I recently had the opportunity to attend the Philadelphia Auto Show, where I found myself sitting in a shiny, new 2015 Ford Flex. For those of you who aren’t up on your modern Fords, this is the one that looks like a port-a-potty tipped on its side.
So anyway: I’m sitting there, playing with all the beautiful buttons, taking in the surprisingly well-crafted interior, reading about the available 365-horsepower turbocharged engine, checking out all the cool, high-tech features, when it hits me: there is absolutely no way I would ever buy this car.
And I admit, my reasons for this are entirely superficial. On paper, it appears the Flex offers excellent interior room, and excellent powertrains, and excellent equipment, and even surprisingly reasonable pricing. But I just could never get past the fact that I’m driving a vehicle that looks like an enormous coffin on wheels. In fact, it’s interesting that they call it the “Flex,” because every single line on the thing is actually rigid, and blocky, and straight, and the only thing that really flexes is the chassis when it goes around a corner.
But here’s the thing about the Flex: when you talk to an owner of the thing, they absolutely love it. Seriously: walk up to someone at a gas station who’s there with a Flex and ask what they think. They’ll talk forever about how much they love the thing. It’s like when you pull out your iPhone at a meal where someone has an Android, and they see your iPhone, and they talk for days, weeks, months, years, about their Android, and why it’s better, and customizable this, and flexible that, when all you really wanted to do was check your e-mail.
So I admit that I might be wrong about the Flex, but its bizarre styling ensures that I’ll never change my mind. And this leads to today’s question of the day, which is: what’s the best car you’d never buy?
It doesn’t have to be about styling. As I was writing this column, I came up with another excellent example of a great car I’d never buy: the E46 BMW M3. For those of you who don’t know it, this was the BMW M3 they made in the mid-2000s. For those of you who still don’t know it, this is the BMW M3 that’s primarily owned by teenagers who spend more time getting their hair to spike up than they do earning a paycheck.
By all accounts, the E46 BMW M3 is an excellent car. It’s fast, it’s fun, it’s got a great engine, and the interior is still classic BMW, which is to say that the shifter isn’t that bizarre plastic unit that looks like a malformed piece of petrified wood. But if you buy an E46 M3, you’re automatically… that guy.
You know the guy I mean. The guy who leaves his front windows down, even during the winter, so people can hear his music. The guy who believes street racing will identify the better man. The guy who believes that a condom is a debatable part of relations with a stranger. (“C’mon baby… just this once.”) And if you buy an E46 M3, whether you actually are that guy or not is irrelevant: you’re representing to the world that you’re that guy. You’re telling everyone: “Although I may not actually be that guy, we certainly have the same tastes. Now, let me turn up my bass.” And for me, that alone removes the E46 M3 from my list of possible vehicles in the future.
So I ask you: what’s the best car you’d never buy? Due to brand bias, perhaps? Or styling? Or owner perception? Or maybe you’re above all these superficial things, and they wouldn’t stop you from buying any car. Even if it looks like an enormous coffin on wheels.
A Hyundai Genesis
-The V6 with AWD would be a perfect car for me.
-Excellent fuel economy.
-Excellent AWD
-Far superior leg space to my 300, my Jeep, my old W221 – rivaled only by the more expensive XTS/ Impala.
-An optional V8 (Hyundai builds cars LINCOLN should be building)
– A dead quiet ride
– a relatively low price for what you get.
But I’d never buy it because:
#1 It’s a Hyundai, and this ain’t Seoul
#2 SRT is steadily gaining popularity and in NYC very few people have them because of the massive waste of fuel sitting in traffic – and the high cost of ownership.
S.R.T. till I D.I.E…
If I needed an SUV… A Lincoln Navigator/ Expedition would make the most sense for my needs.
If money was no object at all: Bugatti Veyron Super Sport.
This isn’t Brampton, Ontario either…
I’ve gotten to the point that I’m fairly certain a Genesis will be my next vehicle. but I definitely felt you on reason #1 for several years.
That changed when I got the wife a Santa Fe though. I got over it real fast.
Don’t think you can say the MPG is excellent. Think the MKS Ecoboost has better considering everything.
And isn’t the AWD a newer option? When I looked at it there were no cooled front seat or AWD options.
2015s have the cooled front seats and AWD. Some weird option packaging though, ie you can only get rear heated seats and a heated steering wheel with AWD. That said, I’d probably try and find a V6 AWD one ideally.
Not weird at all. Heated steering wheel and heated rear seats are cold-weather options, and you can’t give away a RWD luxury car anymore in cold climates.
Looking at my local Hyundai dealers in Washington state I see that every single V6 Genesis on the lot is AWD.
If I remember right Canada is getting an AWD V8 version of tge Genesis for that very reason.
“S.R.T. till I D.I.E…” oh wow, so gangster.
A Hellcat Charger or Challenger.
There is such a thing as the law of not only diminishing returns, but negative ones, IMO, in a street car once it gets beyond 500 or so HP under the hood, especially when the chassis, suslension or brakes just seen’t capable of taking advantage of anywhere near 75% of that power.
I love you…
You too, bro.
Geez, get a room
DeadWeight, wisely spoken.
Interesting comment. My buddy who is a retired SCCA Camaro racer says the same thing…500 hp is about the right limit for street cars.
Hah, that’s progress for ya! I remember when it used to be 300 or so horsepower.
Back when we had bias ply tires and drum brakes, 300hp was definitely a handful, LOL.
I must be becoming a crackpot. DeadWeight has said two things in two days that I agree 100% with.
My 415 hp G8 has enough power for every street situation and too much for 90% of them. Adding 300 hp wouldn’t increase my enjoyment one bit.
Agreed – I don’t have a GXP but I’m tweaked up to 394 HP at the crank and that is PLENTY. Even with 285/35/20 sticky no wear out might last 15K miles if you’re gentle summer only tires I can break the rear end out at will and get 1-2 and 2-3 shift chirpies. The 1-2 engages the stability control if I lay on it.
I read about some of these G8 guys with 500HP+ at the wheels and it just seems like that would be a nightmare to drive in all but the most ideal conditions.
Just because you cant handle the power, doesn’t mean that I or anyone else cant. Please move out of Michigan.
LOL!
Where should I move to?
p.s. – Early April Fool’s?
I could’ve sworn it stated Derek wrote this article, and now it states Doug “I used $87,000 in Car-Max Warranty Parts & Labor on My Land Rover” DeMuro did?
WTF, you’re right
I love DDM’s writing style. I’m not at all a fan of the douchebaggery that Gawker offers, so here’s hoping Doug spends more time over at TTAC.
mazda 5. It’s a personal thing, what ever i drive has be at least fast as a V6 Camcordima.
Range Rover
Doug DeMuro’s on the upside with RR and Carmax warranty: http://jalopnik.com/my-air-suspension-failed-again-another-carmax-warran-1683787880
Even with the Carmax warranty it’s still a pain in the ass. Doug’s had that thing in the shop a hundred times
Why don’t more people get this?!?! It doesn’t matter if your Luxury dealer gives your a blowjob and a latte every time you are in for something, eventually all people will get tired of a daily-driver car with that many issues, regardless of your income level or the cost of the fix.
An old client of mine ended up giving back his last-gen Quattroporte halfway through the lease because it had literally spent more time in the shop than in his possession after 18 months. The only people I know who drove first-gen Range Rover Sports were neuvo-riche guys who were massive posers – the Maser-owner had one for a month, and swore off the marque entirely for years because there were so many issues (and he was quite happy in a succession of eye-wateringly-top-level trim Yukons as a result.) Sure, none of the people were paying a DIME to have the problems fixed, but even when you are having your PA take the car to the shop for you, you get tired of it.
I love how the Quattroporte looks.
I will never, ever consider owning one without being more wealthy than I have any plausible chance of ever being.
Blowjob AND a latte? Hmmm……
I don’t even like lattes.
Those people take a perverse pride in telling you “my Maserati is in the shop.”
Came here to say just this. RR. Love the style and the idea of the thing, and the stately nature. But the hideous reliability means I’d never buy.
The only RR I have had any desire for was the Gas Monkey Garage Trolls Choice. It would have been a nice toy but I wouldn’t have relied on it as a daily driver.
I love mine to death, but you would be a fool to own one as your only car. And if you are like DeMuro and don’t know one end of a screwdriver from the other, you will NEED that warranty. That guy had the dealer change a taillight bulb. I can’t even imagine doing that…
Ever try to change a headlight in a Mazda5? It has some sort of hinged contraption which you basically can’t see, and if it is your first time doing it, the process is a bit of a mystery. Of course the first time I did it the temperature was -30, so that didn’t help either.
I now use a small nail puller to assist in the effort as it is the only thing I could think of that would fit in the small space and could guide the securing components back in place.
Changing the tail light bulbs on the previous-gen Murano involves taking out several interior panels, undoing several screws, and popping loose several squeeze pegs while pulling the assembly sideways from outside the vehicle and hoping you don’t break anything.
On Muranos, Just changing the headlights (or cleaning your yellowed lense) means taking off the front grille and an assortment of other bits.
I don’t understand why headlight repairs gotten so difficult.
LEDs everywhere will make it an all-or-nothing job, at a cost.
Funny that you mention the bulb; I had my wife stop by the dealer for a tail light bulb for our LR3 as Partsource never stocks the right bulb – it’s a dual filament 21v/5v – PS either have single filament, or wrong voltage, but swear it’s the same part – the LR dash lights don’t agree (Lucas is laughing somewhere, I’m sure). The dealer didn’t want to sell her the bulbs _unless_ she brought the truck in, so they could confirm it would fit (basically sounds like a “we want to charge you to install a bulb”).
While I probably would have lost it, my wife decided to see if far out “logic” would work on them; she explained that she had once been pulled over by the cops for having a bulb out at night, and that if LandRover would pay any tickets she might receive while bringing the truck in, she’d be happy to do so. They grudgingly gave her the bulb, but warned her that she couldn’t return it if it didn’t fit.
It fit fine, though I wasn’t holding my breath – LR dealerships are terrible!
” They grudgingly gave her the bulb, but warned her that she couldn’t return it if it didn’t fit”
Wanna bet?
I hope your wife said that
They did say a “good car,” given according to auction data that average RR doesn’t get to 100K miles…well…hard to call it good.
It’s “Best car that you’ll never buy” The Range Rover is one of the best off-road vehicles I’ll never buy
GTI. I love sport compacts, and in many ways the GTI seems like it should be perfect for me, but I don’t trust VW reliability so for the foreseeable future it’s off my list. Of course there are many others, like Hellcats, Range Rovers, and the S-Class, that I’d never consider simply because I’m not interested in those segments.
Yes, this. I really want to like the GTI, but I am terrified of them falling apart. Stories about dsg computers failing just out of warranty to the tune of a $2300 repair keep me safely away from joining the VAG club.
@ Nedmundo, totally agree on the GTI.
As a more general spin on the idea of reliability concerns, anything with a dual clutch gearbox, a CVT, or direct injection. For the time being, I’m content to have my fellow man continue to beta test those technologies for me. (And I say that as someone who kind of likes the idea of a CVT from a functionality standpoint.)
Yes, I’m paranoid.
Why direct injection? It’s been happily used in diesels (both cars and heavy equipment) for many years.
VW designed a couple of engines really poorly so carbon built up, but that’s about poor design more than the DI technology.
I agree the jury is still out on CVTs, at least in cars bigger than B-class.
I had same thought when I read the list, agreed dual clutch, agreed CVT (to a lesser extent) but DI has been around a looooooong time and is pretty proven out at this point of the game.
@ dal20402 and APaGttH – VW/Audi . . . and BMW . . . and Toyota/Lexus (the 2.5 V6, not the 3.5 that has dual direct and port injection). As I said, I’m paranoid. Obviously a huge number of Ford, GM, and Hyundai/Kia gasoline direct injection cars have hit the road over the past several years. Things should sort themselves out. I just prefer to let others deal with potential expense and inconvenience in the short to medium term.
I wouldn’t infer too much about GDI from diesels. If not apples to oranges, it’s Granny Smith to McIntosh.
