So, Ford’s press conference earlier today took a cluster bomb approach to the act of doling out news. Are you ready for a hybrid F-150? Will Chevrolet film a commercial showing how easy it is to pierce the battery pack with a toolbox?
Never mind that for now — it’s the looming hybrid Mustang that’s the real shocker, though perhaps it shouldn’t be. We’re all pretty certain that the V6 ‘Stang is a dead pony walking (trotting?), and that 2017 will be the 3.7-liter’s last go-around. That leaves a big gap between the 2.3-liter EcoBoost and the 5.0-liter Coyote, which Ford will soon swap for a 4.8-liter unit with gobs of refinement.
Mark Fields wasn’t dishing too many details this morning, but he did make it pretty clear that the mid-range power choice in future Mustangs will be a hybrid setup with “V8 levels of power,” starting in 2020. Undoubtedly, you’ll find a four-cylinder engine married to that battery pack and electric motor.
We’re left to assume this hybrid drivetrain’s power output will come close to the current Coyote’s maximum 435 horsepower, perhaps even surpassing its 400 lb-ft of torque. An electric motor puts down maximum twist from a standstill, so a hybrid drivetrain should launch the future ‘Stang in a respectable fashion before the four takes over, leaving all the messy tire smoke and rubber residue for the eco-unfriendly to enjoy.
The question is: how does the prospect of a hybrid Mustang sound to you? Is V8-like power with stingier fuel consumption a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too proposition, or does an electrified pony strike you as sacrilege?
Would Steve McQueen drive one, or would his turtleneck curl at the sight of it? Let us know your feelings, B&B.
[Image: Ford Motor Company]
It’s the 70s all over again. 2020 Mustang GT will be an 2 ton Ecoboost 4 banger with a big turbo, hybrid torque fill, and a “V8 Soundpak”
Difference being, of course, that today’s 2.3 Ecoboost lay waste to about 95% of what passed for high performance cars in the malaise era. Hell, my Jetta 1.4T could probably destroy just about any late-’70s “muscle” car.
Really, it lays waste to many post-malaise high performance cars up to about two decades ago.
And equally bad performance?
A 1974 Mustang in no way matched the previous version’s performance. It passes for “sporty” in a day when a huge Chevy had the HP of a modern small I-4 n/a.
I don’t recall mainstream cars, particularly the Mustang, being down on power. Up on weight, yes, but also up on power, torque, and general performance *including* fuel economy coupled with amazing reliability.
So, for Mr. ItsThe70sAgain, you can drive a 1976 Aspen, then come tell us how the new Hybrid Mustang is exactly that.
We all know that electricity and performance don’t mix whatsoever. That’s why Lexus performance Hybrids never amounted to anything, and why Tesla can hardly give away slower-than-$hit-on-Sunday Model S. Especially that dog of a Ludacris mode, I hear the Chrysler Two hunert whoops it all the time. Yep, they sure aren’t breaking new performance ground with new technology, its just a 88-hp-Mercury-Comet future for all of us. So sad.
Make the hybrid version 350 hp and 350 lb ft, sounds good to me. Not so powerful that it will steal the V8s thunder but not so weak that the Ecoboost looks like a better choice.
While I’d have to wait and see it to be certain I certainly wouldn’t rule out a Hybrid ‘Stang on principle, in fact after owning hybrids I would tend to lean that way.
The powertrain is the primary draw of the Mustang for me, so the 2.3 Ecoboost isn’t very appealing and neither is a hybrid even if it is very quick. I want the sound and delivery of the V8. If gas ever returns to $5/gal I may feel differently.
Auto only? Then no. Stick, maybe.
I wonder what the take rate is for Mustangs with the V8 vs. Ecoboost.
In Europe, the V8 makes up 70% of sales. In the US, it was 52% last year, though I’ve heard since that’s dropped closer to 40% as the earlier adopters got their V8s.
Thanks for that information, I had wondered what the breakdown was in sales.
