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Colin Chapman is given credit to an infamous line overused by today’s automotive cognoscenti: Simplify, then add lightness.
We’ve applied Mr. Chapman’s philosophy to our commenting policy, which will now be rigorously enforced.
These are TTAC’s Six Rules of Civility.
The rules are simple and they come without explanation. Why? Because the B&B is smart, and also because you should always operate well on the right side of the rules. Pushing the boundaries of the rules and our patience will result in being removed from the conversation without warning or explanation. It is your responsibility to conduct yourself accordingly.
- No personal/ad hominem attacks.
- No racism, sexism, or bigotry.
- No spam/unwarranted self-promotion/advertising.
- No flaming/trolling.
- No political campaigning/hackery.
- TTAC reserves the right to take away commenting privileges for any reason, even those not listed in the guidelines. We provide the comment section as a service, not a right. Treat it as a privilege that we can remove at any time.
These rules are effective immediately without exception.
325 Comments on “Commenting Policy Updated: These are TTAC’s Six Rules of Civility...”
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does incorporating a Youtube account in your user name count as self promotion or advertising? If so, can an exception be made for BTSR? It wouldn’t be the same if he was renamed….seriously…
Happy to see some changes. Some posts seem to be made just to be spiteful or mean.
The ESRB was made mostly because of Sub Zero’s head rip fatality.
The mistake made was thinking the ESRB would make video games cleaner and “safer”.
Now we have DOOM and MK:X.
I’m Sub Zero.
Whether my name has @ or not, I’ve managed to grow so big at this point that it really doesn’t matter anymore.
Finish him!
“Now we have doom…” What is it…1997?
Now its ALL CAPS! 1997 was Doom. 2016 is DOOM! andand all the more appropriate for BTSR to mention.
Pokemon & Blink182 & Clinton & Doom & …
What year is it?
Next up: return of gold badges and two-tone.
Yessss.
We must have hit a time warp. On a positive note, maybe we can get new Seinfeld episodes?
I’d settle for a new season of Curbed (which is next year I think, and hopefully will take place back in LA.)
@Corey
Some things never go out of style.
I clutch at gold badges with all of my being!
“Next up: return of gold badges and two-tone.”
Badges? We don’t need no steeking badges!
(More classis cinema from Mr. Brooks.)
Did you mean gold badges or gold hats??
C-pillar badging is on the upswing now, and I’m very pleased.
I’d like some new Friends episodes!
Putting a link in your profile is far from active self promotion. It just communicates to others wherelse they may find your online persona.
If you are constantly posting within comments that you just posted this or that at another venue, we’ll take action.
This is almost like dancing!!!
“Diesel Emissions: EU Commission Has Known for Years about Manipulation”
The European Commission insists that it knew nothing about diesel emissions manipulations perpetrated by Volkswagen and other automobile manufacturers. Documents obtained by SPIEGEL ONLINE show otherwise.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/commission-has-long-known-of-diesel-emissions-manipulation-a-1103249.html
thronmark,
Spiegel is a right wing paper. I do believe that Speigel considers the EU as a waste.
So, the article doesn’t surprise me.
Oh, I do lean to the right.
Calling DER SPIEGEL a right-wing paper shows how poorly informed you are. It is not even a paper, it is a weekly magazine.
“Calling DER SPIEGEL a right-wing paper shows how poorly informed you are.”
:-D
Spiegel’s orientation is like BBC News without an imperial guilt/nostalgia obsession.
vaujot,
I thought Der Speigel has a relatively conservative articles? The ones I’ve read appear as such.
When I state “right wing” I’m not talking skinheads and the like. I don’t view them as left or right.
Kenmore,
BBC is different and government owned.
Let’s be serious — Flashpoint/BTSR makes an effort to get the first post on ***every single article*** so that his web domain gets first position every time.
And you can guess that he’s doing that much of the time by hitting the “submit comment” button before he has written a comment.
You are allowing this guy to trash your website on a daily basis, and you do absolutely nothing about it.
Im not sure that BTSR posting first on a WordPress forum helps him garner any additional rankings.
I look forward to seeing if BTSRs posts make it in first…. or not… then seeing who calls him out for missing the post. And some of his posts are quite germane.
He’s doing it in the hopes that the readers will see his domain.
In any case, it should be obvious that he is trying to commandeer this place. Which wouldn’t mean much, except that they’re allowing him to do it.
I wouldn’t underestimate the power of free advertising.
I accidentally brushed my finger across his “name” on my phone once, and was directed to his site.
So there’s that.
Maybe if he shortened his site link to “BTSR@YouTube”, it would be harder to touch it inadvertently when phone browsing…
HEY WAIT A MINUTE
never bothered to look him up on youtube. i dont care about big series truck reviews, so why bother?
I’m pretty sure I just did something about it.
I’ve been on and off this site so many times in the last decade or so I can’t remember all the comings and goings, but I swear that at one point BTSR was introduced as a columnist. If he was, it didn’t last long, but there are enough BTSR comments that searching would take more time that it is worth.
edit: Yup. https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/08/enter-the-bigtruck-srt-experience-reviewed/
It deosnt help that
He types like this
So that every post
Is taller and longer
Than neccesary
So that they gain
Extra screen time
I have watched his stuff
Adblock on naturally
Nothing special
The Hellcat video was
Just junk journalists
Wanting attention
Giving the video unwarranted
Views
+1. Yet the times they are a changin. Good news with new rules!
@golden2husky
+1
“No political campaigning/hackery.”
What exactly does that mean?
When I made “7 rules” and it went viral, I immediately realized I screwed up and should have had”10 commandments”.
George Carlin was right:
“10 sounds more official”.
Just don’t go past ten. When Woody Wilson brought his Fourteen Points to the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, the French representative said, “Fourteen! God himself has only ten!”
you probably had 15…but dropped the tablet coming down from the mountain, leaving you with at least some.
HA! Was waiting for someone to go there.
Classic cinema.
I consider it professional development just like required reading.
Watched it Friday.
The greatest joke of all time.
The “no political campaigning” rule is self-explanatory. There will be no campaigning allowed, official or unofficial, in the comments.
The “no political hackery” rule is more nuanced. I (and others who write for TTAC) welcome lively debate on the topic at hand. However, problems arise when a debate on the issues turns into “us vs. them” Crossfire-style theatre. Please debate the issues, but do so without vitriol.
Get caught up in the, Crossfire [style theatre].
youtube.com/watch?v=rCwn1NTK-50
Us (us, us, us, us) and them (them, them, them, them)
And after all we’re only ordinary men
Me
And you (you, you, you)
God only knows
It’s not what we would choose (choose, choose) to do (to do, to do)
We are all the same people
You
Me
THEM
The blue brothers nailed it.
I get the no outright campaigning thing. It’s the political hackery thing I don’t understand. I don’t understand the definition.
Wasn’t that long Chris Tonn published an article here that seemed to encourage the exact debate you say you don’t want.
“How Decision 2016 Will Affect the Auto Industry” it was called.
There’s a difference between political debate and partisan hackery. You can discuss the issues without getting ugly about it.
Ok. I think I understand.
As for the application of the rule… Do both parties get the hammer or only the one who instigated an argument?
If I’m attacked, it’s my inclination to fight back.
Not even for Richard Nixon?
I got don’t try to hack the servers of the RNC or DNC with your TTAC credentials
“We provide the comment section as a service, not a right. Treat it as a privilege that we can remove at any time.”
“These rules are effective immediately without exception.”
Thanks for making us feel like a wanted or valued part of the community.
this is no different from any other blog or message board out there.
These rules are made for the community, not in spite of it. However, if your community includes one that attacks others without provocation, trolling, or other such nonsense, that is not a community TTAC is willing to host.
