This is the kind of video that causes sleeplessness in back-road thrashers. An Ariel Atom chases a sportbike down a California two-lane, only to find a stopped car around a blind corner. At first glance it seems to be a stunning indictment of reckless vehicle operation, but there might be more to the story.
The low perspective — a camera mount on top of an Atom’s sidepods is about as high as the headlight on a Camry — and wide frame make the video feel fast, but how fast, exactly, are these drivers going? A YouTube video commenter took the time to measure speed and distance with a known 100-meter distance at the ten-second mark and came up with a guesstimate of…
40mph.
In a 35mph zone.
That relatively low estimate is backed up, in my opinion, by the relatively tame lean angles the sportbiker’s demonstrating and the lack of suspension compression as the Atom negotiates the corners. The speed limit on a road like this in California is unlikely to be any lower than 35mph and I’ve seen Ohio roads just like this where the limit is 55, as with the Hocking Hills test loop used by Road&Track for the Performance Car Of The Year test. So this might not be as reckless as it appears.
On the other hand… you’re always responsible for maintaining assured clear distance. If you can’t see around a corner, that might be a good reason not to do the speed limit, or slightly over the speed limit, around it, right?
I don’t see any reason stop in the middle of the road. I’ve always wondered when I see someone broken down or stopped in a really stupid place what exactly were they thinking?
I’ve had plenty of crummy cars that have broken down at inopportune moments, but I’ve never had one die without some form of warning that prevented me from getting out of the travel lane (well except for a broken timing belt on a Sunbird, but I was able to coast to the shoulder). I don’t see any good reason to come to a halt in the path of traffic and if it were caused by a breakdown, get your ass out of the car and push it to the side! Unless you’re disabled or really old, there really aren’t many excuses to endanger one’s self and others by sitting in the middle.
Maybe those guys were going too fast, but sitting dead on a blind curve would easily surprise someone who might have reached down to change the station. At least these guys didn’t hit the fool.
“I don’t see any reason stop in the middle of the road. I’ve always wondered when I see someone broken down or stopped in a really stupid place what exactly were they thinking?”
They’re not thinking – they’re self-absorbed and they don’t care about anyone else.
This sort of behavior is legion: people stop to talk in the middle of hallways, people stop to orient themselves at the top or bottom of stairs, or just inside/outside of a doorway.
On my drive home last night, a mature (~45 years old), adult woman was jaywalking across the street with her head buried in her phone. I had green lights through the next two intersections and was travelling about 30 mph. I tapped my horn a couple of times – she stopped in the middle of the street, looked up, then screamed, “SLOW DOWN!” To which I replied, “Get outta the street!”
This happens to me at least once a week. The pedestrians aren’t as bad as the motorists who stop in the middle of the street because they’ve missed a turn and since that turn lane is 3 cars deep, they decide to wait it out in the travel lane, sometimes they use their indicator. Invariably, they will yell or flip off anyone calling them out on their behavior.
Conclusion – most people are massively self-absorbed. The rules apply to you, never to them. If you have the temerity to point out that they are not following the rules, or perhaps endangering themselves or others, expect their scorn and derision.
Hell, people stop halfway out of Wal-Mart, oblivious to the dozen customers right behind them that trip over each other as the person in front stops short. Amazing lack of awareness of their surroundings.
I see it all the time on the road, people stopping in weird places. What was so important that you had to stop RIGHT THERE?
My favorite is when you’re in Home Depot pushing a flat cart loaded with sacks of cement or something such that it took a mighty shove to get rolling, and some dipsh!t [or their unsupervised kid] wanders out and then stands in your way, expecting that the imaginary power brakes will stop on a dime.
Like not following speed limits in residential areas. The temerity…
Are you talking to me? This isn’t a residential area – it is the heart of downtown Omaha. Thanks for playing, Jimal.
The video linked above is very much not in Omaha. Try to keep up.
The residential discussion is below. There are driveways off of a two-lane and four-lane highway on my commute, the posted speed limit is 60 mph.
Houses and driveways near a roadway do not equate to residential area. You’re doing a fabulous job yourself, mate.
The speed limit on the road in the above video is 30 MPH. Try again.
“The speed limit on the road in the above video is 30 MPH. Try again.”
— So? That still doesn’t make it a “residential street”. As he said, the argument about whether or not it’s a “residential street” is below.
So if it’s a “highway”, people can’t have a residence there? I’d hope they don’t have to back out of their driveway on to a blind curve (travel lane) though, nor have a right to do so.
But a curve marked 30 MPH is an warning, not a limit. It’s about right for a 30′ motorhome, but a Corvette can do at 60 mph without even squealing a tire.
“So if it’s a “highway”, people can’t have a residence there?”
Did I say that?
“This sort of behavior is legion: people stop to talk in the middle of”….the road even.
A few years ago in the mountains of Utah, two imbeciles stopped at the apex of a blind corner, one in each lane – going different directions to say Hi.
Two guys on cruisers came around the corner at speed and they had NO WHERE to go. One died and the other broke, severely.
“This sort of behavior is legion: people stop to talk in the middle of hallways…”
Multi-use paths are the same way. Pedestrians meandering about 3-4 abreast, taking up the entire width. When I’m riding by bicycle and come up on such a group from behind, it is my guilty pleasure to hear their startled reactions when I to shoot the gap between them.
“adult woman was jaywalking across the street with her head buried”
Sounds like you live in Pensacola, FL, where it seems every week a pedestrian finds a dark, busy stretch of road to get killed jaywalking.
I hate this pedestrian behavior just as much as anyone, but your actions give the rest of us cyclists a bad name.
Taking pictures off of the hillside at the valley below. Happens all the time here. Our flat land relatives were hypnotized by a view off of the 1500 ft high mtn where we lived overlooking a valley when I was a kid growing up.
I always worried they’d forget to keep the car on the pavement.
Huh?
“At least these guys didn’t hit the fool.”
Yes they did. Didn’t you see the camera judder, nor hear the sound of the impact, as the Ariel’s front left corner hits the BMW’s rear right?
[Edit:] Hmm, this being an Atom, there isn’t really any front corners on it. I don’t think it could be the wheel, since that would presumably throw him a lot more off-track. But something on the left side.
There’s just no excuse for stopping dead in the road. Had there been an accident, the gawping E39 driver would’ve been solely the cause. Speed may have been an exacerbating factor, but not driver inattention by any means, as the reaction times demonstrate. Don’t take my word for it: The Court of Quebec sent a girl to prison for coming to a stop on the roadway to assist stranded ducks, after a motorcyclist and his passenger were killed plowing into the back of her vehicle in foggy/rainy/dark conditions.
The threshold for obtaining a license to drive is too low, period.
“The threshold for obtaining a license to drive is too low, period.”
This. A thousand times.
One of the contestants on “Canada’s Worst Driver” had this to say a few years ago, which is pretty indicative of the public at large, I think:
“What do you mean ‘driving is a privilege?’ That doesn’t make sense. I have to drive, it’s my right, not a privilege. That’s just stupid. It’s a right.”
We’re not teaching people to drive properly, keep up with their driving, eliminate bad habits, etc. We’re handing out licenses to people who just can’t do it, and relying on the increasingly safe, but not driver-oriented vehicles to keep them alive.
Says the cynic in me.
Perhaps the short story, “Test” by Theodore Thomas would be a realistic method by which new drivers should be licensed. It might get some of these less reliable drivers off the road. Hmmm?
EXCELLENT story! It reminds me of a discussion I had w/ a friend of mine on autonomous cars. I opinioned that someday, it could possibly become a crime to drive w/o assistance! He was in doubt, but I pointed out the fact that whatever the masses “perceive” to be the best thing, the politicians will invariably make it so; safety concerns, blah, blah, etc! :-)
The story reminds me of the young kid that just crashed a Factory 5 cobra. He survived but his passenger did not. The car burned to the ground and tried to bribe the officer on scene and then proceeded to gripe about what to do now since that car was his life. Nothing from him about the girl that just died because of him.
The practical problem is that we live in a democracy. There is a substantial amount of people either drive poorly, or have a fear that they may be seen as such. The end result is that legislators won’t tighten up the laws, because they don’t want to instill fear into their voter base.
boozysmurf – I do agree but politicians care about getting elected and too many people feel driving is a right not a privilege.
Years ago I read a statistic that indicated 33% of drivers should NOT have a drivers licence.
Drive down the road and count 1…2….3…….1…..2……3
Pretty sobering stuff to consider.
I’m not sure that raising the standards of getting a license would do much if anything. They tried this in Ontario with the graduated system which added plenty of complexity and cost, but yielded little benefit except a weak attempt at pacifying the finger pointing “good” drivers who insist that everyone else is the problem. They’re still pointing.
The issue is that people get sloppy because of apathy toward driving in general. Anyone can train up to pass a standardized road test, which in my opinion are good enough to see that a person possesses the skill to operate a vehicle on that day. Whether they retain or use the skill down the road is the question.
No, things like yearly testing or government run performance driving schools are not practical ideas. Individuals practicing defensive driving rather than insisting everyone else change is.
