The Oldsmobile Toronado started out as a big sporty car, morphed into an Eldorado-styled full-on luxury boat, then spent its twilight years getting progressively smaller and less opulent. Every Toronado ever made had front-wheel-drive and two doors, and every one had at least some Eldorado DNA in its bloodstream.
Here’s a downsized-but-still-substantial third-generation Toronado I found at a self-service yard in Phoenix, while I was in Arizona to work at the Arizona D-Bags 24 Hours of LeMons.
As you might expect with a desert car like this, there’s not a speck of rust anywhere. There is, however, much evidence of drivers banging into things with the car.
The Oldsmobile rocket emblem, which didn’t feel so futuristic by 1983, may be found in many places on this car. Opera lights on a vinyl landau roof!
This winged-T emblem is also pretty snazzy.
The final owner hoped to sell the car for a bit more than the junkyard offers, which meant it was likely a runner when it took that final tow-truck ride. It’s hard to compete with 14-year-old Buick LeSabres and Chrysler Sebrings in the market for sub-$1,000 battered-but-functional semi-luxury cars when you’re trying to move a 33-year-old Olds.
Horsepower for the 1983 307-cubic-inch Olds V8 in this car was rated at 140, or the same as the Nissan Sentra SE-R offered just eight years later.
The Unified Power Package — the front-wheel-drive hardware that let GM fit a big longitudinally-mounted V8, a transmission, a differential, and axles in such a confined space — was an engineering masterpiece that doesn’t get the acknowledgement it deserves. The UPP, which featured silent chain drive, rarely malfunctioned, even when installed in 128 mph front-drive motorhomes.
This car had an MSRP of $15,327 in 1983, which was less than half the price of a new Mercedes-Benz 300CD coupe … but a new ’83 Nissan Maxima — arguably more luxurious and definitely more fuel-efficient — cost just $11,049.
[Images: © 2016 Murilee Martin/The Truth About Cars]
Still a fine looking old car.
Eldorado had the DNA from the Oldsmobile Toronado as the Toronado was introduced for 1966 with the Eldorado following in 1967, except with the Cadillac 429 V8 (then the 472 for 1968).
I have three Toronados and a 1976 GMC Motorhome, all with the Olds 455. If you get 9 MPG there is something wrong; if you get 11 MPG there is something wrong – you should always get 10 MPG.
I laugh at all the ugly imports sliding around the freeways here in southern California.
The rule of the road out here is stay away from Corolla, Sentra and Civic drivers. They are all ensconced in their little worlds of road blocking. When the lowlifes graduate to Camry, Altima and Accord they are just becoming unaware-drivers with slightly bigger road blockers.
Big Block 455s rule!
Architect Nick Stevenson hasn’t got time to waste. When he’s got to meet a new client on the other side of the lake, he needs a car that will get him there quickly and safely, with dignity and elegance.
The front-wheel drive traction of the new Toronado Brougham assures Nick will be on time for the meeting, while the Delco sound system soothes his nerves during the drive through all four premium speakers. The Tempmatic climate control keeps it cool around the collar, without disturbing feathered hair.
The Toronado Brougham, because nobody ever aspired to an Oriental sedan.
I wonder what the photographer’s directions to the model were… “OK, I need you to impatiently walk over to the car. Pretend it’s a 300D or a 928.”
It’s all perfectly set. House, brown. Car, brown. Suit, brown!
“Hello Siri, please summon my Tesla.”
Yet again another 30+ year old American automobile with a velour interior that looks to be in good shape.
Why oh why won’t manufacturers return to making seating that wears this well? Could it be that consumers are not as smart as we think?
Why would the car companies want to make cars with seating materials that last 30 years? Fact is that the average NEW car buyer will only keep their car for about 4 years, and they will get rid of the car for reasons that have nothing to do with reliability or fear impending repairs. The car companies are only interested in the satisfaction of new car buyers. Why would they care about the second or third owner of their cars.
