ignored enthusiasts some more by sending over some JDM FWD Hondas with different trim, letting the JDM market determine what we got here.
Then they lost the looks when we got the bloated 3.5RL, and a Vigor which was too expensive and not particularly good at anything.
Lexus and Infiniti gave customers more of what they wanted starting in 1990 (with some exceptions of course), and actually listened to the market. Think of the original LS. The RX. The QX4. The G35.
Acura had none of those things. Oh wait, they did offer that Trooper badged as an SLX for a couple years.
In conclusion, Acura was a conservative and generally bland cynical brand exercise that never had much of a direction. They have their crossovers now, which are doing well with moms and families. Still doing the same thing they did in the beginning. Toss it up, see if it goes alright. If it does go alright, make changes and see if something else will work.
I see someone enjoyed the Rover/Honda link the other day.
Yaaaas.
Lexus has not done much better in the exterior styling department than Acura. Whereas Acuras look about a decade behind the competition, Lexus’ look like a very bad rendition of the future.
Excuse me, was NSX FWD too? Or you’re just ignoring facts that are inconvenient for the narrative?
The NSX was not an Acura product in the way that every other is. The JDM FWD Hondas fancied up and sold here as Acura are a bit different than a supercar which did not get fancied up, but only a label change.
It’s also low volume, and niche. Doesn’t count.
It kinda sorta used a FWD powertrain didnt it…just hooked to the rear wheels instead. But yes, to say the company that sold the original NSX never catered to enthusiasts is kind of silly.
The NSX was front wheel drive in reverse. You ever look under the hood of an NSX? It’s not north south back there.
You are quite right.
The cool cars listed in the article were, beside of legend, been a derivative car from mainstream accord/civic which been supplied to Verno dealership channel in Japan. The only purpose of those cars was to feed the dealers something to sell when not given accord and civic, to what Honda defined “young and sporty” consumers.
When Honda introduced Odyssey and stepwgn minivan brothers, trend moved to people carriers. Very small demand left to sporty speciality, eventually Verno’s existence came to question and in 2008, Honda decided to discontinue 3 dealer channel (Primo / Verno / Crio) strategy, that all dealers to sell same lineup.
Currently Honda dealers are very happy to have minivans, Kcars and Fit to run the business. No speciality is asked to supply.
This means Acura in North America has to prepare something by themselves from part bins of obsessed US accord and civic platforms.
” Is Acura a directionless, formless blob”
No more then their competition. I honestly have to check myself when talking about Lexus/Acura/Infiniti because I get them mixed-up.
That RDX pictured above looks like it would have been a perfect fit in about 2006. Seriously, that thing looks old. Lexus, on the other hand, has some weird, alien, sci-fi futuristic thing going on. Infiniti has a curvy, organic thing going on. Really, all three seem to be far behind their German and American competition.
But only because the “look” today is a sweeping rear roof line and disappearing D and rear window view.
So, guess Acura decided to keep the good stuff and it seems the consumers likes their decision.
Ditto for the Subaru…all of them allow for real drivability.
So count me in on being a BIG big fan.
Lexus and Infiniti currently offer coupes (I mean two-door cars with at least nominal rear seats, not four-door “coupes”). I’ve never owned an Acura but do miss seeing Acura coupes around. Even the second-generation Legend coupe had rear side windows that could be lowered.
I’ve never really gotten Acura, they have always just been Hondas with bells on to me. But there also was no Acura dealer in my state during their “glory years”, and those years were back when Japanese cars dissolved like a snow cone in August up here in the land of salt. Then they got ugly.
They seem to have found their niche with near lux mommy trux, so more power to them.
In some way, I personally think “Hondas with bells” works. I was recently in the market for a midsize, and the Accord looked pretty good except for a few quirks in the product offerings (transmissions, leather, sunroof, stereo combinations just don’t work out the way I want).
The TLX had the right blend of bells & whistles, without giving up on life and spec’ing a CVT, all while significantly undercutting the Germans and Lexus/Infiniti. That car was a serious contender on my list.
That said, I realize I’m probably part of a small customer segment given the decision factors I was weighing. My final list also included the GMC Canyon, Chevy SS, BMW 550i & 740i, Audi S3 and Mercedes E-class… so, probably not typical.
“Hondas with bells” are nearly the perfect car for many people. Hondas are great economy cars, but if the EXL versions were just a little nicer they’d be perfect. Ergo Acura.
Bread and water will keep you going for a long while too, doesn’t mean its the perfect meal for everyone.
Frankly, they weren’t all that special in those glory years. I remember going along with a family friend who was buying a new Integra in ~1990. It was clearly an incredibly well-built car — the “thunk” the doors made reminded me of a friend’s dad’s Mercedes — but it also had an astonishingly spartan feel to the interior. Coarse cloth and dour styling. Having been impressed with what I’d seen of Lexus, I really couldn’t get the appeal.
The cold, hard truth of sales numbers and customer reliability ratings are what’s important in this day and age.
Not whether Honda/Acura have lost their collective way.
Acura vs. Mazda would seem to prove the point.
This.
well…except Acura has a BIG network/owner behind it. Mazda only has itself and a sick dealer network.