Meanwhile the policeman driving 120 km/hr who killed a 5-year old in a nearby 50 km/hr zone gets away scot-free. The duck incident happened near Candiac, Quebec in the left lane of the A30, an autoroute aka motorway or freeway where the legal maximum speed is 90 km/h. Testimony was given in court that the Harley driver may have been following too closely. His speed was estimated to be from 113 km/h to 129 km/h when he applied his brakes, and the collision occurred between 105 km/h and 121 km/h. Other vehicles were able to stop and/or avoid the obstacle. No mention in the news of weather conditions or time of day that I could find, nor of the bikers’ safety gear.
Hum…that pretty much killed my desire to get a motorcycle.
I rode for years. Never a problem. Did witness a head-on collision in the Smokey Mtns that was the sport bike’s fault. Didn’t kill him but it was a 45 min wait for the ambulance. He was white as a ghost and delirious the whole time.
Just because you initially survive doesn’t mean you don’t eventually die though. You can have a head bleed that’ll kill you a couple hours down the line, and even if you have other internal bleeding the adrenaline will keep you alive for the short term. Doesn’t mean that you’ll survive getting to the hospital or survive the surgeries. A lot of the time people in accidents will have really bad pelvic bleeding that kills them unless they can get to the operating room ASAP to have someone temporize the bleeding.
Don’t let it!
After getting involved in motorcycles and owning a few of different genres (classic ‘standard,’ sport touring, dual sport) I now view cars as mostly effective means of transport, the real fun is to be had on two wheels :)
Hat tip to the Atom driver though. My understanding of crashes like this is that people often panic and freeze rather than attempting to avoid the accident. So, good presence of mind to think to head onto the shoulder to avoid the BMW.
You don’t have much choice in an Atom but to try and avoid. Don’t know whether it was smarter or dumber to go right, being so close to what looks like a cliff, but the alternative was to swerve into the other lane and possibly get in a head on collision.
His move to go the opposite route around the obstacle was an intelligent one. He’s seen the bike go one way and honestly can’t know what the bike will do next. He’s also seen that the shoulder is wide enough–if barely–to make the go-around safely (the bike might have lost control on the gravel). Overall, both the biker and the Atom driver proved themselves good drivers, even if the Atom driver did ride closer to the bike than maybe he should. On the straights they might… MIGHT have reached 60mph but they weren’t by any means pushing hard through the corners.
As someone who has put bikes through tiny gaps next to cars, it’s a normal part of riding in Japan, I can tell you there was more than enough room for the bike to pass through on the right. He wouldn’t have even left the pavement.
I’ve actually been in this situation when popping over a hill and finding a truck backing up to make a turn onto another road that he missed just over the crest of the hill. I hit the brakes and slid through on the right, stopping right next to his passenger side window. It can be done.
Watching the video again and noting that the camera was on the far right side of the Atom, both of these guys, since they were more toward the left, had a bit more ability to see through the corner than the video indicates. Given that I think they are both pretty experienced, and again the guy taking his foot off the peg so often makes no sense to me, their slow reaction time tells me they are really going too fast for the road. This didn’t have to be as close as it appears.
foot off the peg could be an “I’m slowing” or “pay attention” signal from the rider. Some track day schools suggest using a foot (usually the left) instead of hands if the rider feels they’ll have more control keeping their hands on the bars.
Vulpine – The bike rider was a squid. You can’t control the bike with your feet off the pegs and they came off a few times.
If they guy was riding “supermoto” than I’d say leg off is okay but he wasn’t.
As pointed out elsewhere, they weren’t going that fast. If I was on the bike I would have had no problems getting around the car. I’d be more worried about the guy in the Atom entering my rectum.
You must never watch MotoGP. Or are you trying to tell Rossi how to ride a bike?
Disclaimer: the guy in the vid is no Rossi.
I thought that move to the right was instinctive and absolutely the right move. He had no time to know if a car was coming on the left – if there had been a car on the left, he would have rammed the stopped car correcting. The shoulder was the right move, although it brought with it the risk of shredding tires in debris.
I would rather be alive and technically wrong than dead and technically right. I remember having to manhandle an Olds 88 when some utility truck driver dropped a bolt of cable the size of a Kia Rio directly in front of me while rounding a semi-blind curve over a large crest as you may find out in New Mexico or Colorado in the mountains. I could still see the other vehicle the entire time; the bolt only just came into view once I had crested the hill.
This looks like Old Topanga Canyon Rd out by Malibu. I’ve driven that road in a rented Taurus at 35mph, which feels like 50mph. I don’t buy your speed assessment with the Atom’s braking distance (what little there was) longer than a cement truck at highway speeds. The fool stopping there was probably just checking out the view.
Love the sense of entitlement there at the end, as if they are racing (and they are doing just that) on a closed course. I wonder how many times the garbage truck that services that house has been hit.
Crabspirits – I do agree that even at lower speeds these guys WERE racing. All of those blind access driveways are a risk.
We have two errors in judgement…….. stopping in the middle of the road and racing on the same road.
Bingo!
Idiot for stopping around a blind corner.
Idiots for treating a windy road with blind corners as a closed course. I don’t care what the speed limit is (which they were exceeding), they were driving too hard, given the visibility.
I live off of a farm-to-market road in the Texas Hill Country. Two lanes, no shoulders, and a series of hills and curves. Speed limit – 55. Usual traffic 60+. Traffic light except at rush hours.
The other day, I topped a hill on a curve, doing 55, to find a woman doing a U-turn halfway down the hill. She was backing and blocking both lanes when I saw her. My Genesis had the brakes on full by the time I could react. Only that and just enough grass by the road at that spot saved me by inches from T-boning her.
I’m a great believer in the automatic emergency braking in the Genesis. Every new car should have this feature.
While the driver of the stopped car created a dangerous situation, the motorcycle rider and the driver of the Ariel Atom were being reckless to exceed their sight-lines. That could have been any number of obstructions in that curve; some of which would not have been avoidable no matter their skill level.
I ride a motorcycle, myself, and I put the burden of blame on myself. I take it as a given that people are going to do incredibly stupid things on the road that could kill me, so I ride accordingly.
Exactly. We easily blame the stopped driver because we see no reason for him to be blocking the road that way, but any solid object would have been as bad or worse. That area could easily have a fallen tree or rock slide blocking both lanes and shoulder. The stopped driver was passively stupid, the others were actively stupid.
Yup. As someone else pointed out above, there are 3 self absorbed drivers in this video clip.
As I’ve found over the years, although a driver stopped in the middle of the road most often is an idiot, every once in a while it means there’s a pedestrian hidden from view in front of him, who is about to step out in front of me if I pass. Which is quite panic inducing if I don’t have time to stop, and can’t NOT pass.
This 100 times.
When riding on the street, particularly unfamiliar roads, forget all about clipping apexes. Instead you should be riding a simulated very late apex so as to maximize sight lines going into any corner. Keeping speeds to reasonable enough levels that leave space for unexpected road conditions go without saying. Residential areas no matter how fun the road may be, are off limits for spirited riding altogether IMO.
Do I always follow what I just said? No. Last summer I was enjoying my new (to me) Bandit 1200S way too much and found myself in a few ‘pucker’ moments that gave me pause. I was way in over my head, riding without that margin of safety that is crucial on the street. I admit my fault and completely assume 100% responsibility for any accidents that would result. Now, one thing I do stick to is following the speed limit in inhabited areas. If I’m an idiot and wreck my bike or kill myself, that’s that. I don’t want any other people or vehicles to be at risk in that situation.
gtemnykh – I tend to ride and drive based on sight lines but I’ve been guilty as sin at pushing limits BUT never on a city street or a road with multiple side access points.
If only the roads were populated with people like you… Seems like nobody thinks about the people they put at risk while driving like an idiot.
joeaverage – worked as a paramedic for 20 years. I love bikes and they have their risks. I rode with a group of guys and one was nuts. I said he was crazy and stupid not good. The group ostracized me. it was no biggie. I liked to ride not wheelie or do stoppies in front of a crowd. A few weeks after that remark he t-boned a taxi at 2 AM. The guy with him was ahead and never knew his buddy died.
Sometimes I really do hate it when I’m right.
The one hard motorcycle wreck I witnessed was very thought provoking. We were a long way from help too.
I’ll bet you’ve seen it all as a paramedic. Thanks for being one.
joeaverage – thanks.
Only one thing matters: If you are out-driving either your vision or your ability to stop, you are gambling. Period.
1. If there had been an accident between the Atom driver and the motorcyclist, the driver of the Ariel Atom would have been cited for “Following too closely.”
2. The car in the middle of the road is definitely in the wrong place. It should be on the shoulder.
3. I started riding motorcycles back when Macintosh computers were ugly white boxes. I have had a lot of friends and acquaintances have wrecks. Some have died. Nearly all have admitted some fault in an accident. Maybe it was 10 percent of their fault. Maybe it was 100 percent. The exception is when the motorcyclist was stopped at a traffic light and the motorist rear ended him.