How can there be a community if there is no commenting?
So, this is not a right, but the concept of the site itself. Who would stay here just for the features which are really found on every other car site.
Don’t get me wrong, any nasty unuseful commenting should be stopped, deleted and the writer banned…but I really haven’t seen any of this around here.
I’m pretty sure the comments here amount to much more than everything in violation of the first 5 rules. People on message/comment boards always seem to forget that they are not democracies…. the admin’s say is final, and whoever doesn’t like it can leave.
I think narrowing the focus of discussion here to cars and the auto business is the right move. If I want unwarranted snark I can go to Youtube or a local news channel comment section.
“the admin’s say is final, and whoever doesn’t like it can leave”
Fair enough. Maybe my increased productivity at work will let me buy a new SS next year.
Unless productivity is linked to pay, probably not.
TTAC will continue to welcome off-topic conversation, but it won’t host off-topic vitriol. That’s the difference. I don’t think we want this place to be “just about cars” because the auto business is so intertwined with many other things. To talk about the automotive industry as if it exists in a bubble means to be ignorant to all the things that affect it and that it affects in return.
“How can there be a community if there is no commenting?”
We aren’t taking away commenting. The sixth rule states we can and will take away someone’s commenting privileges if they are constantly flirting with the rules or other nonsense not defined in the guidelines. That’s it.
“We provide the comment section as a service, not a right.”
This is the line I was referring to, Mark.
I see it differently.
I see TTAC as nothing if not the community. Without the posters, to me, TTAC be nothing more than a site where writers write.
There are way to many writers, especially auto writers.
No, what make this site special to me IS the comments. Although I do get my butt handed to me many times from the likes Of VoGo and others, it is what makes the site special.
These posters are special and have seen me fail for a few years. I see friends, although we really disagree. Many times.
TrailerTrash is bashed and many times rightfully so. Like almost all my earlier thoughts…I wish I could unsend and correct or change.
This is a good reason I never had a tattoo!!!!
Without the comments here…there is no TTC.
But again…I accept and understand your editors long knife being at the ready and respect your obligation to step in and be the adult.
@TrailerTrash nobody is taking comments away. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
Trailer Trash: a certain frequent and um, rapid commenter wrote recently that those of us on the left end of the political spectrum should be ‘purged’. That was the point where I considered sunsetting my participation in the TTAC community. As it stands I’ll stay and see if this armistice is an Arab Spring or a Marshall Plan in how it develops.
Ooooh! If only purging you leftist would be so easy!!!
(smiley face)
If you weren’t here we’d have to invent you.
“That was the point where I considered sunsetting my participation in the TTAC community.”
Things are going to get EXTREMELY ugly between now and November.
You should definitely continue with that sunset move.
Are you advocating for someone not to be here? You’re really helping out.
“Things are going to get EXTREMELY ugly between now and November.” I think you are right, BTSR, and it scares me.
Until recently, I’d been looking forward to the coming week in Cleveland with a “Get your popcorn ready” attitude. But now I dread it.
Too much bad news from Baton Rouge (twice), St. Paul, Dallas, and so many communities on edge. And that’s just domestically. I notice that the President is being even more guarded than usual in his comments, so as not to give anyone an excuse for further violence.
A lot of people call for unity. I’m not convinced that’s a realistic goal right now. Too many people are dug into their side, and aren’t willing to “walk in another’s shoes.” I just hope we can agree to disagree respectfully and without further bloodshed.
I felt like a lonely voice when I called BTSR out on that comment. I’m glad to see that someone else noticed.
OBEY! Common scum.
Thank you, Mark,
These rules make sense and – along with appointing Kyree and Adam – will restore some decorum and order to TTAC. Otherwise, I was this close to calling it quits here.
Sonuvagun. You came that close to greatness, Mark Stevenson!
Likewise. And nicely put.
its funny…
when i was on the newsgroup (memba those?) rec autos makers honda, they were all talking about these newfangled web based message boards, and how they were gonna get all popular and thatd be the end of newsgroups.
kinda drifted off those thanks to NNTP service getting ganked from all the ISPs as a money issue.
i think i ran across jalop first, then this place, and curbside next, and theyre all good. probably not as good as REAL threaded comments, but we get pretty pictures and articles.
i was able to delete threads, block people i didnt care about and nobody would know.
dunno where i was going, just thought id add.
Not sure what Mr. Stevenson is expected. Blogs are filled with made up personalities and sadness. Keeping to non-click bait articles may or may not help with personal afflictions.
May we make disparaging comments about the driving skills of non-B&B/non-TTAC readers?
Probably as long as they’re not racist, sexist, or bigoted.
Takes a lot of people out of play, doesn’t it?
I hope Newspeak is still allowed.
This site wouldn’t be doubleplusgood without it.
This is gonna be tough, Mark.
Next you are gong to demand I know what I am talking about and be factual before I post. This would indeed limit me.
It is very difficult not to get political when the story is about policy or government action. Politics is a real nasty, emotional sport.
And unless there is absolute threats or useless postings, the banter is what this site is about.
Besides…aren’t the number of clicks and postings something that you use in gaining marketing funds and advertisements? Sometimes I think the features are just for the attention and for click baiting. Why else would there be Tesla features every day?
Even though I have had some bad interplays with many here….I still admire them and really look forward to what they have to add.
“It is very difficult not to get political when the story is about policy or government action. Politics is a real nasty, emotional sport.”
Yet it doesn’t need to be a “real nasty, emotional sport” if you talk about the issues and don’t let it get personal. As soon as someone gets personal, the debate is over and that person loses.
We need political debate. Various issues need to be questioned but not the personalities or intellect of those in the debate.
There is enough alienation and hate out their without adding to it.
“Besides…aren’t the number of clicks and postings something that you use in gaining marketing funds and advertisements?”
All I care about is reorienting the conversation to a place where those commenting are raising the level of discourse.
“All I care about is reorienting the conversation to a place where those commenting are raising the level of discourse.”
Discourse? The town in Pennsylvania, or am I getting that mixed up with something else?
“Discourse? The town in Pennsylvania, or am I getting that mixed up with something else?”
DON’T BE HATIN’ ON THE AMISH :-)
(Actually, without Intercourse, the Amish would be no more.)
too bad people cant just put other posters on “ignore” and that comments were actually threaded, but hey- thats all 90s tech. lol.
and all other web based things have the same issue.
An ignore feature would be brilliant.
It would be fantastic.
QUESTION:
Are these rules linked to the Editor-In-Chief acting or do they get reset each time TTAC’s torch is passed?
The torch wasn’t passed last time. It was dropped on the floor and I picked it up.
You should have picked up the *unlit* end.
Oh my gosh. Good one, shaker.
“No racism, sexism, or bigotry.” – I’d add “or the specious accusation thereof”.
That is the worst comment since the 21 Demands!
OMG!
Where would so many be without “specious accusation”!?
Hell…this IS the way of the main media today. And a good reason many really good folks do not run for office. Its not worth being dragged through the mud for ratings. Their desire for power just isn’t worth it.
Is it me, or has anybody else noticed the media transition into the Jerry Springer reality TV ratings whores??? I mean, no matter what, they seem to relish setting up the emotional argument.
Getting everybody heated…then braking for a commercial.
That’s racist! Somehow. I can’t say how, but it’s definitely super misogynistic. I mean anti-mrm. I mean anti-LBGT. No wait, I definitely mean xenophobic. I am almost certain that you have offended me in some way.
everythings getting all idiocracy, and its dumb. cops shooting people, cops getting shot, crazies that may or may not be one of a couple religions.
people were saying they were glad 2015 was over and hoping 2016 would be better… idk man.