Driveability is the real trick with hybrids. Refining it to normally-aspirated V8 levels will be key.
Otherwise, I don’t see a problem. F1 has run hybrids for years.
The current Ford hybrid system is pretty refined. Since it sounds like this engine/transmission/hybrid combo will be used on a bunch of RWD based vehicles, Ford would be wise to do it right.
“The current Ford hybrid system is pretty refined.”
Well of course it is. When Toyota designs something, it’s usually done right.
Obvious troll is obvious
Coming from you that’s pretty rich. And to think you’re a ‘moderator’…
When have I been trolling around these parts?
You troll hard on the voodoo AWD.
The voodoo AWD deserves it. It is dark magic.
Looking in the mirror again?
You do know that while Toyota may offer more hybrid’s currently they are lagging behind in the actual technology, and they screwed themselves badly by not keeping the development with Ford for a hybrid system suitable for used in a pickup with a real tow rating. They just don’t have the volume in the Tacoma and Tundra to quickly amortize the cost of development, meanwhile those volumes would be a rounding error for Ford, easily made up for by offering the system in the Mustang and Expedition which certainly is on the list to get this power train.
…Well of course it is. When Toyota designs something, it’s usually done right…
Where does this nonsense come from? While the Toyota and Ford system share a lot of commonality and some shared patents, they were designed separately.
For the record, the hybrid system in my Altima is 100% Toyota, save the engine. Most of the time it works smoothly, but on occasion it starts the engine and the car shakes rather severely. So does the same model driven by a co-worker. So there is still some smoothness to work on.
As for the Mustang, I most certainly would like the instant torque that a motor can provide.
“While the Toyota and Ford system share a lot of commonality and some shared patents, they were designed separately.”
that’s the narrative. AFAIK both were working on the concept of a hybrid vehicle, Aisin had a design for a hybrid transaxle, and both Toyota and Ford bought the transaxle design from Aisin. which means, of course, that the idiots on Priuschat.com tooted about how “Ford bought their hybrid system from Toyota.”
IIRC, since then they’ve diverged even further, with Toyota having their own transaxle design, and Ford having their own (HF35.)
In about 100K of use on a Fusion Hybrid there was never any unpleasantness when the ICE was started and in a few thousand miles on the 1gen system used in the Escape no unpleasantness yet which is one of the way that Ford has outclassed Toyota in the hybrid dept.
+1, it’s much smoother than is a conventional automatic. The accelerator pedal is marvelously linear. The brake pedal is a little touchy at low speed, it takes a bit of getting used to.
The Mustang hybrid sounds like a California only model.
Instead of the hybrid why not swap out the 3.7 with the 2.7TT, throw in the new 10 speed auto and you’d have one hell of a daily driver.
If you fancy your DD to have the weight and External dimensions of an F150, with the interior space of an ashtray.
Hybrid done right has all the benefits of diesel and none of the drawbacks. Hybrid trucks is an idea for which time has come.
It all depends on if customers will accept them. I am guessing they will not…
I wouldn’t be so sure. I was equally skeptical about the popularity of the Ecoboost Mustang (especially since I did not expect Ford to deliberately hamstring the V6 model by offering it with no performance-enhancing or comfort options) but this past summer I lived for 3 months in Mustang Convertible country, otherwise known as Florida, and the breakdown of Mustang engines – according to my observations – was 25% V6, 65% Ecoboost, 10% V8, with almost all V6’es being rentals. If the Mustang-buying public was so quick in staying away from the – in my opinion, excellent – V6 in favor of a boosted I4, I don’t think they would balk at the hybrid so much.
I, personally, have long been a Mustang fan, although I first drove one this summer. With the upcoming demise of the V6 I struggle to find any more enthusiasm for the car. That was the only one I would ever consider owning. Now, they might put a 1.5l diesel in it for all I care.
