Gather round, gather round.
You probably know of a friend who’s just tickled pink over their recent vehicle purchase, someone who likely spends too much time describing in awed tones just how nifty, neat-o and awesome their luxury crossover’s standard equipment is. It does this, and this, and they’ll never accidentally back over a neighbor’s kid again, or spend all day shoulder checking before a lane change.
Meanwhile, you’re gently nodding, wondering where squirrels sleep or how birds turn in unison, because you’ve got the same tech in your midsize domestic car. You could have dropped even less cash on a compact with the same convenience and safety aids.
Technology once reserved for high-end models has trickled down into plebeian rides, making it commonplace, affordable, and thus mundane. So, does “luxury” really matter anymore?
Gone are the days when the latest in stereo technology (with tape deck!) and front-wheel anti-lock brakes were only found in Baroque personal luxury barges stuffed with velour, topped with vinyl, and cushioned by 15-inch whitewalls.
A quick spin in a modern-day Ford Fusion, Hyundai Sonata or Chevrolet Malibu would have that wide-lapelled owner thinking man had populated the moon and continued on to Mars. Take away the time machine, and any potential Mercedes-Benz CLA buyer could find the equipment they’re looking for in almost any compact car, while paying far less. Why is the luxury field, and all of its “premium” offerings, still a viable segment?
This really begs the question, “What is luxury?”
I’ll bite and offer up my opinion that luxury goes beyond content. It’s more than technology (though some of the real gee-whiz gizmos can only be found on the highest automotive shelf). It’s a matter of panache, it should be a matter of quality (money, of course, doesn’t always buy sturdiness), and status.
There’s room for luxury automakers in this world, but only if they don’t phone it in. The roundel badge or tri-star needs to mean something beyond decades of heritage and hard-won consumer trust. A luxury vehicle needs to make the owner feel special, all the time, and not let down after riding in a friend’s sedan that cost $40,000 less.
People can blow their dough on whatever they please, but I’m of the mind that extra money should warrant something extra special. More silence, more comfort, more attention to quality, to materials, to the little things that could be overlooked. Luxury needs to be felt, because it’s no longer a checklist of the latest gadgets.
Luxury is space.
I will follow you anywhere. But not too closely, of course.
I would add quietness and adequate power for wafting. So any large, high-powered Buick really.
I shudder at the thought of a 15 year old, high mileage Buick/Chevy. A 15year old, high mileage Lexus/Toyota? Not so much.
The hell you say!
Well, it’s your money. More old GM stuff for me then.
Although, really, I’d prefer a 25-30 year old Buick/Chevy.
You haven’t been following the Church’s teachings.
Honestly in my experience the church of the 20 year old Toyota is much like the Church of Scientology…you are going to be writing checks.
At the risk of being excommunicated (I respect the w/h body and all things 3800), on the luxury front I’d say any flavor of older Avalon, ES, or even V6 Camry blows the old GMs out of the water. Much higher interior quality, superior NVH and refinement, superior quality of under hood components (things like power steering pumps, alternators) and other ancillary components like fuel pumps. Transmission longevity I’d again give to Toyota. In the GMs strengths I’d put motor resilience in the face of deferred and missed oil changes and better highway fuel economy (My ES eked out 26mpg yesterday, it’s sits at 2750rpm at 70ish mph).
As a A-b beater I can see the argument for an old w or h body, but if you prioritize “luxury” in the sense of a solid body structure, smooth but controlled ride, high quality interior and smooth motor, I’d say V6 Toyotas rule the roost.
I like Lexus and Toyota products but I definitely don’t think a 1G Avalon vs a Park Avenue or V6 Camry vs Regal GS or Intrigue results in a “blow out of the water” victory for the Toyota stuff. And, I don’t have any personal experience with the Chevy truck but they seem to have a decent enough reputation.
Lexus plays in a slightly different playground and the Cadillacs of yore don’t really hold up there.
GM has a few major stink bombs out there (most Cadillacs, the N-body, CVT Saturn’s, most of the U-bodies, Aveo), but the rest has generally been in the average to above-average range.
I can understand having a preference for the Toyota/Lexus but “shuddering” over owning a 2001 Buick or Chevrolet seems crazy.
I wouldn’t “shudder” at the gm either, but the Toyotas are screwed together substantially better IMO, with better materials and components.
If reliability is a concern an Avalon or LS would do the job.
el scotto,
I shutter at the idea of a 15 year old high mileage Toyota/Lexus. Buick has a great reputation for durability. Toyota isn’t magic.
Brn,
And an older domestic is far cheaper to repair, usually. A sensor for my Taurus is 1/6th the price of a similar sensor on a Toyota. I’ve owned both. I didn’t “end up” with a Taurus by accident.
People who rave about Toyota dependability are the ones who trade in their Camry for another (now with BOLD, ALL NEW bumpers and lights) one in 3-5 years. 130k and no problems! Wow! Better than Uncle Jack’s 98 Chrysler of which he’s the 4th owner of! Super reliable and trustworthy! Stupid inbred aholes in their 10 year old Tahoe! Don’t they know what is the only choice?
Unike you guys, and Jack, there is reason to give most any car the benifit of the doubt, unless research shows it to be particularly known for issues.
There were a lot of owners of older domestics in the “keeping cars longer” article. I don’t think many of them live in constant fear of being stranded.
brn go for a ride in my 20 year old ES300 that just rolled up on 206k miles, I don’t think you’d be “shuddering.”. It made the trip out from Indianapolis to Central PA just fine yesterday, comfy carefree cruising. According to records in its total lifetime it’s had a timing belt change, valve cover gaskets and an O2 sensor done somewhere around 150k, as well as CV axles rebooted at around the same time. A bit of exhaust work and a front wheel bearing at 193k. When I bought it at 203k I replaced swaybar bushings and did brakes all around. Am now going to replace the t belt since it’s due, and will probably replace the rear struts in the spring. That’s it in 2 decades and over 200k miles of service. Okay so in a perfect world id refresh the rear engine mount as I can hear a clunk when shifting into reverse.
My Lexus is a rolling refutation to John’s rambling rants. There’s definitely folks that have gotten excellent reliable service out of domestics, but to claim that Toyota’s reputation is some sort of conspiracy and that everyone who buys them is brainwashed because they’ve gotten fantastic service out of them is just plain delusional.
@gtemnykh…
As long as we are going all anecdotal, my 20 year old Land Cruiser experience would confirm the pro domestic stance in here.
Thething with all of this old iron is that the previous owners are a bigger factor than build quality at the 200k mark. Some people’s Land Cruisers do go 400k. I’m betting they maintain it. My POs maintainance regimen resulted in a shiny new short block at 225k and yes, parts cost more than they did for my Bronco which was over 300k but had been well kept since new.
Big all I’d say theres more of a pro maintenance stance here, one that i think that we can all agree upon. Your neglected LC still made it to 250k, how is that something you can point to as being bad? I’ll argue that it is less likely (not impossible) that a w body GM of the same age would have gone the mileage my ES has with as few of issues in 2 decade’s worth of use. We can trade anecdotes all day long, but I’d argue the data in terms of numbers of these anecdotes is strongly on my side. Why was GM in such dire straits and Toyota booming? Why did all those old folks swap their Centurys for avalons and camrys? My fiance’s family is a typical example: GM people living in Indiana, after a Pontiac transport that had endless issues at onely a few years old, they bought a Highlander in 05 that they drove to 170k with absolutely minimal fuss outside of maintenance up to 2013. They now buy exclusively Toyotas and I don’t think it’s because they’ve been brainwashed in some way.
I’m not trying to be pro domestic or pro import. Both make good cars. Both are reliable, as long as they’re cared for.
I’d never buy a 15 year old anything, because I don’t know how it was cared for.
On the anecdotal front, I’m looking out the window at the Mercury I sold my neighbors. 18 years old, 250K on it, still looks like new. It’s had front bearings replaced and a new alternator. That’s it.
We can be anecdotal all day long.
I worked in a GM store and know those Buick 3800s are extremely reliable. I bought a then 10 year old 2000 Lexus GS, the reliability of a Buick, but better materials and put together to a far higher standard. I would say Lexus from 1995 to 2004 is their golden age. After that, they slip a little and the competition gets better.
I owned a 3800-powered Buick from 1993 to just a couple of months ago, so I know of its goodness. But the rest of the car? The 2001 Lesabre that I just gave to my in-laws was one of the worst cars (foreign or domestic) that I have ever owned, in terms of how much stuff broke on it before even hitting 100K miles.
I’d take a Toyonda any day over it. I no longer have any GM vehicles in my fleet. My daily drivers are a 1997 Civic and the wife drives a 2001 Odyssey.