“Why would they care about the second or third owner of their cars.”
For resale. It is based at least partially on the expected future quality of the vehicle. Many new car buyers would prefer to minimize depreciation (especially if they are trading in in 5 years) and high resale can allow sweetheart lease deals for the manufacturer.
I’d also argue that the ratty reputation of second or third hand Pontiacs and Cadillacs did those brands no favors when people were shopping for new cars.
GM resale has generally been terrible in the past fifteen years. The truck lines and oddball stuff have generally been the only exceptions.
Resale is mostly about the bling factor. Recently I was in Irvington, NJ for work reasons. Irvington is a hole, worse than Newark in my opinion. Very ratty, run down houses, almost everyone of those houses had a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus parked in front, most in pretty good shape. I’ll bet most were bought used. Why did those people choose those makes? Because of the perceived quality and reliability? BTW, I’ll bet you BMW and Mercedes sales are headed for a crash soon. Once ghetto ‘hoods are full of late model cars like that, the rich will go looking for something else. It’s exactly what happened to Cadillac and Lincoln. Once the ‘hood was full of used Lincolns and Cadillacs, no one with brains or real money wanted to be associated with those makes.
The prevalence of thrashed out E36 and E46 3-series in my neck of the woods doesn’t seem to discourage anyone from buying/leasing an F30, including myself.
I remember reading an essay in one of my car magazines a couple years ago about 10 year old luxury cars. The author’s premise was that people care about NEW cars (Hey Bob, you just got a brand new Bimmer? Sweeeeet!) and OLD cars (Hey Bob, you just fully restored a ’79 E21? That’s awesome, I remember how cool those were back in the day and how much I wanted one.). 10 year old luxury cars? People with real money think you’re a poser, and people of the working class think you’re a poser who isn’t very smart and should buy something more reliable, if they think about you at all. The author had a 10 year old BMW that he wouldn’t take out of town for fear it would break down. Always rented a car if he had to range far from home.
Sounds a little racist….
The difference between the best resale and the worst resale in any given class of cars is a few percent up to MAYBE ten percent if you go by ATP and not MSRP. Who cares.
And at that, once you get past the second owner condition trumps just about everything.
“Why would they care about the second or third owner of their cars.”
Remarketing… and the factory generally doesn’t care about the third owner or beyond.
Well velour is made fun of now – but agreed that so many of these malaise era sleds with velour have held up stunningly well. I mean that interior sat in the desert sun and didn’t get a whole lot of love and well…just look at it.
It is a choice. My 13 year old BMW with Black Seats, not garaged, has almost perfect black cloth microfiber seating-even under the back glass, in full sunlight.
There is a small bit of wear on the driver’s seat after 300k…..
Crappy cloth seats are a choice. I’d rather cloth than leather universally, but unfortunately, “leather = luxury” is firmly ingrained in the US of A mindset.
Planned obsolescence !
You can swap seats out, re-upholster them, or just get some covers. Little point in long lasting seats when the car around it falls apart. These Toros and their siblings loved to loose that plastic “filler” between the car and their bumpers, every single one I’ve ever seen, that trim will be gone.
That aside, these are okay if primitive cars I suppose, you could get the Buick variant with a Turbo 6 I think.
It’s not that the seat material in today’s car’s doesn’t last it’s just made of a very harsh cheap feeling material that doesn’t in any way feel luxurious or pleasant and is very hard to clean in light gray or tan.
My 2001 Trooper’s cloth seats have worn exceedingly well – no sign of wear-through in 250k miles.
Real leg room for a FWD car. We have regressed into ever decreasing leg space with big, useless consoles. I liked the Buick version of this as it was a little more curvy. The Olds is a bit boxy but still has nice lines. If memory serves, these came with air ride suspension and rode very nicely when it worked.
@Arthur D- I agree, love these velour interiors and the colors they came in.
Gm was still chasing the WWII gen with cars like this. It was GM’s last hurrah.
