To say that details on the next-generation Honda Civic Si have been limited would be a massive understatement. Honda fanboys — and even normal people — have been hungry for even the barest scraps of information.
Well, we finally have a scrap. The Los Angeles Auto Show recently let loose in a press release that Honda will introduce the tenth generation Civic Si at their expo in November. They also ended some of the speculation on what type of engine we can expect.
The new Si will stray away from the previous model’s naturally aspirated 2.4-liter four-cylinder and gain a turbocharged motor. Unfortunately, we don’t know which one is going to replace it. The most likely candidate would be a tuned version of Honda’s 1.5-liter VTEC turbo four already found in the Civic and upcoming CR-V. Although many are hoping for a detuned version of the 2.0-liter turbo from the Civic Type R, that seems less likely based on how Honda has done things in the past.
Either way, you can probably assume the engine will make somewhere in the neighborhood of 220 horsepower, rev high, and offer a six-speed manual transmission. Spy photos circulating the internet suggest the Si will arrive as a coupe, though sedan or hatchback variants can’t be ruled out. Aggressive styling cues, on the other hand, are guaranteed.
Before the Civic Si debuts in LA, the Type R prototype will make its North American debut at the SEMA show in Las Vegas.
[Image: Honda]
3 door hatch or 5 door hatch? A turbo 3 door Civic Si hatch is drool worthy. However I’m sure Honda will ugly it up.
There currently is no 3-door Civic hatchback. It’s unlikely Honda would make one just for the Si.
The implementation of the “sport” trim on the upcoming hatch makes it unlikely there will be an Si hatch. There isn’t enough separation between the two models to justify. Plus, it seems like they might be saving the hatch body for the Type R.
I don’t think it will be a hatchback as the hatchback is made in the UK and the Si is going to be made in North America, Canada specifically.
Exactly. The Si will be, as for the 8th and 9th generation, will be built exclusively at HCM1, in Alliston ON. And the Type R, like all hatchbacks, will be a Swindon exclusive.
Hurry up with this already.
I need to replace a lemon Focus ST and really like how the civic coupe looks.
What went wrong with the Focus, out of curiosity?
Cold start misfires.
Spent 58 total days at the dealer. Plugs, injectors and ultimately the cylinder head replaced. Still not fixed.
Heads up, the 1.5T in my 2016 Touring grinds (like holding a starter too long) on start up about 50% of the time.
Dealerships (yes plural) have caught it. Owners are being told it’s normal.
Uncanny, given it sounds exactly like the VTC Actuator grind my 2013 Si had…
hoping for the 5 door hatch! that would be awesome.
Is it me, or does it look like a 2006 Hyundai Tiburon?
In overall shape, yes. But all coupes and sedans are looking more and more alike. Wind tunnel tests will do that for you.
If a maker really wanted to stand out, it would announce the “radical”, “new” three-box concept and tout its advantages: ample headroom front and rear with upright seating, great visibility in all directions, a near-vertical rear window that doesn’t get dirty or cause glare, and a huge trunk opening for large suitcases, Ikea boxes or dead bodies.
They’d sell hundreds of ’em.
As an owner of a 2013 Golf TDI 6-mt, expecting to take the buyback end of next year, I am watching Honda and Mazda develop,nets with key interest.
I want something with a little more grunt thsn Honda’s 1.5T. What I don’t want is a car that screams “boy racer,” as I am a 50-something allied health professional.
Will the Si be too … loud? The Civic hatchback is already cutting it close.
The Acura ILX is based on the Civic, comes with the 2.4L found in the old Si and Accord though I’m not sure if it’s tuned more like the Accord or Si.
Although it appears you will have to buy used to get another 6MT :(
6spd manual ILX was only available with the 2.0L so the manual transmission disappeared all together when they dropped that as a base engine choice.
The ILX 6-speed was paired with the 2.4 liter in either the same spec as the Si of the day or very similar. All that was missing was the helical LSD.
http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2015-acura-ilx-new-car-review-227833
They dropped the 2.0 at the same time they dropped the 6MT but the 6MT was tied to the 2.4, 2.0 was only available with an automatic.
I don’t see how they can use the 1.5 for this frankly. There’s no magic to this motor, the spec sheet reads identically to ford and vw’s modern engines. They’ve got a bit higher compression, but slightly less boost than what you would see in a 2.0t. They could undoubtedly strengthen internals, go big turbo and crest the 200 mark with ease, but it would certainly be laggy as hell with very limited options for tuning. The 1.5t has the same cooled manifold, same timing adjustments on both sides and a mono scroll turbo. It doesn’t have the variable valve lift (i-vtec from honda) that vw and ford both have on their performance engines. That’s the big difference between the Honda 1.5 and 2.0, variable lift and a half litre of size, at least according to what I’ve read so far.