I’m not a total Luddite. A friend has 150,000 trouble-free miles on a turbocharged Volvo I5, and I wouldn’t shy away from a turbocharged car as I might have 30 years ago.
@Featherston I agree with you on all points, including DI. With the fuel not wasing past t he intake valves, and all the issues that causes – who here likes pulling their intake and using rifle brushes, carb cleaner, and a shop vac to clean their intake valves every 30K?
I drive a 2012 GTI. VW’s lack of reliability in no urban myth. At 62K miles I have replaced an intake manifold, high press fuel pump, 4 coil packs, spark plugs, battery and 2 sets of rear roll bar endlinks. Add to that $50 oil changes that I do myself and premium fuel. V-dubs offer a great driving experience – WHEN they’re running.
But, replacing coil packs every 30K miles is part of regular maintenance…when you own a VW.
An a 2012? They haven’t fixed that issue since the MKIII 1.8T era?
My 2010 GTI has been nearly flawless over five years of ownership. One thing broke — a door lock switch — and that was replaced under warranty. I have DSG and just had the deale do the 40,000 Mike service for $350. I don’t understand this fear of VW.
It depends on what you mean by “Best Car.”
It means a car you really want but won’t buy because of a million reasons.
A GTI (or doubly so, a GTD if it was available). It’s a nicely refined car, a hatchback, beautiful, powerful…
But it’s a VW, and I’ve both read and seen enough VW horror stories to know better. Kinda goes back to Wednesday’s article. I could afford to buy one, but I couldn’t afford to keep it.
What I really want most is a premium (which eliminates Mazda entirely) Japanese hatchback with a peppy engine (preferably naturally aspirated) and a 6-speed manual.
Hmph, I guess a K24 powered CRZ might have done it for me. For shame Honda.
I have a GTI and it’s the most reliable car I have ever owned. Zero problems in five years.
The Best Car I Would Never Buy is a Corvette, any Corvette. The top-end models have supercar performance for much less money, but I would still never get one, just because I wouldn’t want to be seen in a Corvette.
With you on that.
On paper the Corvette is brilliant.
In person, well, I’ve always thought they were absolutely hideous, apart from the “being that guy” factor.
Yea, I came dangerously close to signing on the dotted line for one. It was pretty nice and deserving of its road test accolades… but the potential penalties of ownership just scared me off into a Civic.
Is it too late to profess my love for kvndoom, or are we allowed only one bromance per thread?
Let your bromantic flag fly!
A Prius. ‘Nuff said.
This.
Great car, well screwed together, excellent gas mileage.
Still an appliance. The only way I will get in one is if it is a taxi.
We own a V and your comment is essentially correct. Although what I have never heard any talk about is the use of hard plastics and some, somewhat flimsy feeling components. This has always suprised me as it seems the term “interior by playskool” is omnipresent on these boards.
Although I will agree the Prius has a fair amount of hard plastic surfaces, it isn’t anywhere near as a FR-S – which is my standard for Soviet grade made by Coleman cooler interiors.
The Prius interior doesn’t seem luxurious (mouse fur upholstery, meh head liners) but there is worse out there.
Wouldn’t own one – too much of an appliance on wheels. I do like the V form factor and I really wish the Volt 2.0 was more like that and less sedan.
Was thinking of some people who were trashing the Regal for cheap hard plastics. Friend has one and its interior is much more solid than our V.
It is a good appliance, and through its ownership has gotten me really interested in a future all electric or Volt type vehicle
My coworker had a first gen Prius with a 180k miles. The one with the broken chicken wing gear selector, and that thing was crazy dependable and didn’t have a single rattle or squeek. Last week i rode in a Prius V taxi and it was a complete rattle trap that clunked over every DC road imperfection.
I’m on my second Prius, both are gen 3 (2010 – current). I’m an enthusiast, otherwise I wouldn’t be on this site. So I have other “fun” cars in the stable to compare it to.
The Prius is dead reliable and very cheap to operate. It’s also roomy and practical, and I even tow with mine. Sometimes just on the battery.
All that said, the thing can be miserable on any trip when I am trying to make time. The constant wee wee wee of the engine revving up and down with the cvt is enough to make me want to set the cruise at 60 and be late. Someone said the engine sound is akin to strangling a kitten. Yes.
It will (surprisingly, and to the surprise of many) go well past 100 without much effort, but it will sound horrible while doing it.
After a recent trip to Michigan, I was done. I would take just about any other car. Then again, fuel is very cheap. When it was $4/gal, the Prius was my darling. And it probably will be again.
” The constant wee wee wee of the engine”
There’s a deal breaker right there, I hate when an engine goes wee wee ;-)
Got my wife a 2014 Prius. I’ve had many used German cars from Boxsters to S4’s to M5’s.
Living in Virginia and having gotten too many tickets, the Prius is just what I need to drive slowly and enjoy doing so.
I have come to love the video game aspect of the Prius – every drive becomes a game to maximize mileage (with no worry about tickets) and find myself actually driving too slowly to get maximum battery power driving. Yes, I try not to go too slowly to irritate those behind me etc, but somehow it’s cool and fun to see how high I can get the MPG.
It takes actual technique to do this – after accelerating up to speed you must back off the throttle to engage EV mode then gently on the throttle to keep it there (watching the bar graph in the display to keep it just under where the engine comes on). You start to plan ahead and get on the pedal early to keep momentum as EV mode has very weak acceleration.
This may not sound fun but it adds a fun technical aspect to normal surburban driving that other cars don’t have (of course driving a manual anything adds this too). My wife is of course oblivious to this and laughs at how I turn driving it into a guy thing.
Also, sitting in traffic, lights and general urban delays become much more tolerable when you know you aren’t buring any gas. MPG for such trips can be in the high 50’s to high 60’s.
There is a subconscious good feeling at the end of every drive when you look at the MPG display and realize how little it cost you.
I still love fast cars, wonderful sounding & feeling engines, manual gearboxes, etc, but the Prius satisfies in other ways. As a bonus I find myself driving slower and don’t have to worry about more tickets. Instead of being frustrated that I can’t use my high-performance engine, constantly restraining myself and looking for any possible gap to enjoy some brief acceleration/handling; I am actually more relaxed driving the Prius because I drive so calmly.
It’s also one of the few smaller cars that can hold a mountain bike in the back without removing the front wheel. It’s such a practical size/shape with a very wide cargo area.
The interior is of course very crappy plastics (with poor fit/finish and several rattles appeared at only 5k miles), but the interior styling is very cool and different – it kind of feels like the future and makes it appealing in its own way. Much more interesting than many inexpensive cars’ interiors. I can forgive the interior since the car only costs about $22k after rebates & bargaining.
My “Dream Car” that I’ll never buy cause damn wife and kids, is Rubicon. Best car I’d never buy, either RR or Lx570. I’d love a new Land Cruiser, but I’d never buy its twin cause I don’t wanna be “that guy.” Plus LC has a great history. I’d never buy the RR, even though it’d fit my needs perfectly, cause I like my bumpers to not fall off (see: my dad’s newly leased 2012, 2 weeks after he got it).
Try a 4 door rubicon? You can at least pretend it’s a family vehicle
A 4 door Rubicon would be my second choice
It took quite awhile to grow on me, but now I like the 4-door as much as, if not more than, the 2-door. And if I could convince my wife to do her 60 mile roundtrip commute in the Ruby, I’d be all over it. Until then, it’s 10 year old TSX. Cause I ain’t giving up my Ody till they pry it from my cold dead hands (knock on fake wood).
Any new BMW or Audi. Either three years old used at 20% of MRSP.
As much as I’ve loved them since my youth, I would never own a Corvette. Probably not a Porsche either, for the same reason: I don’t want to be that guy.
I don’t know. I think you can own a Vette without being that guy. A lot of those guys own Vettes, true, but enough owners I think just appreciate the car that I think you’d get the benefit of the doubt. Unless you really are that guy?
I looked at a C7 and came close to buying one. But I couldn’t shake the feeling I’d need to buy some loafers and gold chains. Or that I’d give off a Sam Malone vibe (not that there’s anything wrong with that…).
I looked, and bought the C7. I will not deny wrestling a bit with the outdated image of “old man with a gold chain” douche but in the end the superb vehicle won me over. I sure don’t fit into the old stereotype and have ZERO regrets on my purchase. Until the dawn of spring, she remains dormant in my garage…
I’m far from that guy, but I’m old enough to pass for one if I undo a coupla buttons and add some gold chains/rings. I’m sure that people would roll their eyes behind my back when I drove it.
Probably just as important is that I’m far too practical to own a 2-seater with no more functionality than going fast and impressing people. I need my wheels to be able to serve more parts of my life than that, even tho I love to see and dream about all types of sports cars, from the MGs of my youth to the supercars of today. Maybe I’ll go buy a Powerball ticket…
A Hyundai/Kia (any). They are now very good cars, but I grew up in an era where they were absolute garbage, and I still feel that buying one says to the world “I bought the cheapest car with X list of features I could find!” I like to think I buy my cars because I want the car, not because I have to buy the cheapest thing I can get, and H/K seems to me to be just the cheapest thing I can get.
I’ll still recommend them to others though.
They’re also more expensive, often, feature for feature, than Toyotas, Hondas & Nissan, which is mind-boggling.
(Though the 2015 Genesis with the FINALLY properly sorted suspension is the sole Hyundai product that is worth the price of the equivalent competition)
“They’re also more expensive”
+1 No sh1t, their crossovers are really getting up there
I’d still LOVE to have a Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track over a 370Z/G37 just for the mindset of not being “that guy”.
The big Santa Fe seems like way too much monies.
$41,500 for a Limited AWD 7 passenger is pretty much inline with everyone else.
Any Fiatsler or GM vehicle. Granted they have released better and better vehicles in recent years, but I will not forgive them the transgressions that led them into BK nor the horrific decisions that that they made during.
Don’t trust em, never will.
But then, Ford made just as many transgressions – their timing just worked out so they failed slightly before the recession, and had to bail themselves out (with cheap loans, and mortgaging every single thing that had even a semblance of value), instead of failing at a worse time. They literally screwed themselves into looking like heroes, so why do they get a pass?
Regardless of the timing, the fact is that Ford did manage to pick itself up via utilization of its own resources. Not by taking taxpayer money; many of whom were not in any way interested in bailing out failed for-profit enterprises.
Not to mention that they were then (at least partially) gov’t owned businesses who proceeded to take away valuable assets from some (read: bond holders and franchise owners) and hand them to others for free (I.e. The unions and other dealers who had done nothing to earn those assets). It’s actually akin to an illegal interpretation of eminent domain.
The whole thing just stinks. That is not America.
Any GM vehicle, thanks to bad experiences. ($500 for a head gasket in a 1984 Pontiac Sunbird on a 1991 college student’s budget made an indelible impression on me. That, coupled with GM’s reluctance to work with my Dad on problems with the last-year carburetor in a 1986 Century made my family a Honda family for life.)
Fiatsler, I might chance something like a 2017 300C (after seeing reliability ratings from various places for five full years after the place began to turn around). Sergio’s doing some good things.
No Fords–I’ll be checking them out at the auto show today, but the weird center-stacks and goofy-sounding audible warnings (seriously, why did they get rid of the elegant ’90s “bong-bong” chimes, except couple it with a warning display), and overworked, gas-sucking “Ego-Busts,” among other things, make me say “forget it!”
A VW GTI with DSG might be fun, but not the repair bills out-of-warranty!
I’ll never be able to afford an S-Klasse, and with typical German “reliability” (see above), so much the better! Same with any Mercedes. Or Bimmer.
Saw a window sticker on a Ford today you would have enjoyed: “No taxpayers were harmed during the manufacture of this vehicle.”
I have seen that slogan on several Ford pickup trucks in my area and West Texas as a bumper sticker, next to “Romney for President” bumper stickers.
@gt
I like that sticker. When I win the PowerBall and buy a GT, I’ll plaster one on proudly.
@cat
Just because Romney wasn’t elected doesn’t mean that the world wouldn’t be a better place than if he had been.