Much will depend on how well the hybrid 4 captures the sound and feel of a high-torque NA V8. If it’s done well, enough buyers won’t care about cylinder count or displacement. I’m even more bullish about the hybrid F-150 – just look at how many people were surprised by the warm reception of the turbo V6s.
Many would argue hybrid and diesel are more complementary than interchangeable. Diesel for base load, electric for peak.
It’s so funny to watch Ford just drooling over the desire of getting rid of their V8s all together.
Ford desperately wants to ditch the V8 in the Mustang and F-150 and push their gas guzzling egoboost agenda instead.
And a hybrid F-150 is laughable along with a hybrid Explorer pursuit vehicle.
And here I thought Ford couldn’t get any worse after Big Al…..
Why would a hybrid pursuit vehicle be laughable? It makes a huge amount of sense. Electric motor for big torque from rest, big battery + electric heat/AC + engine stop/start saves lots of fuel during the hours police spend idling, and regenerative braking reduces cops’ considerable wear on the braking hardware. The only challenge is getting it cheap enough to buy.
I would tell you not to feed the troll, but he won’t go away even if you leave him alone.
A pursuit rated hybrid cop car is a great idea if cheap enough. Based on current Ford products, the increase shouldn’t be too drastic.
It’s not about him. It’s about hacking away at the conventional wisdom that hybrid powertrains are just useless eco-weenie crap. Anyone who’s ever driven a hybrid city bus after driving conventional diesel city buses knows better.
My wife and I own a 2006 Lexus RX400h.
Floor it and both the electric motor and ICE combine for 400 hp.
0-60mph in 6.5 seconds. Not bad for a ten year old truck.
Nope. You can’t combine the terms “Lexus RX” and “truck” in the same sentence.
Maybe GX or LX. Maybe.
It is just a fancy Toyota Highlander after all.
WA state considers it a truck, it has truck plates.
Regardless, this was our first Hybrid purchase and I am a fan.
Almost 30 mpg city, WARP power when you need it.
Congratulations on Mark promoting you to Chief Troll Identifier.
I wish. That job has an excellent salary and benefits package. Maybe next time the position comes open I’ll apply for it.
Sorry, Adam,
TTAC offshored that job to Mexico. Meet Juanito Baruto, your new Chief Troll Identifier.
That’s actually a Board position, congratulations Juanito.
One can talk engine wear too. My Prius has covered 20% of its miles traveled with the gas motor “running” 0 rpm.
“Why would a hybrid pursuit vehicle be laughable?”
Because Ford developing it means there will be many issues, police departments don’t need the extra initial costs or the increased repair costs. A police departments biggest fuel expense comes from idling. A hybrid will not change that. And the current Explorer with it’s gas guzzling 3.7 and delicate AWD comes close to $30K at fleet pricing. Police departments are not going to pay all the extra money to get a vehicle that is a compromise and, frankly, is dangerous when parked on the side of a highway.
Yeah the hybrid police vehicle’s time has come for certain. It will cut the fuel costs in half or more for some fleets. If one takes a look at the meters of the Caprices that are coming out of service from my state patrol you’ll see cars with total engine hours of 4000-4500 and in park idle hours of 2000-2500. Those hours of engine idling will be cut to 20-25% of what they were in the past as the engine shuts down while all the equipment runs off the battery pack for 10-15 minutes and then the ICE comes online and replenishes it in 2-3 min. The reduction in fuel use will be even more dramatic in vehicles used in City forces as they do a lot of idling at stop lights in addition to the idling while directing traffic, writing tickets ect. Add in the reality that most agencies don’t pick their cars based on pursuit performance, for example my county sheriff and the state patrol don’t order the EcoBoost Utilities and the V6 version of the Charger is very popular with many of the agencies that use those. So it not being capable of 150mph won’t deter many agencies.
Then there is the big reduction in the cost of brake replacement and oil changes.