Not that much more expensive to fix Japanese cars, and you don’t have to as often either.
I cut my teeth on American cars, owning everything from a 1941 Chevy to the 2001 Buick, and now I’m driving Japanese.
But because I am an automotive masochist, I have a 1990s VW and Volvo too. I don’t claim those to be reliable either but I do my own work, and they are fun to drive.
Exactly. You don’t see too many 20 year old Toyota/Lexus around but you see plenty of GM brand models in the junk yards.
Bias!
Buick…yes indeed
This
This what? Or you passing pointer to the class object.
Ut oh I got a null reference exception…
This = Luxury is space.
So a Ford Transit is the new Benz?
Luxury is if you have enough money to throw your 401K funds away for no good reason. I just came back from SF auto show. Many people were sitting in E-class barely breathing gazing in awe at dashboard – it was hilarious to watch. Paint me unimpressed by MB. BTW saw CT-6 first time. For sure this car is far from being flagship and has no formidable presence of Cadillacs of the past. I had to check out the badge to be sure that it is not CTS. And what is Cadillac’s fixation with cheap looking piano black plastic in interiors?
BTW always check pointers before dereferencing, I am sick and tired of people not doing that. But how this can be a null pointer?
Yuck. Big cars suck.
You don’t need volume to have a comfortable, waftable car.
As much as I dislike huge cars, I think a long wheelbase is necessary for a comfortable ride. The old Ford/Merkur Scorpio with its wheels near the corners managed to have decent interior space and comfort in a quite compact car.
A driver’s seat right at the midpoint between axles, 50-50 weight distribution and most mechanical weight between the axles, goes a long way towards making a shorter car comfortable. That’s the old 3 series formula. A transaxle would likely make it even better.
For comfort both front and back, you do need wheelbase, as BMW’s traditional driver position focus, pretty much seats passengers right on the rear axle.
All these points. Add soundproofing, which is IMHO intentionally shorted in cheaper cars. You need more power than you actually need. Power seats with memory (Stock on lots of cheaper cars, but oddly an option for BMW/Infiniti sticker price bumping). Engine in front, RWD or AWD-don’t try to do it all with one side of the car…if you drive gently this one you won’t notice.
Good seats are a must…a stereo that isn’t just ‘add boomy’.
Doors must have a solid closing sound.
A Kia might have the exact same gadgets but you won’t mistake it for a BMW/MB/Caddy/Audi
I had a Merkur Scorpio with a V6. That car felt just right in terms of power, driving dynamics, cabin visibility and practicality.
Multiple Merkur Scorpio owner here as well. I agree that for it’s time it had amazing balance and the added bonus of beautiful, sumptuous Connolly leather everywhere on the seats, even in places you couldn’t see, like inside the map pockets!
Having said that, by modern standards the Scorpio is a bit underpowered, but not dangerously so – it gathers speed confidently if a bit slower than we’ve all gotten used to now. The power in most modern vehicles is intoxicating, no doubt. I still miss that amazing Connolly leather though.
Wheeljack, did yours have a rubber hand pump for the lumbar support inflation? Woo!
Yes, mine had the hand pumps for the lumbar. Unfortunately those air bladder lumbar systems on not just the Scorpio but on other cars of the era are notoriously leak prone and unreliable. You could feel mine pumping up, but then you could also feel the air leaking right out as you finished pumping.
It was kind of a bummer as everything else in the car worked…
In 90s I considered buying one of those, but they were called Ford Scorpio, no Mercury. It was a luxury car essentially but 4 cylinder engine let it down – was far behind times compared to Toyota e.g. or BMW engines. Nevertheless the version with 3.0L DOHC V6 was a hoot to drive. Very impressive machine, it made me a Ford fan since then. But there were few reasons I could not eventually buy it. Being RWD it was dangerous to drive on the snow and snow was there from November to April. It was also prone to rust in rear panels. And more importantly the version with 3.0L DOHC V6 was too expensive for me and was also prohibitively taxed – Anything larger than 2.0l was heavily taxed by so called Government. Tax friendlier version was 2.6L V6 but it was not the same animal so I considered also Mondeo which also was too expensive compared with Japanese cars. So I ended up with Toyota – the practical decision which I regretted for the rest of ownership.
What the hey does “waft” mean in a car context? I’ve only ever used that word to describe how stink travels.
Generally, a car with lots of torque. Something that seems to move effortlessly get to whatever speed you want to go. Think Bentley Brookalnds with 775 ft-lbs.
The exact opposite of something that that you have your foot to the floor and wind out to redline to make any sort of decent progress. These are cars that seem to convert gasoline into dB, rather than MPH…
Thank you. I’ve driven a couple things like that. I’ll file “waft” away as:
“Going way too f*cking fast unless constantly monitoring speedo”
Waft is no drama “torque to meee”. Think an old big block with a 2 bbl carb. No kickdown, no drama, just pull to pass. Compare to the 4 cyl turbo that may be equally fast but will get all mad and shake as it comes on boost…
Luxury to me is NOT a blown four. That belongs in a GTi, or a WRX, or some such….when you want north of 50k, six pistons at least, and then maybe forced induction…but no, a four won’t fly in a CT6, an E class or a BMW above “entry level”.
Speedlaw,
I think your kickdown complaint has more to do with transmission programming than with the number of cylinders.
A good turbo 4 will give you that same feeling of effortless power in a manual, or if you hold a gear manually in an automatic.
My old Saab can go from a walking pace to nearly 100 mph in third, no drama, no noise, just that firm push in the back that you feel when a 747 takes off.
Modern automatics gear-down to the red line, then slam up every two seconds, and then shift the engine into eight, ninth or (next year) tenth as soon as you let-off the gas.
The reason why old big blocks didn’t kick down is that they had nowhere to kick-down to. They only had three gears, first was useless on the move, and they made no power past 3,500 or so.
My old Chrysler had to rev like crazy to hold highway speeds. Mind-you, it was geared for the double-nickel era, but it really didn’t sound happy at 80 (and I couldn’t afford to hold it there for long anyway). By comparison, my friend’s new Volvo revs around 2,000 at 80, and it only needs the slightest touch on the gas pedal to turn that into 100. That’s what big blocks should have felt like, but they never did.
In the context of automobiles “waft” means that a car rides like the wind and goes like stink.
“rides like the wind and goes like stink”
Ah… a softly sprung diesel, then.
Really? So why does a MINI feel luxurious compared to a Fiesta?
Does it?
Because Minis cost alot more to develop and build?
Because Mini isn’t trying to save $2.00 per unit on interiors. They understand that people buy them because of their interior finish, not despite it.
I have worked on both old Fords and older BMW’s so I’m sure even if Ford only save 2.00 pr interior piece, they save twice that in assembly time.
Nowadays ‘Mini’ is technically a premium brand so they charge more for them , but in the ‘good old days’ they just sold them with a massive loss, since the competing Ford Cortina was so cheap to build.
Just a minor correction: Minis competed with the bizarre-looking Ford Anglia, not the Ford Cortina.
The Ford Cortina was a much bigger class of car (the Ford Taurus of its day), competing with the Morris Marina.
Agree 100%.
A MINI feels rock-solid, over-engineered, and worthy of its price, because (talking 3rd gen, F-series MINIs) they are really F-series BMWs beneath the skin, and benefit from all of HQ’s R&D and parts bin.
Fiestas are an ergonomic nightmare, populated by cheap plastics, and bargain-bin parts. That’s the difference!
If I paid 6-7K more for a smaller car with less power, I would be seriously disappointed if the interior wasn’t of a better quality. Between a Fiesta ST and Cooper S we’re talking a 6k difference in just a few cubic feet of space. That should pay for quite a lot of design and materials.
It’s not just the interior materials though. You cannot get a Fiesta with iDrive and an 8.8″ screen. You must have SYNC (barf!) and a postage stamp for a screen. You cannot have LED headlamps, you cannot have an HUD, etc…, etc… Your stuck with what Ford allows you to have, as-is, off the lot. MINI gives you probably 20 different choices for the seats alone!
Yep, the ability to tailor your car for your desires and needs is definitely an important luxury. I doubt Ford has any ambition of making the Fiesta a ‘premium’ car.
This x100. I drive a lot of rental cars that have interiors that are a mishmash of misaligned silver and black plastics. Kia’s, Chevy’s, Toyota’s, Hyundai’s, Chrysler’s, etc…. It always makes me really appreciate getting back into my 2015 GTI. People think it is all about the stat sheet but I spend a lot of time behind the wheel experiencing my cars interior and very little time studying stat sheets.