Life’s hard. As a motorcyclist, we are all compensating for something. For some, it’s a small p3nis. For all of us, it’s for bad motorists. We’re taking up their slack so we can enjoy the other 98 percent of our ride.
_THIS_ ~
That’s why I own multiple 90 C.C. Motos and only a few full size ones ~ it’s because I have a tiny , nearly imperceptible penis .
Right ? =8-) .
God knows it couldn’t be because I actually like riding them every where .
-Nate
“The exception is when the motorcyclist was stopped at a traffic light and the motorist rear ended him.”
I have to take issue with this. If you are stopped at a light on your motorcycle without:
A) Watching your mirrors
and
B) A planned escape route
You are partially at fault.
Back when my ex-wife was carrying our first child, We were sitting at a light in our car. There was almost no traffic and it was raining lightly. There was a car that had been following me at a decent distance. My MC habits had me watching the closing rate of said car. I hit the gas and pulled through the intersection and to the right shoulder just as the driver realized that there was red light and slammed on the brakes to go skidding right through where we were just sitting. This is one of the reasons why I ride: heightened situational awareness that becomes ingrained habit.
True this ;
When I was run over nearly killed , it was 04:15 on a Tuesday morning , I was sitting there ,head so far up my @$$ it’s amazing .
I was foolishly thinking how great my life was : good job I love , nice place to live , wonderful old lady I’m dotty about who’d retired the day before , even my Moto (2000 MY Kawasaki W650) was running perfectly .
Not paying any attention to my surroundings in the quiet pre dawn .
Then , I woke up in a Meat Wagon and my life was changed forever .
I still ride a little bit (walking is hard these days) and I try hard to keep an eye on the mirrors but I also have to watch as far ahead as I can , I ride *much* slower these days than I ever did before .
This Saturday the Vintage Japanese Moto Club of Los Angeles is taking it’s annual road trip to Death Valley , it took me forever to get them to try riding Tiddlers and now I can’t ride that far but I’ll be following , having fun watching them and remembering the years gone past .
Ride hard , far and wide but always : SAFELY .
-Nate
Nate,
Didn’t know you were a big Vintage Japanese bike guy, very cool! I’ve owned and ridden a fair share myself now. Rode a 1977 XS500 across the US and back in 2008 with some graduating college friends astride similar vintage Japanese stuff. Still have that Yamaha now. Had a super clean 1978 GS1000 for a few years, a real gem of a bike. Started then sold off a 1970 Suzuku T500 project due to relocating for work. My brother has a ’65 S90 and a ’74 CB360G.
Those W650s are (IMO) a much better tribute to the original Triumph twins than the 2000+ Bonneville remakes that Triumph made themselves. I bought one cheap a few years back but quickly flipped it for a very tidy profit once I realized just how un-charismatic it was in stock form.
@Nate – sorry to hear. We all have moments on inattention.
I have never forgotten what a senior Paramedic colleague told me about “lights and sirens” driving which applies to riding bikes more than anything else, ” Drive with the belief that you are invisible to 99% of the motoring public. The remaining 1% can see you but are trying to kill you.”
This will be my third year that I will make a weak attempt at selling my 2005 Kaw Z750S. Though I still like riding through the twisty, hilly terrain of Western PA, I can’t get any real enjoyment with all of the traffic, inattentive drivers, and road conditions that can go from really decent to absolutely terrible around any bend. Lots of seniors here, too, doing unexpected things, along with soccer moms in giant SUV’s who are a million miles away from the driver’s seat. Deer are icing on the cake.
A buddy of mine T-boned a car that pulled out in front of him 2 years ago, and after seeing the painful extent of his recovery, (and the requirement of a visiting nurse for months) that pretty much quashed my enthusiasm – I’m not going to be that dependent on someone by the foolish choices that I make.
Ride with your head on a swivel, assume everyone is trying to kill you, scan the road for debris, plan ahead, etc. — and most of all: Enjoy the ride! ;-)
I pay attention to No Passing signs. They usually mean that there’s limited visibility, I think in Michigan they’re posted when there’s less than 500 feet of visibility.
My brother once rear ended a semi that was stopped on a 55 mph Ohio two-lane.
It was 60 mph at least, from how fast the T-cans and T-poles were going by, which is nothing for those 2. He passed by the car at at least 35. But if the Atom driver had pulled a gun on the BMW driver/parker, and killed him on the spot, justifiable homicide in my eyes. And one less self righteous prick on the road we don’t need.
Everyone would have had shared responsibility if there was an accident. I’m sure all three driver’s insurance companies would fight each other to the death over who was the proximate cause and the liability percentages.
I didn’t see any brake lights on the car. Is that just me?
GREAT topic ! .
I bet I’ve ridden / driven that same road many times .
My first thought was ” the Moto and Ariel because they exceeded their sight lines but then I remembered that i too have had the very same issue both on my Moto and in my various four wheelers .
Folks who stop in the lane are of course very dangerous but you , as the other Vehicle’s Operator are supposed to be alert and drive aware at all times .
(Says they guy who often speeds the hell out of these back roads if there’s no traffic) .
A good subject for discussion .
I no longer ride my Moto fast or even very much since I was run over by a gypsy cab whilst waiting at a red light , crippling me for life and nearly killing me but too many Drivers get hurt in these situations , especially when U -Turns are being made near or in , blind sections of the roadway .
I await the various comments .
-Nate
Not really any good way to judge the speed here, but while they may have exceeded the posted limit, they weren’t being completely ridiculous. If they were, there’s no way the bike would have been able to recover from that fishtail and swerve around the car. Bikes lose maneuverability quickly the faster they go.
I realize it’s the driver’s responsibility not to hit something that’s in front of him, and do what it takes to live up to that in given conditions, but if there’s no law against stopping in the middle of the road there ought to be. You can always roll over to the shoulder if your engine quits. There’s no reason to be right smack in a travel lane while stopped.
Unless all 4 wheels came off and he had no way of getting it to the shoulder, it’d still be more his fault normally. You always have a responsibility to not set up camp in a lane of travel and get you’re SH!T to the side. It’s not complicated. This prick could have easily seen and or heard them roaring up the canyon behind him and thought it was payday time.
And what if it’s an injured cyclist that can’t be taken off the road.
the fact that people here can’t seem to imagine scenarios in which an obstacle may be around a blind turn speaks volumes to their intelligence.
I’m all for sprite driving. Doing it where sight lines are bad is frankly moronic.
I have taught my kids to consider how far they are from a hospital and help when they feel inclined to do something risky. Things I never thought about when I was a kid.
One doesn’t justify the other. If being on the travel lane is totally unavoidable on a blind curve. dense fog, etc, it’s different scenario.
On a steep downhill with a 20,000 lbs combination and 30 mph, I’ll have to overdrive my line of sight if there’s something on a blind curve. I’ll do everything I can not to hit it and stop short. And obviously much of anything below 30 mph, I’m the thing blocking the road.
Driving, for some the most difficult thing they will do all day, and they do it all day long.
GMat – agreed but most think that they are good at it. That is even more scary.
Prayer One Answered: The bike went over the double lines into the oncoming lane to avoid the stopped car and there was no oncoming traffic.
Prayer Two Answered: The Atom went right onto the shoulder and had just enough room to squeeze between the stopped car and the drop-off to his right.
Betting the driver in what appears to be a blue BMW 3-series was hooning just seconds earlier, saw a beautiful vista, and just had to snap a shot on his smartphone (which is hard to do when your head is that far up your sphincter). Not that I haven’t seen it before. Once, while driving a fully loaded asphalt truck on a mountain road, I came upon a motorcyclist stopped mid-lane taking a photo. I flat spotted all 10 tires and hit the horn, but even at 20 mph, stopping a loaded truck is akin to hitting the brakes on the Queen Mary. The biker heard death screeching toward him; he dropped his camera and grabbed the handlebars and squirted out of the way just in time. A couple miles later, he caught up to me. I was still shaking like a leaf, probably white as a ghost. In a clear passing area, he pulled alongside. I shrugged at him, as in WTF, man? He shook his head and mouthed “sorry” then drove on ahead. So close to being the worst day in both our lives.
It’s a 5-Series! The ugly early 00s one. :)
I… If you think the early 00s are the ugly ones, we have very different aesthetics.
You’re assuming I don’t think the 03+ one is even MORE ugly. Which I do!
88-96 V. nice looking
97-02 Eh, ugly, too small and roundy front.
03-10 Ugly^2
11+ Ok, if a bit compensatory looking.
CoreyDL, I can never take another styling comment from you seriously…
97-03 5-series is the best looking sedan ever put on the road!
Sorry for your loss then, and your hyperbole.
That 5 is easily trumped by the D2 A8, the 5000, the original Taurus, the Saab 9000, and the Citroen DS.
The original Taurus was quite the styling statement in its day, I will give you that.
“97-03 5-series is the best looking sedan ever put on the road!”
I absolutely agree and it’s by far the finest driving sedan I ever had the pleasure of owning
Signage indicating the safe and reasonable maximum speed at which the road ahead can be traversed is basic safety engineering. If the corner illustrated above is posted 35 and running it at 40ish instead is pushing driver reaction times in the event of an obstruction then at face value that engineering was done fairly well.