The F150 hybrid will also be a big hit, if for no other reason than all of the fleets. They too will see a big reduction in fuel usage and the ability of it to be used as a stationary power source that will be cheaper and easier than a separate generator or air compressor will be a huge draw for trades and many gov’t applications. Why leave that F150 idling all day long to power that flashing arrow. Instead it will run for 10-15 minutes out of every hour.
As far as the cost goes it won’t be that much. If they stick with a version of the eCVT the trans portion is going to be cheaper than a 10sp conventional auto box and the sheer volume will force the amortizations costs to new lows. They already don’t charge a premium for the Hybrid power train on the MKZ so the cost at even at that low of a voulme can’t be that large. So tack another $1~2k on the price and everyone will come out ahead with many of the high cycle fleet operators recouping that cost in 1 or 2 years.
Scoutdude – hybridization of large utility vehicles makes much more sense than catering to image conscious save the planet types or penny pincher econobox clients. Trucks and police vehicles are hard on fuel and fleet vehicles tend to sit idling away for a large portion of their duty cycle. Stop and go is also where a hybrid would shine. Batteries would take over for a lot of the stop and go cycle.
I’d seriously consider a hybrid pickup over a small diesel engine option. I could run on batteries to and from work or puttering around town and have ICE for long trips or heavy demand. Diesel engines would tend to fair worse idling and stop and go where the engine isn’t really running warm enough to be efficient.
@ Big Al ford isn’t going to reveal how much they spent of development but that isn’t relevant. They are not going to revel the pricing of the option until nearer the release date.
In this case there are no subsidies or tax breaks involved. There was a tax break for buyers of the early hybrids but that sunset a long time ago.
Personally, I’d be standing in line to purchase an F-150 Platinum or a revamped Lincoln Mark LT hybrid.
Give me Coyote power when I need it and I’m in.
EBFlex,
I’m not anti-Ford. I’m more anti-Ford fan (some)and anti-protectionist.
I’ve only read down the thread to this point and I have yet to read regarding hybrid Mustang pricing or again how much this venture has cost the taxpayer. What is the true cost of this vehicle.
I don’t want some Ford fan tell me this hybid system will be shared with other RWD platforms etc spreading costs. What is the cost?
If TTAC is The Truth About Cars why hasn’t TTAC actually found out the true cost to the consumer of these “green vehicles?
Or even find out the true cost to the taxpayer/consumer of tech barriers, regulations, import tariffs, etc.
Simple issues like the protection of US tyre manufacturers is reputed to have cost nearly $1 million per job saved from Chinese tyre imports.
I do support changes, but, if changes needs to be subsidised then the consumer is not ready to receive them.
The technology is not cost effective.
Not true, BAFO. It depends on your commute. My trip is pretty much tailor made for a hybrid powertrain. I get 35-37 mpg out of my hybrid Altima. That is 10 mpg better than the 4 cylinder gas version. At 140K miles I have long since paid back the hybrid “penalty”
golden2husky,
I don’t or have never disputed any, or most performance data (only EcoBoost). Or the illogical use of aluminium in what is essentially a motorised wheelbarrow.
I don’t dispute how an EV or hybrid is better suited to your particular needs. There still are alternatives for you, ie, diesel which might offer better FE. But that is your lifestyle choice.
I do have a strong dislike regarding the use of other hard working peoples’ money heavily subsidising what is essentially a lifestyle choice.
As for batteries, lithium bromate and ores have nearly quadrupled in price since January 2016. This is fantastic for Australia as we are the largest exporter of lithium ore. But as I’ve mentioned 70% of battery cost is the materials.
With this in mind and the expansion of domestic and industrial battery requirements this industry will need to be subsdised for the foreseeable future.
Also, advances in battery storage capacity is flatlining.
I have nothing against EVs and hybrids, only handouts and subsidies propping them.
I hear and read the pro clean energy guys talking how cheap and competive solar and battery storage has become.
The fact is it this energy is still more expensive than domestic/residential retail electrical energy prices. I don’t think it will ever be competitive with wholesale prices.
