Volkswagen’s new 6.0-liter W12 TSI made its global debut at the 36th International Vienna Motor Symposium last Friday.
The next-gen W12 combines Audi’s FSI direct injection and Bentley’s TMPI multi-point injection systems together, and is augmented by a pair of twin-scroll turbochargers, an oil circuit for off-road applications, APS-coated cylinders, active engine mounts with hydraulic basic damping, cooling with integrated temperature management, cylinder deactivation, and start-stop.
Power output for the W12 comes to 600 horses and 664 lb-ft of torque, slotting between the mills used by the Bentley Continental GT W12 and GT Speed on the power scale.
Depending on the application, the new engine could move a vehicle from nil to 62 mph in under four seconds, with top speeds reaching 186 mph.
[Photo credit: Volkswagen]
Weight?
My what a big piston you have. Anyway, with all the tech baked in is this suppose to get the MPG of an 8 cylinder with the power of a NA 12.
Naw, that’s only half a liter per piston!
Yyyyyup- no different than a 2 liter four cylinder, or a 4 liter V8.
Off road applications?
You mean for the Bentley SUV that will be even less likely to go off road than the typical poser-mobile?
Many “poser mobiles ” in the U.S., such as the Toyota Landcruiser are taken off road outside the U.S.and they are very effective as Off Road vehicles
Which has f-all to do with the *Bentley*, however.
(Plus the J70 LandCruiser with worldwide still-on-sale offorad chops is not the J200 “poser” the US gets.
Not that the J200 can’t handle some dirt, but … not the same car, not remotely.)
@Sigvald,
I am not talking about the L70′ ,but the J200 with a 4.5 Diesel or the 5.7 yes they do go Off Road in the Gulf States and here
“even less likely to go off road than the typical poser-mobile?”
I suppose that one of the big markets for this thing will be in Gulf oil states, so we are bound to see it surfing sand dunes on Youtube.
“an oil circuit for off-road applications, APS-coated cylinders, active engine ” a 600hp, 664lbs ft SUV? This is not going into the Golf
While it was nothing more than a marketing gimmick for dub fans, they did something similar to that in the MkV Golf.
Well, if a G63 or Cayenne Turbo S isn’t powerful enough for you…
(Aside – I did a Google search for “most powerful SUV” to see if I was missing a contender there, and I got a paid hit for the CX-5 at the top.
That was … *not effective*, Mazda.)
“That was … *not effective*, Mazda.”
((chortle)) zoom, zoom!
Something something Amati W12 engine swap…
Displacement, not cylinders create excitement, it would also give decent HP numbers. We’ve been stuck in this 500-600 max HP range for too long now, it’s time to stop thumbing around and move on up.
I’d rather a 8-liter 4 cylinder than a 5-liter 8 cylinder
I’d love to see a 3.0-liter V10 in a Formula 1 car again but that isn’t happening.
I think Red Bull would love that, too.
The H1 is a 6.6L engine with no excitement. Engine dynamics are more complicated than displacement.
8 liter four cylinder? Hang onto your fillings, it would shake more than all the Harleys in Daytona Beach during Bike Week.
Ehh, I was being facetious, it’s just disappointing for me to see all that engineering go into building an engine that, for one, slots into an industry that (I’m pretty sure) another company has similar displacement and cyclinder count. And more importantly, is suppose to represent a luxury option, which is hard when it compares to the poverty spec 4 cylinders when cylinder to liter is considered.
VWs 2.0T is 210HP- 207 TQ
Fords 2.0T is 240 HP – 270 TQ (twin turbo?)
Either way, it appears engine tech is coming out of the 4 cylinders and going into the 12, which imo is unacceptable.
Edit: Yep; BMW, Mercedes, Jag, even Audi, have used 6.0 V12s, so what does VW do? Copycat engine of course, because the world needs more 6.0L V12, that lack major mechanical difference other than DI from other iterations.
Excuse me, W12, which isn’t new in itself, but makes it a bit more complex, for, again, next to no appreciable gain over a similarly small V12, or a more appropriately sized V8.
Well, what are you going to do? Volkswagen is gonna Volkswagen.
It’s a bigger issue for me when GM tries to do this kind of thing.
“It’s a bigger issue for me when GM tries to do this kind of thing.”
GM stopped doing this kind of thing after the 350 diesel and 4,6,8 caddies. Though I suppose one could argue with the failure rate and Mercedes like repair costs of the current cyclinder deactivation, they’re at it again.
Edit: Though I suppose Northstar could also count, while we’re on it.
In the Golf R, VW has a 2.0T with 292hp and 280 TQ
Considering the balancing issues of 4s at that size, you would not, in fact, actually prefer that I think.
Now, an 8 liter *6*…
Yes, there’s a reason that nearly every medium and heavy truck in North America has an inline six.