2nd take: they’re running a lot faster than 40 there. You can stop from 35-40 awfully quick on a dry road.
Face value leaves out that the other 99% of posted limits are 10-15 below the routine flow of traffic. As such, drivers have been conditioned to outright ignore them.
It goes without saying that speed enforcement is about revenue and not safety, that speed limit signs no longer have the credibility to warn of the roadway conditions ahead is an under appreciated aspect of that.
“It goes without saying that speed enforcement is about revenue and not safety, that speed limit signs no longer have the credibility to warn of the roadway conditions ahead is an under appreciated aspect of that.”
This is a great point. On most twisty roads I’ve been on in CA, the speed limits should be taken seriously. I think they are set plenty high for the conditions. Unfortunately, 65 mph signs on straight highways five lanes wide rob the appropriate speed limits of all credibility.
I divide the world of roads into “city roads” and “country roads”. If you drive the full posted speed limit on city roads all day long you should be safe. If you drive the full posted speed limit on country roads all day long you’re likely to die in a corner because of radius, road conditions, or sight lines.
Around the SF Bay Area, Highway 9 and 35/Skyline, 92 west of the reservoir, and most of Marin are country roads. I mostly learned in Marin.
25 years of motorcycle experience here. First, both of these guys were running far too fast for conditions. I’ve done that plenty of times and my thoughts are if you play that game you take your chances. What made this a real emergency was the speed these guys were traveling. Had they been going 40 mph or so (and I have no idea what the limit is here so I am going off what they would be back home in WA) they would have had plenty of time to stop or react.
On the plus side, both the bike and the Atom did a great job of avoiding the accident. I find that many people, especially in the USA, don’t think to use the shoulder or other open spaces on the road to avoid. A lot of people would have either got target fixation and plowed right into the back of the BMW or “laid it down” which are the worst possible solutions.
Just watching the bike, and despite the fact that this rider has a thing about taking his foot of the peg, (which is a bad mistake in my opinion) the rider holds the lines through the corner and adjusts smoothly when he needs to. He also shows a lot of lane discipline (other than the very last part when the emergency happens) so my guess is that this is a pretty experienced rider. That sort of experience is what saves people in situations like this. He didn’t just get lucky here, he made his own luck.
Fantastic advice from R.A. “Bob” Hoover:
Fly the airplane right up until the crash. It’s surprising how flying, riding motorcycles and driving have translatable skills, the primary one of which is this: do not willingly give up control.
Thomas Kreutzer- I did not like the fact that the guy kept lifting his leg off. I rode dirt bikes for years and when I first started riding street bikes and quads it was next to impossible to break the habit.
He did not make the universally stupid lock the rear brake panic move typical of so many.
The guy had some skill but not common sense.
But who am i to judge….. I never had a street bike with chicken strips.
Doing that on dirt is understandable, the back end slides around a lot more. I came up on the street and to do well there you have to learn to trust your tires. I don’t think the guy was a squid but he has a nasty habit – whether or not its a GP/track thing doesn’t matter to me, you have important controls under your feet and pulling them off the peg, especially in an emergency, deprives you of that control (albeit a gear lever in this case) not to mention the leverage you can use down low to shift the bike around.
Like you said earlier, I feel like I would have just blown right by the stopped car without any issues myself, especially since I would have been looking through the corner and would have given myself more time to react. You and I both get that the first answer isn’t always to jump on the brakes and stand the bike up – it almost caused a highside in this case when the back grabbed and then let loose – but to look where you want to go and let the bike follow your line of sight.
I agree with you, he could have done better but any landing you can walk away from…
@Thomas Kreutzer – high sides are nasty. Never done one on the street. It has happened to me on dirt and even high sided a quad once. Got real lucky on that one. you know you have hit the ground hard when you get skin burn through your elbow pads.
Unless you got the gonads to supermoto on the street your feet should be on the pegs. Guy was maybe showboating for the camera.
Looking at it again this morning I’m gonna say I was wrong about the potential high side. The rider stands the bike up and the back wiggles a bit, but it doesn’t get close enough to sliding out far enough to cause a problem.
The foot thing too does look like he is using it as a signal. It comes off before he dives into the deepest corner and again when the car appears. Its still a bad habit IMHO he has brake lights and people behind can see those so there is no need for race track shenanigans.
Thomas Kreutzer – motocrossers will throw a leg back to level the bike in the air but he isn’t in the air LOL.
I think it is just a bad habit.
I’ve driven this road via car and motorcycle (at very high speed – but only in very specific spots with good sight lines) I’ve also ridden it by bicycle.
The car shouldn’t have stopped in the middle of the road, BUT a car may need to stop for any number of reasons and because of that the atom and cyclist drivers are at fault.
pulling through a blind turn at speeds is one of the stupidest things one can do on a motorcycle. It’s equally stupid in Ina car. Anything could have been around that turn. Here are a few.
1. Cyclists (or a fallen cyclist(s) – I have seen this many times on this road. I can’t reiterate this enough. Cyclists fall and not always where they can get up nor do they always fall to the shoulder.)
2. A child
3. Pedestrians/runners (both of which I’ve seen here)
4. Road debris. (Rocks are very common on this road)
5. A hidden drive. (There are many houses on this road)
6. Construction workers
Most of those things “should” be on the shoulder. But that may not always be possible, plus traffic may be coming the other way which limits how much room you can give them.
people that drive like this frankly give responsible speeders a bad name. I’ve been followed by many that can’t keep up in an open sight line turn but then tailgate excessively when I slow to go around a blind turn (mainly because I know cyclists ate frequent here)
In closing – the Ariel atom and motorcycle driver are at fault for having to go off pavement/out of lane. I didn’t mind their driving overall, but they were going way too fast through blinds corners. No excuse for that behavior
See 7 up, you’re missing the most obvious object that could have been around the corner; the truck on its route picking up those trash and recycling barrels.
Given that we don’t know why the car was there (old BMW – engine or electrical failure, dead battery, etc) and that the Ariel and the bike were clearly “racing” along the road (even if not -that- far over the speed limit) and following each other too closely, I say they’re at fault. They’re racing on a residential road. Blind corners, garbage cans all over, and inevitable old people with their slow reaction times driving their large cars to their luxury homes.
I could go either way on this one –
BMW driver if stopped for no good reason or intentionally (reckless).
Motorbike / Ariel for speeding.
But as mentioned before, what if it had been a child, pedestrian, etc… becomes much more clear-cut in that case as to whom is at fault.
I agree. Whether it’s a car, child, a big rock, a garbage truck, a fallen elderly person – it’s your job as a driver to be on alert and maintain a speed responsible enough that you can avoid any unforeseen obstacles. You know you can’t see around this corner, so slow down.
That fact that both bikes were able to get around the morons stopped in the middle of the highway without incident is proof they weren’t riding too fast IMHO.
A valid point as well. There really is no “fault” because things only “almost” happened.
Try and call the police and tell them someone almost caused an accident. See what they do.
In my case, someone calling the police and claiming that I’d cut them off resulted in my being pulled over by 2 PA State Troopers. Presumably because the person who called said they thought I was drunk.
I wasn’t, and they let me go.
Hmm. I was thinking more local police – them state troopers will go after ya for anything.
Like the one that gave me a ticket for speeding, when I was driving in the middle of a large pack of cars all going the same rate. Because I had the nicest car.
Ariel Atom?
I crawled past a state trooper going 55 in a 55 on a 4 lane highway in Minneapolis. The jerk pulled me over but I didn’t get a ticket. Officer 118, young guy, mean as ship, we called him” scare face” at the towing company I worked at part time.
I remember working one Sunday and was on a call where a young girl had broken down on the same highway. She crawled into my truck in tears because, you guessed it, good old 118 came to her rescue and then read her the riot act. What a mother! Maybe that scar on his face had something to do with it.
This was about 25 years ago, hopefully he found a new profession. He didn’t belong in law enforcement.
Sounds like you and madanthony were really unlucky. Jack had a story somewhat recently about trying to get the police to do something about a truck harassing him in traffic, and had no success in something like three states. Even passed multiple cruisers busy with revenue collection. Maybe Jack was the unlucky one, who knows.
Regarding being stopped for having the nicest car, I typically expect the reverse; they’ll stop the crappy car where they think they might find other offenses.
I had a shiny A8L, and it was a motorcycle cop. Wrong car at the wrong time!
That is an extremely shortsighted and frankly dangerous viewpoint.
There are a number of very plausible circumstances that were likely that could have resulted in the death of the motorcyclist and atom driver.
Here is a simple one: a car coming the other way and a tree on the shoulder.
Based on your comment, driving 80 mpg through an active school zone with kids around is fine as long as nobody gets hit.
What does driving 5 mph over the posted speed limit on a highway have to do with driving through an active school zone @ 80 MPH? Explain to me your reasoning behind comparing those two scenarios because frankly I don’t get it.