Because a Fiesta has the most impoverished interior on the market? Who valued out the lock switches and made the interior door pull so flimsy it fails inside of 20K miles? OTOH, I wouldn’t be surprised if even laughably pathetic Ford spends more money on the quality of the wiring in a Fiesta than Been Made Worthless does on the Mini’s entire electrical system.
Space. And solidity. I’m a lux owner, and whenever I get into, say, a Honda Civic, I’m astonished at how flimsy the whole thing is.
IMO “status” is the primary feature.
Luxury matters to those who care.
Exactly, SCE. (And I’m a little puzzled that it took 15-20 posts for anybody to address the topic of the article.)
Luxury matters because buyers think it does.
There are two kinds of luxury: Actual luxury, exemplified perfectly well by an Avalon, LaCrosse or Accord Touring, and badge-whore luxury. Arguably, the former is going out of style because it’s become rather affordable to buy. The latter will never go out of style, because our species is hard-wired with the need to appear superior to our peers.
Which, of course, is why you’ve still got suckers lining up around the block to lease a stripper 3-Series for way more than that Avalon.
JB crystallized this best in his CLA review…. the CLA had a “cheap” seating position, like sitting on a dining chair, whereas pretty much any “real” luxury car has a more reclined “feet out” seating position.
That said, luxury brands don’t do themselves any favors. Cases in point…. ATS gauge cluster. $80K cars with 4 bangers, vinyl interiors and blanked out buttons. Etc. In their bid to cut costs they’ve given away that edge.
Personally I think the final frontier is interior design. That’s much of what materially sets apart something like an E-Class from a fully loaded Camry. With the right engines I’d be hard pressed to get any ~40-50K luxury anything over a 2.5T/2.2D Mazda.
I agree with the Mazdas. Before purchasing my latest round of Mazdas I test drove the latest E, M, and C class Mercedes, the BMW 5 and 3 series, as well as the Range Rover Evoke. Only the Evoke impressed me. And, it was only the interior design/luxury of it which was impressive. The ride was rough, visibility was poor, and it was somewhat loud.
“The ride was rough, visibility was poor, and it was somewhat loud.”
All those things bothered you, so you bought a MAZDA instead? Hello?
$80k four bangers give buyers a choice. Some like the toys but don’t care about the engine. I agree with you and wouldn’t want a four cylinder at $40k, let alone $80k, but I don’t see the harm in making them available.
Mazda is doing a good job with interior design these days. If only GM could school them on how to get road noise under control at an affordable price point. It also wouldn’t hurt if they stopped making their own engines and bought them from Honda or Toyota instead.
I care very much about the engineering, and I would choose a 2.0T every time in anything E-class size or smaller. Because I care about efficiency AND performance. In a luxury car you won’t hear the engine enough to bother with anyway. And before DAL gets here, I definitely could not care less what it sounds like on the outside.
In a luxury car I care more about smoothness, sound, and performance. Fuel economy is not in the equation for me in that segment. I lean toward I6 or V8. The most recent luxury cars I’ve driven are a ’12 XF and ’08 550i – in both cases you could absolutely hear the engine inside the car, and they sounded fantastic. I’m not sure what current luxury cars sound like inside, but it would surprise me if an engine worth hearing was completely silenced.
Any small turbo, particularly at partial throttle, is laggy and nonlinear low down. Hurting “waftability” in urban scenarios. 2.0 in a 3er or smaller isn’t really THAT small, but in a bigger car, it’s much more annoying than larger NAs. Once up to more speed, the turbos’ broad torque plateau, does make them feel, in some ways, more luxurious than NAs that need to shift more and use more revs, so it’s a bit mission dependent.
For classic “Town Car” use (airport to country club to Steak House to corner office), the NA LS is preferable to any turboed German competitor, but the Germans make up for it if the airport is in LA and the steak house in Vegas.
I like the concept of “waftability”. I haven’t experienced it much with cars but I have after Mexican food. Effortless and powerful!
Drove a friend’s 428i back to back with my 330i. Both cars has sport suspension and seats. The 4 turbo is fast, but in normal around town the i6 is just better…no drama…smooth.
Luxury requires spending money where the average buyer won’t see it. Stiffer chassis. Better shocks, swaybars and bushings. Soundproof, soundproof, soundproof. A thousand small engineering decisions where do it cheap is do it better instead. They all together add up…which is why a set of old pontiac gages in an ATS stick out, or a hard plastic in a luxury brand, or the whole concept-reality of a CLA are hard to take.
Taken together, you get what DW (welcome back, btw) says in his Luxury Haiku…
You can’t toss some cheap stuff (bluetooth !!! Backup cam !!! In car Wifi !!!) and say luxury. It isn’t the same. If I attach my smartphone to the aux in jack of a Versa, I have full voice control mapping and such, but I’m NOT in a luxury car.
Are you in a luxury car when you’re driving a 4 cylinder 328i? It doesn’t feel like it.
The Ford 1.0L Ecoboost is a very small turbo. It’s got no discernable lag, and it’s extremely linear.
“I care very much about the engineering, and I would choose a 2.0T every time in anything E-class size or smaller.”
Does this mean you ditched the 235i after reading all of the scathing reviews? Or do you think it has a 4-cylinder engine?
Luxury is quality: features, fit, finish, feel, look, and sound. It’s the melding of all those things at a certain level, and without one (or more), the item moves closer to mass market.
To me it means quality of materials and assembly along with thoughtful layout and feel of controls. I mean real metal, wood, and fabrics with high quality finishes that are a pleasure to touch and have minimal gaps. I despise the fact that now it means every radar and laser guided widget and doodad under the sun.
I see two questions:
What is luxury?
Does it matter anymore?
Well, the second question depends on the answer to the first. In my mind it used to be power, dynamics, quality (if not necessarily reliability), content, comfort (while still sporty like BMW), the over-all experience.
When I look at a Kia Cadenza and all the content (more than many base “luxury” models), style (if a bit derivative), quality (highly ranked), power (more than enough), I am not sure why I would buy a 5-series over it except for RWD/AWD and brand snobbery (we own a 3-series).
Still the Cadenza isn’t going to have the driving experience or dynamics of a BMW or MB but it will probably very closely match a Lexus. But it isn’t that far off, at least numbers-wise, although the seat of the pants might tell a whole ‘nother story….
Still, BMW has gone soft… making the dynamics gulf that much smaller.
We have 174k miles on my wife’s E90 and I really can’t find a good reason (thing runs like a top) to buy another BMW over some of the cheaper brands out there.
You raise good points. I can’t help but think that BMW has been resting on its laurels in a way, but at the same time their sales performance says otherwise. Month-over-month and year-over-year sales records ever since the F30 generation came out.
I had two E90 328s before giving up on BMW and moving to a mainstream Japanese make. I got a new car with similar driving dynamics and more performance for a much lower entry price and maintenance cost, which I would never have been able to get with the latest models.
I’m not much for luxury, but I feel a Ford Fusion does a better job with overall interior quality and upscale feel than any of the new Bimmers I’ve been in.
Quiet cabin, nice seats, good power, nice stereo, if that means luxury, then by all means then yes, luxury is still important.
Cars in the $100,000 snack bracket provide exclusivity, a wonderful driving experience, and sphincter loosening maintenance and repair bills. If you can forgo exclusivity today’s automobiles offer similar features on cars in every segment making it harder for premium brands to differentiate themselves. Any of them will put a smile on your face without forcing you to eat beans every night to keep up the payments and running costs.
There are a few big things that still separate luxury from mainstream.
One is materials, although some luxury-brand cars (especially the cheaper ones like the CLA) screw this up. Soft-touch but durable plastics, softer leather, deeper-pile carpet, real wood, no light gray plastic, comfortable buttons and stalks.
One is a nice balance between ride and handling, either or both of which are neglected in many mainstream cars. Although not every luxury car gets this right. I recently drove a friend’s brand-new Jag XF 35t and was unpleasantly surprised by the harshness of the ride for a volume, non-performance model. A wide freeway expansion joint sent a loud and reverberant crash through the cabin, and routine bumps felt more M3 than C250.
One is quiet. More performance-oriented luxury cars don’t necessarily do this better than mainstream cars, but the comfort-oriented ones do.
The last is, still, features. My luxury car is 9 model years old, but still has some nice features you’re not likely to find on mainstream models today. Reclining, heated, and cooled (not just ventilated) rear seats. Power sunshade. Soft-close doors and trunk. Brake hold for long lights. Auto recirculate based on outside air quality. Lighted vanity mirrors for rear-seat passengers.
When people get into my car, the first thing they notice is usually the quiet and smooth ride.
Ummm….Jaguar?
I would love me some soft close doors, frankly.
Lexus LS 460.