I agree. After the government bailout they go ahead and botch a massive contract with Manchester United, spending millions on a market that they are pulling out of (Europe). Even if their cars get better, I will not buy them. I’d rather get a Ford.
I’d never own a brown station wagon with a manual. Evidently, the B&B have long said that’s the best car for everyone.
Honestly, this is a problem I don’t have. I can’t find any car I do want to buy. They are all flawed in some way. If a new Range Rover Sport was $30,000, got 22 MPG city and was as reliable as a Camry or Accord (and as cheap to repair) I’d buy it immediately. It’s the perfect car.
I would totally buy a brown wagon (I am contemplating a brown or tan wagon now, in fact), and I’ve owned a brown diesel, and if there was an appropriate brown diesel wagon* I’d totally buy one.
But I’m not buying a manual anything.
(* The 328d would be appropriate for what I’m considering … if it was Allroad/Cross Country’d. But it ain’t, and “a 3 series with no trunk” isn’t what I want…)
(Ranty time:
Oh, Audi. Why no Allroad with the 3.0TFSI? *Or* the 3L diesel?)
Not a car but a car category. I could never buy a new car without ever considering a used one first.
I built a spreadsheet of every luxury car I wanted to own in 2007. Back then, every manufacturer posted the depreciation of their cars on their website. My carefully crafted spreadsheet essentially said that luxury cars lost 50% of their value by their 3rd year, and by their 5th year they’d only be worth ~30-40% of their MSRP.
Fast forward to 2012, and I checked the table against actual market value of 2007 cars on Autotrader. I pretty much nailed the formula.
For me, a financial advisor, I can think of a lot of things I’d rather do with the money than spend it on a new car every 3-5 years. And that’s not even including the hassle of dealing with option bundles, doc fees, haggling, etc. of the dealership experience.
For what it’s worth, the lowest depreciation was a 2007 ES350 (46% on MSRP), and the highest was a 2007 BMW 760Li (only worth 22% of MSRP in 2012).
Thank you for your financial advice in capacity as financial adviser. I have posted this on my blog!
/hehe
I just mentioned how the 7 Series is the red-headed step sibling, and essentially a very much more expensive, slightly larger 5 Series, to the opulent MB S Class & “Cool” Audi A8, in another thread –
– and holy Toledo –
– do they depreciate like crazy even by full sized German executive saloon standards.
I think BMW is has been & is just incredibly lazy when it comes to the 7.
“Stretch a 5er, add some unique techno-gadgets, done.”
You and I have eerily similar thought process, at least in regard to a passion for resale. The rub with the majority of those so called luxury cards is they are two steps from the junkyard at their five or seven year values due to how poorly designed or engineered they are for long term use. FWIW Lexus is the best value proposition from a new purchase standpoint and generally commanded the highest resale. I think I saw the previous gen ES do near 70% of msrp after 18 months and 20kish miles, which is quite impressive.
it always struck me that a used 5 series is a much better value than a new 3 series. Plus 99% of the population would not know the age of the car, and would be impressed with it. (if you care about such things)
Of course you would have to get the extended warranty.
This expresses my thoughts on Mercedes Benz. I don’t want the payments required of a new one, and the used ones carry the double bonus of steep depreciation and wallet-emptying maintenance costs. The C is relatively inexpensive, but there are far, far better options out there.
– any BMW, because I don’t want to be that guy
– Hyundai Genesis/Equus, because of brand bias. and also because here in Brazil, Hyundai drivers are those guys as well
– Jaguar XF. it is a brilliant car but I just can’t stand that faux-metal strip across the dashboard
True.
I should have added any new Rolls-Royce to the list. but I’d gladly take any pre-2000 model. what’s your list, Marcelo?
That faux metal strip is, in fact, very real aluminum.
thanks for the input, Sir. but this strip is still a deal breaker to me
“- any BMW, because I don’t want to be that guy”
+1
I still think they are beautiful cars though. :)
Miata.
I’m glad it exists, and I actually do fit in it but I don’t really like small, relatively low-powered cars.
Exactly!
This is my choice as well.
It is my car.
But there is no more ME. From now on it has to be a US family car or one acceptable to everybody…meaning the wife.
No stick.
No two seater.
In 1963 my dad brought home a 1961 Corvette to my mom and two small children. During the week we had it my mom didn’t say two words to him. He traded it even on a new 1963 Impala, they’re still happily married
I have an uncle who grew up in a family of 5 where both parents drove mid/late 60’s Corvettes. “Whaddya mean ya can’t put 3 kids and a weeks worth of groceries in a Corvette? We did it all the time.”
I vaguely remember trying to convince my parents that my sister and I would be quite comfortable in the open back area of 1963 Stingray split-window Coupe that the ’61 Corvette convertible didn’t have, we still got the new Impala, damn
You could. But you can’t. It’s a CPS sort of thing. Had a 75Vette and it worked well for the two of us. Then we got a 78 model kid. It wasn’t too long before he wouldn’t fit in the space behind the seats. The kid or the Vette. Had to think about that for a long time…..
If he kept it, he could have enjoyed 54 years of peace and quiet to date… silence is golden!
The more I see and read of the next Miata…it might well be it gets into my garage.
It just might be OK to have ME moments.
It would be my private part of the planet.
Sort of like it has “Warning Do Not Enter…Plague” posted on its windows. Standard trans being its own family repellent.
And like you say…a little silence can be good.
“The more I see and read of the next Miata…it might well be it gets into my garage.”
That’s if your wife lets you. Happy wife, happy life, ask my dad
I say the exact same thing about the Mini Cooper. I’m glad it exists, it makes me smile to see them on the road, but I could never stomach that wacky interior.
As a dedicated wagon buyer, I’d consider a “Flex-minus”… the Flex is so large, and such a gas hog that it’s off my list.
Gotta go with the Range Rover. I like them, I really do, always enjoy riding in friends’. It’s a great vehicle and really does feel special.
But if I were buying (new of course), I just couldn’t do it. If I’m spending $90k on an SUV, I want it to be reliable. I’d save myself some trouble and get an Infiniti QX80 or Cadillac Escalade.
The QX80 is hideous, more so after its facelift. The Escalade…maybe…probably not. I think I’d get an LX 570, especially because of how they retain their resale value…
I can’t stand the damn split tailgate. It’s Special and British on the Rover, but Toyota has no excuse. Put a friggin’ liftgate on it already.
The split tailgate actually works really well. You can pack it full of gear and it won’t all fall back out when you open it again like on a lift gate, doubly so if you are on any type of incline. It’s also a good mini barrier and loading ramp for our dog. We own an LX and every SUV owner I’ve talked to that has seen the clamshell tailgate wishes theirs did the same.
I like the clamshell. A couple of other vehicles that use it are the BMW X5 and the Volvo XC90. The clamshell on the LX 570 is much better than the GX 570’s door, which swings out *toward* the curb…
*GX 460*
Any Mercedes, due to small town badge-envy considerations.
I test drove both the Flex and the Explorer Sport, and dismissed them both. If a Flex Sport existed, there would be one in my garage.
You mean the Flex Limited Ecoboost? I hate to break it to you but it does exist.
It even comes in sinister black, looky…
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIMsgZgeb4M/maxresdefault.jpg
Flex EcoBoost has basically the same changes as Explorer Sport. It’s got the same engine, bigger brakes, and a lower, stiffer suspension.
Jag XF. I think they look great and drive wonderfully. But I can’t get over the fear of terrible reliability and hyper depreciation. Last month I saw a dealer trying to shift two NEW 2013 XF’s with 20% knocked off the MSRP. Not a good sign…
There’s a lot of them…
After owning an Audi I have sworn off European cars. I’d love a 1 Series (2 Series, I guess), GTI, RS4, S60R/V70R, Fiat 500 Abarth, or an E39 M5 but I just can’t get past my experience.
Full size pickup. I’ve owned 2 Dakotas and I presently own a Tacoma that I sort of inherited. Both are already too big for me to be comfortable in. Anything bigger would be absolutely useless. Plus cars are dynamically so much better to drive on a daily basis.
Suv/cuv. I have a fast AWD wagon, I have no use for them. They take the worst part of SUVs and cars and combine them into one package.
Despite loving my Legacy, I’ll probably never buy another Subaru again. I said I love it, I didn’t say I trust it.
Full sized luxury car. There’s something that draws me to them, but they are too big. The one major exception would be for the first gen Infiniti M45.
But the absolute best car I like but would never buy? Honda Civic Si. I could get a FoST for a similar or lower price. Plus it doesn’t offer enough over the other cars in its class anymore.
Corvette.
The classic “dirty old man car”, according to more than 1 woman I know.
Also, the peer pressure from other owners to grow a mustache…
All the way down here and no one has called him out yet on just saying E46? No model years? And I’m not seeing the porta potty on its side look. I think it looks like one of those DubDub 2 German car-track-tank things. I think DK is trolling us.
“For those of you who don’t know it, this was the BMW M3 they made in the mid-2000s.”
You forgot the “3-Series” part
Ach, du Scheiße!
Gesundheit
I have no idea how I missed that. I actually do try to read the articles. Even on a second reading to see to what you were referring I didn’t catch it right away. (Still doesn’t tell me what the M in M3 stands for, smarty pants!). But thanks.
“M”= Megabucks
It started out with the late-70s M1, which was more or less a skunkworks project by BMW Motorsport to develop a mid-engine I6 Lambo. BMW ended up building and selling the car themselves, then put the engine in the regular 5- and 6-series bodies in the ’80s to make the M5 and M6. At that point, they just decided to call their top performing models M-whatever.
Hey Derek,
Lovin’ the snark. Here’s the latest proof you’re really getting the hang of this:
“For those of you who aren’t up on your modern Fords, this is the one that looks like a port-a-potty tipped on its side.”
…and…
“For those of you who still don’t know it, this is the BMW M3 that’s primarily owned by teenagers who spend more time getting their hair to spike up than they do earning a paycheck.”
Keep up the good work!
Anything with a Lincoln badge.I would always be reminded of those lame ass Mathew Mcconaughey commercials and want to steer the front end into the nearest concrete abutment.
Or the Jim Carrey SNL spoof and accidentally hit the abutment from laughing too much.
At the time I saw the Jim Carrey spoof on SNL, I hadn’t yet seen the actual Bull in middle of road one, which needn’t be spoofed; it’ll never get more hilarious or bizarre than as is.
I don’t read this site for sex advise lol
Well it’s true, you should never have sex in a port-a-potty tipped on its side
TMI, but I have actually done the deed in a rental Ford Flex… great car for that purpose.
You could have done it with twins in a Flex
Back in college (1995 to 1999) I knew a guy in his late 20’s with a 1990 Fleetwood Brougham. He told me the salesman tried to sell him on it based on the cavernous back seat. (Eye roll)
This man is my new hero of the past.
Especially since the 90 not Brougham FWD model probably had more rear seat room.
MY90 I believe offered the TBI 305 and 350 SBC option as opposed to the snoozer Olds 307-Y.
I did the deed with a half-Korean, half-American college girl in a manual Ford Fiesta in the early 90s, when I was 17 1/2.
There so many layers of irony there (that gen Fiesta itself was a Ford copy of a Mazda built in Korea & exported to the U.S.).
Uh oh, look at that username. How much gel you rockin’ bro?
Hah! Fess up buddy! What kind of Oakleys do you own?
linkhttps://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2226/2136703349_d28b615675.jpg
E-frames and Eyejackets. I think he has some new variant of the old Romeos in the pic.
A Honda Fit. It should be the ideal car for me – I love small, reliable hatchbacks; seemed to be on C&D best 10 car list forever; has a ridiculous amount of space inside.
But it just looks too dorky.
You are referring to the newest model, aren’t you? I have the first gen and can get pass its looks issues but I don’t think I can do it for the newest generation. Otherwise, fantastic little car.
Toyota Century. Even if I had the money, I don’t think they’d sell one to a lanky, wild-haired gaijin. That would be… improper.
Oh, sure, you can even donk it…
http://jdmvipcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/vip_toyota_century.jpg
I can picture a salesman at a Toyopet store* thinking, “Bumpy ii brings dishonor to himself by opting for a leather interior over the wool cloth that the Emperor favors.”