When I bought my Mazda6 in 2005, it was pretty clear that the TSX was the most cross-shopped car among enthusiasts.
Acura succeeds for the following two reasons:
1.Americans like luxury SUVs
2.Acura’s SUVs are far cheaper than virtually every other option
A nicely-optioned MDX costs less than $50k; that’s Highlander money. Ask your local Benz dealer what GL you can get for that, and they’ll direct you to the used lot.
You can get a nice GLK for that
Well, if you can avoid being blinded by glare from the dash and console…
Plus the GLK is a size smaller than the MDX, ain’t it?
And there you have it. A Tech MDX had more gadgets, more HP and a bigger third seat than the X5. The optioned up German was 10k more. Add the V8 for HP and 20K…thats some expensive horses. At some point you also realize this does the school run and shopping, so do you need 300 hp ? Yes, yes you do.
This is how Infiniti prices the Q-loaded car for price of base BMW, and what Caddy should have done. While a bluetooth chip is $50 on amazon, somehow BMW gets multiple hundreds for the miracle of streaming music.
near lux mommy trux….love it !
Acura made a big deal about how the second generation MDX was tuned in germany. They then forgot about this and aimed it at the RX…. I have come to conclude that it was the result of honda engineers getting a pilot to feel like an X5. This may be the most personality of any Acura save the hallowed NSX, which was a honda everywhere else.
Acura never meant much to me. The original Integra that supposedly had 140hp couldn’t pull the skin off a banana, was never so surprised as when I got one to drive, being an Audi owner. The Vigor was just plain unacceptable compared to an Audi 5000 Turbo, being 164 hp in someone’s imagination, and kind of ponderous. No greyhound there. The first Legend also paled in comparison to an Audi 50 The next Acura I drove was all three versions of the new TLX. After 20 years, nothing had changed. The promise doesn’t match the dull reality. As for CUVs, I never bother.
The curmudgeon’s view of Acura, I guess. Only decent to someone who’s never driven better and then assigns top grades without daring to try something a bit more flavorful.
You realize that total cost of ownership on an Acura and an Audi with the same sticker price isn’t even remotely the same, right?
You realize you totally missed the point of his post, right?
You really didn’t understand my comment, did you energetik?
The point appears to be that he prefers unreliable but technically fascinating vehicles to reliable but boring vehicles.
The Audi 5000 Turbo and Audi 50 were the cars you bought when you wanted to make sure that your mechanic’s 401(k) was fully funded.
Many people have driven “better” and now know better. That’s why lots of people lease new German luxury cars, and let someone else deal with them out of warranty.
Ok Geeber, do me a favor and take a 2012 TL SH-AWD out for a ride and tell me that car is boring. Regardless if you like the styling or not, it is an amazing vehicle. Try out a new TLX. Another fantastic vehicle – hardly boring at all! It is really tiring hearing people make claims about things they have no knowledge of.
I’d say the 2nd gen Legends looked/look better than any Audi designed, ever (maybe the R8??). Performance of the 3.2L V6/stick cars was also at the top of the mid-lux heap at the time. An Integra didn’t really compete at all with any Audi, apples to oranges IMO.
Aside from performance and design, I’d say the build quality and reliability of Acuras as a whole is far ahead of Audi’s “German Engineering,” even with Acura’s 5spd automatic fiasco in mind. Just ask any 1st gen A6/A8 owner how their torque converter is doing. I never understood that ‘privilege’ of having cars fall apart at 80k miles.
I think they know their buyer (the actual buyer who will buy their vehicles instead of lament about the good old days of the Integra which they didn’t buy either). I have owned an 02 Acura RL which my wife drove for many years. She wanted a sedan with heated leather seats that told her the exterior temperature. That is it. She could care less how it cornered or it’s 0-60 performance. Reliability was important and that is what made her happy. Maybe that is their core buyer, people who like heated leather seats and the car displays the exterior temperature?!
Most cars are, luxury or not, driven by people who are nor Performance Oriented, and will never (intentionally) take a corner so fast that cornering matters in the first place.
When people forget that, they make mistakes when trying to understand the car market.
(“How can anyone buy a Corolla? It doesn’t perform like an M3?!?!”
Also, man… I’m *never* going to buy a car that lacks heated seats again, if I can help it.)
Amen to that! Living in Chicago it is a must. I am surprised more manufacturers don’t offer heated seats with cloth. Some people dislike the leather for how cold and hot it gets in the extreme temps.
Fart on a cloth seat 100 times then turn on the heat. No thanks.
Those must be some runny farts. Ewww!
I was initially trepid about clost seats in my Altima, but I totally love them now. -7 windchill this morning in VA and the seats didn’t bother me at all. Shift knob was another story though. :P
When I get my next 3.5SE I hope I can get one with cloth also.
“Fart on a cloth seat 100 times then turn on the heat. No thanks.”
Thank you, I’m not as weird as I thought to have had the same mental visual/smellsual?
