Yes, yes, yes. I know that most of you wouldn’t sign on the line that is dotted for a minivan, and, honestly, neither would I. It makes no sense, really, given that a large box-shaped living room on wheels is just the ticket for road-trip comfort with the family while offering enough space for shuttling hockey bags to the rink and making hardware store runs on the weekend.
Minivan Monroneys can climb uncomfortably high – witness loaded up Odysseys and Siennas which can handily crest $50,000. Is there a lot to like at the Ace of Base end of the spectrum? Let’s see.
Setting an opening bid of $27,590, the Pacifica L has all manner of safety nannies to comfort overprotective parents. Blind-spot monitoring, rear-cross traffic detection, and the like used to only show up on fancy-pants models not that long ago. Now, they are here on the base model. The L will also hammer the brakes on your behalf if you ignore its proximity claxons in reverse gear.
Chrysler’s useful and fairly smooth Uconnect is on board, offering up Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. Satellite radio is equipped, along with the expected Bluetooth and voice command features.
It doesn’t even look that bad, with a 200-esque (remember that car?) beak and winged Chrysler badge on the grille. This base model does have low-rent hubcaps and a giant black plastic maw under its chin, sadly, but the rest of it is unoffensive to this author’s eyes.
A minivan’s key trump card is its ability to swallow a family and all its detritus, a job the Pacifica performs admirably. The L foregoes the clever second-row Stow-n-Go seats but the rearmost bench performs the magic trick of flipping and folding into the floor. Your author recalls wrestling the 60+lb bench from the rear of an extended length Ford Aerostar twenty years ago. Progress is wonderful.
The foil to this argument is, of course, its aged distant cousin – the Dodge Grand Caravan SE. It’s the vehicle that FCA just can’t quit. Lined up and then hauled off death row more times than an inmate in a Hollywood movie, the Grand Caravan has surely long paid for all its tooling and you can be guaranteed that every single one makes bank for the company.
Currently listed on Dodge’s website for $22,345 including some cash on the hood, the Grandest of Caravans makes a strong case for itself packing nearly 300hp, space galore, backup camera, and all manner of power options. The fact that a grand total of two models appear when you hit Chrysler’s build-and-price tool also gives me pause.
Dodge’s Grand Caravan looks like yesterday’s leftovers next to the Pacifica, so it’s the latter which makes the Ace of Base grade.
I still won’t buy one, though. No one said I was rational.
Not every base model has aced it. The ones which have? They help make our automotive landscape a lot better. Any others you’d like to see in our series? Let us know in the comments. Naturally, feel free to eviscerate our selections.
The model above is shown with American options and is priced in Freedom Dollars. As always, your dealer will probably sell for less.
Not that it really matters on a van, but I suppose the usual AoB deciding factor is what kind of goodies do you miss out on with the base model vs the next step up?
WRT maximum van pricing, you can even get a Grand Caravan optioned up over $40K up here with the GT model, but I’ve never seen one on the road.
This geezer has owned >100 vehicles and guess what ?
Minivans , any minivan , all minivans are the only vehicles i would have if i could only have one vehicle.
Sedan like ? yep , Most pickup duty ? yep , Light tow ? sure .
Heck they even outrun most pony cars of a generation ago.
They tend to be very safe and you can even sleep in them.
At 25K$ a pop what more can you ask for ?
Agree with the above comment 100%. When selecting a vehicle based on utility/functionality the minivan is still the hand downs winner in almost every instance.
This. It is the dowdy Swiss Army knife of vehicles. We are on our third one and there will be a fourth, probably fifth as we lease them. My wife loves the minivan. Kids fit, kids stuff fits, grandparents can get in and out easily,etc. With four snow tires, we’ve yet to have a problem with snow.
I suggested VW bring a normal “mini” van here (or build one off the Atlas) to compete with Odyssey/Sienna/Pacifica on a social media post about the Tanoak. You’d have thought I’d have suggested VW bring back the 54hp diesels from some comments.
We don’t tow or camp, anything that might even whisper the requirement of AWD/4WD. For me, there’s no better family conveyance than the minivan.