So, again who wears the brunt of this? The homeowner, not big business as they pay marginally more for electricity than wholesale costs.
In the end the little guy is getting screwed.
There is no hybrid subsidy (how many times must you be told this?), and the last dozen comments have just laid out why it makes economic sense.
HotPotato,
There is more to handouts and subsidies at the dealer.
If it is at the dealer that would be a discount since it is coming from the manufacturer. A subsidy would come from the government. There is none for non PHEVs.
Hmm ….. I really do think much money is handed out.
There is much indirect incentives. Even if I buy an Elon Melon GigaBattery those who live in Nevada have payed a price.
Right throughout the green industry there is money going for R&D to sweet deals from States and counties to the Feds.
The reality is what ever sweetners that are dished out means someone must pay more somewhere else to recoup the loss.
Why should a person/industry that is viable be taxed or forced to pay more to prop up unviable industry?
Not sure how Elon Musk and the gigafactory relate to Ford hybrids
Can it be a 3.5TT or 2.7TT Hybrid? Because if so, I may take the hybrid.
I’m conflicted because I feel like the reason to buy the Mustang is V8 and manual transmission. So…how about a Lincoln coupe instead?
How about just the 2.7TT minus the hybrid system and all it’s extra weight? No one wants an obese sports car.
I think a Lincoln coupe with the 3.0TT and 10 speed transmission is a good plan.
The Lincoln coupe is a good plan I think. Toss a cougar badge on it and I’m in, though I am probably in a minority. A Mark IX badge wouldn’t be crazy though. I mean the Mark VII shared the Fox platform with the Mustang of the time. Dare I hope for a Bill Blass version?
The hybrid Fusion weighs 192 lbs more than does the conventional one. The GT automatic Mustang weighs 198 lbs more than does the Ecoboost automatic.
I thought the 2.7 was actually heavier than the 3.5 due to the CGI block. That would be the original ecoboost 3.5…I don’t know about the one rolling out now.
Will the hybrid be available with a manual transmission? I expect not.
If your plan for the car is to use it as a daily driver in all kinds of weather and dispose of it after a few years, any of the power trains will do. If it’s the Mustang you always wanted, but couldn’t justify until now, and you intend to take very good care of it, both cosmetically and mechanically, and keep it until it becomes collectible, you want the V8 and, most likely, a manual transmission.
It’s not unheard of to have a manual-shift hybrid: the Insight (first-gen) and CR-Z could be so equipped.
Now you’re right, it isn’t at all likely.
yeah, but (the “yabbuts” are out in force today) the IMA design Honda used was barely one step above a “mild” hybrid like the old GM “eAssist.”
Unfortunately I think a MT version has a less than zero chance of seeing the light of day. The F150 Hybrid has be an automatic and that is the only reason that they are going to offer it in a Mustang.
Put the electric motors on the front wheels to give it all wheel drive. 300hp at the back wheels, 150 at the front.
Pass – unsprung weight isn’t cool besides Mustangs are just fine with the power going to rear. Miata owners shouldn’t be the only ones have that sort of fun.
Ford has a mighty fine AWD car in the form of the Focus RS, be a shame to steal its thunder anyways.
Anyone who read Bark’s Boss 302 articles knows the only way to go is manual & V8.
The crucial ingredient is the manual. To the extent that stripper Civic > LaFerrari.
Ummm, I’m gonna have to say no on that one or any other attempt to say the civic is in any way better than a LeFerrari. Maybe per consumer reports but that would be it.
I’d only buy a hybrid if it improved on the power and torque of the top engine (V8). Performance is the issue, just look at LMP1 WEC race cars for the direction performance cars should be going. Unfortunately Ford has a different idea of what customers want.
Correct or not, most of Ford’s data suggest the majority of Mustang buyers don’t buy their pony primarily to endurance race.