Without doing the math, I think a .020 overbore on a GMC 478 will get you up to 8L.
I feel like GMC made a 501 cubic inch six, but maybe that was a V6.
There was a 401 V6.
“I’d rather a 8-liter 4 cylinder than a 5-liter 8 cylinder”
Admit it, you want to fondle the gigantic balance shafts an 8 litre 4 cylinder would need to have any semblance of smoothness. That’s it, isn’t it?
…Maybe
So, Top-of-the-line Bentley’s, A8’s and the Phaeton? How many of these engines are they planning to manufacture – 17?
Well, they sell about 6k A8s in the US every year, not to mention their EU sales.
So, probably more than 17, though I can’t imagine the take rate will be *high*.
The fact that VW can still justify this engine is astounding.
Take the suspect reputation of VW’s gas engines (although I can’t speak directly for the VR6 line), throw some turbos on it, and of course let’s multiply all that by 2.
Used car values of W-engined VWs continue to plummet.
The cost is probably being amortized over several models, and a couple generations of those models. Future proofing, in a way, by building a really strong foundation, and not having to tweak it a lot over a period of time.
All the modern tech, like FSI, turbos, and cylinder deactivation, lets them meet their power and efficiency goals, as well as giving them a lot of room to simply turn up the boost each year, or whenever they want to sell a high-margin special edition…speaking of which, the thing that justifies these engines is that the cars they’ll end up in, will have the profit margins to support this engine’s existence.
The one I’m *really* surprised about, is the BMW V12, since they’re made, and only really go into a maybe two models of car.
The resale values are secondary, since they’ve already made the money.
Right, I’m not trying to relate used car values to the business plan in any way.
But this is a seriously low-volume engine for a high-volume car company, and putting this thing in a few Bentleys and Phaetons is probably not an impressive file at the accounting department.
They’re banking on high-margin models selling to customers that are sensitive to cylinder count. It may be the case, but who knows for how long?
Timing belt or chain? It matters when its time for servicing. A $1-2k service bill vs several thousand.
“It matters when its time for servicing.”
I’ve never heard of a timing chain with a service or inspection interval like on a timing belt. If a timing chain requires work during the life of the vehicle then I would consider that a mechanical failure/repair situation not “servicing”.
Because this is a VW W12, it probably has two timing belts AND a timing chain.
Apparently the Audi V8 is known for chewing up chain tensioners. The lifespan of a timing chain on a average vehicle is at least 200k. Today I saw a late model Town Car 4.6 having a replacement installed at 300k.
Probably timing chains, as the base architecture for the W engines most often look like the timing-chain’d VR6. The cars that this motor will end up in, will not be cars where the owners will be very sensitive to the cost of service.
If you can afford the car this engine goes into, the cost to replace a timing belt or chain is of little concern.
This engine reminds me of those great radial engines, before they became antiques.
+1 Exactly!
Let’s install a Pratt & Whitney Wasp Major engine instead.
From Wikipedia:
“Although mechanically reliable in flight, it developed an unenviable reputation for in-flight fires, particularly in its Boeing Stratocruiser application, and in addition the Wasp Major was maintenance-intensive. Improper starting technique could foul all 56 spark plugs”
Stuff that bad boy into a GTI, slap $10K onto the sticker, and sit back and watch a Hellcat-style reaction.
Did I mention an 8-speed stick?
VW is on the cusp of a real game changer. Think they will see it?
8-speed stick… Only if it’s a split-shift, mwuahahahaha! And this engine in a GTI, they should have a “Quebec Special Edition” with heads based on the 8V 115hp 2.0. Mwuahahahaha again!
This smells of the next VW Qauntum lump to soon refail in the market. This has the scent of Piech in it.
The real news was no included in this article. VW introduced a 1.0L what puts out a 268HP.
Image if they put that much effort into improving quality and understanding the American market.
I have several questions……
Timing belt, timing chain, maintenance intervals: do the buyers/leasee of the vehicle in question keep the car long enough to have that concern? Seems like that is the second owners problem.
A comment was made: essentially indicating people care about cylinder count, seemingly above 8? I have never met anyone who was insistent they have a v12 or w12. I can’t say that I have ever met anyone who owned a carwith greater than 10 cylinders: Viper. I know a bunch with the v10 ford buts suspect this mill in the article will not find its way into a 1 ton anything. I could be wrong though.
This seems like an awful lot of engineering and expense to produce 600 hp from a really complicated mill. 600 hp is really not that hard to produce anymore with 8 or more, I suppose, Pistons. I would think the buyer for the car this will go into would have less forgiveness for temperamental quirkiness than say someone like myself who still considers a GM v8 to be the best available option for reliable HP.
Help me understand what question this motor answers.
Its called bragging rights.
You are most likely correct. I guess I am too much of a simpleton.
Piston envy