Four years with our Kia, and I’m convinced that other than hauling dirt, or a motorcycle, the van does everything as well as the line of pickups I previously owned.
Plus, it’s a perfect camper for the weekends at the racetrack. Which you cannot say for a pickup, unless you actually drop a camper shell in the bed.
Oh yeah, it’s also a wonderful statement about one’s being comfortable in his masculinity.
“Oh yeah, it’s also a wonderful statement about one’s being comfortable in his masculinity.”
But if you’re not, there’s still the Pacifica S package.
Yep. I came to the same conclusion at the grand old age of 23 while piloting a new 1998 SWB Town & Country around the lot at the Chrysler store I worked at. No other vehicle fulfills 95% of a driver’s needs like a minivan.
No argument from me our 2005 town and country is a true champ. As a family long trip vehicle…………….it can’t be beat!!!
Yeah on the practicality scale you cannot touch any modern minivan. They literally do it all, and more efficiently, than any other automotive form.
Wow the old Caravan is cheap. 22k with money on the hood? That’s a seriously good bargain for a vehicle that’s been well-sorted over the generations.
I would agree with the Grand Caravan being a great value, but I would use some of that cash on the hood to buy the extended bumper-to-bumper factory warranty. I know that’s not a generally well regarded idea, but my brother has been a long-time GCV aficionado and in this case the warranty pays for itself over and over again. Transmission issues, bad solenoids, heater cores, water pumps, wiper motors…he’s experienced all these problems and, other than inconvenience, paid for none of the repairs.
My wife won’t touch the GC/T&C, because its crash engineering is obsolete:
https://youtu.be/TZC8Ykl1esE
The Pacifica well enough on this test.
“but I would use some of that cash on the hood to buy the extended bumper-to-bumper factory warranty”
You could for sure, but the Grand Caravan has lower warranty costs per vehicle than the average Toyota. I wouldn’t worry about it.
The base Pacifica has one ace in the hole versus the Grand Caravan (and Sienna). You can easily retrofit the OEM roof rails to the Pacifica for not too much money. Pop up some trim parts, bolt the rails to the mounting hard points. With the Dodge, if you don’t get the rails from the factory, I don’t think you can add them later. The roof structure is such that rails after the fact are much more difficult than with a Pacifica.
Sounds like a small thing, but a lot of base van people like to haul stuff from Lowe’s and HD, or they have bikes, kayaks, etc. Lack of roof rails means your cargo hauling options up top are seriously compromised. Standard rails, or the next best thing, the ability to easily add them, is significant.
You can add factory roof rails to the base Odyssey, by the way, but you cannot do so with the Sienna L.
There is NO WAY I would drive a mini van. Then I got one cheap (older turbo model) fixed to resell. After driving it for two weeks I didnt want to get rid of it. Such fun and so practical.
Flash forward to my latest van, a 2012 SXT. I have had over 60 cars in my life. This is the best daily driver of all. Sure I have a mid engine sports car, a diesel truck, and a R/T, etc….but I love using the Grand Caravan for a daily driver. The stow-n-go seats are great. Put on 80k miles on it the last 3 years.
And another sees the light.
At our house, I’m seriously considering selling off my Fiat 500c Abarth. As much as I love driving the car, if the weather is good I still prefer to use one of the motorcycles. If the weather is bad, the Fiat stays in the garage and I use the van. My commute is short enough that the gas mileage doesn’t matter.
An Infinitely smarter purchase than a three row crossover. The interior design is brilliant. It rides nice, handles well (for a van), has a smooth powertrain and I think it looks good. But people will spend $5k to $10k more money on a less practical SUV because they want to be trendy. Silly
Lemmings meet cliff.
Hey, it gives the manufacturers the money to make stuff that interests me. Such is capitalism.
Do these people recoup any of that 5-10k difference when they sell their vehicle after 3-4 years of ownership?