I feel like Acura crossovers do so well because people “settle” on them, mostly for financial reasons. I know a few people with MDXs (young parents), and you can bet all of them started with their eyes on Q7 and X5. Then they saw the price tags. Acura offers enough bells and whistles at a lower price to be a decent second choice. Plus, the reputation for reliability helps ease the pain that they’ve settled for “near luxury.” When I ask how they like their MDX, response is usually something like “It’s nice. Dat X5 tho!!!”
Acura plays into the “second-best but still decent” theme with their whole “Smart Luxury” branding. So they’re selling cars, but they seem to have become the perennial second choice in all categories. If they’re fine with that, good for them, but a winning brand likes to be the FIRST choice.
The last Acura that people actually DESIRED – as in, first choice – was the ’04-’08 TL. Lots of young guys my age bought them and LOVED them. Then the ’09 came out and WTF. Nobody I know with that generation TL bought another Acura. Infiniti, Audi, even Cadillac, but they’ve left the brand and aren’t looking back.
Obviously this is coming from your perspective. I have a close friend that had a GL450 for several years and when its air suspension started to leak and they got the $8k cost estimate, they traded the vehicle in for a brand new MDX in the hope that it would be more reliable and not cost a small fortune when it needed repairs. They don’t see it as being a lesser vehicle, just a safer choice.
… and to think I’d have just had someone put in normal springs (ala a 2.7TT Allroad fix), assuming that’s possible, as it should be.
Speaking of which, is a factory air suspension ever NOT a disaster?
I agree. I think people tend to include brand perception as part of the overall value of the vehicle. I see nothing “near-luxury” about Acura’s MDX when compared to Mercedes-Benz. MB just has more higher-end offerings and better brand equity.
Not to pick on anybody here, but “People will pay X dollars for what a car is. They’ll pay X (times 10) for how a car makes them look to others.”
“I have a close friend that had a GL450 for several years and when its air suspension started to leak and they got the $8k cost estimate, they traded the vehicle in for a brand new MDX in the hope that it would be more reliable”
Everyone “knows” someone that has this experience. I know a guy too that had a $6k bill on his RLX.
The RLX was released in March 2013 for the 2014 model year.
The RLX comes with a four-year, 50,000-mile vehicle warranty, and a six-year, 70,000-mile powertrain warranty.
To get the car beyond the warranty, your friend must have done a lot of driving over the last two years to have a $6,000 repair bill on his RLX.
We were getting ready to start our family back in 2007 and as a result, I was looking to replace my 05 Mazda6 SportWagon. Having never owned a Honda product, I went to test drive the MDX and the salesman insisted on running my credit before the test drive. Not exactly the “luxury” experience that I was seeking. The Acura had gobs of torque steer and way too many buttons on the dash.
Our twins eventually arrived in 2010 and they are driven around in a V8 XC90 Sport. The Volvo has been solid over the past 8 years and we’ll probably push it for another 2 years before trading it for the new model.
They have 2 luxury CUV’s which are doing well for the time being, and a near-luxury sedan which has been mediocre in sales despite being both brand new and the beneficiary of an intense marketing campaign. Everything else they sell is statistical noise. If that is the minimum standard by which success is judged, then Cadillac (never mind Buick) must be doing absolutely stellar.
I would be willing to bet you the Acura brand is a net money-loser for Honda. Or is barely breaking even.
I doubt that Acura loses money, given that Acuras are based on Honda platforms. Acura, while hardly enjoying stellar success with passenger cars as of late, certainly hasn’t had any fiascos on the order of the Cadillac ATS and CTS. There are two cars that are probably losing money for their manufacturer.
It’s a fair point.
Yet I don’t think the enthusiast is thinking about the SUVs when thinking about Acura. They’re thinking about the cars. I feel that Honda fans will give Acura credit for the ’04-’08 TL, but today’s RL and TL relative to what’s come before from Acura and what’s available from the competition today seems…rote. I remember my buddy’s Integra GS-R being innovative, fresh, passionate.
I thought they would have had a rear driven sedan by now. Can you imagine a TLX sized sedan with RWD, a 6-spd and a VTEC motor?
Doesn’t matter. Acura is crying all the way to the bank in an MDX.
They never attempted to really “compete” with the other two luxury Japanese brands either.
You check the Acura products against the competition (historically), and for a little less money (not that much less) you got FWD instead of RWD, less power, less room, and fewer possible amenities. And critically, much less prestige.
Or in some cases, for MORE money.
The 1995 SC300 cost $41,700 new.
The 1995 Legend LS Coupe cost $43,850.
@CoreyDL: I don’t have the pricing guides from the mid-90’s, but go to truedelta and punch in current Acuras versus the competition. Adjusted for feature content, the base TLX is $9,260 cheaper than a 320i; the V6 AWD version is $6,155 cheaper than an AWD 335i. The MDX AWD with technology package is $14,815 cheaper than an X5 xDrive35i. Adjusted for feature content and compared to the base IS, the TLX is $6,985 cheaper; the V6 AWD is $4,680 cheaper than the IS 350 AWD. The RX comes closest to Acura in pricing, but even there it’s $1,295 more expensive than the comparable MDX.