Hide the gas motor’s behavior behind the electric drivetrain, and it could be a hoot. Nothing wrong with a Mustang responding to the throttle the same way a Tesla does. No range anxiety or charger location anxiety would be a bonus .
I’d rather have a 6.2L car and just pay to put gasoline in it.
How is there a big power gap between the I4 turbo and the V8? My understanding was that the turbo was with 10-15 hp/lb-ft with the optional kit Ford now sells for it.
It’s 100 HP even with the kit. Torque is a lot closer (10 like you mentioned).
Thanks, Adam. 435hp works for me. I’m not sure I could use more than that in a DD.
A Mustang without a V8 is like soft-core porn. What’s the point?
.
.
So your wife can enjoy it with you. I’ll let the B&B figure out if I’m talking about the porn or the Mustang.
You get out of it what you put into it ;)
So how much weight would this hybrid system add to an already chunky car like the Stang? I understand American manufacturers don’t concern themselves with handling prowess, but I can see it adding another 300-500 lbs.
Mustang can’t (or shouldn’t be) everything to everyone. You already have to spend $50K to get one that can sorta-kinda make it’s way around a corner. The real good ones are out of most’s reach, and that’s a damn shame. Highway-pullers will go for the V8 every time. I don’t get it at all, but to each his own I guess.
I can see the use for such a system in a truck, but a Mustang? I am not even a big Mustang fan and this hurts my heart.
Hmmm… Camaro own… naw you own a Porsche don’t ya?
55k OE model goes around corners plenty fine with no real aftermarket support needed.
The lesser cars can do pretty good as well. I think Ford intentionally leaves them a bit soft to bone up its aftermarket parts biz as well as tossing a little bit of that bone to the aftermarket.
It is a sad day for me to hear from an owner that it takes a $55K Mustang to get around a corner. I am not knocking your choice in vehicles, as I think the Mustang is a fine car for what it is.
Ford leaves the lesser versions softer for the older buyers IMO because that’s all I see driving them for the most part. It does have good aftermarket support for the enthusiast types.
I am not trying to throw stones, as I have had a Subaru STI infection that I haven’t been able to shake for over ten years now. I suffer plenty dude.
Prior to the GT350 I had a 2015 GT PP car and it really liked to rotate an turn as well. It was just too softly sprung even in Performance Pack trim with conventional dampers. However the car really liked to snake around corners and was night and day compared to the previous S-197 cars which pretty much put the SN95/New Edge and Fox cars firmly back into the stone age by comparison (stock for stock).
Hopefully Ford has addressed this with the so called “performance pack II” which I’m hoping are essentially take off parts from the GT350 when it comes to springs, bars and dampers (both conventional and Magne-Ride)and better summer tires than the current performance pack with its so-so suspension tuning (is all export stuff IIRC) and craptacular Pirellis.
The Mustang has to move away from the V8 for one simple reason: the market for V8 Mustangs is comprised mostly of Baby Boomers, and they are nearing the end of their car-buying years.
It will be interesting to see if they can connect with younger buyers. The sports coupe market is tiny, most makes have abandoned it. Will they make it into a specialty car, like the Miata, or will they make it more family-friendly?
The V8 cars connect with younger people just fine. Boomers aren’t the only guys buying them – same with the Camaro.
This is anecdotal but based on what I see at most Cars & Coffee, Mustang car shows and other more illicit gatherings there are plenty of people in the 20-40 year range with V8 powered cars not to mention a multitude of YouTube Mustang reviews.
Hell on one of GT350 haunts there was a boomer incredulously asking how so many young guys are riding around in a GT350.
Same with the Camaro and to a lesser extent the Corvette.
More than anything I think repressed wages have contributed to the decline of the sporty coupe and sports car market since they just aren’t that practical and you have more performance oriented vehicles on the market that are more practical when it comes to swinging a mortgage and car payment.
Raph,
It’s not the same connection overall. Most enthusiasts born after the Baby Boom ended are just as happy with a V6 (GTR) or flat 6, or blown 4, provided that the performance is there.