“…Jerry Springer reality TV ratings whores???”
Why must you insult the world’s oldest profession in that way?
There you go again, shaker. Great comeback.
We are running out of french fries and burrito coverings!
I studied broadcasting in college. A large part of that involved getting deeply into the Communications Act of 1934 that created the FCC and defined the rules for radio and, later, television.
A central tenet of that legislation was that since the airwaves belonged to the American people, licenses granted for its use carried an obligation to serve the public good. Much of the good of that law has been diluted and, in the 1980s, news became a product rather than a service. With 24 hours per day to fill and the costs of providing actual news being what they were, commentary (and endless repetition) became the product as it is much cheaper to produce. So, much of “news” was turned into endless argument. People love to argue (and to watch others arguing), the networks have just monetized it.
Quality content costs money to produce. The rise of “reality programming” mainly eliminated costs (sets, writers, big production crews, etc.) as it’s not that expensive to put two guys on a fishing boat to get footage and then edit it into episodes.
The result has been an explosion of content and a corresponding decrease in average quality. Is anyone surprised?
bunkie: Rabid, self-defeating and inflexible partisan opinions in America can be directly linked to the end of the FCC’s Fairness Doctrine. If anyone wonders why America seemed so much more civil when Cronkite or Murrow delivered the news, read about the death of American objectivity here:
http://tinyurl.com/fairdoctrine
I too started as a journalist. What passes for news today guts me. Funny thing is, I’m hardly “left”. Not that long ago I would’ve been considered a “centrist”. I stayed the same but America shifted under me.
You yearn for the days when gatekeepers and liars like Walter Cronkite controlled the “news”.
As for civility, that’s just a case of “it all started when he hit me back”.
As for being “hardly “left”, leftists like to insist that they’re moderate centrists, just like you insist that when three liberal New York based tv networks set the narrative they were “objective”.
Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.
The pre-blogging days had their benefits. Verbose, factually inaccurate rants such as this one would have been killed by an editor prior to publication, or retracted if it somehow managed to make it through:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/08/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-police-parking-illegally/
Burn.
Wow, digging up a three year old article to make a personal attack. No obsession there, no, not at all. Actually, it’s kind of meta of you to use a post about uncivil behavior to act uncivilly. Bravo!
At least I’m willing to put my name on my opinions and suffer the slings and arrows that result, unlike anonymous internet know-it-alls.
Thanks for posting the link so more people can read my work.
“Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.”
Funny thing, Ted hasn’t returned my inquires either.
It’s just one example of how your desire to pontificate overwhelms any desire that may have to do your homework and get to the point. You do it fairly often, but I took the time to outline in the comments how badly you screwed up.
If that’s what you think of as a personal attack, then so be it. But note that I faulted the resulting work product and had abundant evidence to prove the point.
In any case, why have you not retracted that story when it is clearly inaccurate? You’ve never acknowledged how you screwed up, let alone apologized for it or taken it down from the website. I can only hope that discerning readers know better than to believe a word of it.
‘You yearn for the days when gatekeepers and liars like Walter Cronkite controlled the “news”.’
That’s called “jumping to a conclusion”. Did I say that? No.
I was making an observation. Let me paraphrase it with an analogy:
If you add a lot of water to your wine, it’s quality decreases.
I believe that there is no going back. And I’m not one who really believes in so-called journalistic objectivity as hard realities such as understanding all aspects of a story are almost impossible to achieve, which limits the true objectivity of any reportage, no matter how well-intentioned.
My entire point is that we need to recognize the profit motive behind media and, especially, news.
Finally, I’m old enough to remember Walter Cronkite’s statement about the Viet Nam war from actual experience. I believe that history shows that he was telling the truth on that one.
Ronnie Schreiber: Now I know your true colors. It’s laughable to suggest that politics in America haven’t massively shifted to the right in one generation. Yes – I *was* a centrist.
I present my father as evidence. Back in the 70’s he was a retired Colonel, homophobe and hated hippies. He carried a gun and thought Viet Nam was righteous … yet … he also cared about the environment, loved science, donated money to Greenpeace, had a Save the Whales sticker on his Honda and discretely smoked pot for his Parkinson’s symptoms. Today you’d call him a liberal, but back in the day he put Archie Bunker to shame.
Even Tricky Dick would strongly resemble a liberal today:
http://tinyurl.com/Nixon-Liberal
The era when Cronkite could show dead bodies coming home from Viet Nam, when Bob Woodward could spill the beans and when Ellsburg and the NY Times had the courage to expose the Pentagon Papers and our hopeless involvement in Viet Nam is OVER. To state otherwise shows that you either lack perspective or have an agenda.
Lastly, I loathe your use of “air quotes”. It’s a lazy, hackneyed writer’s trope. You’ll pen better prose without it.
Tim Russert was a prime example of someone who was honest in admitting that he was a through-and-through Democrat.
Yet he could rip both sides new exit points in their backsides, if you catch my drift!
All right then.
Thank you, thank you, thank you Mark!
After I read yesterday’s comments on the higher CAFE penalties, I was wondering what happened to the new moderators? There was so much backbiting and personal attacks, primarily lobbed by 2 individuals, that the name “B&B” seemed ironic.
So, nothing happened with the moderators. Right now, the moderators don’t have much power to do anything until we sort out some user permission issues. They’re more watchers at this point. We’ve taken action behind the scenes a few times.
Agree. That was one of the most nauseating series of comments I’ve ever seen here. Time to seriously tighten things up. To lose some of these characters would be a blessing.
To repeat a rather famous quote: Can’t we all just get along???
Essentially, “we are family” in the automotive community.
I was at the zoo.
“I was at the zoo.”
if you were here, why didn’t you do something?
;)
You read my mind on that one, JimZ
Ha.
Good point.
I went to the new penguin exhibit at the Detroit Zoo for the first time. I was impressed.
It probably smelled better than yesterdays comments. Do *new* penguin exhibits smell like the old ones?
The new penguin exhibit does not stink. Thank goodness for modern ventilation and HVAC systems.
I haven’t been to the zoo since, like, first grade.
I have a three year old and we live about a mile from the zoo. We go pretty regularly.
“we live about a mile from the zoo”.
Landsman!
Ronnie-
You bet.
i missed that because the title alone was boring as hell.
“No personal/ad hominem attacks.”
This would preclude 80% of the content from a few well-known posters.
+1
i will miss the BTRSD trump hellcat posts.
Perhaps so, and perhaps it’d make the site less “entertaining”, but it’s obnoxious when you’re just making a point and someone comes out of left field with a Harding-style smack to the knee. I’m talking not just below the belt, but totally unfounded.
Seems fair enough. We’ll see how it plays out.
mikey, as a long-time reader of TTAC and a recent poster, wanted you to know I have long appreciated your views and insights.
Simplify and add lightness.
Thought it was “then” rather than “and”?
You are exactly right. The post has been corrected.
Why don’t you limit posters to five comments on any given story?
Some threads create some interesting discussion. Much of that discussion usually happens between three or four people who are replying endlessly to each other. A post limit would not only kill those conversations, it would be onerous to enforce.
would there be a way to actually thread these things like an actual thread? expandable, collapsable?
Yes, we are going to handle all the comment system issues with the redesign. Stay tuned.
Given the frequency of these “new rules about commenting” articles this summer, just stick the fork in the whole way. Join the trend of sites that decided they no longer want comments and then saw a death spiral of traffic, layoffs, and bankruptcy.
I’m not looking to kill comments. I don’t think anyone is. They’re an integral part of TTAC. That said, it’s not like these rules are new. They’re just sharper versions of the rules already in place that had gone unenforced.
Mark, that was the source of the problem. There was a laxness in enforcing the rules. That emboldened some commenters. The more they got away with, the worse they became.