Your correct that a car coming the other way could have been a problem. A tree on the shoulder? No, the shoulders where I live are not littered with trees. What would be the point of a shoulder if you couldn’t drive on it.
You do realize that someone going the speed limit whose reflexes weren’t lightening fast could have easily crashed into those people stopped dead in the middle of the road behind the curve don’t you?
You stated that since both people were able to get around without incident is proof they weren’t riding too fast.
That is equivalent to me saying that since I didn’t kill a kid, my driving recklessly through a school zone also isn’t too fast.
I may agree with you if they went around said car in a controlled manner. They didnt. They got very lucky.
I do realize people with slow reaction times may have crashed. But quicker reaction times is no excuse to plow on and hope you have an out should something arise.
I agree they didn’t make it around in a completely controlled manor. And if you think they were going too fast I can respect that. But comparing what those guys were doing to speeding through a school zone is a little over the top. For me, two completely different things
The reality is If I was in our family truckster w/wife & kids tooling down that road I’d much rather share it with the two guys on the bikes than the dummy in the car.
“Both” bikes?
In reality, it doesn’t really matter what the BMW was doing parked in the middle of the road. Had the motorcycle rider and the Atom driver been anywhere close to the posted speed limit on what is in fact a residential street (notice all of the driveways and recycling bins) they wouldn’t have had to make those evasive moves to avoid what could have been anything in the middle of a residential street. What if it was the truck picking up that recycling? What if it was a car pulling out of one of those driveways?
Anyone defending the rider/Atom driver needs to have their heads examined.
Canada actually gave jail time to a women who stopped to rescue a duck in the road and got hit by a motorcyclist who died:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/canadian-woman-prison-time-duck-car-crash-article-1.2051060
You need to be in control of your vehicle at all times. You also should do whatever you can not to stop your vehicle in the middle of traffic.
And you can’t imagine anything but a car blocking all or at least part of a road way?
Driving like this around blind turns is stupid, there is no excuse.
The duck woman is not a comparable case. She stopped on a highway, while this video was shot on a residential street.
It’s certainly stupid to stop there, but I don’t think it reaches the level of criminal negligence in the context of a residential neighborhood.
Sorry, burgers… The fact that the road had a double-yellow line and obvious shoulder stripes makes it quite clear this is not some “residential street” but rather a state or county highway.
Did you miss the recycling bins? Or maybe that the Atom came to a stop in front of someone’s driveway? It might not be thickly settled, but it is definitely residential, whether it is technically a state or county highway or not.
While I couldn’t quickly find a story specifically identifying the Canadian road in question, it looks like a limited-access divided highway, not a road where you should have every expectation of encountering a hazard such as a cyclist, pedestrian, garbage truck, etc.
No, I did not miss them. Nor did I miss the fact that the Atom parked at the mouth of a driveway. However, that does NOT make the highway a “residential road”; it is still a highway even if it does have a relatively low speed limit. Roads like that lie all over this country in hilly and mountainous regions and when they are marked as a highway then they ARE highways. That also does not preclude the fact that private individuals will own properties on either side of said highways. So your argument is invalid.
There’s a road in my neighborhood with double-yellow lines that most certainly is NOT a highway. It’s a residential street in a medium-density neighborhood with a 25MPH limit.
You can’t decide something is a highway (or not) because of the lines on the road (or lack thereof).
I’ll put it this way, sirwired: I have NEVER seen a street with center stripes and shoulder lines that was NOT a numbered county or state route/highway. I have lived in Nebraska, Colorado, Maryland, Tennessee and Nevada and driven in or through nearly every state in the continental US. Now, where is this residential street with center striping?
Here are some residential streets near where I live with double yellow lines. They aren’t highways – they’d have a route number if they were.
http://goo.gl/r34f90
http://goo.gl/WSAqSY
http://goo.gl/sEh84p
@mcs: Thank you for the examples.
However, I might note that Great Pond Road appears to be an extension of county road 133. In fact, judging by that map it may have at one time BEEN Rt 133. The road itself is also not a residential street, though a number of subdivisions do branch off of it. It appears to me more like an exception proving the rule.
Boston St. is similar in that it is a rural road and not residential per se. After the intersection where it changes name, it rides through a state forest. Roads like these in Pennsylvania DO have route numbers, though they are rarely posted as such on maps. At least in PA there are signs–small but visible–at every intersection posting the route number of the cross roads. True residential streets do not typically bear these signs. A reminder here too: PA ‘boasts’ over one million miles of paved roads. There are many county roads in PA that do NOT have such markings.
My whole point above is that the road in question, while having some private residences on it, is not a residential street but a throughway. That does not absolve the bike and the Atom of their speeding, but neither does it absolve the BMW driver of being an idiot and nearly causing what could have been a deadly crash. Fault still rides most heavily on the idiot parking his car in the travel lane of the road.
Great Pond road is not and was never an extension of 133.
Here’s a link to the 1795 map showing Great Pond road (I think they have it as Newbury) and Boston Rd (shown as road to North Reading). They definitely aren’t highways by any definition, but maybe back in the 18th century. They are a little wider in some places than back then, but not much and they follow the same route.
http://goo.gl/qPY3cf
Here’s Central St. which is clearly not a highway and heavily populated residential and I think a 30 zone:
http://goo.gl/rVrAcc
I could probably find thousands more examples.
This is why personal video recordings will become essential to defend one’s position in court. There are specific fault determinations which can be upended by providing proof of the other guy’s behavior prior to the crunch.
A fellow who worked for my father suffered a collision with a parked truck while driving his new early 80s Toyota truck from Lahaina back to his regular haunt in the Paia area. The collision’s location is near 20.787873, -156.555872 for map programs. Upon exiting the tunnel, he was confronted with an impatient driver making an illegal and dangerous pass, and swerved to avoid the oncoming vehicle. His swerve aimed him directly into the rear of another pickup truck parked along the shoulder
His truck was destroyed, and the other truck was punched through the guard rail and down the cliff face, also destroying it.
At the time, it was illegal to park a motor vehicle along the much narrower shoulder area of Honoapiilani Highway with an exception for emergencies. The parked truck had its left rear tire removed and its axle supported by a jack.
The driver of the truck was located at a nearby cliff base, fishing. He claimed he had suffered a flat tire but as he could not provide any receipts for a patched or replaced tire, nor any records for calling a tow truck, he was held responsible for parking his truck in a restricted area and deemed the one at fault. The man who worked for my father received yet another new truck to replace his newly destroyed truck, itself the fruits of a night collision with a wandering cow a year prior.
For more aerial photograph fun around the location depicted with the GPS coordinates, you can clearly see the original road to Lahaina and compare it to the much safer, yet still hazardous, modern replacement.
As many probably realize from my comments, I’m an avid cyclist. Also love driving. Most cyclist enjoy the same roads drivers do, for obvious reasons.
One of my greatest fears is when I’m climbing and the road has blind right hand turns?
Why? People think they are sporty and “hug the apex”. We’ll guess what, I’m traveling at maybe 5mph, your doing 40+ mph. Combine that with no sight lines and big a-pillars of most cars and I have a right to fear.
I say this because I see it often, by “fast” drivers and even lay people that would ordinarily be deemed cautious.
please please – do not hug or “apex hunt” blind right hand turns. Save the fun driving for when you can see at least the entrance to the NEXT turn. I encourage everyone to pass this on to everyone they know. I don’t want to die and I’m sure nobody wants to kill someone
See 7 up – I got in the habit of being as far left as possible on right hand blind corners and be as far right as possible on left handers to try to improve sight lines.
When ever I was on a straight stretch of road and saw a transport truck. motorhome or any big bulky vehicle I’d move over to the right as far as I could go. Invariably there would be a moron parked on that unit’s bumper and would dart out for a peek at the road. Almost got hit once so that is why I adopted that strategy.
Winding narrow roads tend to have more debris on the right handers. People towing camper trailers tend to forget about the trailer “doglegging” further off track than the tow vehicle and will ride the shoulder. This pulls crap onto the road. On a left hander the trailer just doglegs into oncoming lane and therefore less debris.
Cars should not be apex-clipping on public roads, end of story.
I can see how it’s possible if I have full visibility through the entire turn, but that is a minority of turns in my local mountain roads in northern California. I could see this being less of an issue in, say, Texas hill country.
In addition to endangering cyclists, apexing turns puts your car at risk of contacting the edge of the pavement, which may be rough or broken. A track has rumble strips specifically designed for cars to nip them. Guess what, your local 2-lane does not, and it might even have a friendly tree root underneath to lump or break the pavement.
Just a quick Google search indicates compensatory negligence on the stopped Bimmer. No brake or hazard lights and it stopped in the middle of a traffic lane. The exact division of negligence? That’s how lawyers make their money.
“Is It Possible for the Driver of Car Hit From Behind in a Rear-End Collision to Be Partially at Fault?
Yes, it is possible for the driver whose car is hit from behind to bear some fault in a rear-end accident. This is particularly true if the hit car driver’s negligence caused the accident in some way. Perhaps the hit car’s brake lights did not function. Or the hit car blew a tire and stopped in the middle of a traffic lane, rather than retreating to the shoulder of the road. In those instances, the hit car’s driver may have some comparative or contributory negligence in the collision that would reduce or eliminate any ultimate monetary recovery.”