And I didn’t think I’d care about the soft close doors, but over time I’ve come to adore them. No slams, no drama, just a gentle “click… whirr… click.” Although another aspect of luxury is that when someone does close the door hard it makes a nice solid thunk with no rattles.
Yeah, I had a Lexus back in the day. A mere ES300. 1994, got it in 2004. I absolutely loved that car. I get what you’re saying.
And an LS460 is, to the luxury market, what a Land Cruiser or a Hilux is to the third world truck market.
Although, I had to laugh at Hammond when he discovered that his choice of a “legendarily reliable” Land Cruiser for the Bolivia special mostly didn’t work:
“That makes this one more special. I have bought the only malfunctioning Land Cruiser in the world, and it is unique and therefore probably priceless.”
It was actually an article about the Land Cruiser that inspired me to start looking for LS460s. I didn’t want a truck, but I love what the Cruiser represents — engineering for durability without excuses. The LS460 is about as close as you can get to that in a modern sedan.
It has a few known issues (and the biggest one — fragile control arm bushings — I had to fix on my car), but nothing like any of its German competitors.
I’d say luxury is mostly badge/name based status and prestige for those who care for it or whose egos demand it.
Does it matter? I guess I’d say: see above sentences.
I guess the answer is maybe? I think it depends on what you’re comparing. For example before we purchased our 2017 Accord V6 we test drove a 2017 Accura TLX V6 for comparison. There wasn’t much of a difference in driving dynamics/performance between the two. Yes the TLX had more gadgets but the Accord had all the stuff we really wanted. The “extra” in the TLX was just fluff we didn’t necessarily want. So to us it made sense to save 1000s of dollars and go with the Accord.
Now if you compare an Accord to a S-Class then yes there is a difference. A difference that matters for some people who can afford the difference. If I could afford a brand new S-Class you can be sure I would have one instead of an Accord.
Aside from the good answers that others have given, the other thing to keep in mind is that merely checking off a list of technology items isn’t everything. In some cases, the implementations in low-cost vehicles don’t work as well, and exist just to fill out the feature list and make it look impressive.
But really, that just comes back to what several of the other responses say: attention to detail.
There are two factors –
1. Are you buying it for yourself or other people?
2. Do you want something to be ‘good enough’ or ‘as good as it gets’?
At one end of the spectrum, luxury brands distinguish themselves on ‘prestige’. You buy a Cadillac Escalade over a Denali to send a signal to other people.
At the other, people buy a Titanium trim Ford or a Limited trim Toyota when they care primarily about their own perception and getting something that’s good enough. Heck, a mid trim Fusion or Camry is a pretty nice place to be.
Maybe it was the case in the past that you had to buy luxury brands to get certain attributes, and it’s true to this day. High output engines cost money, RWD costs money, ect. But increasingly, luxury products are less differentiated than mainstream products.
Toyota broke the luxury market with Lexus – making Toyotas so good that they just needed some different interiors, body work, and suspension calibrations to become luxury cars. Now, everyone else realizes the genius of the formula – design the heck out of regular cars and make hand over fist money on high trim levels and luxury versions of the car. If Toyota makes money on LE Camrys, imagine the cash hoards they earn from Lexus ESs. Now, it’s common that the only point of buying a luxury car is the badge and the concierge’d ownership experience.
I’d posit that luxury hasn’t changed cars have just gotten better. Objectively, a Ford Fusion Sport dominates the 1990 LS400 (maybe Ford Fusion Sports won’t rack up the miles like an LS400 but I bet the Ford Fusion has a good chance of going 150k miles as a Lexus LS400 with the same servicing). The Ford Fusion Sport is quieter, quicker, gets better milage, more space, and costs less in constant dollars (and costs way less in inflation adjusted dollars), the Ford Fusion Sport might not ride as smoothly but it’ll kick the LS’ butt on a skidpad or track.
The major difference? The Ford Fusion Sport costs as much as an average new vehicle, the LS400 cost as much as the GDP per capita (and very quickly rose in price).
Luxury hasn’t changed. There just are fewer objective reasons to buy a luxury car.
“I’d posit that luxury hasn’t changed cars have just gotten better.”
Isn’t that pretty much always true across decades though? There are 26 years between the original LS400 and the Fusion Sport in your comparison. I would guess that even a Malaise Era ’75 LTD holds up pretty well against a ’49 Cadillac.
I guess the 75 ltd vs 49 Cadillac is a pretty accurate comparison. 26 year old ‘standard of the world’ vs some of the worst crap Detroit ever put together. (and I love 70’s Fords)
It’s the march of progress right? A modern Pacifica can give some malaise era Ferraris a run for their money.
But the price of luxury cars seems to be increasing (in some markets) and the gap between luxury cars and regular cars is narrowing as time goes on. A Lincoln / Lexus / Buick isn’t that much quieter than a Ford / Toyota / Chevy. But an Escalade is probably more expensive relative to the median wage than it has ever been.
The point isn’t that interesting – luxury brands are increasingly about branding differentiation with a receding emphasis on product differentiation.
For the record, the Lexus ES is no longer Camry-based. In 2013, they changed that. Lexus ES is now the upscale trim level of the Avalon.
It’s Camry based, it just has more in common with the Avalon (which is Camry based). Heck, they make the V6 version of the ES in the same factory as the USDM Camrys. And I think the ES350 / Avalon / Camry V6 even share an ECU part number and they all use the same battery pack on the hybrid version but I could be mistaken about that.
To me luxury is quality, refinement and sophistication. It’s all about making the journey effortless and soothing, no matter how fast you’re going.
It isn’t a box ticking exercise in having certain features or pieces of technology, but rather how those pieces of technology are designed and executed.
Meanwhile, I would like to know why Mercedes-Benz is still selling cars without keyless start. Did you know you could blow $85K on a GLS450 and still not have it?
So yeah, part of the perception of luxury cars is features. When every Hyundai has standard Bluetooth and every Honda has a standard backup camera, it seems a little insulting to be charged extra for either of those on a 3-Series.
However, the other part of that is design and execution. Some of that is down to not having to care as much about the utilitarian nature of a vehicle that happens to be a luxury model (like alcantara headliners or indeed cars that are entirely impractical to begin with), while in other aspects, it’s things like materials choices and attention to detail. In regard to the latter, I would assert that both Mercedes-Benz (starting with the 2014 S-Class) and Volvo (starting with the 2016 XC90) have significantly outclassed their competitors.
“…Mercedes-Benz is still selling cars without keyless start”
Good grief, no, I didn’t know that. My Optima has keyless start.
Hell, the Flintstones’ cars had keyless start.
The gap is closing with everyone using 2.0Ts, but I think luxury brands still make a difference.
Interior design and materials is a big one. Besides material choice, fit and finish, premium/luxury brands typically have more choices for interior color. Most cars under $35k only offer black or beige.
Luxury cars are mostly longitudinal engine, RWD or AWD, resulting in a better balanced car and a longer wheelbase for a given footprint, and therefore a better ride. I’m sure someone will try to tell me I can’t tell the difference in street driving; we’ll have to agree to disagree.
RWD or AWD help considerably putting the power down. Unless you like torque steer and wheel hop, I think this is universally accepted.
There are a lot of small touches in luxury cars that are not reflected on spec sheets. Things like 1-touch up/down at all four corners, heated mirrors/locks/washer nozzles, damped glove box, retained accessory power, flocked seat belt receivers to mitigate rattles, interior lighting that dims only after you have had time to exit the car, finished trunk lids, handles inside the trunk lid so you don’t have to touch the filthy lid, etc.
Even extras that are reflected on the spec sheet don’t necessarily work the same. For example, heated seats volume sellers often feel like a hot plate under your ass, and that’s it. BMW and I’m sure other luxury brands heat the bottom cushion, side bolsters, extending thigh support, and backrest. It’s also a gradual building heat instead of transitioning from off to too hot within 2 minutes.
Combine all this with better seats, consistent control weights, and often a better dealership experience, and it all adds up.
Just because a KIA has an impressive list of available options doesn’t mean you are getting the same car for half off.
A lot of things to a lot of people, but dive in by saying that to me, high *quality* is demonstrated by great fit and finish, which goes a long way to exuding a quality sense to the product.
I like my wife’s ’15 Grand Cherokee, and while the Overland and Summit models are priced like luxury SUVs from BMW, Audi and MB, the JGC has fit and finish that would result in summary execution in Germany: floor carpeting that overlaps and isn’t finished neatly, “A” pillar covers that seem like, well, plastic covers, haptics on the controls that feel like they’re from a $15,000 Chrysler 200, interior plastics that haven’t been completely shaved smooth, or grain patterns that are mismatched.
Terrible things? No, not at all, but step into a new Q5 or Q7 and then get back into the Jeep and you’ll do a major double take.