I had a Caravan GT rental last year, and it left a very favorable impression. Excellent interior room, comfort, good ride quality and perfectly competent handling, great power, very decent MPG considering the size and cargo/people room of the thing. It even had very rationally sized alloy wheels with nice fat tires. For what the real world transaction prices are for these things, I’d pickup some sort of extended warranty and enjoy. In the minuses I’ll put the stow and go seats: they’re just not that comfortable for adults for long periods of time. I’m a dyed in the wool Toyota man (and like that they make them right here in Indiana) but I would most definitely cross shop the old school FCA option if I were in the market. You can get a almost-new GC loaded up with a heated steering wheel, etc for the price of a lightly used Sienna LE.
If you needed max space/ people capacity for 25k, you’d do worse than old school Grand Caravan. But it looks really old compared to the new Pacifica inside and out. As the owner of a few minivans, style isn’t a huge deal when it comes to vehicles for me or the wife. But for many people, it is a deal breaker. The Pacifica at least looks new and sleek. The GC LOOKS like a minivan and that’s been the segments problem since the crossover became a thing. People generally buy minivans because they need them, not because they want them.
My wife is didn’t like the Pacifica. But we aren’t big fans of our Sienna SE right now either. It’s little stuff in this segment and I think that Honda does a great job with the Odyssey on the little stuff, better than Toyota. Maybe an all-new Sienna will change that, but I’m fairly certain another Odyssey will be in our garage.
As for the AOB, I just can’t drive a basic vehicle, but that’s me. We had an Odyssey LX once as a loaner while ours was in the shop. I don’t need Touring or Touring Elite stuff, but what I’d gotten used to in the EX-L was sorely missed even for a day or two. I guess if I didn’t know what I was missing and wanted the lowest price, it would be OK. But I have my level of comfort and so does the wife. Base model isn’t it.
Another old guy here. I have driven Dodge Grand Caravans or regular sized Caravans as company vehicles for the last 30 years ( a new one every 2 years with 80,000 to 100,000 miles on them when returned). They all with the exception of a couple of the early ones have been good vehicles with only maintainece items needed. I just traded in a 2015 Ford Explorer because I learned of the potential engine failure on the 3.5 v6 caused by the water pump being enclosed in the oil passage way. I just purchased a 2018 Pacifica Touring L Plus and I have to say that this is a completely different and very much improved vehicle from the Caravans.
We own an aging 2007 Honda Odyssey and we love it. Dead reliable, carries anything we throw in it, and it’s still quick enough to merge with traffic. We’ve talked about replacing it with an SUV but none match the flexibility, fuel economy, size when compared to a van. A Suburban has the cargo space and interior room for 3 kids but fuel economy is poor and it won’t fit in my garage. A non-starter for my wife. Tahoes have virtually no cargo space with the 3rd row up and still offer poor fuel economy. The Enclave/Traverse/Acadia is better but still can’t swallow the amount of crap we take on a road trip.
Honestly, the best value in minivans right now is not the Pacifica L but a CPO Kia Sedona LX. Around my area you can snatch one with leather heated seats, power sliding doors, and a whole host of goodies for under $20K. It still has a great warranty and they are pretty reliable. This may be my next van.
Keep in mind that the third generation Sedona has non-removable second row seats. That may affect your needs. I’m overjoyed with my second generation model, but absolutely need the ability to take it down to the front seats only, so the current model is out of consideration. Which is a pity, because I really like it, and have good dealer support.
I still would want (non-perforated) leather and heated front seats.
If the Pacifica was available with AWD it would make a little bit more of a compelling place for itself over the Caravan (Caravan is selling on price.)
How humongous do these grotesque contraptions have to get before we stop referring to them as minivans?
More humongous than a Transit, E-Series, Express, ProMaster, NV, or Sprinter?
As vans go, this one’s great-looking – definitely better looking than the Odyssey, which looks like some kind of bizarre hearse from Ming the Merciless’ planet. Good choice.
Definitely on my short list for when my Kia Sedona comes due for trade-in time. Which will be in about 25,000 miles. And considering I use the van for all our long haul traveling, that won’t take too long.
70K on mine (2015 Sedona LX). NO issues besides the (base cloth) seats stain VERY easily (kids and dogs bring MOST of that on).
I HAVE noticed a LOT of Pacificas though around SW Florida and am getting to really like the style.