– – –
*Do they sell them there? I totally don’t understand the Japanese dealer network.
At that level, I think your Executive Secretary’s lovely assistant contacts someone at Toyota directly and arranges for the car to be constructed.
The Japanese dealer networks are kinda like GM’s old hierarchy, except everyone uses the primary brand name. The model lineups generally have some sort of overarching theme (comfort, sporty, luxury, kei cars, etc.) which results in a lot of near-duplication across the sales channels.
“I can picture a salesman at a Toyopet store* thinking, “Bumpy ii brings dishonor to himself by opting for a leather interior over the wool cloth that the Emperor favors.”
– – –
*Do they sell them there? I totally don’t understand the Japanese dealer network.”
I could live again & never you understand it as gaijin.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Actually I think the Flex is one of the attractive new vehicles. Smooth, clean, elegant. Most of the other similar vehicles have so many swoops, swirls, ridiculous angles, they look like someone’s nightmare. Just another viewpoint.
+1. Love the Flex. I don’t need anything that big, but I like its looks.
Amen.
(I mean, I won’t buy one, because I have a truck, and don’t need a big SUV to go with it.
But I’ve always liked its looks, and in principle it’s a great vehicle.)
I like the looks of the Flex and I must be one of the few with a Wife that likes the looks of it too. We did test drive one but the fact is we couldn’t see buying another 7 passenger vehicle since the number of times per year we need one has been shrinking as our kids got older. It also was lacking in tow capability and didn’t have that large of an increase in mpg. So instead we decided to keep our existing one and supplement it with a Sedan that sees the majority of use. That way we still have a 7 passenger vehicle that can tow and carry larger items and since it now sees only about 4-5K miles per year it should last us for many more years.
Hmmm.. Absolutely the best car I would never buy?
Its hard to get past my Mustang fetish so there is that.
There are whole categories of vehicles I wouldn’t buy mostly in the realm of mundane transportation from your average mid-sizer to a full size truck (mini-truck would get an exemption though as that is something useful to me in both size and capability) and definitely wouldn’t be caught dead in a mini-van.
Specific car though? That’s a hard one to nail down, I’ve even grown a dislike for AWD vehicles simply because every buffoon on the interwebz insists you need one shod with a set of summer tires until the temperature falls below 70 degrees then swap them out for the snow tires you keep strapped on the roof (only newbs and fools are dumb enough to run all-seasons or so I’m told).
I love the way my Outback handles, especially in the rain. We hardly ever get anything close to snow here in Houston. But I don’t imagine buying a non-AWD going forward.
Going to go in a different direction and say a Chrysler 300. It is IN THEORY almost the exact car I want:
– sedan body style
– V6/V8
– spacious
– interesting style compared to altima/camry/accord/malibu
– pretty good value and features set (stereo, leather, heated seats etc)
– made locally (20km away)
However just this morning I saw one with the unforgivable “shark tooth” grill and fake bentley badge on the front. This car is just too tacky in reality, you see it with the 22″ rims and the aftermarket Phantom grill and just roll your eyes.
Right there with you. I’ve had both the V6 and V8 as rentals. They are great cars for North America. Cheapish, nice interiors, nice ride quality, long legs…and in stock form pretty good looking.
But then I see the modified versions, and think about long-term Chrysler quality concerns (which persist) and I just could never. Ditto for the 200.
I guess that leaves us with a Flex Ecoboost or Regal if we want to “buy local”.
I can’t get past the idea that it is what Tony Soprano would drive. It’s a mobster car. Those gun-slit windows don’t help.
I stopped caring after season two, but I thought Soprano drove a Suburban. I see 300 as a stab at the 60s Lincolns and Chryslers that falls short.
Tony does drive a Suburban, at least for the first 4 seasons. I think he might switch to an Escalade at some point in season 4 or +. Season 4 was around 02 when the new version of the Escalade bowed and became instantly popular.
Plus, he’s still in the mid 90s square Suburban which is quite old by that time.
In one of the later seasons he bought his wife Carmela a Cayenne. I think they were getting in the zeitguist of them as the upscale mom vehicle or as the Top Gear folks call them, the choice of footballers wives.
She’s in an E-Class wagon now. In season one and maybe two, she had an old 300E wagon (or whatever those were called). One time, they did show the E-cabrio from the mid 90s in the garage as well. That one was a one-show’er.
Yes! Although my qualm on top of the ‘impending hood ride status’ is that for such an un-apologetically “American” sedan, for it to be made in Canada and imported just doesn’t sit right with me. My Civic was made in Canada but that’s different.
Yesterday, I saw an XJ …6, I think it was.
With “Turbo” and Jaguar badges applied in matching blinged-up block letters. Very not stock blocky bling letters.
(There were four badges on the back; I think two were stock. This is why I can’t recall what the model was, exactly. It was too busy and awesome to remember it.)
And … air vents, in chrome.
Glued on to the sides of the REAR DOORS.
It was the most impressive thing I saw on my commute home.
It’s a bold statement to put block TURBO letters on a naturally aspirated car.
The image of the 300 doesnt suit me.
Tacky is a good word. Style mods to cars like bigger wheels, grills, tinting etc. Not really a fit with executive.
Great post!
My primary issue with any of the new offerings at this point is the price, good god cars are expensive and I get all the inflation adjusting, increased mpg, safety etc. It is really hard for me to stomach the idea of dropping 40, 50, or God forbid 60 large in a new car.
As for me
hellcat or even SRT. I love them, but how do I justify guzzling that much gas every day? Hellcat…well that just stupid what mortal can handle 700hp on city streets. Most on here will say they can, I am comfortable admitting that I not only don’t have the skill to handle it or the maturity to be given the responsibility of having it (and I am knocking on 40 wife two kids pretty much the text book definition of boring middle aged white guy).
Any luxury car…want one but will never drop the coin.
But…I will own a vette again. I am bummed so many of you feel the stereotype precludes you from ownership. A used vette is one of the most fun value cars out there. Dead reliable, good on gas comparably only downside is they eat rear tires (see above maturity note). I don’t have a stache, gold chain what have you I think that archetype is slowly receding as more folks get one and actually use them often and not park them in their garage forever.
One other disadvantage, not mentioned. Vettes around cops are like red capes in front of bulls: they can’t resist charging them. In the late 1980s, I had one of the then new post-malaise era Vettes for a weekend in the the SF Bay area to drive. Finally, after a decade of shame, a Vette that actually drove like a Vette rather than merely sounding like one!
A police officer dropped in behind me on Highway 1 somewhere in Marin county. I had been enjoying the Vette’s relative cornering prowess, but I saw the guy as soon as he dropped in behind me. I set the cruise control right at the speed limit and toodled along for quite a while before he finally gave up.
All sportscars are cop bait. But I think Vettes are near the top of their secret list.
Of course it didn’t help that this particular car was “arrest-me” red.
Red, is the reason. Every red car I ever had attracted cops, didn’t matter what kind of car it was
Car and Driver made the claim many years ago that the best vehicle for speeding or breaking vehicular laws was a grey minivan with a coating of dirt. Invisible to cops.
One could also make that claim for a beige Buick Century.
Can confess that I have gotten away with a couple of startling things, right in front of cops, in my dark grey Forester with a perma-coat of Northwest winter grime.
On the other hand, in my shiny G8 with 19″ polished wheels, I got busted for cruising along at 9 over the limit.
My brown-and-tan w115 Mercedes was *invisible* to police, I swear.
(Of course, er, it was also slow.
But I *did* break the limit in it, and I swear cops looked right through it.)
(But contra Lie2me’s anecdote – and I’m not denying he got police attention if he says he did – all the *insurance agencies*, who would *know*, swear that red cars don’t get more tickets or more wrecks.
Makes sense, in that cops are motivated either by making big tickets or by public safety.
*Either* incentive leads them to target the worst speed violators or reckless drivers, not the reddest cars.)
I can say that a grey-green BMW wagon might as well have a cloaking device.
FACT: A “Beige-mobile” is faster than a sports car.
Go 5mph above the speed limit in a bright red Corvette or 911, it’s a ticket.
Do 20 above in a tan Camry? Cops don’t care.
All true. Well over 200K in a K car and pulled over zero times. 100K in a white Altima, zero tickets. Red Probe, ticketed four times in 75K of driving. Same highway speeds, which is where all the tickets were received. So far, nothing in the dark red C7, though at 2400 miles that is not saying much. Car and color does certainly make a difference. The fact that a performance car at 75 is far safer than a Reliant at the same speed is not lost on me either. Safety first, yeah right.
Oddly enough, a maroon VW van seems to draw more attention. I get followed all the time in my Vanagon, but that might just be the Phish stickers and especially out of state, the Washington plates. I have a feeling cops look at my car and see the headline: “Local Sheriff makes massive drug discovery during routine traffic stop.”
There have been studies linking car colors and speeding tickes. The conclusion: white cars are the most ticketed color on the road, followed by black. Red was a distant third. Now, whether those studies were corrected for the relative ubiquity of white and black cars, I cannot say.
My Evo VIII was red, and so is my current ride, a Mk VI GTI. No speeding tickets accross those twelve years of ownership. No police attention whatsoever, really.
Alfa Romeo. Brilliant in so many ways, agonizing in so many others. Car history back to the ’60’s here, so perhaps the new ones will be better.
Best car I’ll never buy? Any of a variety of luxury cars that just don’t make financial sense. Probably the two I want most are an Audi S8 and a Tesla P85D. I’d have to go beyond “successful professional” into “independently wealthy” to be able to feel good about buying a $120k car.
Best car I could buy without wrecking my finances but won’t anyway? Any of the near-luxury Germans. The pricing is a bit of an insult and there’s still a bit too much reliability roulette.
Now the Flex is the one three-row CUV I *would* buy. I freaking love that thing, especially with EcoBoost and second-row captain’s chairs. It’s a minivan with real attention to design and effortless power. I find myself rationalizing why I need a three-row CUV even though I just have one kid because I like the Flex so much. Unfortunately my wife hates it, but I’d buy one anyway tomorrow except I’m enjoying having no car payment for the moment.
You’ll have me as your competition on the used 2013 quad seat Flex.
I’d put the P85D into that same category. I could afford it, if that was my priority, but I just couldn’t stomach paying that much money for a car or something that would depreciate that rapidly in general. Now if I won a few million I’d order one right away.
@ dal20402 – I *love* the second-row captain’s chairs. A friend has them on his Explorer. It’s not like we haven’t seen them in vans for years and years, but something about their use in a CUV makes them seem novel. And I like the access it gives to the third row. (Diclaimer: I haven’t tried accessing the third row in a non-Captain’s-chair Explorer or Flex. For all I know it’s just as easy.)
They’re fantastic in all sorts of ways. They give access to the third row, they’re comfy, they’re heated, they move fore/aft, and best of all in the Flex Limited they power-fold. The power folding 2nd and 3rd row seats might be the feature that sells my wife on the car even though she finds it ugly — she recently had back surgery and still struggles with even moderate weights if she has to reach.
Subarus. Airy AWD wagons with ground clearance and you can actually see out of them. Not terribly expensive. Good DIY forums and aftermarket. Longitudinal even! I can’t come up with one practical argument against.
I just can’t get past the gays and granola brand image.
Spend a few months in New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, or the Pacific Northwest. You’ll get over the brand image because you’ll see everyone, of any demographic, driving Subarus.
Yep, they are much more common in the PNW. Take my dad’s 96 Legacy as an example, he’s in heavy construction and has a 5 acre hobby farm. In a very short time the car went from being driven by a yogurt head(no insult intended) to a family vehicle, to be a trashed out commuter car that gets loaded with hay and construction materials on a regular basis.
My wife’s very Mormon relatives have been buying Subarus for decades. They live in Washington, so there you go.
Dan, are you often mistaken for a lesbian?
Dan, Subies are very popular with all demographics in mountain and ski-country. Where I live, the Outback, Forester and Tribecka are overabundant primarily when it snows.