Except that Grand Cherokee rides as quiet, has a smooth V6 rather than a turbo 4 banger, and has more comfortable seats than the German competition. This coming from someone who just left BMW for the first time in 12 years.
jefmad, I agree. A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to drive a M-B GLS450 for a few days and found it underwhelming. The window sticker on this particular vehicle was $95,000, yet the leather was hard and had a nasty grain to it, and the infotainment system was annoying and unintuitive to use. The worst affront was the twin-turbo V6 that only makes 64 more horsepower than the Pentastar V6 in my new Challenger, and was much noisier (not in a good way) and coarser than the engine in my Challenger as well.
Having said all that, the one feature I did enjoy and only discovered close to the end of my time with the big Merc was the massaging seats. I do wish that feature was available in more “proletarian” vehicles.
In the first world there is little reason for buying a luxury car other than showing off your wealth. In the third world, on the other hand, luxury cars have all the quality and technology of first-world cars, while mainstream brands offer low-cost death-traps with very poor quality.
Luxury isn’t defined by features.
Luxury is in the bones, tissue & DNA.
A rides quality so plush words can’t do it justice.
A bank vault solid chassis.
Quiet as a European Cathedral built during the renaissance.
As detailed, in terms of finish & quality of material, as the finest royal wardrobe assemblage.
Enough refined horsepower & torque to out-race any force of mother nature, whether hurricane or earthquake.
These things represent true luxury.
That’s a little long for a Haiku. But I give it an 8.
If it is too long they’ll sell you a standard wheelbase Haiku, with a 6.
This is it, right here.
Bluetooth and parking cameras are not luxury. Those all come down in cost as manufacturing scales up.
A silent, utterly isolated ride is luxury.
Effortless, immediate power. Speed is conjured up magically.
An aromatic interior with quilted leather.
A palatial rear seat with reclining function, deployable Ottomans and massage functions. Heated and cooled, of course.
A delicate alcantara headliner.
Authentic wood grain trim, with carefully selected matching panels.
The cold, heavy, textured feel of solid metal knobs, switches and plungers.
Tech is just convenience–luxury indulges the senses.
Tech is a product of the times–luxury is timeless.
A 2016 Nissan Versa is not luxurious. A 1969 Mercedes 300SEL 4.5 is.
Amen. You could buy a 2005 LS430 with the rear seat package, and there’s a timeless style. Yeah it’s dorky with its bulging greenhouse. But an old Marantz receiver is dorky. So is a 1980 Seiko sarariman’s gold watch or a 40 year old Kitchenaid mixer.
But all these things are true cut above, best-in-class items that last a lifetime and look it. You can spot those from a mile away, and they always look the part.
Luxury is defined by those who dare greatly.
Welcome Back!
DeadWeight,
I’m very pleased you’ve decided to join us again.
I agree with your view on luxury.
Bullsh!t and bling on a basic volume platform doesn’t represent luxury. At best many who buy these highly blinged vehicle want to be told they have bought luxury to sate their egos.
True luxury is very expensive and have a special unique quality about them.
No Camry, Nissan, Ford, etc is true luxury or for that matter pickup based SUV or truck is luxury. They are highly blinged, leather lined profit makers.
Alright dang it, for once I agree with DW.
This is a good question. Chevy recently muddied that water some when they replaced their LTZ trim with the “Premier” badge.
I used to think “Lexus” stood for luxury, but seeing a Corolla-sized model in their lineup, No.
A car to be “Luxury” to me means big, soft, smooth, quiet, powerful and quality materials.
No 4 cylinder engines in sight, either!
I am very annoyed by the few “Premier” badges I have seen. The font the design, it looks like someone when to Pep Boys and purchased a “Premier” sticker from the rack right next to the badge that says “Limited Edition.”
Yeah, no kidding. It looks about as “Premium” as the “Flex-Fuel” plate on my car!
Yes. It matters. To some people. Not long ago I had sort of a quite stupid ‘epiphany’ of sorts. I have never been a fan of German luxury cars. I hate driving Mercedeses, and thought a Benz was only for people who hated driving. Also, they mostly make trucks, cans and Taxis. And then it hit me. A Benz is actually ment for people who hate driving. It’s not a car for people like me who go for a quick spirited drive, and who don’t have to sit in my car for hours at a time. They are built in a way that lets you sit there all day, without getting tired, or deaf, or stressed out. And without thinking much about driving. And it hit me that they are actually quite good at exactly that. I guess that is a luxury to some.
Also once at a small local auto show, where lots of dealers show off their car, the loca Vag-dealership had a then new mk5 golf sitting next to an then new A3. Same platform, same engine , more or less base models. The Golf cost 3/4 of what the Audi did. So I sat down in the Golf, tried to get a decent seating position and let my hands feel the interior up a bit. Then repeated in the Audi, and yes, the Audi was easily worth the extra money.
I still dislike MB’s, and apart from hanging on to RWD I don’t like BMW’s, with their hit or miss designs, cramped interiors, lack of comfort and their running costs, and even if most Audis still look boring, I keep coming back to them as cars I can see myself buying. (used off course, and so far I have owned 3 generations of Audi 100’s for short periods.)
If money was not an object I would go for something pre-war to show off. Luxury to me means exclusive, powerful, and huge. I guess a stripped out Rapide or Panamera could work as a daily driven family car just for the F of it, but I hate sensory deprivement coffins. I don’t want to pay extra to not hear the engine, or generally feel distanced from the driving.
As for me ‘hating’ automatics, I actually do like the way an electric car accellerates without any hiccups, so if I could get a stripped down model S, with a manually adjustable steering wheel and a smaller screen, I could live with that too.
Zyk,
I always read your comments so please have pity on old eyes and use paragraphing.
Sorry, I never really plan to make my comments that long :)
No problem… you gotta go with the flow!
Zyko…nice write, I’m familiar with the Audi vs ‘Dub difference. However the operating costs as years go bye are like any other over engineered auto from Deutschland-thought/design: hideous and remorseful. And for MBZ, if you have ever worked on one you would know what I mean. Never forget, an automobile is a tool like everything else Man-made; just another tool…that is why the Koreans are able to stay in the market, because Americans trade-in tools all the time
If we insist on slapping a tablet on the dash maybe we could do one that doesn’t loo like a 25 dollar black friday special from Way Mart. That would be a start.
I’m with you. I don’t understand the current German interior design ethos that has the infotainment screen look like an old ipad velcro’d to the dash like an afterthought. I prefer to have the screen integrated nicely into the instrument panel like it actually belongs there.
I don’t mind the tablet look. While it can have a non-OEM look to it, it allows you to lower the rest of the dash rather than building it up to house the screen, which is appreciated considering the otherwise rising belt lines.
Of course, the screens used to be mounted lower in the instrument panel, so you could have a more integrated look and a low dash. For some reason that doesn’t seem to be an option anymore. Maybe it takes your eyes too far off the road.
Different strokes for different folks I guess – I actually prefer the “high” dashboard in my Challenger – gives the interior more of a “cockpit” feel, which I kinda like.
I also like the black headliner in my car – I got really tired of the light colored headliners that designers were in love with, claiming it made the car “feel” roomier. You know what makes a car feel roomier? More room… :)
I look at the pic of the M-B interior that leads the article and wonder if anyone at M-B looked at that when it was done and asked, “Is this the best we can do?”. Because that interior is really a mess. Lots of nice individual things that are just not designed to look all of a piece.
Exclusivity. Quiet. The tactile feel of the bits you touch.
real luxury is being driven and trolling the internet while stuck in traffic.
…until robocar comes along.
Yes, keeping your feet up on a lounger chair in the back of a Maybach. That’s luxury.
I think there isn’t much difference between a nice, well equipped 35k family sedan and a 70k dollar luxury sedan. Sure, you have 375HP vs 275 HP, but really…
Now, once you get into 175k-300k, that’s where the difference comes in. The air is much more rarified there. Between 35k-80-90k…not so much. You’re paying for the hood ornament mostly.
You really don’t see a difference between a loaded Fusion and a loaded E-Class (or even a base E-class)?
I guess I’m jealous.
I’ve been driving in a several year old MB E350 for a while now, picked up like in new condition from a friend’s dealership in Grand Blanc, Michigan.
It’s world’s better than any Fusion. The difference is quite dramatic.
The Fusion is competitive in the CamCordima class, but no where near an E Class.
The E Class is a stress-free driving machine that has a definite premium feel in details large and small.
Wasn’t really thinking of a Fusion, but a loaded Accord or Avalon. Sure, that Mercedes door closes with certain authority that the Accord will never match, but for 35k extra? No, not in my book.
