Today marked the introduction of the second turbocharged Ferrari, the 488 GTB. Replacing the 458 Italia, the 488 is another move towards the eventual replacement of naturally aspirated Ferrari engines with turbocharged units.
Ferrari’s engineers are on record as stating that they “don’t like turbos” and are moving towards them solely for regulatory compliance reasons. By all accounts, the new California T is about as good as a turbocharged engine can get in terms of throttle response and driver engagement. The new 488 GTB gets a downsized 3.9L V8 (versus 4.5 in the old car) making a massive 661 horsepower and 560 lb-ft of torque – 64 more than the 458 Speciale that Jack was enamored with during R&T’s Performance Car of the Year test.
But Hooniverse editor and TTAC contributor Kamil Kaluski raised an interesting point. Will Ferrari values rise for the pre-turbo models, similar to air-cooled Porsches?
Moving from N/A to turbo engines doesn’t represent a wholesale change in character the way that the shift from air to water cooling did for Porsche. But it’s not out of the question. Let us know your thoughts.
No.
The price rise for old air-cooled Porsches is driven by the portion of the fanbase that idealizes the era when they were still built and sold as sports cars, rather than trophies of wealth and fashion.
Move to the head of the class, Bumpy. A more cogent and distilled response could not be composed.
And the fact that the 996 cars are sh1t.
Part of me wants to believe this, but another part of me has monitored eBay and the F-Chat classifieds for “3 pedal” F430s and seen the price increase they demand and how quickly they are snapped up. So I believe there’s some truth to the NA models going up in demand.
They even come with a trophy wife I believe…
LMAO!
You think white on white slant nose 930 drop tops were bought for “pure driving pleasure”? Come on guy. Let’s not huff our own farts here, cars like the 911 have ALWAYS been trophies of wealth and fashion. The whole air cooled vs water cooled thing is just an angle for folks to exercise their snobbery.
I don’t think NA V8 Ferraris will go up in price because of the simple fact that 458 derived cars are miles better to drive than those before them. Perhaps the romance of the prancing horse will float values, but even still, the most desirable versions (6 speed coupes) are well off MSRP and far from collectible status.
This turbo era would have to usher in an era of cars that are uglier and worse to drive… I don’t like or have much faith in Marchionne but it would take a LOT to ruin Ferrari at this point. IMO turbocharging is not enough.
re: “The whole air cooled vs water cooled thing is just an angle for folks to exercise their snobbery.”
sportyaccordy / February 3rd, 2015 at 3:06 pm
the remark referenced above sounds like something spoken by one who has never owned, nor appreciated, either.
fwiw, i have owned two of each [’64 356c; ’70 911t; ’97 986; ’07 987] for a total of more than forty years and believe it or not, there is a big difference between the air-cooled and water-cooled models, and that difference has little – repeat LITTLE – to do with ‘exercising snobbery.’
Never said they weren’t different….. my point is one is not clearly superior to the other when you factor in both the objective and subjective. Especially at asset bubble prices air cooled cars are trading hands at now.
NA Ferraris have the potential to be analogous to air-cooled Porsches.
But let’s not get too nostalgic. A 1987 air-cooled Turbo is every bit as much of a display of vanity as a 2015 water-cooled PDK Turbo. Which is either not much or a ton, depending on the observer.
One issue of the PCA magazine last year had an article on a US customer’s one-off Turbo–I think it was the very last 1980s Cabriolet. Every single interior piece was wrapped in leather. Yes, including the instrument gauge faces. Wretched bespoke excess is not unique to the 21st century.
Ferrari buyers are not Ferrari engineers. They already can’t sell enough manual transmission cars to keep one in the catalog. Quantity over quality will serve their new car buyers just fine, and it will be a while until there are enough used Ferrari buyers that wouldn’t rather be new Ferrari buyers. Prices on recent Dino descendents may harden a bit, but they won’t appreciate like real Porsche 911s for at least a decade.