Although technically one can be at fault, it would be hard to get that verdict in this situation as the two drivers were obviously exceeding the speed limit.
Your comment does kind of remind me of something my friend once said to me when he hit the crosswalk button in Laguna beach (the kind with no intersection). He immediately started walking without looking since the crosswalk was now flashing. I yelled, he said “hey they are at fault if they hit me” smart huh? Hopefully he doesn’t learn how at fault they can be.
this sort of thing is a common occurrence in Cambridge, MA.
David, you should write an article about driving and parking in the Cambridge-Somerville area. Maybe throw in the North End for good measure. Accompany it with some youtube video!
I did do a qotd on jay walking, featuring Cambridge
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/12/ask-the-best-and-brightest-how-do-you-deal-with-jaywalkers/
I actually manage OK with the parking in Cambridge, even without a resident sticker. But I generally avoid the North End.
I also had a funny comment on Cambridge drivers close to, or at the end of this story:
http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2012/09/bicycle-accidents-helmet-fit
It’s common in pretty much all urban areas near or in Boston. It’s hard enough driving around there, but the pedestrians take it to another level.
>> but the pedestrians take it to another level.
And now that it’s marathon training time, it’s extra fun.
See 7 up – my dad used to say, “It doesn’t matter if you had the right of way if you end up dead.”
His other one that saved me more than once, ” A green light doesn’t mean you can just go.”
I was at a red light and it was stale. It was winter and the left hand traffic approached the light on a downhill. i watched a loaded box van approach. The light changed and I refused to move. on cue all of the morons behind me started honking their horns. It got really quiet when they finally noticed the box van drift sideways through the intersection.
I assume the BMW driver was just trying to figure out what that center dial did on his climate control.
You win the internet.
ajla – ouch.
+1
Well this is certainly a valuable post. I have gotten a lot more careful in upper middle age. Now when I drive Cape Cod’s narrow, twisty, somewhat off the beaten path, and very beautiful Old County Road I assume a cyclist around every bend. Which is fairly easy for me to do because I’m often the cyclist.
One of my close friends totaled her Forester into someone who had parked in the middle of a 35-40 mph country road. In this case, normally she would have seen the car in time to stop, but she was blinded by the sun as she went around the bend.
You think that’s bad. A few weeks ago i was headed home on I-80 in Pennsylvania. Speed limit is 70 mph and suddenly came upon a car stopped in the middle of the driving lane. Driver didn’t have sense enough to head for the shoulder as the vehicle rolled to a stop. I have no idea what may have happened behind me once i rolled by in a gaggle of truck traffic. Scary, yeah!
A couple of weeks ago somebody decided it would be a good idea to change a flat tire in one of the middle lanes of an urban freeway here (100km/h speed limit) in the morning peak hour, I hope they got a ticket for that!
As someone who’s been accident-free in the last 37 years of driving, my advice is: Expect the unexpected.
As a former owner of a number of classic sports cars and sports sedans, with a maximum 185mm tire width and very low handling limits (although nicely balanced), I could have great fun on curvy back roads while not exceeding the speed limit and being relatively sure I would be able to stop or turn to avoid unforeseen obstacles. Most modern cars, and particularly sporty variants, have far higher limits, and to get the same thrill you need to greatly exceed posted limits, and have much less reaction time to stop or avoid licensed idiots or unlicensed children and deer (4 legged and John), etc. Furthermore, you need far wider road shoulders to get go around things today because of increased vehicle width compared to my old BMW 2002 or Healey 3000. Bring back skinny cars and tires for increased safety.
I upgraded my tires last summer and made the frightening discovery that I could now drive well beyond my sightlines around tight corners. The previous tires didn’t have enough lateral grip to do that. I am not sure if it was really an upgrade.
If the motorcycle and Atom had been going slower, that would have given the BMW driver time to back up even closer to the bend to get a better photo, and then there would have been an accident. :)
Some people just don’t think. I’ve seen people step off an escalator and then immediately stop. Can someone argue for the contributory negligence of the pile of humanity that forms behind them?
H. sapiens. Big brains. Don’t know how to use ’em.
Homo Sapiens will hopefully give way to Homo Intelligens – but it’s going to take more than a few millenia for that to happen, and as Kornbluth and Pohl observed, theirs might not be a life worth living.
All three drivers are at fault here, and had a crash occurred, I’d assign them equal amounts of liability for what would have happened.
The BMW was obviously stopping in the middle of the road for no good reason (granted, that’s just an assumption), which is a complete No-go.
But as so many others have already pointed out, going through corners that you can’t look into at these speeds is just plain irresponsible. You NEVER know what’s waiting behind that corner on public roads.
Heck, I don’t even go into blind corners at above-average speeds on my BICYCLE, let alone on my motor bike or my car.
If the Atom driver and the guy on the motorycle wanted to have a little race, well, that’s what a closed track would have been for.
I hear they even have people there with shiny yellow flags waving them like crazy in situations like these…..
“All three drivers are at fault here, and had a crash occurred, I’d assign them equal amounts of liability for what would have happened.” — I disagree. While the bike and the Atom may have earned a ticket each, there would not have been any accident if the BMW had not been there. The BMW not only deserves a ticket, but an actual court visit with criminal charges because I don’t know of any US state that does not criminalize stopping in the traffic lane without due cause.
“The BMW was obviously stopping in the middle of the road for no good reason (granted, that’s just an assumption), which is a complete No-go.” — Rather than saying ‘no good reason’, I would have said, ‘no apparent reason” as one commenter is right in saying there are no visible brake lights on the BMW and there is no visible reason why the car would be stopped–especially there–instead of on the shoulder. I would also agree that it almost appears to be an intentional effort to cause a crash due to both the location and the apparent conditions. It won’t be the first time I’ve heard of insurance fraud through such means.
“But as so many others have already pointed out, going through corners that you can’t look into at these speeds is just plain irresponsible.” — Even at the posted speed limit, it would have been difficult for any but a very good driver to avoid a collision at that spot. However, I would also note that on many highways a reduced speed ‘advisory’ is posted approaching blind curves that are openly ignored by the vast majority of drivers. A 55mph highway with a 35mph curve usually sees drivers slow to 45-50 to maintain control of their cars rather than slow to the lower speed expecting a stationary object/vehicle in the road. Said caution/advisory signs tend not to take the status of law as they are on a yellow diamond or a smaller yellow rectangle as compared to the typical posted speed limit. As for their actual speed during the course, it is visibly obvious that they slow significantly through the sharper, more blind curves as compared to the sweeping curves earlier in the video. Additionally, both bike and Atom stay within their lane and don’t cut the apexes the way cars really pushing the limits would do. This alone says they’re not going that much over the limit through the entire video.
As for whether or not they’re having a race–well obviously they’re not; they’re playing ‘follow the leader’ which is a different game entirely. Additionally, not every county or even state has road-course racetracks that are open to the public on non-race days. True, there are a few scattered around the country and I would love to see more, but in my own case I would have to drive a minimum of 200 miles to reach the nearest ones. I have four different off-road parks that I know of within that radius.
Wrong. I really don’t feel like typing out a long response to your wrongness, but you are wrong. First of all, on another website that rhymes with Jalopnik, someone went through the trouble of estimating the speed they were traveling (58 MPH) versus the speed limit for that road (30 MPH), and posted a map of the section of the road where the video takes place. And while the road may be a state highway, that doesn’t mean that it isn’t densely populated. In fact, the number of driveways and volume of trash/recycling bins in that short clip – as well as having driven on that road on a couple different occasions – tell me that the population density up there is more than you think. This is not some abandoned back road.
Don’t put words in my mouth, Jimal; I never even hinted that it was “an abandoned back road.” The road is, by your own admission, a state highway and not a residential street. The simple fact that there were recycling bins and multiple driveways does not change that fact.
I believe I also suggested that the speeds on the straightaways was roughly 60mph, so you’re not correcting me there either, merely confirming and detailing what I had already said.
As for “densely populated”, that’s a matter of scale. The driveways on average were on the downhill side of the road and appeared to be on average several hundred feet apart. When the typical residential area has driveways 100 feet apart or less, THAT would be considered dense while the community we’re looking at is more likely homes of people with 6-figure salaries and actively avoiding getting too close to their neighbors. Yes, it may have a fair number of those homes, but by no means are they subdivision-level housing using private streets.
My point was not to argue about their idiocy in this video, only to emphasize that even though they were speeding, a car parked in the middle of a traffic lane like that is both atypical and illegal in almost every state in this union. The two speeders would have earned a ticket for speeding but the driver of the BMW would have faced criminal charges unless that vehicle were simply incapable of being moved off the road–at which point the owner would have probably been cited for additional charges for not maintaining the vehicle in a safe manner. No car in road equals no wreck or panic maneuvers.