As for the Fusion, even in the Titanium trim, I wasn’t impressed. Large panel gaps, cheap interiors. Didn’t look like a $35k car that’s for sure.
Interesting take. I haven’t tried an Avalon but I would consider the Fusion more premium than an Accord. I find the Accord noisy and it crashes over bumps rather than absorbing them. When I test drove the Accord I decided I would rather continue topping off coolant in my near 200k mile 5-series than pay four bills a month for an Accord.
Anyway, that brings me to the value equation. I certainly understand if someone doesn’t think a premium/luxury car (maybe we’ll just call it more expensive?) is worth the premium, I just wanted to point out that it is in fact more than a badge and marketing.
As I have LONG said around here, if you can’t tell the difference between a loaded CamCordFusima and an actual premium car, buy the loaded beigemobile and spend the $10-30K you saved on something you care about. I’ll take my relatively pauper-spec 328i over the most hard loaded mid-sizer any day of the week. Yes, it will cost more to run. I don’t care, it’s worth every single penny.
Several people here get it – it’s not about the toys, it’s about the details.
Deadweight, I could not agree with you more. I would not even compare the mid-sizers with a C-class, never mind an E. Ultimately in each class I think all the premium/luxury choices are quite good, which you prefer is a matter of taste. Even Cadillac is a step above in a way that Lincoln is NOT. Despite their not sweating the details enough, they at least are trying.
I do agree with Carrera that “luxury” really starts at six figures. Less than that is premium, not really luxury. But still a big leap from a loaded Accord.
Premium is a better word, I agree.
I was going to say the same thing about the C-class in response to DW’s comment. Even the so called “cheap class” has an easy confidence that most non-premium cars can’t match.
I think the question should be “do mass market brands matter anymore?”. Margins on mass market cars are non-existent. The Detroit 3 survive on truck and cuv sales, while luxury vehicles make up a minority of sales but may approach a majority of profits. Chinese and Mexican production will only accelerate this trend.
Swanked-out pickups and SUVs are the new American luxury vehicles. Everything else at their price level and beyond is Euro-centric ponce bait.
The biggest difference for me is rear wheel drive. Compare a Maxima vs a Q60 an Avalon vs a GS a Camry V6 XLE vs a C300 Accord V6 vs 328i. It makes such a huge difference in driving dynamics, especially with today’s high horsepower figures.
I agree with you there. RWD has become a big selling point for me. I’d almost certainly go for a 320i over something like a GTI or Civic Si for that reason.
Luxury is material quality, chassis solidity, and mechanical refinement. Luxury is absent of serious compromises such as FWD and Bose.
We must be brothers from different mothers, rpn. I would only add “and lots of it”. Quality-built small cars are fine with me, but only mid- and large-sized ones really feel like riding with dignity.
Luxury = Alcantara
Now you’re getting somewhere, alcantara and hand stitched trim. But now, we are going a bit higher than 100k. I think true luxury starts well higher than 100k.
It’s a good thing for luxury cars that Trump was elected. I read someplace on Facebook that Obama’s EPA was planning on declaring the alcantara an endangered species.
@Ronnie, never forget what happened to the poor Naugah who was almost hunted to extinction for his “hyde.”
Seriously? A polyester fake suede? No.
Does Luxury matter?
Absolutely it does! The expectation now is your quasi entry level car will have luxury amenities once not found in pedestrian models and/or models that used to be pedestrian and are now luxury. Case in point: Chevrolet Suburban LTZ. MSRP for 72k or more. At that price point, it had better have the same options a BMW/Lexus/MB has: back up camera, remote start, navigation, heated/cooled seats, DVD player and more. 25 years ago a Suburban that outfitted with power windows was an upmarket family hauler. The price point reflected this as well.
I blame Chrysler for this whole problem. They came out with the 300 (non LX platform) back in what 05′? The common man could now get a fully loaded (leather, remote start, heated seats, sunroof, chrome, nice interior) rear drive, hemi powered monster that for the time, looked great and was priced in the mid 30’s. This car put everyone on notice that they had to up their game for the common man.
Christ, you should sit inside a new 300 Platinum. It kneels for no man.
A friend and I got new small cars right around the same time. He got a Hyundai Accent and I got a Honda Fit. He was impressed with all of the equipment and features that weren’t even available on a S Class Mercedes-Benz just 10 years ago. I told him forget that stuff, there are things that aren’t even mentioned on the Monroney sticker that used to be extra cost options like heaters, or carpet. Yes, there was a time when, if you didn’t pay extra, you didn’t get a heater in your car. When was the last time you saw a car with rubber mats like my ’68 Plymouth Valiant had? By the way, there’s a post about people keeping their cars longer. That Valiant was just 8 years old when we got it and with 98K miles it was used up that we bought as the proverbial $50 special (though we got another 20K out of it till the 170 Slant Six siezed).
Think about what is being debated here…it’s like why Lexus stopped relentlessly pursuing perfection, it’s why race-winners are determined by thousandths of a second, it’s why the rest of the World wants to hate us and be like us at the same time. It’s like debating: “What is Art” in the 1980’s, it is the Human enigma of boredom setting-in.
I mean all these words and why? For self defense, for venting, for re-assuring another within the same ilk? It’s like shooting the bull with your buds after work; sans a cold one. Even before my time people doing the same thing, yet actually doing something about it.
I think of the days of “customizing” ones precious freedom-ride; because that is what automobiles are. Before my time: improvisation through trial and error sometimes, others simply from inspiration, particularly as little was to be had “off-the-shelf”. Then as Time moved along, a generation born who became less fascinated with the automobile freedom, more distracted with the up and coming new technology. The new large government needed something to do, something to keep all the new employees working, so REGULATION began to dominate all and everything in their waking moments. As this pattern continued large corporations became even larger, they had more at stake in order to appease the stock-holders so they ventured on listening to the auto-columnists in the periodicals and putting their feedback into play(mainly: “America has to be like Europe and the rest of the “Western World”).
Meanwhile, time moved forward, a generation came into being that learned the definition of “terrorist”, news travelled faster with increases in technology, the World was shrinking, and the government and corporations were growing. All the while regulation and ultimate control reared its ugly head, and less became known of the freedom that was the automobile, and more it became just a tool; albeit in the color of your choice with the options you want(or can afford).
As the next generations came into age, suffocation was now everywhere. In education(diminishing investment)was the norm in the public school system, now being flooded with waves of new immigrants stuffing the bag that held the American Dream. More confusion, more culture-clash…more government, more corporation control.
In a nutshell, “luxury” is defined individually, as is Life itself; and it should be that way in a FREE Country, and so the reason for America. Have any of you even considered as you visit this site that less than 90 years ago most major cities still had traffic from horse-drawn? In the outlying areas the hooved still pulled the wheeled from mud and sand for lack of paved roads. Freeways and tollways did not even exist, and the automobile was still considered a luxury; WANT was the fascination that drove the market; DESIRE in Man is the factor and the answer I believe to your blog-queries. FASCINATION in something is the truth you seek, and the lack-of such the reason you debate “Luxury”.
Gizmos are not luxury, not by a long shot. Luxury (as with everything) is a mix of things, sounds and feel mostly. Oldschool things… does a door make a satisfactory *thump* when closed or does the dash use the same characters all over the gauges, buttons, sliders, inside of the glovebox? Does a +$100k car have gauges that would be at home in a 10 year old Smart car? (Looking at you, Jaguar F) Did someone make at least a rudimentary effort with the plastics that might get touched? I don’t need leather seats, leather-wrapped steering wheel (alcantara is nice though!) or leather-wrapped grab handles (Ferrari).
Also a luxury car should not have tablets for the middle console or the gauge panel. Nothing dates a car more than the entertainment system. The second Tesla stops updating the software in their appliances, they are gone and forgotten. I could go on but I’m not getting paid for this soo…
To a number of people buying cars, gizmos are luxury. “Look at how much stuff it has!” is always more impressive to most people than ” look at how that line intersects there” or ” feel how that just clicks and works”.
Luxury is about style, craftsmanship, and materials. All should be appreciably better on the luxury brand vs a mainstream brand. Cadillac and Lincoln fell from grace because for decades people could see the parts bin commonality with the basic brands. Many of the luxury brands are letting these things slip in favor of useless gadgets that might impress friends, but really add nothing to the ownership experience.
QOTD: Does Luxury Matter Anymore?
AOTD: Only as long as it comes inside a pickup truck. “Cars” are becoming irrelevant….
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Nah, come to the big city where parking garages have giant concrete pillars to navigate between tiny spaces. A vehicles size quickly becomes a hindrance when you live and work in areas with 10+ story buildings and underground parking garages where the cheapest parking available is 100$ a month. Small cars matter!
