With no approved U.S. diesel fix in its grasp, Volkswagen hasn’t even bothered asking the Environmental Protection Agency for permission to resume selling its maligned TDI models, Automotive News reports.
Sales of all new and certified pre-owned TDIs were frozen last September after the diesel emissions scandal became public. Even after agreeing to a $15.3 billion U.S. settlement last month, it looks like the models will cool their heels for months to come.
An EPA spokesperson told Automotive News that Volkswagen needs “to address our concerns” before they can apply for approval to resume sales.
The first buybacks of the roughly 475,000 sidelined Volkswagen and Audi 2.0-liter TDI models are expected this fall. Owners can request a fix to keep their vehicle on the road, though pre-2015 models will be harder to bring into compliance with environmental laws.
When the EPA hammer came down, U.S. dealers were left with scores of unsold 2015 and 2016 TDI models that have collected dust for the past 10 months. If the company can gain regulatory approval for a fix, dealers can begin repairing them and (hopefully) moving them off the lot.
The problem for dealers is that the process is slow — any fix will be scrutinized and tested like never before, and more delays are possible from that process. Last week, a European consumer group claimed that a 2.0-liter Audi Q5 TDI tested after its software-related fix was actually dirtier than before. European Union and EPA emissions rules differ, but designing an easy U.S. fix for even the newest 2.0-liter diesels could be a challenge.
As it pays the price for its scandal in North America, the financial pain is just getting started overseas. Volkswagen escaped a multi-billion-dollar buyback program on the Continent, but prosecutors want to levy huge fines against the automaker.
According to Reuters, investigators in Braunschweig, Germany want to fine the company based on the profits it made from selling 11 million defeat device-equipped diesels between 2009 and 2015.
“We cannot pay heed to what VW may have to pay in other countries when we go about setting the fine,” a spokesman in the prosecutor’s office told Reuters. “We cannot say: ‘VW is already requested to pay a lot in the U.S., so let’s not be so strict.’ That’s not possible.”
The German fine could run into the hundreds of millions of euros. Meanwhile, today South Korea announced it will ban sales of several Volkswagen models. The country launched an investigation that could see over 100,000 vehicles recalled, as well as fines imposed on the automaker.
[Image: © 2015 Mark Stevenson/The Truth About Cars]
Any of the new, unregistered TDIs should be on a boat to whatever country can legally sell them. These cars will be multi years older before they can be repaired, tested and sold off. My understanding is that titled vehicles have to be repaired before they can be legally exported.
The crusher is looking more appealing daily.
Agreed.
Just imagine the discount on a ‘new’ 2015 TDI sold in early 2017. Does VW really want to lose more money on these radioactive unicorns, only to have to service them for another 10-15 years?
Lets see sell it at a deep discount, say $15k or sell if for $100/ton to the scrap yard. Yeah they will be on the hook for the emissions warranty for some time and of course the bumper to bumper for a shorter period but there is still money to be made on all the parts for those non warranty repairs.
and trust me, there will be non warranty repairs on the baling wire and spitball exhaust system.
Right, but “frozen” new inventory has never been titled. It’s still the property of VW, so I would expect they could all go back on the boat and get hauled off to some LHD country with lax emissions standards.
I figure it will be at least September before the fix is approved; I wonder what one or two year old cars will be worth.
Volvo trucks (not affiliated with Volvo cars) was fined last year for selling some non-compliant “EPA-certified” trucks outside of the US.
The problem may have been the sticker itself, meaning that VW could perhaps remove it and be OK.
I’m not sure how they worked-out the whole jurisdiction thing, but Volvo trucks operates in the US, and some of those trucks could be re-imported.
It seems weird, but just imagine if a company sold counterfeit “TUV certified” parts outside of the EU, and genuine stuff in the EU. The TUV would go after their German importer.
The inventory on dealers’ lots is the property of the dealership or the floorplanning finance company. Those vehicles are sold when delivered and paid for then or sooner.
Now VW DOES have, of course, legal exposure – over and above its fraud. It sold those things as saleable, registerable motorcars. Due to their own dishonesty, they are not. So, it wouldn’t take Perry Mason to make a case that the manufacturer is obligated to buy them back.
But there they are, in limbo. Frankly…brand new vehicles; I can’t see why they couldn’t be remanufactured into gas powered cars…cut the losses, pull the clean, like new engine and fuel system out and bolt in a new engine and transaxle. A new instrument panel, some wiring mods, and it’s saleable.