Additionally, I am sure most of us know that hill racing is very, very common in almost all parts of the country. We also know that it is by no means safe and that when caught the racers do get ticketed. Where I live specifically, so-called Street Racing is far more predominant; I see oil stripes on highways all around my region where racers have blown their engines and one such stripe ran into and through my own residential community and ended in front of one of the homes here.
I agree that such racers are idiots that deserve to lose all driving privileges. BUT, had they hit that car, they would NOT be the ones at fault, the driver who left that car there would. That’s why I give the parked car 90% of the blame or at least 80% with the bike and Atom sharing the rest.
Many years ago, my wife and I were coming home after dark on a slightly winding road. I was driving too fast for her comfort, and she said something that has stuck with me ever after.
“What do you think would happen if you come over the next hill and there is a refrigerator lying in the road? Don’t tell me it can’t happen, because you know very well that it can.”
I have slowed down a lot since then (although I would never admit it to her, got my image to keep up).
No matter whether the driver of the car is legally at fault for stopping in the middle of the road, if you hit the back of that car at 20-60 mph you will be in bad trouble. If you fly off the road to the right you will be in bad trouble.
Another wise saying I heard is “no matter how effective the fire department is, you are always worse off once the fire is out than you were before it started.” I would rather be broke and healthy than have a bunch of money from a lawsuit after cracking myself up in an accident that’s someone else’s legal fault.
You aren’t supposed to outdrive your vision or your brakes. Neither the posted speed limit nor the wisdom of the driver of the stopped vehicle change that.
That being said, there is a minimum speed law in California. If there had been a crash, then the driver of the striking vehicle would want to argue that the stopped driver violated that law and was therefore at least partially negligent.
—
22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.
No person shall bring a vehicle to a complete stop upon a highway so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the stop is necessary for safe operation or in
compliance with law.
I would agree with you pch, don’t out drive your vision,headlights or brakes
I’ve been known to take a pretty rapid approach to fun windy backroads – but I have one IRONCLAD rule – if I can’t see past the curve or hill, I slow the heck down, below the speed limit if necessary, and in Maine sometimes it is necessary. This is not exactly wide open country in most of the state. I always want to be able to stop in the distance I can see. Has saved my butt a number of times. Places where I can see, I have no problem going at a good clip.
Plenty of stupidity to go around in this video, by all parties.
About the worst example of stopping in the wrong place at the wrong time was an old duffer in a Crown Vic who evidently got confused at the split of I-93 and I-293 outside Manchester NH and just STOPPED in the middle of 6-7 lanes of fast moving heavy and merging Interstate traffic. I was leading a group drive of Saab Club folks to an event and had just enough time to jink around him, as did everyone else following me thankfully. No idea if he got hit or not, would be a miracle if he didn’t. I saw a couple cars ahead swerving so I was already slowing fairly fast when I figured out what was going on. Always look well ahead, it will save your bacon someday.
I’d say they’re ALL “f-ing” stupid – the bike and the Atom for racing, and the BMW driver for stopping in the middle of the road. And I think a couple of things are obvious here:
1) Watch that video with the road covered up – look higher up in the frame to see how fast those trees are going by, which has nothing to do with how low the camera is mounted. Thirty-five, my behind. It feels more like 50-60 to me.
2) This clearly goes through a low-density residential area (I counted four driveways in 40 seconds or so, some of which are situated on or near blind corners). The large number of garbage pails should have clued them in to that. These guys may not have been going full-tilt down that road (if they had been someone would have been killed), but the speed they were carrying wasn’t appropriate.
@Jack:
I’ve never driven the Hocking Hills course, but I’d imagine it’s a fairly deserted rural road with very few driveways and turn-offs. How does that compare to this road?
It’s rural, but it’s deep in an area with a lot of tourists/day-visiting people who come down to walk through the caverns and such. Lovely area, but there’s a surprising number of people down there, especially on the weekends. During the week, I assume, it’s a lot less busy.
Depends on where you are. I’ve spent twenty-two years getting a sense for there there’s traffic and where there isn’t. The best places to make speed are the places where there’s nothing but farmland and wilderness. Not everybody realizes this and that’s why you have a lot of crashed bikes and cars there.
Jack Baruth – i was in Montana in ’97 after the national 55 got repealed. I found this road through rolling ranchland. Every farm house was 1/4 mile from the road. Fences well back too. Just Rocky Mountain foothills grassland. it was winding and undulating and the odd cattle truck was the only traffic. it was heaven. The absolute best ever ride of my life. I almost ran out of gas I was so fixated on the joy of that road.
Do they have kamikaze deer in Montana? We have them here… ;)
But yeah – sounds like fun driving through Montana with no speed limit.
joeaverage – I wasn’t too worried on the road I described because there wasn’t much to hide behind.
Parking and stopping
2 Rules of the Road
There are many rules relating to parking. Obey signs that restrict stopping, standing, or parking, but be aware that not all parking by-laws are posted on signs. If it is necessary to stop, make sure that your vehicle is clear of the travelled portion of the highway. You may not park a vehicle on a street or highway for a period longer than 24 hours. Whenever your vehicle is left standing unattended, apply the parking brake and turn off the engine. Curbside wheels must be within 15 centimetres of the curb or edge of the road. “Your vehicle is considered stopped or parked if it is occupied or unoccupied and not moving.” You may not stop or park a vehicle in any of the following places:
•on the crest of a hill or on a curve where the view of an approaching driver is obstructed
•where you will block a vehicle already parked, etc.
Nova Scotia Rules of the Road. The BMW driver is completely at fault here. Much has has been said about people completely unaware of what they’re doing like stopping in doorways upon entering a store unaware there’s ten people behind them still walking. Same here. Bozo stopped car on travelled part of road on a curve, took no notice of surroundings. Guilty as charged. Period.
Cell phone driving laws are interesting. You aren’t supposed to drive and talk so they recommend you pull over to call.
The irony of that safety advice is the fact that most idiots who pull over to talk do so in unsafe locations.
The BMW driver was totally stupid for stopping in the middle of the road like that but this does illustrate the wisdom of backing off for blind crests and blind turns because you don’t know what is on the other side. I always anticipate the possibility of a farm tractor or dump truck and plan my exit strategy.
When I carve up mountain roads, I slow down, sometimes below the speed limit, ahead of a blind corner. Where a cliff face blocks visibility, I take a hairpin at a leisurely pace.
There could be innocent cyclists, douchebag cyclists, a broken down car, a douchebag parking a car, stray debris or even douchebag debris right around the bend.
Even if visibility is perfect, I never take a turn faster than I can confidently correct my car if it decides to surprise-understeer. I know people who have wrecked because a turn was dusty, and they lost the front end. Never trail-brake into a turn on public roads, because that leaves little room for surprise.
You want to flirt with the limits of your car? Take it to the track and for Apex’s sake buy track insurance if your car is even remotely special to you.
Never out-drive your visibility and reaction time on public roads. For your own sake as well as for others using the roads. Sometimes even the speed limit is still too fast.
On my favourite road, I see clueless drivers all the time neglecting to let me pass on a wide open straight, but then a blind hairpin comes up and half of the SUVs tear through it faster than my horsey.
jack-
just as a comparison, this is the same road where you chased me in your rented Silvercar Audi A4 and I was in the Fiesta.
A later you-tube commenter, instead of trying to figure speed out on such a short scale (never a good idea), used a longer scale and Google maps to measure landmarks:
“roll the video from the 3 second mark to the 23 second mark (20 seconds). Now use Google StreetView of Latigo Canyon Road in Malibu, California to match up where they were in the video at both the 3 second and 23 second mark. Use Google Maps to calculate the distance on the road between these two points; this comes out to 0.4 miles. Now take the 20 seconds and divide it by 0.4 miles: the answer is an AVERAGE speed of 72 mph. Since they slow for tighter turns, you can confidently say they were traveling faster than that on several straightaways. ”
That certainly matches up vs. what it looks like, which is a HECK of a lot faster than 35MPH. (They should have been nearly able to stop on a dime at 35; the fact it took them that long to stop makes it rather obvious they were going a lot faster.)
This makes more sense. Once the BMW comes into view, there is an enormous distance available for a stop from 40 mph for any passenger vehicle, let alone an Atom. I’ve had deer run out in front of me a lot closer than that at highway speed a few times, and I only clipped one. Even at 70 mph, I don’t think it would be a problem to stop if the driver wasn’t fixated on the motorcycle in front of him. I don’t know what the motorcyclist was looking at, but motorcycles also can’t brake like a sports car, especially on a curve.
My opinion on fault is this: if it ended up a three-vehicle collision, and they couldn’t prove that the motorcyclist was speeding or driving recklessly, then it would probably be a 50/50 with him and the BMW. The Atom driver would then be 100% at fault for his part of the collision for following too closely and/or driving too fast to account for an unexpected hazard. With the video and/or reconstructions of the speeds involved, even the motorcyclist would probably end up assuming more than 50% fault. I think the BMW driver deserves at least partial fault unless there is some reasonable explanation, beyond the driver’s control, to park his car there. Maybe the computers just decided to lock up all his brakes right there, as Jack experienced in a BMW at Laguna Seca.