So true! I recall a distant elderly cousin who owned a ’71 Toronado followed by a down-sized ’81 Toronado. He and his wife were both WWII veterans. After the war they lived in a little cracker-box house that they bought under the G.I. bill. (The ’71 Toronado seemed almost as big as the house.)
The wife worked as a nurse and the cousin worked as a janitor in some federal building. They had one kid, who they put through college, and when they retired they both had fairly good pensions. They both lived into their 90s and the ’81 Toronado was their last car. They lived the American dream.
My first car was a ’67 toronado that spent most of the time we shared in my parents’ yard. Severe frame rot took it eventually (thats what happens to everything more or less in Vermont, several of my childhood cars succumbed to the same fate). I sold it on ebay for a few dollars under what I paid for it to a guy in the carolinas who was restoring one, hopefully many of its parts live on.
While stationed in Germany ’72-’80 I bought a new (1976-built) 1977 Toronado with financing through Pentagon Federal Credit Union. It was truly a grand car. Especially that 455! Make room Esso, here I come!
Four kiddies in the back seat, mom in the front passenger bucket, and me behind the wheel.
We saw a lot of Europe in that car, drawing looks of admiration and stares of disgust in equal measure.
The ’83 in this article is not in the same league as those of the mid-seventies.
The ’76 Eldo was undoubtedly the King of the Road, and much aspired to, but the ’77 Toro was just as good IMO, and cost quite a bit less. A friend of mine named Gabe had an Eldo Convertible and it was striking.
I have zero experience with the Riviera primarily because in those days anything Buick was for old fogies.
Was there some kind of early ABS in the rear axle cause of all that snout weight?
Those old school Toros and Eldos (bias ply tire era) were really tough on front rubber. Even with frequent rotation they used up a set really quickly if you drove hard.
Broughamtastic.
I owned an ’85 that looked almost nothing like the ’83 and was a remarkably capable car in many ways, though suffered two serious engineering issues which eventually killed it. I loved that car with its Corvette-inspired rear suspension but the engine was seriously problematical. Both strong and economical (for what it was) the 3.8L V6 made it quick and fun to drive. However, under heavy acceleration the wiring harness to a sensor on the top of the engine consistently broke the sensor’s contact–on an average of one every six months. It took four different warranty repairs with me telling them every time they needed to add at least three inches to the wire before that issue was resolved… by adding four inches.
But the circumstance that ultimately killed that engine was a nylon (Nylon? Really?) timing gear that flat-out shredded at roughly the 75,000 mile mark. The damage caused ultimately required the replacement of the engine as the less-expensive fix after which I traded the car for a ’96 Camaro (again with a 3.8V6) that ran trouble-free for over 160,000 miles.
Yea, losing the nylon timing gear teeth was one of the many big improvements to the old 3.8L that the 3800 brought about.
The ’85 was the exact same car as the ’83. In fact, it was the last year of that body style. The ’86 was dramatically smaller and on a newer platform. Sales plummeted by 60 percent in ’86. People didn’t want to pay more for less. It was also cheaply built. Sad to see such a grand car become like a Grand Am.
If it was like my 72 Chevy 350 pickup, it was a die cast aluminum cam gear with nylon overmolding on the teeth. Quiet but not long lived. On the pickup you could loosen the oil pan bolts (required to then remove the timing chain cover) and swap out in-chassis. One of those “low cost, high labor content” jobs.
Perhps, indi, but once that gear shredded, the valves did their thing and resulted in a higher cost to repair than a replacement. Either way, I got rid of the car as soon as the new engine was in it.
When I was younger I recall reading websites where individuals were doing all sorts of engine upgrades to these E-bodies to mitigate problems with the 4100 or 307 (the latter simply being a snooze-fest). Shame these are just so old now they aren’t worth the time and energy in “fixing”.
I found a 455 powered 80-85 Seville on eBay, now THAT is an upgrade.
Link?