Their titles would have to be branded “Salvage”, which is only right. Logically the crusher is their only hope.
Actually US law explicitly forbids that. Non complying vehicles cannot be re exported
I will take one of those unsold TDI Passat If the price is right
We’ve found a True Believer.
In my opinion, buying a TDI would be like buying the last new Saab – not worth it at any price.
It’s interesting that you say that – I bought one of the last NA 2011 RX8s before they were discontinued. I didn’t think about resale value, I just wanted a fun-to-drive car and wanted to have driven what might have been the very last Rotary car ever made. It’s also the only car I’d driven at Laguna Seca, so it holds a special place in my heart. :)
I imagine the last Saab sold was similar, except of course the whole warranty Bruhaha. In the case of the TDI, though, presumably VW will remain a going concern, so warranty shouldn’t be a problem.
It might be a way to get a relatively well-reviewed car at a steal from a large manufacturer, and probably the most-scruitinized diesel engine ever at that point to boot. :) I mean sure, it’s resale will be crap, but I generally assume that of most cars nowadays anyway – as long as the trade-in covers what’s left of my lease/loan/whatever..
Why do you believe it wouldn’t be “worth it at any price”?
I am a bit fork-tongued when I speak of resale value, having owned a multitude of Chryslers, Hyundai/Kias, and a (leased) Nissan Leaf. But I agree that I wouldn’t want to be caught upside-down on the trade.
However, I’m not so sure of VW’s future viability in the US. At this point, a TDI’s only value is to other TDI fans (of which there are still many), but not the general public, and not a used car dealer. I’d be terrified to own such a car beyond the warranty. And VW’s silence on developing future TDIs tells me that these fixed ones will become orphans.
I *understand* why someone would want one, but it’s a car that will always require an explanation.
I expect Volkswagenwerk to bankrupt its VWoA arm, or whatever they’re called today.
It’s the cheapest way out of this. They lose the Chattanooga factory and maybe the American market for a few years. They get out of the bulk of this debt.
In steps Elon Musk or another hustler, to do a Malcom Bricklin: Import VWs as an independent American importer. Which VW then buys out in a couple of years, after whatever statutes of limitation are past.
Win/Win. Except, of course, for VW customers, dealers and employees in the States.
Forget the whole TDI scandal, I wouldn’t buy a new TDI just based on how they’ve oriented the oil filter on the EA288. It’s now an upside down cartridge filter in front of the engine that is blocked by hoses. On the EA189 engines it’s a topside cartridge, which is easily accessible. VW just likes to make things difficult whenever they can.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=429219
That is one sharp looking wagon. Put in the 2.0T from the GTI, AWD and a stick for under $30K on an SEL, and I am in.
Mine is an SEL with the Lighting Package, but it has the DSG. I’d be happy if they converted it to a Golf R SportWagen (manual or not, though).
The nice thing is that, on the TDI Golf and Golf SportWagen, you were able to get the 6-speed manual all the way up to the top-of-the-line SEL trim. But on the TSI (which is now the sole offering), you only get the manual on the base S trim, and it’s a 5-speed at that. I don’t think anything, especially something over $20K, should still have a 5-speed.
What is the difference between the golf sw and the golf TSI? Did the SW have a non-TSI motor?
I’d love a 6speed stick but I’d gladly take the dsg as second best.
The US-market Golf wagons had the same 1.8T TSI engines and transmission choices as the hatchbacks – 5 speed manual available in low-end models only, 6-speed torque converter automatic in other models. The 2015 TDI wagons when they were available also paralleled the hatchback offerings – choice of 6sp manual or TSI auto in all models.
The upcoming AWD Golf Alltrack wagon will be the first to offer a 6-speed manual with the 1.8T TSI gasoline engine – and only later in the model year, and no word yet on whether any Alltrak will offer the stick or only low-end models. Likewise, the DSG auto will be offered with this engine for the first time (I think).
The 2017 order guide has been leaked, and the GSW S 4-Motion and the Alltrack in all trim levels will be available with 6 speed manual or 6 speed DSG.
Indeed. And 4-Motion is even available in the manual S trim Golf wagon, which is pretty amazing.
http://media.vw.com/release/1212/
Even the sel? My fil will be taking his buyback for an alltrek replacement and I didn’t see the stick on the sel when I looked. As of now I’m telling him to reserve an se and I’ll take care of wheels or whatever else he wants up-trimmed.