My money is on honda using their 2.0t for the si and r, for both competitive reasons and to get some volume on the motor externals.
The European 1.5T has “real” VTEC (on both the intake AND exhaust cams) and some other stuff. If they apply those techs 220 or so HP is no problem. The road legal Mountune Fiesta MP215 makes 215HP out of 1.6L. 208 GTi makes a Euro 4 certified 205HP out of 1.6L. BMW M3 makes 425HP out of 3L. And a lot of these engines are underrated. Honda can do it. They’ve never under-delivered with HP before and I don’t see them starting now.
Oh it’s definitely possible, and there are already sub 2 litres doing this on both sides of the Atlantic (mini, juke, fiesta, polo). I think it would be a competitive disadvantage in the larger c segment where everyone else has tech equivalent 2 litre options though. I just think that there’s no escaping the lag vs top end compromise outside of fitting a very expensive turbo design, and even then it’s there. Being a half litre under only exacerbates the trade off here.
I have no doubts about honda matching or exceeding competitor hp. Where they’ve always under delivered is torque, and being down on displacement here would probably mean that trend would continue, although perhaps in terms of powerband spread instead of peak numbers. I just think that would be a shame, and wholy unnecessary as these engines are all but identical in terms of technology content.
I really hope they don’t decide to use the 1.5T, even the euro version. Aside from the bebefits of spreading costs of the 2.0T over a larger volume of vehicles, it also makes more sense for the tuner crowd, which is a big factor in Si sales. The 1.5T will have a lower ceiling for tuning purposes versus the 2.0T, at least if your talking about a non-race build.
Most 1.5T or 1.6T engines on sale in the US are around the 200 hp mark, so 220 or 230 hp as been speculated will already put the 1.5T into the range of a current 1.5T or 1.6T that’s been “tuned” by the aftermarket, so unless Honda is employing some new technology (increased complexity) on their 1.5T, I don’t see them getting there and still leaving a lot of room for the aftermarket to safely tune up from there.
Honda has been under-delivering on horsepower and torque in this segment for a while now.
They were/are out-gunned by Mazdaspeed3, Focus ST, and WRX.
Sure, the Si was cheaper, because it had to be, because it wasn’t playing in the same league as the others.
They better not come with the 1.5 for the Si.
Is it just me, or does this current design language work a lot better on the coupe?
I expect a detuned version of the CTR’s 2.0T, because it needs to compete with the Focus ST, GTI, and WRX on power and torque. I agree with Tedward on this.
As for body styles, I thought we basically knew the Si was arriving in coupe and sedan form only, but I’m not sure where I read that. If true, that might partially explain why the “Sport” version is hatch only.
I’d love to see an Si hatch though. I sat in a new EX-L Navi hatch last week, and I think I’d prefer that configuration to the sedan. I even think it looks cool, in a funky/functional way. Heck, if the 6MT Sport version with 180 hp feels strong enough and the Si rides too hard for the city, I might even go for the Sport hatch over an Si.
The 2.0 makes a lot more sense for responsiveness I would imagine, plus it could help lower CTR prices because of scale. A 1.5T can be tuned to 200HP for anyone with an EX with a chip.
Yes, the 2.0T would help for scale with the CTR, and also the next Acura ILX, which I seriously doubt would use a 1.5T. And, because the ILX will definitely have an automatic, the rumors of an automatic in the Civic Si could very well be true. May as well get the most out of the drivetrain development costs. Hopefully it’s a version of the current ILX/TLX’s 8DCT.
A version of the 2.0T could (should) even go into the larger TLX, just as BMW, Audi, and Cadillac have spread their 2.0T’s into larger cars like the 5 Series, A6, and CTS.
What a bore!
I was hoping for an NA SI, now that “objectively faster, come what may,” contingent gets the turbo’d R to play with.
Half of Honda’s sporty car fan base, became Fanbois on account of impossibly high rev ceilings (and shift action at least a few notches above the rest.)
I guess there’s always the chance Acura is allowed to revive itself, by fitting a tradition proper vtec revver in the new chassis. Might even make some sort of sense, as the original vtec demographic is supposed to shop for Acuras now, leaving Civics for their kids. Can’t imagine a more wholesome car ad, than son and dad along a sinous Cali coastal road. Kiddo tearing it up in a modern turbo’d Honda, with daddy in hot pursuit banging off upshifts at 9X00 rpms in a similar boned Acura…
Honda/Acura have a track record of producing exceptionally reliable engines.They rarely drop the ball! I suspect that the 2.0L with a turbo putting out 220hp.250 or so ft.Lbs would satisfy this equation I’m an Audi guy but I’m more than willing to admit that Honda knows how to make a bulletproof efficient fun to wind out engine.