My folks, who’d jumped from Volkswagens in the 70s to Detroit Iron in the 80s and 90s, decided to make the jump to Hondas in the 00s, starting with an ’04 Accord and a ’10 CR-V. They still has the Accord, which has been perfect but the CR-V was a disappointment for them in comfort, performance, and efficiency. With three granddaughters, they decided to acquire a low-trim Odyssey, and they LOVE it. It pulls better, rides better, sips gas (relatively) and obviously holds a lot more people and things, and after two relatively standard winters they haven’t missed the one thing the CR-V had going for it: the AWD.
By God does it look lame, though.
This looks like a bargain… if you can even find a base model in inventory anywhere. Looking over the Chrysler site, it’s hard to see what else one loses with this vs. the higher level models or what one gets in place of the stow and go seats. Are the base buckets more comfortable than the S&G versions? That would be a plus in my book since I’d rarely, if ever, remove the second row. Is it a bench that seats three across?
What about the power sliding doors? I presume those would be missing, but that’s really small inconvenience and I usually find them (and the power tailgates) annoyingly slow.
I did note that the entertainment screen is same as the next two levels up, which is nice. That’s usually a clear sign that you’ve cheaped out. There are even a wide array of colors available on the base model. This looks like a great buy for a family truckster.
LX gets you alloys+trim, a display between the gauges, stop/start, power driver’s seat, 3-zone climate control, and the stow n go seats.
Touring Plus gets you auto headlights, some chrome, full keyless entry+ignition, remote start, power rear doors + liftgate, automatic climate control, and an extra USB port.
Touring L gets you power passenger seat, heated seats in front, leather, more USB, and sunshades for the back. Touring L is also lowest trim where you can add upgraded sound or the radar cruise control packages.
The Touring L Plus and Limited add even more tech/luxury features.
I personally would go for the LX over the L, since I don’t see much point in getting a FCA van without Stow N Go.
+1 on Stow’n Go. It is to other minivans, what a proper “Stow’n Go” convertible top is to T-tops.
With Toyota and Honda on a tear to add “Sensing” (radar cruise, Lane keep assist, traffic sign reader, auto-brake and other stuff) like stuff to every trim of every vehicle above bicycle; the rest need to quit the sleazeballery of reserving the tech for 20 inch rimmed pimpmobiles as well. It’s rapidly becoming unbecoming.
The L gets you a bench that’s slightly contoured for the outside passengers. I haven’t sat in it but it looks no more comfortable than the Stow ‘N’ Go seats.
On the other hand, the non-Stow ‘N’ Go option at the other end of the range, the Hybrid, has fantastic buckets in the second row that are much more comfortable than Stow ‘N’ Go.
The stow-n-go seats are… well, they’re great if you’ve got little kids who are in booster seats or child seats or whatnot where the (lack of) padding doesn’t become a factor.
If you’re an adult, they’re not great.
I’ve got an Odyssey and I WISH the seats were as easy as the GC/Pac to deal with, but if I’m actually taking grown-up people on a road trip (with the kids relegated to the 3rd row) I’m thankful for the actual seatyness of them.
I have always adored minivan rentals over the years, especially once Stow-n-Go debuted in 2005. In 2017 I quit fighting the urge and bought a lovely Pacifica Touring L-Plus. It quickly became my favorite car, ever. We hauled people, antiques, landscape materials, beach gear, dogs – all in relaxed comfort. Sadly, I lost the car in Hurricane Harvey floods, and I was impatient with ordering an exact replacement minivan. So, I went with a 2018 Odyssey Touring. The Honda is great, if a bit odd-looking. But I miss Chrysler’s unique Stow-n-Go flexibility. I will likely return to another new Pacifica when the model gets its mid-cycle refresh – I am guessing the 2020 model year.
I’m noticing something in this thread. It appears that once you’ve hit a certain age (and lord knows I’m there) the impression you project with the vehicle you drive becomes a heckuva lot less important. Count me in the column that says “the minivan is the most practical alternative to moving people and stuff on the planet.” If I went Mopar, it’d have to have Stow ‘n Go.