Ski Lodges and Resorts have tons of them for guest services, like Shuttles, because they last a very long time with very little care, and they can go places even big 4wd trucks don’t dare to go.
Subaru the unofficial car of Santa Fe, Los Alamos, and Taos.
I have an Outback in my stable and based on my observations there are two types of people who buy the Mainstream products (Forester, Outback, Legacy, non-WRX Impreza):
50 year old white men (and their families)
Lesbians
Your basic new(er) Legacy/Impreza sedans are common here in the snow belt by every demographic simply by virtue of their AWD. I have yet to see a man driving an Outback of any model year.
None of the people that I know who own a Subie as part of their stable of cars are
50 year old white men (and their families)
Lesbians
In my area, ski resorts own them, young upwardly mobile families living in mountain country, some with pregnant wives, church members in their late 60s and 70s, and young, athletic military people who like to go to the mountains during their off-duty time.
The Jeep Wrangler in both Hard top and Soft top is probably the second most favored 4wd vehicle in my area.
Regional.
Here in the Northwest they’re just omnipresent.
Around here, I think Subarus just come from the factory with a matching pair of Columbia fleece jackets.
I was in greater Seattle area for a near week in September, and I swear on all that is Holy that every 4th or 5th vehicle was a Subaru, all rust free, ranging from maybe early 80s (? I think) to new ones.
I knew right then and there that if I came back to life as a car dealership franchisee in the PNW, I’d certainly brand my a$$ Subaru.
Your impressions were completely correct.
The dealer where I bought my Forester is a large two-location franchise in north Seattle that I believe is the highest-volume car dealer, of any make, in Washington state. They typically have 200+ Foresters in inventory and turn them over within a few weeks.
Subaru STI
– That wing
Subaru actually sold a wingless STi trim for a year or three back in the previous decade. Even so, it’s usually not difficult to find someone local on a forum to do a trunklid swap.
I also strongly considered an STi as well as a Focus ST3 and Mazdaspeed3. I love a tiny overpowered car but in the end I just couldn’t do it. One part price and the other part is that I feel like I’m too old to drive a car that was made for college kids. Plus probably having every butthead in a lowered rice rocket rev at me would get tiresome. Got an e60 instead and had some butthead in a clapped out new edge Mustang SVT rev at me today on the way to work. Just can’t win.
Also, tried to get the wife to buy a Flex, she just wouldn’t go for it. It is true, men like them (especially the TT AWD) and women (at least in my case) do not.
The Flex is actually car-height, as I re-discovered today at the auto show. You can see over the top, and it’s reasonably easy to see out of.
Basically a minivan that’s not a minivan!
2014 and up Durango
My needs haven’t grown needing one yet. It’s purely a want.
After driving a Durango, Explorer and Traverse back to back the Durango feels like a tank. It’s put together well, rides fairly well, and the 8 speed completed the package. I prefer it over the Grand Cherokee as I would never have the need to use it off pavement other than a gravel road once in a blue moon.
2014 Durango with 8 speed tran, refreshed interior/dash & captains chairs is as good as it gets at any price, in terms of SUVs, full stop.
It is indeed one solid a$$, tank like vehicle, and I managed close to 25mpg (with long stretches of 32mpg on the highway at close to 80mph) with a rental.
Best in class easily.
Channeling our inner Norm are we? 32 mpg in a 5000lb SUV at 80 mph… let me guess, it had the Trifecta tune?
Sat in one today, but would take the GC over it, as the Jeep looks a little more buttoned-down and clean.
Overall, I was impressed by the more recent revisions to the Fiatsler lineup (in particular, the 300, which in this iteration, has good visibility, though not Honda-like; my “dream garage,” with unlimited space and finances, would have a 300 Hellcat variant with interior trimmings from a Bentley or Roller, along with transplanted engine–a true sleeper), but you can tell that some things like the T&C are a bit long in the tooth, and falling to the back of the pack in terms of materials and “touchy-feely” bits.
Tesla P85D. From my home in Boston to my parents home in VT is 258 miles. If only the range was 300 miles.
If only I had 130 grand to buy a car.
>> Tesla P85D. From my home in Boston to my parents home in VT is 258 miles.
Just hit the new SuperCharger at the Hooksett rest area. CHAdeMO chargers in Barre and Burlington if you get the adapter.
The Lincoln Town Car.
I really did try, but while I can appreciate the robustness, it’s stupidly cramped for it’s size; I had to lean the seat back quite a bit to even drive in it.
Well of course you did, Lurch.
The miracle of Panther packaging strikes again.
psar, the Town Car was all about image. Especially in the real estate business. An agent driving a Town Car showing clients properties just oozed success and projected the right image.
These days, real estate agents who want to project a successful image drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Land Rover, Cadillac Escalade or a Toyota Sequoia.
My agent had an Avalon. It told me she was a practical lady.
Last agent I dealt with had a clean but decade old Lexused up Land Cruiser. I remember more the heels she wore. Couldn’t step into the back yard of a property without her stiletto getting stuck.
We talking decade old in like 02, so it was an LX450? Don’t see those much.
She sounds impractical and flashy!
Leopard print stilettos and miniskirts…
If she was over 30 and the year was not 1992, she was trying too hard.
It was 2006, she was a MILF, and Middle Eastern by ancestry.
Last time I used an agent (which dates me) she was driving an early eighties, almost new, olds diesel wagon. I absolutely loved the car but knew even then that I didn’t want the repair bills.
Those Olds 350 diesel wagons were BIG in California around 1978/1979. The wife of my mom’s brother had one. A blue one with vinyl fake wood applique on the s!des, and a rear door that opened as a tail gate or a fifth door.
And she owned several White Front stores, at that time.
A long, long time ago…… in a universe far, far away…….
CoreyDL, and if you bought from her, she laughed all the way to the bank.
Rule of thumb around the real estate office, “See what your potential client drives up in, then match accordingly.”
Like when the buyer drives up in a Camry, show them the property using the Avalon, Suburban or Tahoe.
If the buyer drives up in an Acura, Audi, BMW, etc, show them the property in the Town Car, Sequoia, Escalade.
What did you drive up in to meet your agent? It’s a game and the buyers are at the mercy of the real estate business. The real estate agent is always in it for the money and works for the seller.
I, good sir, pulled up in a GS430.
I’m 99% sure the Avalon was her only car.
You’re probably right. If she was a sales person, it may have been her only vehicle.
My wife’s dad kept several vehicles at the office, mostly to look like they were always busy, but also to match the show-vehicle to the buyer.
Many buyers were from out of town, like successful business people driving up from West TX to buy some NM mountain property that they could use to bring their week-end honey to for wild abandon. Sometimes Japanese buyers came for lake-front property.
The local buyers used to drive up in all sorts of vehicles and for them the sales staff used the company’s vehicles, like the 4wd Suburban to show lake-front properties off unpaved roads, etc.
My wife’s Town Car was her daily driver and served her well until we bought her the 2008 Highlander, in vogue at the time as the show vehicle of choice, then the 2012 Grand Cherokee. Agents and brokers need to show that they are up to date and in tune with the times.
Since then the business bought her a 2015 Sequoia, but they are in the process of divesting themselves from several rentals as they hope to dissolve the business by this year’s end, and hope to live off the remaining rental res!duals.
“The real estate agent is always in it for the money and works for the seller.”
I’m with you on whores for money, but the buyer’s agent works for the seller’s interest?
Here we are again 28, and your subliminal desires for whores! As wife, as agent, etc.
28, you are right. If a buyer has a buyer’s-agent representing them, then that agent works for the buyer, and the transactions are handled between the buyer’s-agent and the real estate agent selling the property.
But we have never seen that type of transaction.
And since the buying/selling/management part of the business was sold in 2011, all we can do according to the non-compete clause is to sell the business-owned rental properties or buy properties for sole business/rental use.
IOW, we can’t be players any more because that would constitute competition to other real estate businesses.
Hopefully, by the end of 2015, we can dissolve the business. We are now doing Quit-Claims to several properties that family members live in. Next there will be sales of excess rental properties as we wind down.
The real estate agent is always in it for the money and works for t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶l̶l̶e̶r̶ themselves in my experience.
My agent when I bought and then sold my house in DC had a full-size Range Rover (yep, an Autobiography). Then again, he was a baller agent well known throughout my professional community for being tough as nails — the sort of guy who does 100% of his business on referrals.
My agent in Seattle has a last-gen GS350. She’s an affluent but practical mom. Lives in my neighborhood (although her house is a lot nicer than mine).
Neither of them were going to change their vehicle based on the client they’re serving.
“Neither of them were going to change their vehicle based on the client they’re serving.”
They already projected the image of success to their range of buyers.
But for the lower income crowd, like young sergeants in the military who show up at the front door of the business hoping to buy a modest home in their price range for the duration of their tour, an agent should project a more down to earth image.
The name of the game is to make a sale and you don’t want to turn off the potential buyers by making the wrong impression, or an impression that puts the sales person above or below the station in life of the buyer.
Perception matters.
How true. When I went to buy my first house 18 years ago, the agent was a trailing edge MILF who drove a Mercedes 500SL and wore a fur and had a huge diamond ring. Obviously a bored housewife of a successful man living in Lloyd Harbor, she was a rather bad agent. But times were good back then. Having grown up as a kid in her neighborhood, I just chuckled to myself and found a more motivated agent.
Last agent I met with had a Q7. It was several years older than mine, but seeing her roll up in it was a good sign.
“My wife’s dad kept several vehicles at the office, mostly to look like they were always busy, but also to match the show-vehicle to the buyer.”
In my opinion and experience, sales people always have a wildly inflated idea of how much a customer notices their image, car, clothes, or contribution to the deal. There are exceptions, but in general most people don’t know a Benz from a Buick unless they’re standing behind it reading the badge, and they rarely bother to do that. You have to go to a pretty far extreme of either ostentation of sh!tbox before the average person notices your car, and even then it’s usually a quick passing “huh” not a lasting decision on their business with you.
For the record, my most recent realtors, including the one I’m working with now, drove a late-model Ford Taurus and a 1G Acura MDX. I did business with both based on the suggestion of people I trust.
S2k Chris, image matters. They teach this in courses at the University when pursuing degrees leading to sales-oriented professions.
I saw a movie once about why one guy drove a BMW and his colleague a Hyundai Accent. It was called Common Greens, or Green Commons or something like that, but the dialog was hilarious. The bottom line was that nobody took the guy driving the Accent seriously.
But in real life, sales staff have to adjust their approach to the potential client.
“image matters” people are why I hate being an engineer.
DATA MATTERS!
“S2k Chris, image matters. They teach this in courses at the University when pursuing degrees leading to sales-oriented professions.”
You mean sales people tell other wannabe sales people how important it is to look like a successful sales guy? No! (shocked face)
Image matters only to the extent you deviate from people’s expectation, and it’s far, far less granular in 99.9% of the population than most expect. Want to know what people expect their realtor to drive? Something with 4 doors (SUV, Minivan, sedan, wagon) between about $20k and about $60k, less than about 10 years old, and in good repair. That’s about it. Almost no one is putting more thought into it than that, and if they are, they’re an outlier that you shouldn’t base your strategy on anyways.
S2k Chris, no , not other sales people. But as part of a curriculum presentation and perception are often the part of studies, taught by members of the academic staff, many who have no real-life sales experience themselves.
No doubt in different parts of the country real estate agents are accepted in blue jeans drving some ratty old junker, as long as it has four doors and cost in the $20K-$60K range. If it works for them? Cool!
My youngest sister sells in West Palm, Fla. My other sister sells in the Seattle, Olalla, Kent Desmoines, WA area. My sisters in law sell in WY, CO and ID. They all dress and drive whatever gives the best impression, aka the perception of success.
319583076, the only data that matters is the kaaaa—ccccching in the bank.
” S2k Chris, no , not other sales people. But as part of a curriculum presentation and perception are often the part of studies, taught by members of the academic staff, many who have no real-life sales experience themselves.”
Many have NO real-life sales experience, but many do. Again, does image matter? Yes. Does it matter to the degree you assert? Absolutely not.