I was not aware of there ever being a lack of demand of the manual transmission Ferraris. I always heard that besides the 612 and the California, there was a large waiting list.
Probably not going to happen as most buyers will simply not care. They want prestige, exclusivity and brutal power and the new 488 delivers exactly that.
Here’s another question: which, if any, Ferrari road cars made after the death of Enzo Ferrari, will ever even come near the dollar value of the late 1950s and early 1960s cars?
Enzos have appreciated since new, but will they ever command 8 figure auction prices?
I think aftermarket Fezza value is largely a function of the average age of a multi-million dollar car buyer – that is to say that guys in their 60’s DESPERATELY want to be McQueen, so the price on a GTO or a Tag Monaco is going to be astronomical as a handful of guys try to pay to feel younger.
You’re already starting to see this with Testarossa’s, and even more earthly stuff like AE86 Corolla’s (and the obvious E30M3) as more guys who grew up in the 80’s and 90’s start to get a little bit of money to blow on mechanical Extenze.
I can’t imagine that you won’t see the same thing happen in 20-30 years for a 458 or a Gallardo – hell, I know more than a handful of people who are keeping their Gallardo’s because they enjoy driving it more than a Huracan.
By the same token, are V12 cars worth more than V8?
V12 cars depreciate like used condoms. They usually end up ~$10k more than V8 cars, but they start $100k more. 4 seaters are the worst.
I think volume alone with dictate that a lot of the new stuff never hits quite those highs, but perhaps the FXX toys would.
All non turbo cars will appreciate at a faster rate.These cars are not just about looks and speed ,you also need the symphony from the exhaust to complete the picture. A car you can recognize without having to see it.
The California T sounds EXACTLY like the various NA V8 Ferraris I’ve driven. If sound is the sole driver (and it isn’t) Ferrari will be fine.
My Fiat Abarth says turbocharged Italian cars can sound amazing too.
NSX Tie in
I think this reveal is partly the reason Acura held off on disclosing final power numbers for the new Acura NSX at NAIS.
One has to wonder what the final NSX output will be. Will they go smaller displacement (2.8-3.0) range to increase FE or will they go this route and have a 3.5-4.0 range of displacement.
You mean how long before atmospheric Ferraris go stratospheric?
288 GTOs and f40s were turbocharged.
They’re also pre-Enzo’s demise.
I feel like much of exotic car price appreciation has little to do with the actual cars.
The 288 at least was before FIA killed group B set to get a competion pedigree.
It was turbocharged because thats what was needed to compete. The F40 could trace it’s lineage directly to the 288 so perhaps turbocharging worked there and both cars didn’t have Ferrari saying that turbocharging is a less than ideal solution for them.
Where Ferrari going forward has to turbocharge their cars to meet government compliance and offer adequate or expected performance diluting what I suppose they consider an essential experience.
Also I’m sure it was a mark of pride for them to use a small displacement high winding NA engine to achieve power numbers other manufacturers achieved with greater displacement and/or forced induction.
All of their engines are bigger than their turbocharged competition from what I recall. Their V12 is over 6 liters!
Yes, I think this will up 458 desirability some.
Until 5 years ago, I think Ferrari enjoyed a monopoly on the entry-level MR supercar. This has held their value up. Now, the used marked will give you a choice of an R8, or MP4-12C. In a few more years, you will also have the NSX, Corvette ZR1, McLaren Sports Series, and an above-911 Porsche.
Used MR car supply will be way up, that has to be a damper on price.
I forgot to add the Gallardo/Huracan to that list.
Man, that looks so much better than the 458 it’s not even close to funny.
When did this worship of the naturally aspirated engine suddenly arise? Seems like about 18 months ago, from what I can tell. TTAC, BMW forums…I see it everywhere these days. Now we’re even getting NA-worship clickbait articles.
Why didn’t I get the memo? And here I was, thinking turbocharging is a good thing.
This is nothing, wait until hybrid supercars start becoming more common. In fact, the 488 could be one of the last non-hybrid Ferraris.