Not to me. Why would I want to live in such a place.
But many do. Personally I live in stretched-out Houston; it takes an hour in each direction to get out of the city and it’s suburbs..double or triple that if it’s rush hour.
That said I prefer a smaller footprint on my vehicles – easier to slog and handle. too bad I’m over 6′ and 200 lbs, so my choices are limited with small footprint options….
I’m in Houston too, traffic has really gotten worse in the past few years. My 14 mile commute from Cypress to Memorial City is 45 minutes on a good day to 1 hour and 15 minutes if there’s a wreck/rain/flashing streetlight.
Big Al – – –
Yeah. Just like Big Cities don’t bring out the best in people*, perhaps they don’t bring out the best in vehicles either?
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* Check crime rates in large vs small cities vs rural areas.
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“More silence, more comfort, more attention to quality, to materials, to the little things that could be overlooked” In fact it always was and still is.
I’d sum it up as a roomy grand tourer. I had the privilege of putting in many hours in a W12 Bentley GT both as drier and passenger. It is definitely a luxury car by any measure. Main points: great seats, super high quality interior materials and craftsmanship, effortless acceleration with more power than necessary to motivate a very heavy car, AWD handling to out corner many cars of greater sports pretension, quiet enough for easy conversation at high speeds with the top up or down, the list goes on.
Irrelevant? Absolutely. I would never shell out the bucks for a Bentley, not even in the used-car market. The things I do look for nowadays are mostly good seats (very adjustable and at a convenient hip entry point). Enough power to merge into a freeway from a short ramp, interior quiet at freeway speeds–things like that.
Luxury is exchanging cash for lack of effort. In essence, front-loading the hassle.
A luxury car has no gas cap; that’d be effort. Also memory seating. Very low NVH, as passing trucks don’t force you to listen harder to Bloomberg Radio. Luxury cars have blind spot detection so you needn’t crane your neck. They have adequate power for accelerating out of unpleasant situations. Excellent infotainment for choosing your audio experience without hassle. Navigation that doesn’t lose its place in parking garages, thus saving the effort of pausing at the exit so the computer can re-orient. Remote start from your desk via cell phone, to save the effort of putting on gloves because the heated wheel is already warm when you get to the car. Lots of USB ports so you’re not swapping chargers & cables during the family road trip. A very capable, controlled ride that never requires you to “take a break” for relief’s sake (think 6 hours’ drive with only 1 stop to pee). Adaptive cruise with automatic braking in stop & go traffic.
Luxury is all about reducing friction, saving effort, insulating oneself from the mad button pushing that is a car without dual zone climate control.
Give it up to FCA: the 200 platform, Grand Cherokee platform, and the LX platform have all these things. Crap on them all you like, you cannot fault the luxury experience in the top models. (The 9-speed aside, for some people)
I’ve put 60,000 miles on my 300C. At 90k, the entire car is rattle-free. I can cruise at 85 all day long (and have) and come out feeling better than I have in ANY of the cars I’ve owned (including two Cadillacs). Cubby storage could be a lot better and… well, that’s it.
“Luxury is exchanging cash for lack of effort.”
Oh Noes! I hope that doesn’t mean AVs will be horribly expensive!
“The 9-speed aside, for some people”
Count me as one of those people. I test drove a Jeep Cherokee a couple of years ago because I thought it looked cool. I was shocked — that transmission is complete garbage. I walked out and never gave a second thought to the Cherokee again.
Luxury is in the “eye of the beholder”. Sit in and drive an S class or an A8 and you’ll know right off the bat what luxury is and what it costs. To me the seat better be comfortable and able to easily position properly. The material used better fit right and look and feel nice. And everything should work as intended. The ride should be relatively smooth but controlled. And the car should be quiet. Performance should be adequate with at least mid 5sec. 0-60 times. But, I’ll add one thing you won’t see today on any car that I’m aware of. My ’92 Mercedes S400, perhaps the last mass market car built to a standard and not a price (and according to David E. Davis the most over-engineered car ever built in its day), had the driver’s interior mirror locked into the seat/mirror memory! I don’t believe today’s S Class has that feature. That was true luxury in a car the had an MSRP of $93k in 1992! Oh, and “Yes” it does matter to me but so does cost and that’s why I drive an Audi S3 and not a CLA 45 AMG or an M240i.
Most folks relate to the “brand” and features to define luxury, this is perpetuated by the Germans that are going downstream and capturing new customers with their established luxury branding.
It works well sales for the Germans have increased appreciably in the past few years.
The majority of the tech features coming from mostly the same suppliers are competitively priced. Most manufacturers have downsized engines to save money while increasing tech features to add perceived value for the customer.
If this tech gizmo costs $10, where can we save $10 on the rest of the vehicle.
Quality components are expensive, the reason any vehicle with quality the price increases appreciably. A good sound system is expensive, quality leather is expensive, wood paneling is expensive, a V8 is expensive to name a few. ABS, traction control, stability programs, back up cameras, navigation are inexpensive compared to a well crafted leather interior with genuine wood paneling.
A luxury vehicle must have quality components as a start, in addition to a few unique tech features. In addition to a V8, not a 4, not a 6 a V8 and appreciable waftability. In addition to being relaxing to drive at a higher than lower rate of speed.
Lets not forget that you have to feel very safe while driving.
Plus the all important F*&k You factor.
Just say no to luxury.
Say no to what passes as luxury: noisy, shiny, cr*p.
All about the badge.
Recently I sat in a Merc C class, albeit a used 2012 W204 model. The interior felt like a Ford Fiesta. I don’t know if that is a negative for the Merc or a positive for the Ford.
Compared to a similar vintage Jag XF (yes it is a segment up as a bigger car, but the used prices were similar) which made starting it an event – the screen booting up, the rising of the automatic gearbox dial. Felt special.
I’d say though that the popularity of the likes of the Mercedes A class, BMW 1 series and Audi A1/A3 (in Europe at least) are due to the badge. The latter shares platforms, engines and technology with VWs, Skodas and SEATs (the latter two being VWs sub-premium brands).
No different to people buying an iPhone/iPad over an Android device, or designer clothes, luxury perfume etc. Marketing and branding.
Lots of topic drift here.
Assuming a decent chassis, drive train and suspension, luxury is interior trim plus soundproofing.
That can be added fairly cheaply so you see manufacturers like Hyundai and Chrysler adding content on that front for ordinary cars.
In an earlier time, luxury meant also long-term durability. If anything, the popularity of leasing and the overall propensity of the well to do to trade cars fairly frequently has detracted from that.
If we had to summarize in as few words as possible what buyers are considering I’d think it comes down to:
#1 is it fun to drive?
#2 is it comfortable/convenient?
#3 what will other people think about me as a result of me owning/driving this car?
The luxury brands gave up on #1 in order to pursue #3 where they calculated there are far more profits. Everyone can do #2 and the attributes that make a car comfortable/convenient are largely a commodity. Apple Carplay and Android Auto are busy making the infotainment features a commodity right now and thus I fully agree with the articles premise — luxury brands are in for a tough ride in the coming years. Not only does a Honda Civic Touring have every gadget that my 328 has but it rides great, handles well, is just as comfortable, and is the same size too! Is the 328 a better car? Absolutely. Is it 25k better? Not even close. Therein lies the problem. Now enter Hyundai…sorry, Genesis who is about to ship the G80 Sport that’s every bit as good as a 535i for 15k less. Good luck BMW & Audi – you will need it.
Along with premium technology creeping into mainstream cars, we are unfortunately seeing some of the more mediocre features of those cars creep upmarket, engines being the most glaring. Now a Mercedes E class sounds and feels similar to a Honda Civic under acceleration (both have similar 0-60 times and turbocharged 4 cylinders, with the Honda actually garnering more consistent praise for its NVH than the Benz). Instead of their previous reputations for their various interpretations of fantastic chassis engineering, your standard BMWs, Audis, and Benzes have all become numb, soft and bloated. I had a F10 528i as a rental the day after a Toyota Camry, and my comment was the BMW was the nicest trimline of the Camry. It really felt like a slightly smoother and quieter Camry with more luxurious trimmings.
Now, I think luxury is defined by brand and service. You market a brand image to people, and they buy that car to express that image. You also differentiate yourself from the mass market offerings by the perks. Longer warranties, scheduled maintenance, valet pickup and drop offs for maintenance, concierge and apps, loaner cars, service departments with resort amenities, etc. You’re not buying a car, you’re buying an ownership experience.
The only thing about luxury I think most can agree on is that nowadays it only needs to last 4 years: 3 for the lease and 1 as a comfortable time to find the first sucker who actually buys it.