And I take responsibility for that. Part of taking responsibility for it is making it better. This is how I plan to do it.
Actually, we have fewer rules than before. Funny how that works.
“Actually, we have fewer rules than before. Funny how that works.”
Heh – you can tell that the Ten Commandments were written by humans – God would have needed only one:
“DON’T PISSETH ME OFF”
plenty of message boards, sites, and blogs have similar rules yet commenting lives on.
stop acting like it’s the end of the world just because they’re going to enforce a few “don’t be a d**k” rules.
Yeah, seriously. Every half-decent community on the internet has some level of rules (and enforcement).
The people who complain the loudest about those rules coming in to force are generally not the ones whom the community would miss.
When we had a discussion about the content of this post, Mark, Kyree, and I agreed that any rules should be in the spirit of “don’t be a d!ck”.
I wish our comment system would allow me to post screencaptured evidence of this “don’t be a dick” themed conversation about the rules.
which ones, out of curiosity?
some sites just suck- no new stuff, just rehash.
cracked is actually ok, no probs with gawkers brand or old folk talking about curbed cars.
I’ve mostly seen comments disappear from news sites (especially websites for local TV stations.) Usually for good reason; I’ve seen some of the most horrendous bile posted in comments on those sites, and by people under their real name! the worst is if it was a story about either a crime in the area where the suspects were black, then all of the old white suburban f**ks would spew garbage about “dindu nuffins” and other thinly-veiled code words.
I know you’re right ’cause I’ve seen that stuff, too. However, it’s like on this site, you can never be sure if people are really being mean-spirited or insensitive, or merely trying to get people to chuckle about a serious matter. Instead of trying to label people I generally give them the benefit of the doubt. Because things go both ways, as when we ourselves post.
Yeah heck, let’s talk about cars, not politics. I’m sick of that.
i can talk about my love of my scion xa!
went to the OC fair and fell lustfully in love with a prius C. on the way out, saw dennis rodman walking around.
Nothing wrong with implementing rules that keep things enjoyable and peaceful for those who come here for the purpose of talking about cars (other aspects of life seem to merge into that, which is actually a pretty cool thing). I long for the days of CrabSpirits again, his short stories seemed to keep things lighter.
Anyway, it was beought up, and they did something about it. Can’t be mad at that.
yeah,crabby was like murilee after a 6 pack of sierra nevada. awesome stuff.
how many of the Best and Brightest has gone to a pick a part?
i really havent since i got rid of my 81 rabbit vert in 98. but when i did, it was fun looking at junked cars and kinda poking around looking for clues.
It’s been awhile. I didn’t have any cars old enough for a long time. Now that I have the ’95 Legend I’ve wanted to a couple of times, but my nearest yards big enough to have at least one Legend are 40 and 60 minutes away, and I just haven’t had time.
You were driving an ’81 Rabbit in 1998? I would allow unlimited swearing about that one, but only from the owners.
That picture of a dinner party/family gathering/anniversary/etc made me think of how the rules of what is permissible may vary from party to party.
A society lady thought that Winston Churchill was being a loutish bore at a party and she told him: “Sir if you were my husband, I’d poison you.”
His reply? “Madam, if I were your husband, I’d drink it.”
Reminds me of a publicity stunt the Northern Pacific did when they received the first of their 2-8-8-4 “Yellowstone” steam locomotives with the largest fireboxes ever mounted on a steam locomotive. They hosted a catered dinner for 12 in an (empty, of course) firebox, complete with hostesses; tried to find the picture online, but could not.
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Time for capricious bannings and dunce caps again? Just bring back Bertel Schmitt already. At least he knew what he was talking about and never made me double-take whether I’d stumbled onto Jalopnik or not.
“Bertel Schmitt … never made me double-take whether I’d stumbled onto Jalopnik or not”
But there were a lot of times where he made me wonder if I’d stumbled onto [s]barely[/s]notquitelegalasiangirlypictures-dot-com
You say it like it’s a bad thing.
Ha!
gawker pty, ltd (a hulk hogan corporation) has a commenter that leaves all sorts of girly COTD semi nudies up.
It is, when the site is “The Truth About *Cars.*” there’s numerous sites out there where I can look at hawt chicks, it doesn’t need to be here.
yes, TTAC was at its best when it was mostly about Chinese business dealings, MQB uber alles, and “Look at how much Bertel loves Asian women.”
Let’s not forget about the numerous “Death Watches”. It was ever so much fun preparing for, and then watching, the deaths unfold before our very eyes.
I liked the reviews. I remember the 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix review (with the base engine): “In a race between the GP and North America, My money’s on continental drift.” Then there was the killer last sentence: “This is the last year for this model, so you can pick one up for a song. Don’t.”
The “Continental Drift” line was actually a CR-V review.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2006/10/honda-cr-v-2/
You were correct on the last sentence of the GP review.
Back before he became a MotorTrend shill, Lieberman had some entertaining stuff here.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2006/10/audi-rs4/
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007/02/ford-f250-super-duty-super-cab-lariat-outlaw-4×4/
This is still my favorite TTAC thing ever:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007/07/death-with-dignity-detroits-sudden-impact/
/I’ve Been here too long.
JimZ remembers Bertel well. TTAC was so distasteful during his reign that I stopped visiting this site altogether.
Speaking of, it was almost exactly three years ago that Bertel was ousted.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/in-which-we-bid-a-fond-farewell-to-our-former-editor-reinstate-banned-commenters-and-welcome-all-of-you-back-home-to-ttac/
eh, that was kinda boring as well.
Every time one of these type posts happen I feel the need to comment that I miss Herr Schmitt…not because I really miss him, but to remind the editorial staff that we are far from the bottom as far as decorum goes on these forums. But he’s gone, DeadWeight is gone, P71Silvy, Bill From Buckhead…all gone. Those guys brought alot of entertainment to this place. I mean it barely counts as an enthusiast forum anymore when the only thing that garners substantial comments are stupid midsize truck articles or Tesla hate.
Yes, DW had his moments as the resident curmudgeon but he went too far bashing Bark, reminded me of King Kong in the original movie repeatedly bashing that subway car. But have you read the comments on the CAFE article from yesterday?
It’s not surprising that Mark had to take action.
Yes, and unless some were deleted before I got there it looked like the normal crap the Aussie contingent stirs up here, but again I may have been late to the party.
Course I havent seen him post…maybe he got the boot. If that is the case then I wholly support the staff.
Deadweight didn’t get the boot. He had a weekend off and decided not to come back, yet. I’ve seen him post elsewhere. I’m on a quest to find Deadweight.
DeadWeight has a number of things he can speak knowledgeably on. I just wish he’d reel in some of his rants.
I was referring to the Aussie Al, not DeadWeight. I miss DW…The same can not be said for Aussie AL or the rest of the midsize truck Jihad.
from murica,
I really don’t think I was the one stirring up crap. All of my comment were civil except to a couple of individuals who constantly flame me (I just used Google to find out what flaming is). Their is another one who “stalks” me on this and other sites as well. DenverMike.
He’s another flamer.
The only time I have a problem is when others start flaming me. Sometimes it is warranted.
Actually since Adam and Kyree have taken on the role as TTAC moderators I have toned myself down considerably.
I do contribute considered and intelligent dialogue.
You may not agree with what I write, especially regarding how the US auto industry operates, ie, the effect of the chicken tax, barriers, regulations, controls, handouts, etc but this is the way it is.
My comments don’t suit how you want to view the US.
@Oz…Yeah, honestly I didn’t think it was you…I figured I missed the postings that prompted the whole thing and were deleted…yours were the worst in my opinion of what was left but as much as I disagree I don’t think you crossed any lines.