Baby Boomers always want the V8, even if it’s slower, handles worse, and uses more gas.
I still see many Gen X guys into V8’s, the Millennial crowd is more import from my own experience since their boomer progenitors abandoned domestics after those crazy college days till later on in life when they wanted to relive the glory years.
My millennial opinion: Ford should ONLY sell the V8 :D
Some cars that’s just how it works. V8 or nothing or it isn’t a Mustang. Sorry turbo 4’s and hybrids don’t cut it here.
8 batteries arranged in a V shape and some vintage open pipe samples though the speakers. Should fool most PlayStation racers….
The Mustang was always more about effortless good looks than outright performance. That’s something that Ford maybe lost with the final Fox-bodies (’94-’04), but it has been quite the…ahem, Focus…since then.
Plenty of customers want the looks without all of the speed. In my experience, even the EcoBoost Mustang doesn’t get great fuel economy, so there’s room for one that does. Besides, a hybrid Mustang could showcase some new performance potential.
Kyree S. Williams – purists may beg to differ but I’d have to agree with you. Fire breathing Mustangs have always been the exception not the rule.
Since the current Mustang hit the market, I’ve been more enthralled with the NA V6 stick shift car than the 5.0 or EB. Part of that is due to the fact that in my part of the world 40 kph over the speed limit means huge fines and automatic impound. My kids are approaching driving age and a NA V6 is more than adequate for them.
With the exception of the SVT cars no fox based Mustang was built for outright performance. The S-197 and S550 cars wipe the floor with the fox cars with much more performance oriented features baked in.
Really the fox-based cars only real redeeming feature is that they are lighter and thanks to 70’s era cost-cutting engineering tend to be high on the fun factor since approaching the limit of performance happens at much lower speeds. Well right up until a fox car goes careening off the road and smacks into a sapling and rips open like soggy toilet paper.
Then again like “sports car” I think that people have lost sight of what the pony car formula really consists of. Pony cars are about affordable style with outright performance coming in second.
GM muddled that a bit with the Camaro since it’s always been marketed as a more performance oriented model (which worked here and there occasionally).
In any event I suppose its an increasing level of refinement that helps to dilute that performance image. The SN95/New Edge cars still had an analog throttle and primitive torque management.
I have a buddy with a Terminator and the throttle response is so immediate on that car. Even when I had my GT500 with all the extra power that car had (and I would easily pull on my buddy’s Terminator) it felt lazy compared to the Cobra (and the GT500 was a 10 second capable car).
Oh, I just mean that those last Fox-bodies were neither pretty nor built for performance. The other Mustangs, even the Mustang II, to an extent, were fashionable.
The ’99-’04 Mustangs were the last of the contemporary Mustangs, before retro styling was thought to be what everyone wanted. Of course the ’03-’04 “Termi” Cobra Mustangs offer the best looks and performance of the generation, and Foxes.
Seriously, the unmistakable compressor whine, 450/450 hp/tq with just a pulley and tune, forged internals DOHC, 6-speed Tremec forced?
Why can’t we have both? My vote is for a V8 hybrid. As someone else wrote, electric motor(s) on the front wheels, V8 power to the back. Combined power could easily be in excess of 600hp with better fuel economy than a standalone V8 in normal driving. Although the battery pack may need to be at the back for better weight distribution given that there will already be a heavy V8 at the front.
Because Ford.
Why the need for a new Mustang? There are plenty of used ones out there that are half of their original list price. My 2006 GT convertible would probably command only CDN$12,500 these days but it still is a 300 HP, manual transmission ragtop – that gets driven half-a-dozen times a year, incidentally. Like Mustangs all you want but they’re not a good daily driver for some people. I drive my truck the most; my CTS-V a close second; and the Mustang is at my brother’s house, where it doesn’t get driven, either!