Luxury = proof that you are richer than other people. In a way, lack of reliability can be seen as a feature of luxury, because if you are not rich, you couldn’t have kept that unreliable car running.
It’s useful to attract gold diggers and more useful when you actually use the gold diggers for free. For example, if you drive that $200k car to a certain event, and get to pick up a lady, you can fxxx her for free. But if you had driven a $20k economy car, it’s not so easy to pick up a lady. You might end up spending more cash buying drinks and gifts to have a chance to get laid.
First, luxury is about a very well engineered platform – body/chassis stiffness, sophisticated suspension engineering/tuning that can provide a solid basis for the second key element.
Second, luxury is about the availability of choices, and the Germans do it the best. For example, look at any BMW – which typically start with a very nice 2 liter four, but also the option of a wonderful 3 liter six (in several states of tune), and in upper models also a super powerful V-8 or even V-12. Choice of sporty rear drive or 4 wheel drive on virtually all models, excellent base seat but also options for sporty bolstered or super adjustable comfort seats in a variety of materials and colors. Comfort oriented suspension/steering tends to be standard, but you can get stiffer sports versions or adjustable versions as options. There are also a wide variety of trim, wheel, and color packages for the exterior. You just don’t get those sorts of appearance, performance, and mechanical choices on the mass-market brands.
No, you are talking about engineering, not luxury. They are two very different words for good reasons.
Luxury means not having to think about things. Quiet, reliable, comfortable – and knowing you have the best of these.
Car journalists have been on a multi-decade mission to ruin luxury with sporting – an entirely different category. So now you have 500hp sport sedans running around weighing an extra half-ton to fit all their wood and leather in there and going through heroic feats to make them seem agile.
Luxury = sidewall
“Luxury = sidewall”
Oh, very yes!
This is a corollary to 86er’s edict that luxury = space: the space between wheel rim and road occupied by squooshy, cushy, contained air.
While nobody will dispute that certain cars can justify their price in terms of equipment, performance, etc, I think that cars in the sweet spot of the market midsize crossovers, sedans, you are really paying the extra money just so people know you paid the extra money when it comes to luxury marks.
Particularly when it comes to German brands and their high volume models, though they may in fact have more engineering, more performance, the majority of people who buy them would probably pay an extra 20 grand for a Camry if it had a roundel or three pointed star prominently displayed for all to see. CLA is perfect example, people will pay more to feel like a baller and feel good about it even if they are getting ripped off in terms of actual content, form, function.
Some of the volume models from non luxury brands, when fully loaded, have so much content, style, power that the law of diminishing returns begins to apply to move to a luxury mark. Pay 30% more for 5-10% more car. Some people need the snob appeal, smart companies will take advantage of those customers, and those customers probably won’t mind because they get the feeling of superiority that drove their purchasing decision from the get go….regardless of reality. This applies to all sorts of products. To many consumers, some things are inherently better because they cost more.
Luxury isn’t always something that you boast about, such as gadgets or features. Luxury is sometimes transmitted with interior material quality, textures, and the feel of latches and mechanisms. Luxury could be power, foul weather grip, handling, chassis composure. Luxury could be that amazing 12 speaker Bang & Olufsen sound system that reproduces your favorite deep bass and crisp highs for YOUR pleasure…not in any way designed to impress pedestrians on the sidewalk.
Additional thought: Luxury is also relative to the situation / buyer at hand. Someone unfamiliar with modern cars, the car market, trends, and current expectations may be easier to impress with “simple and common” stuff, like Bluetooth connectivity, a backup camera, a push-button start. Someone trading in a 2009 Avenger is going to be mighty impressed with what a base Civic has to offer.
My wife and in just bought a Civic EX w/ Honda Sensing for her highway commute.
Honestly, that car has everything that defines luxury: a comfortable well designed interior, good ride/handling, smooth shifting (CVT), well-implemented technology that’s not yet widely available, and no surprising costs so far (being nickel and dimed is a low-end experience).
So, as I see it, luxury cars cost a bit over $20k (negotiated price). Add in another couple of thousand if you like leather (my wife doesn’t).
I’m honestly at a loss to figure out what I could change about this car to make it more luxurious. Electric drive and Tesla Autopilot really are all I can think of, but thoserun at about 4x what we paid for the Civic; well bite at about 2x.
It really makes “luxury cars” seem a sad, anachronistic corruption like real fur or nazi-length leather coats in an age of high-tech, breathable outerwear for <$100, doesn't it?
I haven’t bought a luxury car yet, despite having some exposure to them.
Most of them strike me as more trouble than they’re worth.
No luxury car I’m aware of offers the only improvement I crave: tundra tires I could then run underinflated.
Perhaps you’d be happier with a Super Cub than a luxury car?
I would be!
I miss the steering wheel in my 2007 A3. Fit perfectly in my hands. That’s what luxury is, a car that FEELS good. It’s not the tech, it’s how a car makes you feel.
WRT to the Chrysler 300C, I test drove a 300C Platinum with the V8 and premium interior. Sliding behind the wheel with the hemi burbling away everything said luxury, then I reached for the rotary shifter and what should have felt like solid metal had the feel of a plastic piece from a Fisher Price toy.
74′ Vega!
Funny, my wife and I were having this same conversation over Thanksgiving, when we traveled and rented a Lincoln MKZ.
The MKZ was loaded with customizable LED ambient lighting, adjustable settings for ride and handling, Nav/SYNC, heated/cooled seats and steering wheel, heated rear seats, 18 inch wheels, power trunk, remote start, etc.
At the end of the trip however, we felt that all these “luxury” gizmos were essentially just make-up on a pig. Nothing about the car felt special. It had no presence on the road, and drove much like any other Camry or Altima. The interior materials were plasticky and felt cheap. SYNC was a nuisance more than anything else. The speedometer was hard to read at a glance.
Is this what luxury has become? Just a bunch of gizmos on an otherwise bland car?
To me a “luxury” car should feel premium in regard to materials, NVH reduction, power, and ergonomics. None of those things were present in the Lincoln.
Maybe I should have paid the extra $20 a day to get the BMW upgrade…
VoGo Luxury:
1. Not having to make a car payment
2. ‘Servicing’ means one hour/year with some oil and filters bought off Amazon
3. A car that starts every morning
4. A steering wheel you love to touch; seats you are happy to spend a day in
5. Isolation from road noise and bumps
All of which means that Dal is a genius.
I have a 2013 MB E350. I bought it used in 2014 when it had 13500 km I saved CAD $22,000 off the MSRP, but it was still $53,000. My brother bought a 2013 Nissan Maxima in 2015 for $23,000 or so. On paper, these two cars have virtually identical dimensional and performance specs, though the Benz is AWD. The Benz also has a few more bells and whistles. For example, cornering headlights, a power rear window shade, a dual sunroof, navigation, power trunk closer, plus a few other whizbang doodads.
Ignoring the extra tech, the MB is nicer to be in and to drive. The interior is much nicer. It is quieter and more composed on the road. The overall fit and finish is noticeably better.
But my brother paid half as much for 4/5ths of the same experience.
According to the old Mercedes-Benz formula, luxury is durability and never taking the cheap way out with an engineering decision. Note: not *reliability* but durability. It may cost a mint in maintenance to keep in service, but as long as you maintain it, the car will serve you forever.
A seat made of horsehair and springs and upholstered in MB-Tex will look and feel much the same at mile 400,000 as at mile 1, whereas a seat made of foam and bonded leather will long since have caved and cracked. A dashboard and door panels made with materials and attachment methods designed for the long term will give silent, solid service years after ones designed for fastest possible assembly time have collapsed into a cacaphony of squeaks, rattles and delaminations. Things that look like polished metal should in fact be made of polished metal, not plastic with a chrome finish plastic that will wear and weather away.
This is why back in the 1980s rich Americans literally used to buy a German taxi-spec Mercedes-Benz 240 D, complete with asthmatic naturally aspirated diesel and clunky 4-speed manual transmission, at a price that would have bought them more than one Ford LTD. The car registered as a status symbol to those who knew quality; like a fine watch, you knew you could hand it down in perfect working condition for generations. (Pretty sure Junior would have preferred a 320i or a 944 though.)
I’m still looking for that luxury car which lasts longer than a Toyota.
The 1980s were a long time ago.
While there are still badge-w***** who will buy/lease the cheapest luxury branded auto they can get just to get the badge, increasingly, consumers are moving to purchasing loaded or near-loaded autos with all the latest tech (including safety tech).
Which is what many buyers are ending up with well equipped mass-market branded crossovers (or premium brands like Buick and GMC).
It’s the reason why Kia launched the SX-L trim; many buyers wanted something even nicer than the SX trim (better leather, etc.).