Yes, I think you are flat wrong on much of what you spew about the US and will continue to rebut it with numbers and facts at every available opportunity, And while I do see you as one of the great trolls to ever visit these forums, I don’t see you as a racist or anyone that should get banned…just someone who is wrong more often than not.
@BAFO – I would respond 10 times more to your crap nonsense, but I don’t have the time.
Lately it’s been so extremely rapid fire and nonstop, I don’t see how anyone could possibly keep up with your madness unless they quit their jobs, hobbies, friends, kids, etc.
So if that’s what it takes for your crap BS to prevail, enjoy the victory, you’ve earned it, mate.
BAFO: “He’s another flamer.”
Maybe “flamethrower” is what you meant…
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
@Big Al from Murica
I have never believed anything you have posted. I think you are one of the regular posters, using another name
Well you feel free to think and believe whatever you want. I had another name like 2 years ago but I have been using this one exclusively since then. But you should know, I wear your lack of belief in my postings as a badge of honor.
from murica,
Why don’t you go back to it?
I do think it is p!ss poor from TTACs perspective when “they” allowed you to use your current name, especially since you’ve admitted it was to offset my name.
And here we have this article, sort of makes me laugh.
@Big Al from Oz I see nothing wrong with the name. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery after all.
Yes, seems like it’s definitely been a long time since hearing from Bill From Buckhead. And, like you, I do miss hearing from him. I do find him on one or more other sites, at times. And, am already missing DeadWeight. Come on back, dude, and tell us how you really feel about Cadillac, and the people who are running it into the ground, etc.
what? deadweight’s gone? banished? someone hates tesla?
shit next thing i know someone will be telling me that clean diesel is a lie.
damn this rock is heavy.
missed the vitriol column. do not want to go back and find it.
civility people. i come here to read, learn and be entertained, not to parse through a series of flamer comments.
thank you, mark.
@1998Redwagon
DW was a breath of fresh air on this blog. Outside of Adam and Kyree, who are very positive influences on how TTAC operates
“Thus is a good reason I never had a tattoo!!!!” .
.
Smarter than I .
.
-Nate
(off to see what article I seem to have missed)
ive never found anything i want to be attached to for life. no tattoos, no wives. i take that shit serious because im a lapsed catholic.
Course corrections are often needed – in driving, space travel, and life.
Thanks for the clarifications, Mark.
I’m not as shocked by the comments by some folks, as I am by the replies they receive. To me, the high-volume posters provide reliable stability, even if you don’t agree with them. It’s the seagulls that concern me.
High-volume commenters are only a good thing if they are setting the kind of tone you want in your community.
Most of them just talk to hear themselves talk, and aren’t doing anything to create or elevate a useful discourse.
And this is my worry. Many moons ago, TTAC commenters would talk about some interesting parts of the industry with some insider perspectives. Now those perspectives are being drowned out by noise. It’s time to put on some noise-cancelling headphones for a bit.
This is true. I haven’t seen a post from Tresamones (sp?) in some time and his insights were one of the reasons I came here.
he was one of the good ones, true.
if you haven’t seen anything posted by Tresmonos you haven’t been looking.
My posts have been lacking.
Everyone should be lamenting a lack of posts from Danio, geozinger, mikey, DW or many other quality B&B. They usually spur good conversation. so I’ve been mostly trolling idiots.
That and I throttled back recreational drug usage.
I still try and keep up on the news, but scroll past most of the comments. Not because they break any of the above six commandments, but because they’re useless bluster. There’s a ton of defense of willful ignorance, and there’s no use calling it out most of the times so I exercise my right to scroll through.
I’d participate more, but I think it’s wasted.
I’d love for you to contribute more. Break through the noise, Danio.
Where are you living these days?
I’m all over these days, but home base is Calgary for the moment.
Let me know if/when you land in Ontario again.
I hear you. The comment section has become too inconvenient to sift. Maybe TTAC is diluting itself based on traffic/success. That or all the Muppets love politicking season.
It’s neither of those things. We’ve been lax on enforcing the rules that already existed. As of yesterday, that’s changing. We’re keeping an especially close eye on the comments today.
I’ll be in Windsor the first week of August and Toronto probably September/October some time. Did you move from the coast?
@danio I am moving to *undisclosed location* near Toronto on the first weekend of August..
“…first weekend of August..”
Careful, you might offend someone’s political sensibilities by not calling it Simcoe Day. Then again, you might offend someone else if you do call it that.
edit: looks like I just scored comment #302, and 302 is something of an automotive related number. Just keeping things on track, like Amtrak as one of my fellow B&B noted the other day.
Thanks for the compliments, Tres! I started a new job last winter and don’t have the time to read blogs and comment as much as I would like.
Some of my most memorable conversations have been shared with those I do not agree with. However, we always leave the table respecting each other.
Unable to find an ability to reply to some comments above. Like tres said above, geozinger is one person I thought of whom we haven’t heard from in many moons. He certainly was a regular going back many years.
I didn’t know I had a following.
As mentioned further up the strings, new job, less time for blogs.
I joined up here in 2006, IIRC, so yes, I’ve got a history here. Thanks for thinking of me.
It’s so sad to see what’s become of the site that crowned the Subaru Tribeca “the flying vagina”.
It feels like taking steps backward now.
One moment, you leave a Facebook post on my wall stating how you want to provide TTAC a video from a consumer ride and drive event. The next moment you tell me I’m not doing my job.
*shakes head*
I’m astounded by the thought process.
rest assured he doesn’t speak for all of us.
You got it wrong Mark
I never said “you aren’t doing your job”.
You never – ever replied to me and like 24 hours has passed.
I was planning to edit the video and narrate and I was gonna ask you how I should do it and what constraints I should use.
1) You posted on my Facebook Wall, which is hardly a place where I’d expect to receive a professional pitch for content.
2) You sent this pitch on Saturday, my day off.
3) It wasn’t really a pitch as much as “Hey, I can do this video.”
4) Then you come on here and say TTAC is going downhill under my stewardship.
I don’t owe you a 24-hour turnaround time.
Farago would have booted him and a bunch of others, myself likely included some time ago. You are doing fine.
oh, i guess the little grey arrows are the thread? so much to learn after so many years…
I appreciate the clarity of the rules lately, but I feel like it’s alienating some of the right-leaning folks, who although I almost never agree with them, are some of the integral parts in the TTAC machine. The TTAC comments section is the first place I have ever encountered that has made me appreciate and understand why intelligent people think that way about some things and has broadened my view on the world.
Although still, the less politics the better. More discussion about obscure car styling elements, please.
I have no skin in the game, right or left, when it comes to American politics. The rules will be applied equally, regardless of whether you ride an elephant or donkey out of the polling booth.
It’s amazing that this country got so polarized and angry that politics has infected every single facet of life.
But always remember.
DARWINISM is the truth.
Whenever you write that, BTSR, — and thankfully, it is often — I chuckle. Because your 2 favorite topics are:
– “automotive Darwinism” and
– a twice bankrupt carmaker that was saved from being dissolved by Obama
You see the irony, right?
“a twice bankrupt carmaker that was saved from being dissolved by Obama”
I could use Darwinism to justify or explain ANYTHING.
I am that attuned to it.
@BTSR I’m facepalming so hard that I’m nearly getting whiplash.
VoGo:
slight nitpick- Chrysler only went bankrupt once, in 2009. In ’79 they got private financing to keep going; the government basically was a co-signer on those loans (e.g. “we’ll pick up the tab if they default.”) You can still call it a bail-out since they probably wouldn’t have been financed w/o the .gov co-signing, but it wasn’t a bankruptcy.