I personally think a Sienna AWD in the most base trim available is looking pretty darned attractive.
Truth, regarding age and vehicle perceptions. I always needed and enjoyed a minivan, but felt that the image held me hostage. So I kept up appearances by driving nice cars, all of which were marginally compatible with my needs. When I made my Pacifica purchase (at age 43) I still got a lot of roar and “OMG!” from friends. But there is no greater satisfaction than knowing you’ve done the right thing, regardless of peripheral opinions. It takes some life experience to reap that personal, internal reward.
I’m in my early 30s and it’s hard not to love the Pacifica. I had one as a company car for a while and became quite proud of it. At the time it was right when they first came out, and people would ask about it all the time, look inside and love it. They’d say, “This is a really cool SUV”.
When I’d tell them it was techically a minivan, they’d either refuse to believe it out of cognitive dissonance, or get all turned off. It was pretty funny.
This Ace of Base is no Ace without Stow-N-Go, which is at least half of the reason to buy a Chrysler minivan in the first place. One level up makes much more sense.
The only good reason to go without it is the Hybrid. With the Hybrid, you get captain’s chairs that are actually comfy for adults, rather than the penalty bench, and you get to drive on battery for the first 30 miles.
**
Any minivan is definitely fighting The Stigma among most of the female half of the population and a good chunk of the male half too. My wife compared it to “wearing sweats to work,” and the only reason I could get her to look at a van at all was the plug-in capability of the Pacifica Hybrid. But now, even though she’s a big fan of plug-in cars, she tells me she’s glad we didn’t get the van. And the reasons are all bound up in social psychology.
Maybe gen Z, growing up in CUVs, will Make Minivans Great Again. Among everyone from boomers to millennials, they’re done.
My wife is anti-van but since she’s 34 maybe she’ll grow out of it. ;-)
When my wife was 34 we’d just bought a Chevy Astro AWD. It was an ex Rose Cup vehicle Chevy had ordered, so “options, why yes” were reflected in the two-page window sticker. The price was right, and we’d just discovered that our third was on her way. It filled a need- but the first of six Suburbans took it’s place in our garage a little over a year later.
Nowadays, the kids are all grown, and the same wife cheerfully drives a Camry (her choice).
Disagree with the OP’s premise here.
If you have three kids thena minivan is utterly brilliant, that I agree with, but don’t penny pinch with it. Part of it’s appeal is comfort and “living room on wheels”, don’t skip, tick the stupid boxes and enjoy.
My thoughts exactly. If I’ve got to drive a living room around, I want it to be comfortable and not just a box on wheels. We all obviously have different ideas of comfort and what makes us happy and the pocketbooks to make it happen.
Our 2014 EX-L Odyssey was equipped in what the wife and I deem minimal for our money and use. Leather, moonroof,heated seats plus powered doors and hatch. Only thing we wanted toward the end of the lease was a built-in DVD player. We had one that attached to the seat backs in the Odyssey, but it was such a maze of wires that the clutter was obnoxious. We only used it on long trips, but still it was a hassle. So, that was the only thing we now add to our list. Well worth the cost keeping the boys entertained (one gets motion sick with his head down reading or playing with a tablet)
Leather with kids is easier and it’s not like anything I can afford has Connolly hides in it. Spills, sticky things, etc. just wipe off. Toyota chose perforated leather in the SE to keep the “sporty” image. Still easier than cloth, but perforated with kids is a PITA.
I have driven minivans a few times and I cannot say I share the view that they are the best. The ones I have tried have been pretty inferior as far as driving experience goes. I have been interested in the manual transmission Mazda5 for years. Having test driven its two generations several times, I can easily scratch it off my wish list. The Grand Caravan pre-2008 was pretty good but the later model felt pretty bulky and awkward to drive. The Mercedes R-klasse I have tried several times, with different engines, since that is the only minivan my wife likes. It really did not feel like driving a Mercedes. Interestingly, both the Sprinter and the Metris did feel like a Mercedes and were a pleasure to drive. Every other minivan I have tried left me very disappointed. In comparison, the FWD Chevy Traverse I leased for two years was amazing to drive, with awesome suspension damping and excellent steering feel, very European. I wish it came with manual transmission, I would have been all over that model.