Yes, my parents bought an early 90’s Legend that was $41,500 back then. Fwd, modest V6 power, basically like a nice Accord 4 cylinder with leather today. That would be about $70,000 today! Cars sure have more bang for the buck these days.
The last TL SH had over 300 hp, a traditional stick, and an AWD train that reviewers said handled just as good or better than RWD competitors.
As far as I recall, no luxury competitor offered a traditional stick in their midsize.
I find all your viewpoints interesting. Around here in the GTHA part of Southern Ontario. I’ve always been under the impression that it’s a brand that many people strive for. I can think of lots of young men who bought Acura Civivs and were proud.
Only Canada got the EL, that’s a bit of a special case!
To be fair, that just compensates for our market largely having to skew cheaper. The TSX and TL still seem common enough (albeit not quite 3-Series/C-Class common), and command healthy resale values, along with the CSX (Acura’s Civic between the EL and ILX).
I thought the CSX is what the EL became after it got a re-do.
Yes, that. I should probably hire an editor for my daily life.
LOL
No one will ever make any money building cars for enthusiasts, but rather they’d make money despite building cars for us.
Bland sells. It’s as simple as that.
They came very close to losing “it”.
Acura of 2008-2012 followed Honda’s mini-depression. Consider the parallels between them:
Honda debuted the Accord Crosstour. Kids would scream to their parents, “Look, there’s actually a real Bulbasaur!”
Acura debuted the 2009 TL, which almost everyone dismissed as a Transformer reject
Acura put the boldest-looking (i.e. worst) part of the TL, the beak, onto all models
Honda debuted the 2012 Civic, which was basically a de-contented 2006 Civic, all the way down to the Si variant which received a transplant K24 engine
Acura debuted the ILX, a premium sporty compact. Unfortunately, it only achieved “compact”
Acura had the well-aged MDX to carry it, but Honda’s entire lineup was getting stale by 2012. The Civic and Accord were heavily modernised and re-contented. The 2013 replacement RDX and MDX were both strong. The the new brand signature, the evil row of LED headlights, is cool. The beak grille went away.
Note how the MDX was released at the right time (2007) to carry a full model cycle through Honda/Acura’s depression. Without that, Acura would really have lost nearly all of its sales by 2012.
Now that the TLX and ILX are finally good cars, and the RDX gets updated with the evil headlamps, Acura’s revival is complete. It’s not an enthusiast-driven brand, but as some argue, perhaps it really never was.
Personal opinion: The new MDX has mega street presence. What a classy, classy car, especially in dark colours.
Interesting theory, although I’m not sure the decontenting/recontenting of the Civic was as severe as it’s made out to be (bias: I own a 2012 LX sedan). Compared to a friends’ 2008, the 2012 rides a lot better at the expense of added body lean, gets slightly better mileage, feels roomier and has better seats, and has a snazzier ‘infotainment’ setup. Steel wheels decreased to 16 inches from 15, and I guess the plastics/door cards are deemed worse although they feel atleast as good to me. They made the dash pad soft for 2013 and added a bit of insulation, added some plastichrome to the front grille, and redid the taillights (which I prefer to mine a lot). I think suspension got stiffened back up towards the handling side of things.
Completely agree. The 2012 wasn’t a bad car, but people’s expectations were set high due to the revolutionary 2006 model. IMO the demise of the Civic in the JDM also affected its overall mission in the rest of the world (it had to become bigger and blander to appeal to North America).
I nearly bought a year-end 2012 Si 4 door (dealer: “You sure you want to wait for the 2013? We could get you into this 2012 for a good deal!”).
Not as fun as the old Si, but I fully understand Honda’s intention of maturing the Si to appeal to more people.
This segment has really improved by leaps and bounds. Now the Corolla’s interior is more interesting than the Civic’s, although Toyota still can’t get their exterior styling right.
I liked my 2010 Si sedan, but didn’t love it until the month before I traded it in.
For a Crosstour.
/dons flamesuit
Are you sure the love didn’t actually begin after you gave it up? That’s how the sad stories go.
I opinionate, but I never deride other people’s choice of car. Still have the Crosstour?
No, the love was there and then I traded it in. Civic Si and a Mustang are the only cars I would own again without hesitation.
The lease was up on my Crosstour last year. I paid it off early and bought… A DART.
Honestly, the Crosstour’s a brilliant car, but it’s wrong. It never should have been sold as an Outback-fighter, it should have been sold with the Accord front-end, sitting at Accord ride-height, and called an Accord Sportback. Everyone (the media and the Internet) would have loved it and Honda would be considered “forward thinking”. It’s a really good car, as quiet as a church at 85mph, and incredibly comfortable.
Strangely, my Dart is the first car I’ve had since my Mustang that I loved since I got it.
But a 2016 ILX… that… that could change a lot of things.
A Crosstour and then a Dart, that makes two cars that J-commenters swear nobody buys. But I won’t lie; my choices of car are also all over the place.
I suspect if Honda made a real Accord Sportback based on the North American Accord, it would have been even roomier than the Crosstour.
You’ve made some interesting choices.
Life should be interesting.