Automotive Darwinism perfectly describes why BTSR’s much derided “soulless Japanese econoboxes” and CUVs have been so successfully killing off his Hellcat type cars. Big motor in a big sedan (especially those with non-luxury nameplates) are the proverbial dinosaurs that take too much space, too much fuel and are living in an environment that wants efficiency in both space and fuel consumption.
BTSR – you are a very bright guy and I love your comments when you drop the caps and bombast. I might not agree with some of it but I do welcome your view point.
that totally explains “autopilot”
As a student of American history, I hate to correct you, but will.
Anybody, and current generations always do this, that thinks these times are the worst of times is just naive and narrow minded. In fact, they know nothing of true history.
Sorry to offend the emotional of today…but these are nowhere near bad times.
American elections, for one, were hateful and nasty as all get out fro the second presidential election on.
Jefferson alone writing under fake names and bashing George Washington w a s unbelievable.
Andrew Jackson took office ready to purge those who attacked him.
Hell..does anybody remember a small event known as the American Civil War?
Folks…these are actually pretty nice times were are living in.
Read.
This.
Wot?! Draft riots and lynchings in NEW YORK CITY?!
“…Anybody, and current generations always do this, that thinks these times are the worst of times..”
Back in ’99 I was working for a big brokerage doing development supporting their website. I was working with two just-out-of-college guys who had managed to learn enough HTML to land $75/hour jobs. They were bitching about how much things sucked. My first comment was “do you have to worry about getting drafted and being sent to Viet Nam as I did?” or “or, like my father, worry about being shot by the Gestapo?”. And we were the lucky ones, neither of those things happened to us as they did for so many others.
The fact is, despite our stupid arguing, the world is *not* falling apart, living conditions are markedly better for the vast majority of people alive today than they were 50 years ago and that trend is continuing.
Oh, and one more thing: cars and trucks are *so* much better than they have ever been.
“I appreciate the clarity of the rules lately, but I feel like it’s alienating some of the right-leaning folks” . . . stop right there.
Thanks for that comment, it speak volumes.
“In the world it is called Tolerance, but in hell it is called Despair…the sin that believes in nothing, cares for nothing, seeks to know nothing, interferes with nothing, enjoys nothing, hates nothing, finds purpose in nothing, lives for nothing, and remains alive because there is nothing for which it will die.”
― Dorothy L. Sayers
BUT… i believe in the goodness of man, care for the folk i care about, want to know EVERYTHING (who doesnt?) interferes with whats wrong, enjoys simple things (when not depressed) hates hypocrasy, and the other stuff may stand…
‘Tolerance, in many cases, is borne of fear; not the fear of the rabbit, but the fear that one may become intolerant. Such is the burden of the sentient.’
Me
Tolerance in many cases is just calculated insincerity if we are referring to race, religion, orientation or even politics.
Despair is the loss of hope. If you feel tolerance leads to despair then you really need to assess your values.
Dorothy L. Sayers is describing apathy and atrophy. Both have nothing to do with tolerance.
I accept homosexuality but I’m not gay.
I don’t need to be from a racial minority to empathise with their plight.
I can be a Christian and still accept the faith of a Jew or Muslim.
I’m on the liberal side of the political spectrum and I accept the fact that there are other views.
Pragmatic critical thinking is the way foreword not entrenched ideology.
Apparently Elon is offended.
What?
You know, I’ll freely admit there needs to be a little more civility here, but do you think maybe you guys are stoking it somewhat? I mean how many midsize truck articles need posted on here and you know good and well what is going to happen when that goes up. Tempers are up, but it does seem we get alot more clickbait then we used to. I got it, ads pay the bills and you have to generate traffic. Maybe the content could be a little more focused nowadays. Do you guys need more writers? I ask seriously because it seems like there is a lot more reposting of stuff than back in the day. I’d be willing to contribute, and I at least have an English Degree, but I’m a cyber security guy so I don’t know how it would go. Still, I’ll do it for free if you need reviews of anything I can get my hands on and I have a thick skin so if it sucks feel free to crap can it. But I have always wanted to give it a whirl.
good. ill give an unbiased account of my scion after 10 years. the OC fair has a toyota exhibit i could give a review of- with a mirai, even. they had a TAN tacoma! light brown!
i feel like a journalist in my own mind after a few beers.
Scratch the Tacoma…If I have to read another midsized truck review I’ll throw my laptop through the wall.
from murica,
Midsize truck articles??
I think maybe your are the one with issues, eh?
“I mean how many midsize truck articles need posted on here and you know good and well what is going to happen when that goes up.”
Why would the existence of a midsize truck article ruffle feathers? Seriously, it’s an article about a bloody truck, not about how Trump/Clinton/Johnson is the best president for the American automotive industry.
If people are going to get bent out of shape that we talk about cars — *gasp* — maybe they are in the wrong place. Totally and completely in the wrong place.
@ Mark Stevenson How about some information on the plethora of ” 1 Tonne” Pickups from Mercedes, Nissan , Renault, Ford Ranger,Toyota Hilux, PSA versions of the Hilux and Hyundai’s ” I Tonne”
No these’s are NOT US Midsizers, having mainly diesels a more than 2,200lb payload and formidable Off Road prowess. Current US Midsize Pickups would not cut it.
People here probably laughed at the idea, that European Vans would become popular in the US,but the Transit, Promaster and Sprinter have proved them wrong.
Why do we have very little information on pickups sold outside the U.S. and Canada? Because we have very few readers outside of the U.S. and Canada. Simple as that. I’m shooting myself in the foot if I post an article on a vehicle in which most of our readers are not interested at the price of one that most readers will actually read.
Plus, it isn’t like we’ve offered _zero_ coverage of those vehicles. It’s just not commercially viable to give those vehicles the same attention as domestic equivalents.
We give commercial vans more coverage than most enthusiast/industry blogs.
Mark Stevenson – agreed.
I like to know what is out there but at the end of the day, unless I can park it in my driveway, it isn’t going to register too highly on my interest meter.
“I like to know what is out there but at the end of the day, unless I can park it in my driveway, it isn’t going to register too highly on my interest meter.”
Too be fair same applies here,. Then again many were writing off Euro Vans as replacements for the Econoline, Dodge Van and Chevrolet Van.
Well the Econoline and Dodge have mostly gone into Van heaven. Chevrolet will be difficult as the European Vauxhall and Opel Vans are made by Renault
@RobertRyan And Chevy’s city van in North America is made by Nissan. I’m sure GM could source more vans from the Alliance if it wanted.
@Mark Stevenson,
Nissan Van is not exactly setting the world on fire. So the replacement for the now very aging Chevrolet Van,maybe more problematic than it appears
@RobertRyan GM has options. It could buy NVs from Nissan. It could build another body-on-frame van like the Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana. Or it could develop a new van atop the Canyon/Colorado frame. After all, GM is already making chassis-cab variants of the Colorado.
It’s that exact “lack of information” that you hide behind. We used to just take your world for it, since your Aussie rules and regulations are tough to find/figure out, as most don’t really exist.
Turns out, Oz “payload” is left entirely to the pickup maker’s discretion. You have no DOT/SAE “equivalents”.
You’re not about to mention that, nor that of your diesel pickup *choices*, most of what we’re missing in the US, would never clean up enough to comply with US/EU crash standards or emissions.
Why does everything have to be a damn puzzle for us to unravel, before getting at the real truth?
Like you claim your midsize pickup selection is *cheaper*, except you forget to mention they’re regular cabs, stripped to the frame “cab-n-chassis” pickups, without pickup beds. And probably no AC.
Just some honest insights into the Oz market would be awesome, instead of some crazed, whacked out, anti US (autos/pickups) agenda.