Generally the Olds 403 and 350 were the engines of choice in the ones I remember.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/457522394307120?view=permalink&id=1046875725371781
Unfortunately it wasn’t on eBay but I still have the Facebook link.
28-Cars-Later,
Damn, you’re good! The Olds 403 and 350 WERE the engines of choice!
And the Olds 455 was preferred over the Chevy 454.
Some had to do with the location of the distributor, at the back of the block in the Olds, shielded from water spray.
But the Big Daddy of them all was the Caddy 500, some say the best-behaving Big Block ever made.
Ah, but that was in a different time, a different place, in a universe far, far away.
(It’s hard to get excited about today’s heavy-breathing squirrel engines.)
Funny, I find it hard to get excited about ancient 400-500ci lumps that got 9mpg and could barely wheeze out of their own way. Give me a good 2.0T any day at 30+ mpgs *and* 0-60 <6 seconds.
The good old days are right now, kiddies.
Krhodes1, it all depends on in what era someone grew up in. My era was my dad’s 426 Hemi dragster of the late fifties, early sixties. That was my teething ring.
And today there are no doubt 2.0T dragsters that will leave that old Hemi heap in the dust. Certainly there were very few muscle cars that were as fast as a BMW 228i, and only the factory almost-racecars were as fast as my M235i. And neither of those cars are all that fast by modern standards.
As I keep saying, the good old days are NOW.
I’m sure you aren’t biased with “328i” in your profile picture…
You can keep your 4 cylinder BMW, to me 4 cylinders are for poor people and nobody ever aspired to a 4 cylinder.
Lotus Elise
Lotus Esprit Turbo
BMW 428 GranCoupe
MB C300
Audi A4
Honda S2000
Volvo XC90 and V90
VW GTI
All 4 cylinder cars to which I aspire. I guess in NoGoYo’s world, that makes me a poor person and a nobody.
I can live with that.
That post was more than a little sarcasm, though…428? C300? A4? Surely you can think a little bigger!
Setting the bar low…
I officially change my stance to “4 cylinders are for economy cars” because that’s more what I meant.
@NoYoGo
Actually, I don’t own a 4-cyl BMW. I have one with an N52 (328i) and one with an N55 (M235i), both 3.0L sixes, one with turbo, one without. But I wish I could have had the N20 turbo 4 in my 328! because it is the better engine in every way but sound. More powerful AND more efficient is a nice thing.
The very BEST replacement for displacement is a turbocharger.
I’d choose CPO -35/40i over -28i every time.
Not a small car guy, not a small engine guy. Plus I bet that turbo inline six is quite fun…
krhodes1, what do they use these days at NASCAR, Daytona and other raceways?
I have not kept up, so I don’t know.
Whatever lump the circus rules say they have to use, pushrods, carbs and all. Real racing uses real engines, which are mostly small and turbocharged these days.
And what cylinder count has to do with anything is beyond me. The most powerful Formula 1 engines of all were turbo 4s back in the ’80s.
There is nothing high-revving or high stress about a modern 2.0L Turbo 4 that makes 250+ lb-ft right off idle. I own a 4.6l V8, it makes the same power as a BMW N20 2.0T and uses better than twice the fuel.
You people are dinosaurs. And V8s are going extinct. Good riddance.
Gentlemen, isn’t the country large enough for people that like naturally aspirated V6s or V8 and for people that prefer the turbo-4 or 6?
It’s our own money after all.
ajla, like I wrote earlier, it’s related to what an individual grew up with. I grew up with Heavy Metal Big Displacement Big Bores.
I insist on the largest normally aspirated V8 I can find and I am totally satisfied with that magnificent Toyota all-aluminum, 32-valve, DOHC 5.7L V8, found in our 2015 Sequoia and my 2016 Tundra.
Love it! Gives me goosebumps. The Rolex of mass-produced V8 engines.
The 2.5L 24-valve V6 in my 1989 Camry is also more than adequate for that small sedan, as is the 3.5L in the 2008 Highlander. I would not go any smaller, like to 4-cyl.