I know I am biased (see my username :), but Acura has suffered from a lot of group think mentality on enthusiast blogs for several years. The 04-08 TSX, TL and RL were such slam dunks that the 09-14 generation was a total letdown. I get that and I think Acura also gets that. They have to make up for lost momentum, and they are starting to scrape themselves back up (see the drastic ILX refresh). I’m not sure the enthusiasts will ever give Acura a second chance (for better or worse), but consumers seem to be starting to get back on board. I also feel that the Acura brand has much more cachet than bloggers give it with the general public. It is still seen as a “nice car” (whatever that means).
I’m an Acura driver. I have that famous ’08 TL. It’s a great car. Bought it four years ago, CPO with 30k miles on it for $19,995. That same money could have bought me a used Maxima, a new stripper Accord, or a well-ish-equipped Corolla. These days, a new TLX goes for around $32k. A comparably-equipped 320i costs $9,260 more. And in the last four years, I’ve spent less than $1,000 on service and maintenance, all at Acura dealerships.
I like cars, but there are other things I want to spend $9,260 on. Is it really that complicated?
Good deal, I spend at least that much on maintenance for all of mine in a year (inc all wearables which I don’t know if you’re counting).
Exactly. I can either afford a new BMW 320i or a CPO Acura plus a Miata! You do the math!
If you are going to use straight cost as justification to buy a car then you chose correctly buy going for the cheaper option. Plenty of people (myself included) expect more and are willing to pay for it. Doesn’t mean it is the wrong choice.
To be fair, you saved $21,265 by getting the used TL over the 320i. And that’s more than I paid for all but one car I have ever purchased.
I place that gen TL on a similar plane as the E39 5 series. One of the all time best mass market designs ever.
Just because the Hondaphiles buy whatever they put out doesn’t make it attractive or fun to drive. Some people like relatively bland but reliable appliances, even in the luxury class. Acuras aren’t bad, they’re just not great anymore. The most popular shows on TV are rarely the best, either.
To be fair, Hondaphiles at best buy used S2000s, and at worst don’t buy real cars at all. I wouldn’t confuse fanboys with any significant Honda sales numbers.
Normal people who just want simple, reliable cars buy whatever Honda puts out. Or Toyota, depending on what they hear from their relatives and friends.
The Civic Si is the modern-day equivalent of the dearly missed Acura Integra.
Lexus has often been accused of being bland, doesn’t seem to hurt their sales.
ps 2014 Acura TSX Sportwagon owner here with no complaints.
If it was styled like a Volvo V60 they would sell a lot more of them.
The TSX wagon is/was a great car. All it needed was AWD (never on the TSX) and the V6 (that they already had in the TSX sedan) and it would have been a homerun.
You have to remember the times. No Infiniti, no Lexus, and Audis were just weird Volkswagens. Honda was a premium brand itself then, and Acura was the icing on the cake. Honda invented the Japanese premium channel in the US and had no competition there for almost four years. I bought into Acura in the 1980s, first with an Integra in 1987 and a Legend in 1989. I had had a couple of Rabbits and a 2002tii and I was set to buy a Scirocco 16v when Acura debuted–not only was the Integra cheaper, but it was much better to drive. The Scirocco felt like a truck in comparison. The dealer experience was worlds better than my codependent abusive relationship with the VW dealership; the service loaner was always a Legend and when the time came that’s what I got. Was never disappointed with either car.
Gotta agree here. The reason the Integra was so great – it had NO competition at the time!
The real problem is Acura has fallen into a gap in the market. They are kind of a luxury car but based on a trusted FWD vehicle (Honda). They never went RWD like Infiniti or Lexus. They never went AWD like Audi. They are stuck in the middle. They never moved in any direction, and as they sat still everyone else just kind of popped up around them. They got into the SUV/CUV game and that worked out very well for them. Thus they had no reason to become the performance version of Honda. As my mother would say (referencing my grades in high school) they are just coasting by. They are not really trying because they don’t have to… the market has come to them instead of them chasing their (once) core market. Sure they are not super successful, but compared to Volvo they ain’t doing so bad either.
HMC could use more margin, and Acura is largely a lost opportunity to create that margin.
It’s nice that they can sell crossovers to Americans, but the failure to turn it into a global brand with some prestige higher-price vehicles is an oversight.
Acura as a concept *should* make sense, even if the execution doesn’t. If you want a smart capable sedan, it would be the 3-series, and if you were smart about it you wouldn’t want to pay for the BMW mark-up or for the 300bhp that you would never need. This is why sensible people (teachers, architects) used to drive Volvos and Saabs and is where Acura should be hitting it out of the park.
Smart-luxury is a touch brand space, mostly because people in general get a little dumber with more money. If you only have a little bit of money, you have to be smart about all of it; if you have a lot, then you can spend some of it in dumb ways.Acura isn’t going to win it by going for the same as the tier-A luxury. If anything they need to bypass the internet zeitgeist and find a way to connect directly to the people would benefit from their cars.
“And then there’s the ILX, which is little more than a cynical Honda Civic clone with an unfortunate markup”
And YET… it’s a hell of a proposition, in a quantitative sense. Acura fixed all the things we complained about. Now the ILX is a premium Japanese FWD compact with stellar reliability and memory seats. Now the ILX is a perfectly respectable purchase as long as you aren’t a Jalopnik commenter (“autotragic”, “wrong wheel drive”, etc).