I found several of these Pacifica L’s on cars.com advertised for around $20k to and close to the Ace of Base (gotta love the “bait ‘n switcher” in New Jersey advertising Chrysler vans for less than $19k but with a significantly lesser discount on his website). All seem to come with a $445 rear a/c package but nothing else that violates the Ace of Base rules. There’s a copper pearlcoat van at Jake Sweeney’s (WHAT A GUY!) with Corey’s name on it. So there seem to actually be several “strippers” out there in the wild.
1st of all…
“…It makes no sense, really, given that a large box-shaped living room on wheels is just the ticket…”
It makes perfect sense & the most sense for consumers who know they will need all this maximum space. There’s plenty of space for everything at any given time. With descent fuel ratings & a stereo.
If your most pressing concern is maximum space & being able to move loads of people & their stuff in the same vehicle while not paying $50k for a huge BoF gas guzzler, a minivan IS the ticket.
Theres no denying the practicality of a minivan. That said, I view them as a necessary evil, just something to deal with a problem…kinda like a dishwasher or a wheelchair.
I cant see dropping top dollar on one of these rolling embarassments. I mean if you have a horde of kids to schlepp around, why not buy a clean well maintained one off an old lady for a few grand? Itll do the job. Save your money for something you really want and drive that on weekends, date nights, etc.
And that’s why the GC outsells the Pacifica. It’s all about the utility, you’re never going to impress anyone with any minivan so why not save the dollars for things that actually matter, like motorcycles and electric guitars and paying for all those activites you have to drive your kids to in the minivan.
We’ve started casually shopping for minivan #3, it’ll be a used GC
The 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan (the generation before the mini-UPS truck 2008 model) was the pinnacle of Grand Caravans. The 2008+ models were a step backwards in quality.
We owned two, both driven mostly by my wife. The transmissions would randomly forget what gear they were in and would shift very abruptly and hunt often. You could not back up any sort of incline without shaking your fillings out of your teeth. The brakes would be adequate for a Neon but not a 2 ton minivan. The first one (an 08) needed a transmission rebuild before it hit 50k. The second one burned a quart of oil per 1000 miles. All of this was “normal” according to my local Dodge dealers, even though van #2 was covered under the “lifetime” powertrain warranty that they don’t offer anymore.
I thought the ’08 junkpile was a fluke, and traded it on a ’10 with more features, but it also was a junkpile. The ’08 had the rebuilt trans but slightly more reliable 3.8 pushrod motor, with body flex that would make a cereal box look herculean.
The ’10 had the SOHC 4.0 that was a stroked version of the old SOHC 3.5 V6 Chrysler used in every car in the 90’s, but it was the oil burner. Again, dealers said it was “normal” (even though zero qts of oil would be left in the pan after the normal 5k mile oil change interval) and all the burning oil cooked one of the cats, which triggered a CEL that wouldn’t go away.
Never again, FCA!
Welp, partially inspired by this article, I swapped out what would have been a Sportage for a Pacifica for business travel the next few days. I’m going to be making an 8 hour drive home in in tomorrow so I’ll report back with how it went. A roomy van with a Pentastar sounds a whole lot better than a compact crossover with I’m assuming the NA 2.4L (I doubt it would have been the SX) for 8 hours of midwestern highway slogging.
The Pentastar & 8 speed combo in my rental 300 gave me combined mileage of 28 mpg of very spirited driving between Vegas & Lake Havasu last week. My only complaint with the 8 speed is that the transmission software is ill-matched for a rental car because if you do not carefully modulate/feather the gas pedal for slow acceleration between 70-80 mph, the transmission kicks down several gears thinking you are wanting to pass. Chrysler transmission software (ultra drive) does a nice job of learning the driver of an owner occupied vehicle but in rental car use the software defaults to higher revs in kickdow mode.
I’ve had several minivans for the last 28 years. Currently have a 2008 Grand caravan that I got a great deal on, very happy with it w/ 115k on it. I can’t live without one being a working drummer in a band, the stow-n-go seats great idea.