But the VVT 295-hp Pentastar V6 that came with our 2012 Grand Cherokee is mighty slim pickin’s for a 4×4 SUV of that weight and girth. In mountain country that tranny is as busy as a one-armed wallpaper hanger.
A much better match is the 6.4L that came with the SRT8 my son gave to his daughter.
I never cared for the nervous-nellie high-revving small-displacement engines of the Euro cars when I was in Europe, and I never warmed up to the more refined rice-grinders.
Nevertheless, here they are, and some people like them, as if they have a choice with CAFE and EPA mandates dumbing down engine displacement to save the environment.
A 455 powered Seville would be a real adventure in front-heavy handling and torque steer.
You’d think so, but the 455 had the same external dimensions as the Olds 350 and likely a very similar weight.
As for torque steer…yeah, it’s gotta be a monster.
Ate Up With Motor has two fascinating articles on the Unitized Power Package (not “Unified”; Murilee has a typo above). Purportedly, GM’s engineers did a masterful job eliminating torque steer via equal-length half-shafts and carefully chosen steering geometry.
Disclaimer: I’ve never driven an E-body, and it’s been 30 years at this point since I’ve ridden in a UPP-equipped car. My recollection is that you could smoke the front tires, which could result in some lateral sliding; however, that’s not the same phenomenon as torque steer. It’s more akin to fishtailing, only at the front end. My guess is that something like a Speed3 actually has worse torque steer.
That $15k MSRP is about $36k today, the price of a moderately-loaded Camry. Not bad, really.
Agreed.
Nice price.
As many of you know, I’m more partial to the Buick Riviera variant, but the Oldsmobile certainly has its own cool, confident swag about it.
The longitude-FWD drivetrain…was weird. Especially because, prior to this generation (which debuted in 1979, IIRC), the Eldorado and Toronado were longitude-FWD and the Riviera was longitude-RWD, even though both were on the same platform.
I liked the Caliente Toronado because it said Caliente on it. I showed it to my Mexican friend via text, and said “Your parents would love this!”
“Oh, that’s racist!”
Bahahaha
Not to mention the later Toronado Troféo (complete with a commercial sang by Harry Belafonte’s kids), which was in the same vein as the Chevy “Eurosport” models and came about when Detroit realized it was losing its traditional customer base to perceived better options from Europe.
I seem to recall seeing an old Caribbean theme commercial for the Eldorado or Toronado from the late 80s. Made me do a WTH moment.
Edit: Same thing you meant! HAHAHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAD0R-NyKGk
youtube.com/watch?v=jdZPvVSmGqA
Yep, that’s the one, guys.
The perception of better European options wasn’t just perception. My dad had an ’80 Eldorado, which looked great but was pretty much junk.
The Eldo got traded on an ’81 BMW 733i and Dad never bought another Caddy. GM did an amazing job destroying that brand.
That was before my time, but you’re not wrong.
Those cars did drive nice
Always loved the looks of this and the Riv and Eldo.
Nothing says luxury like opera lights……..with exposed screws.
Call me stupid. Jack has.
I like cloth seats. Warm in the winter. Cool in the summer.
Leather is hot in summer. Cold in winter.
+1
and you slide around less during spirited driving.
You can fix that with a properly bolstered leather seat, which is much more common nowadays than 20 years ago. If your seat is fully flat, you shouldn’t be doing spirited driving in said motorcar!
Are you telling me that I should give up my dreams of using my 1986 Dodge D250 as a sports car?
No never, the dream must live on.
Oh you can, just pop in some Recaros.
Cool. After work, I’ll go to AutoZone and get all of their go-fast stuff. How many Ventiports should I add? Is six per side enough?
*Everybody* knows that 9 per side is the accepted minimum. And one of them needs to look like it was stolen off of a 2007-2014 Escalade. Geez, don’t be so uncouth, matador :P
And, you don’t have to care for cloth seating like you do leather. The cloth bucket seats in our 2000 K3500 are some of the best seats I’ve had.