“No doubt in different parts of the country real estate agents are accepted in blue jeans drving some ratty old junker, as long as it has four doors and cost in the $20K-$60K range. If it works for them? Cool!”
Are you “special”? What sort of “ratty old junker” do you know of that costs $20k-60k? Let me say it more specifically, no one is going to care if their RE agent drives a newish Accord or Lexus or Tahoe or Grand Cherokee or Mercedes or Mercury. They’re all the same to most people. “ratty old clunker” is clearly not.
“My youngest sister sells in West Palm, Fla. My other sister sells in the Seattle, Olalla, Kent Desmoines, WA area. My sisters in law sell in WY, CO and ID. They all dress and drive whatever gives the best impression, aka the perception of success.”
That’s nice. I don’t really care about their resume, I’m telling you that they may think their car is the key to their success, but that doesn’t make them right. I guarantee if they sell 100 houses driving an E-Class, they’d sell the same 100 houses driving a clean, late-model Malibu. People just don’t care that much.
S2k Chris, where do you live? Are you in the bid’ness?
Maybe in your area things are different. This family has been in the real estate business since the early 1950s and I have never seen any of their competition not meet those same standards that this business adheres to.
Maybe the clientele in your area is less demanding. In the areas where we do business, listed above, presentation, appearance and perception matter.
A lot!
“S2k Chris, where do you live? Are you in the bid’ness?
Maybe in your area things are different. This family has been in the real estate business since the early 1950s and I have never seen any of their competition not meet those same standards that this business adheres to.
Maybe the clientele in your area is less demanding. In the areas where we do business, listed above, presentation, appearance and perception matter.
A lot!”
Chicagoland, by way of Connecticut. Not exactly backwoods hicksville.
I think it was this site’s own Jack Baruth who quoted his dad as saying “no one is thinking about you as much as you are thinking about you.” That’s the principle at play here.
S2k Chris, thanks. You may be right about Baruth’s principle because I don’t know anyone with low self-esteem who is successful. In order to be successful in life you have to think about yourself more than others do.
I’m not familiar with Chicagoland except for what was then called the Sears tower and the Hines VA facility. And the wife has family in CT but they are potato farmers, not in the real estate business.
No doubt you may very well be right, from your perspective.
Jack’s quote is…
“No one is thinking about you as much as you think they are”
Having bought and sold 10 houses in my life I’m going to be truthful when I tell you I don’t remember what any of my agents drove, it was that unimportant to me
In the Seattle area market a Realtor wearing Jeans and a nice shirt is certainly accepted by a large portion of the clientele. There are lots of software engineers for whom that is their normal business attire.
I do agree that you do need to match your clientele to a certain extent. If you are catering to those in the very high end showing up for a listing appointment in a 10 year old Camry, jeans and a polo shirt probably isn’t going to get you the listing. On the other hand showing up for a first time buyer’s consultation in very expensive car with a fancy designer suit or with a handbag that costs several hundred buyers isn’t going to get you the client either. For the mid range of first time buyer in Seattle that Ford/Honda/Toyota/Subaru and nice but not expensive clothing will get you the customer provided you live up to the more important aspect of knowing the business.
In my office that usually ranks among the top in the Seattle market there are a few Lexus in the parking lot on team meeting days but there is a healthy dose of mainstream cars and SUV/CUVs. Not overly fancy but not beaters, though I have shown up in a CVPI, though with a client I use my not brand new SUV. I’d certainly drive a Flex for business use though.
That it be new was not specified. A completely restored Jaguar Mark 2 2.4 steering wheel on the left. Essentially, the car that “Morse” drove.
Miata – I’ve already got a convertible and I only need one toy at a time.
Tahoe/Suburban – they represent the best GM has to offer in build quality and power train, but unless I suddenly buy a boat or a 25 ft travel trailer I don’t see one in my future.
Agree on the Miata. It’s the Enthusiast’s Darling, but I have no desire whatsoever to own one. I’m not gonna rip on it, it’s a very nice car, but just not for me.
Jeep Wrangler. Safety and road/wind noise always seem to just barely override the fun factor for me.
The Mitsubishi Outlander Sport ticks all the right boxes for me. Good size, good MPG, good price, available manual transmission.
EXCEPT… it’s a *Mitsubishi*!
Probably a a pickup truck that stickers for 60K+. If I’m going to drop that kind of coin on a vehicle, it’ll be on something retardedly fast and fun to drive.
I’ve had (have) two of the best cars no one wants: the Honda Crosstour and the current Dodge Dart.
The Crosstour is a genuinely fantastic vehicle until you have to look at it.
I like the exterior, honestly.
I didn’t like the rear visibility (that bar! the hell?), though that was minor, because rear camera.
The electonics/nav/UX was so bad it got crossed off the list for consideration before the test drive was done.
(I mean, I was *shocked* at how bad the UX aspect was, even compared to the mediocre Toyota system in the Camry.)
That’s because Honda was trying to put the latest stuff out of the 9th-Gen Accord into the 8th-Gen Accord dash.
Sat in one at the auto show today. I’m with you–it doesn’t work!
The Camry interior is now up to par with, or barely nosing-out, the 6, based on my observations.
I can actually sit behind myself in a Malibu, at least for short stretches. (Though it seemed that the Regal a few stands over was of a touch higher quality even in the common GM switchgear. Sloan-ism reigns once again? Same with the Cruze vs. Verano.)
The Fusion is at about the same level, but that interior and center-stack (and “Ego-Boost) — YUCK! (And again, I’d die of embarrassment were my passengers to hear any of the wimpy warnings in a Ford for lights, belts, keys).
Winner by a nose — the Accord! (Despite my confessed fanboi-ism and avatar!) I await the MMC next year with reservations, since Honda always removes something to improve other things. (The glovebox light in the Accords, for example.)
I’m glad I’m not the only one that finds almost every non-engine noise a modern Ford makes ridiculous.
I would literally find someone to program an information display along with a “bong-bong” sound, if I had to have a Ford in my long-term possession for any reason. IMHO, the three-tone warning for headlights is particularly hideous!
Why is the Dart a best car, and what is the judgment level we’re talking here?
I’m not knocking the Dart, but I also wonder why it is the best car.
Pretty much every review, except the ones here, have said “THE DART IS AWFUL!”
I’d suggest the Dart is cheaper because of the current Dodge Fiat brand reputation and rather unknown reliability. It’s a bigger risk (even if equal driving) than the Mazda.
Omer333, what’s most important is that the Dart works for you.
A friend of mine years back bought a Mercedes E350 4-matic because it was such a fabulous car, supposedly. All the write ups said so.
It was awful! I took him to the M-B dealership in El Paso, TX, several times when he had to go in for one thing or another.
He kept that Benz one year, then traded it for a Lexus LS460. Happy camper ever since. Still has the LS. Never been back to the dealership since he took it home.
For what you would spend on a Mazda3 S Touring, just to get the SkyActiv 2.5, you’ll spend around $25-$27k. Depending on transmission.
You can get into a Dart SXT with the same features, engine and transmission for substantially less money, especially if you’re dealing with a dealership that’s loading up the car with rebates and incentives.
I’ve driven both cars, there’s no real difference. I went with my Dart, because C.R.E.A.M. and daycare ain’t cheap.
Is there a dart wagon/hatch yet?
There’s one with a lift kit in the Jeep showroom.
Outside of enthusiast publications, it’s been ranked highly among compacts.
I don’t listen to Jalopnik or Consumer Reports, but I do remember True Delta liked it as well.
Dodge Viper (sorry Jack). I’m sure they are brilliant cars, fantastic on a race track, not to be compared dollar for dollar, etc.
Still wouldn’t. Simultaneously combines every “penis as car” joke with every “trying too hard for attention” meme.
I lost half of my respect for the new Viper when I noticed that the rear logo doubles as a brake lamp.
Well you’re 19 years too late on your hate. The 3rd brake lamp/logo was back on the 96 GTS.
A manual brown diesel station wagon.
A reasonably clean ‘box’ B-body Caprice. No not to donk it. Just for commuting and general use. But as others have mentioned, Wednesday’s article comes to mind. I need a 1980s GM sedan as a daily driver like I need a hole in the head.
It’s too bad so many people would apparently forego a model that they like simply because they don’t like some of the other people who own them. They’re really missing out. I wonder how many other things they like they’d give up simply because some doucher also enjoys that thing. It must be hard going through life having everything ruined for them. Or is that what being a hipster is really all about?
Personally, I like to own the sh1t out of whatever I choose to drive. Rednecks, cheapskates, douche bags, lesbians or whatever, I own this today.
Fox body Mustangs were favored by douche-bags in the 90s, like M3s and G35s are popular with them now.
Vanilla Ice himself did have a drop top version.
“Personally, I like to own the sh1t out of whatever I choose to drive. Rednecks, cheapskates, douche bags, lesbians or whatever, I own this today.”
How about a slightly used pink Mary Kay Cosmetics saleslady’s Cadillac?
Every man has his limits
You don’t think I’ve driven pink cars? Ha.
Elvis drove a pink Cadillac and didn’t seem to mind.
Like danio said … good enough for The King.
(I mean, I wouldn’t drive a Cadillac, because it’s a GM product.
But not because it was pink.)
“Elvis drove a pink Cadillac”
It was his mother Gladys’ pink Cadillac, her favorite color, that he bought for her
Elvis’ first pink Cadillac was a ’54, which he used to drive himself and his band around. The car caught fire at some point in ’55, so he bought himself a *second* pink Cadillac, a ’55 Fleetwood Series 60.
He had the first car repainted, and gave that one to his mother. Elvis’ mother never had a driver’s license, so Elvis and the band continued to drive it all over.
Pink Cadillacs were cool enough for The King, and apparently The Boss too. He wrote his own song about how awesome they are.
I stand corrected. Then you should have a pink Cadillac so you and your posse can tool around the hood, which I would pay a nickle to see and record, then post on you*tube ;-)
The next time I get a pink car, I’ll be sure to indulge.
When I see a Flex I just think “This is what Volvo SHOULD be making, boxy well crafted CUV station wagons”, only thing is they’re not nearly as simple to work on as an old Volvo.
The best car that I’d never buy would be a modern Golf GTi, should I get one no matter what I’d just keep thinking “I should’ve gotten Audi variant”.
Oddly enough, the Flex has a few Volvo genes lurking well underneath the skin. The platform is a distant descendant of the first S80’s.
I think its exterior design is more Scandinavian than any current Volvo. The interior design is pretty slick too.
Thats true, another reason why I say that “Its what Volvo should’ve kept making”.
The only issue I have with them is the Duratec that powered a few versions, something as simple as changing the spark plugs shouldn’t require one to take off the intake.
Eh, when spark plug intervals are more miles than I drive in 15 years, I’m not too worried if the procedure to change them is a bit more involved.
Any BMW, Mercedes, or Audi (only pricks buy those).
A Corvette or Mustang GT (only guidos buy those)
A Miata or Audi TT (only queers buy those)
An Accord, Camry or Altima (that just shoes to the world that you’ve given up hope of ever enjoying life again)
A minivan (see above)
A Prius (only liberal freaks buy those)
I guess it’s down to an F150.
F-150? Only poorly equipped guys who are overcompensating buy those. (duck)
Seriously, you can find an image problem with absolutely any vehicle. Let’s go down my whole list of favorite current cars…
Audi S4? Only douchebros and gay gym rats buy those.
Acura TLX? Only suckers too dumb to buy an Accord buy those.
BMW M235i? See Audi S4, with more guidos and less gay gym rats.
Chevy SS? Only old guys with #3 stickers buy those.
Chrysler 300? Ghetto.
Flex? Only henpecked family guys buy those.
Lexus GS450h? Only latte liberal greenie posers buy those.
Mustang GT? Only rednecks with mullets buy those.
VW GTI? Only dub scene kids buy those.
Solution: ignore the image.
Wouldn’t someone have to have purchased the SS for it to have an image problem?
(I jest.
But I’ve NEVER seen one on the road.)
Our neighbors own a Ford Flex, she definitely wears the pants in that family.
Funniest two back to back comments in a long time. Thank you for getting me to spit my scotch all over my Mac.