They also offer the ILX in Civic SI spec (unless they dropped it and I haven’t noticed), which is possibly the stealthiest fun car you can possibly buy today.
The ILX is definitely a car I would look at since it’s essentially a Civic Si with a slushbox, because life sometimes requires things like an automatic transmission.
I agree with you about the “Jalops”. I still don’t understand how the commenting system works over there and how a comment gets approved; it seems like some sort of popularity contest in a way. Having said that, I guess liking Honda/Acura product, especially one that is only offered in an automatic transmission is considered heresy to them.
The Civic SI cant be had with leather, heated, or power seats, HID lights, keyless go, dual-zone auto climate control, active sound cancellation, an auto-dim mirror, and Acura’s one-year-longer warranty.
Right on with the J commenters. Even some pending comments just get deleted after a while. So without a critical mass your comment may be invisible forever.
I would agree – the updated ILX looks like a solid product and is much like the original TSX. I really don’t know what is motivating all the hate.
Doug,
Another great piece that prompts the reader to examine their preconceptions – Good On’yah
Which manufacturer will be the next subject of your automotive market analysis?
No, Acura has not fooled us all. They are a car company that sticks to a simple formula, just like Honda. They aren’t looking at enthusiasts. They are looking at soccer moms and basic transportation.
I persoanlly think Acura is a company in desperate need of a mission statement. They seem like they are all over the place. I find them boring and numb. But here’s the bottom line, I’m an enthusiast and Honda/Acura isn’t building cars for me.
Your statements would seem contradictory. They stick to a simple formula, and yet are all over the place?
Sticking to a simple formula leads to the same result every time. That is the opposite of all over the place.
It’s me. No, really.
Over the past few years, I’ve seen that every brand that has dropped every car configuration I would consider buying, has seen a marked increase in sales.
If fact, once Honda gets rid of the coupe and the manual transmission in the Accord, it will finally beat the Camry hands down.
Mazda can only save itself by dropping the Miata, going automatic-only, and softening up the suspension on all its cars. It will turn its fortunes around in a year.
My answer to the QOTD: No, Acura hasn’t fooled us.
Their product planning and exterior design departments failed them miserably for most of the past 10-15 years. The 2nd generation MDX (2007-2013) was the sole exception.
It seems that they are FINALLY figuring out the product planning part, with smart updates to both the ILX and the RDX that address the shortcomings without breaking the bank.
The RLX is the most seriously WTF!?!?! car I’ve personally seen in the past 20 years. Not even close to competitive, but the new MDX is like the RDX – smartly updated, and selling like crazy.
The TLX is pretty nice for what it is, which is more than you could have said about any Acura sedan since the 2004-2008 TL. (TSX was cool in its own limited way, though).
My prediction is that in another 5 years, they’ll be back in the mainstream with all of their products.
Take away the Escalade, and Cadillac is in big trouble. Take away the MDX and RDX, and Acura is dead. Yes the TL was once an attractive car, and at one point it was a huge seller. Not anymore. I used to see the ’98-’03 car everywhere, and the ’04-’08 car was also very popular. I think I can recall seeing two beak TL cars. I’ve yet to see a TLX on the road.
The post refresh ILX is serviceable at best, up from the pathetic embarrassment that it was. A premium entry luxury car, but apparently the 12-way power sport seats available in a $28K VW Golf SEL are WAY too premium for the fancy Acura. Adjustable lumbar of ANY KIND, even a manual lever or horrible wheel ala Volvo, is unavailable at any price.
The TLX costs drastically less than the 3 series, because it’s not a 3 series rival. The TLX competes with the Volvo S60, the Lincoln MKZ, and the Buick Regal, cars which all have similar price tags, similar interior quality, and similar FWD with optional AWD. You can put the TLX in the same sentence with a 3 series, but that doesn’t make it a rival. The Q50 and IS are 3 series rivals. The TLX ain’t.
The RLX, yee gad. Come next year, Acura will be looking at TWENTY YEARS of epically falling to understand a market segment. Lexus and Infiniti both blew it with their first 5 series/E-class rivals, but by gen 2 they started to figure out what to do. Acura still hasn’t a SINGLE CLUE about this segment. Even Hyundai destroys them in every way with the Genesis. Hyundai!
The Acura RLX, for when that Volvo S80 is just too common and too stylish. The RLX, a $60,000 super Accord with fake wood trim and the worst interior design in the segment. The RLX, flush away $35K worth of depreciation in 3 years. The RLX, so boring you’ll wish you took the bus instead. The RLX, hey, at least it’s a better seller than the ELR. The RLX, it’s 196″ of car.
The RLX is too JDM. In the rest of the world, a luxury car is expected to make a statement. All of its German competitors are instantly recognisable on the road.
In Japan, cars like the Toyota Crown and Nissan Cima are popular because they offer luxury disguised in more proletarian bodywork and not “stained” with a luxury brand. Similarly, in Korea the Genesis and Equus are branded and styled to fit in with the other ho-hum cars on the road.