I’m sorry, I don’t want a 4.8. I ride round in a 2015 5.0 GT Mustang, and I don’t intend to downgrade thank you !
Some people prefer Hayabusas to Harleys.
I prefer Hayacinths to both!
<3 <3 <3
Actually, you don’t have a 5.0L. It’s 4.95L.
SmartAss, it is a 5.0, it just not a 5.00
Basic/Life Math. See Rounding Off. Much easier than calling it the “4.9573 V8”
So long as it is greater than 4.95 or less than 5.05, I’m fine with 5.0.
Previous versions of the “5.0” model had a 4.9 liter engine, which I hate.
Well it would have been confusing to truck buyers where you could get a V8 or inline 6 that both displaced 4.9 liters. As the V8 was 2 cubic inches larger (302 vs 300) it got the round up.
None of this would be an issue if we continued to measure engine displacement in cubic inches as God intended.
Speak for yourself, Big Al. If we measured in ci’s, I’d have to talk about my 122 ci (2.0-liter) diesel car, which just sounds sad.
Then again, GM did make a series of “122” engine that measured from 1.8 to 2.2-liters to power the J-body cars.
Reality Check Time : ordinary car owners could give a quantum crap about what engine they have.
I’m confident my mother ,best friend, their friends, and even my spouse would end up “phoning a friend” (aka me) if they were on a game show and got asked what their engine displacement is .
The only engine criteria Joe and Jane Public care about is that said engine moves the car , makes no strange noises and doesn’t strand the driver. A hybrid Mustang will hardly doom the brand and might even help it in some markets.
It would be interesting to do a survey of owners asked just that question. I bet it would shock the hell out of the B&B how many people out there couldn’t even tell you how many cylinders their car had, let along the actual displacement. However ask a person that owns a hybrid and if it is a hybrid they will at least be able to tell you that correctly, and follow it up with “so it gets good gas mileage”.
It seems clear that hybrid fleet vehicles – including cop cars – are a good idea. It’ll take some time for that to happen. As for hybrid Mustangs, I’m glad I got the 6-speed GT. But then I’m an old guy. Maybe the future for Mustangs will be all hybrids and eco-boost cars that make a sound like a big vacuum cleaner when they take off from a stoplight. We’ll see….
You might think about a base Mustang GT for the Ace of Base series….
As I said in the discussion about all the new hybrids, the Mustang model I would want to see is a base model with better fuel economy than any of the rest. There aren’t any affordable rwd cars that get particularly good fuel economy, so a Mustang hybrid with 200-250 hp from say the 1.6 or 2.0 4 cylinders then boosted by the hybrid to 250-300 and able to average 30-35 mpg combined would be a nice addition.
The Miata wants to have a chat with you.
And with the Ecoboost Mustang checking in at 3500lbs, any hope for decent fuel economy out of it is a pipe dream.
I love the Miata but it isn’t nearly big enough; I should’ve clarified that. The Mustang’s seats are tight, but they can be useful in a pinch, whereas they are non existent on the Miata. The Miata’s 4.6 cubic foot trunk is uselessly small. My Abarth has 9.5 cubic feet with the seats up and that’s not enough for a grocery run to Costco. It spends 99% of the time with its rear seats folded. It essentially functions for me as an extra practical two seat car with back seats available for the few times a year I actually need them. The Mustangs 13.5 cubic ft trunk is about the same as a small or midsize sedan, and nearly 3x that of the Miata, never mind having the back seat available for stuff as well as well. I really wish Mazda or Fiat would do a breadvan version of the Miata or 124 with something like my Abarths 30 cubic feet of seats folded cargo space (which I regularly use all of), or that the Toyobaru had been available with a hatchback.
As far as possible numbers, the 2.3 EB is already rated at 21/30/24. The BMW 430i is also a 3500 lb coupe, and with a six speed manual, already rated at 21/33/25. Downsizing the Mustang to the 1.6t or 2.0t and adding the hybrid components should at least make a 30-31 combined rating possible.