You Winz the Internetz
So, if you’re a gay, henpecked, ghetto, douchebag, gym rat who’s over compensating what do you drive?
@Lie2me: Mini Cooper S. (I love it)
>So, if you’re a gay, henpecked, ghetto, douchebag, gym rat who’s over compensating what do you drive?<
I'd say Escalade, with a Boxster in the garage. And you'd always be wearing a visor when driving the Boxster.
“And you’d always be wearing a visor when driving the Boxster.”
… and when do I wear my white Oakleys?
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6994/bieberjel.jpg
If you are right, I must be gay AND have given up on life.
My brother-in-law must be gay, too.
Or you could just be insecure, judgmental, simple-minded and wrong (or just dryly sarcastic).
I tend to agree about the BMWs, though, except for a young lady I know who bought one new, and she really isn’t a prick.
either that was tongue in cheek, or I feel for you
He tends to make these sorts of comments whenever he speaks, I think it is not tongue in cheek.
A Ford F150 or Dodge RAM 4×4 truck, mostly because they won’t fit in my narrow driveway without taking out bricks. I’m still pretending I’ll buy an MX-5 when the last kid moves out.
For me it would be a Miata.
Everything about it is what I like in a car:
Small and light
Lineage
Dependable and well made
Top down fun
Great handling
Unfortunately for me I can’t get past the ‘girly’ image and at 6’4″, 250 lbs I would look ultimately ridiculous in one! (Wife agrees)
Maybe you should consider a lightly used Honda S2000?
6’4″ is barely possible in an S2k; 250 pounds is also barely possible in an S2k. Both at the same time, not really feasible.
“Unfortunately for me I can’t get past the ‘girly’ image and at 6’4″, 250 lbs I would look ultimately ridiculous in one! ”
I had a neighbor who was exactly your size who had a Miata, your wife is right, you’d look ridiculous. He looked like a Weeble driving it.
“(Weebles wobble, but they won’t fall down)”
American Dad driving Miata.
Probably any very fast expensive sport car. At some point I’d just buy into a race car team.
Me? Probably a Lexus GS 350 F-Sport. But I won’t buy a sedan ever again, not unless it’s a Bentley Mulsanne or something…
The Ford Flex. I grew up a Ford guy. The cheapened product from the Jacques Nasser era drove me away. I still have a 1991 Mercury Colony Park used to enjoy in the summer and pull a folding camper, though the camper duty now falls to the wife’s 2006 Mazda Tribute. Bought the Tribute new over 9 years ago, now looking to update.
We are looking for a really comfortable long distance traveler that could also tow if necessary (if I am ever allowed to ditch the Colony Park) and haul stuff from the home improvement store while serving as the wife’s daily driver. For me, the Flex hits the nail on the head for every point and need, except that the wife absolutely hates it.
Drove through car lots last weekend. Wife unequivocally turned down the Flex. And between a CX-5 and a lightly used CX-7, she definitely liked the CX-7. To me the Flex is like a Swiss Army knife, but alas, due to its appearance as noted by Derek, we just cannot buy.
So long as I don’t have a garage: Miata.
I don’t trust convertibles just out here, even with a bolt-on hardtop.
I’m genuinely amazed by the number of people who won’t buy a car they like because of image. Why on earth do you give a single molecule of a crap what I think of you? And if you think you’ve got an accurate read on me because of the car I drive, I don’t think we should be friends.
Amen
Suddenly the reason behind the seas of socially acceptable 4door suppositories becomes clear.
Bam. People really are that insecure.
Hyundai Equus—24 to 36 months shy of new.
Anything with less than 3 pedals. Let me list off the cars I’d buy in a heartbeat if not for that: BMW328d wagon; Audi S3; CLA45 AMG; Acura TLX; Cadillac ATS with 3.6L V-6; Porsche GT3; any Ferrari; any Lambo; any Maserati; Nissan GT-R; Jaguar F-type V-8.
Pretty much anything with a Toyota badge. Great transportation appliances that I have absolutely zero interest in spending anymore time in than absolutely necessary. I had a new Avalon this week, it makes a 10yo Buick seem exciting.
Bentley Continental GT. Awesome performance, great build quality, and even cheap for what you are getting on the used market. Still the ride of douche bags everywhere. “The Situation” from Jersey shore and basically every other lamentable celebrity you can name own one.
Ha, I like that term “lamentable celebrity”.
Sadly pushing the oxymoronic boundary these days though.
Bentley, the Kardashian car of choice
The best cars EVER are 90% of all new cars built today…and I wouldn’t buy any of them, at least not for me.
New cars are faster, safer, and more reliable than the Corvettes, Volvos, and Toyotas of yore while costing about the same as all three combined.
Therfore, my wife gets the new stuff to cart the kids around in, while I pay cash for something a decade or more old. And why not, they are mostly built to handle 200k plus miles without much problem thus making available a wealth of older Lexus’s, Acuras, Buicks and Volvos (my favorite older stuff for the daily commute) for pennies on the dollar.
Not buying a “good” new car allows me instead to also own a classic BMW for the weekend, a work truck, 2 boats, and a camper while still having money left over to spare.
I like you, because you get it.
Great reply. The newest car in our motor pool is a 2009, the garage toy. The commuter / weekend project vehicles serve us well.
After buying a couple of used vehicles and finally having success – I can say I’m just not interested that much in taking the depreciation beating. It would take a BIG STICK of dynamite to go back to having a loan or lease payment on a car. (the Chevy Bolt might do it)
Challenger. A perfectly good, attractive car that would make me look like a guy trying too hard to be some kind of Ed Hardy wearing middle-age d-bag trying to recreate a youth he never had. For some reason the Mustng gives off none of this vibe.
Anything built on a Panther platform. I just don’t care for any of them except the old school Continental one or the police brick Vic with the 351 Windsor and both of those are just too old to drive every day but it would work well for me. Probably the Avalon and Mazda 6 would be the others because I can’t get my wife to like them over any CUV.
I would like to own a 911 Convertible but I am terrified of the horror stories about reliability. My last car buy came down to the 911 or Landcruiser (I know I know). I picked the Cruiser because the chances of it failing me versus even the best from Germany is slim. Still whenever I see one on the road my heart warms.
Hyundai Genesis – I’ve built one online many times and love the specs – on paper. I just cant’ get over the Hyundai logo. The K900 and the Equus also fall in this category.
Toyota Camry – great car for what it is, but it is so painfully booooooooooring and screams, “I don’t care about driving at all, this is my appliance.”
Lexus ES (see Toyota Camry)
Honda Odyssey – great minivan but there is just something weird to me in the lines I can’t get over.
FR-S – my criticism aside on the Soviet grade interior and wonky torque curve, a wag happy 2+2 with good balance and manual is very appealing to me. Sorry Scion drivers, dead brand walking and the mark of a douche.
BMW anything – where I live, EVERYONE drives one. I have, with two notable exceptions always gravitated toward less popular vehicles. Case in point, I would seriously consider a Hyundai Azera – under appreciated car, not a price point where you go, “you spent what on a Hyundai,” and I find it stunning – especially in white.
Lexus RX (see BMW – if you don’t drive a 3 Series in Puget Sound, you’re driving a Lexus RX)
Telsa Model S (see Lexus RX above)
Acura anything – OK, well, with the beaks finally going away there was a period I wouldn’t buy one just on looks. Three times in my life in the buying decision Acura has come in second place. CL, TL, and MDX, in that order. They always just feel short or didn’t quite have what I was looking for. I’m a huge fan of the RDX and MDX but – there is just something…
Nissan anything – Nissan for me is the brand that when I talk about C-segment cars someone has to say, “what about the Sentra,” and I’m like oh ya, Nissan has that. Or in the D-segment someone has to go, “what about the Altima,” and I’m like oh ya, Nissan has that. Or the midsize CUV/SUV and someone goes, “what about the Murano,” and I’m like oh ya, Nissan makes that…
Chevrolet SS – great car on paper – have a G8 GT in my garage, have serious Zeta platform love. Can’t get over the boring wrapper and for that kind of money, the Chevy bowtie attached to a no-name sedan. I’d plunk $50K down on a murdered out Silverado, a Tahoe, and more for a C7, but I just can’t do $48K for a SS (and although a great car why GM, WHY are you soldiering on with the LS3)
Unless it’s used, a nicely-equipped Tahoe is easily going to be in the $55K-$65K range.
Commas are your friends.
Almost have to watch your back getting in one of the Toyobaru twins, as I found out at the auto show today — almost threw it out!
Entering the new ‘Vette is effortless in comparison!
Everything by BMW – they seem like nice enough cars, except that I don’t want to be “that guy”. Also, for what they charge, they need to be within spitting distance of Toyota’s reliability in order for it to be worthy of the price premium. It’s extra annoying since I hang out with a “successful” crowd with a few BMW drivers in it, and i do like comfy interiors… But at least two of them have subtly inquired why I haven’t joined the club: it’s because my 10.5 year old Sienna and my 10.5 year old Prius are just better cars for what I’m trying to achieve in life. Also, I don’t want to pay extra for parts, service, or an image that I don’t want.
Volkswagen: I owned one once, and I’d love to be a fanboy. But, I got burned badly and, while I’m easily rich enough to lease a BMW, I’m not rich enough to maintain a VW as long as I would intend to own it.
Jeep Wrangler: I really like it, but I have absolutely no use for one. I also prize efficiency and technology, which are pretty antithetical to what the Wrangler stands for. But a hackable convertible which can travel the back country has in irresistible appeal for when my sons are old enough to enjoy it, and also it’s good to learn to drive in something primitive. But maybe a Wrangler, or a Renegade with a removable roof, will be my mid life crisis toy car.
A BMW M3.
Fantastic car all around in regards to performance, but…I’m just not that kind of guy.
I wouldn’t buy a Subaru STi with a huge dumb wing either. I’m sure a regular WRX guy wouldn’t mind getting the STi tailgate and body kit though.
I have a ’15 WRX and love it. Planning on a new STI when…if…they drop in the new engine. And have already talked to the local dealer about ordering without the wing, he said it’s possible, but will take a while to get, I’m OK with that.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
400 hp, AWD, and completely ridiculous.
It would be a hoot to drive around for a while, but not a car that I would actually be dumb enough to buy – at any price.
It is insanely overpriced (even without the customary even more insanely priced options list), especially compared to a huge list of other cars that will do what it does at a fraction of the price, and not break down in the process.
It is insanely expensive to service, and oh, it will need service. As a late model Porsche – it will inevitably break down in spectacular fashion. Parts will cost you both kidneys and be in short supply.
It fails as a sports car, because it’s too tall, too heavy, and has the aerodynamics of a minivan.
It utterly fails as a truck. Those 21″ wheels are useless off road. It barely has enough ground clearance to cope. It has essentially the same amount of cargo room as a Golf. It can supposedly tow about 5000 pounds, but I’m betting they forgot to mention the “for 30 seconds before the expensive transmission vaporizes” clause.
It is a gold-plated disaster, but for some reason I fancy it.
The Dodge Viper is Carrie Underwood, kicking up her heels and making noise.
The Aston Vantage is Ellie Goulding, growl-whispering rock candy into my ear.
The SLS AMG is Taylor Swift, staring me down with those piercing blue eyes.
The Porsche Macan Turbo is Lady Gaga, with a deranged look on her face, sauntering up to me in her meat dress.
I know who I’d have the most fun with that hypothetical night, and it ain’t the first three. I also know its the same person I ain’t ever gonna introduce to mom and dad.
It’s gotta be the current Nissan Maxima. Tried several times to like it when I was ready to buy. I wanted to love it but it felt flat and boring. Bought a VW CC instead
Comments seem to divide into a)wouldn’t be comfortable being seen in it and b)too expensive upfront or in maintenance/repairs or don’t like the looks.