If Maserati can sell under-featured, half-baked, overpriced cars in the US, Acura can sell a well-equipped, refined and competitively priced luxury car as well. They just need to get the concept right for the large North American market.
The TLX is selling well overall.
I’m hoping for a “GT” version of the TLX with AWD and big power. They’re going racing with it, so one never knows.
I still miss my 1990 Legend LS Coupe…
That said, we just bought a Q5 TDi instead of a new MDX…
They’re GREAT cars, especially the MDX, just a little too off the radar. The German 3 are hot right now, heck Cadillac is butting its head in.
Acura just needs more marketing.
Reliable and conservatively styled CUVs is what the US public wants and Acura is delivering. I have no doubt the HR-V based CDX will only add to their success.
“Enthusiasts” clearly have other ideas about what makes a great brand – and it usually involves making highly unprofitable niche performance vehicles that virtually nobody ends up buying (including the enthusiast who probably bought a used BMW or Porsche instead).
Every well run company follows the money and Acura is no different.
I always claim to stay away from mainstream cars, but the new MDXs are everyfreakinwhere. If my wife told me she wanted a larger car, I would show her this one first.
It’s got to be one of Acura’s most successful styling efforts. Street presence is right up there with the BMW X5.
“But what I’ve noticed is that Acura actually does pretty damn well for being a company that “turned its back” on automotive enthusiasts, and “lost its direction.”
Same argument can be made for Subaru and Toyota.
The other day I was trying to comprehend Acura’s model line up. Alphabet soup leaves me confused. I think they should have kept the names and the niche. Integra was entry level premium compact with real sportiness built in. Legend was larger sized more luxury oriented. Vigor was mid sized, and was also in a sport state of tune. I recall rumors of a larger than Legend model with the interesting name of “Climax”.
In any case, the name defined the mission. Many great cars that have endured over the decades have nouns rather than alphanumeric nomenclatures. Mustang, Malibu, Corolla, Camry come to mind.
With respect to cars, I do think Acura lost its way for awhile, but there were gems hidden within the blandness, like the 6MT version of the 4G TL. The TSX was good too, even if the 2G is a little boring due to low power and numb steering. (I have a 2010 with 6MT.) But for every one of those, we get something like the RLX and the initial ILX, which was a weak attempt at “entry level luxury.” Apparently, the earthquake and tsunami adversely affected Honda and Acura in many respects, which might explain the stopgap nature of the first ILX.
But I think Acura is coming back in a big way, and will be gaining momentum over the coming years. The TLX seems to be a hit and offers a traditional blend of Acura virtues with decent styling, and the heavily refreshed ILX is getting great reviews. The 8DCT is really cool, and shows some of the innovative spirit that characterized Honda’s best years. The NSX will hopefully arrive soon and live up to its name.
Plus, Acura has announced it is moving toward AWD for its cars, and we know VTEC Turbo engines are coming to the marque in the next year or two. (Honda has announced they’ll arrive in late 2015, and Acura has insisted it will always get Honda’s best engines.) With AWD and turbo torque, Acura should become more competitive with the Germans, and do extremely well. I’m not happy about the extinction of MT within Acura’s lineup, which might send me elsewhere next time, but otherwise things are looking good.
Actually, when you consider the ILX’s segment competitors competitors—which include the A3 and CLA—it’s a very good car, especially if you plan on keeping it longer than the typical 36-month lease period. This is especially the case with the 2016 refresh.
Ever since the death of Soichiro Honda, I think Honda’s direction has gone completely opposite of what he wanted Honda to be. It’s too bad that major sacrifices were made in order to compete. Honda’s engineering is highly envied by many others which explains why Porsche, BMW, etc went to Japan to study them and vice versa. Honda/Acura are great cars but are becoming way too mainstream- something Soichiro Honda would be pissed about…
I owned a 2013 TL Advance for a year. It was a very well made, comfortable, decently roomy car. It had many great options, and the best sound system I have ever had in a car. Aside from that, it was so boring to drive I couldn’t stand it. All the power was way up top in the rev band, and the FWD dynamics didn’t help. I traded it for a 2014 328i M-Sport with some options. Despite the fact that it has 40 fewer horsepower than the TL, it is much faster, and much more fun to drive, while returning better gas mileage. The Acura did better in only 2 ways. The ELS sound system was, again, just great, and it had ventilated front seats, which are not offered in the 3 series. Everything else is better in the BMW(especially the sport seats, which are just plain comfortable).