Same drivel, from the same source
@DenverMike Temper that finger pointing, fella.
With regard to the fifth commandment… why not specify that the words Trump and Hill can only be used without capitals to ensure all of us greater protection from politics.
I don’t think I’d buy a used car from either one of them – but that’s another story.
Come to think of it – what kind of cars did they last drive personally – any of the B&B know ? Did they take a position on the Chrysler bailout? NAFTA? NAFTA – Asia?
There will be blood. No country for old men. Nobody for President.
Don’t shoot – I’m only the piano player.
id love to know what each has driven in the past!
Well it looks like Hillary had an 86 Cutlass 4 door at some point:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/04/12/former-white-house-gardener-selling-hillary-clinton-car/
The Donald has several cars to include a 2011 Camaro Indy Pace Car, a 56 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, a 2003 Mercedes Benz SLR Mclaren, and a 2015 Rolls Silver Phantom.
Not sure about the Bern, but apparently someone who looks like him was driving an R8, stirring up some discontent.
I think Obama did that Comedians in Cars drinking Coffee with Jerry Seinfeld too
Drove a ’63 split-window Vette around the WH grounds (the Secret Service wouldn’t let him through the gate).
Yes, it was scripted, but still worth a look.
IIRC, he had a Gen-1 300C, if memory serves.
The more you look for split hairs, the more split hairs you’ll find. I’m not about to split hairs on Trump, Clinton, or any politician. The rules are general on purpose.
Enough talk about civility, more action. Get rid of the dead weight (pun intended) and move on.
It’s not just bad manners and narcissism that turn people away. It’s also the tight cliques which form around rogue celebrity commentators, with the cryptic remarks and the inside jokes. It’s not a “community” if the average newcomer can’t figure out what the hell people are talking about.
“It’s not a “community” if the average newcomer can’t figure out what the hell people are talking about.”
Just about every forum I’ve participated in is like that – just like high school.
You need to really hang out a lot more than you want to (or have time to), and have more than a passing interest in some of the arcane terminology used to become (maybe) an “insider”.
Me, I enjoy reading, and throwing a small firecracker in the comments section every now and again, and my non-committal is rewarded by being generally ignored.
I still see stuff here of value often enough that It keeps me entertained. (See Principal Dan’s “Churchill” post above).
I see your firecracker and raise you an M80.
“Your M80 is awaiting moderation.” ;-)
“Just about every forum I’ve participated in is like that – just like high school.”
some of us have left high school behind. you should try it.
don1967 – like any new “culture” there will always be nuances lost on the “outsider”. When I first started here I did not know what B&B was. It is by definition a “community” if the average newcomer doesn’t get it.
So, where has DeadWeight run off to? Haven’t seen a post from him in maybe 2 weeks or so.
I’ve seen DW not post for weeks if not longer at a time, and then return as a prolific commenter. There are a few others around here that are the same.
DeadWeight was given a weekend to cool off after attacking a writer. He hasn’t returned.
Thank you for these Mark, these rules look pretty great from the perspective of someone who used to moderate forums way back in the day. Simple, light, and easy to understand. Of course, some folks seem to be forcing some “insight” in to the rules that doesn’t seem to be there, but hey, what are you gonna do. ;)
I’ve been trying to participate more here recently (partly due to the employer blocking some of my usual haunts, admittedly), but there are a few certain personalities that are frankly, just awful for comment civility and make me really not want to bother. This place is certainly a lot better than it used to be a few years ago, and I think you’ve been doing a great job with it. A couple little tweaks here and there with the comment system and it’ll be top-notch. I’m curious what the new redesign will have in store, with any luck it’ll add a bit of refinement down here below the articles.
On a personal opinion note, I think this place could do with a heavy purge of the usual political discourse that winds up happening. Those aforementioned personalities really seem to not be able to discuss these things like civilized adults, and that’s sad to me. I think people need to understand the difference between a debate and an argument, because a lot seem to vastly prefer the latter, when the former would be way more constructive and nice to read.
Hopefully we can get back to talking about cars, soon.
I’d like to second that notion. These diversions into things said by others who are offended, hurt, disgusted, outraged, shocked …and then feel the immediate need to go complain about big brother/sister to mommy or daddy are starting to get a little old. I’d like to think we’re all adults, but we never really know who we are dealing with. I was taught growing up that “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” Seems some have grown up, or are growing up without learning that. There’s also the “first get the 2×4 out of your own eye before complaining about the splinter in someone else’s eye.” What I’m suggesting is that sometimes the complainer is just as guilty or even more guilty of what he is complaining about in someone else. I’ve read enough to get the sense that if further sanctions are truly needed, then something’s just not right here in River City.
Trouble in River City! That starts with a T and that rhymes with C and that’s Truth ’bout Cars!
I like your follow-up, Jim!
The latest clarification of the rules is just a continuation of what I promised I would do weeks ago when I appointed the new moderators. Nothing has happened between then and now to trigger these new rules.
In my case, sometimes it’s a sequoia, not a 2×4!
(Certainly explains the headaches! :-) )
As a newbie to this site, thanks for clarifying the policy and trying to make this place a bit more civil and welcoming. I’m enjoying the daily reporting here, and look forward to checking out some of the archived links from the deep past of TTAC.
If you find anything interesting, email me. A few months ago, I tried to skim most of the historical pieces. I made it to early 2009.
If this works, I would surely start reading the comment section again. I stopped a few months back when comments on any article started resembling YouTube. Hopefully this site can get back to what it does best, cars.
I’m trying. We’re all trying.
Thank you for that. I’m sure it is not an easy job.
Kudos to Mark and the TTAC gang for attempting to drive a little civility back into the site. Many of us were attracted to TTAC for the depth and valued insight into the automotive world along with the intelligent conversation brought to the table by many of the “regulars” around here. There have been days when I’m sure more than a few of us have contemplated leaving this site as the comments devolved into sandlot name-calling that did nothing to further the discussion.
I look forward to seeing how this shakes out and if TTAC will continue to be a bright spot in an otherwise dull world of political and personal drivel.
Thanks for seeing the light. However, I caution you to be patient. We can’t read all comments all the time, but we will try to read most of them most of the time. Some will sneak through. Sometimes we won’t react in such time as to nip a problem in the bud. However, we will always try our hardest to make this place better, not worse.
It always seems like I miss something “big” whenever I’m gone for a few days.
This is all your fault!
I too wish I had checked my email at least yesterday. Now I know what modern dinner parties look like!
Nice to see a butterfly hunt, well organized & it’s participants all issued their sledgehammers. Some toes will be injured, some butterfly’s will die. Let me do some half fast math calculations, 300 commenters – half left handed, the other half right handed. Won’t change the fact I drive a 15yr old minivan or harbor my delusions of turning 2 Italian wrecks into one funmobile. My trolling skills on TTAC are limited by my desire to utilize the platform to dazzle all with my superior writing ability and impart my version of automotive wisdom to the unwashed, teeming masses desiring to read such. No axe grinding, just comment on the particular days human condition, from 1 human to a few others.
And I will reply to those rants. I promise.
Since racism and sexism is now a no-no here isn’t the bigotry category redundant?
If not what groups would it cover?
Crab people.
Crab people? Sure, we all hate on them. But just to be clear – we’re OK with Crab Spirits, right?
I haven’t seen him in quite some time. He don’t play no GTA no more either.
Count me as one who misses Crab Spirits.
I do not understand.
(This is a South Park joke, about crabs which were wearing human suits and who also happened to be homosexuals. They had a chant. “Crab people, crab people. Looks like crab, tastes like people.”)
Bigotry is intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. So religious views would be something else it covers. A lot of the time that goes hand and hand with racism though.
I guess derailing threads is OK.