I go the other way with this. Cloth seating ends up looking worse because you can’t wipe it down if something gets on it. Plus it’s constantly collecting hair/lint/fuzzies/crumbs. Things which brush right off of leather.
Treat your leather to some conditioning twice a year (or pay someone), and you’re fine*.
*Does not apply to cars which live outside in hot places.
Good cloth, cleaned gently with soft brushes and gentle cleaner, will outlast leather every time. Leather cracks, flakes, and wears through easier than cloth, and conditioning can make that worse instead of better if you’re not really careful about cleaning first. I really wanted a cloth-seated Legend, because all of the seats in them looked brand new, but none of the ones with cloth I saw were the right car for me.
Or get fake leather, like the black Vtex leatherette in my Golf SportWagen, which neither wears like leather nor stains like cloth. I think the color is even molded in, so you don’t have to worry about damaging it if you’re too aggressive with cleaning.
Redapple:
Not if you have heated and cooled seats…. I’ll take leather :=)
The Buick Riviera was my favorite in this body style. Dealer mark up ruled back then. Today GM does not have a lot of Mark-up
Mine, too. My grandma had a 1985 Riviera with the V8, which I called “The Brown Car”.
The T-Type Riv with the blown 3.8 was sublime.
It’s a shame that an updated Unified Power Package didn’t carry over to the downsized ’85 E cars, or the H/C cars for that matter. At least on the V8 Cadillac versions, as a point of distinction.
Of course, they still would have styled the Toronado to look like a Calais with a hundred extra pounds of tinsel, so I doubt it would have mattered much.
It is to believe that GM could build a great big front wheel drive product like these yet could never do anything with their downsized models starting with the X-Cars all the way through to today. Today they are cramped products with indifferent styling. About the only improvement in today’s Total Recall Motors products is that you can’t hear the car disintegrate while in your driveway. It takes a bit longer now and it is silent.
These drove pretty smooth and nice with the Olds 307 under hood, better still if you got a 1979 or 80 with the Rocket 350. The cheap $27.00 suspension upgrade was worth every penny and the Buick Riviera version with the turbo 3.8 with SFI and distrubutor-less ignition for 1984/85 was the most entertaining in the T-Type cars. You could even upgrade to 4 wheel disk brakes.
The closest I ever got to one of these is my dads late 70’s GMC motorhome. His has the 455 Olds which I believe for the most part uses the same transmission/FWD set-up as what you find in these. Considering the mother home weighs 11,000 pounds and many use them to tow small the drivetrain must be fairly stout. Could be wrong about that, may be a beefier version.
Back in the late 80’s I owned a 1980 Olds Toronado diesel coupe. It was charcoal grey with a maroon velour interior which held up quite well. I bought it from the original owner for a mere $500 who had a new Goodwrench motor put in under warranty. It did have a very good aftermarket fuel/water separator which I think kept it running well. I got a couple of fairly reliable years out of it (28 MPG highway!) with normal maintenance Then around 100k it starring making wretched sounds and blew up. I thought about buying a 307,350 or 403 and drop it in but I figured I’d cut my losses and sold it to a E-body aficionado. Even though I had problems with the ill-fated diesel the E-body was a comfy ride and fairly well put together, one of GM’s better designs. In the future I would consider an E-body, say Riviera convertible as a collector.
I used to not like these, now as I get older I find them kinda handsome!!!!
I remember someone putting up a photo of cars like these being used as airport tugs in the northwest somewhere.
A guy I went to High School with (1996) had an grey 85 Toronado. Paint was faded but the interior was still immaculate. He gave me a ride home from school once & I remember how good the factory stereo sounded as he blasted Tool on the 8-speaker sound system.
Senior year he sold it for a 1982 Delta 88 Coupe. He said it had less miles but in my eyes it was too “grampa-ish” for an 18 year-old.