You guys have pretty much bullseyed Acura’s niche. The long term reliability and overall cost of ownership was a big factor in my purchase of an 05 RSX-S. 10 years and 210k miles later, I couldn’t be happier with that decision. Problem is, even though that long term quality is still there, the personality of the recent line up has gone from entertaining, straight past bland into Novocain. Even though the RSX is a Civic Si with bells on, it always feels like it’s somehow more than the sum of its parts. Nothing in the recent/current line up feels that way to me. Nice cars, sure. Completely understandable why their sales are still strong (at least in the SUV/CUV segment) But that juvenile delinquent element has been completely eliminated. Even with 210k miles on it, my RSX still feels like it’s disappointed anytime I shift below 8000RPM. I drove an ILX recently, it feels like a tax consultant by comparison. Sure, it’s a nice car, but it’s also 30 grand, and *WTF??* it’s no longer available with a manual. Granted, I’m not an SUV/CUV buyer, but for me, Acura’s are no longer worth the premium over Honda’s the way they were a decade ago. Sure they’re nice, but the fun factor is gone. It used to be you could justify their “not quite German” level of enthusiast appeal with their stellar reliability, assuming you were buying and not leasing. Now they’re just nice cars in a vast sea of other nice cars. I bought an Accord 6MT instead.
I agree. No matter how hard you try, you simply cannot make Acura seem less boring.
Hardcore ACURA fan here.
Just bought the Acura I’ve been waiting years to for.
2009 Acura TL SH AWD. Yea, pre-refresh cause it looks better. It’s a work of art. It wonderfully delivers 4 things I crave:
– an exterior design I enjoy staring at. Under differ lighting conditions, the exterior reveals little nuggets you have to discover
– an interior I love sitting in. It feels open, INTUITIVE, roomy, and supremely comfortable. It’s a large car and I love that.
– an engine I love winding out. The J37 has dual VTEC and sings when modified. A comptech intake and stainless steel Jpipe has turned the motor into the musical instrument it is
– the chassis/handling with SH AWD is sublime. The way in which SH AWD creates the yaw moment allows the car to rotate is bliss. You can actually get the car to oversteer as the rears tires claw for traction.
On all four fronts, the TL is the car that delivers. It’s too bad the grill attracted so much negativity because the 2009-2014 TL is one of the greats. Anyone considering a V6 full size family car ought to consider it.
To me, is one of the nicest looking vehicles ever made. Period. Everyone is so hot and bothered over the beak. Insanity. Pure insanity. $1 of black vinyl cleans up the areas that ought not to have been silver. $15 of metallic plasti dip and glossifier lets you “smoke” to a nice gunmetal hue that looks gorgeous. $300 lets you colour match it to OEM.
Anyways. What A MACHINE. It is the real deal and got negative press for the front grill colour. Acura was very stupid in how they painted the grill. They should have simply offered the grill in various hues including monochrome. The car itself is a design masterpeice.
Seriously. Park one in a proper colour under sodium lights at night next to any of its competitors at the time it came out. The body is ripped and bulging. It is the ONLY Honda product I have ever seen that had fenders front and rear bulge the way they do.
I paid hard earned cash for it and have enjoyed it since. Hammering it in harsh weather conditions is such joy.
Thank you Acura.
To add,
The 2009-2014 TL is better looking than the 2004-2008 TL.
Yea, I said it. It’s true.
In NO WAY is the 04-08 a better car.
Many 2007-2008 TL Type S owners have upgraded to 2010-2014 TL SH AWD 6 speed manuals.
The 2010-2014 TL SH AWD 6MT is a very very special car.
I agree with you. I wouldn’t let a single aesthetic point which I could remedy on the cheap keep me from buying the car I want.
The cost of admission for the 6MT ones is still too high for me right now, but congrats for getting your dream car!
So the whole “BMW Lost its Edge” thing did well, lets milk the formula for a third time!
I’m surprised that car buffs miss the “Old Acura”, given that they only made one RWD offering.
Young or old I was never really an Acura guy, the NSX was a darn neat car but their other cars just looked like more plain BMWs, if not enlarged CB Accords. I don’t see what “enthusiasts” are on about.
The Integra was certainly different, someone up the street has possibly the one and only stock one left, good shape too. Only thing with Integras were they were basically Civics with an actual engine in them.
This isn’t really a big surprise, considering that “car enthusiasts” don’t make up the bulk of automotive sales. With the powertrain upgrades for this year, the ILX and RDX are now very competitive in their respective classes. The TLX and MDX are both excellent vehicles with available SH-AWD and V6 engines. The RLX, on the other hand, seems redundant, considering the TLX is a midsizer that offers P-AWS and SH-AWD with a V6.
At a time when Mercedes and BMW are moving away from V8 engines (and even RWD with the CLA and A3), I don’t really think that there’s any incentive for Acura to jump into a market segment with limited volume and growth.
It’s a shame that small coupes don’t really sell anymore, as I would really like to see a modern interpretation of an RSX.
I bought 2 Integras new and literally sweated at a Type-R. These days I’d have to be convinced away from a Lexus or heavily optioned Toyota into an Acura. The ILX sounds like exactly what I would have wanted back then, but it’s been 20 years and I’ve changed.
What I would pay good money for is to see John Glen kick DDM “Square in the”. That would be better than a new NSX.
If you measure success like an industry exec in terms of unit sales and profitability, then Acura is a success because they have several strong selling models and probably don’t cost Honda much extra.
On the other hand platform sharing does mean some people are going to stop buying Acura. Case in point, my mom replaced her 2003 TL with a 2013 Accord, partly because she disliked the newer Acura styling and partly because she didn’t want to pay the premium for an Acura since the Accord now has the same luxury options.