I can understand the latter – your taste is yours and money is money, but the former is sad. F’em if they disapprove of your choice. I know a couple of Corvette owners – neither fit the stereotypes mentioned. And I have been driving Porkers for 20 years. I’ve never done the DE thing – too busy – so just like almost everyone else here, I’m not using my car to anywhere near full potential any more than you are yours. But there is some fun in speeding up in corners and entrance ramps. Plus I wanted to experience a mid-engine car. Always Guards Red, stopped once in 100k miles, admonished and returned to the herd, so not buying the red car cop magnet thing.
Get what you want if you can swing it.
spam bot didn’t like my choice nor did it like my 2nd….
Lets try this again:
The best car I’d NEVER buy?
If it were my own money I’d say a GT350 Mustang (new or old).
But if I won a lottery or someone was going to foot the bill I’d get a Bugatti Veyron Super Sport. Something about owning the fastest car is appealing.
But if “car’ is just slang for motor-vehicle I’d say F150 Raptor but then again, I’d own one so?
Probably a Power Wagon. I’d never own one due to poor capacity and FCA durability/quality.
3rd time lucky?
The Flex looks like a giant 2005 Scion xB. Which is a car I would (and did) buy.
I have very specific standards and biases.
I won’t buy another American car. I’ve never had one that wasn’t crap.
I won’t buy a European car. They’re too expensive and cost too much to maintain, or they’re crap. Or both.
No sedans, coupes, or station wagons that put my eyes at the same height as pedestrians’ navels, that I have to fall down in order to get into or use a jack to get out of.
Nothing with more than a 38-foot turning circle. Nothing that can’t get at least 35mpg on a trip. Nothing with more than four cylinders. Nothing that won’t run well on 87 octane.
Nothing with a trunk. Nothing with a touch-screen (this one’s getting harder).
The last car we bought was a 2015 Forester. Before that was the xB. I would look at a Fit. I like the idea of the HR-V and its ilk.
So, basically, you’ll buy base models of tiny to small Japanese or Korean CUVs.
Wow – and most gun deaths are suicide…….. it now makes perfect sense to me.
No guns, please. Maybe if it were harder to commit suicide, fewer people would.
@rdclark – your selection process appears to be as effective as a handgun for removing any signs of life ;)
That’s close. I liked the Soul we rented. We briefly considered the Prius V.
I forgot to mention that large windows are mandatory. So no CR-V.
So, what’s the best car you wouldn’t buy, the Flex?
Maybe the CR-V because of the poor rear visibility.
I have trouble with the underlying premise that it’s OK to reject an otherwise acceptible car based on aesthetics. You can’t see the outside of the car when you’re driving it, and once you walk away they don’t have to know it’s yours.
Right now, a 2015 Cadillac CTS. By all accounts it’s a great car, but I don’t trust it long term.
Let me just add that I’d probably never buy anoth Honda, out of the box they’re okay if dull reliable cars, but because they’re so dull people love to mod them, and because their heads are so dull, the mods are often tasteless and executed poorly.
That and on the used market, they generally cost way too much for what you get.
The only thing that makes me never buy the car I think is best is price. I don’t give a F what anybody else thinks, because:
A.Taking that sort of thing seriously is stupid.
B.Nobody actually cares.
C.If you try to be complacent to a bunch of lemmings, you’re just gonna drive another lemming car. Nice Camry pal.
But to answer the question, ELR. I have everything I could ever want in my current fleet. The only thing that’s missing is an electric car that looks rad. My 7 mile commute doesn’t justify it, and neither does my salary.
Mine is a pickup truck, believe it or not.
The AMG 6×6 G Wagen.
It’s the world’s best pickup.
Six diff locks, portal drive, self inflating tyres, luxurious, that is real luxury, not like the Caddy Silverado station wagon things.
You’d have to be a multi millionaire to own one and probably use double the average wage for maintenance, fuel, insurance to drive it.
This was about cars you would NEVER buy.
I really want one, but I would never buy one.
How would I ever be able?
Doesn’t the Australian Military use a 6×6 Mercedes variant?
FR-S/BR-Z twins. I’m very glad they exist, and I’d love to have something that was basically the configuration of my Porsche 944 with a bit more power and modern safety tech. But they just look too Tokyo Drift for this guy in his late 30s.
Also the Jag F-Type. Great car, beautiful Ian Callum design, and now it’s got a coupe version with manual transmission. I really, really should want this thing, but it somehow fails to stir my blood. A used Aston Martin Vantage is currently cheaper, more fun to drive, and somehow more special.
And as I stated above, even a back with nary a problem is in for a nasty surprise the first time you try to sit down..WAY DOWN..into one!
Despite the raving praise from auto journalists, I would not buy a Porsche Macan because Porsche told me:
1. We’re a boutique brand,
2. You will pay more buying our cars,
3. You will pay more to own our cars (service, etc.),
4. We will not warranty your car for more than 4 years,
5. If you are far away from a dealer, and break down, you’re on your own.
Keep in mind there is a 6+ month wait for a Macan, so their attitude’s understandable.
Yeah, I thought you were supposed to get more when you pay more…
If they’re going to force me to make tradeoffs, my inner engineer gets to make the decision. I’d be cross shopping that thing with Escapes and CRVs – which have similar utility and significant cost advantages.
Unless I missed it, NOBODY said Colorado/Canyon?
That’s because we all bought ours already.
I agree, there is just something about the Colorado that I really like. But I don’t believe I am the intended audience. We’ll see. Maybe in a few months I’ll come-up with an excuse to buy one. Maybe sitting higher off of the ground than I would in my sedan is safer? Or, maybe, the four wheel drive would be useful when I’m occasionally driving on mountain roads (although I’ve never before had trouble whether using a two wheel or four wheel drive on the type of rutted, stone, and dirt mountain roads with which I am familiar because the roads I frequent aren’t really too awful). Or, maybe I can convince my daughter it would be the right vehicle for her and then I could borrow it often (but I doubt it).
Oh no, I absolutely would have no problem to be seen driving a Canyorado. I checked them out at the auto show yesterday, there’s a lot for a former Dakota owner (namely, me) to like…
I’m waiting on the diesel.
Also, I don’t actually need one at the moment, as my minivan is a better fit for my needs. But I owned a Ranger for 8 years and I miss it sometimes — and my Ranger would have been much better with a small diesel.
I’m only about three excuses away from buying one at any given time. Sometimes less.
I’ve got a bunch of them, actually.
Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and/or Lancer (GT or Ralliart). I’d love one, but like someone else further up the board said: Mitsubishi…
Nissan Leaf. Range anxiety. Seriously. Probably the number one reason why I would buy a Chevy Volt long before a Leaf.
Ford Fiesta or Focus ST. I love the idea of this or any other bat-sh!t crazy little hatchback, but most likely any of those would be too small or cramped for me.
Any 4WD “Bro” truck, but the Raptor especially. Oddly I like driving/riding around in them, but the reality is I have no need for something like that. Additionally, I would rather spend the same bucks on a hopped up Chally or Camaro instead.
My gray goatee would grace one of those a lot better than a Raptor…
I also voted Raptor. That truck is awesome, but…
As for the Focus/Fiesta ST, The Focus is fine (I’m a tall guy with “football player” dimensions), but the Fiesta really should have just been a 3-door model like it is overseas. The rear seats in those cars are a joke (even for “normal” sized people) and in the Fiesta ST especially, how often would you have more than 2 people in it?
I think the Fiesta four-door is more ridiculous, much like the Chevy Sonic/Aveo 4-door. It’s obvious that those vehicles were made to be hatches, but… ‘MURRICA
Lexus RX – rationally, I can appreciate why people buy them – decent inside, nice engine, reasonably spacious, and should last damn well near forever (I’ve seen one with about 260k miles I would’ve sworn had half that). But, I don’t want something that tall unless it’s something I’m comfortable getting genuinely dirty, and if I’m getting something that soft, it’s absolutely going to have a brougham roof and 8-track player.
I recognize they don’t even remotely compete, but for similar money, I could get into a V60 T6 AWD.
Any top spec Ford or Lincoln, because and only because of MyFord Touch. I’ve almost exclusively owned Fords and I especially like the MKC, but I just can’t get past MFT and how irritating it was when I was test driving multiple Focuses a couple years ago. Ended up buying a bargain-bucket 2012 Focus S because it was the only one on the lot that didn’t have it. Just awful
Challenger. Maybe saying never is too strong, but buying one is highly unlikely for me. Looks great, good value, and I have a soft spot for highway cruisers, but it’s too damn big for where I live.
E39 M5. I had a 540 that I loved, yet don’t regret giving up on. I’m not sure I am up for the maintenance of even another 540, nevermind an M5. The performance is wasted on me anyway.
This article needs to be titled” What’s the best NEW car you’d never buy.” The equation can change quickly after a couple year’s depreciation.
Snooping around the internet, I see plenty of loaded 2014 Kia Cadenza’s advertised for around $25k. These sticker for over $40k new with the panoramic roof, navi etc. I’d never buy one new, but at close to 1/2 price after less than 2 years, there’s no way it’s not a great buy. I also saw a 2013 Hyundai Veloster Turbo with navi and roof for $13,999 – MSRP $25k new. Now the Veloster is a terrible car, but 200hp with 6 speed stick and the balance of the Hyundai warranty for 1/2 price? I could make a case.
Same for the German cars? Buy new and face epic depreciation? No thanks. 2-3 years old with a certified warranty or CarMax warranty? Sounds like a decent option.
Agreed. I have no hesitation recommending cars that don’t make sense new, as long as it’s less than 5 years old and a fraction of it’s original MSRP. Today’s car should last 12-15 years before they lose patience or confidence in their ride, and buying one for half price or less is a great way of getting the benefit of a newer vehicle without stuffing the coffers of the marketing mavens.
From my earlier comment, I wished the 5 year residuals were put back on more manufacturers’ financial calculators. It’s eye opening to see how much you pay for the new car smell.
Anything that has ever been made by, or ever will be made by, Nissan.
Nissans and their drivers are always driving 20 under the limit, reversing because they missed an offramp, not accelerating on onramps and just generally being in the way.
It’s completely irrational, I know.
Not in my AO Perc, Nissan drivers tend to be more aggressive. When I’m picking a lane as I approach the stop light I’ll stack in behind a Nissan as its a safe bet they wont waste time pulling away from the light.
Camcord owners on the other hand tend to be the conservative drivers around my area.
Yeah that describes Toyota drivers in my area, not Nissan drivers. I’m likely the only exception to that rule. Sometimes I think I’m the only person this side of an auto-journo test that knows a V6 Highlander can hit 100 mph with great ease.
That sort of described me when I first got my Leaf, except I was either at the speed limit or 5 under – which is probably 20 under the de-facto limit. Now that I have “range confidence”, that ugly fish face is making more appearances in the rear view mirrors of drivers in the left lane.
Excluding the usual suspects: exotics, crossovers (not made by Volvo), vehicles with even numbers of doors…
my pick is the Ford F-Series Raptor.
Compare it to any attempt Ford made to do the same thing, like the F-150 Lightning, and everything else looks low rent.
Simply one of the coolest vehicles built for a singular purpose ever. The Ford Focus RS of pickup trucks. The new one looks to be even more awesome. Yet another product from “The New Ford” that I just adore on general principle.
Alas, as it is a pickup truck you’ll likely see me in one of those right before the apocalypse happens.
Volkswagen GTI. Because of the Volkswagen reputation for reliability and crappy dealer network.
Tesla Model S
Love the car, love the company, love driving an EV, but I just could not bear to drive such an expensive vehicle.
Saab convertible. I still hanker for a late 90’s mid-00’s one. Even tough they are a droptop they are easy to live with year round. Good fuel economy with zippy turbo power, grippy traction, seats 4 in comfort, usable trunk. What makes me apprehensive is the reliability or the lack there of. If only Subaru made something like it.
GTI, because I’m irrationally unforgiving about my wife’s Passat.
I usually keep an open mind about this stuff. Call me an optimist, but I’d love to own an old Citroën someday, repairability be damned. That said…
The B5 Passat wagon, W8 6mt. It’s super rare and ticks all the right buttons or whatever. But if I’m going to dive into big-VW-engine repair hell, I’m going to do it right: in a Phaeton.
Mazda MX-5: everyone loves them but I will never own a convertible made after 1980.