The thing with “derailing” threads is that it takes a second person to take the bait and go down that new subject line. One person can’t derail a thread on their own.
It won’t happen again. No jokes with April S. Got it.
I’m all for a good joke but I just wanted a question answered. Something pertinent to my inquiry.
Don’t start none, won’t be none.
Some”derails” are more valuable than the original thread in my sometimes less than humble opinion ;)
Off-topic conversation, as long as it’s somewhat connected to the original topic, is welcomed and encouraged.
even sexist micro-aggressions? I don’t even know I’m making them due to my CIS white male privilege.
What’s the Confederacy of Independent Systems got to do with this? You’re not a Seperatist, are you?
Confederacy of Independent Systems? I’m not familiar with that.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Confederacy_of_Independent_Systems
Star Wars reference, playing off the non-standard capitalization of OP’s comment. Using “cis” as shorthand for “cisgender” means it’s (supposed to be) in lowercase. Uppercase “CIS” refers to the bad guys in Eps. II and III.
I didn’t know any of this. I guess sometime I should go see a Star War.
I thought CIS meant Bosch Continuous Injection System. Here it is, used in a sentence for example: Check your CIS privilege! You don’t know what it’s like to live with a carburetor.
… just trying to re-rail the derailed thread.
Amtrak don’t got nothin on you.
It seems he may have stepped in some Dooku.
Idk, in a way after it all played out, was the CIS all that wrong?
They saw danger in the beurocracy of the Republic, and didn’t like the taxes and trade rules Coruscant was putting down on them. They felt quite unrepresented in the galaxy. After a little persuasion from some Sith’s, they found the Confederacy to be their best option.
They probably could’ve picked a better planet to blockade and not invaded them, or just used their substantive industrial power that their implied to have to bend the Republic to their will a bit. Preventing Palpatine from coming to power, thus never creating the Empire. And this is without talking about the massive amount of blood on their hands the Jedi Council has for their role in this failure of government. Unfortunately that wouldn’t be an exciting series of movies, now would it? Although..it would’ve saved us from Episode II’s so-incredibly-bad Anakin/Padme scenes, might’ve been worth it.
WWJJD?
What would Jar Jar drive? Meesuh wonder.
He was actually banished from Otoh Gunga for “crashing de Boss’s heyblibber,” whatever that is.
…I can’t believe I just typed that.
The entire CIS, and by extension, the Clone Wars, were just a front for Sidious/Palpatine to gain power, and would have never come about without him. He had been playing to the greed and discontent of the Trade Federation, the Techno Union, the Intergalactic Banking Clan, etc., for possibly decades behind the scenes before Dooku arrived on the scene and united them under a common banner. The Neomoidians were too cowardly to actually think of blockading a planet of their own volition–it took Sidious’s machinations to set things in motion.
Also, the lousy writing of the Anakin/Padme romance was saved by John Williams’s beautiful love theme.
Welcome back BS!
What did you do with Mark?
Stating one’s disagreement with an opinion and the fallacy of the underlying reasoning is often viewed as intolerance and by extension bigotry.
People think posters who agree with them are smarter, more moral and more logical than those who don’t…and vice versa.
Politics, in the broader sense, is inseparable from open discussion of the auto industry.
The trick is to improve civility while allowing attacks on opposing lines of logic.
If an attack on a poster’s reasoning is deemed a personal attack, trolling, flaming or bigotry…most interesting posters will leave.
We’ll see…
“If an attack on a poster’s reasoning is deemed a personal attack, trolling, flaming or bigotry…most interesting posters will leave.”
It’s not. Attack the words, not the man uttering those words. As soon as you attack the man, you’ve crossed the line. Clear as mud.
Common sense ain’t always so common…
OK:
I disagree.
OK:
That’s a terrible idea.
Not OK:
This is another one of your terrible ideas.
Not OK:
Only an moron would agree with you.
Gray area:
Who in their right mind would agree with that idea?
OK:
Please re-read what I said.
OK:
That’s not what I said. You’re putting words in my mouth.
Not OK:
You don’t read so well.
Not OK:
You win last place in reading comprehension.
Gray area:
You’re so smart you figured out what I didn’t even realize I intended to say.
etc.
I sometimes believe that children have a better grasp of common sense than most adults.
Whittaker – you can ask for some sort of proof if what you feel is incorrect reasoning or you can post your own evidence. That is not an attack upon the blogger. If you say that the blogger is “intellectually challenged” or imply a lack of character or a lack of morals then that is an attack on the person.
“People think posters who agree with them are smarter, more moral and more logical than those who don’t…and vice versa.”
I disagree.
I’ve heard some excellent explanations/rebuttals that have impressed me.
If I’m called an id!ot or other such names then yes, I will question the intellect, logic, and/or moral fibre of that person. In some cases one has to accept the fact that the other is just p!ssed off. There are many who do not like to be questioned or challenged.
I found all of these rules agreeable, in paticular the political one as too often Ive seen this site become more about “TheTruthAboutPolitics”.
Of course, if Ivcoild I’d dekand thst others occasionally hit shift. typing like this makes you seem very very quiet. I’d also demand myself to quit making terrible rypos.
This really sounds like everyone is on secret probation, I respond to btsr rants cause I think they are dumb but I try not to offend, I skipped the cafe article because I did not expect much from the B&B regarding Cafe in the comments sounds like I was right.
Mark, I’ve noticed that more than a few of the frequent posters do seem to intentionally push the boundaries – the limits that have been set – though in most cases it seems to be done in a playful, not really mean-spirited way which even still could cause a complainer to be upset about. Not sure about everybody else, but I don’t have the time to read every article, nor every post on every article. Can say that there was one posting by someone I choose not to name that was a blatant violation of previous policy, and it was in no way cute nor funny; nevertheless, I don’t get my shorts in a bunch over every little thing and send off a complaint. I just move on. More than a little sad that more stringent rules and definitions of the rules is needed. It would seen that the offended and/or the complainers are forcing you to make changes which are further changing this truly great site. Will wait and see what develops. I do come to this site daily and read all the articles that interest me, or that I have time for. As I said recently, have been coming here for many years and only recently was motivated to set up an account in order to comment.
FWIW Mark, no one can make everyone happy all of the time. Set your rules, do your best to enforce them.
As for the discourse around here, we seem to have several cliques and a few extroverts getting their 15 minutes of fame on this blog. I was part of a clique on here too, for a while. Nothing new and give it some time, the clique will change. Hopefully folks will remember to treat each other with respect.
At one time we did have some very well connected commenters on here, but the Caveman Contingent (B&B) managed to irritate them into leaving, along with a couple of female writers. Sometimes the Best and Brightest don’t live up to their names. It’s way too easy to say sh!t on the ‘net that you wouldn’t say to the person’s face. Too bad, because I think those people could have really enlightened us.
I’ve not always agreed with all of the EICs (especially BS), but I’ve been guaranteed that I will be refunded my membership fee if I ever decide to leave.
I feel like the B&B descriptor has been tongue in cheek for a while, almost to the point of cynicism. The fact that we cannot self-moderate and as you said have run quality people off speaks to how B&B we are, collectively.
“Like you claim your midsize pickup selection is *cheaper*, except you forget to mention they’re regular cabs, stripped to the frame “cab-n-chassis” pickups, without pickup beds.”
.
As soon as once gets out of Urban / Suburban areas to where pickups are actually sold primarily as work vehicles , cab and chassis pickups on dealer lots becomes very common in America , along with nearby trailer manufacturers who’ll have stacks of ready to install flat beds (mostly with headache racks) in a variety of configurations as well as the ability to make you up a custom work bed on order .
.
Not all pickups in America are sold for passenger use only , just most of them .
.
-Nate