Has the EPA even approved the proposed fix? And if so, why hasn’t Volkswagen published the fix, in detail, and its shortcomings? Since my car has been in two accidents (one my fault, one not), I absolutely am going to take the money and run, but I know the fix itself will be the deciding factor for a lot of people.
I saw a Jetta TDI SEL while on the way to to work this morning, and it made me wonder if VW will sell diesels here again.
I doubt it. Their new religion is EVs, with no mention of diesels.
Makes me laugh every time I see a 2009+ TDI. I have no sympothy for VW.
Bad thing is, I want to like them, or at least a two (three?) door Golf with a manual. The rest, including Audi, has no appeal to me whatsoever. I wish Ford offered a 3 door Fiesta 1.0L EcoBoost here. That’d be the ticket.
As far as older VWs, I kinda like the Gol…I mean Fox. Give me a coupe or one of those two door wagons. Like the Suzuki Esteem, I have an affinity for no-fuss, no-frills economy cars. I’d have to get a Gol badge for it, though. :)
I also liked the Audi Coupe GT from the 80s. I finally got to drive one years ago, and I liked it as much as I thought I would.
I wouldn’t mind a Type 2 pickup, but there’s no way I’d pay what they go for. Even if they cost the same, I’d still love a Falcon-based Econoline pickup with an upgraded 250 c.i.d. I-6 (from a 70s Granada/Maverick) more. Call me biased, but I really do like the front/midship powertrain location better, even in Dodge/Fargo or Chevy/GMC guise. There is, or was, a Fargo A100 (same model name as Dodge? Not sure) pickup on Seattle craigslist, I love it! I like it all the more being that its a Fargo and not a Dodge, just to be that much more unique.
Rambling complete. Lol
Their coolest vehicles VW has are the GTI, the R, and the Tiguan. If I were VW, I’d sell those at cost, to keep image and sales at a somewhat decent level.
I have a 16 Golf Sportwagen SE tsi. Its a great running and handling vehicle for daily running errands, hauling stuff, etc. Ive been very impressed with how solid and well built the new MQB platform is. For road trips we use the 335d which isnt so great for in town short trips but is as good as it gets for long high speed runs.
What “frozen” inventory? Brand new ’15 Golf TDI’s have been on sale for months now, a quick scan of your local dealers’ inventory or cars.com will turn up a ton of them for sale right now. And while dealer are heavily discounting GTI’s and standard Golfs, the TDI models typically are shown at full list price. Is anybody actually buying them, and if so, at anywhere near list? Good questions.
My GF currently drives a ’15, and she has no plans to give it up. After a very positive experience with 5 years in a Jetta TDI, she waited and got exactly the Golf she wanted – color, tranny (manual), trim (SE), and lighting package (xenons etc). She’ll pocket the cash and let VW “fix” it. If it screws up performance and/or mileage (almost a sure thing), we’ll get it chipped and “un-fix” it. Then drive the snot out of it for the next 200k miles. It’s a fantastic car.
Deal of the Century?
You could get a very nice 3 year old Jetta TDI for say $13K. Then get $5K from VW to fix it, bringing your next cost down to $8K.
What am I missing?
Nice try. To get the cash from VW, you have to have owned the car PRIOR to when the dieselgate story broke, I think it was September ’15. If you buy now, you don’t qualify.
You’re right. EPA only withheld emissions certs on the ’16s. But didn’t VW issue a “stop sale” on all TDIs?
Stop sale was issued on new and CPO TDIs. VW dealers (or any other dealer) can still sell them used if they get traded or they acquire it at auction.
Example of a new ’15 on offer.. Tons of ’em out there:
http://www.chapmanvw.com/Phoenix-Volkswagen-2015-Volkswagen-Golf-TDI+S-V1504660.htm
Last week we were told a U.S.-style diesel deal in Europe “just isn’t possible” because it would “overwhelm” VW.
If that’s truly the case, shouldn’t VW simply go bankrupt, so that everyone they cheated in the same way gets the same deal?
Otherwise, aren’t they kinda getting away with this scandal?
I guess they have to weigh justice for the wronged owners with the effect a bankrupt VW would have on the Euro economy.
“zu gross um zu scheitern”…
Did Canada also issue a stop sale order? My local dealer has new 2015 TDIs listed for sale, but no 2016s.