Yeah, even given how close it is to the ground there’s NO way these guys are going anything even vaguely close to 35mph. Sure, the motorcyclist isn’t all out race track knee dragging every corner but they’re both being very aggressive with the scenery flying by. Driving 35mph or even 45mph looks nothing like, if anything videos of regular driving always seem extra slow compared to the real experience so if a video actually seems fast they’re probably driving even faster.
Sure, the BMW driver was an idiot, but anybody going anything close to the speed limit would have been able to stop, and in an area full of blind corners like that the speed limits are likely tighter than usual. There’s also a housing complex with a driveway right past the stopped car as well, so there could very well be people pulling in and out of that driveway right past a blind corner so it’s plain insane to be doing the kinds of speeds these two idiots are doing.
What would I do with this video?.Sell it to one of those Russian web sites depicting car crashes..
perhaps some of the bar room lawyers posting here should go to Russia and explain how they can sue those who run up your ass or stop in front of traffic are wrong.
In most counties ,except the USA by the looks of it, if you run up the back of someone,you are at fault. Either because you weren’t watching the road, you were too fast or, you were too close . There is no excuse for hitting any stationary object on the road .
https://youtu.be/5_70lcgLfCY
Those Russian car crash compilations are the best. So are the FAIL videos. Better than any driver’s ed class I ever took.
“Hey fella – here is the outcome of driving too fast for conditions. Here is the outcome of showing off.”
Watched a muscle car FAIL compilation last night with my kids.
“THIS is why YOU don’t show off. Let the other guy do the showing off. YOU can’t afford to show off. ;)”
Why is this even on TTAC? They were going far faster than 40-45 and it would’ve served them more than right if they went up that beemer’s rear.
The indignant “RUFKM” says it all. So.. what if a tie rod had let go on that beemer? That is why we ride within the limits. I tell my crew all the time that if they want to speed off and f**k around on the street, they can have at it and I will do my own thing. Not worth it but every year it is the same thing- this attitude of “hey I am on a bike, you gotta watch out and get out of my way” doesn’t work.. You want to share the streets with cagers? You have to act like one. Take the rest to the track.
Hey, I had a tie rod end failure on an ’84 Citation! More specifically, a failure to properly tighten and/or cotter pin the joint by the previous owner. I pulled over to the curb lane with a loss of drive and an odd dragging feeling at the front end and parked it with the front wheel completely s1deways. Not much of an event, but my drunk passengers sure thought it was hilarious. Fortunately, it was a nice evening for a walk.
I don’t disagree with anything you said though, Halftruth.
Thanks! You proved my point. You simply can’t know when someone is having an emergency. Ride safe!
Yep, mechanical failures and unexpected road hazards generally aren’t a problem when you’re not operating anywhere near the limit of the vehicle. That happened at the end of a left turn at under 30 mph on a residential street.
I was driving around on Pacific Coast Highway in Marin County, along the eastern edge of Muir Woods last weekend. I wasn’t going an unreasonable speed. The road was like this one: Bidirectional, double yellow lines, twisty, with many blind corners.
Around one blind corner, some tourists in a Mustang Convertible had stopped–in the middle of a bend–so the girlfriend could take a panorama. Very inconsiderate of them.
Glad to see this article is making folks think regardless of what they perceive .
Yes , I’m a Vintage Japanese Moto Nutter =8-) .
I have been since the 1960’s when Pops took me to the Watertown Hinda Dealer , they had a tiny little Honda 600 car , I was impressed by the 50 C.C. Cubs , 303 Dreams and Super Hawks ~ I imagine this was in 1964 ? . the Honda car failed miserably then .
I’ve had many different old Hondas , mostly Dreams , Benlys (means ‘convenient’ in Japanese) and Tiddlers ~ lots and lots of old Tiddlers .
A Bridgestone , a Suzuki 250 thing with the 5 speed tranny IIRC , my then young Son took it out sans permission and was nearly killed on it so I got ride of it the next day .
My Kawasaki W-650 isn’t , IMO , ‘ Vintage ‘ but , it’s a very good 1967 Bonniville , it vibrates about the same , makes the same noise as is as much fun as riding a new Bonnie was in ’67 .
They even copied the ‘ upholstered brick ‘ seat ~ after two hours one really needs to stop for the pain it induces .
I kept it after the accident and have most (I think) of the parts necessary to fix it , sadly I cannot ride much like I could before .
When Kawasaki first brought one over to ‘ test the waters ‘ I was the guy who rode it in the parking lot of a large vintage Moto meet & was written up by the Moto magazine who’d brought it ~ I really thought it’d take off and sell a lot of them , sadly it wasn’t to be .
As soon as the first ones arrived , I ran out and bought one .
My view is always ” Ride scared ~ it’s a good way to stay alive ” .
I’m interested in the apexing of corners discussion here , I always try to late apex , why would one want to short apex a curve ? .
-Nate
Why? A profound misunderstanding of what makes for efficient cornering, coupled with a dearth of experience — and aggravated, perhaps, by a conflation of the bike’s capabilities with one’s own skills.
Early in my riding career, at that dangerous point when confidence in my newfound bike control skills exceeded my experience in seeing the spectrum of things that can go wrong, I came around a blind corner to find a mattress covering my entire lane. I got slowed down enough so that when I rolled over the corner of the mattress, neither I nor the bike was scratched when I fell on it. Just a little pipeburn. For the past twenty-odd years I have visualized that mattress lying just beyond my line of sight, and I have found that as I have aged, I have lost that magic x-ray vision that allows younger dudes to see through those blind corners.
Is the Atom legal to be driven on the street?
As far as I know, the Ariel Atom is street legal in all 50 states and most countries around the world.
I did not know this. I thought it was in the track toy class like the KTM crossbow and such. My next wuestion then is how would it fare as a daily driver?
Absolutely lousy. The reason it’s legal is it has all the lights and ‘hardness’ requirements for street driving, but it doesn’t have any body panels to speak of or, IIRC, a windshield. In the wet or at night when bugs are attracted to your headlights, you will get a face full. It is pretty much a toy car for things like weekend cruising and track-day fun, but unless you live in the desert, a daily driver it is not.
I was an insurance adjuster for seven years. Not once did I settle a claim involving a rear-end collision where the leading vehicle was found to be at fault. If you collide with something that is in front of you, then you caused the accident – period.
Of course, there may be exceptional circumstances, such as the case of the Quebecois driver who stopped her car to escort ducks off the road. But ask yourself this: Would the case be settled differently if the driver had stopped for an obstruction in the roadway, and then been rammed by a transport truck rather than a motorcycle?
In order to work, the law should be simple to interpret and simple to apply. If you’re driving a vehicle, whether it be a bicycle or a bus, you are obligated to control it in such a way that you can stop in the event hazards occur ahead of you. No tailgating. No speeding. No excuses.
“If you collide with something that is in front of you, then you caused the accident – period.”
If a car veers into another lane, cuts off another vehicle and is struck from behind, then it would not be the fault of the striking vehicle.
I once rear-ended a car and was not at fault — the vehicle ahead of me was reversing around a blind curve. In that case, the other vehicle was the striking vehicle.
As I said, there are exceptional circumstances. But I also told the truth: in my experience, rear-enders are always settled in favour of the leading vehicle. I’m also firm in my opinion that laws needs to be simple to be enforceable. If they are complex, then people will be introduce extraneous factors to the argument to win their case. As an adjuster, I grew bored listening to (stupid) people talk about everything BUT the law as it is written.
Well hell, if an insurance company says it it must be true. What a crock of $ H it. Thats right CROCK OF SH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
15 second mark. The motorcycle rider has to lift his left leg up at a 90 degree angle to maintain control. Not a skilled rider. Putting others in danger.
700 horsepower in a Hellcat. Too much power for the average driver to control. Putting others in danger. An unskilled biker has an excellent chance of putting themself in the grave. Many an unskilled driver has put the most skilled biker in the grave and faced minimal consequences for doing so. Get off your high horse.
So much A$$hattery in these posts.
And as to wh is at fault, Obama, the AR-15, and the Internets baby…YEAH….YEAH!!!!!
Thirty plus years on two wheels, 500,000+ miles. I see a whole lot of aggravating factors here, the least of which is the BMW. I have been amazed at the increased level of asshattery coincident with the advent of cheap mobile cameras. Rest assured that rider is anything but experienced. His lines are wrong, his braking is wrong, and his body positioning is more influenced by watching (and misinterpreting) MotoGP videos than any understanding of weight transfer in cornering–and I suspect his previous bike, if any, was a cruiser given the way he is waving his knees in the breeze. The reaction response after he saw the BMW would tend to remove any lingering benefit of the doubt. His line carried him past the car despite his near lowside; he probably had no idea how he got out of that alive. Add an oncoming car and this would have looked like a Russian dashcam video. His biggest problem is that he is more concerned about the camera behind him than the road in front of him. I ride with a small number of quick, safe street riders who don’t tolerate idiots. We’d have found an excuse to ditch this guy within the first ten minutes.